what insults them ? Could Americans wearing red shoes during the Games really piss 'em off ?

...or put small stickers on the sole of our shoes depicting China's Communist Party flag or symbol . . .

Man, I hope that wasn't a Vespa they were beating down.

What is that persistent, high-pitched 'whooping' sound in the background? Sirens? Barking dogs? Some sort of rallying cry?

yes....boycott the opening and closing ceremonies, which are all pomp and circumstance

just show up for the events

the people of china are not to blame for this...its the government....

and whoever is broadcasting the ceremonies should refrain

Are You kidding? The Thugs are reviewing tapes and taking notes as We speak.

I don't watch network television because it disgusts me. Did the media in the US show any of the antiwar/occupation protests that occured yesterday? Is it similar in it's censorship? Is the only difference a communist label?

Am I missing something? The video shows the people destroying and looting private property. How is that supposed to help the Tibeten cause?

LA- I don't watch MSM. But I DID notice a big yawn from The White House and The McCain cronys. Protests stop traffic Not war.

The videos I watched on youtube show what looks like hoodlums ransacking. Am I missing something? These people are supposed to be monks or what? It looked like teens vandalizing, burning and breaking. Did I miss something somewhere?

btw, the chinese gov is as stupid as ours when it comes to the internets

chinese hackers are all over the country, watching whatever they want

and there are thousands up uploading sites online....no way can the chinese block them all

the whole world is watching

burn, baby....burn

Richard @ 7:

China isn't going to change its policies because of some embarassment at the Games

Don't be so sure. China is quite interested in the attention, and unlike Russia, China is engaged in capitalist commerce.

The part of the gov't involved in the Olympics is undoubtedly pulling its hair over the OTHER part of the gov't that is doing the hardliner stunt in Tibet.

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 20:

The videos I watched on youtube show what looks like hoodlums ransacking. Am I missing something? These people are supposed to be monks or what? It looked like teens vandalizing, burning and breaking. Did I miss something somewhere?

The thin veneer of civilization disappears quickly when people are put into a life survival state.

L.A. Confidential @ 13:

Anti-war protests took place across the nation Wednesday. Notice the MSM coverage?

Moot to the actual people present for the protests, the drivers going by, the pedestrians, their children, the cops, the gov't officials who drive by, the visiting foreigners who witness the protest, etc.

Notice you again spreading the anti-protest message.

I saw the video. That's what rioting looks like. Yup. And if that happened in the US, lets say Texas, the National Guard would be sent in. It's historical amnesia that's the real problem.

31 L.A. Confidential

Perhaps Osama BinHidin will scare Wall Street back into the bull markets and reverse the economic downturn? Maybe somebody should tell Bush/Cheney that it prob won't work.

Youtube was down for quite a few hours where I live. Coinkydink?

L.A. Confidential @ 26:

The thin veneer of civilization disappears quickly when people are put into a life survival state.

Did you think that Tibetans don't have an angry youth who are NOT monks? The Chinese shopkeepers who were burned out were also victims.

This is not the first or the last Tibetan repression. Since Tibet is the border against nuclear-armed India and nuclear-armed Pakistan in the neighborhood, the situation in Tibet is intractable.

The Olympics is as much about money as sport. The folks who need to boycott the thing are the international spectators. Let the athletes compete and win their medals, in empty arenas. They get the gold. China gets a black eye.

I don't feel that the athletes should have to boycott, because they worked their whole lives for the Olympics. It is the IOC's fault that Beijing was awarded the Olympics.

I will boycott the Olympics. I will be unplugging the TV from the beginning until the end. I won't watch one minute of coverage on TV. The Olympics is now more corporate than ever and I would suggest individuals boycott their TV's and put pressure on the sponsors, not the athletes.

John West @ 38:

The Olympics is as much about money as sport. The folks who need to boycott the thing are the international spectators. Let the athletes compete and win their medals, in empty arenas. They get the gold. China gets a black eye.

curtis said the most pertinent comment I've read in a long while.

The Olympics Games should be moved permanently to Greece, where they belong.

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 34-

Youtube was down for quite a few hours where I live. Coinkydink?

Yes, coinkydink. YouTube is constantly down for a few hours. Here's what it says right now:

YouTube will be undergoing scheduled maintenance, starting around 7:00 pm PDT.

Gary- Please don't make the mistake of equating the US 'government' with US The People . USA government has 'no moral authority', the USA people certainly do.

Fix or repair daily= FORD

LA- Ain't THAT da trut.

