Ok, haven't watched PBS's Newhour in a long time - finally caught it tonight. Sorry, it's very detailed but it's a snoozefest. They need a bit of an overhaul for our attention deprived population. They have so much good information but it's just packaged soooooooooo wrong.
Visit www.politicalinsider.net for all the latest political news and opinion. The political insider includes a blog, videos,polls, online survey, election results, political cartoons, web show, money in politcs and much more
Obama targets his message to working women. Pelosi lets Big Oil continue to screw us, too, but at least she's fighting offshore drilling. Obama 0wns Dobson. A hiring fair gets a huge turn-out in Michigan, for some reason. Meanwhile, car-makers would rather bribe
consumers to buy their unsold SUVs than invest in better vehicles. The West would rather make it easier for Iran to lose the Drug War than be more diplomatic. Republican affirmative action, McCarthy-style.
I thought that the need to shit is what binds us all.
I wonder how the mainstream media are going to handle this. That's why they have insurgents rebelling and the reason we went their in the 1st place. It's also why the surge hasn't worked.
Clarification: "back" button hijacked if you click on the link in the main post under the YouTube. Or maybe it's just my computer that gets jacked by Zach?
It has just been suggested to me that if the Senate passes FISA everyone not already registered as an independent should immediately register as one that day or the very next day they are able. It is a very simple thing that would send a clear message and put the Democrats and possibly even the Republicans on notice that we are paying attention and that they have pissed us off!
It has just been suggested to me that if the Senate passes FISA everyone not already registered as an independent should immediately register as one that day or the very next day they are able. It is a very simple thing that would send a clear message and put the Democrats and possibly even the Republicans on notice that we are paying attention and that they have pissed us off!
I don't think that it would be such a good idea. The repugnants and media would portray it as something else.
I signed up for his site and sent him an email inviting him to join mine. That goes for the rest of you too. You get to blog there if you want. Lots of visitors to read what you have to say.
It has just been suggested to me that if the Senate passes FISA everyone not already registered as an independent should immediately register as one that day or the very next day they are able. It is a very simple thing that would send a clear message and put the Democrats and possibly even the Republicans on notice that we are paying attention and that they have pissed us off!
I was thinking about this myself. Got to update my DL info anyway; I'll feel like the DMV trip will be more worthwhile.
I don't care what they portray it as, Ron. The new FISA bill wil do this:
My understanding of this text:
"1. The “notwithstanding” phrase means that this text supercedes checks and balances elsewhere in the bill.
2. If the President’s Attorney General determines there is an emergency, then government agents can engage in a physical search of anyone without a warrant, and continue that search for up to seven days.
3. After the fact, a secret FISA court judge will determine whether the warrantless physical search was actually for the purposes of collecting foreign intelligence information and whether a factual basis for the physical search occurred.
4. Regardless of whether the secret FISA court judge determines the warrantless physical search to be appropriate or not, the President’s Attorney General can use any information obtained in the search by invoking the need to protect the public from death or harm. Only the Attorney General can determine whether the Attorney General is right about this."
I don't care what they portray it as, Ron. The new FISA bill wil do this:
My understanding of this text:
"1. The “notwithstanding” phrase means that this text supercedes checks and balances elsewhere in the bill.
2. If the President’s Attorney General determines there is an emergency, then government agents can engage in a physical search of anyone without a warrant, and continue that search for up to seven days.
3. After the fact, a secret FISA court judge will determine whether the warrantless physical search was actually for the purposes of collecting foreign intelligence information and whether a factual basis for the physical search occurred.
4. Regardless of whether the secret FISA court judge determines the warrantless physical search to be appropriate or not, the President’s Attorney General can use any information obtained in the search by invoking the need to protect the public from death or harm. Only the Attorney General can determine whether the Attorney General is right about this."
I don't care what they portray it as, Ron. The new FISA bill wil do this:
My understanding of this text:
"1. The “notwithstanding” phrase means that this text supercedes checks and balances elsewhere in the bill.
2. If the President’s Attorney General determines there is an emergency, then government agents can engage in a physical search of anyone without a warrant, and continue that search for up to seven days.
3. After the fact, a secret FISA court judge will determine whether the warrantless physical search was actually for the purposes of collecting foreign intelligence information and whether a factual basis for the physical search occurred.
4. Regardless of whether the secret FISA court judge determines the warrantless physical search to be appropriate or not, the President’s Attorney General can use any information obtained in the search by invoking the need to protect the public from death or harm. Only the Attorney General can determine whether the Attorney General is right about this."
I can see it now. Breaking News: Tens of thousands leaving the democrat party and will possibly vote McCain.
I'm sorry but, the power of suggestion will cause Thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands to change their vote. Brainwashing has been working for the repugnants for a long time.
Let's see. Zack is 15 and he has been blogging about politics for two years. He has a head start on a lot of us.
Yep, and I think it's great. I was just saying in a previous thread that the only positive thing out of eight years under this catastrophic failure of the Bush administration was an awareness of our democracy and that the Constitution is not "just a piece of paper." I've become more involved now that I ever have before 2000. "You don't know what you got until its gone."
The physical search, as i understand it (another blogger on my site who seems to be a lawyer wrote this. He is reading the bill and writing about it in segments) refers to all of your property, your safety deposit box, your strage locker and whatever not just your person.
You know what? I don't give a shit how they spin it. If we sit around and worry about how the Corporate Press is going to spin everything we do we may as well go watch American Idol.
What exactly have WE done in the last seven plus years to stop this country from going down the drain?
Look, you guys, we know that they have been brainwashing the people for years. What's it take to reinforce doubt in the peoples minds. Remember, they aren't as informed as we are.
