Putting abstinence-only funding on the chopping block
By Steve Benen Tuesday Mar 25, 2008 9:01am
James Dobson’s Focus on the Family issued an alert to its membership yesterday with a banner headline: “Liberals Want Federal Abstinence Education Cut.” To which I thought, “It’s about time.” From the religious right group’s report:
President Bush’s 2009 budget proposal includes $204 million to support Community-Based Abstinence Education (CBAE), but dozens of liberals in Congress want all abstinence money axed from the budget.
Seventy-six representatives — all abortion supporters — have signed a letter sponsored by Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va., asking the House Appropriations Committee to cut all abstinence-education funding. The letter follows another letter, sent by Reps. Lee Terry, R-Neb., and Mike McIntyre, D-N.C., urging support for CBAE funding and current guidelines.
The debate surfaces on the heels of a new study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that shows one in four teen girls in the U.S. has a sexually transmitted infection (STI).
I was especially struck by the notion that the timing of the CDC report was somehow helpful to the right’s efforts to promote abstinence-only funding. If anything, the opposite is true — as the rates of sexually-transmitted diseases go up, it’s all the more important to offer quality education on sexual health.
It’s quite simple: the evidence that abstinence-only is more effective doesn’t exist.
ABC News had this report last night:
The political and ethical debate over what to teach teenagers about sex is being reinvigorated after a recent study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) revealed that one in four teenage girls has a sexually transmitted disease. Now some say the study, the first of its kind, reveals why it’s so important to teach teens not to have sex at all; others argue that the study proves that federally funded abstinence-only education isn’t working.
Stoking the fire, a study published in the April edition of the Journal of Adolescent Health found that those who received comprehensive sex education were 50 percent less likely to become pregnant than those who received abstinence-only education. The study also found that those who received comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to become pregnant than those who received no sex education at all.
“I do think that there’s strong evidence that comprehensive sex education is more effective at preventing teen pregnancies,” said Pamela Kohler, lead author of the study and program manager at the University of Washington’s Center for AIDS and STD. “I think we pretty much debunked the myth that comprehensive sex education causes teenagers to have sex.”
Thus far, it appears conservative groups have missed the memo. For that matter, as I understand it, House Republicans and Bush administration officials are prepared to fight to keep the funding for ineffective programs in place.
One wonders just how many more studies it will take.
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You're missing the point, Steve.
If all sex education is abstinence-only, only non-abstainers will contract STIs.
It's a feature, not a bug.
I'm sure Bush will use the "saved" money in Iraq.
Translation:
"We want our kids to be idiots, but not f*cking idiots."
As Stephen Colbert memorably observed, "reality has a well-known liberal bias."
Dobson and his extremist followers should boycott all reich-wing politicians in protest.
All of us were teenagers at one point in our lives. And all of us know how we responded when our parents told us NOT to do something, without telling us WHY we shouldn't do it.
That's what this abstinance program does - tells kids not to do something without educating them as to WHY they shouldn't.
We always challenged our parents, just to see if they knew what the hell they were talking about. In my case, I got tired of my mother always being right.
Use that funding to rebuild New Orleans and allow Katrina victims to come home. No matter how well Bush responds to other disasters, they will always be compared to Katrina and he will always come out like the loser he is.
god spoke to Dobson, and said go forth, and spread the alarm. The sheep are wandering, and need to be saved from the evil dems.
I believe you mean, the evidence that abstinence-only is at all effective doesn’t exist.
Obviously, the way to end both STD's and rampant immorality is to convince women to save themselves for in vitro fertilization.
One can only hope that Dobson and his followers meet the same fate - put aside in the dust bin.
Also be a Cold Day in Hell before the Vatican revokes it's Condom Ban.
I wish these people would abstain from killing with the same zeal they abstain from fucking.
I remember being a teenager and the fastest way to get me to do something was to tell me not to do it.
Seems to me it's just about a crime not to teach kids how to protect themselves. This goes for a whole lot of things and especially sex. Kids are going to experiment with sex. I bet we all did. They need to know the dangers and possible outcomes of that experimentation. Their health could be at risk as well as their future. Any parent who refuses to educate their kids about such things is putting their child at risk. If the parent can't bring themselves to talk with their kids there should be other education available.
