McCain targets Obama on military service
By Steve Benen Thursday May 22, 2008 4:05pmThere’s been a casual agreement in recent campaign cycles that presidential candidates with military backgrounds tout their service, but they don’t necessarily denigrate their rivals for not wearing a uniform. In each of the last five races, one presidential hopeful had considerably more military experience than his rival, and in each instance, the one who served resisted the temptation to attack the other for not having served.
This year, that’s apparently off the table.
Republican John McCain launched a harsh attack on Democrat Barack Obama’s lack of military credentials Thursday, charging that the frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination has “zero understanding” of veteran’s issues. [...]
For McCain, who supports the unpopular war in Iraq and is running in a tough year for Republicans, Obama’s lack of military experience may be his strongest line of attack in the fall.
Obama started this flap, criticizing McCain’s decision to oppose a modernized, bipartisan GI Bill. McCain’s overheated response made it personal: “I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did.”
There are a couple of angles to this. First, obviously, is McCain trying to say he has credibility on the issue, by virtue of his background. This is a surprisingly weak pitch — McCain’s service isn’t relevant to his Senate votes that undercut those currently wearing the uniform.
Second, it’s curious that so many in the media continue to believe that McCain is reluctant to campaign on his military service, when just the opposite is pretty obvious.
Reporters seem to be thinking of the 2000 McCain, who went out of his way to avoid talking about his Navy background. They may even be thinking of 2004, when McCain criticized John Kerry for reminding voters of his own heroic service. McCain said he was “sick and tired of re-fighting the Vietnam War,” and disparaged Kerry, saying his emphasis on his military record is “clearly a tactical or strategic move.”
But this is a far different McCain. This McCain seems to believe, “You can’t criticize me; I’m a war hero.”
Indeed, Bloomberg reported this week that McCain seems to be using his background as something of a catch-all “trump card.”
Whether he’s deflecting criticism over his health-care plan or mocking a tribute to the Woodstock music festival, Senator John McCain has a trump card: the Hanoi Hilton.
That’s the nickname for the site where he spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, a past that McCain regularly recalls on the campaign trail to fend off policy attacks, score political points and give voters a glimpse of his sentimental side. He campaigns with squadrons of POWs and made a video to mark the 35th anniversary of his release from prison.
When Elizabeth Edwards, wife of former Senator John Edwards, rebuked McCain’s medical-care proposal and noted that he’d always enjoyed government health benefits, McCain responded that he knows what it’s like to get inadequate care — “from another government.” During an October debate, while knocking a Hillary Clinton plan to help fund a museum celebrating Woodstock, McCain said he missed the 1969 festival because he was “tied up at the time.” Even his rivals applauded.
Even this week, when McCain was pressed on why he flip-flopped on normalized relations with Cuba, he responded, “My record is unchanged and consistent for 24 years. A Cuban officer and enlisted men came to Hanoi and tortured my friends — killed one of them. My position on Cuba has been exactly the same.”
The McCain campaign brings up the war “often enough to make sure it stays in people’s minds, but not so much that it seems exploitative and crass,” said Media Matters’ Paul Waldman.
True, though if McCain’s only defense for opposing expanded education benefits for the troops is “Obama didn’t serve and I did,” he’s certainly getting awfully close to the exploitative/crass line.
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there's a reason civilians are in charge of the military mr. mccain, and you had better wise up to the source of that fairly quickly. it's called the u.s. constitution. read it someday why don't you?
Obama was criticizing McCain's lack of support for the new GI Bill, NOT McManiac's military service. There's a difference, and he knows it. Obama's lack of service has nothing to do with it.
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John McBush served years and years ago in a different era, which has nothing to do with what is going on today. And if he is so pro military, then why does he vote against benefits for today's veterans? Crazy old bastard!
Sounds like it's time for in-depth coverage of McLame's military career as well as his actions upon returning home. I don't think he's going to like it very much.
So, Obama did not wear a uniform. Neither was he a prisoner of war. So what! Who gives a fuck! I'll be damn if that becomes an issue.
If service is so vital to the office, what about Bush? Wonder what McCain would have to say about that.
If McCain is so much better because he has military experience...
