It's FISA Time!
By John Amato Monday Jan 21, 2008 7:07pmGame on----It looks like the Republicans will be trying to force Harry Reid to capitulate on the FISA fight very soon. We need real leadership from the Democratic Party presidential candidates. Here's Glenn Greenwald:
It will be increasingly difficult to listen to Edwards, Obama and Clinton tout their supreme leadership attributes and their commitment to "changing the way Washington works" if they choose to sit by, more or less mute, and allow such a blatant and corrupt evisceration of the rule of law -- and such a vast and permanent expansion of the limitless surveillance state -- to occur without a fight. Any one of them, or all three, has a unique opportunity to actually demonstrate with actions, rather than pretty speeches, their commitment to the principles they claim to espouse...
Jane invites John Edwards to the dance:
John Edwards is the perfect person to lead with this message. Such an action would illustrate his genuine commitment to change and fighting vested interests in Washington, and hopefully it will channel that intense anti-immunity passion toward his campaign. He won't be able to participate in the filibuster himself, but by offering to leave the campaign trail and go back to DC with Clinton and Obama he'll be able to show leadership in challenging all Democrats to put thoughts of personal gain aside and join together in the fight to save the constitution. (email john@johnedwards.com)
John Edwards has a great opportunity here to show some leadership qualities and fight the corporate lobbyists and lawbreakers that he actively campaigns against. What say you? Obama has said he'll back a filibuster of any bill containing telecom immunity. Hillary also said she would support one as well because of her mistrust of the Bush administration. Who could blame her?
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The media would black it out, I bet. Remember, Edwards doesn't exist.
The three of them better not get together in a dirty pool and agree not to be there to vote as they did last time on the Mukasey confirmation, or anyone of them just vote present. I saw a story somewhere where 2/3s of the country do not want the telecoms granted immunity, and that includes people of both parties.
"Republicans will be trying to force Harry Reid to capitulate on the FISA fight very soon."
They won't have to try very hard. Ol' Harry and the rest of the so-called Dem leadership have been pressuring Chris Dodd to back down from his opposition to immunity for the telecoms and expansion of domestic spying. The fix (except for Sen. Dodd) is already in, as soon as they figure out a way to bring Dodd in line.
Certainly Hillary Clinton would not be averse to having those expanded powers, and I suspect Obama wouldn't fight very hard not to have them either.
Ooops, I meant to say the two of them.
Helena Montana @ 3:
To be fair, they'll pay it lip service.........maybe
I'd just like to point out that the Republicans cannot "force" Reid to capitulate here. If he does, it's because he's a bought-and-paid-for corporate lackey.
push has come to shove.........time to put up.Now we will see who is worthy.....well........as close as we can get anyway.
Wondering? When will Hillary and Obama have time to attend Senate meeting to
filerbuster when they are contineously on the campaign trail?
I don't think Senator Dodd will back down................i hope not......He can't.He has no alternative now.geeeeeeeezzzzzz......I'm gettin an uneasy feelin.
I would expect millions more to join me and email / phone directly to the three candidates IMMEDIATELY and demand their position on the FISA. And at the same time to Harry Reid.
But for the Democratic presidential hopefuls, it should be topic #1 - even BEFORE the economy and the war. The erosion of our constitution makes the other two subjects moot.
What makes any of you think that the "Progressives" Obama and Clinton would stop their neck and neck battle to do anything for the people of this country?
My email to John has been sent. He could lead this fight back to the Democratic Senators who SHOULD be fighting it.
But the question is, Will THEY Show up?
I doubt it. And there is your answer in who SHOULD be the Democratic Presidential Candidate in 2008.
Time for the candidates to put up or shut up!
BTW, why does Harry Reid always look like he's about to burst into tears?
You would hope that any candidate would pay a heavy price for not putting themselves front and center to oppose this sell out of the people, principal, and the Constitution. However, no one paid any noticable price for failing to make their "opposition" to the last attempt at pushing this travestry through more than a soundbite. Neither Hillary nor Obama felt the need to leave the campaign trail and fit for principles.
Only Dodd showed leadership, and it did nothing to improve his visibility. I fear our frontrunners will take this as an object lesson in the political insignificance of standing for the Constitution.
