At the moment Obama is "The Only Game In Town", but that WILL change. Like so many politicians he is thinking only in the short-term. In the long term, he's screwing himself. As are Pelosi, Reid and many others. They may win this round, but they'll lose the match.

calling every hour on the hour, emailing all good senators...this is a deal breaker here

he is throwing it all away!!!

Obama, listen, all you have to do is the right thing, you know what that is. this is where you earn that money we been sending you.

do not be a punk on this

you are a sucker if you think Obama is an anti-establishment candidate.

the man surrounds himself with the creme de la creme of the elite establishment. His advisors are all establishment. CFR, Trilaterals, and a Skull n Bones thrown in for good measure.

If he steps out of line from the establishment, his secret service will deja vu a Dallas standdown.

did move on back the wrong candidate in the primary?

I love it!! He clinches the nomination and then starts showing his TRUE loyalties. Imagine what he'll morph into once he's inaugurated??

I don't give a shit what anybody says (and yes I got through to his campaign telephone bank), I have unsubscribed from the Obama campaign and they have lost my money and enthusiasm until I see how this plays out. There is no label that fits me assholes; liberal progressive, lofty Obamamaniac. When you vote for a bill that extends lawlessness to some of the biggest crooks in the games and eviscerate the 4th amendment to boot, you're a fuck-up in my book. A plain and simple Fuck-Up.

This what I say on the Obama blogs to keep from being called a troll...

"All we ask is that Mr. Obama keep his promises! That's all he has to do."

Short and sweet.

John @ 8:

"Click here"?

Click where? I see no link.

I called by the way.

Click on the line in blue below the word CLICK.

RemyDan @ 6:

It cracks me up that sites like Americablog that railed against Hillary 24/7 for the most frivolous crap are now making up excuses for his FISA 'compromise'. In fact, if you even bring up the subject, you will be banned from the site. Obamaniacs are some of the most hypocritical fanatics ever.

Do you have a link to where they are "making up excuses"?

I don't care what party anyone belongs to as long as they adhere to the constitution, and I have voted for Nader once. If Obama doesn't stand strong on this issue then, it is possible he will lose in this election.

One lesson I learn in history is that if elected leaders failed to represent the majority of the people and not allow a peaceful revolution of open representing the will of the people, then it will inevitably result in a violent revolution. This form of hampering freedom of speech by govt monitoring,as oppose to what the people are saying is a very strong threat to allowing small peaceful revolution. In the spirit of "give me liberty or give me death" The framework for freedom as set forth by our founding father is all that stand between having a fascist form of govt.

All it takes is for Feingold and Obama, to keep up a filibuster with today's senate rules. If that doesn't work, either one can always place a hold on it to deny unanimous consent and keep the bill off the floor.

I'm taking a Congress class, by the way. Oh, and here's me dissing a hateful Republican. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDc2mmBqrh8&feature=email

Amato: Your credulity surprises me. Obama approved this profound betrayal. His forthcoming Kabuki performance will be staged for the benefit of fools and the willfully blind.

Cmon, we've been manipulated once again, as far as this Presidential election is concerned, into a choice between the lesser of two evils.

Real change would have been a candidate who supported single-payer health insurance, an end to expensive nation building wars, and an end to free trade to be replaced by bilateral treaties that protect labor rights and the environment.

Now, Obama is clearly the lesser of the two evils and I will definitely vote for him. But, I'm not expecting a whole lot. Hope he gets a lot of good people into his administration to help him out.

Note to the above posters: once immunity is granted, it cannot be overturned. And once this bill passes, immunity is guaranteed, because the judicial authority vested in granting immunity is only allowed by this bill to listen to the telcos tell him/her that the government told the telco it was legal to wiretap, and if he/she hears the telco say so, he is required to respond with immunity; the judge cannot ask for further confirming information.

Prediction:

Al Gore will be the nominee for the Dems.

I'm sick and tired of Mr. Obama claiming to be something he is not.

4 1/2 months is a long time from now.

GORE IN '08!

To all disillusioned Obama-worshippers:

Obama will do what he damn well pleases. He knows you're going to vote for him anyway. I mean, are you really going to vote for McCain? Stay home? What?

News flash: he doesn't need your approval anymore. Just like he doesn't need support from Rev. Wright and Trinity Church anymore.

You have no where else to go; he is now beginning his move to the "center" in order to court the independents. Accept it. You have to.

Call made; filibuster request voiced.

Dean @ 31:

To all disillusioned Obama-worshippers:

Obama will do what he damn well pleases. He knows you're going to vote for him anyway. I mean, are you really going to vote for McCain? Stay home? What?

News flash: he doesn't need your approval anymore. Just like he doesn't need support from Rev. Wright and Trinity Church anymore.

You have no where else to go; he is now beginning his move to the "center" in order to court the independents. Accept it. You have to.

I'm and Independent and he needs to move back. If he shows he's the same old, same old he's going to lose a lot of support. He'll be portrayed as hypocritical my mcsame and barr.

This week will be Obama's red pill/blue pill test. If he does not filibuster the FISA bill, we will know he is an ordinary politician with a slightly unusual message and our life will go on with the elite, superrich,and corporations in charge, as usual. If he rises up and animates the forces against it, we will know that this is change we can believe in. I am an Obamacan either way but will be very crushed if he is not the One. [Wikipedia: Morpheus believes that Neo is "the One", a man prophesied to end the war through his limitless control over the Matrix.]

Remydem: I don't hear Hillary speaking out against FISA

We're not fools. We know Senator Obama isn't the Second Coming of the Democrat Party. However, we* have something he wants. Which are votes to get elected President. If he's worried about even the possibility of losing them through bad publicity, we* can influence him towards at least some of the things we* want by continued scrutiny and public pressure on him. Right now, we* have more power over him than we* ever will again.

*not me personally because I'm Australian but you get what I mean.

You know, the comments here are very disheartening. The bill hasn't even reached the floor of the Senate yet; Obama hasn't had a chance to do anything yet; but most of you seem to have given up and condemned him before the fact. Did your mystic crystal ball reveal something to you that the rest of us aren't privy to? Did you have a divine revelation? Why don't you all stop the negativity, at least until such time as you actually have something to bitch about. In other words, stop the whining and give the man a chance.

.

Q U E S T I O N:

Why is Congress debating FISA?

Was it that FISA broke...
Or was it that the president broke the law...?

This "COMPROMISE" is to amend FISA to "ALLOW" for the "IMMUNITY" of Telecom communication CORPORATIONS for "WARRANTLESSLY" spying on Americans, past, present and future.

Isn’t it because BushCo violated the existing FISA and Constitutional laws that Congress is revisiting FISA? I mean, CONgress acts like FISA broke when in reality FISA WAS VIOLATED. And now, they’re attempting to “COMPROMISE” FISA into allowing the president to order illegal activity AGAINST the American people.

