Scalia, McCain and Yoo Push Discredited "Gitmo 30" Talking Point
Earlier, I detailed how John McCain, John Yoo and Justice Antonin Scalia in the wake of the Court's Boumediene decision all continued to peddle the discredited Republican talking point about "30 former Guantanamo detainees" who had "returned to the fight." Now a devastating new report released Tuesday from Seton Hall professor Mark Denbeaux puts to rest the Scalia's "urban legend."
That figure of 30 terror recidivists unleashing a bloodbath had been debunked by earlier studies from Denbeaux's team and recent investigations from the McClatchy papers. But Denbeaux's updated analysis, including the revelations that the Defense Department itself backtracked from the infamous Gitmo 30 in July 2007 and May 2008, shows the extent to which Justice Scalia engaged in cherry-picking dubious data to bolster his blood-curdling Boumediene dissent last week. And it hasn't stopped the exaggerated number of Gitmo repeat terrorists (like the cry of "worse than Dred Scott") from becoming a standard Republican talking point since the Court's restoration of habeas corpus last week.
Birth of a Sound Bite
The sound bite dates back to the summer of 2007, when the Pentagon released its own study to counter an earlier analysis by Denbeaux which questioned the intelligence value of Al Qaeda and Taliban personnel held by the U.S. The New York Times said "it paints a chilling portrait of the detainees," and quoted Pentagon spokesman Jeffrey Gorden on one of its key findings:
"Our reports indicate that at least 30 former Guantanamo detainees have taken part in anti-coalition militant activities after leaving U.S. detention," he said. "Some have been killed in combat in Afghanistan and Pakistan."
That figure quickly became a staple among Republicans in the debate over Guantanamo Bay and the status of the detainees in the wake of the Court's Hamdan decision and the subsequent passage of the Military Commissions Act. With the Senate Judiciary Committee now in Democratic hands, GOP Senators Kyl, Sessions, Graham, Cornyn, and Coburn prominently featured the 30 released detainees in their minority report arguing against the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007:
"At least 30 detainees who have been released from the Guantanamo Bay detention facility have since returned to waging war against the United States and its allies. A dozen released detainees have been killed in battle by U.S. forces, while others have been recaptured."
It is worth noting, as the Committee's majority report did, that all detainees released from Guantanamo Bay were freed not by civilian courts, but by the military's own tribunals and commissions:
"Indeed, those Guantanamo detainees who have been released since 9/11--discussed at length by critics of this legislation--have been freed by the military following its own process, not by federal judges on habeas review."
Conservatives Wave the Bloody Shirt
In his Boumediene dissent, Justice Scalia regurgitated the now-familiar talking point, citing the news accounts contained in the minority report of Kyl et al:
"In the short term, however, the decision is devastating. At least 30 of those prisoners hitherto released from Guantanamo Bay have returned to the battlefield. See S. Rep. No. 110-90, pt. 7, p. 13 (2007) (Minority Views of Sens. Kyl, Sessions, Graham, Cornyn, and Coburn) (hereinafter Minority Report)... ...These, mind you, were detainees whom the military had concluded were not enemy combatants. Their return to the kill illustrates the incredible difficulty of assessing who is and who is not an enemy combatant in a foreign theater of operations where the environment does not lend itself to rigorous evidence collection."
In his own tirade in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, John Yoo in turn approvingly cited Scalia's Boumediene dissent as proof of the coming bloodbath the Court's majority has enabled:
"Just as there is always the chance of a mistaken detention, there is also the probability that we will release the wrong man. As Justice Antonin Scalia's dissenting opinion notes, at least 30 detainees released from Guantanamo Bay -- with the military, not the courts, making the call -- have returned to Afghanistan and Iraq battlefields."
And in his own blistering attack on the Court's ruling on Friday, John McCain picked up the torch, virtually ensuring that the Gitmo 30 will be a bludgeon used against Barack Obama through November:
"30 of the people who have already been released from Guantanamo Bay have already tried to attack America again."