Unfortuanely, I don't believe Hillary or Obama are "agents of change" who will put dedication to principal above their prayers to political expediency. I would dearly love to be proved wrong.
Hillary's all rhetoric! When the time comes to filibuster, she'll do what she always does, nothing. Then she'll blame Bush for "playing politics again," and say it's just another reason to make her Prez.
She votes with her calculator, period.
I've got an idea, lets trade one megalomanic for another megalomanic. That's real change.
"Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."
-Morpheus' warning to Neo as he chose for the red pill
Isn't it interesting how the corporate crooks and their quasi-fascist cheerleaders always crap on with "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have no reason to be afraid."
But when the shoe's on the other foot...
RMac @ 10:
How true, RMac, but have you heard any of them actually discuss the erosion of our consitution? It's topic #1 for me so I have been listening and watching carefully and see and hear no evidence of it.
Harry Reid is the frickin majority leader. The repugs shouldn't be able to force him to do anything. I'm truly disappointed in the leadership he's shown in the Senate. How many times have the repugs been allowed to simply wave their hands and say filibuster and let Democratic bills be defeated. At the very least call their bluff and make all 49 of these scumbags get up and filibuster even if it takes all night. The country didn't put Democrats into the majority to capitulate to the repugs.
In the case of any telecom immunity, Bush should be called upon to make the case why immunity for past acts is necessary for the functioning of intelligence gathering going forward. They already have state secrets laws to protect classified information.
Bush, who should have been impeached a long time ago, shouldn't be allowed to hold national security as hostage in order to achieve leniency for his criminal co-conspirators in the wiretapping felonies cases. Somewhere, I think I heard that Bush himself claims that a new FISA law is necessary for national security.
FUCK bush and cheney and all their illegal and criminal acts against the
American people and the destruction of the Constitution of the United States.
"Accountability is off the table." -Hairy Peloozer
I'm seeing the perfect storm in all this shucking and jiving. Occupation of Iraq is a total washout costing billions, economy completely in the damn tank and sinking further as we speak, and the same time the media covers the Prez candidates meticulously with such awe inspiring issues as race, instead of everything else that is going on. Anyone get the feeling the left hand is in front of everyone's face, so they can't see what's happening with the right hand?
Go Chris Dodd!
Looking for leadership from congressional Democrats is like looking for a synagogue in Vatican City.
Harry Reid will do this all by himself. There's enough to blame the Republicans on but this isn't one of those issues. There are obviously a number of Democratic senators that also support the telecoms and not the regular American person on this point. These corporations aren't being 'good citizens' at all. They shut off the phone lines (as a reported story said) because the bills weren't being paid. So it's easy for them to hand over private customer information with no problem (violating contracts et al) but when they aren't 'shown the money' those lines are cut off like Paris Hilton's inheritance. Criminal and cowardly behavior. It's wrong to give them retroactive immunity. Absolutely wrong.
DavidtheDuke @ 1:
I have been saying he is a halogram with the media. I sent this to Elizabeth and John the last few days. Hopefully he will take it up and voice it over the progressive media. I think he will reach more voters that are really paying attention, like we do.
Elizabeth, again the media almost totally ignores John. In all of the debates it is like he is a halogram, he's there then he's not. The media is keeping him from reaching the people and delivering his message. I sent this message to John the other day and I want to make sure he gets it.
I think you need to go to the progresiive radio advertising. The regular MSM is not going to cover you and financing that kind of advertising will use up your campaign funds. As the Rueters article pointed out, they are afraid of you John. On progressive radio, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann and others have given you more airtime than any of the MSM. I think you will benefit much more by reaching more of the progressive voter without the negative and dismissive attitude the MSM has given you.
We love your ideas John and the corporate media does not.
if ONLY , , ,
Actually, I was on Chris Dodd's mailing list from his campaign and I received an e-mail that although he dropped out of the race, he still intends to keep his promise to filibuster the FISA amendment that includes immunity - Bring on the filibuster!
Here's the actual e-mail from the night of Iowa:
I count the past year of campaigning for the presidency as one of the most rewarding
in a career of public service.
