The Man Behind The 4,000th Number
By Nicole Belle Friday Mar 28, 2008 11:00amAs I watched the talking heads in the last week try to justify and rationalize that horrifying milestone of 4,000 casualties in Iraq and Dana Perino trying to convince us that Bush truly grieves for each loss, the anonymity of it all started to niggle at me. Four thousand is such an antiseptic number that marks how many lost loves, and children who will miss their mommy or daddy's guidance and love? How many lost hugs and kisses? How many games of basketball with buddies from back in the day? How many future plans, both grandiose and small, have vanished? These men and women sacrificed for some amoral ideological notions of profit and hegemony all had lives that have been cut needlessly short and deprived their loved ones of their companionship forever. My buddy, Bob Geiger tried to put a face and a life behind that milestone number.
The Agonist (cross posted at HuffPo):
We know that 96 percent of the Americans killed in Iraq have died since Bush boasted that our mission was accomplished and we know with sickening assurance that we have hit the hideous milestone of 4,000 of our own dead in the Bush administration's war of choice.
We arrived at that number on Sunday and we've seen it replayed in all its sterility throughout the media this entire week.
And to be sure the numbers of dead and wounded while astounding in generalities have sadly begun over the last five years to lose their specificity, to render us unable to grasp the individual stories of lives lost for no reason and so many families left with interminable grief.
But I want to tell you about number 4,000, because he has a name and he had a wonderful life to come.
His name is Christopher M. Hake. He was a U.S. Army Staff Sargent. More importantly, he was a husband to wife Kelli and a father to 1-year-old son, Gage.
He was from Enid, Oklahoma -- and he was 26 years old.
We can't say for sure that Hake was number 4,000 of our Iraq dead because Pvt. George Delgado, 21, of Palmdale, Calif., Pfc. Andrew J. Habsieger, 22, of Festus, Mo. and Spc. Jose A. Rubio Hernandez, 24, of Mission, Texas all died in a horrible blast earlier this week when, according to the Defense Department, "their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive" in Baghdad.
But as a Veteran myself, I can tell you that these men were brothers until the end and that, because more early news and details are available on Chris Hake than his buddies, we can tell his story and hope all Americans understand the identical preciousness of every life we have needlessly lost in Iraq.
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Handsome man and family.
What a waste of life. To die for Bush's lies.
All brought to you by cowardly, sociopathic, draft-dodging neocons who "had other things to do" when it was their time to serve.
the number 4000 is not only sterile but false.
the number 4000 is the number acknowledged by the amoral administration.
the number 4000 represents only those who died in Iraq and in "combat"
the number 4000 does not include those who dies from wounds not directly a result of "combat"
the number 4000 does not include those who died in hospitals outside Iraq
the number 4000 is a lie - a very big, very sad, lie.
I grieve for every person who suffered and who died because of the amoral, and illegal invasion and occupation initiated by the bush administration --- in the name of the US.
I thank all of these brave soldiers, dead and wounded, for their sacrifice for this country. And bless all of the families for their sacrifices in their own ways. Bush never asked the entire country to share in this war, he told us to go 'shopping'. He's not a leader, he just 'plays' one in real life. He never has been a leader. I always think about Iraq and what has been wrought with this ill-conceived and reckless war. Every American should be informed on what's going on over there and in Afghanistan. This is not news to be relegated to the back burner. It should be front and center. Bush is a failure and not much of a man.
thank you, C&L.
even us conscieneous liberals can get dazed by numbers and forget the people behind them.
Isn't it pretty darn arrogant of Americans to only look at American losses. No one knows how many Iraqi lives have been lost since the United States put it's evil eyes on that country. After the first Gulf war, Iraq lost an estimated 1,000,000 lives because of sanctions that were placed on them. Since Chimpy started the second war there have been estimates of another 1,000,000 million lives lost. And don't forget the millions of lives that have been totally disrupted. Millions of people have fled their country and are living as refugees. Meanwhile in America: we've lost 4,000 lives. Sure it's a tragedy, but come on, a little perspective is ok sometimes.
Leslie...we have nothing but arbitrary numbers in our society. the number of unemployed is made up of only people who are collecting unemployment insurance, the rest don't count. So why would we expect the number of Americans killed in this BS Iraqi war to be any different. why do you think they don't want us seeing coffins come home...because people can count and they would see the real number of dead arriving back on our shores.