1) Why did he get caught?
2) Why is he listening to and following the advice of those who have no military experience?
3) Why does he not know what a tactical retreat is?
Blue Lensman @ 4:
No one in the MSM has the balls to do a balanced story about McBush's military service and life thereafter, which includes an affair with his current wife when she was a young woman.
Didn't 176 sailors died in the Forrestal, because of McCain's stupidity?
I'm retired military.
If McCain wants to tout his military background then why didn't he vote for the GI Bill?
Obama was able to break away from his campaign schedule to vote to support our troops.
I guess what I'm asking is why does John McCain hate our troops?
Tell you what, John McCain, I'm a veteran. I'll echo verbatim Obama's every criticism about your various veterans and military votes and positions. As I'm sure millions of other veterans and active duty and reserve duty people in uniform will. He's speaking for us. Discount that, if you can. That's representative democracy, which I know is a thing you find loathsome.
John, take your self-righteous indignation and shove it up your ass.
His idea of Military experience is to follow in his father the Admiral (and previous McCain's who served in the Navy) who believe that the US should exert its power throughout the world, and have no reservations about flexing that muscle.
Funny how John Kerry's service in uniform didn't exempt him from criticism.
It's official: this country is doomed.
Okay, McCain was a prisoner of war for 5 years and that needs to be respected...but how in the world does that qualify him to be President?
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Ole Mac will get max heat if he takes that approach. He will disqualify a ton of wingers from Bill'O to Limbaugh to Cheney from credible talk of service as they too did not serve. In fact in that little crowd there are 8 draft deferments. Go for it buddy and while we are there...Just where the hell was Hannity during Desert Storm?
Eff that! look who's sitting in the office of the Prez and V-P who don't have any military service. Next?!
Why doesn't McSame question the cowards who either went AWOL during his war or dodged it completely. Over 90% of the chickenhawks with (R) after their names never wore the uniform. The biggest warmonger is Dick Cheney the five deferment coward. MsShame should not go down that road for his party's sake.
Paul @ 11:
I too am a vet..and of the VietNam war. Stick it McCain..and thank you Senator Obama.
bobbie @ 14:
It doesn't... plain and simple.
Where's the Clinton video basing her strategy around Obama getting his head blown off?
McCain's (or to be more precise his speechwriter's) attack on Obama is pathetic. I fail to see how his 1960's military tour excuses his failure to support the new G.I. bill. Sorry John, but not everybody gets to marry a woman whose Daddy's nickname is Warbucks. Many of the vets need help to get a leg up, and just looking out for the rich folk's tax burden isn't supporting the troops.
Besides, I didn't notice McCain claiming TANG deserter Bush or draft dodger Cheney weren't qualified to lead the country.
If McCain is such a maverick about the military, howcome his judgement about the Iraq invasion was fatal, howcome he disdains diplomacy first, howcome he approves and encourages torture and the use of crematoria as in Abu Ghraib, howcome he deprives the troops of body armor and health benefits when they get home, if they get home? Why is he against the GI Bill?
And of course, we have all those Bush administration folks with zero military service, so I suppose they can't address military issues, either.
(The Clinton videos are on YouTube and also at Americablog and TPM, BTW.)
garcia @ 9:
There's a legend that McCain started the fire by deliberately "wet-starting" his A4 which then touched off a rocket on an F-4 behind him. Difficult to prove whether this is what happened or not but he was transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred).
That's so weak. "You didnt serve so you cant criticize me!"
Ryoko @ 15
Here's the vid of it-
hillary
I felt it was my responsibility to NOT serve my country in uniform. I am opposed to war and opposed to serving in any organization that would require me to carry a gun, commit violence on another human being or property against the will of the owner or go to war. Did i serve my country? I think so. I spent a good portion of my time between 1973 and 1993 working as an unpaid volunteer running soup kitchens and homeless shelters. Most of the people i served were military veterans whose broken bodies and psychies came back home only to face an indifferent VA.
Is Community Organizing (as Obama did)serving one's country?
I say it is.
Oh, I think he's already sailed past the exploitative/crass line with his response to the bipartisan GI Bill. Providing no argument against Obama's criticism indicated he didn't have an argument, and attacking Obama over not having served was off the hip bluster because he didn't have a rebuttal.