Is GWB a sexually transmitted disease?
Maybe the rate of STD infection in some teens is due to the "fact" that oral and anal sex aren't really sex".
Maybe more wingers should have been abstinent in the past -- we'd have that many less nutjobs ruining this country.
Money! Money! Money! is all this con-man is worried about.
Not being able to get his hands on a piece of that $204 million pie.
They don't want to educate about sex but if a girl does get pregnant, they don't want her to get an abortion. Hell, being the daughter of one of these people is a damned challenge.
Since when does evidence enter in to the equation? We're talkin' "the Bush Administration", remember?
Sheese!
pissed off patricia @ 17:
Agreed. And once this child is born, they could give a shit if he or she lies or dies.
Damn.Should be lives or dies.
pissed off patricia @ 17:
That's because the whole conservative Christian philosophy is punitive. If you do something they deem wrong, they want you punished for it. So if you get pregnant out of wedlock, they think you should be forced to carry the baby to term. If you have sex out of wedlock with someone who has an STD, you should contract the STD and be forced to deal with the consequences, sometimes for the rest of your life -- which could in fact be shortened because of the STD. I have never understood how this philosophy squares with the Christian concept of forgiveness.
Why does this sick child-abuse advocate get any press?
As a fiscal conservative, a social progressive, and a believer in God/Allah/YHWH who's all too familiar with the hypocrisy of the Religious Right, I say - GO LIBERALS!!
$204 million. That's what, 70 cents for every American individual, spend on pushing a failed ideology that's purely faith-based? Not only wasteful spending, but unconstitutional.
Of course it's also a far cry from the hundreds of billions (and more importantly, thousands of lives) being wasted in Iraq. That whole thing is also faith-based... and it's a creepy faith indeed.
deebee @ 14:
No, he's a parasite.
I REALLY wish Mr. Dobson would teach abstinence only FOREVER to his children and any zombie willing to listen to him. The problem would take care of itself.
Odd ain't it?
Why are most pro-lifers are against universal healthcare?
That whole funding for abstinence only programs is a waste and I hope it does get cut. It is, and always has been a futile effort to fight human nature and this latest CDC report is a clear indication of that. Chastity belts and other methods of control used in the past have all failed.
"James", the Voice said, "educate those misguided democrats who want peace, prosperity and the persuit of happiness... or I'll destroy the World and you'll have to pay taxes, sell your limo and castle and Rolex and live like a peasant".
Too bad children of reich-wingers didn't stay abstinent forever.
I don't have anything against teaching abstinence as part of a greater, comprehensive sex education. I want my daughter to be abstinent but I know in the real world, that aint gonna happen. Women like her need all the info they get to make the proper choices.
Anais @ 21:
On the other hand, if THEY violate any of their own rules, a week at jeebus camp and a declaration that they've been cured/forgiven for their sins and everything is hunky dory.
How many daughters and mistresses of wealthy xian death cultists do you suppose have had abortions in the past 10 years? I'll bet it's way more than the number of adoptions of unwanted babies by the same group.
Are the leaders of the pro-life movement lying or stupid?
These people bitch and moan about the tragedy of all those "babies" being "murdered," but when it comes to preventing abortions, they splurge their funds on pushing for bills that deny oral contraceptives to be covered under medical insurance and force their abstinence-only "education" down the throats of our kids instead of conprehensive sex ed that shows them how to protect themselves, things that would PREVENT pregnancies and thus produce a drop in abortion rates. Are they just trying to kill babies, and then passing laws to make it illegal so it looks like it's not their fault?
By the way, I've seen footage of abstinence-only classes, and it's not pretty. It's ugly, like, dumb-bitch-without-any-credentials-talking-about-hypothetical-scenarios-without-interjecting-any-scientific-or-medical-facts ugly. THEY call it education; I call it sub-par story time.
Funny how this story comes up regarding Abstinence Education. This without complete teaching of sexual education--condoms, birth control, etc.--is going to hurt women especially. Men will act as if there is no problem until they are struck with STDs too.
