Jim Webb: No President in history has vetoed a benefits bill for those who have served
By John Amato Saturday May 17, 2008 2:30pm
Jim Webb, (who is one of my picks for VP) makes an excellent case for his GI Bill on MTP this morning and calls out the GOP on their negligent behavior and the threatened Bush veto. John McCain and George Bush say they support the troops, but when it comes to stepping up and doing something tangible, they are striking out. How dare they say these benefits are too costly when we're spending millions of dollars a day to occupy Iraq? And as Webb says, this will be used on the campaign trail. And a watered down substitute by McCain and his pal Graham is not the solution.
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Webb: No president in history has, has vetoed a, a benefits bill for those who've served. So on the one hand, we have this rhetoric, which goes to what I was writing saying, "This is the next greatest generation, these guys are so great." And then we see this president, he's fine with sending these people over and over again where they're spending more time in Iraq than they are at home. He's fine with the notion of stop loss, where we can, we can make people stay in even after enlistments are done. And then we say, "Give them the same benefit that the people in World War II have," and they say it's too expensive.
Think Progress has more:
The Pentagon has suggested that Webb’s bill is too generous in conferring benefits to soldiers after “only” two years of service. However, as Webb pointed out, soldiers would still have to finish their enlistment term. What’s more, as a recent CBO report showed, any loss in reenlistment rates is entirely made up for by increased military recruits.
Full transcript via MTP below the fold:
SEN. WEBB: I introduced this G.I. bill my first day in office. The idea was to give to people who'd been serving since 9/11 the same educational benefits, the same right to a first-class future as those who served in World War II. We, we started working hard on this bipartisan, nonpartisan, hopefully; we have now got 58 sponsors in the Senate, 300 sponsors in the House of Representatives, and a, and a good number of the, you know, the thinking Republicans have moved to us.
And now the president says he's going to veto this bill. No president in history has, has vetoed a, a benefits bill for those who've served. So on the one hand, we have this rhetoric, which goes to what I was writing saying, "This is the next greatest generation, these guys are so great." And then we see this president, he's fine with sending these people over and over again where they're spending more time in Iraq than they are at home. He's fine with the notion of stop loss, where we can, we can make people stay in even after enlistments are done. And then we say, "Give them the same benefit that the people in World War II have," and they say it's too expensive. So I think the Republican Party is, you know, is, is on the block here to, to clearly demonstrate that they value military service or suffer the consequences of losing the support of people who've, who've served.
MR. RUSSERT: The Pentagon, the administration and other editorials across the country have said the problem with the bill is that if, after three years people can leave with full benefits, it'll be very difficult to retain good soldiers, to have them re-enlist.
SEN. WEBB: Well, I, I would say to them that three years of accumulated service qualify you for the benefits, but you still have to serve your enlistment. I spent five years in the Pentagon--one as a Marine, four as a defense executive. I did manpower issues the whole time; I know how these formulas work. We have, as co-sponsors on this bill, John Warner, former chairman of the Armed Services Committee; Carl Levin, current chairman of the Armed Services committee; Chairman Akaka of the Veterans committee; Senator Specter, former chairman of the, the Veterans committee; Chuck Hagel, the only senator to have served as a senior official in the Veterans Administration. We know what we're doing and, and we are not going to harm the military.
What you have is 70 to 75 percent of the ground troops in the, in the Army, in the Marine Corps, have left the service by the end of their first enlistment. And those are the people that are not being taken care of. The Department of Defense does a very good job of taking care of the, the career force, but this large number of people, the overwhelming majority of people who are out of the military, that come in because they love their country, they do a hitch and then they want to get on with their lives, they are not getting the opportunity for a first-class future that they deserve.
MR. RUSSERT: Will this bill, you think, if the president vetoes it, be an issue in the campaign? The presidential campaign?
SEN. WEBB: I, I would say the president really has a choice here and--to, to show how much he values military service. And if he were to veto this bill, I can't see how it would not become an issue in the campaign. What we want to do is get a bill--and I've been, I've been trying to keep the politics out of it. I've working--been working really hard to keep the politics out of it. We want to get a bill where Democrats and Republicans can come together. And I've, I've listened to all the veterans' organizations, I've, I've listened to other members of Congress and, and made modifications in this bill, and I think it's a very fair bill.
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Webb!
One of my pics, too, for VP.
He'll appeal to a lot of the voters O. may not.
The Republicans support sending the troops to fight in oil wars and for Halliburton but they don't support the troops. The only people the Republicans support today are themselves, the corrupt, the corporatists and the christo-fascists.
I agree that Webb would be a good choice for VP. He would compliment Obama perfectly.