A Claim Debunked
Of course, there seems to be one minor problem with the tale told by Mssrs Kyl, McCain, Scalia and Yoo. Like much else that passes for Bush administration propaganda, it's a wild exaggeration at best.
During a December 11, 2007 appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Denbeaux presented an analysis of the same data to reach a starkly different conclusion. The Seton Hall professor and detainee lawyer contended:
Just as the Government's claims that the Guantanamo detainees "were picked up on the battlefield, fighting American forces, trying to kill American forces," do not comport with the Department of Defense's own data, neither do its claims that former detainees have "returned to the fight." The Department of Defense has publicly insisted that at least thirty (30) former Guantanamo detainees have "returned" to the battlefield, where they have been re-captured or killed. To date, however, the Department has described at most fifteen (15) possible recidivists, and has identified only seven (7) of these individuals by name. More strikingly, data provided by the Department of Defense reveals that:
- at least eight (8) of the fifteen (15) individuals identified alleged by the Government to have "returned to the fight" are accused of nothing more than speaking critically of the Government's detention policies;
- ten (10) of the individuals have neither been re-captured nor killed by anyone;
- and of the five (5) individuals who are alleged to have been re-captured or killed, two (2) of the individuals' names do not appear on the list of individuals who have at any time been detained at Guantanamo, and the remaining three (3) include one (1) individual who was killed in an apartment complex in Russia by local authorities and one (1) who is not listed among former Guantanamo detainees but who, after his death, has been alleged to have been detained under a different name.
No doubt, Denbeaux's role as a defense attorney for detainees held by the United States in Cuba means his analysis will (and should) draw extra scrutiny. But in its devastating three-part probe into the American detainee system, McClatchy largely confirmed Denbeaux's 2007 assessment:
A study published by a professor at the Seton Hall School of Law found that 45 percent of 516 Guantanamo detainees examined had committed hostile acts against the United States or its allies, and that only 8 percent of them had been al Qaida fighters. The study drew on unclassified Department of Defense transcripts and documents from military tribunals at Guantanamo...
...So who got it right?
It's not possible to say definitively. However, a McClatchy investigation came to conclusions similar to the Seton Hall study, and West Point's statistical breakdown, under close examination, helps explain how Guantanamo's cellblocks became filled with innocents and low-level Taliban grunts.
Now, Denbeaux's new report ("Justice Scalia, the Department of Defense, and the Perpetuation of an Urban Legend") puts the final nail in the coffin for the right-wing's Gitmo 30 fear-mongering. The press release accompanying the June 17 study noted, "The '30' number, however, was corrected in a DoD press release issued in July 2007, and a DoD document submitted to the House Foreign Relations Committee on May 20, 2008 abandons the claim entirely." That House hearing occurred two weeks before Scalia published his stinging Boumediene dissent. And Seton Hall's findings, all available in the public domain, are more damning still:
- At most 12, not 30, detainees "returned to the fight."
- Of these 12, it is by no means clear that all are properly characterized as having been so engaged since their release.
- According to the Department of Defense's published and unpublished data not a single detainee was ever released by a court. Moreover, every released detainee was released by political appointees of the Department of Defense, sometimes over the objection of the military.
- According to the Department of Defense's published and unpublished data and reports, not a single released Guantánamo detainee has ever attacked any Americans.
- The Department of Defense's statements regarding recidivism are inconsistent with each other and often contradictory.
- This may be because, despite the importance of detainee recidivism, the Department of Defense's sources of information are media reports. - Despite national security concerns, the Department of Defense does not have a system for tracking the conduct or even the whereabouts of released detainees.
There is no question that some number of those held at Guantanamo Bay are indeed the "worst of the worst," as the trial of Khalid Sheikh Muhammed and associates makes clear). (As McClatchy's massive probe this past week shows, many more were not.) And as the DoD, the 2007 Senate Judiciary Committee report, Denbeaux and some conservative bloggers rightly point out, a handful committed new terrorist atrocities in Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan and Russia after their release from U.S. custody in Cuba.