43 Ron Says: Look, you guys, we know that they have been brainwashing the people for years. What’s it take to reinforce doubt in the peoples minds. Remember, they aren’t as informed as we are.
==================
Then this is our opportunity to inform them, isn't it?
We have to make a clear statement first about what we will do if FISA passes and second why we are declaring ourselves as independents if FISA passes.
If we can't get our message out then doing nothing is actually an even better alternative because if we are defeated as a people we may as well face it sooner rather than later. We can all stop dreaming and go about the business of dying.
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 00:02 — Matt in Texas (not verified)
Ron,
And the positives of NOT doing this are ...what? The Dems have screwed us at every turn. We need to send them a loud, clear message. Repig spin only works on the 29%ers.
We have to make a clear statement first about what we will do if FISA passes and second why we are declaring ourselves as independents if FISA passes.
If we can't get our message out then doing nothing is actually an even better alternative because if we are defeated as a people we may as well face it sooner rather than later. We can all stop dreaming and go about the business of dying.
One thing I think we can be sure of. Staffers from both parties are tracking the blogs. Our conversation may be the one that they pay attention to.
We can't afford gas to go to demonstrations that won't be televised anyway. We can't have a national strike because nobody can afford to miss a day of work.
We can all do this. It is simple, straightforward and inexpensive.
Ghandi walked down to the sea and scooped up a handfull of salt. On that day, at that moment the British rule of India was over.
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
And the positives of NOT doing this are ...what? The Dems have screwed us at every turn. We need to send them a loud, clear message. Repig spin only works on the 29%ers.
Xoites is spot on. Fuck these Petain-Dems.
I'm in. I remember very well the 06 election. I remember the picture of Pelosi and others with joined hands raised in victory. I felt such relief and I was full of hope for the future. Since then, they have betrayed us at every turn. They have let us down and fully expect victory in 08. I think they need to know it's not going to be that easy. Nothing scares them more than the possibility of losing.
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
The telecoms have attorneys that should have known it was illegal.
No, Paul. They are not immune just because they broke the law when the Government told them to. For the same reasons (literally) that the nazis were found guilty at Nueremberg.
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
I don't have an answer for you- but another question...
I heard (on nsnbc I think) that this was a CIVIL immunity and not a CRIMINAL one.
Anyone know the truth?
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
That IS the point. THIS is why they want the immunity for the telecoms. This covers bushs' ass. They don't really give a flying fig about the telecoms.
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
That was my understanding from John Dean.
I don't have an answer for you- but another question...
I heard (on nsnbc I think) that this was a CIVIL immunity and not a CRIMINAL one.
Anyone know the truth?
It is total immunity. And among other things it means the next time the Government tells someone to break the law and violate the Constitution they will.
What fun to see this fellow again! Quite inadvertently the video began on C&L AND in a separate youtube window, repeating just a measure or two off. This created a "round" effect that was absolutely delightful. If you are experiencing "Good Feelings" deficiency in the U.S. environment today, I highly recommend this method as an antidote!
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
That was my understanding from John Dean.
I don't have an answer for you- but another question...
I heard (on nsnbc I think) that this was a CIVIL immunity and not a CRIMINAL one.
Anyone know the truth?
Fourth Amendment Of The United States Constitution
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The recent capitualtion of the United States House of Representaives to the Bush Administrations demands for TELECOM IMMUNITY in anticipation of the United States Senate following suit shall not stand. Congress is empowered to pass laws. If they pass a bad law it needs to be repealed. This is bad law and this site seeks to have this law repealed. Please Read Carte blanche to illegally spy on Americans by Tom Burghardt
If it is true that the immunity granted would be Civil only- it lessens the blow slightly.
Of course, it is much more difficult to prove your case in a criminal court than civil (just ask O.J.)
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 00:17 — Matt in Texas (not verified)
"One thing I think we can be sure of. Staffers from both parties are tracking the blogs. Our conversation may be the one that they pay attention to."
OK then. Read and understand, you political hacks: we're tired of your inside-the-beltway shit. There's a progressive/liberal tide swelling that will sweep this country. It's built on the outrage to Bush's neocon self-serving narrow-mindedness, corruption, and war crimes of the past 8 years. As hard to believe as it is, you somehow fucked the American public so bad that your comeuppence is at hand. Steny Hoyer's recent capitulation is only the most recent example of inside-the-beltway deafness to reason.
Be forewarned: your day of reckoning is at hand. You may have pushed the ideals of America to its limit, but there's a groundswell that's gathering to push back that you cannot resist, and your indiscretions will be bared to the public.
True democracy and representation are just around the corner. You can watch it develop from your jail cell.
"One thing I think we can be sure of. Staffers from both parties are tracking the blogs. Our conversation may be the one that they pay attention to."
OK then. Read and understand, you political hacks: we're tired of your inside-the-beltway shit. There's a progressive/liberal tide swelling that will sweep this country. It's built on the outrage to Bush's neocon self-serving narrow-mindedness, corruption, and war crimes of the past 8 years. As hard to believe as it is, you somehow fucked the American public so bad that your comeuppence is at hand. Steny Hoyer's recent capitulation is only the most recent example of inside-the-beltway deafness to reason.
Be forewarned: your day of reckoning is at hand. You may have pushed the ideals of America to its limit, but there's a groundswell that's gathering to push back that you cannot resist, and your indiscretions will be bared to the public.
True democracy and representation are just around the corner. You can watch it develop from your jail cell.
Great, I know that someone is going to get the message.
Which is why the SOTUS will have no choice but to strike the law as unconstitutional... and X, I agree in principle, but I say we purge the criminals from the Democratic Party not the good guys...
Visit www.politicalinsider.net for all the latest political news and opinion. The political insider includes a blog, videos,polls, online survey, election results, political cartoons, web show, money in politcs and much more
Read that article @69, Benny. Then decide how good it is.