That's what kills me about Republicans who try to say they support the troops...how? how does a Republican support our soldiers? living or dead the Republicans in American do NOTHING to support them. But the funny thing is if you repeat a lie enough (no matter how absurd the lie is) people will start to believe it... DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT! - the only way American will ever be free of the Conservative menace is to call them on all their lies.
I don't care if it takes 10 years; if they don't shine the light on the Bush crime syndicate, and put all these warmongering profiteers in jail, this country will be doomed in the future. These bastards MUST pay for what they have done. And that means putting their corporatist backers (MSM) in the clink with them. We also need a constitutional amendment outlawing groups like Blackwater. Why in the hell does the U.S.A. need to have private armies. How sick is that?
Geiger says: "We should not forget either that tens of thousand of Iraqi civilians have been killed since the U.S. invaded in March 2003."
Read the article.
Dave @ 7:
Cheney: So? They were dumb enough to enlist. Should have been smart like me and avoided the military.
Its too bad the morons who support the war are too too chickenshit to enlist. The very thought of them having to serve makes them piss their pants. Instead they continue to talk shit and put "Support the troops" magnets on their vehicles.
Support the troops, bring them home.
George W. Bush is suffering from another severe case of premature Iraq elation. That's the inescapable diagnosis after a week which featured sunny statements from the President even as Baghdad and Basra descended into chaos.
Five years after "mission accomplished," Bush is now portraying setbacks as proof of success and escalating violence as a sign of a healthy democracy.
For the details, see:
"Bush's Premature Iraq Elation."
This senseless, illegal war, is the reason that intelligent people just won't join the service anymore. I feel bad for these murdered soldiers that Dumbya could spit on and care less.
Maybe people are glad they can shop, surf the net, complain, and watch TV instead of getting one of these in the mail.
http://www.namsense.com/images/Draft%20Notice.jpg
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 8:
Amen
A minimum of 4000 lives lost is really a fair number for invading a country. Americans should actually be wondering, how does a ragtag "civil war" accompanying an invasion, been able to buy black market weapons, and scare the BaJeebus out of the world's most powerful military. This is the number 1 military in the world? I'd say the bragging rights are vastly over-rated even with the limited number used in this invasion. IF the government line is to be believed about terrorists (and it should be now because some Iraqis and muslims will seek revenge) America is in deep crapola. Pulling troops out will not soothe the hatred, and obviously the US does not have the military capabilities to stop the inevitable revenge. Scared now? Should be. The military has basically proved it can club nations over the head, but cannot win a decisive military victory. Couldn't in Korea. Couldn't in Vietnam. That says a lot.
We should all be comforted that our president mourns every soldiers loss very personally..
sure,everyone is just a pawn in his pathetic policies.
the media is responsible for all of these losses.
Thank You Nicole. Thank You very much for this topic. This needs to to be brought up on all levels. Every single one of those people who have died or been injured needs their names to be mentioned. On a Regular basis. I'm aware of the Sunday memoriam thread. But America needs to see all of their names at the same time.All the time.Everyday, so they can't dismiss this war.
again
My Thanks.
ConcernedCanuck @ 16:
Wow. It's the lies that precipitated the invasion that makes every death seem even more tragic.
On behalf of the many Canadians who visit this site I would like to express my condolences to the Hake family for their loss.
Brealistic @ 17:
In fact our pResident was so very mournful that on Easter Sunday, the day our 4000th (acknowledged) casualty
occurred, he was cavorting on the People's Lawn with his favorite little patriot.
Or think of that little Iraqi boy, whose arms were shot off by the same U.S. shellfire that killed his family.
Or the mother of the blinded soldier at Walter Reed hospital, admitted to envying another wounded GI who had suffered a double amputation- such was her grief at her son's loss of vision.
Think of just these two things the next time you see anyone, anywhere, accord GW Bush the slightest degree of respect. (And, yeah, I'm looking at you, White House press corps- keep laughing at his inane quips).
Dave @ 7:
Dave, very well said. As Lt. Ehren Watada said at the Veterans for Peace convention in Seattle in 2006, "... he or she must be aware that they are being used for ill-gain. Though the American soldier wants to do right, the illegitimacy of the occupation itself, the policies of this administration, and rules of engagement of desperate field commanders will ultimately force them to be party to war crimes."
Watada went on to say that "The oath we take swears allegiance not to one man but to a document of principles and laws designed to protect the people. Enlisting in the military does not relinquish one's right to seek the truth-neither does it excuse one from rational thought nor the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. 'I was only following orders' is never an excuse."