Wearing his POW experience on his sleeve is nothing but empty rhetoric and it will be interesting to see how far over the line he ends up going.
John McCain made a career of the Navy for the same reason George Bush made one of crony capitalism: It was the family business. What strikes me about both is that they have very nasty tempers and seem mean enough to really want to reach out and hurt someone. Maybe that comes from domineering parents who overshadowed their lives. I don't know. I'm not a shrink. But I do know the world is far too dangerous a place for them or people like them to exercise power and authority.
Seems to me, despite McCain's military experience, he has problems with "enemy recognition" as shown by his support for the Iraq war from the beginning, and putting Afghanistan on the back burner. I don't see anything in his resume about command experience.
Obama, on the other hand, pointed out in 200 that going to war with Iraq would be a big mistake. This mistake has cost $500B so far in direct outlays, projected "tail" costs of $2T, 4000+ troops dead, and probably well over 100,000 Iraq dead.
This Iraq war has been nothing short of a fiasco. Meanwhile, McCain sings "♫♫ bomb, bomb, bomb ... bomb, bomb Iran ♫♫". America voted for the dumber of the two candidates 8 years ago, and we see the results today. I'm betting that America doesn't want another 4 years.
Well, McCain, by virtue of his free education at the USNA (and despite being near the bottom of his class) was _obligated_ to serve. I wonder what his options would have been if he'd just been John Smith, not-son-of-an-Admiral.
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sulphurdunn @ 30:
In George Bush's case i think he is far too dangerous a person to excersize power and authority.
.
McPlane Crasher says Obama can't fly a bomber...
McTORTURE says Obama can't give up information fast enough to the enemy...
Anti-McG.I. says Obama doen't support the troops...
McBush Appeaser says Obama doesn't support a Fascist regime...
.
GDliberal @ 27:
Why the hell did she bring that up??
Isn't AWOL....from the National Guard during a time of war also called....desertion?
Oh I forgot.....he's not running.
McInsane should'nt brag about his military service. He was responsible for the Forestall catastrophe that killed 170 US Sailors. It's a fact, look it up. He was the only airman, besides the dead and wounded, that was immediately taken to another ship. I am a Viet Nam vet, who suffers from PTSD, the asshole should'nt brag about his time locked up in a cage for five years either, that qualifies him for a straight jacket, not the presidency.
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galmud @ 36:
That was cut at both ends. Was she trying to say campiagns have gone into June before?
All any journalist need do is ask Mr. Magoo if he believes his BFF Bush to be a 'good' president. Knowing that McSame will answer in the affirmative, they can then ask him why he feels that Obama is not a derserving presidential candidate, as BUSH never served either.
The Rethus have nothing, and they know it.
sulphurdunn @ 30:
The other similar thing about Bush and McCain is that not only did they go through the same careers of their family, they were lousy at it. McCain was close to dead last in his class at the Naval Academy (894 out of 899) and screwed up several missions in Vietnam. Bush sent a few small corporations into bankruptcy and mismanaged an MLB team.
If McCain assumes that he, by virtue of his service, only has the 'right' to talk about military issues (at least with any credibility) then he is wrong, and again just wrong. First, Obama has a 'right' to talk on any issue (by virtue of the Constitution's Freedom of Speech clause), and as Obama is running for President and, like McCain, will potentially be Commander-in-Chief, he HAS to talk about military issues. Whether he has served in the military is irrelevant. All this episode shows is McCain as being an angry and prickly old man. Just take a look at who the current VP is (someone I'm sure he voted for) and he'll see that 'five-deferment' Dick Cheney had 'better things to do' than serving in the military. And Cheney is also a Republican like McCain. And yet Cheney and Bush (dubious Natl Guard stint) have sent soldiers off to a war that was ill-planned, ill-considered, ill-advised, and just plain 'ill', and McCain is as tied to that war as they are. One thing I doubt McCain would have done is make such a foolish decision. But who knows maybe he would have. So McCain may just wish to calm down before he has a coronary. For since he is of an older age he is more pre-disposed to such an affliction, I'll wager. Never mind what his medical records show.
xoites defends Constitution @ 41:
listening to it again its probably taken out of context but still..
