McCain Jokes About Beating His Wife
By Nicole Belle Thursday Jun 26, 2008 8:00pm
Even as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama held their first joint campaign appearance today in New Hampshire, new polls show Obama is rapidly consolidating his sizable leads among women in general and Clinton supporters in particular.
Which means that John McCain chose the wrong day to make a wife-beating joke.
As the Huffington Post reported, McCain in an interview with the Las Vegas Sun headed for the gutter while trying to explain why he did not choose Republican Governor Jim Gibbons (now in the midst of a messy divorce and previously the subject of sexual assault allegations) as his Nevada campaign chair:
McCain: I appreciate his support. As you know, the lieutenant governor is our chairman.
Q: Why snub the governor?
McCain: I didn't mean to snub him. I've known the lieutenant governor for 15 years and we've been good friends....I didn't intend to snub him. There are other states where the governor is not the chairman.
Q: Maybe it's the governor's approval rating and you are running from him like you are from the president?
McCain: (Chuckling) And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago...
At an Ohio press conference today, McCain only dug himself a deeper hole. Trying to evade a reporter's question about Barack Obama's assertion that "John McCain, if he's elected, is going to pick a Supreme Court that will roll back every gain women have made in the last 50 years," a testy McCain claimed "I think my record speaks clearly for itself."
And that could be a problem for Mr. Straight Talk. As Jon at Perrspectives notes in a discussion about the supposed maverick's failing outreach to Clinton supporters, leave aside for the moment McCain's horrendous stands on the issues most important to women voters. It's McCain's horrendous behavior towards American women, including those closest to him, that should send Clinton backers fleeing for the exits.
UPDATE: Many commenters seem to think that this is no big deal and that I'm unfamiliar with the famous "gotcha" question of "When did you stop beating your wife?". Those commenters are missing the bigger picture. The response--especially from a man with a reputation for being a hothead--is wholly inappropriate, kind of like Donald Trump saying his daughter was hot. A presidential candidate should not be making a joke like that which can be so easily taken out of context...can you imagine how the media would have played and played it if Barack Obama--or worse, Bill Clinton--had said the same thing in the same context? Further, McCain is supposed to be trying to win over some of Hillary Clinton's supporters...the point of the post is asking how this kind of tone-deafness and latent misogyny (again, something the blogosphere seems to find untroubling, which I personally find disturbing) is going to attract those supporters.
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you stay classy, john mccain.
What an idiot.
Pity poor old John McCain
He's either senile or insane
So his wife needs a beating
Worse than any old Keating
Whatever -- McCain is McSAME
Here's one aspect of what women can expect under a John McBu'ush presidency.
“John McCain, if he’s elected, is going to pick a Supreme Court that will roll back every gain women have made in the last 50 years.”
True statement.
Awright...I'm no fan of McCain but was obviously referencing the 'when did you stop beating your wife' line of questioning.
The title of this post is kind of a stretch....
It's called asking a loaded question. The most common example is, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
.
Dear Senator,
That dog doesn't McHunt anymore.
.
Cheney: So?
Baddog @ 5:
I'm with this guy.
I know you're sort of professionally obliged to be outraged by everything McCain says, but this is really silly. McCain made a slightly risque joke. That's all. If you feign outrage over this, it's going to be pretty hard for you to defend perfectly innocent jokes that come from the mouths of Dems (e.g. Al Franken, to name just one, off the top of my head).
"Common" is right. Anybody that references wife-beating for light-hearted banter or some supposed levity is missing the point: Joking about wife-beating ranks right up there with references to tar-babies and embodies everything oppressive about patriarchal civilization.
It's exactly why we need to move into the 21st century.
Baddog @ 5:
I know the reference, and am familiar with the old saying.
What I do not like is the fact that someone who is running for our highest office would use those words. I expect more professionalism. I do not want another 4 years of having the POTUS embarrass this country every other time he opens his mouth. I think we've all had enough of that.
Baddog @ 5:
The point, I guess, is that he shouldn't be signing up as a contestant on "Last Comic Standing." Maybe that lame quip isn't on a par with his little "bomb, bomb Iran" schitck, but The Mind of McSame-a should leave the comedt to others.
“I think my record speaks clearly for itself.”
Oh how true, Jonnyboy. How true.
He wasn't joking about beating his wife. When loaded questions are asked, "When did you stop beating your wife?" is often used as an example. As much as we all can't wait to vote against McCain, this headline and the accompanying photo are pathetic.
Diggy @ 9:
Its on Drudge and other blogs too.
Not a good way to win over Clinton voters.
hopefully mccain's got the balls to sock the old trollop in public, before the cameras...
c'mon, maverick... triple-dog dare ya'!