There are ways to show you support the troops other than to provide them with quality health care and restored educational benefits. Isn't that what those flag lapel pins are for? And don't forget those of us who stick yellow magnets to the back of our SUV's. We really care! But don't tell anyone that both of those items are mostly imported from China.
Ruthless People @ 3:
You've said it all. It comes down to a few lining their pockets and to hell with the troops.
Every time I see Bush praising our brave troops for the media I want to vomit.
I want to see more footage of Republicans explaining why this bill isn't a good idea. Then the Dems can play it in ad after ad. Talk about giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves.
Rico @ 5:
I think I said this earlier on another thread, but I'll post it again here.
My favorite saying on those yellow ribbon car magnets is "meaningless gesture". I saw one last week. Maybe I'll glue it to the "Impeach" sign I have on my front lawn....
I liked Webb a lot, and had great hopes for him when he got elected, but then he went and voted to pass FISA. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Nonetheless, I think he's a strong choice for VP.
Bush supports the troops like I support roaches.
Needless to say, not very well, or very nicely.
I believe this bill is a MUST do for our servicemembers. Realizing that we have huge numbers of active duty troops who are being involuntarily extended (See: Stoploss) without any hope of educational benefits, along with countless others who have been recalled to active duty after honorably serving their enlistments, I see no play for those who say that too many will leave after their first enlistments. Terms of service are now set by the needs of the military, anyway. FYI: I served as an army enlisted men for three years leaving the service after my last assignment to Vietnam. I was offered and accepted a wonderful GI Bill package which paid for a large part of my college education. When I finished, I returned to the service and served 20 plus years more. Not a bad payback for my benefit and one which I feel many more would choose to do.
Gretchen @ 6:
These are the same people who say things like, "PTSD isn't real" or "Well, this is a volunteer military and that's their job".
Makes me sick every time I see that "Support the Troops" yellow ribbon magnet on a car. I know most of the time, it's just a political statement and those people don't really give a damn about the troops.
After this crime of a war, we should do everything we can for our veterans. After all, they have to live knwoing that their service in Iraq did nothing to protect this country or preserve freedom. As the years go by, this will become increasingly clear to them and they're going to be very angry.
The least we can do is make sure they get a college degree.
Ruthless People @ 3:
You said it! These rat-ba$tard scoundrels who've taken the office of the President of the United States of America don't care about anything but the almighty dollar. Filthy scumsucking pigs (sorry, pigs!)
This is more undeniable proof that reich-wingers do not support our troops.
Truth is, Rethugs DON'T support the troops, or for that matter, probably even like them. Were it up to them, Rethugs would completely outsource the military duties to mercenary groups that would be only accountable to them, and not require public funding.
Nothing is more perplexing than to see the VFW and American Legion support Bush/Cheney and Republicans when they have abused the military so profoundly--by overly long deployments, cutting of services, not caring for the sick vets properly at home, vetoing new veterans' benefits, not properly armoring vehicles, giving vets inferior protective gear, lying about Tillman's death and about Jessica Lynch, ignoring any dissenting general, misusing the National Guard, bolstering a private mercenary army, and so much more.
No President in history has vetoed a benefits bill for those who have served
How about a President from an alternate universe?
Deny them the same benefits that the veterans of WWII received?
Wow, that's the culture of our country after decades of Republican dominance.
G-R-E-E-D.
Is Bush's threatened veto overridable?
If not, can we hang it around the necks of the Republicans who vote to uphold the veto?
I could imagine some tough ads...
X-man -
In the alternate universe, Al Gore is President. Sheesh, don't you know anything about alternate universes?
Tell the gop to remove their silly flag pins.
They don't support the troops or country.
Right on, Sen. Webb! We need to highlight that fact and get it into the media.
When we finally reach the point that we are not only NOT surprised at the Bush Republican's hypocrisy, and we really understand that it covers truly evil self-serving greed and corruption, then maybe we'll be ready to rise up and rid ourselves of these disgusting murderers.
Until then, they will continue to get up every day, go back to our White House, and ruin more lives.
They will never willingly quit, not as long as there is anything left for them to steal.
What in the name of god are these idiots trying to prove by being against this bill -- in an election year?
We all realize that these jokers are mean-spirited and arrogant, but it seems that they would support Webb's bill just as a logical reaction in trying to cling to their power.
Why the hell die in the last ditch over an issue that is so obviously kicking their asses?
I wonder if Bush was listening to the generals on the ground when he got the idea to veto? Go ahead George show us your commitment to the troops, f****** loser.
nonny mouse @ 20:
I was hoping we were in the alternate universe and somewhere else there was a fully functioning American Democracy. At least someone would be having fun.
xoites (One White Vote for Obama) defends Constitution @ 26:
Dude, I keep thinking I'll wake up there anytime now....