What is not telling are how many who are following abstinence only teach are the ones who tend to fail and find themselves in a worst situation then before. Our teens are asked to put their lives on the line for our country and given the responsibility to drive and drink. Why not give them the education and information needed to have them make informed choices.
If not this year, then next year these things need to be struck down...immediately.
redestructionist @ 12:
It seems to me, on average, that the more often one has good sexual intercourse, the less grouchy and prone to violence/murder the person is.
Maybe the best way to commit civil disobediance is to have a National F**k-Off at The Mall in D.C. On a warm day, of course...the cops might trade in their tazers for vibrators. "All right men, the sooner these activists come, the sooner they'll leave...get to it!"
This message is brought to you by Viagra.
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 24:
He should have been a blowjob...
$204,000,000 = almost 7 hours of war.
They don't support abortion, they support the women's right to make the decision to abort or not. Noone is walking around with a "GET AN ABORTION" sign or wearing buttons saying "ABORTION ROCKS!!".
The problem with the religious right's sex program, is that so many of their young girls take away from it that it's perfectly ok for them to take it up the ass and take a shot in the mouth, because they'll still be "virgins". STD's don't care what hole it goes in.
Verdillac @ 35:
LOL!
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 38:
The biggest crime George H.W. Bush has ever commited, is not maintaining the trend of "pulling out" in the face of danger, like he did when he ditched his aircraft in the Pacific.
I always believe a tiny part of this is a warped jealousy:
I ain't gettin' any, so you shouldn't either....
Without proper instruction, it's like playing with Loaded Guns!
If only his parents had abstained.
Yes. People like Dobson know that these "culture wars" are what keeps their movement alive. Without something to complain about, these flat-earthers are completely irrelevant.
Therefore, they support non-functional government programs like "Abstinence Education" in the hopes that abortions will continue (in large numbers).
I've always found it odd that right-wingers complain so much about abortion, when they are the ones who so often seek to exploit it. "Abstinence Education" makes their scheming more transparent than it ever was before.
Acting Patriotic @ 41:
The results can be every bit as tragic if they accidentally go off....
Yellow Elephant Safari (Hussein) @ 30:
They are not "Christians" in the traditional sense. They throw Jesus' name all over the place to justify their behavior, but the fact is that these people are "Old Testament" "wrath of God" evangelicals.
Here is another point. If that CDC report is correct, then people like Dobson who do not want sexual education taught may be contributing to the start of an STD epidemic which could very well spread to the same future babies that Dobson and those like him always claim to be protecting.
Joe O. @ 46:
No, those children will be "born of Sin" and deserve their misery, and "unworthy".
Putting abstinence-only funding on the chopping block
OUCH!
That just makes me want to cross my legs.
I guess this era will be known as the Gelded Age.
I have had to come to the conclusion along time ago that a huge portion of the American people want to be lied to. Deep down they know it's BS but it feels better than the real truth. It happens on a variety of issues like Iraq they would rather hear that we can win (what ever that means to them) than the real truth that sooner or later we will have to leave with out a win. People would rather pretend that if you don't tell children how to have safe sex they will not have sex at all. That if you talk about safe sex at all it is somehow promoting it. I find it depressing.
Another example of religion's absurdity. As if there aren't enough examples already.
these born-again types think that if they ignore issues they'll just cease to exist.
really childish mentality, I can't believe people are stupid enough to follow along.
wait a minute - yeah, I can believe it all right.
hey Dobson! I've got news for your ignorant, fear-the-Lord-or-else little mind:
GOD invented both teenage pregnancies and STDs, so just get over it jackass!
these assholes always want to go on and on about how everything is "God's will"
except what they pick and choose to claim isn't.. well, either EVERYTHING is
or everything ISN'T and you can't have it both ways you fucking hypocite.
Maybe he should get a few knob jobs. It might make his head look a little less likely to explode.
You know, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the black plague started in a similar fasion. In fact, I bet some religious nutjob was preaching just prior to black plague epidemic that it was against God's will to kill black rats.