Don't get me wrong guys. The FISA issue is number 1 on my list- above the war and economy and flag pins even.
The civil/criminal detail is just something to consider within the big picture.
The only Blog still getting significant media exposure is thepolitco... Huffpo and theDailyKos have been shoved to the side now and C&L never really had a huge foothold...
To me the big picture is we have a lot of work to do to get rid of the laws passed during the Bush Administration. It is going to be hard not only to get the support to repeal them, but i was reading a law book last night. It said repealing a law that amended other laws is really difficult. The Patriot Act and this law amends hundreds of other laws.
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 00:32 — Matt in Texas (not verified)
Hey, x, no problem! Prez Obama just makes a shitload of signing statements, and blackmails Congress into passing whatever he wants, thanks to his newfound FISA "flexibility."
"One thing I think we can be sure of. Staffers from both parties are tracking the blogs. Our conversation may be the one that they pay attention to."
OK then. Read and understand, you political hacks: we're tired of your inside-the-beltway shit. There's a progressive/liberal tide swelling that will sweep this country. It's built on the outrage to Bush's neocon self-serving narrow-mindedness, corruption, and war crimes of the past 8 years. As hard to believe as it is, you somehow fucked the American public so bad that your comeuppence is at hand. Steny Hoyer's recent capitulation is only the most recent example of inside-the-beltway deafness to reason.
Be forewarned: your day of reckoning is at hand. You may have pushed the ideals of America to its limit, but there's a groundswell that's gathering to push back that you cannot resist, and your indiscretions will be bared to the public.
True democracy and representation are just around the corner. You can watch it develop from your jail cell.
It would work a lot better if we had some of the observers participate instead of just wondering what X, you and I are saying. I know that there are thousands of you out there that are keeping quiet. Let's hear from you.
Feingold: ‘Farce’ wiretap deal could be hiding ‘impeachable offense’
“I do think this is a total farce with regard to the immunity [for telecommunications companies]. It basically guarantees the immunity,” Feingold said. “It doesn’t simply have the impact of potentially allowing telephone companies to break the law. It may prevent us from ever getting to the core issue … which is the president ran an illegal program that could’ve been an impeachable offense.”
House Democratic leaders heralded the bill as a “bipartisan compromise” because instead of giving blanket retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that facilitated the president’s warrantless wiretapping program, it would route the grants of immunity through a district court. As long as the companies could demonstrate to a judge that they were instructed to spy on Americans by the Bush administration they would be spared the trouble of litigating more than 40 pending lawsuits , even though they initiated the surveillance without legally required warrants.
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 00:40 — Matt in Texas (not verified)
Good point, Ron. It boggles the mind how so many will pay lip service to democracy, but don't actually get involved. I constantly bang my head against the wall when I return to my rural Maryland home and hear my educated lifelong friends parrot Fox talking points, or worse - express frustration, yet do NOTHING.
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 00:46 — Matt in Texas (not verified)
The frustrating thing is that Hoyer's district has a lot of blacks, and if they ran someone against him (a la Donna Edwards) he could possibly be dumped. But the whites in Southern Maryland are fairly conservative, so a liberal (goddamnit, I'm NOT gonna supplant this term with "progressive" any more!) would have a hard time getting elected.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't aggressively try!!
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 00:55 — Matt in Texas (not verified)
It's been fun and stimulating, folks, but I have to get up in 4.5 hours, and I ran out of beer and am depending on my stash of bootleg Haitian rum (long story) for sustenance, so I'd better sign off.
Let's keep up the good fight - it's our only hope. See you back here soon.
t would work a lot better if we had some of the observers participate instead of just wondering what X, you and I are saying. I know that there are thousands of you out there that are keeping quiet. Let’s hear from you.
Come on out you silent ones. We really want to hear from you.
It's been fun and stimulating, folks, but I have to get up in 4.5 hours, and I ran out of beer and am depending on my stash of bootleg Haitian rum (long story) for sustenance, so I'd better sign off.
Let's keep up the good fight - it's our only hope. See you back here soon.
Good night. I hope we aroused someone and not sexually.
Tue, 06/24/2008 - 01:21 — chris [not the troll] (not verified)
Great, some asshat makes a video of himself traveling all over the world and dancing with cool people, and I can't even afford a full tank of gas for my car.
BERKELEY, CA— Last week, on June 20, the House of Representatives approved a compromise bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA). The bill sets new electronic surveillance rules that effectively shield telecommunications companies from lawsuits resulting from the government’s warrantless eavesdropping on phone calls and viewing of emails of private citizens in the U.S. Approximately 40 lawsuits have been filed with potential damages totaling in the billions of dollars.
On March 14 of this year the House passed an amendment that rejected retroactive immunity for phone carriers who helped the National Security Agency carry out the illegal wiretapping program without proper warrants. Ninety-four House Democrats voted in favor of this measure–rejecting immunity–on March 14, then ‘changed’ to vote in favor of the June 20 House bill–approving immunity.
“Why did these ninety-four House members have a change of heart?” asked Daniel Newman, executive director of MAPLight.org, “Their constituents deserve answers.”
MAPLight.org’s research department compiled PAC campaign contributions from Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint and correlated them with the voting records of all House members who voted on last week’s FISA bill. (The analysis used data from CRP; contributions were from January 2005 through March 2008). Here are the findings: http://www.maplight.org/FISA_June08
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
And now we turn to the Senate…
What shall they do, sell out, too?
BERKELEY, CA— Last week, on June 20, the House of Representatives approved a compromise bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA). The bill sets new electronic surveillance rules that effectively shield telecommunications companies from lawsuits resulting from the government’s warrantless eavesdropping on phone calls and viewing of emails of private citizens in the U.S. Approximately 40 lawsuits have been filed with potential damages totaling in the billions of dollars.
