Finagling on FISA?
Beautiful agitprop/freeway blogging from The Billboard Liberation Front. That's right, kids, it's not a photoshop.
What's up with this "compromise" on FISA? The Senate has split it into two equally bad bills, one of which includes Telecom Immunity. ACLU:
With a House vote on domestic spy legislation rumored to occur within days, there are reports of a plan to split the two titles of the terrible bill passed by the Senate that gutted the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The Senate bill contains almost no Fourth Amendment protections in its Title I, and its Title II contains immunity for telecommunications companies that illegally aided the president’s warrantlesss wiretapping program.
ACLU also has a letter to congressional leaders re FISA, that you can send online here. They also have radio spots they'll be airing in markets where they think it will make a difference.
How can the Senate even consider a bill which leads to further deterioration of privacy rights when they found out just this morning that "the FBI improperly used national security letters in 2006 to obtain personal data on Americans"? Wired's Ryan Singel has more...
Hate to say it but the House is gonna fold. Pelosi has made millions with AT&T (I don't know if she still holds the stock).
Democrats = spineless appeasers
Republicans = bullying fear mongers
Everyday Americans = screwed
Good job by the Billboard Liberation Front. Alas, satire is cold comfort as essential civil liberties are thrown away blithely by not only the White House, but Congress.
Brilliantly done.
Democrats will fold. Victory for the lame duck Bush. Defeat for the lawyers and the ACLU.
That is awesome! I think there is an AT&T billboard near my place. I'm going to have to "modify" it as well.
fiver @ 1:
Diamonds are a girls best friend.
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
I think Nancy has completely forgotten what it was she was elected to do. It wasn't watching movies on Taxpayers Time.
http://tinyurl.com/2fgmgg
Wait....are they finished worrying about steriods in baseball yet?
A "compromise" is when things are worked out and each side gives a little ; more like compromising the rights of all Americans ................
Actually, it's the other way around; everything is routed to an NSA secured room down the hall from the AT&T lunchroom!
What we did was pay off our AT@T bills, clipped up the credit cards, closed the accounts, got another phone service and said Good Luck!
Peter Hoekstra is on the House floor right now on C-Span , claiming that every moment the FISA bill is not passed , our capabilities "erode" .
Yeah , it has nothing to do with having the worst president and administration in charge for almost 8 years , right skid mark ?
How I long for the good ol' days when a secret intelligence court could authorize legal wiretaps. [sarcasm mine]
L.A. Confidential @ 12:
Delightfully satisfying.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Imagine if every one of their customers did that?
It's time to go back to the Tin Can and String.
The Bush administration must've made a deal with the telecoms for immunity in order to gain their cooperation in illegal activities, right? I mean if the government asked you to illegally spy on millions of innocent people wouldn't you want some protection?
If so, there's another reason why all the hyperventilating about how the terrorists are gonna git us if we don't give the telecoms immunity is total BS.
LA Confidential,
B-b-b-ut, aren't all the telecoms involved? So if you quit AT&T, who are you using now? And how do you know they're not illegally spying on you as well?
Leslie @ 18:
Bush Co wants to be able to listen in and spy on their political enemies and business competitors that about sums it up.
Leslie @ 18:
The retroactive immunity is not , nor ever was , for the telecom companies themselves ; it was a blanket proviso to cover Chimpy and Co's illegal activity(s)..........
Leslie @ 19:
We know they are.
LOL and we don't give a sh*t.
LA Confidential,
Yeah, I know that...maybe I wasn't clear. Bush must've made a deal prior to all the FISA bills in order to gain the telecom's cooperation. There must be a secret deal. That's why the Bushies are all hyperventilating: The telecom immunity bills have to pass or they'll have renegged on their deal with the telecoms.
fiver @ 1:
Speaker Pelosi is stallwart in opposing telecom immunity. She is NOT corrupt, and is not working to undo the Constitution.
That doesn't mean she can stop the Blue Dogs and DLC from colluding with the Republicans.
Hey Poindexter, NSA, Bushie whoever,
If you're reading this: Please stick it where the sun doesn't shine!
Leslie @ 25:
LOL there you go.
Take your bill and SHOVE IT
Leslie @ 23:
No
The telecoms are already protected ; they have already negotiated their own protection.
You don't become a multi-billion $ corporation by not knowing enough to cover your own ass(es) ; the immunity clause is actually to benefit Chimpy and Co , seeing as how they actually instigated/perhaps coerced the illegal and unconstitutional behavior.
Very apt that this is on Crooks and Liars.
I love this "Pelosi has made millions with AT&T" crap.
Supposedly her husband owns MILLIONS in telecom stock (he does not). If you own millions, do you MAKE millions? You do not.
Owning stock if you are a stock trader is not really illegal. Nor does it mean that Speaker Pelosi has been opposing telecom immunity for YEARS because she wants to make money on her husband's stock.
In case you haven't noticed, they are independently wealthy. They made a ton of money on real estate, hurting no one.