Unfortunately, I am withdrawing from that campaign tonight.
But there is no reason to hang our heads this evening -- only the opportunity to
look towards a continuation of the work we started last January: ending the Iraq
War, restoring the Constitution, and putting a Democrat in the White House.
I know a lot of you came to this email list through a shared desire to return our
nation to one that respects the rule of law, and I want to make one thing clear to
all of you:
The fight to restore the Constitution and stop retroactive immunity does not end
with my Presidential campaign. FISA will come back in a few weeks and my pledge to
filibuster ANY bill that includes retroactive immunity remains operative.
You've been an invaluable ally in the battle, and I'll need you to stick by my side
despite tonight's caucus results.
So, one more time, thank you for all of your efforts throughout the course of this
entire Presidential campaign.
We made a real difference in shaping the debate, and we'll continue to do so in the
coming days, weeks and years.
I'll never forget you, and what we've fought for, together, over the past year.
Chris Dodd
You have as much chance of finding leadership in Harry Reid and/or Nancy Pelosi as you do finding a condom dispensing machine at Jesus Camp................
I'm in a Super Tuesday state, and it pisses me off that I won't even get a chance to vote for my Dem choice, Sen Dodd (other than a write-in). He'd be a solid choice but, nope, another "Northeast Librul", gotta write him off before a vote was ever cast. Even David Brooks lamented the lack of attention the so-called second tier guys got. The only way those guys would stand a chance would be to adopt another good idea of Dodd's: Public Financing!! Funny you don't hear HRC or BO talking about that...
don't hold your breath. . .
remember that we are about to experience their leadership capabilities. . .
I'm supporting Hillary right now.
That will change if she doesn't fight this bill.
I'll support Edwards on February 9th if he fights like hell to end this atrocity.
Obama I expect will vote present. ha ha ha ha
Tim Ed Anshabby @ 31:
David Brooks works for the Republicans.
This is why I have no enthusiasm for this endless Presidential campaign and election, none of the "top tier" candidates on either side have shown any leadership on any of the important issues. The republicans have spent all of their time proving they're the most religious, most homophobic, or most anti-illegal alien. The Democrats have spent all of their time bashing each other over stupid crap that doesn't mean a damn thing in how they would lead this country.
If the country could afford it I'd say let a Republican win so they have to clean up the mess that Bush made. Sadly though instead of cleaning it up they'd make it worse so I guess we have to figure out the best of between Clinton and Obama. Yep, after voting for Edwards in the Primary I suppose I'm going to have to choke back the bile and vote for whoever the media selects between those two semi-Dems.
Why should they? Look how much it helped Dodd. The next day all the folks who'd been so loud in saying they'd vote for him got caught up in the battle of the titans with Obama and Hillary, leaving Dodd with an almost embarrasing turn-out. I truly hope they do but as liberals we need to stop being so fickle and actually support the leaders who do care about us and our concerns. The fact that Hillary and Obama are still the front-runners makes it 100% obvious to anyone looking to get the presidency that liberals and Democrats don't support the progressive agenda with votes, only empty words endless ranting on blogs.
Unfortunately, or rather digustingly, John Edwards is being demonstrably shut-out by the media and apparently by the DNC, DLCC and what have you so any leadership he might claim on this important issue will still be downplayed or ignored. But he should still step-up for the principle and the significant practicalites. I would expect that from him more than Obama and Clinton--who should step up to the issue too.
Helena Montana @ 3:
When you say "Dem leadership," you are talking about the SENATE, not the House. The entire House leadership, Progressive and DLC both, have refused any offer of immunity this whole time.
Leader Reid, a milquetoast, is in that position because the Dem caucus in the Senate is split down the middle. That's how you get a Leahy (Judiciary Comm.) bill with NO immunity, and a Rockefeller (Intel. Comm.) bill with it. Reid is so hapless, he put both bills forward in December -- he couldn't turn down the Rockefeller/Feinstain wing.
Gross generalizations may serve simplistic worldviews, and cynicism may guide all your days with considerable justification, but if you want to work for a better political situation it doesn't pay to water down the actual political differences.
in·teg·ri·ty /ɪnˈtɛgrɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-teg-ri-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.