On March 14 of this year the House passed an amendment that rejected retroactive immunity for phone carriers who helped the National Security Agency carry out the illegal wiretapping program without proper warrants. Ninety-four House Democrats voted in favor of this measure–rejecting immunity–on March 14, then ‘changed’ to vote in favor of the June 20 House bill–approving immunity.
“Why did these ninety-four House members have a change of heart?” asked Daniel Newman, executive director of MAPLight.org, “Their constituents deserve answers.”
MAPLight.org’s research department compiled PAC campaign contributions from Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint and correlated them with the voting records of all House members who voted on last week’s FISA bill. (The analysis used data from CRP; contributions were from January 2005 through March 2008). Here are the findings: http://www.maplight.org/FISA_June08
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
And now we turn to the Senate…
What shall they do, sell out, too?
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) filed a cloture motion on H.R. 6304, the FISA Amendments Act, which means votes should take place Wednesday. A leading opponent of the measure, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) says he will not attempt a filibuster but instead settle for highlighting what he sees as the bill's flaw. Speaker Pelosi, who voted for the bill last week, says an extended debate would be a good thing.
The anger and anguish of the privacy absolutists/anti-Bush activists continues to flow, focusing on provisions that would, in effect, grant immunity to the telecom companies that assisted in post 9/11 surveillance of foreign-based communications. A federal district court will determine if the telecoms acted on instructions from the Administration, and -- assuming so -- then dismiss the more than 40 lawsuits filed against the companies.
Salon's Glenn Greenwald, a lawyer, is the go-to guy for the opponents of the bill; his commentary is here. And there's a lot of this kind of sentiment, expressed at the Progressive Magazine: "Barack Obama's rightward sprint is nowhere more obvious than in his betrayal on the FISA bill."
Posted by Carter Wood at 3:49 PM |
Democrat planning to highlight bill flaws WASHINGTON — Wisconsin Sen. Russ Feingold will not filibuster a compromise version of an electronic surveillance program, although he thinks it will infringe on U.S. citizens’ civil liberties.
Feingold, a Democrat, said he and other Senate opponents won’t try to stop the vote, but they “won’t allow it to pass quickly.”
Instead, Feingold told an audience at the New America Foundation that he plans to highlight the bill’s flaws in floor speeches. There may be several procedural votes before final passage, he added. Feingold said he and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., met with Senate leader Harry Reid last week to discuss their objections.
BERKELEY, CA— Last week, on June 20, the House of Representatives approved a compromise bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA). The bill sets new electronic surveillance rules that effectively shield telecommunications companies from lawsuits resulting from the government’s warrantless eavesdropping on phone calls and viewing of emails of private citizens in the U.S. Approximately 40 lawsuits have been filed with potential damages totaling in the billions of dollars.
On March 14 of this year the House passed an amendment that rejected retroactive immunity for phone carriers who helped the National Security Agency carry out the illegal wiretapping program without proper warrants. Ninety-four House Democrats voted in favor of this measure–rejecting immunity–on March 14, then ‘changed’ to vote in favor of the June 20 House bill–approving immunity.
“Why did these ninety-four House members have a change of heart?” asked Daniel Newman, executive director of MAPLight.org, “Their constituents deserve answers.”
MAPLight.org’s research department compiled PAC campaign contributions from Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint and correlated them with the voting records of all House members who voted on last week’s FISA bill. (The analysis used data from CRP; contributions were from January 2005 through March 2008). Here are the findings: http://www.maplight.org/FISA_June08
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
And now we turn to the Senate…
What shall they do, sell out, too?
.
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
I can't believe I had so much faith in Obama. Fuck the Democrats and fuck the Republicans. I refuse to vote. Maybe some extraordinary number of circumstances will present themselves to prevent this FISA bill from passing, but somehow I doubt it. George Carllin was right; "This country is finished". And now, Obama wants us to help Clinton relieve herself of her debt. Sorry, I've got my own debt, and I don't make 150K a year. I was so enthusiastic about Obama, and while he's by no means as atrocious as McCain, he's still turning out to be more than a little disappointing.
Vote yes on FISA Barack, and here's one vote that's staying home. NC
The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Methodist pastor from Texas and longtime supporter of President Bush who has endorsed Obama, said Tuesday he belongs to a group of religious leaders who, working independently of Obama's campaign, launched a Web site to counter Dobson at http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com . The site highlights statements from Obama and Dobson and asks visitors to compare them.
Caldwell said he has great respect for Dobson's advocacy for families, but said the criticism of Obama was "a bit over the top" and "crossed the line."
"There has been a call for a higher level of politics and politicking," Caldwell said. "So to attack at this level is inappropriate and I think unacceptable and we at least want to hold everybody accountable."
Tom Minnery, a senior vice president at Focus on the Family, responded: "Without question, Dr. Dobson is speaking for millions of evangelicals because his understanding of the Bible is thoroughly evangelical."
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) filed a cloture motion on H.R. 6304, the FISA Amendments Act, which means votes should take place Wednesday. A leading opponent of the measure, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) says he will not attempt a filibuster but instead settle for highlighting what he sees as the bill's flaw. Speaker Pelosi, who voted for the bill last week, says an extended debate would be a good thing.
The anger and anguish of the privacy absolutists/anti-Bush activists continues to flow, focusing on provisions that would, in effect, grant immunity to the telecom companies that assisted in post 9/11 surveillance of foreign-based communications. A federal district court will determine if the telecoms acted on instructions from the Administration, and -- assuming so -- then dismiss the more than 40 lawsuits filed against the companies.