People are angry at her for the lack of 67 votes in the Senate, period. For the record, we have 20-30 votes in the Senate PERIOD. Failing to convict would be handing Bushco another mandate -- with which they would attack Iran. The irresponsible scapegoat crowd couldn't care less.
L.A. Confidential @ 16:
MCMetal @ 27:
Bingo. The whole issue is about outing Bushco's CRIMES. It has very little to do with actual court access.
pelosi is a fucking spineless douche drinking bitch.
now was that too harsh for anyone?
Paul in LA @ 29:
I don't give a damn how she and her husband made their money ; all I give a shit about is no immunity , especially because the immunity is to really cover Chimpy and Co and not the telecoms.
If she allows this nonsense to be passed , she needs to be fucking booted...........End of story.
Greenwald lies (again) on Dem Now! The House passed FISA RESTORE in November.
The expiration of PAA meant nothing to the House, which had already completed its work. Glenn Greenwald leaves that out entirely.
Yet more propaganda for simplistic thinkers. Thanks, Glenn.
Of course, protecting Bush's crimes... but I think you're missing my point: Shouldn't we know the why, when, how, etc., about any private immunity deals Bush may have made with the telecoms prior to using them for illegal domestic spying?
I sure would.
MCMetal @ 33:
How is it that she has the power to stop it? Because she has opposed it all the way down the line. The problem is IN THE SENATE, but the DLC and the Blue Dogs are now giving in.
Scapegoating the Speaker does not relate to the actual circumstances. It's just easier -- the lazy way to view something complex.
"How can the Senate even consider a bill which leads to further deterioration of privacy rights...."
It's easy. They love Bush. They love everything about him. Pelosi and Reid would 3-some with the SOB if they thought they could get away with it. If they cave, the fix is in for McCaint, pure and simple...
annie @ 30:
Don't sweat it. The bastards find a way to screw us one way or the other.
dadams @ 32:
You have a scapegoat, aren't you proud.
What shall we call you? Have you done ANYTHING to bring about better politics in America, ever?
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
Yes, laziness is the best policy. Why bother?
fwacbar @ 37:
I saw an article called Bushes Best Friends about these two.
fwacbar @ 37:
Speaker Pelosi is NOT in the Senate.
She is the biggest antiwar gov't leader we have. She has opposed telecom immunity all the way down the line. She is NOT a Bushcovic.
Paul in LA @ 40:
Well get your ass out there and get your head bashed in if your so hot to trot.
Paul in LA @ 42:
She is the biggest UN-EFFECTIVE antiwar gov't "leader" we have.
L.A. Confidential @ 43:
I protest every week, and have street-protested 700 hours since 2002.
Lazy plans for being lazy don't interest me.
bill boards are cheapish to rent kids.
deliver the msg in a clever attn getting way - spot of truth ads, cute toons, had enuf ads, ph. numbers and web addresses, to a whole new public.
post this kind of stuff here there but don't be too repetitious, preachy or annoying -- like lots of them -- and it will have grass roots effects.
also think of sm. or quarter pg ads in sm and med sz town/city newspapers, free newpaper/ad mags (like 'reader' here in s.d. and elec. coop or farm coop monthlies).
i'm betting these type ads are not that expensive.
Paul in LA @ 36:
She is Speaker of the Fucking House ; a supposed "leader".
As a "leader" you tell these "Blue Dog" douchebags they will have absolutely no backing from anyone that is firmly opposed to telecom immunity when re-election comes around.
I don't see/hear her or Reid doing anything remotely resembling that........They were elected to do OUR BIDDING ; not worry about being re-elected.
L.A. Confidential @ 44:
MCMetal @ 47:
Which would worry the Blue Dogs NOT AT ALL.
Blue Dogs run in REPUBLICAN districts. They are a kind of DINO. If you think that their existence (continued existence) in the House is the Speaker's fault, that's hilarious.
Bushco has enough co-conspirators that we cannot stop them without removing Bushco from the Executive through elections. And that's shit, but it's not shit of Pelosi's making. She has done her best -- she broke all records for rollcall votes last year, and helped force 30 R to (effectively) resign their seats.
We need her next year -- if you think it would be better to have (DLC) Steny Hoyer as Speaker, you are NOT paying attention.
Paul in LA @ 48:
Paul in LA @ 49:
Where and when did I lay blame on the existence of "Blue Dogs" at Pelosi's feet ?
I just never see her call any of them onto the mat or call them out.
BTW
Who mentioned Steny fucking Hoyer ?
Dennis Kucinich should be House Speaker.............
The only thing that's stalled the FISA bill has been us, the people. Pelosi can't do it by herself, and neither can Chris Dodd or Feingold or anyone in Congress. They need us to get angry, to make phone calls, write letters, etc.
MCMetal @ 51:
The Progressives THOUGHT that the R party MIGHT respond to 2006's landslide by recognizing that supporting Bushco was a bad strategy for THEIR future.
They did not stop their bootlicking support of Bush.
