Late Edition: Silvestre Reyes Says The House Is About Ready To Approve FISA Bill---<i>WITH</i> Immunity
By Nicole Belle Saturday Mar 01, 2008 7:03pm
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Dick Cheney has his go-to guy in Tim Russert; George Bush has Wolf Blitzer. Despite the fact that the president's petulant hysteria that refusing to include retroactive immunity will endanger Americans, a lie that even his own people can't support, has been thoroughly debunked, that's not going to stop Wolf Blitzer from serving up a hot, steaming pile of propaganda direct from the bowels of the White House to House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes this morning on Late Edition.
Unfortunately, whatever blinders that Blitzer has on that does not allow him to get facts about this FISA propaganda is also apparently affecting the House intelligence committee as well, as Reyes tells Blitzer that they are negotiating a compromise that could include telecom immunity.
"We are talking to the representatives from the communications companies because if we're going to give them blanket immunity, we want to know and we want to understand what it is that we're giving immunity for," he said. "I have an open mind about that."
Regarding a compromise deal, Reyes said: "We think we're very close, probably within the next week we'll be able to hopefully bring it to a vote."
Please, no. Jumping Jiminy on a popsicle stick, is there no blatantly illegal acts that this White House wants to commit that the Congress will fight? Maybe they're wishing for the telecom largese to come back.
Studs Terkel, author and oral historian; Quentin Young, physician and advocate for health-care reform; State Rep. Barbara Flynn Currie; and James Montgomery, former Chicago corporation counsel, are plaintiffs in Terkel, et. al vs. AT&T. They've written an op-ed on Why We Sued The Phone Company. Clearly, we will have to deluge Congress with demands that they not cave into the Bush administration. Again. Your first stop is this PfAW petition as well as sending emails/snail mails and faxes to your representatives.
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Blitzer should just go and work for Faux News. He is just so blatently biased!
Caving in 3-2-1............
Is anyone honestly surprised by this? The pattern has been established.
To think I actually phoned the Texas office of Reyes long distance just last week, and via voice mail congragulated him for his big, badass, principled statement denouncing Telcom immunity. If this report proves true, I'm finished voting democratic. Forever.
if nothing illegal or unconstitutional is done...no immunity is required
fucking lily livered dem congress
why did we vote for these guys to take power?
how does a lame duck prez, with no popular support bully anyone?
i am sick
blackmail. iirc, when reyes was first took that chair. he was revealed as stupid and uninformed as bush re iraqi players. it was also noted how his family had all successfully parlayed his position into nice cushy jobs for them.
So they're going to give them immunity despite the fact they hardly asked for it?
This is absurd. They're just covering their own asses now and everyone knows it. The Telcos don't need no stinking immunity because they will never go bankrupt, which would destroy communications in this country. What's more is that the Telcos can't unsee what they have seen while in league with the administration, and it all boils down to that pesky surveillance program that was enacted pre-9/11 that Bush said was justified by 9/11 to keep us from having future 9/11s despite the fact it didn't freaking protect us from 9/11.
This is so blatant that it makes me want to puke. Protection from 3000 counts of negligent manslaughter is what this is.
oh how shocking.
I'm worried about the health of congressmen and women today. They are in urgent need of spine transplants
is this asshole a repug or DINO?
Read: The telco lobbies are filling our campaign coffers.
danger @ 7:
Im sure there is something else in the language of the bill that is even more important to the party shortly leaving office. and it will in turn benefit the party entering.
CoIntelPro @ 10:
dino
The next five years are going to be crazy.
Sid @ 1:
Even more blatant, Wolf was CNN's food news guy. But, because they pay their people peanuts, he rose to the position he holds today. Proving once again, you do get exactly what you pay for.
LISTEN UP BUNCH OF COWARDLY DEMOCRATS... IF YOU GIVE TELCOM IMMUNITY YOU CAN KISS MY VOTE GOODBYE AND I'LL GO ON A CRUSADE SO MY FRIENDS THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES WON'T VOTE FOR YOUR SORRY ASSES EITHER.
[Please don't post in ALLCAPS. Thanks-Sitemonitor]
rend @ 12:
What could that possibly be? Absolving of their crimes too?
Adam Smith of Wa. will be hearing from me.
This is fucking ridiculous. The issue is dead. The People have Spoken. Democrats need to drop this issue NOW. There are more important issues pressing for our attention than giving Bush another free fucking ride.
How about pursuing that contempt citation?
I'm very unimpressed with the Democratically controlled Congress. Bill Maher was right on the other night when he pointed out that they seem to want a more thorough investigation of Roger Clemens than of Alberto Gonzalez. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are pretty much failing at running the place and the Democrats are only slightly less incompetent than the Republicans were when they were in charge it would seem.
I mean, you REALLY have to work to have a lower approval rating than President Dumbass.
I was really, really hoping I would not have to fulfill my pledge to quit the Democratic party if FISA passes with immunity intact.
I thought they were going to stick to their guns!
Goddammit! STAND FOR SOMETHING!
Aristocracy is the norm in history, freedom its precious jewel.