But John McCain and friends notwithstanding, the claim that "30 of the people who have already been released from Guantanamo Bay have already tried to attack America again" is simply not true. Of course, that doesn't mean we've heard the last of the Gitmo 30.
Foist!
They can all go suck eggs!
This gets back to the post from yesterday about how these fuckers just lie and get away with it.
Scalia is a chump, party before country is the theme from this jerk that is one of the worst ever on that court.
Discredited means nothing to a ideologically bankrupt party. They have nothing but lies and debunked ideas to run on. McCains entire platform is built on right-wing falsehoods taken as truth. What they do know is repeating them enough makes them credible. So we will see who has the will and the lungpower.
I really DESPISE politicians who are so fucking smug, arrogant, and contemptuous in their belief that they're above the law...
Kyl and McCain are "my" senators. Trent Franks is "my" rep. I have absolutely no voice in this country.
So they're saying we NEED the civilian courts since the military keeps letting dangerous criminals go? That would be the logical conclusion.
These guys are all doing their best to protect the Bush administration from legal indictments. From what I understand the International Court is waiting to see what the next administration does before they take action against Bush, Cheney, Yoo, and anyone else involved in policies that have violated both domestic and international law. Frankly, I hope they do. These guys know they've done wrong and are running scared. The sad fact is that many innocents have been detained for years without being charged and without legal counsel, all while being tortured. This is NOT the U.S. I thought I knew. Our country's credibility will never be restored until the Bush criminal cabal is held accountable. Bush's defenders are doing everything possible to prevent that from happening. That's why they insist on condemning the SCOTUS decision. It also tells us that McCain will do nothing to right the wrongs of the Bush administration. All their unlawful activities will be swept under the carpet.
Scalia is repulsive pig. This is more proof that Scalia is partisan hack with a clear reich-wing agenda.
From day one of hearing that tale, I have doubted it and wondered if it were true, how would they know.
None of these people consider backing up what they say, no one has ever required them to. No one holds anyone accountable for anything they say or do. They are like robbers able to run free and take whatever they want. When you have a Supreme Court Justice telling blatant lies, you know your country is in big big trouble.
Bush often speaks of the terrorists promoting an ideology. Isn't that exactly what his administration has done? They have promoted their ideology of fear in order to mute the general public. Basically they have said, if we don't do things our way, you're all going to die. Also if you don't support what we're doing, you are as bad as the terrorists. Seems to me there has been some form of brainwashing going on in this country these past seven years.
Scalia and Yoo are intellectually dishonest. (Can't say the same for McCain, because he's a cipher.)
Habeas does not mean a bad person is set loose.
It means a person charged with having done something bad gets to challenge the legitimacy of his or her being held, in front of an unbiased judge, with the full assistance of counsel.
Jesus.
HELLOOOOOO...it has seldom mattered to REPUGS whether there was any validity in their statements/arguments because they KNOW if they just get everyone in line and have them repeat and repeat and repeat something the media will pick it up send it forth and NEVER challenge it (Russert as well) or debunk it or present another side of it until such time as it becomes the CW and is accepted by ALL...but those of us with functioning brains/curiosity/interest in FACTS continue to believe that if we just find the "truth" and put it out there it will wipe away all their crap..."not gonna happen"....have folks learned NOTHING since 2000?????????
Funny they should mention Dredd Scott. I amazed that Scalia hasn't demanded that Dredd Scott be reinstated. He really is a piece of shit.
We have nothing to fear but beer itself!
No surprise. We've always known that scalia is a profoundly and willfully dishonest man.
I remember, in the run up to the Iraq war, an incredulous comment on Plastic that "So now we're just going to make shit up?"
Making shit up is what Republicans do when the facts have a liberal bias.
bilhelm-axis of-X @ 13:
Not to worry. McCain has already promised to veto every beer.
Weren't those supposed 30 released before the SCOTUS decision in question?