As Watada infers, it is long past the point that these soldiers recognize that they are being led to their doom for no justifiable reason whatsoever. It is time that they recognize that they have a brain and that they do not have to obey Tenneyson's dictum of "into the valley of death" rode, in this case, the 158,000.
Soldiers say NO to the illegal occupation of Iraq. The best way to bring an occupation to a halt is to have it happen from within.
I pray for the president to somehow find the strength to go on commiting our troops lives to this democratic civil war..
can you believe apparently more then 20 % of the population still supports bush totally. Are their tha t many people in comas in this country. Where do the hospitals keep them all? How can they answer polls?
How many freshly minted War millionaires did we create this past week with profits made in arms, pharmaceuticals, aircrafts, motor vehicles, equipment, food, tires, mercenaries, outright thefts of cash, etc?
Yeah, we should also look at all the innocent Iraqi's how have died because of the Preznit and his cronies. Not to mention the displaced Iraq's. christ, this thing is so fubar...
How incredibly shameful it is to speak for the dead. This man may very well have believed in what he was fighting for and it's absolutely disgusting to see him paraded around for your, or anybody elses, cause.
mudshark hussein @ 19:
Remember when Ted Koppel showed the names and photos of the US casualties (thousands of losses ago) and he was villified in press and on television for this "un-American" act ?
We need more anti-Americans like Ted Koppel.
Brealistic @ 24:
The other 80% aren't exactly putting on a muscular performance in demanding this war be ended either.
Tom Piltoff @ 27:
Stings doesn't it?
even though he may have believed in what he was fighting for, his goal was not to come home in a body bag. why don't you enlist? and if youv'e already been in, re-up motherfucker.
And Monday we're going to see Bush Co pushing for the U.S. Economy to be privatized and run by a small handful of his cronies.
The Coup De Grâce
I've not seen one piece in print or broadcast corporate media that asks the question, "Where are the sons and daughters of the neo-cons? How many are serving in the armed forces." As far as that goes, where are the sons and daughters of the media pundits, editors, newsreaders and assorted bloviators? Where are the sons and daughters of the priviledged and elite? Defending the homeland to protect corporate interests and the status quo. What a deal.
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
Thanks for the draft notice!
Tom Piltoff @ 27:
This is a valid point. However, it is still an unjust and unnecessary war.
This thing about trying to justify this criminally disastrous war by hanging on so that those that have lost sons and daughters, husbands and wives, mothers and fathers don't have to live with the fact that their lives were, indeed, wasted. They died because they accepted as a given that their leaders wouldn't get us, and in particular them, into this mess unless it was absolutely necessary. That it was what this country needed to do as part of a legitimate response to those that struck us on 9/11. It's the same agonizing, and heartbreaking reality that was, and is, Vietnam. It never should have fucking happened...and they know it, but are too arrogant (I would call it ashamed if I thought any of them had the slightest shred of a conscience) to admit it. Just wait, one of these days one of these bastards with experience a 'William McNamara Moment' and write a book that tells us - 'Yeah, we lied to you, but it was because you couldn't handle the truth about why we really did it - we wanted to cover Israel's ass and control the oil' - and when that happens we still won't be able to come to grips with the fact that our 'best and brightest' died for it.
redcat @ 31:
His goal was to not die? Holy shit, I'll alert the media.
And don't even try and give me that bullshit 'why aren't YOU there?' because what you're advocating is for the military to be out of civilian control. I can support a war without being there, just like a soldier can be against the war while serving.
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
I remember when my (then) boyfriend received his notice. What a heart-stopping moment that was.
I also remember when the draft lottery was instituted, my one brother had already enlisted so he could join the service of his choice, and my other brother was # 318 or some such number.
What a gut-wrenching time that was. (Of course not for Bush as he "joined the Texas AirNational Guard to "learn to fly" so he could protect Texas from an invasion from Oklahoma - and then deserted.)
So to LA Confidential and all the other vets, thank you for serving. And as bush jr says, "doing the romantic thing by protecting us".
what an asshat.
Tom Piltoff @ 37:
So in the interest of better understanding . . . why do you support Bush's war?
Thank you for making the point. It's not a number. It's a person, a family, a loss.
That photo leaves me heartbroken. Meanwhile, oblivious friends and family members blissfully go about their routine activities. WHEN will the media start SHOWING these and thousands of other real images of the consequences of war to America? I try to wake others, but they prefer the comfort of ignorance and denial...bolstered by the lack of sufficient media attention.