RayC Hussein @ 49:
I agree. I think pro-life people mean well, they're just gullible idiots who want something to fight for, so they feel importannt. Somebody told them to cry over murdered babies, and they pretend to become outraged for attention. After a while, the lie becomes too complex and they start to REALLY believe. But lying to yourself, when all the evidence to the contrary is right in front of your nose, isn't much better than lying to others.
Ah...the religious right assholes...try as they might they just cannot legislate morality.
Damn can't they just all get together and mass rapture themselves out of my misery?
I don't know, just looking a James Dobson makes me not want to have sex. James Dobson should teach abstinence in the nude, that'll kill anybody's sex drive.
Joe O. @ 52:
Actually, The Church was convinced that cats (the only natural predator to rats in cities) were agents of the Devil...so, they killed off all the cats they could....
One wonders just how many more studies it will take
Or how many poor teenage girls will be allocated a life of poverty due to an unplanned pregnancy.
I've often wondered why these people seem to be so concerned with the rights of a zygote, but have no problem at all killing fully formed and grown people with whom they disagree. Every unborn baby has a right to live unless they grow up and form opinions that these religiuos nutjobs diagree with. Then they must be destroyed.
Focus on the Family has been in decline for several years. They layed off 42% of the staff in 06/07 and this is another way for DR. James to try to increase donations to keep his lifestyle afloat.
r @ 25:
And they are the ones most in favour of capital punishment.
F***ed up world
204 million to teach kids that if you don't have sex, you won't get STD's or pregnant? Wow. What a deal. Next budget there has been 210 million set aside to teach kids that if you don't run out in front of a car, you won't get hit.
What were the polls for kids who took these ass-backwards classes?
6 times more likely to perform oral sex and 4 times more likely to perform anal sex.
Coming soon to a classroom near religious nutbars.......The sexual quota system, cuz hey, it's worked out so well in China.
What I'm wondering is, of all the money Bush has spent in Africa, has that been abstinence-only as well?
deebee @ 14:
Not really, I beleive he is the result of the mess that Satan left
running down that goat's leg.
"My Pet Goat" ?
ConcernedCanuck @ 61:
How about 200 million to teach children if they don't join the Army they won't get killed in Iraq? If they don't vote against their own economic interests they will better off in the long run?
Verdillac @ 39:
I'm sure h dubyah would have become an independent by now if he wasn't the father of dubyah.
Look if these people think that the FLINTSTONES was a docudrama as evidenced by their creationist museum. Why do you think they have a problem believlng abstinence
The real story should be, "As a result of abstinence education under the Bush administration, one in four teen girls have an STD."
But, of course, that would never be a story in the MSM. Even though the rise in STD's follows the rise in abstinence only education in this country.
Why exactly does someone need money to tell kids not to have sex?
Wait wait wait. So comprehensive education = 50% less pregnancies vs. Abstinence only
And comprehensive education = 60% less pregnancies vs. No education
Um, wow, that 10% difference sure was worth it.
DA in LA @ 69:
Exactly. Shouldn't the church be promoting this message for free?
“Liberals Want Federal Abstinence Education Cut.”
and so begins this ellections right wing wedge issue hoping to fire up the same segment of right wing society that came out in 04 to fight the evil wedge issue of gay marriage. predictable yes but i certainly hope that these americans see it for wehat it truely is. fear mongering.
Do these abstainers send their kids on the road without a spare tire and tell them not to drive over any nails?
Dr. Hussien Matt @ 71:
I'd druther be having my sex for free.
I don't get it What is with these Republicans and their obsession with sex? Can't they think or talk about anything else? They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They are the biggest hypocrites that ever lived with the most perverted minds I have ever encountered. SICK, SICK, SICK. Who cares what anyone does in their personal, sexual lives. Give it a break already!
we should cut all public funds to any subsidized religious groups.
then we should tax houses of "worship", religious retreat centers, day care centers, schools, etc.
just because they sell an invisible product doesn't mean the money they rake in isn't real.
Dobson is a self-absorbed loonie. He has to weigh in on everything like this because he craves the attention it gives him. The man has serious issues.