But Speaker Pelosi has been in the Congress for twenty years, as one of California's TOP Progressives. She has a LONG history of the right votes and the right legislation, and 'her' failures as Speaker she is quite willing to acknowledge. The attempt to save the R from themselves was hopeless.
IF she is not the Speaker next year, then (DLC) Steny Hoyer will be. Rep. Pelosi became Minority Leader by OPPOSING THE IRAQ RESOLUTION along with 60% of House Dems (ML Gephardt -and- Rep. Hoyer both voted Yea). She voted against the second supplemental (after the veto) -- ML Leader Hoyer voted Yea. She did not support the omnibus bill at the end of the year -- Leader Hoyer did (it was to a large degree his bill).
Being part of the "reality-based community" requires an interest in FACTS, not slanders.
MCMetal @ 52:
And if your grannie had training wheels, she'd be a trolley car.
Kucinich has ZERO possibility of being chosen Speaker.
Leslie @ 19:
No. Qwest Communications legal department saw that the request was illegal and unconstitutional, and refused. Subsequently, Qwest was investigated for some "unfair competitive practices" and is currently being persecuted on some other matter. If AT&T gets immunity, so should Qwest. Otherwise you're rewarding the lawbreakers.
Richard Peterson,
Qwest doesn't service NYC.
Paul in LA @ 54:
The "reality" is that Kucinich rightfully has been pushing for the ouster of Chimpy and Cheney , and has been opposed to (and way more vocal than) , the Speaker of the House who is supposed to be a LEADER, in opposition to the Iraq war.
Part of the "reality-based community" requires an interest in speaking truth to power and being unafraid of the consequences , especially keeping your job , not spouting everything you can think of to extoll the virtues of someone you support for whatever reason.........
Paul in LA @ 55:
Because the Dems are conditioned to be weak and spinless by "leaders" like Pelosi and Reid...........
Richard Peterson @ 56:
That was five years ago. There is NO EVIDENCE that Qwest is not cooperating in full TODAY with the NSA.
It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that they are not; and if they are not, it is moot because their lines undoubtedly go through the switches of the ones who we know do.
MCMetal @ 59:
See? The Scapegoating is SO much easier.
Kucinich has no chance of becoming Speaker because he doesn't have the votes. Whose fault is that? HIS.
He doesn't work very hard, this Rep. Kucinich. He takes outlier positions, and primps himself on being pure. That's HIS history and doing, not the Speaker's. Compare their legislative histories some time. Do some research. Or just scapegoat and feel justified.
MCMetal @ 58:
She is that leader, and is compared to Hoyer especially.
In your world, there are no Republicans. That's cool -- there aren't any in Kucinich's world either. How many Republicans did Rep. Kucinich get to support his impeachment bill against Cheney? ZERO.
There are R who would support impeachment of Cheney, but Rep. Kucinich is not willing to work hard enough to get their support. It's terribly easy to file a bill of impeachment, but the task is quite a bit bigger than simply writing it down on a hot potato and tossing it into Conyers' lap.
Regarding FISA, Pelosi tried to prevent the Senate bill from reaching the House floor for a vote.
Leslie @ 63:
This should have been in the bag. The three committee chairs against Rockefeller, in the conference committee. But the R are boycotting the conference committee, and the DLC is busy making deals with the devil, as is their wont.
That it is taking this long to screw us on this point is mostly due to Conyers and Leahy (and Pelosi) working at trying to slow down yet another Bushco victory in the crooked Congress.
ChrisM70 @ 2:
Everyday Americans = screwed....and still insisting that they need to keep their hands on their knees 'til November, instead of their fists in the air NOW!
Paul in LA,
That's why I commented earlier that the primary reason the FISA bill has been stalled successfully this long is because the public started screaming about it. We need to do a lot more screaming.
In other words, opposition from Pelosi, Conyers, Leahy, Dodd, Feingold, etc. isn't enough to stop the FISA bill.
I agree with you, Leslie, you are correct. But the lure of scapegoating is so powerful, that the lazy just can't stop it.
The ones who bark the loudest about doom and the Democratic party being the problem are the same ones who have never done a tap for a better political arrangement.
Quite a few of these regular scapegoaters are in REPUBLICAN districts.
Somehow that never comes up.
Paul in LA @ 61:
Stick to your guns and don't back down , like Kucinich does ; not claim you want/need to work together on a "compromise" and just capitulate.
The Dems do that constantly , no matter how many plaudits you want to insist on giving Pelosi
Paul in LA @ 39:
Paul in LA @ 39:
call me what you want, you won't hurt my feelings. i participate in all the petitions i find will support the Constitution and laws of our country. i express my opinions like yourself on many of the blogs, sometimes civil and sometimes not. the opinions i express are
my own and don't require any justification to you or anyone else. if this bothers you, than that is your problem not mine.
MCMetal @ 69:
Be ineffectual, like Kucinich, stay pure.
Congress IS compromise. If you are incapable of making deals, you cannot be effective. In some cases, you couldn't be effective anyhow, but failing to compromise in order to bring the body together (or at least sufficient votes to DO something) is equivalent to ALWAYS being ineffective.