He was saying this on NPR almost 2 weeks ago.
The democrats always cave. Get use to it.
Replace Nancy and Harry.
slippytoad @ 19:
And was someone listening? Or do we have to say it on the phone?
For all you idiot Dems out there that hate Nader. What IS the difference between the spineless Democratic Party and the thoroughly corrupt Rethuglican one?
Rotten cowardly Dems prepare to cave again. If they do, I'll stay home this November. Or go vote for Ralph.
I really don't think these old clod-heads really comprehend the issue of telecom immunity like we are.
It's crazy really, because I think not only are they spineless on the issue, they're damn near scared to death of casting a vote which way or the other.
Write - check. Email - check. Fax - check. Sign a petition - check. All too may times to count.
Call - nope, haven't done that because I'm deaf.
But this is the Real World, and in the Real World you take what you can get and move on.
So if they can come up w/ a "compromise" that includes something along the lines of the Spector-Whitehouse Amendment (i.v., for details) ... well, it's something that I might be able to live with.
Provide an alternative to blanket immunity for telecommunication companies.
Democrats have an amendment that would substitute the government for telecommunication companies being sued for their participation in the warrantless wiretapping program, but only if the company is first determined by the FISA Court to have cooperated with the Bush Administration reasonably and in good faith. Plaintiffs would be entitled to appear before the court as well, and if the court found that the company did not act reasonably and in good faith, the company would remain in litigation and not be substituted. This approach strikes a balance between the "full immunity" approach, which would rob plaintiffs of their day in court, and the "no immunity" approach, which may unfairly punish companies who relied upon the Bush Administration's claims that the warrantless wiretapping program was legal. Moreover, this approach places the primary responsibility for any wrongdoing where it belongs: with the Bush Administration. (Specter-Whitehouse)
Hopefully Reyes is asking for something that Bush won't deliver: Details.
Hopefully the future holds for us a choice of phone companies that don't spy on us, and haven't broken the laws.
dmhlt @ 28:
No motherfucking compromise. They knew this was illegal and they did it anyway. I want to see them BANKRUPT for this shit. These companies, and their investors, need to have their ASSES BURNED RAW to understand that breaking the law is breaking the law, no matter who the FUCK told you to do it.
THERE IS NO COMPROMISE. PERIOD. If the Dems cave on this they can expect chaos at the polls in November.
They cave because they don't want to orphan their children. They know that the alternative is anthrax in their offices, as happened to Daschle. We are cruel to expect otherwise. We have lost.
Who's going to be our stooge in the MSM once the first 8 years of the 21st century are but a noxious memory?
dmhlt @ 28:
Yes I think most Americans want Bush and the Republicans to pay for this, and for the Data Mining to stop.
Data Mining must stop. It will one way or another.
Look what's happening out in the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Hey I'm dancing down the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Ain't it amazing all the people I meet
Got a revolution Got to revolution
One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Come on now we're marching to the sea
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Who will take it from you
We will and who are we
We are volunteers of America
Jamieh @ 31:
It could be ricin.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_080302_ricin_man_identi...
Speaking of anthrax what's the latest on the Ricin?
We need an email thing like Friedoglake has!!!
FOX is State Sponsored TV @ 36:
It's still deadly
:P
Too bad you are surprised by this.
Just wait until the election .... you are in for an even bigger surprise.
.
SINCE WHEN IS WARRANTLESS LEGAL?
One of the defining characteristics to what it means to be an American, is the freedom from a form of Government that needs to spy on it’s own people; FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY. Thus The Fourth Amendment.
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS…
And so, THEY(sic) lobby and debate the merits to undermining that characteristic, that freedom, that Right. When Americans and America lose that Right and freedom, who wins?
Just what does Congress support and defend IF NOT the Constitution of the USA and our Rights contained within?
.
any house democrat that votes in favor of any fisa bill that includes any
form of telecom immunity is setting himself/herself for open season.
to support this criminal pres/vp again and again, demand the
American citizens take back THEIR COUNTRY and remove all those
who demonstrate actions that continue to destroy the Constitution.
we will no longer tolerate this kind of crime and will punish
those who will. removal from office will not be enough.
Here is my letter to The Beard:
Hello,
Along with a large number of Americans, I have been keeping a close watch on the handling of FISA (see Protect America Act), telecom immunity and Congressional oversight. As much of a fan of CNN as I am, the simplistic and at times pro-immunity stance that The Situation Room and other CNN programs has taken does viewers a great disservice. It is better to not report a story at all, than to represent it in an incomplete and biased manner.
I regret CNN's complicity in promoting telecom immunity, and the disenfranchisement of its viewers.
You can send your letter to CNN HERE
The US is officially a Banana Republic.
I've never been this disillusioned when it comes to politics. Ever. This FISA crap has made my faith in government hit rock bottom. A 4th grader should be able to understand why retroactive immunity makes no sense.