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"For McCain, who supports the unpopular war in Iraq and is running in a tough year for Republicans, Obama’s lack of military experience may be his strongest line of attack in the fall."
Sez WHO? Oh, right, McCain, and that part of the media desperate for a story that won't require any deep thought from editorial or actual fact reporting from the news.
The rallying cry for campaign 2008 should be "Consider the Source".
Yawn, yawn, yawn, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
GDliberal @ 27:
Tough to say from that clip whether she is refering to her reason for staying in the race or something else . A little more context would be nice.
Oh, and fuck you, John McCain. Attacking Obama to disguise the fact that you hate the troops is pretty fucking disgusting .
Someone take mcSame aside and tell him you don't need to serve to do right by our servicepeople.
Hillary Clinton could say "The best days of America are ahead of us" and people would say,
Hey Shad Ap Bitch! No one asked for your opinion! Go to hell!
She can't make one sunshine and puppy dog statement or eve one hard cold truth statement without "They-Them" seeing some sinister evil plot behind it.
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His reaction to the question is an Adolescent tactic. Someone asks you something you know nothing about in the school-yard, in front of everybody and you can't answer, So you just blurt out "Your mother has a big ass".
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Why does'nt McLame go after Chimpy for the same reason?
chuckieboy @ 38:
Thanks for sharing with us. I agree with you and believe McSame should be in a straight-jacket as well.
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Hillary's comments were not out of context:
"4:35PM UPDATE: Note what Hillary's staff said earlier today, before she told the editorial board that she's waiting..."
Wolfson and McAuliffe both insist that she is not quitting and will campaign through the last primaries on June 3rd -- and until decisions are made on Michigan and Florida. They say she feels to do otherwise would be letting down her supporters. Despite the odds against her getting the nomination, Clinton aides say as long as people are still voting, there is always the chance something will happen and she ends up winning.
http://www.americablog.com/2008/05/breaking-hillary-reportedly-invoked.html
With this crap going on and super wimpy delegates staying on the sidelines, McCain will win no matter what he says, no matter what his pastors say, no matter what he does, no matter how many flip flops...
This comment right after Ted Kennedy leaves the hospital with an inoperable brain tumor.
Nice.
When your birthday is August 4, 1961, it would be pretty difficult to enlist or get drafted in 1972 when you are only 11 years old.
I joined the USAF in 1976 at 21 years old. I did not get drafted.
Obama does not need to apologize for not serving in Vietnam.
I'm tired of hearing McSame referred to as a "war hero."
Bombing innocent civilians from 30,000 feet does NOT make one a war hero. Rather it brands one as a war criminal.
I served with real war heros in Vietnam who actually engaged "the enemy" on a personal bayonet to bayonet level. True, like Iraq, the "Vietnam War" was an illegal, immoral war we should have never permitted, and like Iraq, there were American men and women who served with honor and distinction. McSame was not one of them. He was simply caught and imprisoned for murdering civilians.
It's time for vets throughout the U.S. to publicly take a stand by pointing out the fact that John McSame is no hero.
ezpz @ 57:
First, she did immediately, after the MSM began airing and blasting her for her comments, apologize to the Kennedy family for her statements. Full text available
on Yahoo News.
Second, you are, like many, hanging your weak position on statements that easily
can be misconstrued or interpreted..."She's waiting"...sure she is, waiting to see the
results of Florida and Michigan conflict and the Super delegates. Same goes for "something can happen and she will end up winning"...Again, that statement
is accurate as far as he camp is concerned...for the Florida/Michigan/super delegate
final results are not know today.
Thirdly, to be redundant, to repeat and say again..."I am not a Hillary supporter"; but
it is my humble opinion that the MSM is full of shit,(all inclusive) and that the best thing
we can all do is to find alternative means of news...Turn off you TV's.
"Ad Hominem" attacks. Delightful John. Only proves that you really have nothing of merit to say and proves Obama right to campaign against the some old politics. This country deserves better, this country needs better. Obviously you aren't really offering anything better. Keep it up and you'll definitely be witnessing the oath from the spectator gallery.