Diggy @ 9:
Baddog @ 5:
alicia01 @ 6:
Exactly. As a matter of fact, it's quite possibly the only time I've actually appreciated John McCain's attempt at humor.
"Senator, have you finally stopped getting drunk and beating your wife?"
"No! I mean, yes! Hey, wait a minute!"
"Just answer the question, Senator! Yes or no, which is it!?!"
LOL!! I love that one...
BobbyG @ 12:
So I'm voting for Obama this November, no doubt. But McCain does have the most developed sense of humor out of any of the candidates this go round, Democratic or Republican. That man is a riot, and this is no exception. I hardly think having a president with wit would be the end of the world.
Meaningless. He thinks he's so clever and uses women for jokes. Surprise.
JP @ 14:
Well, yeah, you're right, of course, but as a political tactical matter, it's akin to his saying "don't you even think about spousal abuse."
He needs much better quip writers, or just stick to straight lines.
I have zero love for McSame, but the above post is 100% correct. Lets pin him on his real agenda folks not something that is going to make us look like a bunch of politically correct pansies.
enough @ 19:
He is clever. It's just his politics that aren't...
"Joking"....yeah.....right.
It isn't a mysogynist joke. It's a "you're asking me a loaded question" joke.
There are many legitimate reasons to rip on McCain. This isn't one of them.
One of these days, Alice, one of these days... zam, boom, to the moon!
GotRights @ 24:
See my #4. Read the post in the link. Legit reason to oppose McBu'ush.
Sorry Nicole...
Yawn.
Attila the McCabe, King of Questioners @ 25:
Yep.
GotRights @ 24:
Exactly.
"Tell me, Senator, when did you stop beating your wife?"
It is a loaded question and this example was quite popular during McCain's generation and before.
His response to the question, "Maybe it’s the governor’s approval rating and you are running from him like you are from the president?" Was an indication that he took the question to be a loaded one.
McCain, "And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago…"
The comment about "bitter and clinging" was in the context of the effects of NAFTA, yet that is never mentioned when bashing Obama for that quotation. That's what makes comments like this fair game.
Are you so clueless that you don't recognize the reference to the unanswerable question:
This sort of baseless attach just makes McCain look better.
He's joking about entrapping questions asked by the media, not about physical abuse.
But I'll probably be voting Socialist this year.
The only reason to vote for obama would be the next president will appoint 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices.
But obama keeps voting to extend the war funding, supporting new strict FISA rules and the death penalty
What difference will he make?
If he stopped beating her two weeks ago, why is she still on Percocet?
His Chelsea Clinton joke was much more subtle.
Quick! Someone photoshop him in one of these
Johnny2Bad @ 29:
It's a bad answer, but not for the perceived misogyny.
McLogic is trying to shake this off as if the reporter is making the fallacy known as "begging the question" (the wife-beating version being the most popular. But when you beg the question, you present something like wife-beating as fact, and the reporter, leading the question with a "maybe" was doing no such thing.
McTwist should have been able to dodge that question much more artfully, but, ya know, third from the bottom of his class at the Academy.
Meh.
Old lawyer joke: "Sir, have you stopped beating your wife?"
"I never beat my wife!"
"Just give a yes or no answer, sir!"
We can find better stuff to beat up McSame on than this.
The idea that McCain was going to get the vote of Democratic women who wanted Hillary always struck me as a desperate troll meme. Please! It's ridiculous and should be treated as empty propaganda.
Andy K Jong Il @ 37:
It may have been an inadequate answer to the question, but it was not a joke about beating his wife.
Busta @ 38:
Let's go at him from the anti-lawyer angle. Yeah, that's the ticket. He hates lawyers, see, so he makes fun of them
I don't think anyone here is taking any of this seriously, people are just having fun with it... you know, kinda like the "liberal" media would be doing if Obama had said it.
dada @ 42:
I would rather make fun of something he said that was more seriouse. Certainly he must have said something silly...
xoites defends Constitution @ 40:
No, it was a joke about Gibbons beating his wife.
I can't believe I glossed over that Gibbons was the governor in question. I should close a tab and/or a window or two.
At least he didn't call Cindy a trollop and a c### again. What a cad.
Actually, I've reconsidered my position.
It was offensive, inappropriate and thoroughly deplorable.
What he should have said is: "Have you stopped beating your life partner?"
Busta @ 38:
Exactly. McCain was making a humorous reference to the fact that the question had (sort of) a false presupposition.
Unfortunately, this is politics today. Of course he was referencing the "loaded question". But we are obligated to show our faux outrage about every one of McCain's ill-advised statements. It's only fair given that the other side will do it.
We could take the high road and lose, but I prefer to beat the Republican scumbags at their own game, and force them to change their ways.