… WHAT’S ACCEPTABLE ABOUT THAT?

Who buys a car from the salesman knowing the breaks are “COMPROMISED” on the assurance that it stops on a dime? I’m sorry, I don’t buy those kind of cars… FOOL!

Too bad Obama couldn't say something to the effect, "I do not support the immunity provision contained within this bill and therefore I can not support this type of "COMPROMISED" bill."

Now he says he'll "TRY" to get the immunity removed...?
Just like he's "TRYING" to hold the criminal Bush/Cheney Administration accountable by not doing a damn thing(!)?

THERE IS NO TRY... ONLY DO!

Senator Obama took an Oath to DEFEND and SUPPORT American's Rights, Freedoms, and Liberties.
How is Senator Obama supporting and defending our Rights, Freedoms, and Liberties by even accepting "COMPROMISED" legislation that VIOLATES our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties?

There is a reason flies swarm around this cow pie.
There is a reason to this stench.
There is a reason why the weeds grow thick in the halls of CONgress.

.

Obama is running for President of the United States and not President of the Democratic Party.

This is a issue of the left, not a issue of the American people. And please don't give me that Constitution crap because more people have read the Koran in this country then have read the Constitution outside of some school assignment.

If I can't sue AT&T for listening to me having phone sex but it gives Obama the compromise to push through more important legislation on the economy, health care, education, energy/environment and the war.....THEN SO BE IT!

He was going to piss off the Left at some point because he HAS to piss off the Left if he wants to effectively govern the entire nation and have credibility with the rest of the world. I wouldn't vote for telecom immunity, and he isn't either, but if it passes then it passes.....so be it.

Dissent @ 44:

I'm not defending him, but how can Obama support a filibuster that no one starts? Has Dodd or anyone else said that they will definitely filibuster?

Instead of John Cusack doing a video asking if we can tell McCain from Bush, maybe someone should do an ad asking if we can tell the Democrats from the Republicans if they go along with horrible legislation like this.

Well I am defending him. And I'm supporting your position too. The Democratic Congress hasn't done a damn thing in the two years it has been in office except for raise minimum wage but all of a sudden Obama is the enemy within the ranks because he can't single handedly stop telecom immunity??? This is where the far left looks as crazy as the far right and most of the country (like me) migrate to the center.

Otay @ 46:

RemyDan @ 6:

It cracks me up that sites like Americablog that railed against Hillary 24/7 for the most frivolous crap are now making up excuses for his FISA 'compromise'. In fact, if you even bring up the subject, you will be banned from the site. Obamaniacs are some of the most hypocritical fanatics ever.

You do realize that Hillary did not even bother to vote on FISA last time it came up in the senate?

Guess who the other 2 Senators were who didn't vote on this bill last time?
I'll give ya a hint, One of them is a Republican.

Otay @ 27:

Note to the above posters: once immunity is granted, it cannot be overturned. And once this bill passes, immunity is guaranteed, because the judicial authority vested in granting immunity is only allowed by this bill to listen to the telcos tell him/her that the government told the telco it was legal to wiretap, and if he/she hears the telco say so, he is required to respond with immunity; the judge cannot ask for further confirming information.

I'm not so sure about that. First of all, we're talking about immunity for a civil matter. A bill isn't needed for criminal matters, since the President can pardon.

I believe the constitutionality of this law could be challenged, as any law could be challenged. It's quite clear that the intent of the bill is to negate the 4th amendment. When I was educated, way back when, we were taught that amendments were negated by repeal which required ratification of the several states. The bill has the intent and purpose of mandating no consequences for the willful and intentional violation of constitutional rights. These telcos have sophisticated law departments that could evaluate the legality of the government's request. This bill is clearly meant to send a message to present and future companies, that if you cooperate with the government in violating American's rights, that the government will protect you. It's a license to commit crimes, as the transformation of the government from being a country of laws into a country of men continues.

I think the whole thing is a little more comprehensive than just wiretapping. I think that there may have been a quid pro quo where the telcos were allowed to regain monopoly status in exchange for the wiretapping. A competing idea that was destroyed in 2002 by the FCC was that captive customers had paid for the last mile of copper during the prior monopoly era, and that this "last mile" should be equally available to all providers. Now, we're seeing that the cable and dsl providers (duopoly) are talking about bandwidth caps. They talk about bit torrent, but I think the ultimate aim is to ensure that the internet doesn't become an alternative broadcast medium interfering with the propaganda masquerading as news from the corporate media. With multiple dsl providers, this probably wouldn't happen. The model in the broadcast media being repeated in internet is "restraint of competition".

My computer has a "tv out" on the video card - love it.

mudshark @ 51:

Otay @ 46:

RemyDan @ 6:

It cracks me up that sites like Americablog that railed against Hillary 24/7 for the most frivolous crap are now making up excuses for his FISA 'compromise'. In fact, if you even bring up the subject, you will be banned from the site. Obamaniacs are some of the most hypocritical fanatics ever.

You do realize that Hillary did not even bother to vote on FISA last time it came up in the senate?

Guess who the other 2 Senators were who didn't vote on this bill last time?
I'll give ya a hint, One of them is a Republican.

Look up above, and you will see what I think of Obama on this. And read about what I was responding to: someone who implies that Hillary would have done anything different.

Most important, just read.

Can't he filibuster this bill himself? I expect leadership if he is really a democratic candidate for the White House.

As far as I'm concerned this bill does nothing to protect the original FISA. The laws were clear and were broken by the Bush administration. All this bill does is pretend that we are a nation of laws while saving telecomunication companies from criminal charges because they broke the law.

We should not have a new FISA bill, we should prosecute those who broke it.

I have my eyes open and his apologists better open theirs.

Mudshark, I apologize for the tone of my voice at the end of my previous post.

Shan @ 41:

We're not fools. We know Senator Obama isn't the Second Coming of the Democrat Party. However, we* have something he wants. Which are votes to get elected President. If he's worried about even the possibility of losing them through bad publicity, we* can influence him towards at least some of the things we* want by continued scrutiny and public pressure on him. Right now, we* have more power over him than we* ever will again.

*not me personally because I'm Australian but you get what I mean.

how can you influence him when he can't seem to deliver n one of the most important things that exist for americans (or should be, that is). . . the U.S. Constitution?