Let's say some number of people released from Gitmo are discovered being terrorists AFTER release - that doesn't prove anything about what they did BEFORE they were at Gitmo. Imagine you are an innocent man snatched from the street and shipped to a prison across the globe, falsely accused, held without charges for several years, and subjected to "harsh interrogation". Might you not want some revenge against that country that imprisoned you, even if you had never been a terrorist before?
George W. Bush unleashed a bloodbath. What are we going to do about him?
Scalia appears to be drowning in his own pig feces.
D @ 18:
My thoughts precisely.
Liars Lie and then must continue to Lie in order to substantiate their Lies.
I can't wait to see all of these creeps in the docket at the Hague!!
Assuming Scalia et al are correct, then the falicy of Scalia et al's train of reasoning is that the “Gitmo 30” would not have been released had proper hearings been held for them under the concept of habeas corpus.
That the Gitmo 30 were released under the system Scalia et al support makes their system the problem. It is the Scalia system that would then require redress to correct what they say happened.
That Scalia et al are wrong, makes their system all the more wrong.
pissed off patricia @ 9:
Herding of the sheeple who fear the dogs, anyway.
Wow.
Wrong response: 30 Gitmo detainees are back on the battlefield. Obviously we can't ever let them go.
Better response: 30 Gitmo detainees are back on the battlefield. Obviously we must be doing something wrong in there to encourage them to fight against the US.
Best response: Um, that story's bullshit.
You'd think that if they believe the story, they'd at least consider that they're fighting us because of what WE did to them in Gitmo, right?
The Middle East isn't buying US Propaganda:
U.S. network falters in Mideast mission
Meanwhile, anybody 'recall' Gonzo?:
"Gonzales Ousted Torture Critic, Offered Him US Attorney Job
ABC News is reporting former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales ousted a top Justice Department attorney in 2005 for failing to adopt the administration’s position on torture and then promised him a position as a US attorney to placate him. Attorney Daniel Levin was asked to leave the Department after he wrote a legal opinion that declared “torture is abhorrent” and limited the administration’s use of harsh interrogation techniques."
what was scalia doing inserting the battlefield BS into his dissent anyway? Were those claims raised as part of the lower court rulings? Doubt it. So, the Justice just did a little extra work on the side to support his view of the world. Nice. Forget what's put before you, just spout your own beliefs and find support in the newspaper (full of misinformation straight from the Government's mount - no evidentiary standard there).
These people become more daring with every day, trashing the constitution and democracy with such assurance.
I've always been politically cynical, but I never thought I'd see the day when 'high-level' officials, civil servants of the people of the United States, engage in such overt soviet-style propaganda, and then have this propaganda broadcast all of the media, essentially unchallenged by soviet-style 'journalists.'
Ron @ 21:
Damn right! This shit is CREATING terrorists out of innocent people.
Mauro @ 25:
Wrong.
The whole point of the "War On Terror" is to stir up the hornet's nest, kill all the hornets, and then peace will happen cuz anyone willing to fight is dead.
At least that's the only sense I can make of it.
And it accords with the usual Anglo-American tactic of stirring up old resentments, setting traditional foes against each other and selling arms to all sides, then imposing a puppet regime once the strongest amongst them have killed each other.
The Three Stooges keep peddling their warped and worked up numbers to keep up the Scare Machine.
Let's face it folks, we're making Enemies Faster than we can Kill or Detain them with our Renditioning and Torture Camps.
We know what happened in Mc"Cane"s life to turn him hateful, but what kind of awful stuff happened to Scalia and Yoo to make them so twisted?
Love that picture of McChameleon. He looks so intelligent.
When are we going to learn how to get the word out without being too wordy? The Repubs talk first, talk in short sound bites, talk loudly, and talk continually. They've already set the tone, and now come the wonkish responses that nobody reads. Good job.
Left&Left @ 33:
Larry Moe and Curly
There is a chilling side to this even if it were true. For the sake of argument, suppose that these people, in fact, did return to the fight. From their perspective they are career soldiers in service to whatever is their cause and whatever is their culture, and this is so regardless whatever arbitrary and self-serving labels we apply to them in order to self-justify committing war crimes against them.