Don't blame me -
I'm voting for Kodos!
What? Harriet Christian loves men like John McCain. Big and strong and decisive. She likes being told what and when to do. When she says no, she means yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s
ebone @ 21:
which translates as 'women enjoy being battered' yep that will go down well with the the democrat liberal leaning wimmin.
More troubling to me is the seeming rollout of the race card by McCain surrogates...Norquist saying John Kerry with a tan... Small market radio talker launching into a long diatribe of readings about Michelle Obama's college paper and comments about her, which I wrote about tonight at my homeblog. The McCain/Republican campaign Usual Suspects appear to be ramping up the racial dogwhistles and under-the-radar small-market attacks right on cue as the Democrats launch Unity.
Democrats = Unity
Republicans = nuthin' but South Carolina-style slime
Andy K Jong Il @ 37:
he got promoted to fourth from the bottom, when the dead student was removed from the list.
Lilybelle @ 39:
Do you think its a power dominatrix thing with certain women desperately wanting Hillary, or do they secretly lust after Bill !
Bitter Bud Hussein @ 49:
Kodos...Kang...What's the difference? Two sides of the same coin.
Everyone knows that Ron Paul is the most fit candidate for the job.
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.
.
.
.
.
Uhm, anyone got a link to the place where I can donate to Kang and Kodos?
I really hope liberal bloggers don't do this all election: it's obvious he was using a phrase well-known to anyone with a high school education to indicate a loaded question. I wouldn't believe for a second that the bloggers at this site haven't used it in their lifetime.
Please don't make liberals look like idiots. There's plenty to criticize about McCain, legitimately.
Yes. By making that crack, John McCain let it be known that he will be passing legislation not too long after he's in office that makes it legal to beat your wife. I mean, you can see it right there, plain as day. That's what he meant. I mean, look at the picture Nicole choose to use in the post. Do you need any further verification?
Beth @ 56:
You know, when you point this sort of stuff out it really takes the wind out of Nicolle's sails. Please try to avoid it.
Agreed, there's enough real stuff to criticize him about without a stretch like this. It wasn't a crack. He was just indicating that he thought it was an unfair question.
Nicole??????????
Ownership? Accountability? Hellllllooooooooo?
Seems that that Senator McCain is taking humor lessons from Alexendar Downer (former Australian Foriegn Affairs Minister).
When Downer was Opposition Leader during the mid-1990s, he delivered a speech parodying the various coalition policies (under the title "The Things That Matter") - when it came to the domestic violence policy Downer referred to it as "The Things That Batter". He lost the leadership of the Liberal Party (and the opposition) shortly thereafter.....
Robert @ 61:
God, how I wish I could have back the 10 seconds it took to read this post.
Baddog @ 5:
Amen. But then, this blog often adds misleading headlines.
It was an obvious, if stupid, reference to that ages-old journalistic question that has no answer.
Nicole, he's bad enough without embellishment.
He was simply answering a rhetorical trap in a unique way. I think McCain is a pile of urine, but this constant parsing of contemporaneous speech is just as bad.
Stacking the Supreme Court is a real issue and a real danger to an already embattled Constitution. That could easily have been the focus and the title of the article. Instead we are left with this nonsense and I am contributing to it by posting my silly comment!
You know, it restores a little bit of my faith in humanity to see so many commenters on here pointing out that this is a really poor post. The joke was obviously to point out the misleading and unfair nature of the question. I thought it was actually a fairly clever response.
It's so ridiculous to see people freaking out over this, and it furthers the stereotype of the idiot blog commenter who can manufacture outrage on a dime. Stupid posts and comments like you'll see here are the sort of thing that make liberals look like a bunch of whiny babies. If this outraged you, grow some thicker skin and pick up a basic book on politics. Your ignorance is showing.
Must agree as well. It was a very appropriate repsonse to the question. And im certainly no McCain suporter.. but I support fairness.
Grow up Nicole Belle. This is weak reactionary crap. If you were on the right you'd be after Kerry for insulting the troops.
And, sir, to be clear, as you are a straight-talker, are we voting for your record or for you? Neither from what I see.
ysbaddaden @ 33:
You answered your own question! Its the Supreme Court, Stupid. (Don't take the stupid literally.)
The thing that most people are missing here is that there is a very good chance that John McCain has beaten his wife. (At least his first wife, not too sure about the eye candy he hangs around with now.)
SeekTheTruth @ 63:
That's the trouble. McCain answered the unanswerable question, and botched the joke.
It's no big deal, but it reminds us of his pattern of sexism and misogyny. He dumped his crippled wife who stood by him when he was held prisoner. He dumped her for a beautiful young beer heiress, who he subsequently called a "trollop" and a "c*nt". He made a horrible sexist joke mocking Chelsea Clinton's looks, when she was still a teenager. When he was asked, about Hillary, "how do we beat the bitch", he said, "that's a good question."