OT I know,BUT.I've said for years that if people bought their computers like they bought cars none of this Microsoft shit would exist. It's bullshit to have to be slaves to such garbage.

And On Topic. I don't know why Anyone is 'outraged' at China clamping down on unrest. I guess most people here weren't alive or aware when In the middle of the Chinese capitol the army rode down protesters with tanks way back in the 80's It's Thugs dealing in a Thug way. Get used to the visuals.

Shit, the Olympics are a fraud anyway. You can stick your finger in the eye of the Chinese better by stopping buying their poisonous crap at WalMart. So much for Buddhist nonviolence I guess. Anybody tell Richard Gere yet?

China has done and is doing to Tibet what the US & Britain have done and are doing to Iraq.

"Modernization" .. "Liberation" ..

Frank Zappa: Trouble Coming Every Day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QEz6OGm6_E

I am encouraging everyone I know to boycott the China Olympics. I have always been told that their culture is very attuned to the concept of shaming, well now is the world's chance to find out. It's bad enough that I have to cull Chinese toys from the house when my kid's asleep, it galls me to support their oppression on top of all the rest of the oppression going around!

Ethnic Tibetans beating on doors and vandalizing Han Chinese businesses. Not much, but nothing compared to what happens when the Chinese leave their barracks and exact revenge. Major loss of face -- I wouldn't want to be in Lhasa a week from now.

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 57-

Ah, well I stand corrected. I’ve never came across it before today. Must be when they do a sweep for copyright infringements. LOL.

I dunno, could be that. You've gotta figure that there are enough people uploading vid there that someone is always introducing some kinda virus. But they do it constantly.

And I don't think the Chinese government gives a rat's ass if we see this or not. Are we gonna suddenly make them not the world's largest population? No one wants to fuck with a modernized China. They outnumber the US by more than 4 to 1. And think of how much of my country's debt they hold. China is the cat who swallowed the canary. It's pickin' it's teeth with the feathers. And we're watchin' it.

Tom A. @ 69:

kablooie @ 64:

I am encouraging everyone I know to boycott the China Olympics. I have always been told that their culture is very attuned to the concept of shaming, well now is the world's chance to find out. It's bad enough that I have to cull Chinese toys from the house when my kid's asleep, it galls me to support their oppression on top of all the rest of the oppression going around!

Unfortunately we (the US) have been supporting the Chinese for a long time now. Every factory that has moved there, every imported item purchased, every dollar that has flowed out of here and into China. Wait until China decides the economic crisis is ripe in the US to send their battleships to Taiwan and ask the United States, "So what you gonna do about it?" as they hold up over a trillion dollars of treasuries ready to dump on the world markets if we so much as blink.
This country lost it's way 3 decades ago, and the results are unfolding......stay tuned. It's just starting.

You want to have an impact... boycott Wallmart!

TomA- Your Taiwan scenario is quite valid. BUT How bout THIS. USA attacking Iran where China gets it's oil. Hmmmm. Perhaps We allow China to get Taiwan,while China allows Iran invasion.

China only needs 20 years or so to make it's Navy 'world class' and Then Katy bar The Door.

KC @ 71:

You people who are discounting the situation in Tibet as "thugs being dealt with properly" need to get a fucking clue. Tibetans, especially women, have been subjected to brutal, insidious oppression for 50+ years. No, you won't see Tibetans being executed in the street. I suggest you do a google search on "oppression in Tibet" and educate yourselves...what has been going on in Tibet is no less than ethnic cleansing and it's quite understandable these people have resorted to civil unrest...peaceful demonstrations are quashed by the Chinese in a heartbeat.

thank you

seconded

I for one never implied that the people in Tibet are thugs. I WAS saying that China killing protesters was Thugs acting as Thugs and WE should be more concerned about our own citizens being treated the same when OUR Thugs take over.

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 73-

Ehh...It was a softball.

I was typin' on this on the Tibet thread on Monday. China needs to store people somewhere, Tibet's been relatively empty. China shores up it's border with India, but the autocrats in Beijing still need to crack down on the Buddhists because the monks offer a counter-authority. China needs to keep everything running smoothly, most certainly right on the border with the world's second largest nation.

I expect China to move west into Kazakhstan- and all of those energy resources- in the next decade or two. Russia- now a smaller population than the US- probably won't help Kazakhstan, but they'll continue to attempt domination of Europe.

The dominoes are teetering.