Paul in LA @ 24:
Pelosi, who is married to investor Paul Pelosi, has amassed a large portfolio of jointly owned real estate, including three properties in the Napa Valley. They sold an 8-acre vineyard on Skellenger Lane in Rutherford last year for $1 million to $5 million, according to her disclosure form.
Paul Pelosi's holdings include a four-story commercial building on Belden Place in San Francisco, a retail and office building on Sir Francis Drake Boulevard in San Anselmo and an ownership stake in the Auberge du Soleil resort in Napa Valley valued at $1 million to $5 million. He also has millions of dollars of shares in publicly traded companies such as Microsoft, Amazon. com and AT&T.
Um.....corrupt or not....owning shares in AT&T, and there is no conflict of interest? I think not.
dadams @ 70:
WHO do you send to Congress? It's a fair question.
My representative is Diane Watson, one of our best Progressives. My Senators are Boxer and Feinstain -- I have worked to replace Feinstain for years, but CA Senators are VERY hard to remove.
Paul in LA @ 29:
ConcernedCanuck @ 72:
You quote the same phrase, quoted off the Internet without any factual basis.
He is a stock trader. Given Speaker Pelosi's consistent opposition to telecom immunity, you have ZERO basis for asserting that badly-conceived slander.
Paul in LA @ 71:
A "compromise" is when both sides give ; that hasn't happened , EVER , with Pelosi at the helm in dealing with Shrub and Co.
Chimpy is a documented criminal , and Pelosi acts as though she's thrilled whenever she has to mmet with him.
And the State of the Union address was ridiculous ; why the hell is she applauding . much less giving that mindless lying sack of shit a standing ovation at times ?
Out of courtesy ?
People that deserve courtesy are the same that deserve respect ; it is earned.
Something Chimpy has never done in his miserable , pathetic existence.........
MCMetal @ 76:
It's hard for non-compromisers to understand, but the Speaker's PRIMARY job is to uphold the Comity of the House.
Scapegoaters look at her and see all the evil they carry over from everyone else.
Paul in LA @ 73:
See, Leslie? It's a dial tone as soon as you ask them the JFK Question.
OpenSecrets.org ranks the top 20 members of the House who receive telephone utility contributions, and Pelosi isn't on the list. But Hoyer is -- #9 with $15,000 for 2008.
All you democrats make me sick. "Vote for us we will change the world!" Whatever - same shit different title. Democrats won't impeach Bush/Cheney for killing millions, spying on Americans, or any of the illegal shit they have taken part in over the past 8 years, and now that the democrats have control, it's the same shit different day in Washington. When will the American wake up and vote for REAL CHANGE in this country. I was going to vote for a democrat (like an idiot), but now I am glad Nader is back in the race. I'm voting 3rd party for the rest of my life, and hopefully the American people wake up and send a real message to the politicians in Washington for once by putting a third party candidate in office. I'm tired of getting the same old form letters from our senators here in California. We need a real change, instead of replacing one puppet with another.
good stuff
this is a wonderful display of true patriotism.
Nancy needs to go. Apparently 20 years is long enough.
Paul in LA @ 75:
Excuse me? You are the one pulling crap out of your ass here Paul. IT IS PROVEN because they have to disclose their financial records. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it so. Oh I hear Charles Manson is running with a D beside his name this fall, are you voting for him?
Paul in LA @ 77:
The "Comity" of the House is to oversee the Executive branch and make sure that power is not abused/misused ; how has that been going ?
Leslie @ 79:
But why would she need contributions if her family owns shares?
ConcernedCanuck,
If you read the rest of San Francisco article you cite, at the bottom, it gives you an idea of Paul Pelosi's major holdings and they don't say how much stock he owns in AT&T.
Regarding Pelosi's record on FISA, I need to do more research. But so far, I believe she's been fighting it against an overwhelming tide.
My big complaint against Pelosi has been her stand on impeachment.
Paul in LA @ 73:
you are a gamester. patty murray, maria cantwell
i am very unhappy with the direction congress is going. the gop blocking everything is
one problem, but those dems who cave to the president are just as guilty of destroying
the Constituition.
Leslie @ 86:
AT&T Inc
PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates
2008 Cycle
Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA) $5,000
AT&T Inc
PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates
2006 Cycle
Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA) $5,000
BellSouth Corp
PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates
2006 Cycle
Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA) $1,000
Seems they donate to Nancy as well.
ConcernedCanuck,
I was looking for that info and didn't find it. Thanks!
Yeah, the Pelosis own some telecom stock, and the telecoms also contribute to her through PACs. But how is PAC money distributed -- to all Federal candidates?
I need to look up her voting record, etc. Her blog, The Gavel, had some news on the FISA bills and, based on that, it indicates she's been working with Conyers against it.
L.A. Confidential @ 8:
nice table in pics 5 and 6
MCMetal @ 84:
The Comity of the House is not oversight. You confuse issues, no wonder you are so pissed off at the wrong people.