Turn about is fair play. If the roles were reversed, and it was our career military who were languishing away in concentration camps, without protection of international laws and standards, labeled as illegal combatants because some despot whom they were fighting decided that an arbitrary label could be applied in order to strip them of all protections granted under the rules of war and international law....if these soldiers were to find themselves released and returned, how many of them would return to the fight? All of them? They would not find themselves freed of their military obligations or the obligations imposed upon them by the culture in which they live.
What goes around, eventually comes around. I can see in some future conflict that our warriors will be held indefinitely, stripped of all rights, denied status as POW's and self-righteously turned into victims of war crimes just because a logical assumption might be made that if they were ever released, they too would become "recidivists".
The entire "recidivist" argument is bogus. It is just another invention that was crafted with the sole intent of justifying an ongoing campaign of war crimes and crimes against humanity. It doesn't matter if these guys are the most blood-thirsty monsters around. If we claim to be a civilized nation of laws, then the laws, including those the protect the rights of the accused and the convicted, must apply.
It should not be forgotten, that when bonafide foreign terrorists were subjected to our criminal justice system, enjoying all the rights granted the accused by our Constitution, they were convicted in a jury trial and are now serving life sentences. Our laws worked. Our judicial system worked. Our Constitution worked. What need or benefit, then, are these concentration camps, rape of the law and ongoing war crimes? The only thing the whole process does is establish precedents that legitimize the process and tactics for some time in the future when the same methods would deployed against American citizens.
I don't know if I'm proud or troubled that there is more intelligence and rational thinking on display here than at the highest levels of our government. I love coming here because while I can usually think of one of two reasons why talking points like the Gitmo 30 are stupid (e.g. maybe released detainees would fight us because we really pissed them off), you all help add more reasons to the list that hadn't occurred to me (such as the releases being under the system Scalia supports).
Funny side note: my grandmother apparently babysat Scalia and my father went to the same high school as Alito (different grades by a few years). I am really not proud to be from my area whenever the SCOTUS is in the news.
"Gitmo 30"??
Personally, I'd be a little more concerned about the up to 1100 Afghan prison escapees returning to the battlefield than the thirty at Gitmo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/2128445/Afgha...
So...even SCOTUS members can be lying sacks of shit.
Good to know.
fastfeat @ 38:
Shhhhhh, they don't want anyone tying these things together.
I cannot recall a SCOTUS decision, which was so totally whined about by one of the justices. Scalia is completely without honor, or anything to recommend him. He is a big fat flesh-face. Hopefully, he will keel over soon (right after Barack is in the 'big chair'). We do not want dub to appoint another judge.
"Just as there is always the chance of a mistaken detention, there is also the probability that we will release the wrong man" -Woo
What fundamentally barabaric reasoning. How many indefinitely imprisoned and tortured innocents are worth keeping 2 or 3 possibly guilty people imprisoned? Madness!!!
Isn't Scalia becoming exactly what the Righties decry as an "activist judge"? These lifetime judicial appointments are going to screw the living crap out of the country. The Rethugs only need 1 or 2 more appointments this next Presidential term to really alter America's direction. The Constitution has held up to more serious threats than some underfunded, unsanctioned militants half a world away, but will be destroyed thanks to spineless Democrats and chicken-hawk, "family-values" Rethuglicans.
I'm not judge, but I thought they are supposed to rule on the facts, the law and what HAS happened not on some speculation on what WILL happen as Scalia does in his dissent. These guys are losing their minds, becoming a Christian Taliban right before our eyes.
gwen @ 42:
Based on his logic, everyone brought in to police headquarters should be held there for life.
I think going after Scalia is a REALLY good option. He's the type of "I'm never wrong and that's that" retard who can be shaken by embarrassing him. He hates the idea that someone may "misinterpret" what he says, so you can be sure that being proven wrong and exposing the flaws in his underlying ideologically-driven analysis (which basically calls into question his entire life's work) will drive him batshit crazy.