Salon's Glenn Greenwald, a lawyer, is the go-to guy for the opponents of the bill; his commentary is here. And there's a lot of this kind of sentiment, expressed at the Progressive Magazine: "Barack Obama's rightward sprint is nowhere more obvious than in his betrayal on the FISA bill."
Posted by Carter Wood at 3:49 PM |
.
harry and nancy are working against us. hoyer is pelosi's guy. she picked him over murtha.
Login or Register to post comments.
New York Times’s Public Editor Seeks ‘Castration’ of Maureen Dowd
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=1952
Ok, haven't watched PBS's Newhour in a long time - finally caught it tonight. Sorry, it's very detailed but it's a snoozefest. They need a bit of an overhaul for our attention deprived population. They have so much good information but it's just packaged soooooooooo wrong.
Please don’t bring this website to the level of The Onion.
The story is neither true nor funny, only lame....
Oh wait- that was last night.
:P
One hell of a rehearsal for January 20th!
Visit www.politicalinsider.net for all the latest political news and opinion. The political insider includes a blog, videos,polls, online survey, election results, political cartoons, web show, money in politcs and much more
www.politicalinsider.net
Ps: please subscribe to the political insider for free. It only takes thirty seconds!
xoites defends Constitution @ 4:
Ya gotta know us old guys can't dance all over the world.
I don't need to dance all over the world. i will be dancing right where i am just like everybody else. :)
Wow. Great video! Made my day. Thanks.
Obama targets his message to working women. Pelosi lets Big Oil continue to screw us, too, but at least she's fighting offshore drilling. Obama 0wns Dobson. A hiring fair gets a huge turn-out in Michigan, for some reason. Meanwhile, car-makers would rather bribe
consumers to buy their unsold SUVs than invest in better vehicles. The West would rather make it easier for Iran to lose the Drug War than be more diplomatic. Republican affirmative action, McCarthy-style.
Heat and electricity rates are rising.
Zack@5
Your Presidential Poll has McCain, Clinton and Nader.
Maybe you should update?
The Leprechaun Shuffle?
Oh, Zack is 15.
xoites defends Constitution @ 11:
Lol- I just saw that myself.
GO TO BED ZACK.
Let's see. Zack is 15 and he has been blogging about politics for two years. He has a head start on a lot of us.
xoites defends Constitution @ 14:
I hope he is one of us even if he can't vote yet.
Bush lies about allowing Iraq to choose how it handles its oil.
Zack's been jacked. Anyone got the link?
I thought that the need to shit is what binds us all.
Over 300,000 cribs are recalled, after they trap a few babies. Gore was right about global warming spreading more disease.
Zack's page:
http://www.politicalinsider.net/
Maldoror @ 18:
I wonder how the mainstream media are going to handle this. That's why they have insurgents rebelling and the reason we went their in the 1st place. It's also why the surge hasn't worked.
Apparently, Zach also hijacks your "back" button.
Oaktown Girl @ 22:
Clarification: "back" button hijacked if you click on the link in the main post under the YouTube. Or maybe it's just my computer that gets jacked by Zach?
It has just been suggested to me that if the Senate passes FISA everyone not already registered as an independent should immediately register as one that day or the very next day they are able. It is a very simple thing that would send a clear message and put the Democrats and possibly even the Republicans on notice that we are paying attention and that they have pissed us off!
xoites defends Constitution @ 20:
Thanks :)
...watching his "Weekly Web Show" now...decent cartoon page too...nice kid. We should encourage him. Imagine if political awareness went viral with teens...
xoites defends Constitution @ 24:
I don't think that it would be such a good idea. The repugnants and media would portray it as something else.
I signed up for his site and sent him an email inviting him to join mine. That goes for the rest of you too. You get to blog there if you want. Lots of visitors to read what you have to say.
http://repealfisa.wordpress.com/
xoites defends Constitution @ 24:
I was thinking about this myself. Got to update my DL info anyway; I'll feel like the DMV trip will be more worthwhile.
Any odds given on the filibuster time?
I don't care what they portray it as, Ron. The new FISA bill wil do this:
My understanding of this text:
"1. The “notwithstanding” phrase means that this text supercedes checks and balances elsewhere in the bill.
2. If the President’s Attorney General determines there is an emergency, then government agents can engage in a physical search of anyone without a warrant, and continue that search for up to seven days.
3. After the fact, a secret FISA court judge will determine whether the warrantless physical search was actually for the purposes of collecting foreign intelligence information and whether a factual basis for the physical search occurred.
4. Regardless of whether the secret FISA court judge determines the warrantless physical search to be appropriate or not, the President’s Attorney General can use any information obtained in the search by invoking the need to protect the public from death or harm. Only the Attorney General can determine whether the Attorney General is right about this."
http://repealfisa.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/neglected-portion-of-hr-6304-...
xoites defends Constitution @ 29:
So, you think leaving the party at this time will be a solution. Come on, you know better. Right now we have to make sure we get the repugs out.
xoites defends Constitution @ 29:
A seven day bodily search?!
I don't have that kind of stamina anymore.
Words of wisdom.....Bush To Filipino President: "I Am Reminded Of The Great Talent Of Our Philippine Americans When I Eat Dinner At The White House"
Ron, you can still vote in the elecection for whoever you want to. The Democrats can not be allowed to think we support this cave in.
xoites defends Constitution @ 33:
This may be a good idea (or not)- I just don't like the idea of 'registering' myself as anything.
I can see it now. Breaking News: Tens of thousands leaving the democrat party and will possibly vote McCain.
I'm sorry but, the power of suggestion will cause Thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands to change their vote. Brainwashing has been working for the repugnants for a long time.
xoites defends Constitution @ 14:
Yep, and I think it's great. I was just saying in a previous thread that the only positive thing out of eight years under this catastrophic failure of the Bush administration was an awareness of our democracy and that the Constitution is not "just a piece of paper." I've become more involved now that I ever have before 2000. "You don't know what you got until its gone."