Leslie @ 89:
The 'Canuck' is busy with his defeatist onlooking. He really doesn't care about the facts -- he has already made up his mind.
Pelosi has not received large amounts from A,T&T, ever. Her support is mainly from unions, and from Occidental Petroleum.
1 Occidental Petroleum $ 17,000
2 Kleiner, Perkins et al $ 16,700
3 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $ 15,000
3 Sheet Metal Workers Union $ 15,000
5 Time Warner $ 13,200
Looking around to find a good slander against a loyal Democrat is the work of idiots with nothing better to do.
Paul in LA @ 77:
Sorry but the Speaker's primary job is the job that their electorate voted them into office to do (likewise the oath of office upholding the Constitution), the 'Speaker' job comes second.
dadams @ 87:
ferrofluid @ 93:
That's absurd. The Speaker's job is to maintain the Comity of the House. That's why she doesn't just wave her middle finger into the POTUS's face when he comes to the House.
Here's a clue: If you don't like someone, everything they do will piss you off. To blame the Speaker for offering moderate applause for the few things Bush said that were at all sane is HILARIOUS.
Paul in LA @ 95:
No matter what fancy inhouse title a Rep or Senator has for admin purposes, their primary duty is the electorate.
A little matter of "we the people"
Comity has more to do with international relations, not bowing and scraping to the illegal godhood of the president.
Observe the gradient:
Pelosi (lifetime donations):
Individual contributions $3,917,476 (45%)
PAC contributions $4,154,209 (48%)
PAC Contribution Breakdown:
Business $2,377,632 (54.0%)
Labor $1,700,850 (38.6%
Hoyer (lifetime donations):
Individual contributions $5,325,238 (33%)
PAC contributions $9,645,075 (60%)
PAC Contribution Breakdown:
Business $6,301,556 (68.6%)
Labor $2,398,358 (26.1%)
Boehner (lifetime donations):
Individual contributions $6,068,798 (45%)
PAC contributions $6,445,619 (48%)
PAC Contribution Breakdown:
Business $6,214,504 (94.3%)
Labor $169,175 (2.6%)
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allsummary.asp?cid=N00007360 (Pelosi)
ferrofluid @ 97:
No, the Comity of the House has to do with honoring the members (deserved or not), maintaining the rules, and upholding the spirit of Congress.
Bush, traitor that he is, is the POTUS. The Speaker is required to treat his OFFICE with respect. That doesn't make her a member of Bushco or her slight actions of courtesy some sort of betrayal of the Constitution.
anyone with a link to the photo of a sportswear clad woman lounging on a billboard with the nike swoosh held at her throat is my hero of the year :)
Paul in LA @ 99:
Isnt Comity reciprocal, therefore if the POTUS treats Congress with disrespect, the Congressional gloves come off and something is then on the table.
ferrofluid @ 101 "Isnt Comity reciprocal,"
No, it is a matter of the comportment of the House.
"therefore if the POTUS treats Congress with disrespect, the Congressional gloves come off and something is then on the table."
We have 20-30 votes for conviction in the Senate. We need SIXTY-SEVEN to 'take those gloves off.' Those votes JUST AIN'T THERE.
To blame the House and the Speaker on that situation in the Senate is delusional.
Paul in LA @ 91:
Comity of the House is more than simply being nice to one another.There must also be standards of behavior and norms.Courtesy is more than just an external veneer.It symbolizes respect for other people and the recognition that alternative views are legitimate.Reciprocity offers the promise of fair exchange and the keeping of promises.
Reciprocity is arguably even more central to comity than courtesy.
That Chimpy and Co have exhibited neither , and that you're still laughably attempting to defend Pelosi for her willingness to give into anything and everything this garbage president and administration DEMAND , reveals a naivete' and a worship of a public official that simply does not deserve it ; similar to those who attempt to glorify Chimpy's entire godawful presidency..............
Paul in LA @ 102:
thats ok then, thanks for clearing up my delusion, now we can all go back to sleep and forget anything nasty has (never) happened
MCMetal @ 103:
Which mischaracterizes Pelosi's work last year almost entirely.
• No further supplementals after he vetoed the April one with withdrawal plans.
• No cave-in on SCHIP, social security, EPA, drilling ANWR, immigration issues, and the rest of Bushco's domestic program. NO cave-in on telecom immunity.
• Heavy oversight leading to the resignation of both Rove and Gonzales.
• NO attack on Iran.
• No surrender to EASY path of approving what was guaranteed to be a failed impeachment effort.
Think about it -- Pelosi could have washed her hands, and sent the impeachment forward, where Bush & Cheney would have survived, easily, and had a mandate to completely ignore the Dem Congress, leading to a massive attack on Iran already.
Paul in LA @ 92:
I noticed she has union support. Amazing for a person that owns pretty big NON UNIONIZED businesses. Just sayin'.........oh and Charles Manson is running for the Dems in November and would like your support
Paul in LA @ 105:
Hahahahahaha........sorry........hahahahhahahaha........you are ACTUALLY serious?? Come clean....is this you Pelosi? Oh and Charlie Mason thanks you for the support this fall on the Democratic ticket.