I don't think he's a bad guy, I just think he's got this intense defense mechanism built up to prevent him from ever having to say he was wrong about anything. So he's just an asshole, but again, not necessarily a bad guy.
Isn’t Scalia becoming exactly what the Righties decry as an “activist judge”? These lifetime judicial appointments are going to screw the living crap out of the country.
Becoming? He's been an "activist" for a long time. They've screwed this country with countless dreadful decisions.
Darn Tooting @ 45:
He is a really bad guy and should be impeached off the court.
Darn Tooting @ 45:
A judge is supposed to have an open mind. He is a right wing biggoted tool.
This sounds like some kind of grounds for impeachment.
He's supposed to analyze government policy not advocate for it.
gwen @ 42:
All the more blameworthy if it is considered (so I was taught) the the Founders belived and so crafted the Constitution with the idea that it was better to let 100 guilty people walk free than to wrongfully convict or do injustice to one innocent person.
The Republican arguements regarding Gitmo have never made any sense to me. For one thing, the people currently held there more than likely do not have any current information regarding any operational intelligence even if they were part of some terrorist organization. The information they contain is so old and was more than likely changed just as soon as they were caught in the U.S. dragnet that it is pretty much useless.
Now the Republicans continue to claim that those who left Gitmo are returning to Afghanistan or some other place to fight. I'm still wondering how they came about this information. Did they microchip them? If they did then the detainees more than likely removed those chips and implanted them in a dog's ass or something. Besides, even if one or two returned to fight can you really blame them? I mean, I would probably be pissed off to if I were subjected to the treatment that they had received. Gitmo is nothing more than an incubator for people who may not have had the intention but now will soon one day seek revenge.
Fastfeat you are engaging in disinformation. Less tatn 400 of the escapees were considered prisoners related to the conflict. The others were common criminals including women and children. Yesterday I attempted to shut down a troll with a chuckle/recipee. You did not get it then and you dont get it now. Read your own links.
Darn Tooting @ 45:
Sorry, but I think Scalia is a bad guy. Evil is as evil does. That he deploys the totality of his intellect, knowledge, experience and committment - that he has deployed his considerable native gifts - to working his evil works only makes him more the bad guy. In the end, everything we do is a matter of choice. If he is as, you say, the prisoner of his own defensiveness and vanity(I know, I'm paraphrasing you), that, too was a choice, because he has consistently chosen throughout his life to lie and to lie to himself. Thus far, whenever life has offered him the opportunity to do otherwise, he has chosen to spurn that opportunity. Scalia stopped growing intellectually and morally probably from the time he started making reasoned choices. He has chosen to become that which he has become. And that which he has become is a blameworthy thing from my perspective.
"Terrorists" on the battlefield. Uh huh! Exactly WHAT battlefield are they referring to?
Vic @ 46:
Nah, he's a "strict constructionist".
All good republicans are bold faced lying sacks of shit!
scalia, now cutting and pasting directly from drudge into his opinions!
Dr. Acula @ 54:
An airport near you, or perhaps off the street in their hometown. Many of these people have been taken off the street or at their job. The battlefield rhetoric is just another lie from these madmen.
Dr. Acula @ 55:
If you agree with the republicans you are not an activist, That only happens when you dissagree with republicans!
Proof that there is no God:
Carlin dies of a heart attack and Scalia doesn't.
Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves at the disgrace of a Supreme Court Justice being more a right wing conservative politican than an unbiased jurist. Scalia is an abbhorent aberration whose position of power in court has corrupted him into being a political activist. It is blatantly irresponsible for Scalia to offer personal opinions on subjects he is supposed to judge on their legal merits not his personal political views.
Love that picture of john (Watch Me Swallow My Face) mccain.
charles @ 52:
I did read my link above. It said UP TO 1100 prison escapees. I did not state that all were Taliban fighters.
And even by using your number of "400...related to the conflict" (Link?), I'll stand by my comment stated at #38.
It's technically possible to impeach Scalia right?
Three un-American right wingers. Also these three guys are as fascist as three guys can get.