Why should you guys be surprised by this? This has been the standard operating procedure from the Dems in Congress for over a year now. They talk a lot but at the end of the day they compromise and surrender and retreat. The only times they will EVER grow a spine is when you threaten to take away their jobs! So start your marches. Get your protests. Don't listen to their empty promises. Don't accept their mealy-mouthed excuses. Get off your duffs and say to them the two words that made Donald Trump famous...
YOU'RE FIRED!
If these phone companies and Bush get a pass from the congress I'm gonna run for office on a privacy platform. Seriously.
anon @ 39:
You're actually going to post something that makes a modicum of sense by then ?
We all await that blessed day/event breathlessly...........
DHavok @ 20:
uh oh.....shhhhh.....be vewy vewy qwiet.....you will bring the wrath of PiLA in 4, 3, 2, 1..............
anon @ 39:
BTW
Aren't you one of those GOP/Chimpy backing suckholes that claimed something similar about the '06 election ?
Good call there too , Nostradumbass............
Let me guess: Another thing Obama and Clinton will not vote on - that way they can waffle (pander) back and forth on another important issue.
harley @ 50:
Obama already voted against telecom immunity , while Hillary didn't bother to show to vote at all ; and of course McInsane the GOP senile old piece of shit , voted in favor of immunity for the telecom companies.
I think the telecom immunity issue is a part of a larger issue, namely information control. The courts have noted that democracy depends on “an uninhibited marketplace of ideas in which truth will prevail” - a marketplace where there is a “wide diversity of viewpoints from a multiplicity of sources.”
We have FCC regulations and media consolidation to reduce information sources in the traditional media. I think these corporate owned Democrats and Republicans also seek the same on the internet through the end of net neutrality - hence, they're willing to play ball with the industry in order to pull it off. First step, reduce competition to a duopoly between cable and dsl. Next step will be the end of net neutrality and the conversion of the internet into a broadcast type model.
In order for our government to be a government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation, it is necessary to reduce the multiplicity of ideas so that the truth won't prevail. We see manifestations daily by the broadcast media, such as flag waving being the sole determinate of patriotism.
This immunity issue is a symptom of a larger problem, which is the corporate owned politician seeking to control the discussion of the issues. They know that if they control what people see and hear, they'll control what they think, say, and vote. They need those telecoms to control what people see and hear. So, they'll play ball on the immunity issue.
Meanwhile, we need lots of peer to peer wireless networks, and lots of encryption. Everything should be encrypted. This site should have ssl. Let them come to the site rather than sniff packets if they want to see what is posted.
anon @ 39:
here you are again with more of your dumb-ass baseless commets.
state the facts for shut the fuck up and blow away
Why are they so afraid of smirk? Just stand up to the schmuck and he'll turn to jelly (after throwing a temper tantrum of course).
It all boils down to:
Bush wants, Bush gets.
There is not two parties anymore.
anon @ 39:
Better think again, genius. Your party of hacks and kooks is going to be buried in November by Barack Obama. If you're lucky, you might live long enough to see them become the majority party again, that is if you live to be 200.
MCMetal @ 49:
In all fairness, as this post is hinting at, the GOP might has well won in 06.
Hey Pelosi "Credibility is off the table". Namely yours.
anon @ 39:
Let me introduce you to Howard Dean.
This pusle of rejection for immunity is even MORE important than the first one, becuase the first one they saw coming. Now they're expecting the Dems to roll over (As usual).
This MUST NOT go through. This challenge is even more important because if defeated it will send a message that the Dems will NOT abandon the constitution.
I am voting against any incumbent dino or repug! PERIOD!!!!
I'm quitting the Democratic party the very fucking second they pass this piece of shit. Fuck them forever. If they don't defend against this that'll be 0 accomplishments when this one was easy. (ie they don't have to put up a single fucking goddamn bill).
They are giving the GOP an infrastructure of technological power that they can use to shape future elections and propaganda by systematically data mining us. If the dems vote for them then they equal the GOP and that is something I can't support.
To all you democrat idiots who will vote for this: It is our hope that the wiretap is used against you, that you will be defeated on the information that is obtained. That information, along with the rightous wrath of we Democrats who will not tolerate your dispicable actions of enabling bush and his illegal actions. A list will be kept of you who do this, to be consulted at your next election. Not interested in the will of the people, well fuck you.
anon @ 39:
Who says there will be an election?
ConcernedCanuck @ 57:
it did!
The next revolution will not be televised.
Ron @ 66:
The revolution is for Americans to leave the country. In the previous 12 months I personally know 18 families that have said "see you later". The youngest couple is aged 37 and 39. Live extremely comfortable in Costa Rica on $1500 a month. At Church today I overheard a group of people talking about how prices have gone up over 7% month to month at Costco. Going to Church gas was $3.05 a gallon, coming back home it was $3.29 per gallon at the same station.
How cares about the stupid tax cuts when this Administration policy is to destroy the USD and cause massive inflation for the peasants?
I'll bet anything that Obama, the anointed sainted one, won't say one peep about this.
PayOff @ 68:
He voted against telecom immunity last month in the Senate.
PayOff @ 68:
None of them talk about anything I care about. Social security will be broke by 2014. 100% of our GDP will be going to pay for interest on the 10T current account deficit by then. If their health care plans do not totally break the bank before then.