I wish all you pacifist nitwits would join hands and jump off a bridge. So it's okay for the US to throw off their shackles against the British but not okay for the Tibetans to throw off their shackles? Go eat some organic soy milk and veet and shut the fuck up.

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 80-

Maybe....Chinese expansion is inevitable. Look at a topographical map, something that shows green grasslands and dry brown mountains...Most of the Chinese is locked into the fertile plains by mountains and desert...But if they move west, like the Mongols did....And the Huns before them, and all of the Gothic tribes before that.

But were our actions the catalyst? We could take all the money we've thrown away on a war for a soon to be disappeared natural resource- that would be oil- and invested it in new fuel alternatives- solar, wind and the holy grail that is fusion- and China would still be cracking down in Tibet and readying to expand further beyond it's borders. And the only thing that will stop it is China practicing Zero Population Growth methods. And that ain't happening without the rest of the world promising to do the same. And THAT ain't happening any time soon.

David Hawes @ 78:

I for one never implied that the people in Tibet are thugs. I WAS saying that China killing protesters was Thugs acting as Thugs and WE should be more concerned about our own citizens being treated the same when OUR Thugs take over.

just to clarify, when I seconded KC's remarks, definitely did not do so with any idea that they were directed at you, David Hawes

btw, DH, glad you and your wife are doing well again, and very sorry for your troubles

General_Rennenkampf @ 82:

People, people, put it in perspective! China is only doing unto Tibet what we did unto the Natives in our country....

And I have yet to hear one howl of outrage over the continuation of the American concentration camps called reservations long after the U.S. Army knocked the shit out of the Natives.

...

I bet all of you were thinking Kosovo wouldn't have any implications elsewhere, weren't you....

indeed, General, indeed

on both counts

bostongreen @ 81-

I wish all you pacifist nitwits would join hands and jump off a bridge. So it’s okay for the US to throw off their shackles against the British but not okay for the Tibetans to throw off their shackles? Go eat some organic soy milk and veet and shut the fuck up.

First, the Brits didn't outnumber the Revolutionaries by 100 to 1.

Second, the Brits weren't two or three generations ahead of the Revolutionaries in military technology.

Third, the British home territories didn't border directly on the rebellious colonies. In fact, there was no contiguous land route for British troops to march. So they relied on their navy which was

Fourth, not the Queen of the Ocean at the time- Revolutionary allies France held the distinction at the time.

Fifth, and finally, There is little to no support for the Tibetans from inside the Chinese government, while there was a large amount of sympathy for the Revolutionaries from the Whigs at Parliament in London. In fact, the brothers Howe- one the Admiral commanding the British fleet in North American waters; the other the General in command of ground forces on the N.A. continent- were both Whigs who didn't support the War Against the Revolution.

Wtf? That looks more like the video that China DOES want the world to see. Looks like a bunch of "thugs" involved in a pretty violent riot, including attacks on innocent bystanders and lots of looting and burning and mayhem. It ain't exactly a peaceful protest by innocent, spiritually enlightened beings or anything.

I mean not to go crazy but don't we call that type o' crap "terrorism" when people do it in the countries we are occupying, like Iraq and Afghanistan?

I think Tibetans should be totally free and independent too but the Tibetan people ought to decide what they want to do with their country, I don't see how violent riots by a bunch of pissed-off, whooping monks is gonna help the Tibetan people. I mean let's try to keep facts straight here at least, what was the point in posting this video along with talking about boycotting the Olympics and China's human rights abuses? It doesn't make much sense when you watch it...

General_Rennenkampf @ 86

What do you call the One Child Policy? I’m curious, if that ain’t zero population growth, please, tell me what is.

It's not that effective for a couple of reasons. First, it isn't strictly enforced everywhere, and the penalties are financial. People don't go to jail.

Oh, and the Chinese government recently stated that they're reconsidering the One Child Policy.

Even if the birth rate declines, people are living longer, so ya gotta figure that in. The marvels of modern medicine!

And in history population, iirc has never globally declined. Not even during the Black Plague epidemics(which, btw, started in the east). Up and up, right to the top of Malthus' curve....

Me upt there a few-

"in Parliament at London" I think.

And selling of untested genetically modified foodstuff.

Google will help the Chinese searching for the rioters.
Google has good “safety standards”.

David Hawes @ 78:

I for one never implied that the people in Tibet are thugs. I WAS saying that China killing protesters was Thugs acting as Thugs and WE should be more concerned about our own citizens being treated the same when OUR Thugs take over.

David, my comment was not directed at you...it was directed to the folks who mindlessly categorized the protesters as thugs or hooligans.