Well, aside from the callous nature the Dobson types try to hide behind their holier than thou sanctimonious religous claptrap and clearly illogical abstinence only ideology, which refuses to face reality... The truth of the matter is, boys will be boys and girls will be girls and puberty is just a fact of life which will among other things physical and psychological, tends to move the two genders to experiment... Sometimes solely, sometimes together... Been that way since, well, probably always if the truth be known and faced up to.
The social and political manipulations of these, most probably sexually frustrated prudes, a self conflicted frustrated collection of assholes aren't going to change human nature by self serving fiat and pontification from on high telling us all how to live our lives. Nature finds a way.... And as it turns out, nature favors coupling, copulation otherwise also known as gooey, sticky sex to make babies and continue the perpituation of the species... Apparently this makes these religio-wingers crazy on some kind of level.
I personally suspect it's got more to do with the fact they just aren't gettin any than it has to do with wanting to save little Johnny and Janie from obtaining unsavory carnal knowledge before they can handle it... Oh yea, and getting their hands on all those millions of dollars others have spoken of upthread. Getting their hands on someones money and forcing their own frustrations and prudish views onto everyone else.. Yep, that's pretty much the whole deal with the Dobson crowd... In short, as I just said, a pack of assholes with too much time and money on their hands already, and way overinflated egos... And too little common sense or actual compassion for others.
I wouldn't ask a one of them what time of day it was, let alone advice on how to raise my kids................JD
Verdillac @ 35:
The best part of GWB ran down his momma's leg...
Maybe if all the xian fundies practiced what they preach, we'd have less xian fundies in the world.
I am tired of this prick and the hypocritical religious wing-nuts that he represents pushing their views on all the rest of us.... We need to push back... really hard.... this is not a theocracy
You guys know, of course, that Dobson is a big financial backer of eHarmony.com. If that site had any ethics at all, they would make it clear that it is a born-again CHRISTIAN dating service. That way, those desiring that type of mate, would use it, and those who don't, won't. BTW, that "Dr." Neil Clark Warren just seems a little creepy to me.
In the struggle of biology versus culture, nature trumps nurture most of the time.
People like Dobson know the abstinence programs do not work but if the funding is cut they won't be able to skim their percentage off the top anymore. CUT IT!
brian @ 84:
That's right abstinence is great if the child will follow it but what if they don't?
What did you do when you were a kid?
When I was just getting old enough to start being sexually aware was back during the time of LBJ and nixon we had been shown that the leaders of the country were liars and could not be trusted and therefore you could not believe anything they told you. As time has gone on and ford pardoned nixon and proved that the governments elected officials could not be trusted. Now we have scum like bush/chenny lying and stealing and don't give a shit what anyone has to think about it. We can see once again that the people in our government are corrupt and sre only in office to enrich themselves.
Mike35 @ 70:
Yeah, Abstinece-Only education is only ten percent better than nothing at all.
Who are these "abortion supporters" he's talking about? Nobody is pro-abortion. Mind you, this is coming from a guy who advocates beating the shit out of children. Worship fetuses, demean and abuse them when they're actually on the planet.
shutterbug98 @ 82:
He's a lot creepy. So are the couples in the commercials.
I have had enough of this discussion. And I can tell you most of you liberals got it all wrong.
Abstinence only program is about choice. Yes, you are right, it's about choice, the freedom of choice and limitations of choice.
By not educating our children of the benefits of abstinence, you are really limiting the future outlook of these young impressionable kids. Abstinence only program is beneficial to our children for it taught them self control, improving their conditions and choices in life. This win-win program should not be abolished at all, on the contrary it should be encouraged.
The alleged failure of this program in the study is most likely due to the failure of the states government to coordinate and enforce this program, and lack of church participation in the program. The church support in this program is crucial, and it is the primary reason why it fails. It fails because of the separation of church and state. Should this separation, be, let's say put aside only specifically for this program, then I can guarantee you all, that this abstinence only program will work.
dj @ Arlington Group
James Ratliff @ 85:
That's the point right there. How many kids actually follow the "no sex" trend these days, if they can avoid it? Hell, if I'd had a long-term boyfriend in high school, I know I would have lost my virginity pretty quickly.