Ron @ 69:
Oh, and Hillary was a no show.
TalkieToaster @ 62:
United we stand, and divided we fall. I think the thing to do is to take over the Democrat party, representative by representative, senator by senator. The Republicans know they have to fix their party, and we have to fix ours. I caught the tail end of the Nader interview on Meet the Press, and I think I heard him say that we should form watchdog groups on each representative and senator, and hound them whenever they step out of line. They pull their stunts because they have the cover of the corporate media, particularly in economic treason - in order to counter that watchdog groups could be throwing a red flag.
I think we'll have government like this so long as there is no campaign financing reform, and corporations are bankrolling the politicians. The politicians are beholden to the corporations, with no economic nationalism at all, as evidenced by the trade deficits. We almost got Leiberman in 2006. I think if it had happened in 2008 we could have replaced him. Unfortunately, this year, the focus has been myopic on the Presidency, because we should have targeted by now, a few worthless Democrat representatives and Senators for replacement.
Ron @ 66:
should be shown on a plasma tv in liveing color!
Ron @ 69:
He showed up because the backlash on his "not showing up for anything" was going to a head.
It doesn't matter that someone in the senate or house used their measly fucking vote to vote against it. It DOES NOT give them cover. This is not a good bill that they could not pass because they can't get enough for a veto override...this is a BAD bill that they could have tabled FOREVER at ANY POINT IN THIS WHOLE FUCKING FIASCO.
They don't have to put up any bill they don't want to. And they did it anyway. THEN...they fucking passed it.
The whole lot of these assholes are fucking DINOS.
PayOff @ 68:
He's already made his position clear. You got anything to add?
P.S.
I'm a little mad
Conclusion:
Get mad too!
Phone your reps or better yet go there and sit in their office for an hour and give them a piece of your mind.
I did that with Mitchell.
GET OUT AND DO IT. There is no recourse if this bill passes. None. Free reign to data-mine the Dem party from here on out means we NEVER win again. That kind of spy power is greater power than any government has had previously.
tyree @ 73:
Don't ever believe what the media tells you about Venezuela either.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144
Nicole....I just wanted to take a second and thank you and everyone on this blog for the fine job you do. You have stuck by fighting on this FISA matter, even though it seems downright hopeless. Moreso than many Dems in Congress. You do a great job!
Fuckers
Canuknotusa @ 43:
That's exactly it. We should send each of our reps a case of bananas.
Preferably ROTTEN.
The Democrats were always going to do this. Their "principled stand" wilted in the face of Telecom companies withholding their contributions to Congress. If not this reason, they would have caved in for one of many other illegitimate reasons.
Reyes is one of those in the house, like Nancy Pelosi who is selling the American people out on immunity for the telecoms so they can broker another amnesty deal and keep getting the corporate big bucks to line their pockets.
Pelosi's husband makes huge profits by refusing to hire American citizens, citizens who are black, brown and white, because it's cheaper to hire illegal aliens. Dianne Feinstein had to step down from the chairmanship of a committee last year because she'd been caught pushing through contracts and federal financing through for deals that her husband got, he's an Iraq war profiteer. Google this for yourselves and learn.
Amnesty and open borders doesn't help the poor from Latin America, it only helps preserve the status quo in corrupt, wealthy countries like Mexico. It helps them avoid having a large group of their poorest from protesting to demand higher wages and more opportunities like Americans did throughout the 20th century. What's more, it helps impose that same status quo here, by undermining American wage standards, workplace, environmental, food and product safety protections. There is a wider interest here, but too many of the 'net roots have lost touch with what is at stake. They also ignore the poverty among American citizens. What we saw after hurricane Katrina exists in all of our backyards if we'd only open our eyes up to see it.
We have to vote out sell out democrats as well in the congressional elections this year.
Did anyone really expect a different outcome? These Democrats are disappointing - they seem to vote a lot like Republicans do. At least the Republicans don't grovel in front of the cameras and apologize for it afterwards...
X @ 84:
more of the same in 09!
FUCKING DEMOCRAT NEO-LIB, REPUBLICAN NEO-CON, FASCIST ASSHOLES!!!!!!!
Why don't these shills get it?
If we can't sue the bastards, we're going to boycott their asses.
Either one is going to hurt!
My suggestion to AT&T is simple; hand us everything you gave those bastards, and regain some of your integrity!
Or else!!!!!!!!!!
Were there some companies that did not participate?
The Dems made a big deal of standing tall on this issue for once reason and one reason only, to shut us the people up in the hopes that we'd forget about it. Like the old days we'd forget about it and they could go back to governing without any of us paying attention. Both sides of the aisle hate it that we're finally paying attention to what they're doing. They like to work at getting rich while giving off the illusion that they actually stand for something other than getting rich.