Paul in LA @ 105:
Mandate !!!!! thats would be unconstitutional, treasonous and dictatorial, we three equal branches of government to counter and balance the whole btw.
Mandate !!!!! in what alt universe does the American political system have such a thing !!???
that would be unconstitutional, treasonous and dictatorial, we supposedly have three equal branches of government to counter and balance the whole btw.
ferrofluid @ 109:
Disney land, Disney World, and Magic Kingdom I believe
Paul in LA @ 73:
Feinstein and Boxer represent Louisiana?
Paul in LA @ 105:
- Michael Mukasey now the new Attorney General
- We continue to be in Iraq , illegally , and unless Clinton or Obama win in November , we will be there for at least another decade
- Those who had the least and lost the most during Katrina (who are still alive) , are still not being helped
-Where's our deficit now ?
fiver @ 111:
No , La-La Land , which is where this Paul character obviously lives.........
There is a potential blot on the record, the proceedings against Meirs and Bolton,
shock and horror if this goes ahead and things get revealed, quiet resignations and under the carpet much more Comityful.
If you don't understand the concept of a 'mandate' -- real or claimed -- then what am I supposed to say about that?
Iran was not attacked last year. Originally, Bushco planned a nuclear attack. Then that was ruled out by the Joint Chiefs. then Bushco planned carpet bombing -- that was ruled out by DoD Sec Gates. A skirmish with the Iranian Guard didn't produce the cassus belli earlier this year, and now with the pending removal of the head of CENTCOM (who opposes an attack on Iran), it is likely to go forward as a scaled back cruise missile attack.
The Congress may be able to stop even that, or keep it scaled back, but there is a very good argument for noting that a FAILED conviction in a Senate impeachment trial would have functioned as a mandate.
I still think Cheney can be safely impeached (I don't think he can be convicted, obviously). I --hope-- that Rep. Kucinich doesn't file on Bush, because that will kill both actions. WHEN he does do that, your applause will be for his confession of weakness. If he doesn't, then public anger can still move the Cheney impeachment, if people will do the work. And I think such an impeachment will allow for the induction of a great amount of crime evidence into the public record. I believe we should ALL work toward that with great energy.
But, easier than that, is to scapegoat the Speaker. Blame her -- that way you don't have to do any work.
MCMetal @ 113:
I love that ancient Republican bigotry coming from someone claiming to be on our side.
L.A. Confidential @ 20:
MCMetal @ 112 "Michael Mukasey now the new Attorney General"
Part of your continued confusion of the House for THE SENATE. Pelosi had ZERO to do with Mukasey's approval. But, in defense of that, it is better to have an AG than not to. Most of the federal gov't is being run by asst-chiefs. There is almost no top management left. Having an AG means the DoD can be pressured -- without that, there is no possibility of pressure, because no one has the authority to respond.
"- We continue to be in Iraq , illegally , and unless Clinton or Obama win in November , we will be there for at least another decade"
And also perhaps if Pelosi is removed as Speaker (since Hoyer voted in favor of the IR, in favor of the second supplemental, and sponsored the omnibus bill blowout -- actions all opposed by Pelosi).
"- Those who had the least and lost the most during Katrina (who are still alive) , are still not being helped"
The second supplemental contained Katrina funding, along with minimum wage relief. That was Pelosi's doing. And House committees did considerable oversight into the FEMA trailers and into other aspects of that great disaster.
Nancy Pelosi is not a perfect person like all of you. But she has done more for her country than you stiffs could do in five lifetimes.
Paul in LA @ 115:
Pardon me if I am wrong, woundnt that be an act of aggression and open warfare breaking a few UN rules in the process.
Dropping a few bombs on Somalia which prob has no central government worth talking of is one thing,
attacking a large country which is generally minding its own business is another.
Responding to an act of Iranian agression could be used as an excuse for retaliating, but it would have to be a large visible attack on their part, petty arms smuggling coundnt be used as an excuse for preemptive strikes in the court of world opinion.
Paul in LA @ 118:
which is all very wonderful, HAIL NANCY, but nothing removes the fact that she was voted into her Senate seat by her electorate, to work for them and said her oath of office to uphold the Constitution, same as the other Congresscritters.
Senators and moneyed families in the US do not count as nobility, and theres no such thing as royalty in a democratic constitutional republic.
They are merely doing a job which they get paid to do, its not 'noblesse oblige' unless you count Federal as nobility and a ruling class.
Paul in LA @ 116:
Correctly pointing out that you live in a fantasy world of your own idiotic making makes me a "bigot" how , shitstain ?
Paul in LA @ 77:
I thought her first sworn duty was to uphold the constitution. Seeing how she took the "I" word off the table, she is derelict in her defense of the constitution. Not only has she failed to investigate what is almost certainly criminal behavior on the part of Chimpy, but now she is allowing the criminals to write their own get out of jail free card.