VietVet8666 @ 34:
Brings back horrible memories of when I received my letter those many years ago which began with that ominous word Greetings. Sometimes I still find it difficult to believe that there is no longer a military draft in effect and that other American males are not receiving the same draft notice that I did. It is also difficult not to be outraged when one thinks how many hundreds of thousands of Americans had to comply with their draft notices back then while people like Dick Cheney and Bill O'Reilly and the other war hawks were able to get away with not obeying the dictates of the draft board.
Where's Tony Snow when we need him? He could say it was "only a number" and then everybody could go back to the presidential beauty contests.
"Every man's death diminishes me because I am a part of mankind."
"Pro-life" Bush's war claim's number 4000.
I wonder how may babies both inside and outside the womb "pro-life" Bush has caused to be aborted.
This essay should be hand delivered to every member of the Bush/Cheney administration on Memorial Day, every year for the rest of their lives. Then, when they are dead and gone, it should be posted on their markers.
Tom Piltoff @ 37:
No, I'd imagine his goal was not to die uselessly, to live long enough to see his family grown, and to protect his country from attack. Instead, he was used by chickhawk neo-cons to fight the wrong war.
And, if you've never served in the military, don't give me that shit about "supporting a war without being there". Once you've put on the uniform and gotten your ass shot at, it'll give you a whole attitude adjustment. If turds like Bush and Cheney had actually served in combat they wouldn't be so willing to get some other mother's son or daughter killed.
USN - Mekong Delta 69-70
Bush stole that man's life. Bush stole that little boy's father. Bush stole that woman's husband. No words are adequate for describing how low Bush and his cronies are.
Tom Piltoff @ 37:
I really can't believe you support this, but If you do, please refrain from calling it a War, congress never declared war on Iraq. You support the invasion and occupation of Iraq so long as no one requires you to invade or occupy said country. That makes you a dead-ender and your support for Bush should be entering its last throes! Bless your Heart.
After reading an article in my local newspaper (The News and Observer, Raleigh NC) and hearing W comment on the radio about his war in Iraq I sent the following letter to the editor. Does W know what he's saying or is he just a parrot on Dick's shoulder?
---
Our president has admitted that he occasionally has a problem with the English language. But after more than seven years in office his staff should have found a decent dictionary. Regarding the 4000th US military death in Iraq, Bush declared yesterday "I have vowed in the past, and I will vow so long as I'm president, to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain -- that, in fact, there is an outcome that will merit the sacrifice.”
I would like to point out that the obvious outcome is the deaths of 4000 soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis. The war has also managed to create more terrorists than there were to start with. So this loss of life is certainly not ineffectual. Tragic is a more accurate word. Using vain to describe irreverence does not apply either, even though religion has a prominent role in the conflict.
The first definition in my dictionary, “excessively proud and boastful of or concerned about one's own appearance, qualities, achievements” seems to hit the nail on the head. Squarely on George Bush's head. It is his vanity for whom those soldiers died. In fact, an archaic use of “vanity” from the Oxford English Dictionary is descriptive: “a person lacking in sense or wisdom; foolish, thoughtless; of an idle or futile disposition.” I admit to taking the President's name “in vain,” but the failure of Bush's war to have the desired effect in Iraq is Bush's vainglory not those poor dead soldiers.
Daniel @ 48:
Daniel
Extremely well said. The war hawks, like this fellow and people like Dick "five deferments" Cheney are very quick to advocate war as long as it is other people who have to fight their wars and occupations
Thanks Nicole.
As a young(er) man from self-absorbed SoCal, I spent a few months working in Enid, OK (doing survey work at Enid AFB). I was surprised at how friendly and tolerant the people of the town and the base were of a long-haired hippie from SoCal. I realize this is a generalization, of course; but my experiences with the people of Enid were all good.
Best of luck to his and the other 3999+ American families, not to mention the Iraqi ones.
And, of course, FUCK GWB and his ilk. May you burn in Hell. Have a nice day.
It is certainly painful to see pictures like this, an ideal American family, handsome young man, beautiful wife, robust and healthy child, knowing that their family has been destroyed by his death in an unjust and illegal war.
But even more compelling are pictures of the savagely wounded who are being left behind by this administration. It's too bad that more people have not seen Bill Moyers interview last week with the creators if the film Body of War who follow the cruel privation and intense and difficult life of one who answered the 9/11 disaster to fight in Afghanistan only to get shot during his first week after being diverted to Iraq.