We have given the Democrats everything they asked for. We put them back in power, we have made it perfectly clear that we reject what Bush and the Republicans stand for, and we've given their campaigns our money and our time. For all that we've done they have rewarded us (not all mind you) by stabbing us in the back on every issue that is important to us. Torture, sure give in to Bush. The economy, sure let Chimpy make a big deal about passing out his tiny checks. The war, sure give Bush all the money he asks for without the most important caveat which was to begin bringing the troops home. Warrantless spying on American citizens, sure why not.
Bush is a coward but the Democrats in Congress have proven to be even bigger cowards. When you have the support of 81% of Americans and you still cower in the corner when the petulant frat boy stomps his feet you can be nothing but a coward. The only hope I see is that we're making some headway in getting better Democrats in to Congress. It will be a slow process due to the fact that it's difficult to get rid of incumbents but we have to keep trying. At least until a viable 3rd party comes along that is.
Giving in to Bush on telcom immunity, I can honestly say now that I've seen everything.
Stupid suggestion of the day.
Looks like we don't need Reyes, since we'll probably pick up a bunch of seats in the House due to the Repub retirements.
If you live in Reye's district, vote for his opponent. A republican in his seat would be better than a DINO such as Reyes undermining us.
.
RecoveredRepublican @ 88:
Qwest, and they suffered terribly because of it. Only in Bush's America can a company do the right thing and suffer while the companies that broke the law prosper and are protected. Of course what you expect when criminals are running the country.
The real issue is fascism. The democrats should make a commercial with all of the steps that Italy took towards the same fascism that the FISA immunity will create!
We the people.... my ass!!!
We the Corporations...is more accurate!!!
I do believe that I heard that if telecom immunity passes, then it will be challenged in the courts. Since our corporate owned politicians pick these judges, probably not a lot of hope, but consider the concept here. This wiretapping is, among other things, a violation of the 4th amendment of the constitution, and the Congress is in effect, nullifying the 4th through legislation, rather then sending an amendment repealing the 4th to the several states for ratification.
Between the Congress and the Bush regime, our democracy is in a bit of jeopardy as the corporate owned politicians act to make the constitution an advisory document, with no teeth. While both parties are corporate owned, I think we'll have better luck with Democrats picking the judges if Obama or Clinton wins the presidency.
Jamieh @ 31:
Let them resign and get a job at McDonalds. No big perks, health insurance and pension for cowards! They took an oath; they're all violating it. Don't put it on our backs.
tyree @ 73:
I'm not buying a digital upgrade box or a new LCD digital TV. I'm turning the fucking thing off in Feb 2009 and I'll go cold turkey without PBS and Law & Order, but I will not be a willing recipient of propaganda any more.
Drew @ 86:
Yep. And both Hillary and Barrack "I'll put both Hagel and Lugar in my cabinet" Obama fit that category.
I heard on CNN that the Republic Party has introduced a bill that will make it so that only democrats have to obey laws. The Democrats are expected to approve it this week.
If the dems cave in, will this give cause for the Hero of C&l, Keith "The Jock Sniffer turned news guy" Olbermann to give one of his left wing screeds, aka, Special Comments.
Remember, KO speaks truth to power........ snicker.
[Hi. You're a flamebaiter, and you change handles. If you'd read the commenting policy, you'd know that your behavior will get you banned. Bye bye-Sitemonitor]
No oversight
No records
Subpoena ignored
No checks and balances
Congress: But it's ok chimpy we will give you want you want, we just wanted to see you throw a fit. AHHAHAHAHAH We love how you are running the country! Hellava job chimpy.
Impeach Congress stupid ass assholes.
NO IMMUNITY
Just wondering.... @ 98:
WTF is wrong with you?
Keith is just great at what he did and what he does now.
ralph @ 97:
HAHAHAHAHA
Drew @ 86:
what's wrong mother squeeze your head too hard in the birth canal?
Before you go jumping and screaming, the new Patriot act is giving immunity to the telecom, but with exclusion of giving immunity to the govt that authorize the spying without a FISA warrant. So the people can still bring a lawsuit to the telecom, but the govt will be held liable for not cooperating with the FISA court if they fail to produce a warrant. Giving immunity would actually make the telecom more cooperative to divulge record of any wiretapping if they cooperate in the investigation. Trust me, If the Democrats pass this new bill, it will get veto by Bush. This new bill is crafty to put the burden back on Bush if he veto it. Because they worded it to give the telecom the immunity as he wanted but not entirely the way Bush wanted to also be immune for wiretapping.
All of this reworking the bill may be moot point if the judicial system still ignore the constitution. If all else fail they could very well just not bring this to court. At some point, we may have to think about a civil class suit against the judicial system. I am not please with what Sandra Day O'Conner has to say about how Bush got appointed by the judicial court.
How should I put it? It is a very kindness worded way to say that the judicial system is something we may have to deal with before getting our country back. When a possible innocent Alabama Former Govenor who is being denied a right to a fair trial being held without an appeal by the justice system, brings back remembrance of the Pre-Bastille day of France, during their time of Pre-Habeas Corpus rights and civil rights.
What, no posts by Paul in LA defending the Pelosicrats? Paul, Paul, wake up! Tell us again how they are donig the best they can and are hamstrung by those pesky repubs.... What? You got nuttin'? ... Tsk, tsk..