Besides getting rid of the immunity, aren't there other amendments to this that are worse than the original bill? I believe the 72 hrs requirement for a warrant has been lengthed to 7 days. Also if the courts stop the wiretap, it can be appealed thus giving an additional 60 days pending said appeal. Another is that they will be able to wiretap Americans phone calls even if they are out of the country. The immunity part is to cover up for Congress. They knew about this before 9-11. Bush must have some good dirt on Palosi and Reed as well as traitors Hagel and Rockefeller. Obama needs not only to support a filibuster, he needs to keep this bill from getting to a vote. He needs to show up for this and prove he really is a Constitutional Scholar. We will see.

I've sent off a note to everyone on my email list to call Obama Headquarters and tell him to Filibuster.

Meanwhile on another front::

GOP fears Barr could spoil McCain's bid
Posted: 11:00 AM ET
Former Republican Rep. Bob Barr
Former Republican Rep. Bob Barr

ATLANTA (AP) — A fiery former GOP congressman who gained national prominence for doggedly pursuing impeachment of President Clinton has some Republicans worried he'll play spoiler in a tight presidential contest.

Bob Barr's Libertarian Party bid for the White House is the longest of long shots, but political experts say he may be able to exploit the unease some die-hard conservatives still feel about Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee-in-waiting. Combined with the surge in turnout among Democrats during the primaries and a difficult political climate for Republicans, they see what could be a recipe for trouble for the GOP.

Dean @ 31:

To all disillusioned Obama-worshippers:

Obama will do what he damn well pleases. He knows you're going to vote for him anyway. I mean, are you really going to vote for McCain? Stay home? What?

News flash: he doesn't need your approval anymore. Just like he doesn't need support from Rev. Wright and Trinity Church anymore.

You have no where else to go; he is now beginning his move to the "center" in order to court the independents. Accept it. You have to.

Buyer's remorse.

Mister Anderson @ 62:

Otay @ 50:

Mister Anderson @ 47:

Obama is running for President of the United States and not President of the Democratic Party.

This is a issue of the left, not a issue of the American people.

Bullshit. It is an issue supported across the spectrum among the American citizenry, from civil libertarians, to strict constitutionalists, to those who value the rule-of-law; from Dems to Repubs, from liberals to conservatives.

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

This is the #1 REASON why even though a majority of this nation is privately liberal, they don't vote Democratic because you try to speak to the people through powerpoint presentations, conspiracy theories, and go batshit crazy and eat your own on most issues the average person just does not care about. If the left gets off of its intellectually superior high horse and learn that in politics, you have to give to get, then maybe more things will get done for the good of all people.

If you don't like Obama's decision then by all means voice your displeasure. But to start calling him a wolf in sheep's clothing and saying you won't support him when the other option is McCain is just ridiculous! Russ Feingold is not getting elected President of this country. Rachel Maddow is not going to be the host of Meet The Press.

You guys have to start living in reality for what it is and change it from the inside out, instead of trying to live in reality for what you want it to be and try to change it from the outside in.

Dear Mr. Anderson,
They did a study, people jump off bridges...

PLEASE DO SO.

.

Mister Anderson @ 47:

Obama is running for President of the United States and not President of the Democratic Party.

This is a issue of the left, not a issue of the American people. And please don't give me that Constitution crap because more people have read the Koran in this country then have read the Constitution outside of some school assignment.

If I can't sue AT&T for listening to me having phone sex but it gives Obama the compromise to push through more important legislation on the economy, health care, education, energy/environment and the war.....THEN SO BE IT!

He was going to piss off the Left at some point because he HAS to piss off the Left if he wants to effectively govern the entire nation and have credibility with the rest of the world. I wouldn't vote for telecom immunity, and he isn't either, but if it passes then it passes.....so be it.

Most people in this country probably can't understand either the Koran or the Constitution and trust others to interpret them for them. That's how we got into this GWOT mess to start with.

The US Constitution...without it, all of us likely would be interned in some godforsaken corner of the West for daring to cross Dubya's attention, and would likely never know even why we were charged. That's despotism for you.

To abandon the Constitution in the US is like asking the Japanese to start speaking Yanomamo and adopt Yanomamo ways of life. It would rip the heart out of America, and to call it "crap" is to show disrespect to the guarantee of our freedoms.

Obama is pandering to a block of voters who will never vote for him because they think he's muslim, and because he's black, also known as modern-day conservatives.

I almost considered voting for this guy because there's no chance in hell of voting McCain who's only a conservative by association, but after that shameful speech Obama made at AIPAC, and his pandering on Fisa.. I may as well stay home or vote for Barr.

SlowBurn @ 72:

♠Bangkok Bob♥ @ 65:

I've sent off a note to everyone on my email list to call Obama Headquarters and tell him to Filibuster.

Meanwhile on another front::

GOP fears Barr could spoil McCain's bid
Posted: 11:00 AM ET
Former Republican Rep. Bob Barr
Former Republican Rep. Bob Barr
****
please don't change the subject . . .this is much too important to go "off-topic." hanks.

ATLANTA (AP) — A fiery former GOP congressman who gained national prominence for doggedly pursuing impeachment of President Clinton has some Republicans worried he'll play spoiler in a tight presidential contest.

Bob Barr's Libertarian Party bid for the White House is the longest of long shots, but political experts say he may be able to exploit the unease some die-hard conservatives still feel about Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee-in-waiting. Combined with the surge in turnout among Democrats during the primaries and a difficult political climate for Republicans, they see what could be a recipe for trouble for the GOP.

please don’t change the subject . . .this is much too important to go “off-topic.” Thanks

I'm sorry Mr. Anderson but this is hardly a Left/Right issue. I'm very moderate compared to some here but I am in favor of defending the Constitution. I am old enough to remember, barely, the McCarthy era where people were blackballed for a decade or more, thrown into prison, and more for demanding simply what this bill is giving away to the fascists among us. I remember vividly the Civil Rights and AntiViet war era where these same authorities were attempted to be seized by certain fascists in the government to spy on civilians, disrupt their employment, put them in jail or more for saying or believing no more than appear on these blogs every hour. When your boss calls you in for a little chat tomorrow morning to summarily fire you merely because you opened up Crooks and Liars for a quick read this afternoon, it will be too late for us to help you.

Otay @ 27:

Note to the above posters: once immunity is granted, it cannot be overturned.

An EFF attorney told me today that they would certainly litigate against the application of any immunity and that they will appeal it as far as they can go.

Another reason to love the EFF and to throw some money their way to support their efforts.

Mister Anderson @ 62:

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

You don't even know what the hell you are arguing against me about. I am talking about telecom immunity, which 57% of voters oppose, and only 1/3 agree with:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ACLU_poll_Majority_opposes_telecom_immunit...

This is the #1 REASON why even though a majority of this nation is privately liberal, they don't vote Democratic because you try to speak to the people through powerpoint presentations, conspiracy theories, and go batshit crazy and eat your own on most issues the average person just does not care about. If the left gets off of its intellectually superior high horse and learn that in politics, you have to give to get, then maybe more things will get done for the good of all people.