As of now Mussolini is giving them the thumbs up from the grave.
Dutch Delight @ 64:
As I understand it, yes.
Scy @ 60:
Nor Big Dick.
Dutch Delight @ 64:
Possible, but extremely unlikely:
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574302_2/supreme_court_of_the_uni...
Mickxotic @ 5:
YES, YOU DO HAVE A VOICE! Its your vote. Vote them out of office. I live in Pennsylvania, pseudo-home of rickyticky (man on dog) santorum. We voted him out of office and arlen (the useless bush lapdog) specter is next! It can be done if you work for it!
no matter, the zombies will faithfully parrot these talking points without end.
it is coming time to pay the piper and all they'll do is simply find somebody
else to blame for their own poor choice of supporting a criminal leadership.
the time for "doing something" about the Bush Crime Family is coming to an
end.. one can bet there will be charges opened at The Hague against many of
these war criminals since we're obviously incapable of doing it ourselves and
the rest of the world will hopefully take action the first time one of the heinous monsters is able to be extradited. I personally would love to see Dick Cheney's
smirk wiped off his face in a manner similar to the Adolf Eichmann trial - with the same end result, of course.
anyway the end is in sight as well for the USA, for those who can see around the corner: it'll be the North American Union to our kids and their children.. it's all been decided so try not to worry too much because there's really nothing you can do about it.
osage @ 61:
antonin scalia is a disgrace to all Italian-Americans! We are, for the most part, good citizens; scalia shames us all! Whenever I see his ugly, smug face, I want to puke!
Paul: I totally agree. Republican/conservative rhetoric surrounding Gitmo and other political prisons is pure subterfuge, and the precedent that the Bush administration and SCOTUS have been setting is an end run around constitutional protections. They make these bogus claims in large part to placate voters who are squeamish about extra-constitutional courts and prisons in the hopes that the majority of said voters will be too lazy to look very closely at the evidence behind those assertions, and they depend on that same laziness to protect the administration and the SCOTUS from public outcry.
Groucho @ 70:
If these greedy, criminal bastards cant be extradited, why cant we rendition them? Sending them to gitmo would be poetic justice. I'll bet that ugly smirk on the evil one's face would be wiped off by a little judicious waterboarding. (We all know thats NOT torture because our gubment said so! hehehehehehe)
Rosanne @ 71:
Rosanne--
Just a little tune-up, free of charge, with no disrespect meant...
Right now, in the U.S., there are about 10,000 people who could improve this world immensely by leaving it. These three men are near the top of the list.
Dutch Delight @ 64:
Any public official can be impeached.
Dr. Acula @ 67:
Mine's bigger.
Really, a picture of Dumb, Dumber, and Old Fart.
Charles @ 17:
Fucking EXCELLENT point. That needs to be said over and over again!
After being torture. They want those prisoners to behave ..hahahaha ...yeah right ..they will get revenge ...just like anyone else in that situation. and they will try to hit the US as hard as possible for their pain.
Well the US is about to reap all of what it planted ..and it will be really sad what will happen to this Country.
Fat Tony Scalia lied.
YAWN
It seems that from the dawn of man their has been a small number of people who's only goal is to rule and control the rest of the human beings that live on this rock. Their names and faces may change, along with the country and places in time, but they are the same power mad, greedy, bunch of criminals. While I don't believe in the standard magical being concept, it makes one wonder if the idea of a never ending battle between good and evil has some part in the circle of things. What is missing from these people to cause them to follow a path that brings pain and harm to all they touch? Is it a soul? Do they not have an inner voice that tells them what is right or wrong? The big puzzle to me is why do people not see them for what they are, and how do they always end up in a place of power from which they try to force their sickness upon us. Will this be the time that good may not be able to recover?-CEO
What's that on the horizon? Looks like a whole boatload of karmic blowback is about to get up-close and personal with these people.
.
Scalia is an urban legend...
Yoo has become an urban legend...
McUrban will too become a legend.
.