Like many (esp. the indefatigable Mike Myers) I have said for months that FISA and all other administration crimes must be addressed by Impeachment. That lefty blogs thought they had won some great victory with Dodd’s opportunistic grab at the FISA issue and those blogs acceptance of “Impeachment is off the table” allowed the Pelosicrats to stall, to wait things out so their own complicity in the crimes will only be something for the footnotes of future history books. I hope that this FISA ‘debate’ finally wakes up the digby, the Hamshers, the Amatos, and all the rest of the huffpo lite dem bloggers that only a total and unremitting call for Impeachment will stop the sellout. It should be a litmus test for every person in Congress. They should either stand up for Impeachment, now, or know that all progressives will work for their defeat, if not in ‘08 then in
No surprise in this, they've given them whatever they've wanted from the beginning.
Did anyone expect anything different ?
I didn't think so.
McBush with Scum-bur-man is in your future my friends.
Just wait . . . you'll hear . . . it's just too-close-to-call . . . too-close-to call . . .
an unbelievably close race ladies and gentlemen . . . but . . . McBush wins !!!!!
chimpy:
OK if i don't get y'all immunity, y'all will be sued for a shitload of money. hehe
Ok boys give us the money and I will give you immunity.
telecom:
How can we be sure? We know you are the royal decider and we appreciate you covering our asses but the house looks like they won't pass the bill.
chimpy:
Don't worry about it. We have a shitload of data on my enemies. Hell, I can tell you their favorite pizza.
telecom:
Ok, we will support whomever you support. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
chimpy
That's my boy.
While shaking hand to seal the deal a rare chandelier fell 15 ft hitting the crown of their heads.
slippytoad @ 19:
After they make sure that no jocks a takin' them steroids. Priorities. The constitution shredding by chimpy, and the blatant raping and pillaging of america can just wait.
I hope their "don't rock the boat" approach gets them a shitload of independent votes, because the way they are going, these gutless, braindead asshole dems are going to lose a big chunk of their base. If they give president shit-for-brains (Mr. 21% approval rating) his immunity, I will definitely vote green. I've had enough of these two faced, corporate-owned,
backstabbing bastards.
And this Selestre guy is dumber than a bag of hammers. This imbecile could give chimpy a run for his money in the nitwit department. We are so screwed.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 101:
ROFLMAO! Now that was funny.
I heard Harry Reid is expected to overide Chris Dodds filibuster to make sure it gets through.
paranoia @ 103:
You put that mildly. It does make a different, either they are going to cap the amount of the settlements or they will be done with it with a class act suit. Either or both ways the settlement will be a fixed amount.
chimpy was in cahoot with the telecom corp. in breaking the law nth times. Pure and simple.
Why should we give the telecom what they want? Because it will give them a chance to tell the truth? Hogwash. Throw their asses in jail until they talk. Hold their asses in contempt.
Like a poster said we will take back the US district by district.
Nice post.
It's just so hair pullingly maddening. These fucking people are tools...all of them. They don't give shit one about the people. And meanwhile there's enough smoke floating around about Bush and company's high crimes and misdemeanors yet nobody steps up to the plate to support this country and the constitution. Anyone else starting to understand why there are militia groups out there? Anyone want to start one?
JW @ 4:
Please rethink that. We need a change and we don't need Nader F^@king it up. I agree with you the Democrats have been gutless, but I think they are our best chance to be recognized out here in this lonely world. I watch the senate regularly and they are trying to do something. They don't have enough people and some of the Democrats vote with the Republicans. The Republican senate would follow Bush to hell, and I hope they get the opportunity.
No DEAL..............
This body of government is asking for a WAR against it's own (AMERICAN) people. By the destruction of a well established U.S. Constituion from this body of government, to enslave the AMERICAN people throught this facism; It is setting itself PRIME for a new AMERICAN Revolution. AMERICANS are clearly experienced being pushed to the EDGE and WE THE PEOPLE ..................ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.........
Absolutely No retroactive IMMUNITY should be given to Crimes committed. FUTURE immunity perhaps can be considered after careful evaluations.
The elected officials is COMPLETELY ignoring the people. They (elected officials) are forgetting their role in our society. They have forgotten who they WORK for. They have gone deaf ears to the AMERICAN PEOPLE.
I feel another GUTLESS cavein comming, WE the PEOPLE have to wake up and start getting rid of the Guttless DEMOCRATS and put some real DEMs., in office also the CORAPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA has to be broken up.
This will be one of the darkest days in American History.
Oh that we could kick the entire membership of the Democratic Party who have voted for any form of retro immunity to the curb and out of our lives, then kick them to jail, then onto a slow boat to China.
Anyone who votes for retro immunity is not serving any good to our country... And to me there is not one exception. Anyone who votes this way, yet otherwise has had a good record of progressive voting, has nullified their entire careers by this singular (cingular) lack of integrity.
I hate you all, to boot.
And since I cannot do anything about it (letters, emails, phone call, faxes, NONE of it works with these assholes), I have to add: go to hell each and every last one of you cretins.