The physical search, as i understand it (another blogger on my site who seems to be a lawyer wrote this. He is reading the bill and writing about it in segments) refers to all of your property, your safety deposit box, your strage locker and whatever not just your person.
No, Ron. We don't say we are leaving to vote for McCAin.
We say (and i mean we notify the press and the blogisphere) that we are leaving because the Democrats and the Republicans do not deserve our support.
xoites defends Constitution @ 38:
Look at what I posted at #35. That's how they will spin it.
"Ron, you can still vote in the elecection for whoever you want to. The Democrats can not be allowed to think we support this cave in."
I like this idea. It sends a message, but doesn't preclude us from voting for the lesser of two evils (so to speak.)
"7 day bodily search????" Does that include a massage and sweet nothings whispered in my ear?
You know what? I don't give a shit how they spin it. If we sit around and worry about how the Corporate Press is going to spin everything we do we may as well go watch American Idol.
What exactly have WE done in the last seven plus years to stop this country from going down the drain?
Not very good, are they.
Look, you guys, we know that they have been brainwashing the people for years. What's it take to reinforce doubt in the peoples minds. Remember, they aren't as informed as we are.
If by body massage you mean being softened up, maybe.
43 Ron Says: Look, you guys, we know that they have been brainwashing the people for years. What’s it take to reinforce doubt in the peoples minds. Remember, they aren’t as informed as we are.
==================
Then this is our opportunity to inform them, isn't it?
Imagine the reaction in Congress if every member got an email that simply said, "If FISA passes I am leaving the party."
Now imagine the reaction if every member got thousands or tens of thousands of those emails.
xoites defends Constitution @ 44:
All the MSM and the right wing have to do is massage the uninformed peoples minds in the negative. Great analogy.
Ok, Ron. Let's do nothing. That always works.
xoites defends Constitution @ 48:
Lets get Zack to help!
xoites defends Constitution @ 48:
I didn't say do nothing, I just look at the negatives of doing this. We have to think one step ahead of them.
We have to make a clear statement first about what we will do if FISA passes and second why we are declaring ourselves as independents if FISA passes.
If we can't get our message out then doing nothing is actually an even better alternative because if we are defeated as a people we may as well face it sooner rather than later. We can all stop dreaming and go about the business of dying.
Ron,
And the positives of NOT doing this are ...what? The Dems have screwed us at every turn. We need to send them a loud, clear message. Repig spin only works on the 29%ers.
Xoites is spot on. Fuck these Petain-Dems.
Ron @ 50:
I am assuming you are both registered Democrats.
Could you, perhaps, publicly rip up your party cards/papers?
xoites defends Constitution @ 51:
One thing I think we can be sure of. Staffers from both parties are tracking the blogs. Our conversation may be the one that they pay attention to.
BennyP @ 53:
I could wipe my ass with it, but it isn't that big of a piece of paper.
We can't afford gas to go to demonstrations that won't be televised anyway. We can't have a national strike because nobody can afford to miss a day of work.
We can all do this. It is simple, straightforward and inexpensive.
Ghandi walked down to the sea and scooped up a handfull of salt. On that day, at that moment the British rule of India was over.
I'm a little confused about the Telecom Immunity provisions. Even if these companies didn't get immunity, wouldn't it be VERY likely that they would be found not guilty. For what they have said, weren't they instructed by the government that this wasn't illegal. How can we blame a company for trusting what the government says. Aren't the real criminals the people who broke the law by even making said "illegal wiretapping" program. If it really was illegal, why don't the people sue those who told the communications companies that this was legal? I'm no friend of business, I'm just a little confused over the hugeness of this controversy.
I will happily burn mine in front of Democratic Headquarters if FISA passes.
Hell, in front of Harry Reid' office. I live in Las Vegas.
Matt in Texas @ 52:
I'm in. I remember very well the 06 election. I remember the picture of Pelosi and others with joined hands raised in victory. I felt such relief and I was full of hope for the future. Since then, they have betrayed us at every turn. They have let us down and fully expect victory in 08. I think they need to know it's not going to be that easy. Nothing scares them more than the possibility of losing.
Paul @ 58:
The telecoms have attorneys that should have known it was illegal.
No, Paul. They are not immune just because they broke the law when the Government told them to. For the same reasons (literally) that the nazis were found guilty at Nueremberg.
Paul @ 58:
I don't have an answer for you- but another question...
I heard (on nsnbc I think) that this was a CIVIL immunity and not a CRIMINAL one.
Anyone know the truth?
Paul @ 58:
That IS the point. THIS is why they want the immunity for the telecoms. This covers bushs' ass. They don't really give a flying fig about the telecoms.
BennyP @ 63:
It is total immunity. And among other things it means the next time the Government tells someone to break the law and violate the Constitution they will.
What fun to see this fellow again! Quite inadvertently the video began on C&L AND in a separate youtube window, repeating just a measure or two off. This created a "round" effect that was absolutely delightful. If you are experiencing "Good Feelings" deficiency in the U.S. environment today, I highly recommend this method as an antidote!
Ron @ 65:
That was my understanding from John Dean.
Fourth Amendment Of The United States Constitution
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The recent capitualtion of the United States House of Representaives to the Bush Administrations demands for TELECOM IMMUNITY in anticipation of the United States Senate following suit shall not stand. Congress is empowered to pass laws. If they pass a bad law it needs to be repealed. This is bad law and this site seeks to have this law repealed. Please Read Carte blanche to illegally spy on Americans by Tom Burghardt
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/06/21/carte-blanche-to-illegall...