Now the AP is reporting that the Tibetans are STONING Chinese merchants. I mean come on. How can you try to defend this? That's just plain brutal. See below:

"Mark Robert Ward, an Australian who lives in India, recounted watching ethnic Tibetans stone Chinese merchants and hearing heavy weapons fire."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080320/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet

We have central banking in this country. Central banking is a core plank out of The Communist Manifesto!

How can you have capitalism when firms are bailed out, when there is socialized financing?
YOU are so incredibly duped. The elite LOVE people like you, because while you are thinking the country is free market capitalism, they are ruining the market from behind the scenes, and when the market is VISIBLY ruined, you blame the market!! How friggin convenient.
---Drew

I do not blame the market... I blame Reagan and his "free market, supply side economics, deregulation" bullshit.

They did this before in 1982 they "deregulated" the Savings and Loans Scandals, pulling out regulations that dated back to the Post Depression years and we saw the first big government bail out... $160 Billion Dollars of tax payer money!

And what were the causes?...

Deregulation

Although the deregulation of S&Ls gave them many of the capabilities of banks, it did not bring them under the same regulations as banks. First, thrifts could choose to be under either a state or a federal charter. Immediately after deregulation of the federally chartered thrifts, the state-chartered thrifts rushed to become federally chartered, because of the advantages associated with a federal charter. In response, states (notably, California and Texas) changed their regulations so they would be similar to the federal regulations. States changed their regulations because state regulators were paid by the thrifts they regulated, and they didn't want to lose that money.

Imprudent real estate lending

In an effort to take advantage of the real estate boom (outstanding US mortgage loans: 1976 $700bn; 1980 $1.2tn)[citation needed]and high interest rates of the late 1970s and early 1980s, many S&Ls lent far more money than was prudent, and to risky ventures which many S&Ls were not qualified to assess. L. William Seidman, former chairman of both the FDIC and the Resolution Trust Corporation, stated, "The banking problems of the '80s and '90s came primarily, but not exclusively, from unsound real estate lending." [6]

Keeping insolvent S&Ls open

Whereas insolvent banks in the United States were typically detected and shut down quickly by bank regulators, Congress sought to change regulatory rules so S&Ls would not have to acknowledge insolvency and the FHLBB would not have to close them down.

Brokered deposits

One of the most important contributors to the problem was deposit brokerage.Deposit brokers, somewhat like stockbrokers, are paid a commission by the customer to find the best certificate of deposit (CD) rates and place their customers' money in those CDs. These CDs, however, are usually short-term $100,000 CDs.[citation needed] Previously, banks and thrifts could only have five percent of their deposits be brokered deposits; the race to the bottom caused this limit to be lifted. A small one-branch thrift could then attract a large number of deposits simply by offering the highest rate. In order to make money off this expensive money, it had to lend at even higher rates, meaning that it had to make more, riskier investments. This system was made even more damaging when certain deposit brokers instituted a scam known as "linked financing." In "linked financing," a deposit broker would approach a thrift and say he would steer a large amount of deposits to that thrift if the thrift would lend certain people money (the people, however, were paid a fee to apply for the loans and told to give the loan proceeds to the deposit broker). This caused the thrifts to be tricked into taking on bad loans. Michael Milken of Drexel, Burnham and Lambert packaged brokered funds for several S&Ls on the condition that the institutions would invest in the junk bonds of his clients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_Loan_crisis

Does any of this sound vaguely familiar to you?

And what do we see that allowed the current subprime crisis to develop?

It was the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933

1933 Glass-Steagall Act creates new banking landscape

Following the Great Crash of 1929, one of every five banks in America fails. Many people, especially politicians, see market speculation engaged in by banks during the 1920s as a cause of the crash.

In 1933, Senator Carter Glass (D-Va.) and Congressman Henry Steagall (D-Ala.) introduce the historic legislation that bears their name, seeking to limit the conflicts of interest created when commercial banks are permitted to underwrite stocks or bonds. In the early part of the century, individual investors were seriously hurt by banks whose overriding interest was promoting stocks of interest and benefit to the banks, rather than to individual investors. The new law bans commercial banks from underwriting securities, forcing banks to choose between being a simple lender or an underwriter (brokerage). The act also establishes the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), insuring bank deposits, and strengthens the Federal Reserve's control over credit.

The Glass-Steagall Act passes after Ferdinand Pecora, a politically ambitious former New York City prosecutor, drums up popular support for stronger regulation by hauling bank officials in front of the Senate Banking and Currency Committee to answer for their role in the stock-market crash.