The chickenhawk/bootlickers swiftboated Kerry (an Actual Combat Vet.). McCain never saw or led any soldiers in combat. I lost all respect for McCain when he licked the boots of Bush - the coward in chief - after the way they attacked him in 2000. They played the race card when they accused McCain of fathering a black child. Which means he put his party ahead of his family and what was best for the country and supported Bush. I voted for Clinton in Pa. primary, but i will have no problem supporting and voting for Obama as our next President. I also would have supported Edwards. There is very little differrence in their policies.
hey !!! Obama is the son of a veteran, so that counts...
(don't it??)
Doggiebobo @ 61:
I heard no apology. I guess if you consider one of those non apology apologies like "I regret if anyone was offended...", then she apologized.
And why apologize to the Kennedys only? Why not to her "opponent"?? (How disgusting that she rarely refers to him by name.)
First Huckabee at the NRA, now Hillary.
No, there's no way this can be spun to make okay.
mccain is a dumbass that is suffering from shell shock.
I served in the military for the likes of an US under Sen. Obama's direction, I wouldn't even think about serving in the military under mcbush's direction.
Get real mcasshole, your VP probably won't have military service either.
"McCain’s service isn’t relevant to his Senate votes that undercut those currently wearing the uniform." The perfect summation.
Oh good! You guys are talking about hitman hill stupid comment.
Isn't it curious that mccain and hillary's camp want to rub out Sen. Obama?
the superdelegates are keeping this open to appease hill.
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Richard @ 20:
Hear hear, USN '62-'68, stick it McSame.
Keith will have Special Comments about this tonight.
ezpz @ 71:
About Hillary's assass....comment
The recognition McCain has received from veterans groups is not “high awards” but failing grades:
— Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave McCain a grade of D for his record of voting against veterans. (By contrast, Obama got a B+.)
– Disabled Veterans of America noted McCain’s dismal 20 percent voting record on veterans’ issues. (Obama had an 80 percent.)
– In a list of “Key Votes,” Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) notes McCain “Voted Against Us” 15 times and “Voted For Us” only 8. (Obama voted for VVA 12 times, and against only once.)
Whoop, forgot link
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/23/mccain-vet-awards/
J.H. @ 59:
Exactly. He was a child during the Viet Nam war, and too old for the Gulf War, and too old for Bosnia, etc., so what could he have done during peacetime except make a career of the military, which was not his duty nor his stripe.
It's a totally moot point. Nobody in my generation except as a career move served in the military.
Hmmm... After pondering the comment senator McCain has proffered, I'm still unsure how this excuses his voting against support of servicemen and women.
ezpz @ 72:
You hear Reagan aides are excited because they are seeing glimmers of Reagan in Obama?
So that mean Obama is gonna sell the Iranians weapons and smuggle cocaine and crack and sell it in our inner cities ruining thousands of Americans lives like Reagan did..?
L.A. Confidential @ 77:
Your better than this comment, LA - unless I'm missing subtle humor.
Blue Lensman @ 78:
I'm imitating the MSM.
I dare McCain to pick the Gov of Florida as his running mate. I can see the headlines now:
John and Charlie together again for the Vietnam of a new Millenium.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 53:
I have actually recall people saying you have a boogie showing to deflect answering a hard question. Same childish shit.
the fact that obama has lived his entire life in black skin has been a far more difficult obstacle than anything that ignorant mccain has ever dealt with or will ever deal with. fuck that dumb motherfucker.
L.A. Confidential @ 79:
I missed it . . long week . .
Who the F does McSame think he is!! How long has he backed an administration in war started by Two Asses who never served a day, and Bush never served a day, in our armed forces!! McSame makes this veteran sick with his BS and his votes against the veterans of this country consistently yet he receives 100% disability from the VA. What a F'n liar and people are actually gonna vote for this bastard!
Temper, temper, McYellowteeth...
Blue Lensman @ 83:
When the 2008 elections are over will history show that media pundits, from every arena, ruthlessly and impiously victimized their every reader, viewer, or listener by their twenty-four-seven relentless and intentional political rhetoric created not for substantive, informative, and balanced reporting, but for selfish gains?