If it is true that the immunity granted would be Civil only- it lessens the blow slightly.
Of course, it is much more difficult to prove your case in a criminal court than civil (just ask O.J.)
Sorry, by "this site" i was refering to mine.
"One thing I think we can be sure of. Staffers from both parties are tracking the blogs. Our conversation may be the one that they pay attention to."
OK then. Read and understand, you political hacks: we're tired of your inside-the-beltway shit. There's a progressive/liberal tide swelling that will sweep this country. It's built on the outrage to Bush's neocon self-serving narrow-mindedness, corruption, and war crimes of the past 8 years. As hard to believe as it is, you somehow fucked the American public so bad that your comeuppence is at hand. Steny Hoyer's recent capitulation is only the most recent example of inside-the-beltway deafness to reason.
Be forewarned: your day of reckoning is at hand. You may have pushed the ideals of America to its limit, but there's a groundswell that's gathering to push back that you cannot resist, and your indiscretions will be bared to the public.
True democracy and representation are just around the corner. You can watch it develop from your jail cell.
Read that article @69, Benny. Then decide how good it is.
If you smile at me I will understand because that is something everyone does in the same language!
Matt in Texas @ 72:
Great, I know that someone is going to get the message.
X @ 69
Which is why the SOTUS will have no choice but to strike the law as unconstitutional... and X, I agree in principle, but I say we purge the criminals from the Democratic Party not the good guys...
Check it out!!!
zack @ 5:
matt blunt isn't running for reelection in missouri. that site is full of crap.
xoites defends Constitution @ 73:
Don't get me wrong guys. The FISA issue is number 1 on my list- above the war and economy and flag pins even.
The civil/criminal detail is just something to consider within the big picture.
Charles, Zack is 15.
The only Blog still getting significant media exposure is thepolitco... Huffpo and theDailyKos have been shoved to the side now and C&L never really had a huge foothold...
To me the big picture is we have a lot of work to do to get rid of the laws passed during the Bush Administration. It is going to be hard not only to get the support to repeal them, but i was reading a law book last night. It said repealing a law that amended other laws is really difficult. The Patriot Act and this law amends hundreds of other laws.
We need to go around the Corporate Media or we will never get anything done.
Hey, x, no problem! Prez Obama just makes a shitload of signing statements, and blackmails Congress into passing whatever he wants, thanks to his newfound FISA "flexibility."
Damn, I love America!
Matt in Texas @ 72:
It would work a lot better if we had some of the observers participate instead of just wondering what X, you and I are saying. I know that there are thousands of you out there that are keeping quiet. Let's hear from you.
Feingold: ‘Farce’ wiretap deal could be hiding ‘impeachable offense’
“I do think this is a total farce with regard to the immunity [for telecommunications companies]. It basically guarantees the immunity,” Feingold said. “It doesn’t simply have the impact of potentially allowing telephone companies to break the law. It may prevent us from ever getting to the core issue … which is the president ran an illegal program that could’ve been an impeachable offense.”
House Democratic leaders heralded the bill as a “bipartisan compromise” because instead of giving blanket retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that facilitated the president’s warrantless wiretapping program, it would route the grants of immunity through a district court. As long as the companies could demonstrate to a judge that they were instructed to spy on Americans by the Bush administration they would be spared the trouble of litigating more than 40 pending lawsuits , even though they initiated the surveillance without legally required warrants.
“This is an astonishing giveaway,” Feingold said.
http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/23/feingold-farce-wiretap-deal-could-...
Good point, Ron. It boggles the mind how so many will pay lip service to democracy, but don't actually get involved. I constantly bang my head against the wall when I return to my rural Maryland home and hear my educated lifelong friends parrot Fox talking points, or worse - express frustration, yet do NOTHING.
Goddamnit, government is an active process!!
I live in Feingold country- and very proud of it.
BennyP @ 88:
Correction ...and very proud of HIM.
Living here sux shit, otherwise.
Yes we are all individuals!!!
I want Feingold to be President. Then we could all live in Feingold Country. He is the only Constitutionalist in the Senate.
Thousands of us (EL) @ 90:
Speak out or forever lay in the bed you've made for yourself.
Hi Thousands!
Pull out your clout and wield it, please.
The frustrating thing is that Hoyer's district has a lot of blacks, and if they ran someone against him (a la Donna Edwards) he could possibly be dumped. But the whites in Southern Maryland are fairly conservative, so a liberal (goddamnit, I'm NOT gonna supplant this term with "progressive" any more!) would have a hard time getting elected.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't aggressively try!!
Tell him your selves.
http://www.russfeingold.org/
I supported him while he tested the waters for a presidential run- short lived as it was.
Make my bed *heh*... Now that is funny...
EliteLemming @ 96:
I knew it was you, LOL, jerk.
But... American Idol is on... An' all I have to do is use the phone...
Millions of us (EL) @ 98:
Oh shit, I missed it again.
94 Matt in Texas
Calvert County, Maryland. Home of Tom Clancy who lives in Prince Frederick. Now there is a hot bed of radicalism.
I think that your 'thousands' are basically the 4 or of us.
I'm setting up my new painting studio- what are your excuses for being up?
It's been fun and stimulating, folks, but I have to get up in 4.5 hours, and I ran out of beer and am depending on my stash of bootleg Haitian rum (long story) for sustenance, so I'd better sign off.
Let's keep up the good fight - it's our only hope. See you back here soon.
Here is my excuse:
http://repealfisa.wordpress.com/
Oh and bgi ups to shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, mothefucker, and twat... And the man who made them famous...
Good night, matt.
t would work a lot better if we had some of the observers participate instead of just wondering what X, you and I are saying. I know that there are thousands of you out there that are keeping quiet. Let’s hear from you.