SNIP! Jump to modern day...

Oct.-Nov. 1999 Congress passes Financial Services Modernization Act

After 12 attempts in 25 years, Congress finally repeals Glass-Steagall, rewarding financial companies for more than 20 years and $300 million worth of lobbying efforts. Supporters hail the change as the long-overdue demise of a Depression-era relic.

On Oct. 21, with the House-Senate conference committee deadlocked after marathon negotiations, the main sticking point is partisan bickering over the bill's effect on the Community Reinvestment Act, which sets rules for lending to poor communities. Sandy Weill calls President Clinton in the evening to try to break the deadlock after Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, warned Citigroup lobbyist Roger Levy that Weill has to get White House moving on the bill or he would shut down the House-Senate conference. Serious negotiations resume, and a deal is announced at 2:45 a.m. on Oct. 22. Whether Weill made any difference in precipitating a deal is unclear.

On Oct. 22, Weill and John Reed issue a statement congratulating Congress and President Clinton, including 19 administration officials and lawmakers by name. The House and Senate approve a final version of the bill on Nov. 4, and Clinton signs it into law later that month.

Just days after the administration (including the Treasury Department) agrees to support the repeal, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the former co-chairman of a major Wall Street investment bank, Goldman Sachs, raises eyebrows by accepting a top job at Citigroup as Weill's chief lieutenant. The previous year, Weill had called Secretary Rubin to give him advance notice of the upcoming merger announcement. When Weill told Rubin he had some important news, the secretary reportedly quipped, "You're buying the government?"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weill/demise.html

But wait there is more...

Bush Administration invoked an obscure Banking clause 1863 to enable predatory lending practices

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis. This threat was so clear that as New York attorney general, I joined with colleagues in the other 49 states in attempting to fill the void left by the federal government. Individually, and together, state attorneys general of both parties brought litigation or entered into settlements with many subprime lenders that were engaged in predatory lending practices. Several state legislatures, including New York’s, enacted laws aimed at curbing such practices.

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.

The administration accomplished this feat through an obscure federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has been in existence since the Civil War. Its mission is to ensure the fiscal soundness of national banks. For 140 years, the OCC examined the books of national banks to make sure they were balanced, an important but uncontroversial function. But a few years ago, for the first time in its history, the OCC was used as a tool against consumers. In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/15/bush-administration-invoked-an-...

Bush used this so he could claim "We are the ownership society... more people own houses more than ever before. You have the "haves" and the "have mores." It was the illusion of wealth... built on a ticking time bomb of debt.

It is an old scam... resurrected on a much larger scale and this time the total cost is $600 Billion dollars and climbing. There are more Bear Stearns out there and Uncle Sugar has guaranteed them as well. Estimates go as high as $2.1 trillion on the amount of bad debt out there.

And why would Bush and the GOP have to take such an extreme measure? Because as Economist Paul Krugman points out:

The great divergence: Since the late 1970s the America I knew has unraveled. We’re no longer a middle-class society, in which the benefits of economic growth are widely shared: between 1979 and 2005 the real income of the median household rose only 13 percent, but the income of the richest 0.1% of Americans rose 296 percent.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/introducing-this-blog/

The income disparity is now the same as it was in the 1920s, the period of "robber baron capitalist"... the time of John Steinbeck's stories of the Salinas valley... "The Grapes of Wrath" and "Of Mice and Men."

So pardon me if I tell you... "Deregulated" capitalism was tried before and it doesn't work and it carves it's profits... it's "pound of Flesh" in the most accurate of Shylock terms out of human misery and suffering.

And that sir is why you are not only "pond scum"... but "inhumanly stupid pond scum" at that!

I know EXACTLY what we and all the Olympic participants and countries can do to protest the oppression WITHOUT boycotting the Olympics!
It's VERY simple...
As Dread Pirate above notes, the Chinese are very concerned about controlling the propaganda.
Soooo the simplest and greatest solution to a closed and censured society is to

have COMPLETE and OPEN Internet Access available throughout the Olympic Event!
Massive Wireless broadcasting units that allow anyone to connect and get open un-censured view of the rest of the world!

What are they going to say?
That FREE countries coming together cant have open connections in an Open Olympic event?
HA! F@#k them. The world is open, and it's time they got used to it. Old ideologies of dictatorship, fascism, and Imperial tyrants, are over!
I think it's it's simple, to the point, and doable.