Christians are too bleeding stupid to look back at history and realize, "Gee! Up to a hundred years ago or so, EVERYBODY was having babies at fifteen!" That line in Romeo and Juliet where Lord Capulet doesn't want Juliet to marry Paris yet because "She's not fourteen" was culturally correct; women DID marry in their midteens, they DID have sex at an age when we would consider them children, and babies WERE the result of that relationship! The only difference between then and now is that men don't just inherit their fathers' businesses, the cost of living demands more income than one working member can provide in most non-upper class families, and because of reforms in education, we consider the time it takes to be a full adult a lot longer. Society has changed; our bodies haven't. Any idiot who thinks he can just change when our bodies decide they want to reproduce is a moron.
Actually most "liberals" want to teach both birth control and abstinence.
Reichwingers are so against teaching both, while insisting we teach both science and Biblical fairy-tales in biology class.
Liberals have been pushing for a values classes in public schools for decades, but too many Christians resist these classes being created, because they don't want to be compared to other religions; they want to think morality is unique to them.
Additionally, studies have been conducted that the percentage of girls who take chastity-pledges get impregated as young and as unmarried as those who don't take such pledges.
dj @ 89:
It is about choice. It is about the fact that most teens will choose to experiment sexually, whether or not they have been told otherwise. The choice adults have is to ignore teen sexuality, put our fingers in our ears, close our eyes and sing la la la really loud, or we can educate them on the dangers of unprotected sexual activity and give them the tools they need to protect themselves when they inevitably decide to experiment.
dj @ 89:
Abstinence IS encouraged in comprehensive classes, dj. It's the sentence teens hear four or five times a lesson. The difference is those of us who like science know that many of those kids are going to listen to their bodies more so than their instructor. In that case, isn't it negligent for we, the people upon whom they depend for information, to not make sure they know how to take care of themselves if they do have sex? It is a good thing to wait, but if they're not going to I'd rather they know how to protect themselves than watch them waste away from AIDS.
diamondmc @ 19:
"If you're pre-born, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're fucked"-George Carlin's perfect summation of the "pro-life" movement.
I think we should do this on the First of May. (NSFW lyrics in link)
dj@89;
Sorry slick.. Not buyin... But you do have a clever rap... Got all your philosophical i's dotted and your t's crossed mister 'I guarentee you it will work'.... And it still smells just like theocratic 'separation of church and state' line blurring bullshit Holmes...
'If we can, let's say, "put aside" church and state in this ONE instance'... Yea right... just this one time...(reminds me of the old I'll pull it out in time story)...And it will all be well and good until the next situation in which you and your kind want to set aside church and state separation... just one more time.. and then one more after that, and on and on.....
And that's how you get from a representative democracy to a theocratic one religion dominated state... I can guaren-fucking- tee you, that IS how that shit plays out in this real world.. But you probably already know that don't you Mr. DJ Arlington Group.... So just FUCK OFF!!!!!! JD
dj @ 89:
Why should a church have anything to do with any of this? Since when did any church have any expertise in health, child care and sexual education issues? And who's church anyways? Buddah, sikh, shinto, etc.
In 1 Corinthians 7:9 is says, "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."
Quite a ringing endorsement for waiting until marriage. Marry or go to hell.
Methinks it's doubtful that Saul/Paul was referring to the burning of having crabs.
Phillip @ 98:
I doubt the Church of Satan would support an abstinence program.
Icelander @ 100:
Oh, they do. It's called the "Touch my daughter and I'll rip your lungs out" program.
I think the answer is to make everyone happy is.... sure have all the abstinence programs you want... just have them at church and do not use taxpayers money to fund them.... it will be one more reason to not go to church.
dj @ 89:
Hey DJ, kindly keep your hokey religious beliefs out of my govt, GOT IT SPARKY!
Ya wanna live in a theocracy? FUCK OFF! I said before, get a big ol' barge, tie several together if ya want, take it out to sea. And you can live like fucking puritans if you want.