What is it about "unconstitutional" is not a left-versus-right issue that you don't understand? It has nothing to do with your silly "conspiracy theory" theory.

Don't blame me, I voted for Clintos.

Telecom immunity is only the lightning rod, there is much more to this treachery.

It makes legal much of what was ILLEGAL that was done by Bush and known about by the Congress while the Democrats were campaigning on civil liberties and the need for the rule of law.

IT IS WHAT ANY CRIMINAL WOULD LOVE TO DO.

As Jonathan Turley puts it here with KO:

2.22 …change the law to conform to past conduct, it is what any criminal would love to do. That is you rob a bank, then you go to the legislature to change the law to say that robbing banks is lawful.

Of course impeachment is off the table, they will make legal Bush's illegalities. No impeachment possible there.

That is change that is hard to deny, but Obama will try.

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 56:

Mister Anderson @ 47:

Obama is running for President of the United States and not President of the Democratic Party.

This is a issue of the left, not a issue of the American people. And please don't give me that Constitution crap because more people have read the Koran in this country then have read the Constitution outside of some school assignment.

If I can't sue AT&T for listening to me having phone sex but it gives Obama the compromise to push through more important legislation on the economy, health care, education, energy/environment and the war.....THEN SO BE IT!

He was going to piss off the Left at some point because he HAS to piss off the Left if he wants to effectively govern the entire nation and have credibility with the rest of the world. I wouldn't vote for telecoms immunity, and he isn't either, but if it passes then it passes.....so be it.

So in short Mr. Anderson,
You're saying the Constitution is just a piece of paper?
That defending it is a waste of time?
That the Bill of Rights mean nothing to you and aren't worth defending?
The Right to be secure from one's own Government is over rated...?

But I thought your president said THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS...
Is this why you defend THEIR(sic) ability to usurp our Freedoms, Rights and Liberties?
After all, the best way to support THEM(sic) is to defend THEIR(sic) attack upon or Republic... NO?

.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter what academic argument I make on some message board to promote my academic and ethical superiority to other people on this board or to those on the right.

I'm saying that if you ask the average person what are their priorities in life, telecom immunity won't show up anywhere on their radar.

I'm saying that just as God and Guns are distractions for the extreme right, issues like Valerie Plame and telecom immunity are distractions for the extreme left.

I'm saying that when it comes to getting things done in Washington for what it is, and not for what the Left wants it to be, you have to compromise on issues like telecom immunity if you want to reduce the obstacles to getting through universal health care.

I'm saying that the extreme left isn't any better than the extreme right when you start labeling people as "Bushies" or "Elitists" just because they disagree with your position. The irony is that I'm AGAINST telecom immunity, but I'm for Obama not going out of his way to block it for better political positioning if it does piss off MoveOn, C&L and HuffPo. Their argument that you guys and gals are his special interest group that he can't stand up to lose a lot of water.

I'm saying that you have all of the reasons in the world to be disappointed if telecom immunity passes, but to throw your candidate under the bus because of it is INSANE! You're acting like he's voting for a war against Iran or something.

Lord forbid the leader of the party actually lead on something like our freedom.

I doubt he will show up.

After 40 lashes with a wet noodle, Obama will vote in favor of this bill. He has to. It only takes a couple of Google searches to figure out why.

In 2002, the House Intelligence committee members included Pelosi and Harman. In the Senate, we had Rockefeller and Feinstein. When Bush speaks, it hurts my ears BUT he has already said more than once, that the he advised the committees on the hill of what he was up to.

Right now, the civil cases against the telecoms are pending. The Dems mentioned above cannot allow discovery to proceed because there were either complicit or *involved* in BushCo's warrantless intelligence gathering. From the lengths these four have been willing to go to in order to make sure those cases are never heard, my magic 8 ball points to "involved". I am sure this was all carefully explained by Feinstein right after the primaries ended, as you will remember she had Obama and HRC over to her house for a little chat. See guys, I am dirty. And if it gets out, some of it's going to splash on you. Now Obama is flipped and HRC is "on vacation".

Oh, and just in case the rabble get in an uproar, they decided to throw us all a bone and sunset some of the more egregious sections of the bill in 2012, after Obama is comfortably starting his second term. But once those cases are dismissed, they are dismissed forever.

This is why to the puzzlement of everyone else, Pelosi and Harman are calling it a "compromise" and a "win-win": Bush gets cover- and so do they.

So much for change. The change I can believe in will be the one I make after the vote: my party affiliation, to Green. They may not win any major races this time, or even next but with enough time and support, we may eventually have a second party in this country. And I can look my kids in the eye and say at least I tried.

Mister Anderson @ 87:

I'm saying that just as God and Guns are distractions for the extreme right, issues like Valerie Plame and telecom immunity are distractions for the extreme left.

The "extreme left" being 57% of the country. You're (hopefully temporarily) out of your mind.

Mister Anderson @ 90:

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 69:

Mister Anderson @ 62:

Otay @ 50:

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

This is the #1 REASON why even though a majority of this nation is privately liberal, they don't vote Democratic because you try to speak to the people through powerpoint presentations, conspiracy theories, and go batshit crazy and eat your own on most issues the average person just does not care about. If the left gets off of its intellectually superior high horse and learn that in politics, you have to give to get, then maybe more things will get done for the good of all people.

If you don't like Obama's decision then by all means voice your displeasure. But to start calling him a wolf in sheep's clothing and saying you won't support him when the other option is McCain is just ridiculous! Russ Feingold is not getting elected President of this country. Rachel Maddow is not going to be the host of Meet The Press.

You guys have to start living in reality for what it is and change it from the inside out, instead of trying to live in reality for what you want it to be and try to change it from the outside in.

Dear Mr. Anderson,
They did a study, people jump off bridges...

PLEASE DO SO.

.

Does that make you feel better?

. . and obama continuous to support a treasonous position (you can have him . .. he's all your).

Mister Anderson @ 62:

Otay @ 50:

Mister Anderson @ 47:

Obama is running for President of the United States and not President of the Democratic Party.

This is a issue of the left, not a issue of the American people.

Bullshit. It is an issue supported across the spectrum among the American citizenry, from civil libertarians, to strict constitutionalists, to those who value the rule-of-law; from Dems to Repubs, from liberals to conservatives.

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

So what your saying just because most Americans are ignorant buffoons that care more about who wins American Idol than whether or not their personal freedoms that are GUARANTEED by the Constitution are eroded, that we should just stand by and say, "oh well, the general public doesn't care, so why should I?"

What next? Should we just get rid of the part that forbids the government from forcing us to allow soldiers to camp out in our front rooms? Where does it end?

I just don't understand your logic or lack there of.