Let McCain make this argument, its rooted in his explosive temper, and in the end he is going to look like an even bigger jackass.
This old fool is really not that bright and his temper will do him in and make him do extraordinarily stupid things, like touting his service when passing on the chance to do something for those he *says* he supports.
Another lie exposed.
Let's see, John McCain was such a hot-shot "maverick" pilot, he was able to get himself shot down in Vietnam, was unable to avoid capture (I know, he was injured), made unpatriotic (some would say, traitorous) videos, under duress, which were widely disseminated by the enemy. So we honor his service. After all, he did volunteer (as a family tradition), served his nation, and suffered through captivity and torture.
Yet, he sees nothing wrong with holding prisoners at Guantanamo without rights, dismantling habeas corpus and voting FOR the CIA's ability to torture. Virtually every prediction he's made about the Iraq war has be proved false, he's backed Bush on almost every issue and even said he would have voted AGAINST his own brothers-in-arms re: The New G.I. Bill for the 21st Century and was AWOL for the actual vote. Perhaps a better question might be, "What has John McCain done right in the past four years that he hasn't already rejected and/or denounced?" Gosh, if I could just get over to Iraq, get captured, tortured, and released, then I, too, would be qualified to run for President! And with gas prices as high as they are, I sure could use the raise in pay!!
What does mccain have to say about mitt's sons not serving in chimpy's war now?
mcfossil.
I suggest McBush and Obama take a tour of Walter Reed together, and each can explain his vote on Jim Webb's new GI Bill.
L.A. Confidential @ 86:
No.
J.H. @ 59:
No. But like you, he could have enlisted. Its about service no matter if there's a war on or not.
Johnny2Bad @ 92:
That doesn't disqualify Obama from being a good president anymore than it qualifies McCain for being a good president.
Johnny2Bad @ 92:
It's also a choice. One can serve one's country w/o doing it militarily.
It's a stupid argument.
How does Hillary mentioning an historical event regarding Democratic primaries and Conventions become a 'hit job' threat to Sen Obama?
Some people will grasp at ANYTHING to go after this woman. This has gone from comical to insulting to deranged.
McBush is a corrupt Neo-nazi republican. This stupid S.O.B cleary is hiding behind our troops today. You know the 21st century.
Ron @ 95:
And the din is bringing us perilously close to the point where words become trivial.
I am a Vietnam Veteran......DaNang 1968 - 1969 MACV. If my history is correct, didn't John (I'm a Hero) McCain crash four jets before being shot down in North Vietnam. Didn't he collaborate with the enemy in order to receive medical attention and then informed his captors that he was the son of a Navy Admiral in order to raise his value as a "live prisoner of war?" Oh, and didn't he graduate from the Naval Academy in the bottom 1% of his class. Just asking, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I've got the wrong McCain. Nahhhhhhhhh. My Colonel told me HEROES don't get caught, they escape within the first five minutes or it's a done deal.
Been There........Done That
abarts @ 96:
Wow, where did people say that, and take it to that level?
To stick to the res of this thread my simple wish is that John McCain extensive experience in crashing airplanes will serve him well in November.
Why did McCain surrender to the enemy?
Why did McCain aid the enemy while he was a prisoner?
Why did Admiral Daddy make sure Junior wasn't found at fault on the USS Forrestal?
Marcus Taylor @ 99:
When you're right, you're right and you are right.
BFD. McCain too dumb to realize that people don't think anymore "he wasn't in the military so can't say anything." That's like saying a male can't discuss women's rights or that only football players can talke about football. Utterly stupid.
GDliberal @ 28:
I don't want to veer off the subject (and I have plenty to say about that too), but Hillary Clinton has hit a new low in my book. I can't believe that she would say such a thing about another candidate. In fact, I have never heard a presidential candidate say such a thing about another. Come on now, there are other female politicians out there with a lot more credibility and service to the country than this woman, and everyone knows it. Why must we tolerate her any longer?
On the McCain attack about Obama's lack of military service: Sen. McCain just needs to pipe down. If he takes this too far, it is fair game to delve into his service as "Songbird". If that entire episode in the Hanoi Hilton is true, and he aided and abetted the enemy, then the American public ought to know exactly what he did during his time as a POW. And he knows he doesn't want to go there.