(there, at least i feel one iota better, though still disgusted. This issue has mattered more to me than any other in my life time)
JW @ 4:
As compared to what?
Reyes is weak, but he's better than Jane Harmon would have been. This bill should have been passed in the conference committee, but apparently that wasn't possible. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter what Reyes thinks -- it will go up for a floor vote, and if the Blue Dogs have screwed us on it, then they have the votes to pass it (and otherwise not).
Push has come to shove. Public opposition is crucial.
slippytoad @ 19:
That's in process. "[T]he House has already provided authority for the Judiciary Committee to file a civil enforcement action in federal district court and the House shall do so promptly." -- Speaker Pelosi
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 107:
In any case, Waxman will vote against immunity, and so will Pelosi, and so will Conyers, etc. The same loyal Reps will vote the same loyal way they have, all along.
There has to be a separation between failures as a body -- which btw involves the en block Republicans, who are ALL your enemies and yet who have to be harassed to a similar degree IF THEY REPRESENT YOU as any Democrat -- and the failure of individual representatives, like apparently Reyes.
Or you can scapegoat, and buy into the simplistic analysis in which the Congress is a monolith or the party is a monolith -- it is not so, and has never been so. The R can vote en block because they have abandoned their oaths. It is utterly unfair AND INACCURATE to blame loyal Democrats for disloyal Democrats or Republicans.
I think what happened is that the R boycotted the Conference Committee, so it hasn't been able to function. This is mentioned by Reyes, when he says "and by the way, we are proceeding in the regular order, with the Conference Committee..."
In other words, we (Dems) are under the regular order, the R are not.
Wolfie really earned his dog biscuit. Arf!
I have read all the comments on this thread and believe that people are still missing the obvious here.
Its pretty much an accepted fact that BushCo was implementing this plan well before 911.
So , Bush was illegally wiretapping Americans well before the day he has constantly stated was the reason for said wiretapping in the first place. At the same time he had 150 or so FBi agents running in the opposite direction trying to bury the Clintons once and for all. This while red flags and bells were going up and off all over the country with ominous warnings of an impending attack. Add in Bushes failure to get either the Anthrax mailer or the 911 put option traders. ( i read where put options investigation died at steps to Pentagon). DO the math people !!!!!!
I still think the worst is yet to come from these traitorous assholes. Bush is saving the last 2 chapters of My Pet Goat just for such an occasion.
the biggest part of the story is that they were wiretapping before 911.
the question is WHY????? do the dems have an answer for this?
Whatever Democrats vote for immunity and other constitutionally objectionable provision of theis FISA bill need to lose their seats in this year's election. It's good that this vote is coming tso early in the year, it will give others time to put together challenges to the incumbants and get campaigns rolling.
I am sick of government that is unresponsive to the will of the majority.
Why even bring it up for a vote? It has already been well established this is about protecting the private sector. Reyes even pointed out that FISA has not been diminished in any way. The protections are still there.
Paul in LA @ 117:
Democratic excuse number 4,300,179 above. Always an excuse. Betcha you are real silent after November when the Dems sweep and STILL the Repubs get anything and everything they want.
The election in Nov means notdhing, we have been brought down to communist level, even those people who sold thier bussiness and thought they made out all right, you will be lucky to live to be 60, the appetite for the globalist machine will take your money regardlesss of who you are. See how the devil lies and decieves, the people who have been silent have played right into the hands of prince of darkness.
Verdillac @ 34:
who sings this? thank you.
jweezy @ 125:
Jefferson Airplane
Col Kilgore @ 126:
who sings this? thank you.
Jefferson Airplane
Many thank you's.
jweezy @ 127:
Jefferson Airplane
Many thank you's.
no prob.. great tune..current yet again..
have a great day
I didn't read the comments, so I don't know if anyone else has made this point, but here goes... I'm not sure this is such a bad thing. I don't think the Bushistas are pressing for telecom immunity simply to protect their corporate buddies. I think the real goal, which often goes overlooked, is to prevent the process of discovery, which would be necessary if the lawsuits were to go forward. Discovery would shine a bright light on just what exactly the telecoms and Bushies were doing and what information they were looking at. The deal the House is offering (if I understand correctly) essentially says "tell us exactly what you were doing, and we'll consider immunity". This could, in effect, cut right to the chase of discovery. And the (mis)administration does NOT want that to happen. I hope I'm right and the dems aren't just acting like a bunch of battered spouses. Again.
In November, vote against EVERY incumbent. Period.
"The R can vote en block because they have abandoned their oaths. It is utterly unfair AND INACCURATE to blame loyal Democrats for disloyal Democrats or Republicans."
Sorry but... I blame them! They do not speak out. They have access to an enormous bullhorn - the floor of Congress and the press - and they DO NOT USE IT. They squeak because they are afraid to ROAR!
This represents another abysmal failure of Democratic leadership. The Republicans ran with their fearmongering and the Democrats caved. Again.
Not. Acceptable.
WTF!
All I can say is WTF!
'Throwing the bums out' is TOO GOOD for these Treasonous Bastards.