Here's Hillary Clinton's statement on FISA:
Today, I will vote against Republican efforts to shortchange the debate on the FISA Amendments Act, important legislation that would modernize our surveillance laws and give our nation’s intelligence professionals the tools they need to fight terrorism and make our country more secure. Rather than allow the Senate the opportunity to consider important amendments to this vital legislation, Republicans are instead blocking meaningful debate on this bill by playing procedural games, choosing instead to score cheap political points at the expense of our Homeland Security.

This legislation deserves a thorough debate. Several provisions - including those which would have a profound impact on the civil liberties of Americans - need to be the subject of careful deliberation. For example, the bill under consideration gives telecommunication companies blanket retroactive immunity for their alleged cooperation in the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program. I continue to believe that a grant of retroactive immunity is wrong, and I have cosponsored Senator Dodd’s amendment to remove that provision from the bill. The Bush Administration has blatantly disregarded Americans’ civil liberties over the past seven years, and I simply will not trust them to protect Americans’ privacy rights. With the temporary Protect America Act set to expire on February 1st, I strongly believe that we need to pass balanced legislation that protects our civil liberties and the rule of law while giving our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect our country.

Otay @ 81:

Mister Anderson @ 62:

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

You don't even know what the hell you are arguing against me about. I am talking about telecom immunity, which 57% of voters oppose, and only 1/3 agree with:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ACLU_poll_Majority_opposes_telecom_immunit...

This is the #1 REASON why even though a majority of this nation is privately liberal, they don't vote Democratic because you try to speak to the people through powerpoint presentations, conspiracy theories, and go batshit crazy and eat your own on most issues the average person just does not care about. If the left gets off of its intellectually superior high horse and learn that in politics, you have to give to get, then maybe more things will get done for the good of all people.

What is it about "unconstitutional" is not a left-versus-right issue that you don't understand? It has nothing to do with your silly "conspiracy theory" theory.

If it's not a left-versus-right issue then why did one of the liberal blogs classify those 100+ Representatives who voted for it as some type of "sell outs"??? Why are many on this board classifying Obama as a "sell out" if he doesn't single handedly stop it?

If this wasn't a left-versus-right issues then that number would be a lot higher than 56%. And if this wasn't a left-versus-right issues, a lot more people other than liberal blogs would be up in arms about the House vote.

That's what the LEFT doesn't get which is why Democrats don't win many elections even though the majority of Americans agree with the Democratic platform. PRINCIPLES AND POLITICS ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS. When the Left starts arguing about the Constitution to the average person, it sounds like someone on the Right arguing about the Bible. Do I believe the Constitution supersedes the Bible? Of course I do. But you have to respect the fact that there are millions of people in this nation who do not. Instead of calling them names and trying to ban them from society, you need to work with them from their point of view and work a compromise that can benefit both sides.

If the right will feel much more stable and secure in their lives with the White House listening to them order more Child Porn from some UK distributor, then let them have it if it gives you more flexibility to get universal health care through Congress without strong opposition. Universal health care isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or Bible for that matter, but I'd rather have that then the right to sue phone companies for listening on my phone calls to Granny.

Just as the Right is crazy for thinking that there was a domino theory in regards to terrorism and communism, the left is crazy with their domino theory of the Constitution being suspended and a police state rising with telecom immunity. You're going to have a Democratic Executive, Legislative, and +1 on the Judicial branches if you don't go out of your way to blow this election. The dominoes won't fall for at least four years and you can stand up those that already have with a majority in all three.

Stop being so damn naive and short sighted about everything.

Mister Anderson @ 62:

Otay @ 50:

Mister Anderson @ 47:

Obama is running for President of the United States and not President of the Democratic Party.

This is a issue of the left, not a issue of the American people.

Bullshit. It is an issue supported across the spectrum among the American citizenry, from civil libertarians, to strict constitutionalists, to those who value the rule-of-law; from Dems to Repubs, from liberals to conservatives.

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

This is the #1 REASON why even though a majority of this nation is privately liberal, they don't vote Democratic because you try to speak to the people through powerpoint presentations, conspiracy theories, and go batshit crazy and eat your own on most issues the average person just does not care about. If the left gets off of its intellectually superior high horse and learn that in politics, you have to give to get, then maybe more things will get done for the good of all people.

If you don't like Obama's decision then by all means voice your displeasure. But to start calling him a wolf in sheep's clothing and saying you won't support him when the other option is McCain is just ridiculous! Russ Feingold is not getting elected President of this country. Rachel Maddow is not going to be the host of Meet The Press.

You guys have to start living in reality for what it is and change it from the inside out, instead of trying to live in reality for what you want it to be and try to change it from the outside in.

The framework of the constitution was constructed so that the change could be made from the inside, damage that framework and you have no choice but to make changes from the outside!

don't you get it? We are not talking about issue outside of the constitution, but the fabric of the constitution itself if they allow to grant immunity to those that choose to ignore the constitution unlawfully.

If your driving down the road and refuse to obey traffic, then you would be potentially harming yourself and others and foul up traffic.

If a politician is wielding his power and refuse to obey the constitution, then he would be harming the people and foul up the country. (much as we see now)

i know you people realize that obama is competing against a party/administration who doesn't follow the rules/ethics........bush didn't need to change wiretapping he just wanted to throw his weight around...and there are other reasons...obama can't fix everything and especially now he is fighting a formidable opponent...he has to pick his fights......he votes against the compromise than he is a terrorist to joe blow in ie. w. virginia no offense they want to divide us don't fall for it

Scott in Chicago @ 97:

Mister Anderson @ 62:

Otay @ 50:

Mister Anderson @ 47:

Bullshit. It is an issue supported across the spectrum among the American citizenry, from civil libertarians, to strict constitutionalists, to those who value the rule-of-law; from Dems to Repubs, from liberals to conservatives.

I raise you one Bullshit and will give you another. They already took a poll on this issue and a majority of Americans said they don't care if the government wiretaps the phones in the interest of national security. We both know they will use it to do more than track terrorists, but for the most part, people don't care who listens to their calls if they don't have anything to hide. No one is going to protest this decision. There won't be a second Civil War. Hell, the American people don't even know how many troops have died in the Iraq War so far.

So what your saying just because most Americans are ignorant buffoons that care more about who wins American Idol than whether or not their personal freedoms that are GUARANTEED by the Constitution are eroded, that we should just stand by and say, "oh well, the general public doesn't care, so why should I?"

What next? Should we just get rid of the part that forbids the government from forcing us to allow soldiers to camp out in our front rooms? Where does it end?

I just don't understand your logic or lack there of.

No, I'm saying that because most Americans are very simple buffoons that you shouldn't call them ignorant buffoons if your goal is to empower and educate them of their rights.