Johnny2Bad @ 92:
Did Hillary ever enlist? What about Bill? Just asking.
Wait until the debates. Obama will decimate him.
The Hillary campaign has disappeared from the news. Has it been decided she is toast? (I'm an """Obamazoid""" anyway, but, still... )
Aside:
Definition #3 of decimate. (I love my on-line Encrata dictionary programme!)
3. kill one person in 10: to kill one out of every ten people, especially in a body of mutinous soldiers (archaic)
Sounds like a Republican wet dream (to use on the public): control the population. Obey. Blackwater-- coming soon? Vote McSame?
Actually, Obama has the same military record as 99% of the Bush administration.
Military service, the willingness to risk one's life to preserve the lives and property of your fellow citizens. And, based on Hillary's recent comments, when one runs for President one is doing exactly that as some sordid moments in American history has unfortunately shown.
I've never quite understood how McCranky earned his "war hero" badge. He was shot down, captured, tortured, and held captive by the enemy. Sounds like really bad luck to me. He admits in his book that he lasted a few days before breaking. No shame in that. He was kept alive because of his family name.
Out of empathy, I can feel sorry for what he went through. In many ways, I'm sure he suffers almost every day, perhaps more now that he's getting older. But a war hero? Compared to the thousands upon thousands of lesser known soldiers who came back broken, or missing pieces of their bodies, or who never came back?
Perhaps you could argue that it would be an advantage for the POTUS to have commanded troops, but even then the lack of that experience shouldn't disqualify someone. The CIC needs to be able to think strategically. Obama has certainly proved that, and McCranky hasn't.
Finally, as many have pointed out, McCranky has shown a lack of understanding of military strategy, has chosen party over country again and again, has sold what soul/reputation he may once have had prior to 2000 for a shot at the presidency, and with his recent lack of support for the new GI bill has chosen party over the troops.
For all this, especially the last one, he should be called out EVERY time he tries to invoke his military service. All Obama has to do is mention that Warner and Hagel supported the new GI bill, which was spearheaded by Webb.
Man, I am SOOOO looking forward to the presidential debates this fall. Jingle, jingle, jingle...
This is funny. John McCain is known among many of his Vietnam flight buddies as "Ace" McCain. This title was not been bestowed upon McCain because he destroyed five enemy aircraft. On the contrary: It was five of his own. Since throwing his hat into the presidential ring, the fact that McCain was graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy nearly at the bottom of his class has been publicized. His flying, on the other hand, remains unknown to most.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_11_16/ai_61361646
While I admire and respect anyone who can earn a seat in a combat aircraft, like George W Bush, McCain's carreer was less than stellar.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say publicly that John McCain is not a war hero. John McCain is a pilot who was shot down and held prisoner. This does not make a war hero. Audy Murphy was a war hero. Why do people insist on kneeling down before McCain simply because he was held hostage for a period of time? To call him a hero denigrates those who truly are heroes. The guy is verging on making me sick.
President PNACcio @ 111:
McCain didn't earn any seat in a combat aircraft. he got it because he was an admiral's son. Just like he got his slot in the Naval Academy. Just like Shrub. These people don't live in the same world as you and me. They get things handed to them on a silver platter and never have to do anything to earn any of it. Just like the article said. Any normal pilot with as many fu@% ups as McCant had would have been swabbing the deck before it was all over.
I cringe every time Obama calls him a true American hero. I understand its just politics but a hero he is not. He just got caught after he was shot down. If he wanted to be a true hero he would have avoided capture by doing himself in. Now we have to live with his sorry ass.
I kinda thought McCain would have been more concerned about a coward who was on the same bill as he, at the NRA convention in Louieville, Kentucky. That would be Ted Nugent who boasted of urinating and defecating his pants a week before reporting for his draft board physical to avoid serving in a war that McCain became a hero. Now that goes well beyond the theory of "Strange Bedfellows". McCain keeps this up he'll have to explain to Vietnam vets about the company he keeps.