Furthermore, how is it that the repuke's can get elected majority leaders with only 46% of the vote, and then manage to shove a giant pile of corporate fascist shit down everybodies throat for years. Meanwhile, the democrats cannot stop one odious piece of legislation, even when they have a 30 seat majority, and the support of the people against the most dispised president in U.S.history. There is no way in hell McConnell or Delay would let any shit pass that they didn't approve of. Especially something of such importance to their base.
fiver @ 1:
When I was a kid and we were getting bored of fishing I'd take off the bobber, put the biggest night crawler I had on the hook, sink it to the bottom, then leave for a while. When I came back there was almost always a catfish on my line.
Sorry Paul, but I just couldn't resist. How are you? Hope everything is well.
Pelosi may be a fantastic leader and a genuine progressive, but she has shown neither as Speaker. She not only fully funded Bush's War, but she made sure that the final round of funding was done quietly, cowardly, and as much in the dark as possible. She not only didn't make a stink, she didn't even make a peep.
Your defense of her gratuitous "off the table" protection of Bush didn't hold up before, and after a year it works even less. The House has been following an essentially Republican agenda for over a year. The excuse that Pelosi didn't want impeachment to get in the way of more important business is, um, confusing. Would it have gotten in the way of the resolution censuring MoveOn? Could it have interfered with the House's resolving that "Christians are Wonderful"? The progressive accomplishments of this Congress are far too few and far too weak to claim that impeachment would have interfered with more important matters.
Moreover, Pelosi has effectively removed the threat of a crucial congressional check on a criminal president. You raise the highly speculative specter of a Bush suddenly immune to impeachment after winning a trial in the Senate, yet Pelosi has single-handedly given him that exact immunity - on her own authority and for no readily apparent reason. That is in dereliction of her duty and has prevented other members of Congress from doing theirs.
She has used all the power at her disposal to effective protect Bush. Let's see how much she uses to protect the public from criminal telecom giants. My guess is she won't even make a peep, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
Paul in LA @ 118:
The only one "confused" is your arrogant ass , which delusionally believes in your non-existent mental superiority , skid mark.
I do not have the House and Senate confused ; in fact , I guarantee I know a lot more about both than your condescending stupid ass does.
You were extolling the resignation of Speedy as one of Ms Pelosi's virtues/accomplishments ; how has anything changed at all with Mukasey as the new AG , genius ?
It's time for Ms Pelosi to push to cut off funding for Iraq ; 75% of all Americans wants it , and it's the RIGHT THING TO DO.
Then those in New Orleans can be taken care of properly as they should have been all along.............
oops - effectively
Majority leader and all that, with influence in the whips office, oops no more DNC, DLC etc money for Democrat Senators that wont toe the party line on upcoming Impeachment proceedings, then watch them vote instep.
Paul in LA @ 60:
Thanks for quoting me Paul. I'd like to point out that there is NO EVIDENCE that Qwest is participating in the Spy On Merka(TM) program. They held out until 2006 when the story broke. Then the lawsuits were filed. Considering Qwest's significant debt, it would be a really bad idea for management to then go ahead and participate, which would expose them to liabilities that could be substantial in the (admittedly) small chance that amnesty doesn't get through. (It's obvious whose country this is... maybe this country should adopt this for its flag:
http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/overheard/files/2007/11/att_lo...)
In addition to all that, I'm sure someone would leak this, as a number of att and vz employees have done (many are still anonymous; Mark Klein, who must have gigantic cojones, went public).
Yes you are (I was) right, that any call that is switched through another carrier's facility is going to be tapped. This will happen if one customer is a Qwest Wireless customer since Qwest doesn't own any cell towers and uses Sprint's towers to provide wireless service (some previous USW CEO sold USW mobile... idiot). I'd suspect it would be relatively uncommon on landline-to-landline calls in Qwest's 14-state local service territory considering Qwest's significant fiber optic network.
P.S. Pelosi is the greatest Speaker in the history of the country.
Makes a great desktop background.
Great billboard.
Oh by the way, Billboard Liberation Front: You guys are fucking brilliant! Bravo!
Apologies, this has already been said above but ...
Too bad that most of our hillbilly nation doesn't know what the NSA headquarters are. So while its a great gag, nobody will get it except those who are already pissed about it.
Where to the Predidential candidates stand on telecom immunity?
Is it political smack talk or do they really what to stand up for Justice and bring the monopoly's to court?! Where's the spine in these two democratic candidates on this one?
ferrofluid @ 120:
Wrong on both counts. She was voted into her HOUSE seat by her electorate in SF, and was chosen for the Speaker's role by the Democratic House caucus.
fiver @ 123:
Both claims are false. She voted for the first supplemental (with withdrawal requirements), did not vote for the second supplemental after the veto (though she did help get Katrina relief and minimum wage increase into that bill first), and she opposed the omnibus blowout, for whom you have Steny Hoyer and the DLC, along with the Blue Dogs and the Republicans, to thank.
MCMetal @ 124:
The removal of Gonzales stands on its own as an accomplishment.
As with all these problems, the Senate failed you. But it is better to have an AG than not to, so it's a negative with some positive.