WE DON'T WANT OR NEED YOUR GOD IN OUR GOVT! This kind of shit starts wars mother fucker! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! Not everyone in this country is a bloody xtian.
I can't believe anyone still takes this ass clown Dobson seriously anymore!
Icelander @ 96:
Actually First of May would be appropriate. It's what the Celtic Trad Witches celebation as Beltaine. In ye olden days, they used to put up maypoles with white and red streamers, and have a cross between a large picnic and orgy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg4YrOlAkds
Thank you, Dobson, I'd forgotten.
I demand a clear vow from both Clinton and Obama that they will end all of George Bush's "faith based" tax payer funded giveaways to religious groups.
I wonder how many of these "abstinence education" groups are really fronts for Dobson's "Focus On the Family". Money to these groups goes right into his pockets. This guy is a fucking racketeer, nothing more.
jimbo92107 @ 106:
You won't get that from Hillary, that's for sure. See the October 2007 issue of Mother Jones for a really good, indepth article on Hillary's secret fundie friends.
Phillip @ 102:
I agree. How hard is it to tell kids "Don't fuck". Not that they'd listen, of course (I never did).
ysbaddaden @ 107:
do you mean "in ye olden days" as in "last year"? You See, Wiccans of Today observe Beltaine and some of us indeed do include the orgy, or the discreet orgy for two...of course there's always discretion if there are any little "witchlets" about. ;)
Gee Just say no...oh wait wrong policy, I guess abstinence only does not apply to pastors when bending over young alter boys giving them the ol "holy offerings" Forgive me father for I have sinned. Here my son, take this holy money and buy us some meth and I will show you the secret of the "big ten inch commandments" Is this ok with the magical being they worship?
"No Sex!" said a pastor named James,
But unmarrieds want more than board games:
"Our God made kids horny, Kate,
So why don't we fornicate?"
Now God is the one that James blames!
Verdillac @ 112:
Hell, I can't even find any who practice rites skyclad.
Some almost seem like Protestant churches.
to jack damage@80, Outstanding comment, never heard it better put**
ysbaddaden @ 115:
Some Wiccans come from oppressive Christian Background and bring that baggage with them...some are every bit as dogmatic/fundamentalist and power/control-hungry as the freako "Christian" churches they came from.
Regarding the skyclad thang,I know of a few in my neck of the woods who let it all hang out ...would you like me to ask around about when they hold skyclad open house??
Ok...Stop the presses! What the...just what in tarhooties is skyclad?
Is that the same thing as butt-bare-assed-nekkid?
liberalHUSSEINmoderation @ 119:
That's how Texan Witches put it.
Nakedness=Happiness...unless yer an older fella with sagging assets in need of support!
not me (yet)!
People that feel the state ought to spend money to tell people to NOT have sex are just plain unhinged. Maybe that's why they vent their frustration bombing others.
Victory means, STFU you dirty liberal hippie terris-lover, and get ye to the mall.
Oops, wrong thread (at 123)
Teen pregnancy for the first time in 15 years went up.
If you need a more telling reason that this is an utter failure of a policy... I don't know what I can say.
How about eliminating the tax exemption for these whack jobs. They make too much, where is their vow to poverty????
Look out you right wing hypocrites!!!! Liberals want everyone having sex. Sex, sex,sex everywhere, all the time, etc. What a bunch of idiots!!!
From what I've gathered, they are only talking about VAGINAL abstinence. Oral and anal don't seem to "count".
And the father/daughter "pledge" shit creeps me out.
Our school district in California was a bible-belt one (it was in Central California...yes, there are other places like Orange County in California), and we had abstinence-only Sex Education...more of the 'doom and gloom' of the STDs, including the one that stays with you for 18 years (unless the virus never matures, and lives in your basement playing WoW all day). No condom know-how, no alternatives to abortion, no pregnancy prevention...just "BOO!"
I still snicker when I remember there was six pregnancies my Senior class alone.
Putting abstinence-only funding on the chopping block
Sounds like a spastic Rabbi performing a briss.
Thom @ 126:
Actually, they're against whack jobs too.
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