Come on out you silent ones. We really want to hear from you.
Night is my day... And I count five...
Matt in Texas @ 102:
Good night. I hope we aroused someone and not sexually.
Why no just open chat over there X?
The site is three days old, Elite. I can turn off the electricty here at home and talk to myself if that is what i want to do.
Sorry, I guess I"m a true American... Cuz i wannit all NOW!
xoites defends Constitution @ 103:
X- site looks great, by the way.
Thanks, Benny. It is your site too if you want it to be. It is for everyone to blog on.
Well, goodnight all. I have to go plan the reovolution and get some sleep.
xoites defends Constitution @ 113:
Let me kow what the plans are ASAP!
GNA... Gotta post my FiBI report...
I'm out too.
Fumes are getting to me:)
Viva la Revolution!
I must have been mistaken about the thousands that were observers.
Great, some asshat makes a video of himself traveling all over the world and dancing with cool people, and I can't even afford a full tank of gas for my car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rMVkrlKJvM
GNA, Ihope the observers wake up and participte.
xoites defends Constitution @ 34:
It's not a cave-in, it's a declaration of war.
chris [not the troll] @ 120:
Call it that!
.
HOUSE DEMS WHO CHANGED THEIR VOTE TO SUPPORT FISA BILL, GIVING IMMUNITY TO TELCOS, RECEIVED, ON AVERAGE, $8,359 IN PAC CONTRIBUTIONS FROM VERIZON, AT&T, AND SPRINT
On March 14 of this year the House passed an amendment that rejected retroactive immunity for phone carriers who helped the National Security Agency carry out the illegal wiretapping program without proper warrants. Ninety-four House Democrats voted in favor of this measure–rejecting immunity–on March 14, then ‘changed’ to vote in favor of the June 20 House bill–approving immunity.
“Why did these ninety-four House members have a change of heart?” asked Daniel Newman, executive director of MAPLight.org, “Their constituents deserve answers.”
MAPLight.org’s research department compiled PAC campaign contributions from Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint and correlated them with the voting records of all House members who voted on last week’s FISA bill. (The analysis used data from CRP; contributions were from January 2005 through March 2008). Here are the findings: http://www.maplight.org/FISA_June08
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
And now we turn to the Senate…
What shall they do, sell out, too?
.
A good time to keep your mouth shut is when you're in deep water.
If you don't have a sense of humor, you probably don't have any sense at all.
Another day in Iraq, another bomb.
.
I wish the Dancers in this video ruled the world.
.
then all the nuanced rape of humanity would be stomped to death by human joy.
.
McCain says WW3 would lead to a new draft. Anyone think his neo-con buddies aren't planning for that already? Bush hates health research programs.
Silent Patriot,
I had one hell of rough day today at work. I watched that video and I couldn't stop smiling, even as the tears streamed down my cheeks.
Thank you.
Tim in Japan
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 122:
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
And now we turn to the Senate…
What shall they do, sell out, too?
.
i hope it's filibuster feingold friday
.
.
thanks i think........i was dreaming and i'm not sleeping yet...ok maybe censure bush and cheney
.
THEY(sic) INTEND TO LET THIS BILL PASS.
.
Yay! Dancing Matt!
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 122:
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
And now we turn to the Senate…
What shall they do, sell out, too?
.
Our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties are being sold out from under us by our own…
An act of TREASON!
$9000. Geez they sold us out cheap.
C&L, this was a fun video to watch. Nice touch.
By the way, the scene at the DMZ in Korea .....aaaaaawkward.
.
When will Loyal Christians(R) learn that it was Christ who was tortured?
.
I can't believe I had so much faith in Obama. Fuck the Democrats and fuck the Republicans. I refuse to vote. Maybe some extraordinary number of circumstances will present themselves to prevent this FISA bill from passing, but somehow I doubt it. George Carllin was right; "This country is finished". And now, Obama wants us to help Clinton relieve herself of her debt. Sorry, I've got my own debt, and I don't make 150K a year. I was so enthusiastic about Obama, and while he's by no means as atrocious as McCain, he's still turning out to be more than a little disappointing.
Vote yes on FISA Barack, and here's one vote that's staying home. NC
To comment on the video: One of the best I've seen in a long, long time. It brought me to the verge of tears. Very well done.
The professor who had a noose outside her door coincidentally got fired, due to plagiarism allegations.
Diabetes: Over 20 million Americans served.
"7 xoites defends Constitution Says: I don’t need to dance all over the world. i will be dancing right where i am just like everybody else. :)"
=======================
The block party will be worldwide. I'll dance for you in Korea!!
Should have ended in a rave type setting at the Privelege nightclub in Ibiza!
I'm so envious of people that get to travel so much. :(
BennyP @ 35:
some places may not allow you to vote unless your last registration is 6 months or longer. that period may vary form state to state.
What a great way to start my morning!
Even better than coffee.
Thanks!!! :-)
thanks, Tequila
Tequila @ 138:
it seems that in NY education, being black is a curse.
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 129:
harry and nancy are working against us. hoyer is pelosi's guy. she picked him over murtha.
Approval Is Near for Bill to Help U.S. Homeowners
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Congress is poised to pass a huge package of housing legislation, including a refinancing plan aimed at rescuing homeowners in danger of foreclosure.
Florida Buying Big Sugar Tract for Everglades
By DAMIEN CAVE
The dream of a restored Everglades moved a step closer to reality when the nation's largest sugarcane producer agreed to sell all of its assets to the state.
- QUOTATION OF THE DAY -
"Before it was 'we spend too much time driving.' Now, it's 'we spend too much time and money driving.'" - PHIL BOYLE, who lives in a suburb an hour from his job in Denver.
Login or Register to post comments.