The American People agree with the left and the Democratic Party on the politics and principles. Me personally, I have a problem with the PEOPLE who make up the Democratic Party and identify themselves with the Left. You guys think that if you talk down to enough people and force feed them the facts (even when you're right) that everyone will fall in line and follow you. And when we don't, we're either sheep or buffoons. And anyone within your party who doesn't toe the line is given a Scarlet letter and then sent to the wolves.

You haven't won many elections with that strategy and you probably won't get many things done in Washington if Obama takes on your strategy.

I don't care who wins or loses the pissing contest between the left and right. I'm not on either one of your sides, I'm on my side. And my side says that between Obama and McCain, Obama is the guy most likely to get things done for my side so you guys and gals need to calm down and stop going crazy and start pointing your guns at him just because he any time he doesn't toe the line.

Otay @ 106:

Mister Anderson @ 101:

Otay @ 81:

Mister Anderson @ 62:

You don't even know what the hell you are arguing against me about. I am talking about telecom immunity, which 57% of voters oppose, and only 1/3 agree with:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ACLU_poll_Majority_opposes_telecom_immunit...

What is it about "unconstitutional" is not a left-versus-right issue that you don't understand? It has nothing to do with your silly "conspiracy theory" theory.

If it's not a left-versus-right issue then why did one of the liberal blogs classify those 100+ Representatives who voted for it as some type of "sell outs"??? Why are many on this board classifying Obama as a "sell out" if he doesn't single handedly stop it?

If this wasn't a left-versus-right issues then that number would be a lot higher than 56%. And if this wasn't a left-versus-right issues, a lot more people other than liberal blogs would be up in arms about the House vote.

That's what the LEFT doesn't get which is why Democrats don't win many elections even though the majority of Americans agree with the Democratic platform. PRINCIPLES AND POLITICS ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS. When the Left starts arguing about the Constitution to the average person, it sounds like someone on the Right arguing about the Bible. Do I believe the Constitution supersedes the Bible? Of course I do. But you have to respect the fact that there are millions of people in this nation who do not. Instead of calling them names and trying to ban them from society, you need to work with them from their point of view and work a compromise that can benefit both sides.

If the right will feel much more stable and secure in their lives with the White House listening to them order more Child Porn from some UK distributor, then let them have it if it gives you more flexibility to get universal health care through Congress without strong opposition. Universal health care isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or Bible for that matter, but I'd rather have that then the right to sue phone companies for listening on my phone calls to Granny.

Just as the Right is crazy for thinking that there was a domino theory in regards to terrorism and communism, the left is crazy with their domino theory of the Constitution being suspended and a police state rising with telecom immunity. You're going to have a Democratic Executive, Legislative, and +1 on the Judicial branches if you don't go out of your way to blow this election. The dominoes won't fall for at least four years and you can stand up those that already have with a majority in all three.

Stop being so damn naive and short sighted about everything.

Read the link. Only 1/3 support telecom immunity. That's a mandate against. Take away your hysterical arm waving, and all that is left is the numbers. Furthermore, only 26% support blanket warrants. Another mandate.

Naive is thinking this is a "far-left" issue, or even a "left" issue. And especially a "conspiracy theory" issue.

If the American people have placed a mandate on this issue then how in the hell did it get out of the House and why is the left on fire knowing that it will probably pass the Senate?

And please tell me the date and time that the second American Revolution will happen if this bill passes since the elected leaders are not following the people's mandate....

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 108:

.

LOL EVERYBODY,

Mr. Anderson thinks the Telecom deal is a left Vs. right issue...
... When in reality it is about stopping a Fascist takeover of America.

This people, is about AMERICAN Rights, Liberties and FREEDOMS!
NOT those perceived as owned by either the left OR right, like it's a tug of war.

Either Americans deserve the Right, Freedom and Liberty to be secure from a Government that seek to spy on it's people.
So, maybe Mr.Anderson can explain how the Founders got it wrong...
... When he breaks from scapegoating the "Liberals" and the "left" for the TREASON by his Government.

After all, Mr. Anderson did suggest that Fourth Amendment Rights aren't worth fighting for...
"... but if it(immunity) passes, then it passes... so be it."
Nothing says being Patriotic like a good set of shrugged shoulders to TREASON.

.

Trust me. I'm the one laughing.

You're in the Democratic Party correct? But you're ready, willing, and able to turn on your candidate if he doesn't toe the line on every issues you care about correct?

You're willing to do that even after 8 years of Bush and only 12 years of a Democrat in the White House out of the last 40, correct?

As one of the few people who is left of center who frequents this board, I'm trying to tell in you real-time on a real issue why the American people don't follow you even though they agree with you.

Laugh now. Cry later.

Mister Anderson @ 109:

Otay @ 106:

Mister Anderson @ 101:

Otay @ 81:

If it's not a left-versus-right issue then why did one of the liberal blogs classify those 100+ Representatives who voted for it as some type of "sell outs"??? Why are many on this board classifying Obama as a "sell out" if he doesn't single handedly stop it?

If this wasn't a left-versus-right issues then that number would be a lot higher than 56%. And if this wasn't a left-versus-right issues, a lot more people other than liberal blogs would be up in arms about the House vote.

That's what the LEFT doesn't get which is why Democrats don't win many elections even though the majority of Americans agree with the Democratic platform. PRINCIPLES AND POLITICS ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS. When the Left starts arguing about the Constitution to the average person, it sounds like someone on the Right arguing about the Bible. Do I believe the Constitution supersedes the Bible? Of course I do. But you have to respect the fact that there are millions of people in this nation who do not. Instead of calling them names and trying to ban them from society, you need to work with them from their point of view and work a compromise that can benefit both sides.

If the right will feel much more stable and secure in their lives with the White House listening to them order more Child Porn from some UK distributor, then let them have it if it gives you more flexibility to get universal health care through Congress without strong opposition. Universal health care isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or Bible for that matter, but I'd rather have that then the right to sue phone companies for listening on my phone calls to Granny.

Just as the Right is crazy for thinking that there was a domino theory in regards to terrorism and communism, the left is crazy with their domino theory of the Constitution being suspended and a police state rising with telecom immunity. You're going to have a Democratic Executive, Legislative, and +1 on the Judicial branches if you don't go out of your way to blow this election. The dominoes won't fall for at least four years and you can stand up those that already have with a majority in all three.

Stop being so damn naive and short sighted about everything.

Read the link. Only 1/3 support telecom immunity. That's a mandate against. Take away your hysterical arm waving, and all that is left is the numbers. Furthermore, only 26% support blanket warrants. Another mandate.

Naive is thinking this is a "far-left" issue, or even a "left" issue. And especially a "conspiracy theory" issue.