Watch it if you dare.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03212008/watch.html
did he win something?
It was still worth it.
Right??? Right??????
It's truly amazing how many Americans do not or will not understand how truly evil the government(s) of the United States have been for decades upon decades. The war in Iraq is not the first or even the second war of choice for the government. Don't forget about the carpet bombing of Cambodia in the '70s or the invasions of most of the countries of South and Central America over the century. The continuing occupation of Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy etc. The United States is a bully who insists that everything must be done the American way. Any country that tries to go it's own way and rebuffs American desires is punished. American presidents don't mind the fact that leaders of foreign countries that they install kill or torture or imprison, so long as the American wishes are fulfilled. The media meanwhile spreads the message that America is perfect, the home of the brave and the land of the free, brainwashing the citizens of the country to the facts of American policies internationally. Dozens of countries around the world have hatred of the United States. American policy has been and continues to be genocidal. So long as it suits American policy it doesn't matter the ends to the means. What is really amazing about 9/11 is that there haven't been dozens of them. So many people of the world have suffered because of American interference. The United States that most people think of was killed decades ago. What is in it's place right now is an empire of conquest and accrual of foreign assets.
Maybe he should have refused to go and murder innocent people.
Then he would have truly been a hero.
this guy was killing people in iraq because someone told him to and neglecting his wife, life, children and duties back home?
tell me again why i should feel sorry for someone who is getting hit by cars while standing in the middle of the interstate with a gun taking potshots at motorists?
I am sorry to be an ass about this, but in my opinion... the estimated hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead, sort of leave the number 4000 as being almost irrelevant. Especially if you put the casualty per capita rate between the American and Iraqi populations.
We are talking over 2 orders of magnitude difference, that is huge. But since these victims were not photogenic, or had beautiful family pictures... Americans don't even bother counting them.
God have mercy on the souls of this country...
JonJon @ 52:
So, an "ideal American family" is white and beautiful with a kid?
How very "progressive" of you.
This is war, and numbnuts george and the dick had not one clue as to the misery and death that they would cause; they are fools -- deadly ones. And now I fear the democratic party is going to give obama the nod, without letting Florida and Michigan vote. This will piss off so many voters and give McCain the presidency. SO MORE WAR; it is what you get with a green candidate with supporters that are true believers not savy political folk. here we go again; I knew we were in trouble when I heard obama speak and praise ronnie reagan over and over.....shit
McCain the Liar @ 11:
Sorry, I actually agree with Cheney on this one. If people refused to enlist it would bankrupt the military, forcing them to install a draft, which would cause a huge uproar...exactly what we need.
You enlist to murder innocent people, this is what happens.
Tom Piltoff @ 27:
Right, but by all means don't let that stop you from using him as a shield for your interests. You used him when alive as well as in his death... and we are the ones to be ashamed. Right?
The hypocrisy of the right winger; too chickenshit to fight... but has no problem sending other people to die for their biding. And yet according to him, the people speaking against sending other people to their early graves are the degenerated ones....
[Deleted. No personal attacks please-Sitemonitor]... there is a special ring of hell for people of your ilk.
And so I'm The Decider danced with a rabbit when he heard about reaching 4000. So proud.
BUSH DOES MOURN EVERY DEATH...
bush: oh god, look what that death is doing to my approval ratings !!!!
Jim @ 60:
Most people join the Army not because they love their country so much they can't help it, but rather... this country is so fucked up that the Army is the last recourse they have left. Most of the people in the American army are in the literal sense, cannon fodder. Which is pretty fucked up IMHO.
Jim @ 56:
Bravo. Very well said.
Jim @ 58:
I saw Georgie after the soldier's death, bringing it to an even 4000, and asked if he understood how the soldier felt. His response?
"Don't kill me!" he said mockingly.
Jim@58
You're reading your own biases into the comment. Notice I wrote "an" meaning one of many possibilities. "Ideal" can come in many varieties. This picture is only one of them. Next time, don't be so srupid as to jump without thinking through your comment
What is ocurring now could have been prevented 40 years ago, when rich daddies got their sons deferrments or in the National Guard units instead of having them serve when their number came up in the draft. These so called leaders would have the past knowledge of what ocurrs during a war, rather than strutting around ACTING like they do. And their lives, if they had survived, and our lives would be better off for it now.
I used to work as a gravedigger. I actually helped bury the 3,000th soldier (by "official", Pent standards) in Texas.
This is sad. Thanks for the article.