[Origin: 1400–50; late ME integrite < L integritās. See integer, -ity]
—Synonyms 1. rectitude, probity, virtue. See honor. slang synonym; having some balls for truth
Note: Sorrowfully lacking in American politics of the early 21st century.
If Reid has any integrity he wouldn't let it get to a fillibuster (and I mean by shutting off the Repugs) If anyone takes a stand with Dodd (man of Integrity) they'll show us that they have some. I expect that Edwards will, I hope that Obama and/or Hillary will also. Else we're really done.
Britisher @ 38:
What evidence is there that (VP-elect) Edwards is being 'shut-out' by the DNC? The DLC, Rahm Emanuel's unit, that's understandable--it's Clinton territory. But DNC? I'm unaware of any shutting-out being done by the party itself, and as a supporter of Edwards (all the way to the convention), I would be interested in any substantiation of that charge.
(I presume you meant DLC, Dem Leadership Comm, not DCCC, Dem Congressional Campaign Comm, which was chaired by Emanuel, a DLC stalwart, in 2006 but is now chaired by Chris Van Hollen [put there by Pelosi, instead of the DLC, which may have something to do with Emanuel's fight with Howard Dean, the head of the DNC, or may just be due to Emanuel becoming head of the DC, Dem Caucus, which is the caucus of the whole which elects leadership in the Congress]).
stymie @ 40:
It's not the R that Reid is yielding to, it's the 25 Rockefeller Dems in the Senate, who wield a great deal of power, mostly for the so-called corporatists.
As for Edwards, he isn't in the Senate, so he will have about zero to do with it, other than to condemn it publically.
Stupid Git @ 37:
In Iowa? How were Dodd supporters going to vote as Iowans?
Senator Dodd was immensely pleased at the support he has gotten, and you turning it into a negative is just inaccurate.
Someone told me CNN was reporting that R are moving a bill in Congress to immunize Bush from warcrimes charges. The best way to immunize the poor dear from charges is to convict him on his crimes and hang him. That way he won't have to worrry about being hounded, and can go and enjoy the virgins.
reid and pelosi are a fucking joke, im holding my breath.
GO CHRIS(T) DODD!
Ryan from Portland @ 44:
On this issue (immunity for telecoms) Pelosi has been correct right down the numbers. Has NEVER offered immunity, and does not support any such offer.
Paul in LA Says:
Yet. How many other things has she caved on? I'm not holding my breath for a sudden display of liberal steadfastness now.
.
SINCE WHEN IS WARRANTLESS EVER LEGAL?
.
FISA is "true colors" time for the Congress. Also, if the Democratic Candidates do not take up this constitutional issue and fight for the right of privacy for U.S. citizens they prove how much they been bought and sold. If Bush gets a pass from the mainstream media, I will feel like Bob Dylan when he raved, "I ain't gonna work on Maggies Farm no more." It will be another U.S. disgrace. Wake up politicians or smell the revolution coming.
"There is fist fights in the kitchen. It is enough to make me cry. Then the mailman comes in, even he's got to take a side, even the Butler, he's got something to prove. And you ask why I don't live here, Honey why don't you just move!" (words from Dylan's "Maggie's Farm")
My face is red. Opps, Last paragraph of comment # 49, the notation is wrong. It's not from "Maggie's Farm" but the song "On the Road Again." It's from the same album "Bringing It All Back Home." It just goes to show you, don't read everything on the internet.
Impeach Cheney then Bush for not defending the Constitution of the United States of America.
Quick Re-cap:
FISA - LAW OF THE LAND, 72 hours for retroactive warrants of 'surveillance'
Bush Crime Family/Syndicate - We don't need no stinkin warrants, we'll tell 'we the people' where to shove their bill of rights...
Dept of Justice - I don't recall, out to lunch, will be back at/see you in January 09
Telecoms - BROKE THE LAW by blatantly giving the WH everything they wanted (aiding & abetting) so things like 'the new at&t' could recouple its former monopolistic hold on this country (Verizon, etc...all guilty) They don't want to be left holding the criminal & civil liability bag while the crime family retreats to their speaking circuit & scrub brush ranch (Bush) or half of Wyoming (Cheney)
THIS IS THE BEST CHANCE to get the goods on this 'administration' and impeach (even if it is after they leave the WH) Whatever petitions/phone calls you need to make do them....