If the American people have placed a mandate on this issue then how in the hell did it get out of the House and why is the left on fire knowing that it will probably pass the Senate?

$$$$$$$$$$$

.

Sen. Arlen Specter (Pa.), the most prominent Republican opponent of the compromise bill, issued a statement today calling that exclusivity provision "meaningless because that specific provision is now in [the] 1978 act." Specter said Bush just ignored existing law in starting the warrantless surveillance program.

Surely you people jest???!!!!!
Obama, love child of the globalists, Manchurian of Bilderburg not fully endorse the police state control grid?
Ya'll got sucker punched with Pelosi in 2006 and ya'll gonna get sucker punched again in Nov. That's only if they don't bomb Iran.

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 113:

Mister Anderson @ 109:

Otay @ 106:

Mister Anderson @ 101:

Read the link. Only 1/3 support telecom immunity. That's a mandate against. Take away your hysterical arm waving, and all that is left is the numbers. Furthermore, only 26% support blanket warrants. Another mandate.

Naive is thinking this is a "far-left" issue, or even a "left" issue. And especially a "conspiracy theory" issue.

If the American people have placed a mandate on this issue then how in the hell did it get out of the House and why is the left on fire knowing that it will probably pass the Senate?

$$$$$$$$$$$

.

What happened to bringing a gun to a knife fight? Why don't you put your money up or do you follow your principles and ethics, again, at your own expense?

You guys and gals are not changing Washington from the outside. Not yesterday, not today, and definitely not tomorrow. Obama gets that. Dean gets that. Biden gets that. Hillary gets it too much. And a few others. I don't know what's wrong with the rest of you.

Mister Anderson @ 111:

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 108:

.

LOL EVERYBODY,

Mr. Anderson thinks the Telecom deal is a left Vs. right issue...
... When in reality it is about stopping a Fascist takeover of America.

This people, is about AMERICAN Rights, Liberties and FREEDOMS!
NOT those perceived as owned by either the left OR right, like it's a tug of war.

Either Americans deserve the Right, Freedom and Liberty to be secure from a Government that seek to spy on it's people.
So, maybe Mr.Anderson can explain how the Founders got it wrong...
... When he breaks from scapegoating the "Liberals" and the "left" for the TREASON by his Government.

After all, Mr. Anderson did suggest that Fourth Amendment Rights aren't worth fighting for...
"... but if it(immunity) passes, then it passes... so be it."
Nothing says being Patriotic like a good set of shrugged shoulders to TREASON.

.

Trust me. I'm the one laughing.

You're in the Democratic Party correct? But you're ready, willing, and able to turn on your candidate if he doesn't toe the line on every issues you care about correct?

You're willing to do that even after 8 years of Bush and only 12 years of a Democrat in the White House out of the last 40, correct?

As one of the few people who is left of center who frequents this board, I'm trying to tell in you real-time on a real issue why the American people don't follow you even though they agree with you.

Laugh now. Cry later.

You're making incorrect assumptions about me... Typical!
Please peruse the board more. In it you will read that my candidate has already been excluded, I have nothing to lose BUT my Rights, Freedoms, and Liberties.

You're one of the few "on the left"... ?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha... NOT!

You're trolling and I bit.

.

Otay @ 118:

Mister Anderson @ 109:

If the American people have placed a mandate on this issue then how in the hell did it get out of the House and why is the left on fire knowing that it will probably pass the Senate?

And please tell me the date and time that the second American Revolution will happen if this bill passes since the elected leaders are not following the people's mandate....

That is only a mandate of opinion among the electorate concerning the granting of immunity. The Dem congress is counting on people not being educated that this is happening. IOW, most people don't even know this is going on. Tell them (something Obama refused to do publicly), and the majority of those who found out would be against.

Instead, Obama is just being silent and hoping the issue goes away. I'm sure the Dem party could use the 10's of millions of dollars (in the first few months of the year alone) from the telco lobbying.

In short, Obama could have done something about this with his bully pulpit. And he didn't. Take that as you will, but I don't take it favorably.

I'm not asking you to take it favorably. I'm asking you to focus on winning the election and allow the Democrats a opportunity to change things across the board with the White House and a majority in Congress before you start turning your guns on yourselves. Feel free to go crazy and drill holes in the bottom of the boat to drain the water in June of 2009, but now is not the time. So you, MoveOn, C&L, and HuffPo need to back off unless you're doing all of this for show to give Obama more credibility with the center and left.

Can't understand Obama

unless you understand the JFK assassination, and

the Nixon eviction.

Everyone is stupid. You believe Obama arose out of nothing?

He is part of a continuation.

I'm also concerned on what else he will compromise if he wins the White House. Will he compromise on the Iraq war and keep doing what MCcain promises? Will he sell us out on healthcare? How about education? Will he keep the failed "no child left behind" policies?

This guy is failing us before he even get to the DNC convention, what make you think that he will keep ANY of his promisses?

And you, apologists, what's wrong with you?

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 121:

Mister Anderson @ 111:

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 108:

.

LOL EVERYBODY,

Mr. Anderson thinks the Telecom deal is a left Vs. right issue...
... When in reality it is about stopping a Fascist takeover of America.

This people, is about AMERICAN Rights, Liberties and FREEDOMS!
NOT those perceived as owned by either the left OR right, like it's a tug of war.

Either Americans deserve the Right, Freedom and Liberty to be secure from a Government that seek to spy on it's people.
So, maybe Mr.Anderson can explain how the Founders got it wrong...
... When he breaks from scapegoating the "Liberals" and the "left" for the TREASON by his Government.

After all, Mr. Anderson did suggest that Fourth Amendment Rights aren't worth fighting for...
"... but if it(immunity) passes, then it passes... so be it."
Nothing says being Patriotic like a good set of shrugged shoulders to TREASON.

.

Trust me. I'm the one laughing.

You're in the Democratic Party correct? But you're ready, willing, and able to turn on your candidate if he doesn't toe the line on every issues you care about correct?

You're willing to do that even after 8 years of Bush and only 12 years of a Democrat in the White House out of the last 40, correct?

As one of the few people who is left of center who frequents this board, I'm trying to tell in you real-time on a real issue why the American people don't follow you even though they agree with you.

Laugh now. Cry later.

You're making incorrect assumptions about me... Typical!
Please peruse the board more. In it you will read that my candidate has already been excluded, I have nothing to lose BUT my Rights, Freedoms, and Liberties.

You're one of the few "on the left"... ?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha... NOT!

You're trolling and I bit.

.

Screw your candidate! This is still your nation the last time I checked and your nation has issues! If you don't give a damn about the issues because "your candidate" lost then why do you care about FISA and telecom immunity???