It got me so pissed off when Grandpa Munster declared that he didn't have to listen to Obama because he'd never worn the uniform... what the fuck kind of place do we have here, Sparta?! Well, unfortunately, the old man is wrong about that, this is NOT Sparta, contrary to popular belief, but America, where something called a CONSTITUTION used to value human rights, the rule of law, and civilian control of our military.
Also, it's the biggest damn red herring I've seen all week, he's avoiding the question. I want to like McCain better than some other wingnuts, but unfortunately it appears he's not going to give me much choice if I continue to support truth and freedom.
As a vet myself, NOT having served does not offend me. What DOES offend me is morons like McCain and Bush shoving it in our face every 20-seconds like only THEY have served and are equipped to handle the duties associated with Commander in Chief.
We have witnessed how that's turned out the past 8 years.
The best leaders we've had in the past 40 years have been Democratic presidents with past military experience who use diplomacy and restraint FIRST, and military action as a last resort (JFK and Carter).
If we recall, the WORST leaders in the past 40 years have been guys that waved the flag and shouted dogma at the top of their lungs, while running our country into the ground economically as the hallucinated that they were either a cowboy or acting in some c-grade war movie. Oh, and the Democrat who fell into the job because of murder, was just as bad as the two republican preznits...so I am an equal opporturnity basher. (LBJ, Bushx2 and Reagan).
And then there was Nixon, who in light of Chimpy's antics, looks like a damn normal person....freakin' scary as that sounds....that used John McCains Beach Boy song ad nauseum before McCaid did (bomb, bomb, bomb...bomb, bomb the 'Nam)
Yeah right and the republican party is crammed full of Non vets also known as "chicken hawks" who never served one day in the military but they are quick to send other peoples kids to die and get maimed in an unjust war and then there's the chimp who having heard a rumor that his unit was getting deployed to Vietnam did what a true coward would do and that is he not only went AWOL, he deserted. The bottom line is military service doesn't have anything to do with being POTUS.
garcia @ 10:
Yes they did and McCrazy's daddy pulled him out of a situation that should have sent McLame to Leavenworth and then kicked out of the navy with a dishonorable discharge, all because McStupid wanted to play with his engine that ended up killing over 100 sailors and NOTHING was done about it. I would like to see anybody who was on that flight deck that day to come forward and tell the world what really happened that tragic day so long ago!
Ah, I see - as a Senator, you're only allowed to have an opinion and give a vote on a bill if you've had direct prior experience in that area. That's good to know!
bigironal @ 119:
Maybe some special interest group that supports Obama could dig up information on this and find the people who were there. Kinda like the Swift Boat fiasco, expect this would be based on facts and the truth.
Frybread @ 121:
Good idea......it will be the equivalent to Swift Boating adventures of 2004, only with more substance.
McCain can't target anyone about anything. His own "experience" is worthless. He enlisted in another of our moronic imperialistic invasions and got himself tortured. I'm sorry he got tortured. But that hardly adds up to judgment or wisdom. He obviously lacks both, as he supported and supports the current moronic imperialistic invasion in Iraq.
xoites defends Constitution @ 29:
Is Community Organizing (as Obama did)serving one's country?
YES
Lets put this way I prefer the veterans of Smedly Butler, Harry Truman, and JFK. I don't prefer the ones like MacArthur, Shrub or McBush.
xoites defends Constitution @ 29:
I call that self serving. You sacraficed nothing.
Certainly McCain, who barely made it out of the Naval Academy and needed extra help to pass his flight tests, should never the less be cited for his "heroism" in Vietnam. But, there's a catch:
Unlike thousands of others like Chuck Hagel, Jim Webb, John Kerry, and more, McCain did not slog through the jungles for months and years on end under hails of enemy bullets and suffer the wounds that gave Hagel, Webb and countless others their medals and commendations.
While McCain braved the elements in aircraft carrier take offs and landings, he flew above the fray, and in his twenty-something missions, fired rockets and bombs at enemy / civilian targets.
That he endured five years of imprisonment and torture is laudable, it is not heroic.
If Obama is not qualified to be president because he didn't serve, how come Dick Cheney is qualified to be Vice President? And what about Rumsfeld?
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