As a Vietnam combat veteran, I take a keen interest in all things related to the welfare of our servicemen and women. There is no justification for opposing this bill. I applaud the efforts of Senator Webb and the hundreds of members of Congress, who have cosponsored this bill, Democrat and Republican alike. I hold those who oppose it in contempt. Every reason they offer is utterly lame.
Jim Webb is a true American patriot and hero. He is trustworthy, and has more integrity in his little pinkie than Bush, Cheney, or any number of other rethuglicans.
MacDaKnife @ 28:
Actually there IS justification for opposing this bill regardless of the cost. Don't you remember? Bush has to remain "relevant." His word, not mine.
MacDaKnife @ 28:
Yes. I've seen Webb's proposal called a "new" GI Bill in the press. From what I've read it actually is an adjustment, to bring the payments of the GI Bill into line with the current costs of a college education. I went to college on the GI Bill, after VN. I got more money to go to college than did those who served in WWII or Korea -- because I had to pay more to go to college.
The purpose of the GI Bill is to give people the "earned" opportunity to get an education. If the GI Bill is going to accomplish its intent then the money has to be adequate to current education cost -- otherwise it's a joke.
No President has ever vetoed a program that takes money from cigarette companies to help underprivileged children, either.
Gretchen @ 8:
Here's a great song about those magnet ribbons....enjoy.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KmsOIjzQ1V8
Re commenter above who said
"Makes me sick every time I see that “Support the Troops” yellow ribbon magnet on a car. I know most of the time, it’s just a political statement and those people don’t really give a damn about the troops."
I have been observing cars here in Seattle for the last two weeks, and you hardly see those pathetic ribbons anymore. Four years ago they were everywhere, especially on huge SUVs. They should have read "Support Big Oil"
just a thought from accross the 49th parallel, king george wants cannon fodder, not smart cannon fodder
Our troops are not precious brave men- they are brainwashed dupes with a license to kill- and saddest part of it is- it is NOT what they signed up for. Probably why they are killing themselves and each other in record numbers. We need to bring them home and end this evil once and for all.
Jim Webb: No President in history has vetoed a benefits bill for those who have served
Jim Webb: And I'm impotent to get it passed.
Sen. Webb spoke at the Virginia 11th CD Democratic convention yesterday and talked about this bill, among other things. He was awesome.
Maybe what this Bush fella is trying to say is... why reward soldiers who volunteer mindlessly to fight in illegal and amoral wars? Maybe he secretly blames them, because without these soldiers to volunteer for such a war, it would be awfully difficult to conduct one. Maybe he's just trying to discourage them from doing so in the future, to avoid further illegal wars.
If so, then if potential recruits would just listen to this ingenious subliminal message from the president, the upcoming inevitable war with Iran could be avoided. Thank you, Mr. Bush, Man of Peace! If this cunning plan works, let me be the first to nominate him for the Nobel Prize.
I also think Webb would be an excellent VP match-up for Obama. I think he would definitely offer something to those who would otherwise support McCain.
Is there any way we can get that suggestion out there? You'd think they would figure it out but I can't get over Gore picking Lieberman as a running mate. Even back then before Lieberman was fully visible as the Republican-owned wuss that he is, I knew people who didn't vote for Gore because of him....that VP choice COST him votes and I'm sure he didn't gain any out of the Republican camp....those kinds of VP choices make you wary.
Jill Bryant @ 40:
I'm with you especially after the Lieberman disaster. Webb would be great (my first choice) but there are others out there that might be just as good. There's only one name floating out there that would make me angry, and that's the name of Wesley Clark. It would be a disaster. He's a terrible campaigner, a Clinton sycophant, and would prove to be an anchor around Obama's neck. And it makes me awfully suspicious that Clark's name is the name most often floated by Hillary's campaign folks.
I heard an interview with Webb on NPR this week, and he stated emphatically that "I would tell Senator Obama's people that I can be much more useful to him right here in the US Senate." He would be good for the ticket, but I think his value really is as a Senator. JMHO...
VP
Chimpy is a liar and does not support the troops.
Typical Fake Christian Republican.
Jim Webb was elected based on his opposition to the war. He then proceeded to do absolutely nothing to end the war. The guy is obviously a wolf in sheep's clothing, just like Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, Wesley Clark, and just about every other Democratic politician. Furthermore, any *Democrat* who would like to see a person like Webb as VP is also a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Too Good for our Troops!
Don't Support Our Troops Too Much!