Perino can say a thousand times over that the idiot-in-chief looks at the file of every soldier killed, there is no way in f*&** heck I'm going to believe her. There's no way in hell that ass*#*# feels any remorse for the lives and families he's destroyed.
That child is going to grow up without a father and I'm supposed to think that chipmy feels sorry while clowning around on the steps of the White House or running around with the easter bunny? F*** you, Bush and f*** every single person who still supports you.
Chopvac @ 67:
The idiot has no feelings, no brain, nothing. He's a demented moron playing with people's lives as if they were toys.
The smiles of that family. That beautiful little baby. I almost started crying, but maybe I can't because I'm so furious!!!!
Let's hope Dante Alighieri has a dreadful level in hell reserved for booshco.
RalphieV @ 73:
My first thought was wondering when the baby's of age will he put on a uniform?
Chopvac @ 67:
I hope that was a joke on your part, but with what boosh said about Karla Faye Tucker, and his search for WMD's in the Oval Office as a "joke," I can't be certain.
How many Iraqi's are dead - many children! Give me a break - bush murdered all these people and don't just talk about our dead.
DBrown @ 76:
We have to.
The average American Idol, Joe Six-pack, either sees ALL Iraqis as terrorists, enablers, or killed by Al Qaeda.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 3:
All Americans need to emphasize this ever so important point that "NOGW" brings to this post. In my view it is THE most important point based on the epitome of HYPOCRISY that the Neocons have brought to this war. As a Vietnam veteran this has always been my purpose in posting here attempting to educate Americans pointing out the most repulsive of all the Rethug Cowards, suck-ass guitarist Ted Nugent, who boasted of urinating and defecating in his pants a week before reporting for his draft board physical to avoid serving during Vietnam. Now he makes "Blood Money" performing on stage wrapped in Ole' Glory like he's some kind of fucking patriotic hero. He fits right in with these Neocon yellow-bellies, although the "Nuge" probably has more stock invested in air freshners.
So I gather his wife is single now...?
just got back from a outing with family. no you can't pussytoff, if you support this shit, your ass or your kids ass should be there. anyone who still supports this idiot in the white house should have to put their life or their kids life on the line for him.
This is just further evidence of Senator McCain's weakness in the areas of national security and foreign policy. TPM and Acropolis Review provide more for debunking that myth:
http://acropolisreview.com/2008/03/john-mccains-iraq-war-five-year.html
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/184135.php
God bless you Christopher M. Hake. God bless you.
Tom Piltoff @ 27:
With all due respect, BITE ME. Where am I speaking for him? I am giving the number a name, not ascribing motivations or political ideologies to him. This isn't a partisan bullshit game, so I'm not taking your petty little bait. THIS IS A HUMAN LIFE. He deserves to be more than a number. They all do. And what is disgusting is that they will not get that respect from the administration nor the media. So it is left to us to remind everyone what that loss means. I can only hope that when it's your turn to go that your death is not treated as antiseptically and dishonorably. Too bad your heart is not as charitable.
DBrown @ 77:
Do a site search. I blog about the deaths of and devastation to Iraqis all the time. I'm in contact with the bloggers at Gorilla's Guide and I consider it my responsibility to present things from their point of view.
My material point is that the media gives us a faceless number and it doesn't allow us to understand the magnitude of the loss, how many other lives are lessened by the loss. That the media doesn't even bother to count Iraqis is an abomination, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't honor the sacrifice our military has made.
meanwhile Muqtadr Al Sadr.......tells his men there is no surrender. This guy just took the gloves off.It's gonna get real ugly, real fast now.
Mike @ 46:
Hey Mike, How you doin. My cousin was there(as a matter of fact,he just got stationed there ) for TET. He finally went to the VA and was diagnosed with PTSS. That was just 2 years ago. Lets see, 67-68.......2008. yeah.he's still a tough MoFo... but I digress.How are you?
mudshark hussein @ 85:
Now we'll see how well the "Surge" isn't working.
fastfeat @ 87:
yeah, this whole illusion of success is over. now we get to see what the future is going to be like.
as if we didn't already know.
Yeah, no more campaigning (on the taxpayer dime) by McInsane over in the Green Zone for awhile.
(OK, I'm calling it quits. Getting off topic, plus it's lights out for an hour...)