It's also been pointed out here at C&L that our legal system functions on an evidentiary basis - yet Scalia's dissent maintains that it would be too difficult a task for the military to justify the detention of those held at Guantanamo.
It was also 'too difficult' for Alberto Gonzales to file for warrants under FISA. Instead (thanks, Steny!) we have cleanup legislation for corporations who participated in the program of illegal and warrantless wiretaps.
What a shameful epitaph for America, the once-preeminent example of a free society (please don't start on any diatribes on the various and glaring inequities that plague us regardless). It's too difficult to observe the law and remain true to our principles. We're apparently facing an enemy so virulent, so dangerous that we can't afford such 'liberal' ideas - and must, instead, adopt the policies of failed states which we have fought against in the past.
And it's clear we cannot move beyond this dilemma until the American people shed their fear of the terrorist bogeyman, and recognize the gibbering fear and destructive anger masquerading as patriotism. We need smart security to stand in our nation's defense, not programs stumbling about for the magic intercept (our defenses need to work whether or not we intercept a critical call), or thinking a vacation at Guantanamo Bay is somehow protecting anything.
The "earlier studies" link appears to be broken. :(
Have SCJs ever been so unabashed about their work as political consultants? Is Scalia impeachable? Would you have to impeach his ego separately?
More fine work by our SCOTUS; Rules against environmentalists, for Homeland Insecurity on border fence:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080623/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_border_fence
all part of the NEOCON linguistics game to sell their side of the story. they actually do formulate/calculate the words that will be most effective for people who want to believe this.
I know that this is a serious article, and the discussions are serious. But, I can't help it. I've got to make the comment that the accompanying pics of McCain and Scalia makes it look like that they are:
1. Trying to hold back from passing gas, or
2. About to take a serious poop.
On the other hand....maybe they are having a hard time with the crap that they are trying to get people to believe.
republiscum = fucking liars.
so WTF else is new?
Sounds like "the little boy that cried wolf" too many times. No one would believe him anymore. Well, most of us don't believe anymore. After all the three apes sitting there have been handpicked by Bush/Cheney.
rain @ 92:
Ya mean they're fleas for the eatin'?
All these reichwing Supreme Clowns misrepresented themselves as impartial during their confirmation hearings. Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts must all be impeached before this country can pull out of the moral abyss they've helped put us into.
I wish Scalia would take a long walk of a short pier. I absolutely hate the idea that he is on the same page as the obviously partisan McCain, Yoo, and others. He should be above all that discredited BS. I expect it from partisan hacks, but not from a Supreme Court justice. If you can't be any more original than right wing hacks, then shut the ---k up Scalia, and do your GoDa job.
rain @ 92:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqXgmPBGZU
Musk @ 95:
Is that an abbreviation for G*d D**m or gouda?
Scalia does look like someone who cuts the cheese alot.
at best, the phony claim indicates that the system used prior to Boumediene was responsible for releasing terrorists
so any system that even tries to prevent such incompetence is an improvement
Scaliais a despicable piece of racist fascist neocon shit........
Scy @ 60:
Good point.
these people need no facts ( facts have a liberal bias along with reality) they live in a Bizarro world where the rethug/conservative party will rule for 1000 years oh wait that was nazi germany. There once was a graduate from the "special class" that said "get over it" I think you should you reichwing hack scalia as for Mccrazy what a dim bulb he graduated at the bottom of his class must be nice to have a admiral for a dad.
Scalia, McCain, and Yoo...if that's the best the neo-cons can do, their cause is lost.
Ann Coulter mentioned the same urban legend in her column on Friday.
I wonder why these guys never question sending Saudi terrorists that were captured in Iraq killing Americans, back to Saudi for vocational training.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1673270,00.html
Dutch Delight @ 64:
Suuuuuurrrrrree!! Right along with chimpy, evil dick, and nancy complicit!
Republican's are batshit crazy fascisits. Democrats are 70's style republican's, and the SCOTUS is packed with plutocratic loving sociopath's. Amerikuh, home of the free, and the stupid (45% support McCain)!
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