How are the Bush & McCain Republicans going to sell the above slogans in November?
If Bush vetoes this bill, it will destroy McCain in the election.
Mike @ 45:
And you're what?
A sheep in wolf's clothing?
Billy Shears @ 47:
<blockquote
And you're what?
A sheep in wolf's clothing?
No, I'm just an honest Democrat, unlike about 95% of Democratic politicians and voters.
Mike @ 48:
It must be lonely to be so nobly endowed.
Wow! Not even Nixon vetoed a GI bill with benefits as he prolonged the war in Vietnam, where more people died than that in Iraq, with his "secret plan"?
Mike @ 45:
Yes, it amazes me how many people have fallen for Webb. He talks a storm, and then votes with the Repugs. Look at his conservative rating in Congress -- one of the most conservative Dems, along with McCaskill and Tester.
http://voteview.ucsd.edu/sen110.htm
And what is interesting about the above link is that McCain is one of the most conservative Repugs.
People that come from a history of being involved with war do not make good leaders in a time where peace is the main issue. They make advisors. Blue Dog's are not a choice for this land.
And never forget, FISA is treason according to our constitution. A supporter of FISA is not a supported of democracy.
oldtree @ 54:
Webb's vote for retroactive immunity was one of the last straws for me. The rule of law is A Number One for me. I don't want him becoming president if something were to happen, so I don't want him anywhere near the vice presidency.
Can you believe the Pentagon said that Senator Webb's G.I. is "too generous" . God help us
Webb is the 11th most conservative Dem out of 51.
McCaskill is the 9th most conservative.
Tester is the 5th most conservative.
These are the doggiest of the blue dogs.
http://voteview.ucsd.edu/sen110.htm
VFW- http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=news.newsDtl&did=4549
Legion- http://www.legion.org/veterans
No way McCain is stupid enough to oppose this bill. He'll flip flop and vote for it, not a doubt in my mind. If he does vote against it, he is going to have a very hard time explaining that vote.
As far as Bush knows... I have no tea leaves at all. He may just be tone deaf enough to oppose everyone in uniform and every Veterans groups in the country... I thought it would be impossible for the Republicans to lose the support of the Miltary and veterans groups after the Reagan years... then Came George Bush. Sometimes I wonder, if the rebellion agains his dad is so supressed and strong... that he internally wants to kill the Republican brand forever.. just to spite his father.
Webb would make a great VP running mate with Obama. Southerner, former Republican who served under Reagan, moderate, military.
peaceful easy feeling @ 59:
Moderate? He has one of the most conservative voting records among the blue dog Democrats. See above.
In early February, Bill O'Reilly had a "big" announcement, which was that the O'Reilly Factor would be pushing for the new GI bill. BillO literally took credit for creating the bill and pushing for it. He said he would "monitor" the progress of the bill and report back to his viewers periodically. He said he would go to the homes of those who opposed the bill and knock on their doors.
Does anyone know if Billo actually has "monitored" and followed up on the GI Bill? I am quite sure he has not gone to the home of John McCain and knocked on his door.
Support the Troops is just a slogan.
For those above who think Webb would make a great VP-- Maybe, but he's my senator, and I want to keep him in the Senate, thank you very much. Wait four more years until Virginia turns very, very blue, then we'll send him on.
Otay @ 51:
Which is why I think he will help bring in some of the McCain votes. He also has a good military record. Maybe you aren't scared to death that Obama won't win (if McCain gets in and gets to appoint the judges - we are probably not going to be able to dig out of these dark times for an exponentially longer time than just his term. And that's just ONE aspect of how McCain is going to screw us.) For a VP, we need someone that is going to add Republican/undecided voters - not just solidify the Democrats we already have.
And Mike, I'm sorry, but I find your comment naive and not at all helpful to the cause. But, perhaps you can be the superior Democrat and make sure we don't have a prayer of winning.
Hey C & L and /or bloggers , can somebody locate videos of Bush in 2004 debates against Kerry where Bush says with Disgust, "He doesn't support the troops !" I hope somebody can run that video/those videos side by side with this news story about Bush wanting to hold back benefits for veterans. Maybe somebody with the resources and talent can make a 2004 versus 2008 edited video.....before/after.....then/now. How about this idea - a video ....or many videos where Bush and McCain are referred to as one entity = "Bush/McCain" as if McCain's first name is "Bush"....so ;
"Bush/McCain" then....Bush McCain now.