Love how you have now turned from deriding Los Angeles (where C&L is originated, btw), to slinging name-calling.
YOUR Representative is who? Who exactly do you send to DC to work with the Speaker?
(dialtone...a Republican no doubt).
Chris @ 127:
What evidence is there that they 'held out' anything like that long.
With a secret spying program, there is not likely to be evidence. The only reason why there is evidence is because of whistleblowers. It is highly unlikely that the replacement CEO of Qwest held off the secret presidential order and the whole power of the ruthless Bushco conspiracy. Even if they did, their lines probably go through those switches anyhow.
I wonder why people are so busy trying -- in absence of evidence -- to claim that Qwest is doing the right thing and Bushco is just cowering in their chairs at their righteousness.
Paul in LA @ 135:
You respond 2 fucking hours later and wonder why no one is readily available to reply , you coward ?
And no ; removing Hitler for Stalin as his replacement is not something that "stands as its own accomplishment" , you delusional dickhead.
As for "making fun of L.A." ; who did that ?
I was making fun of your moronic ass , not Los Angeles itself or the population there.
As for my reps , they are Senators Lautenberg and Menendez (who both VOTED AGAINST TELECOM IMMUNITY , unlike your 2 Senators , putz) , and Steven R. Rothman ; any time you feel the need , please inform me when Rothman changed his political party affiliation from Dem to the GOP , douchebag.
Done making a complete jackass out of yourself yet ?
.
A letter I wrote to Wexler many moons ago...
And now I add,
Since when are patriotic acts, acts that need immunization from the prosecution of law?
One of the defining characteristics to what it means to be an American, is the freedom from a form of Government that needs to spy on it’s own people; FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY. Thus The Fourth Amendment.
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS…
And so, THEY(sic) lobby and debate the merits to undermining that characteristic, that freedom, that Right? When Americans and America lose that Right and freedom, who wins?
Who wins when the Commander in Chief, aided by Congress, surrender those freedoms?
.
MCMetal @ 137:
You respond 2 fucking hours later and wonder why no one is readily available to reply , you coward ?
How charitable of you to jump to that conclusion. I had to go out for my Wednesday street protest, so now I'm back. I didn't know you would miss me so much, but duty called.
"As for my reps , they are Senators Lautenberg and Menendez (who both VOTED AGAINST TELECOM IMMUNITY , unlike your 2 Senators , putz)"
You're lying. Senator Boxer voted FOR the Dodd Amendment, along with 30 other Senate Democrats, which wished:
"To strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government."
http://whazgoinon.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/senators-that-voted-to-allow-...
Sixty-seven voted NAY, and that's all she wrote. You're blaming the wrong people, including me.
Very easily, considering this is now openly a fascist state. The US senate is indistinguishable from the roman senate under the Caesars.
My comment in the petition:
Everybody in the house who sells out the country and its People on this bill needs to lose their seats this November.
One of my senators, who was supported by Blue America in 2006, sold us out. He's going to be a one term wonder.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080306-whistleblower-cellular-car...
Leslie @ 19:
Actually QWEST said no , get us a warrant. until then we won't play..unfortunately we cannot get Qwest here we are on Embarq (Sprint) . our internet and tv are satellite and as far as I know they didn't get to tap into EchoStar, but we were on Time/Warner and AT&T while we lived elsewhere :(
It feels like de ja vu and we are in the old soviet block. I have a pretty good idea they were as we lived in the building that some of the 9/11 hijackers lived in, though we did not know anything untoward was going on. The usual line applies here "they seemed like nice folks" We moved away before 9/11 but have had our home searched while we were out , that was in 2004 when I raised hell about the likely hood of election theft , we also witnessed it firsthand while we lived in Broward county. There could not have been a recount, as the ballots were shredded before there was even a first count.
I think it is maybe time for a new government with a Parlement, that way there can be various parties and they will have to cooperate to get anything done and no one party can hog like the rpugs did.
With Public Campaign funding, to take corporate influence down or at least limit their power over the affairs of the government, I would really like to see those lobbyists on a bread line!
Paul in LA @ 139:
Remember this : "YOUR Representative is who? Who exactly do you send to DC to work with the Speaker?
(dialtone…a Republican no doubt)."
Gee , I wonder what jackasses post I pulled that from ? You're trying to claim some sort of "duty" pulled you away ; you're the only one posting here with responsibilities/things to do ?
Get over yourself already.
And you were "missed" by me , as one misses jock itch .............
BTW Who's "lying" ?
Does Ms Boxer get to vote twice for the great state of California ?
Did BOTH your senators vote AGAINST TELECOM IMMUNITY , like mine did ?
Yeah , I didn't think so................You remind me of every GOP tool I've ever encountered ; always believing themself to be the most gifted and intelligent , when they're among the least in both categories.
MCMetal @ 145:
Paul in LA @ 146:
Re: Spying on any of you on your telephones would yield nothing as you can see from the posts. If you are not a criminal who cares! All politics, no liberty lost here, hear?
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