Although I am not supportive of China's history with Tibet we must be mindful that the Dalai's are using China's upcoming Olympic event as leverage for their own political agenda. They know China's response will be severe. The more severe, the more of a humanitarian crises that is created the more world opinion will weigh down on China give Tibet independence. The Dalai leadership know they are putting their people at risk, but it is apparently worth the sacrifice. Be mindful of this as things continue to unfold. Lastly, pay very close attention to the world media. Remember, most major media centers are used for political means as well. Don't believe everything you read (or see) from these news sources. There is almost always something biased or out-right lies in their reporting of events. See links.

http://www.westca.com/News/article/sid=70326/lang=schinese.html
http://www.westca.com/News/article/sid=70326/page=2/lang=schinese.html
http://www.westca.com/News/article/sid=70326/page=3/lang=schinese.html

My thoughts are supported by many Chinese people I know currently living in China. All though the media in China is highly controlled, most people know what is going on through other pathways of information.

I'm boycotting American participation because of the insult to China when the American team decided to have it's own food sent in. You've got to be kidding me...if I were to go to China I wouldn't want to miss out on the great cuisine. Oh by the way the beef that was from the sick cows.... that was American. I don't know much about the Tibetan struggle but I'm learning a great deal about Chinese history. I'm mostly offended by our American educational system not providing an accurate and detailed history of China's rich cultural contribution to the world.

I'd like to see the video, but my System Administrator has deemed that all things YouTube are subversive. Can this be converted to windows Media or Quicktime?

@ Rasputin-

Its pretty annoying to keep hearing the blame being put on capitalism for this country's economic woes when its pretty clear that there IS no free-market capitalism in this country due to the very existence of the Federal Reserve bank and its constant bailouts for poorly run financial instituions. The rise of the military industrial complex, the drug industry, are not examples of the free market out of control since government involvement is the reason for their success. The fact that you can blame also Bush for the economy shows that its obviously not a free-market society.

Completely ignoring the actions of the Federal Reserve bank, congressional spending, and monetary policy is why these problems will continue- putting all the blame on "deregulation" is seriously oversimplifying the issue.(And these problems would have continued even if there was more government oversight)

Just to give some perspective: What you see Tibetans destroying is are Chinese shops that have sprung up at an incredible pace in the last 7 years or so. Not that Chinese immigrants/shops are anything new in Lhasa, but the city has undergone an extremely rapid change recently, a kind of "facelift" combined with a fake economy that has put glitzy shopping malls, chain stores, "ethnic" trinket stores, fancy electronic stores etc. right in the heart of the Tibetan neighborhood, dramatically altering its character and making a bold statement that "this town/economy is now Chinese." The avenue leading to Tibet's main temple is lined with plastic light-up palm trees, dancing-water fountain displays, washing-machine and electronics stores, and so forth. The glib message behind this is "look what we have given to Tibet, Tibet is modern and happy, look at the incredible progress." The development is so one-sided and inappropriate that it is shocking to even foreign visitors. Now, imagine watching this happen at great speed after enduring 50 years of humiliation and colonialization. Combine that with serious racial tension/hostility. So, this is in part why you see Chinese stores being attacked. Indeed it is looting, but it is much more, as everyone sees it as an attack against the very rapid pace of colonialism.

Well, I thought that Chinese government would love to see this video if they have not gotten to show it already on TV, since that proves exactly as they said:
Tibatans beat people
they set fire
they destroy property
They don't look at all as if they were anticipating or escaping gun shots. Rather the crowd behaved as if there is no danger in sight.
how brutal this proves the Chinese government! I am very confused.
On the other hand, just imagine showing this for Chinese youth this and they will get outraged and then retribution will likely be launched to Tibatans? Or I get it, this is the purpose, they block the youtube access in order to save themselves and future retribution for Tibatans. Wait, that should not be right for a supposed very brutal government. Still confused

I think Tibetans should be totally free and independent too but the Tibetan people ought to decide what they want to do with their country, I don't see how violent riots by a bunch of pissed-off, whooping monks is gonna help the Tibetan people. I mean let's try to keep facts straight here at least, what was the point in posting this video along with talking about boycotting the Olympics and China's human rights abuses? It doesn't make much sense when you watch it...

said Steve Peterson First, they are not all Monks, and you'll notice the Monks that are rioting are young: In Asia many families send their children to monastary's because they are poor & it is an honorable alternative. I Laos I met young monks with gang tattoos! But they ARE rioting against CHINESE owned businesses...Wonder why? read on 4 my view.