Nicole Belle @ 84:
I was with Nicole Belle up until the last sentence, when she stated "... but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't honor the sacrifice our military has made." As a Vietnam veteran I see this happening all the time, from the right and over to the left. Also, as a former English major in college, I strongly believe that it is important that words convey the proper meaning. Why should that soldier's sacrifice [by which you actually mean his needless death] be honored? By honoring his sacrifice, I interpret that to mean that what he did was noble and just. It was not, just as what I did those many years ago was far from noble and just. What he did was engage in the illegal and immoral occupation [which actually means the brutalization and terrorization of the Iraqi people] of another country. What this site and all of the other so-called liberal sites on the Internet should be doing is honoring those who have said that they will no longer fight in the U.S. military in order to suppress and harass and inflict fear and destruction upon those in the Middle East.
If I may suggest, what one could say is that they lament the needless loss of this American soldier as well as the unnecessary deaths of so many Iraqis at the hands of the U.S. military. Lamenting is, I believe, a far better way of describing this man's death than by saying that he should be "honored" for what he did. He was part of an occupying force and I defy anyone, especially those who consider themselves to be liberal, to try and justify [without engaging in vitriol and idiotic patriotic drivel] why he and other American soldiers should be honored for what they are doing in Iraq, which is keeping the Iraqi people under the thumb of American imperialism. One suspects if foreign soldiers were occupying America, that Americans would hardly be demanding that those soldiers be honored for occupying this country.
leslie @ 39:
I'm just saying that I still don't have an answer. And everytime I read a comment by this Tom Piltoff person I'm going to repeat the question until I get an answer. I won't mind if it is OT. I hope you won't.
Like comrade Stalin has said, death of one person is a tragedy, deaths of millions - statistics. Very sad.
4000......."SO?"...slippery Dick (i had other things to do) Cheney
Semper fi!
We hear the "4000" number so often that we tend to forget that that's only Iraq.
On the day of #4000, Afghanistan had it's 490th troop death, bringing the true number of dead due to Bush's incompetently run wars just under 4,500; and the TOTAL number of Americans to die as a direct result of this administrations incompetency to be just over 9,100 dead Americans.
Do not forget the rest of the deaths of other countries that are also there, in Iraq and Afghanistan.
man, this sucks so bad.
I still go to icasualties.org all the time to check the numbers and get a name or even a face for each one.
Come home fast come home safe!
My nephew and best friend are there for their 2nd tour
let's end it!
IRAQ - Military Fatalities: By Time Period
--------------
Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
6 921 46 9 976 2.31 422
5 933 32 20 985 2.39 412
4 715 13 18 746 2.35 318
3 580 25 27 632 2.93 216
2 718 27 59 804 1.9 424
1 140 33 173 4.02 43
Total 4007 176 133 4316 2.35 1835
AFGHANISTAN- Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US Other Total
2008 16 21 37
2007 117 115 232
2006 98 93 191
2005 99 31 130
2004 52 6 58
2003 48 9 57
2002 49 20 69
2001 12 0 12
Total 491 295 786
TWO DEAD SHORT OF 4500!
Who will be the last to die for a lie?
an official U.S. Department of Veteran
Affairs official, but not well publicized count, of 73,846 U.S. soldiers who have
perished as an apparent result of Depleted Uranium based bio-chemical warfare exposure.
information coming from reporters and troops in Iraq is that the government is simply bulldozing sand over dead troops and listing them as missing in action thereby avoiding any statistics regarding dead or disabled.
Well over 200,000 American soldiers could be killed by 2010
I stopped reading when it got to this guy's info. I won't read any of em till we somehow, someway, could get all 4000 available. The number 4000 is nothing special, except in our base 10 number system. Number 4000 is no more special than number 2734.
OMG, had relatives in Enid.
Goodbye, Chris. Sorry, Kelli, Gage. I hope you both have some positive belief in this war to sustain you through this time, your time of loss.
Arrrgghhhhh!!!!!
4,000 soldiers have not died in Iraq!!!!
STOP SAYING THAT!!!
The number is over 15,000!!!!
The government doesn't include soldiers who have died as a result of the Iraq war, they only count those who dies IN IRAQ IN BATTLE.
Seriously, are the other 11,000 soldiers not worth mentioning???
STOP SAYING 4,000!!!!!
Mike @ 46:
And, if you've never served in the military, don't give me that shit about "supporting a war without being there". Once you've put on the uniform and gotten your ass shot at, it'll give you a whole attitude adjustment. If turds like Bush and Cheney had actually served in combat they wouldn't be so willing to get some other mother's son or daughter killed.