I don't view Obama as "my candidate" because I was living in this country before I even heard of him, and I'll be living in this country long after he is out of the White House and is making millions in speaking fees and books. The only thing I care about is that he gets things done that I care about when I'm in there.

I thought you would too but I guess not since you're still engaged in the Primary contest pissing match.

ZadieSmith @ 128:

an Obama filibuster of the Telecom Bill would be ideological grandstanding and a waste of precious political capital. let's pick our battles carefully my fellow progressives. we've GOT to win this war.

Democrats outnumber Republicans and you are timidly advising caution - which is precisely what O'Bama is doing.

Republicans are setting the O'Bama agenda at the moment, and I sadly dont see signs that it will change.

Biden is more forceful than O'Bama - and that is a sad commentary.

"m also concerned on what else he will compromise if he wins the White House. Will he compromise on the Iraq war and keep doing what MCcain promises? Will he sell us out on healthcare? How about education? Will he keep the failed “no child left behind” policies?"

Hell yes..he's a politician...He's top dog now but his tail between his legs like a submissive pooch.....

Change my ass...DC is a Boys and Girls club of elite plutocrats with an agenda.....If he had ball's he'd have bashed this bill immediately...

We have no "hero's"...just corporatist wankers in DC...and Obama will do what ever he can to become one of them...I like him but his true color's have shown after AIPAC and FISA...guy's a bullsheeter...just like every empty suit in DC.

Everyone must take a big chill pill, and stop making demands on Barack Obama immediately.

He is going to be the Democratic nominee, and that's it. Trying to put him in an impossible position or undermine his character because he won't go all the way to support a particular cause is at best passive-aggressive, and at worst a republican ploy to manipulate the process.

The entire republican strategy from Hillary Clinton onwards has been to pit democrat against democrat. White females against Black males. Old people against young people. Now, it almost seems they are trying to set the leftwing base against the rest of the party.

Think of it this way. John McCain is not going to be an attractive candidate just because Barack Obama isn't going to filibuster the FISA bill. If he doesn't, he is going to be the bad guy for the left, if he does, he is going to look like he is weak and gives in to special interests.

So keep him out of it. Protect him from this type of manipulation until after November 2008, or either we are going to see President McCain and $250 oil and an attack on Iran, or at best, Obama is not going to win with as large a majority and he will govern with less ease.

You are not tough or hard or anything because you make demands on Barack Obama while he is running for president.

i called. indicated disappointment, blah blah blah. interesting response, the woman who took my call kept repeating that I should wait for next week and I might find myself surprised.
im not laying money either way but thats a perverse and stupid message to give to cranky callers if it has no connection to reality.

Called O'Bama number but couldn't get thru to either an operator or voicemail.

Senator O'Bama, you can stop FISA bill with a procedural filibuster. Which 11 Dem Senators would join the Repubs to vote cloture.

If you can't bend a Democratic Senate to your will on an issue supported by a president with barely more than single digit approval rating, why are you running for president?

Filibuster FISA until retroactive immunity is removed.

The Senate already passed corporate amnesty and the House voted no.

Now the House voted yes on corporate amnesty and the Senate will too.

We have two leaders on this issue, Kucinich and Feingold.

The dem leadership briefed on this unlawful activity should resign but they chose to cover their ass and cave.

Just like the gop, they do want to be held accountable. One thing about Congress, they do cover each other's asses.

They should change their oath of office to swear to cave to corporate interests.

Loosely Twisted @ 132:

I am writing in Kucinich. I can't in good conscious do any thing else, short of marching on Washington alone.

O'Bama has had time to persuade me that he is my choice and to this point has failed. I will continue to give him the chance to win me to his side. At the moment, it looks like not much more than a beauty contest with lots of Wonkishly timid explanations.

Kucinich speaks the truth and his mind while taking risks doing the right thing.

I voted Kucinich in the Az presidential preference election. An election is meant to determine the wishes of the people - and that for me is Kucinich. I will not triangulate my vote. O'Bama either mans up and does the right thing or he isnt worthy of my support.

I like Moveon, but aren't they asking for quite a bit -to get in front of the FISA bus? The issue of accountability of this administration is central, and I very much expect that Obama would vote to sustain a filibuster if he wants to keep my vote, but I wouldn't want to see him doing the fillibustering.

anon @ 131:

ZadieSmith @ 128:

an Obama filibuster of the Telecom Bill would be ideological grandstanding and a waste of precious political capital. let's pick our battles carefully my fellow progressives. we've GOT to win this war.

Democrats outnumber Republicans and you are timidly advising caution - which is precisely what O'Bama is doing.

Republicans are setting the O'Bama agenda at the moment, and I sadly dont see signs that it will change.

Biden is more forceful than O'Bama - and that is a sad commentary.

Zadie: This IS THE WAR! This is the war on the privacy of each and every one of us. This is the time where you either put the pedal to the metal or you give up all of your civil rights. This IS the reason why the FISA court and the need for warrants to wiretap americans exists. If the american people cave in to these neofascists about what is our principle right of freedom, then the war is over and the people have lost.

You call this "ideological grandstanding"?? What planet do you live on? There is nothing ideological about it - this happens to violate the civil rights of each and every american in this country. I can't think of anything MORE EXPANSIVE AND TOTALLY INVOLVED with every segment of our population than this, can you?

What's next?? Cameras in all of our homes? Or would you prefer that we each wear ankle bracelets and get numbers tatooed on our buttocks??

"Grandstanding" is another adjective you used to describe what would constitute someone showing some spine for a change and challenging these criminals who have run roughshod over every american in this country. How dare you call that grandstanding? I call this everyone's "civic and patriotic duty" - to stop Bush and his cadre of telecom criminals and cronies from getting away with the massive violation of everyone's civil rights. This can hardly be characterized as grandstanding.

steve davis @ 138:

Somebody want to tell me how the hell Obama was supposed to stop this from going through the House? And how exactly is a junior senator of the majority party supposed to filibuster a bill that is being brought to the floor by the majority leader? Filibustering is a minority parliamentary procedure. It isn't engaged by members of the majority, because if the majority doesn't want legislation to come to the floor, it doesn't come to the floor. Anybody think even if Obama could filibuster, which he can't, that he can find 29 senators to join him? Every Republican will vote for this. Joe Lieberman will vote for this. The majority of Democrats will vote for this. You know what? Instead of bitching about Obama is a turncoat, over an issue he has absolutely no control over, why don't you instead watch which Democrats make statements denouncing the whole bill as a constitutional end-run, and then proceed to vote for it? There will definitely be some. At least Obama is honest enough to say he's probably going to end up having to vote for this lipsticked-pig upfront.

You are wrong, filibustering procedure can be engaged by the majority leader. You are either lying or an ignorant. Either way you are wrong.