'Burning Tires' is TOO GOOD for these Treasonous Bastards.
George is a Fuktard, Doesn't 19% approval Mean ANYTHING to YOU Fu**ing Spineless Fu**ing Pieces of SH**. How Fu**ing Stupid Are YOU Fu**ing Treasonous, Mindless, Fu**ing Neocon Sheep.
Burn in HELL you &$#@*@)E(%)()#$*)(*)!@
The proposed immunity would, in theory, change the outcome of pending cases. This is an illegal assertion of judicial power by the Congress.
If the immunity is approved, the plaintiffs should move to have the court declare the immunity act unconstitutional. Then the public and prosecutors should move to prosecute Members of Congress for not fully defending the Constitution and violating their oath of office.
The act of Congress would be evidence that the individual Members have violated their oath, have abused their legislative immunity, and have not fully defended the Constitution against the domestic enemies in the Oval office and telecom community.
Immunity = treason!
Is Blitzer still getting lobbyist money? Damn, he has really shilled this hard consistently!
This might be a dumb question but can you legally sue congress?
If that's the case can't we sue Congress in general for failing to uphold the job they signed on to do?
You can't sue Bush because you can't prove that he eavesdropped on you because the evidence is all top secret. But, the evidence that Congress isn't doing it's job to protect the civil rights of American citizens over a bunch of telecom companies isn't top secret. It's in the damned news.
Anyone interested in sending a petition to Congress and copies to all the major wire services to demand that they abdicate their seats to George W. Bush and that the Congress be disbanded?
Maybe we can throw in a demand that George W. Bush be crowed Emperor of America.
Not like Congress has the balls to object and it might be good for a laugh.
Figures....Just another fucking cavein by the dems... COMEON! Someone step up and tell me I'm wrong about how this bullshit is playing out... And I went round and round about this shit a few weeks ago with our old buddy Paul in L.A..... Another fucking waste of time, ALL OF IT has been.. All the calling, writing, pleading, cajoling of 'our reps', and internet bitching back and forth with other bloggers over the little details......'Nancy didn't cave in... It was the other guys over there'... Like it makes any damned bit of difference now...
And at the end of the day, they in the halls of power ARE STILL selling out our privacy rights...Right down the tubes using the boogieman and an impossible to attain desire for absolute security for an excuse... I really, really, really, wish I could say I'm surprised by all this shit.... But that would be a lie... Ben Franklin was right... And evi-damned-dently, we DON'T deserve either..... GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL congress...both fucking houses!!!! JD
Any "representative" who votes for a bill with immunity is GUILTY of conspiring with the bush crime family to hide their crimes.
The Dems are so out-of-step with WE THE PEOPLE - continuing to "follow the money". Well many Democrats are going to find themselves out of a job, too this November.
FREAKING WIMPS!
Maybe some C&Lers should challenge the pro-immunity house Dems. It looks like some of the good ole' boys have been booted out. This year would be a good time to start planning a primary challenge for '10.
ConcernedCanuck @ 123:
dave @ 130:
And then shoot yourself in the other foot.
CalGeorge @ 131:
If you think Dems have access to the press you aren't paying attention.
As for 'the floor of the Congress' -- do you actually watch CSPAN? Plenty of Reps have given long speeches on these issues -- to no coverage, even on CSPAN in many cases.
I am so sick of what they are doing to our country. I have been a registered Democrat for over 30 years. I will not change my registration, but I will support a third party candidate that will run for Congress or the Senate. We need a progressive third party. This two party system is not working anymore. Right now, the Green party might be the best bet.
And these spineless jellyfish expect us to believe that if we get more of them in power, they'll suddenly gain the backbone to do the right thing?
I bet if all congresscritters were Dems except one, that one Repub would frighten the Dems to go along with him.
Is Reyes the same dolt who doesn't know the difference between a Shia and a Sunni? And he's on the Intelligence Committee?!
I just tried to call Congressman Reyes and their answering machine says they will be closed for Presidents Day (today is March 3) and then says his voice mailbox is full. Nancy Pelosi appointed this guy. I can spend 10 minutes a day educating myself on the important issues but these clowns can't take messages, don't have a clue about the constitution, and can go on the TV and pontificate. Throw them all out. Let's start over with some literate people who do their jobs. Nobody is talking about this on cable or radio. I'll bet 1 person in a million knows anything about how our constitution is being destroyed. I keep saying it, but they must be feeding them stupid juice in the congressional cafeteria.
enough @ 147:
Pelosi put him in place to remove Jane Harmon, who otherwise would have been Chairperson. HER record supporting Bushco nearly got her removed from Congress in 2004, and may still.
rcca @ 144:
We have a progressive third party -- it's the Democratic Wing of the Democratic party.
If you want to waste your vote, you are no closer to your goal.
Btw, Chairman Reyes is a "New Democrat," which is the DLC.
Harmon is a Blue Dog.
Paul,
Do you have a solution to this, or are you going to blabber more about, "Stay the course" and "Keep voting for the DNC." It's not November yet. What's your solution now?
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