USN - Mekong Delta 69-70
False logic. I'm not making any claim to understand how wholly terrifying war can be. But don't tell me I can't have an opinion on the military action of my country under any circumstances.
leslie @ 39:
I don't support Bush's war, that isn't how I view it. I view American aid in defending a democratic Iraq against Islamic fascists. Oh, but wait, our soldiers are all there just randomly killing Iraqi civilians, right?
And although I never said I did, I apparently have to point out that I'm not a spokesperson for Bush.
Daniel @ 48: I really can't believe you support this, but If you do, please refrain from calling it a War
Why not tell the above officer that what is going on in Iraq isn't a war?
The Dude @ 62:
Wrong. I never said I was a Republican nor a fan of President Bush.
Nicole Belle @ 84:
Oh give me a break. Of course there's absolutely no hint of your political leanings in "These men and women sacrificed for some amoral ideological notions of profit and hegemony..."
Nicole Belle @ 84:
Of course.
DBrown @ 77:
Ah, so the innocent Iraqis that died in skirmishes between US forces and al Qaeda are claimed for your cause, but the Iraqis fighting for their democracy that would undoubtedly be slaughtered as consequence to a troop withdrawal aren't worth mentioning.
mudshark hussein @ 86:
I'm pretty good mudshark...but I do know now why the palm trees were all brown and dying in some areas...Agent Orange. Fortunately, I don't have the liver problems, but apparently, it also affected the pancreas...and I'm Type 2 diabetic as a result. Anyone who served in Vietnam or it's territorial waters needs and has diabetes needs to contact the Veterans Administration, it means a 20% disability...
Bush is a sociopath, borderline psychopath. As such, the only thing he grieves for is loss of property and loss of power. The only people he would grieve for are those whom he views as either owning or being direct extensions of his own ego. He is incapable of according other human beings objective reality; no others truly exist to him in his own guts as having independent existence outside of himself. His professed grief either does not exist, or exists only as bereavement over a lost possession.
He cares nothing at all for the dead in this war, or the maimed. More, his refusal to attend any military funerals is an additional way that he isolates himself from reality andan additional way that he tries to pretend that he is immune from consequences. He belongs in a psychiatric hospital; he is criminally insane.
You see how terrorists can look just like you and me.
4000 and counting...meh.
The reason this carnage, horror and pile of lies continues is because your country continues to view these death squads as heros and not what they are...agents of terror.
How many lives did Mr.4000 help destroy on his way to the grave?
Who cares.
ktl @ 98:
It will end when your nephew and best friend refuse to go over and murder innocent people. They are ALLOWING this to continue. How very brave of them.
Proud Non-american @ 109:
Yes, because it's US troops that car bomb girls schools, and behead children who get caught conversing with soldiers, and destroy each others mosques, and call for the annihilation of a UN member state, and...
Nicole Belle @ 84:
With all due respect, BITE ME.
Does Count Dracula ever say that to Countess Carmilia?
Jim @ 110:
Jim
Very well said. As Dave Kline, one of the Vietnam veterans featured in the powerful documentary Sir! No Sir! observed, "Your silence [referring to the soldiers] is keeping this lie going."
I appreciate knowing about the people behind the victims of Bushco's fight for oil & Middle East domination. I'm a Native of OK (hometown Hobart) so it is sad that another victim is from OK as I'm sure there are others. This madness must end soon.
Thank you for posting this, one of the most important stories to appear on the Web in over 5 years. It should be forwarded far and wide.
*******4000 dead*******
Now that's not near enough to bring on armageddon. Come on you
'I CHOSE LIFE CHRISTIANS', more killing for jesus is necessary, you protectors of eggs and sperm you.
Let's start seeing reports of number of children losing parents, siblings losing siblings, parents losing children, weddings destroyed, and other ways of representing the true cost of the war.
Along with KBR/Halliburton stock prices, Cheney's net worth and the growing fortunes of the war profiteers.
Those who support the war need to see the cost in terms of the destruction of far more than a "volunteer's" body.
And, never forget the Iraqis we're helping. We can keep Bush's score in other units: 2 milli-holocausts, a micro-stalin, etc. His position amongst his peers needs to be tracked in appropriate units.
And don't forget, Herr Bush, that every pregnant woman that is killed because of you results in an abortion. I think that makes you the front runner in this field.
E Pleb Neesta
GODISNOWHERE
"I don't care who does the votin' as long as I get to do the nominatin'" -- William Marcy "Boss" Tweed
It's Bush's war. Bush's escalation. Bush's disaster. Bush's "legacy."
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