"Ought to decide...?"...They are the oppressed minority in their own land. The Han Chinese look down on them and the government starves, tortures, & enslaves them. How can they decide? I agree this footage plays into the government' s position, but one point of showing it here is to show how angry these people are. The Chinese are destroying the Tibetan people, using Tibet as a population relief valve & for its resources: Han Chinese are filling up the country. Many Han view Tibetans, Mongolians, etc as inferior "races".

I traveled in China extensively for a year -beautiful country in places, terrific people everywhere, but ON THE WHOLE, the average Han Chinese person made Americans look like Canadians. The crowding, consumerism, cultural egoism, along with a corrupt economic & political system reflect in an ugly people overall. Lots of history, a country on the move & a HUGE place = a bit TOO much pride @ the expense of others, themselves, the environment. Yeah, that's gonna get flamed I bet, but just live there for awhile. I see a parallel with the direction America is taking, where one can shop all you want, watch horrible television, but let the corrupt leaders stay in charge or else. I met a young woman who owned a hotel in the tourist town of Yangshou. Her place was home to "Monkey Jane's Rooftop Bar", which had a beautiful view of the town, especially @ night, and many backpackers would hang out there. Loving the place myself, as I was looking for some exotic (to me) locale to set up my own business, we discussed business doings in China. "You can do whatever you want." She said. Just leave the government to itself was implied. Indeed one day a black limo rolled through town, the official inside & his wife waving from the half rolled down window in the back like they we're royalty. Since most Chinese are poor, or grew up that way and there is now electricity, highways, malls, blue jeans, game shows, rock music- economic freedom- most are content. Hell I got stoned with the owners of a reggae bar on a side street with the front door wide open. But POLITICAL FREEDOM? Just watch the video to see what Political freedom they have.

I just worry that's the direction America is taking. It sure is what the Republican Party wants: a one party system covering up the mistakes of its unregulated businesses. But watch all the American Idol you want.

Second comment: Back in 1994 I worked for the Rockefeller Ranch in Jackson Hole. Important people we're invited by the Rockfellers to enjoy it - no strings attached, just enjoy yourself - a good way to maintain connections. That is where the Clintons stayed if you'll recall. We'll one day i had a conversation with a former US Ambassador to China, I was a student of Buddhism & Tibet and when I brought up the subject his immediate reaction was to talk about how many of the monks we're actually quite militant, far from peaceful. The man was willingly blind to the evils of China's government, but then that's what he's paid to do I suppose. It was like talking about South African apartheid but one side only sees the guns the ANC (understandably) wanted to get there hands on, ignoring the evil, forceful methods of control the government used.

Here's Steve's complete comments, just so you see he wrote some great stuff.
Steven Peterson @ 92:

Wtf? That looks more like the video that China DOES want the world to see. Looks like a bunch of "thugs" involved in a pretty violent riot, including attacks on innocent bystanders and lots of looting and burning and mayhem. It ain't exactly a peaceful protest by innocent, spiritually enlightened beings or anything.

I mean not to go crazy but don't we call that type o' crap "terrorism" when people do it in the countries we are occupying, like Iraq and Afghanistan?

I think Tibetans should be totally free and independent too but the Tibetan people ought to decide what they want to do with their country, I don't see how violent riots by a bunch of pissed-off, whooping monks is gonna help the Tibetan people. I mean let's try to keep facts straight here at least, what was the point in posting this video along with talking about boycotting the Olympics and China's human rights abuses? It doesn't make much sense when you watch it...

QUOTE:
I am educated and the Tibetans have done more to oppress women in their own country than even the Chinese. personally know of Tibetan women who left China back in the late 50’s and have come to America and hate Buddhism because of how they were treated. I have been up in the Amdo region and have seen the suffering Tibetan women still face, and not from the Chinese, but from Tibetan men and the culture.

I would say the treatment of women in Asia is pretty poor all around. Its the treatment of the tibetans that have led to this anger, mostly youth, many of whom become monks out of poverty and culture, not seeking enlightenment. And the Dalai Lama has said the conditions in Tibet before the Communist era was very bad for may people. Indeed, the Dalai Lama tried to work with Mao, saw the good in the communists post-feudal view. Hell, the Communists ended foot binding in their own culture. There is much to criticize in the Buddhist view of reincarnation and karma as an excuse to look down on/not help beggers, the poor, the sick. Its akin to the Protestant work ethic "God helps those who help themselves." But to use something that happened 50 years ago to justify the current occupation, where Han China just took Tibet for itself, is wrong.