Bush McCain in 2004 .....Bush McCain in 2008
"Bush McCain flip flopping, foot in mouth disease, betraying the troops for 8 years. Can the United States of America withstand another 4 years of Bush McCain. This fall - vote Bush McCain out of office. It will take more than 50 years to repair all the damage Bush McCain has done. Repairing the damage done by Bush McCain must start A.S.A.P. This fall - vote for saving the United States of America. Say no more Bush McCain. Say "NO!" to Bush McCain.
I just re-read the message I just submitted. It gave me an idea. Obama and the Democrats should campaign this way :
Not only saying "Bush McCain" but advertise in a way that gives the dumbed down American public the illusion that McCain already is the President !! He's been in office for 8 years with Bush. Why would anything change in a positive direction? Right? Hey, I haven't seen any photos of Obama hugging and kissing Bush, but I have seen such photos of McCain. Also I haven't seen videos of Obama wearing a bullet -proof vest and shooping in Baghdad for rugs while surrounded by soldiers.....apache helicopters overhead....B-52s criss crossing the Baghdad skies.....ooops, I'm getting a bit excited about my ideas. Quick, somebody - send these ideas to the Obama campaign office headquaters and Jon Stewart !
In light of 60 Minutes which also aired tonight, is it any wonder that Iraqis who helpd Americans are left unprotected from those who wish to harm them for having helped?
Lone @ 16:
That is because the VFW and American Legion were populated for many years by WW2 and Korean War vets who remembered that the office of President was to be respected. And essentially, assholes like Dubya and the chickenhawks that surround him have seduced and betrayed those honorable veterans. You have to remember, many became Republicans in the 1950's when one of their own, Dwight Eisenhower ran for President. It produced men like Bob Dole and Joe Foss who worked to get benefits for servicemen, no matter what the cost.
That Republican party of Eisenhower is dead. The Neo-cons have corrupted the party, the office of the President and used the flag and patriotism to further their own evil, partisan political goals. That is why honorable men like Jim Webb jumped ship and became Democrats.
Republicans see the military as the Praetorian guard, to protect their power and wealth in an endless war. Democrats see the military as human beings being used as cannon fodder and recognize the need for education and medical care for them when they finally return home.
Jim Webb for V.P. - thanks, Marine, from a Mekong Delta River Rat.
Mike @ 45:
Thanks to you, Mike, I have had to change my signature because I think you're dead wrong about Webb and want nothing to do with your views
Does it really shock anyone that Bush and his ilk aren't interested in benefits to vets?
To the Bushies, the troops are little more than disposable, faceless figures...Bush doesn't care- The Repugs seem to prefer it when our soldiers die, so they can have another dead soldier they can wrap in a flag and turn into a martyr-yet when the troops come home alive, with severe physical of emotional trauma- Bush couldn't give a rats ass...He just sends them back to the battlefront-again and again, until they die.(AND FOR WHAT??)
As the line goes in Country Joe's 'Fixin to Die' song; "Be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box". The right wing war mongers are truly deranged..
What really amazes me is that when chickenhawks are reminded of the hell the troops are going through on an off the battlefield, they retort with 'oh yeah, well they volunteered!" (which I interpret as meaning 'that's tough shit")
No wait- Bush gave up golfing, so he must care about the troops!
Sickening.....
Lets draft Jenna Bush and her hubby, and have them fight on the front lines in Iraq..
Otay @ 57:
No, Mike was not "dead wrong" about Webb. Webb's voting record speaks for itself. He's a blue dog.
To hell with Jim Webb! Another lackie of the military industrial complex. We should put all the wounded American soldiers in prison, just like we do with other murderers.
Ruthless People @ 3:
the bigest threat this planet has ever face. republican neo-con.
Is it bad that I think that Jim Webb would make a great VP for many reasons, but one of them being he and his staffers are packing, and can offer some protection for Obama if it comes to that? I mean, I'm all for a peaceful world, but sometimes you need money, guns and lawyers.
Maybe Mr. Webb needs a little history lesson (and maybe some c&l ers as well). Grover Cleveland vetoed a civil war veterans benefit bill and was savaged for it, losing his reelection bid (first time). His reasoning was solid for any other federal benefit program (i.e., social security, medicare, medicaid, oil subsidies, farm subsidies, education assistance, etc.), but not for that particular benefit program. He said (paraphrased) that after reading the Constitution over and over, he could find no authority for any federal benefit payments to anyone. However, the military is included in the Constitution, and you have to pay a military force in one fashion or another, and there's no reason that cannot include a pension or health benefit. There is not, however, any language in the Constitution that can support any of the other above mentioned programs.
The horror of it all is that the very administration who questions the patriotism of people who opposed this unjustified war and constantly speak of supporting our brave troops to get their unfunded supplementals passed, think nothing of giving the shaft to our brave troops.
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