Make that comment # 48 on # 49. You know what I mean.
Face is redder than ever.
It is these kinds of issues where all three of the media-annointed top three disappoint. Their silence on issues of defending the Constitution, civil liberties and human rights is deafening. This is what Kucinich is talking about, warning us about. But the "news" media has apparently decided that they are forbidden topics, and any candidate who talks about them will be silenced by not being allowed to participate.
I expect nothing of substance from any of the so-called leaders.
Pelosi sucks. Reid swallows.
Wait...the two top presidential contenders from the Democratic party - current senators - will support someone else's filibuster but won't bother to do it themselves?
This is some weak-ass shit right here. They need to show up, vote on legislation, and freaking well LEAD from the Senate floor. Everything else is shallow, pandering lip service, delivered by career politicians.
I'm sick to the teeth of it.
MY LETTER TO EDWARDS
Senator Edwards,
As a contributor to and supporter of your presidential campaign, I fervently hope you will call attention to the FISA debate and the issue of “retroactive immunity” for lawbreaking telecoms.
Retroactive Immunity. It pains me to type it. What a PR coup! Doesn’t it just sound so much better than “breaking the law then getting away with it because you are rich and connected?”
This is a winning opportunity for you; a chance to take the moral high-ground and embarrass your rivals who benefit from telecom contributions and support.
I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you that in addition this is a strong issue with the netroots. You will be sure to gain internet exposure. The corporate media can hardly cover you any less so there’s little to lose.
I am confident you will emerge as a leader against special treatment for telecoms.
Best wishes and regards,
Since When is it OK to SPY on its citizens?
GET SOME BALLS
FINE Yahoo & ATT
JAIL BUSH and chenney
Obama and Clinton can dance around an issue like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. How about actually showing some backbone and standing up against this. Immunity for the southworstern bell, er... I mean the "new" at&t and verizon means that we won't know what happened and as long as this information stays secret, W and The Dick are safe. This needs to end. Harry Reid can go to hell. I'm just waiting for the Reid apologists to come out of the woodwork. If you are an enabler, you are part of the problem. If you're sitting idly by while W's War On Freedom continues, you are traitor to your country. Anybody that sits by and lets this happen to save their career politician ass is just as guilty as those who are working to undermine liberty in America. Both groups should be put on trial for treason in my mind. Notice I said trial, because I believe in American principles like innocent until proven guilty unlike those people.
The War On Freedom had gone too far long before this; the fascists have been trying to undermine the Fourth Amendment for decades. We now have "search incident to arrest", which means if you are arrested, the police don't need your consent to do a search of your vehicle. At one point, Iowa even tried to do "search incident to citation", which means if you have a burned out tail light the police can search your car without your consent. Fortunately the US Supreme Court overturned that one. If it hadn't been overturned, we would next have had "search incident to LEO's boredom".
I'm going to tell all of your right now, the more liberties we lose, the harder it will be to keep the ones which remain. The time to fight is now. And that starts with repeated phone calls to your congress snake. Or if you actually have good representation in Congress, then call and tell your representative to keep up the good work.
impeachbushnow @ 56:
Since the public allowed it. You don't say no, it's the same as saying yes.
Bush and Cheney in jail would be a start. But that's not enough. There are plenty of others who would continue the War On Freedom where they left off.
Helena Montana @ 46:
Your efforts at scapegoating are wonderful to behold. Clearly she controls the minds and votes of 434 elected officials. Why doesn't she do something?
In August, Congress updated the FISA laws but demanded a sunset to these provisions. The original FISA legislation has been updated many times in the past to keep pace with changes in technology from when the law was first drafted in 1978. Without these latest legislative changes, though, our intelligence agencies lose their ability to keep up with technology advances in the high-stakes, fast-paced field of terrorist surveillance. It is really that simple.
I don't think "force" means what you think it means.
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