And to this: The videos I watched on youtube show what looks like hoodlums ransacking. Am I missing something? These people are supposed to be monks or what? It looked like teens vandalizing, burning and breaking. Did I miss something somewhere? You missed the beatings in secret cells, the ugliness of the "new" Lhasa, the pushiness and racism of the Chinese tourists and Chinese who live there. China is a great country filled with horrible people, as my Xian girlfriend says.

"a vast majority of people have no stomach for another boycott"

You're wrong on this one Nicolle. Before the GREED GENERATION took over America, the Olympics were ONCE EVERY 12 YEARS and that was the schedule for CENTURIES.

It is only because it has become BIG BUSINESS TOURIST DRAW FOR THE RICH that it has been scheduled more often.

Most working people have NO INTEREST in the Olympics, or any other sport anymore. It is a waste of our money and time when we should be fighting for our freedom.

The people of Tibet have a leader: The Dali Llama. He has told them to stop this rioting. Let him handle it.

If you support the People of Tibet? Send it to the Dali Llama and steer clear of the Olympics.

Wake up people. These are criminal tibetans rampaging, looting and killing. Is there any excuse for this? Non-tibetans were kill and burnt alive. How's that for genocide. It's a fine line between freedom fights and terrorists. These tibetans in the video are the latter!

Here's my impression after watching the video:

It's not genocide by the Chinese it's homicide by the Tibetans.

Those images reminded me of LA Watts riot... Man that was peaceful ain't it?

For those of you too young to remember, here's what Los Angeles looked like 15 years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYnJiiLGwjY

Western media distortions and omissions on Tibet, all in service of pursuing the most convenient narrative: that of peaceful protesters and the ensuing Chinese "crackdown." They've spent more time talking about the repercussions on their athletes and corporations that sponsored the games rather than on the what the Tibetans want or on their attacks on innocent Chinese civilians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

JD @ 134:

Western media distortions and omissions on Tibet, all in service of pursuing the most convenient narrative: that of peaceful protesters and the ensuing Chinese "crackdown." They've spent more time talking about the repercussions on their athletes and corporations that sponsored the games rather than on the what the Tibetans want or on their attacks on innocent Chinese civilians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

While the specific examples in the video might be true, I always find it laughable when a country, through its own agents of disinformation, sets out to do damage control in hopes of restoring whatever image it previously had among the international community. All governments do it, but you can't expect to occupy people's land, annex it as your own, and have no repercussions.

Cry me a river about the innocent Chinese civilians. Why are they in Tibet in the first place, if not to aid the government in its efforts to push out the Tibetans and resettle the region with Han Chinese?

John @ 131:

Tiger is totally right. This reminds me *exactly* of the Rodney King riots.

You can't disagree that blacks in America have some kind of a justifiable claim for getting angry, right? I mean, their ancestors were shipped here in chains, and they were treated as property in a "democracy" for 200 years. After gaining their freedom, they're still denied the right to vote in much of the country, and get lynched for looking at a white girl for another 100 years. And even 40 years after the Civil Rights movement, blacks are still struggling in economic and political terms... then they watch one of their defenseless brothers beaten senseless by 5 white cops on TV, and then they watch the cops walk free.

I mean, I can see why they'd get pissed.

Did that make it look any better when they started burning down Korean-owned stores and shooting at firefighters? How about when they dragged Reginald Denny out of his truck and beat his brains out? That's totally the image I had in mind when I saw those guys using a brick to bash in the head of the guy on the bike.

How about apologizing to the Indians whose land you stole? Wanna go back to Europe and give the land back to the Indians? How about apologizing to the Indians we still keep in concentration camps that have existed since the early 1600s in North America, whose forefathers we shot up, mutilated the dead, trod all over their sacred spots, made bargains and then promptly broke them before the ink was dry, trying to wipe out their cultures, nearly doing Wounded Knee round II, pretending that Indians who have lived here from likely before 12,000 years ago didn't exist by claiming North America was a New World (like Terra Nullius in Australia) and then, to top it off, killing off their food supply in a deliberate attempt to do what the Nazis did to white men about a century later.

Want to know why we hear about Babi Yar and not Wounded Knee or Sand Creek? Because the Nazis lost and we won. Blacks have grievances, yes. But let's not forget the Indians, who for the reasons above are the ones who are best entitled to the victim card.

lol, lovely liberals...

Interesting how we're more concerned about protecting the rights of others, who generally don't care about ours, and fail to monitor our civil liberties.