McCain has a HUGE problem with women. This is just more evidence of that.
Steve @ 67:
And it wasn't an insult. It was a poor joke that had a lot of meaning and was easily jumped on by morons. Look at who is fighting. Do you see sons of lawyers, judges, doctors, politicians? Or, do you see many poor individuals who are lead to believe the government will take care of them if they fight to take care of us.
XuYu @ 70:
You don't joke about that sort of thing unless there is an element of truth. Notice his nervous snicker?
Is this whole: "Hilary supporters COULD go to McSame" just another MSM concoction?
Seriously: With what's at stake for your country and the world at large, are there actually people in America, who actually ARE involved in the political process, that are so childish and stupid as to throw their tantrum vote behind the Bush/Cheney party just to "get back" at Obama for winning?!
Really?
If so.
That's fekking
DE
PRESS
ING
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 51:
Amazingly enough, as old as it is, the famous loaded question to which McCain is clearly referring always implied that wife-beating was a heinous and cowardly act without any implication of female masochism at all.
Go Obama.
Nicole, please don't insult our intelligence with your intentionally obdurate reading of McCain's words. If our nation is going to improve, we have to rid ourselves of the Republican tactics, which you are employing. You might as well be swiftboating him, when you knowingly misrepresent his words. Any numbskull knows that "and I quit beating my wife last week" isn't humor but a rhetorical device trying to make the questioner look ridiculous. You don't seem to have any legitimate arguments against McCain, which is sad, because McCain is so entirely wrong about so many things. When you scrape the bottom of the barrel like this, you humiliate yourself and this blog, and drag those of us who want to defeat McCain in a high brow manner through the mud. You're the TMZ of politics with this post, classless and uninsightful. Your attempt to tie it into uniting the "women Hillary voters" behind Obama is also laughably ham fisted. Go back to the drawing board and come up with a less tawdry way to attack McCain, one of the most irrational Senators we would assume could be an easy target, but not so for you.
christ, the man cant even tell a joke right
he was supposed to quip
"why dont you ask me when i stopped beating my wife?"
he wasnt joking about beating his wife, but his brain is so addled that he doesnt know the words that are coming out of his mouth
woe is to us if he becomes prez
Just for the record, I am working to ensure that McCain loses to Obama. However, you gotta pick your battles. First of all, McCain wasn't "joking" about beating his wife. As many other posters here pointed out, he flubbed an allusion to the oft-cited example of a loaded question, "When did you stop beating your wife?" In fact, this is a perfectly appropriate place to use such an allusion, if you're a competent speaker, which McCain isn't. In any event, he deserves mild derision for his fail here, but despite the large amount of evidence of his misogyny (calling his wife a c*nt, for example), this particular episode isn't misogyny. Stop wasting time with trivialities like this and keep your powder dry for times when your criticism will actually carry weight. God what a waste of a post this was.
No fan of Mccain, but come on this is something Sean Hannity may find too silly to hold against a dem. This site is too good for this.
those of us who want to defeat McCain in a high brow manner
Ha! The sober words of a concern troll. Hit home runs or go home, bro. Here's the memo:
"Jokes about bombing Iran, jokes about beating his wife? The man is a clueless, tasteless, senile gaffe machine. He's also a coward and a traitor. And he hates America. And his nutjob followers worship him. And he'll do anything to get elected. Voting for McCain is just too dangerous. A vote for McCain is sending a message to terrorists that it's okay to attack us again. Want another 9-11? Then vote for McCain."
Keep swinging, Nicole. In fact, swing even harder.
I check this site often. I like the clips, usually, and your discussion is pretty fair. This isn't. McCain is comparing the fact that the questioner brought up his similarities to Bush with the unfair questioning cliche "When'd you stop beatin your wife." It's pretty obvious.
It's a joke about his similarities to Bush and nothing to do with domestic violence. Duh. Maybe you should think about posting a retraction or correction, hm?
Lame, C&L, very lame. I'm getting sick of coming here and seeing things like this. Intelligent criticism of McCain is one thing but this sort of crap is NO BETTER than suggestions from the Right that Obama is unpatriotic because he doesn't wear a flag lapel pin. Come to think of it, this attack is even lamer.
Oh for Christ's sake, the senator simply made a (albeit clumsy) play on the 'ol "are you still beating your wife?" bit.
No, I am not a McCain supporter (I've been a registered Dem for 16 years) but really, people.
Robert
BobbyG @ 20:
Why should he? He's not running for head of National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (www.ndvh.org).
The idea that a candidate needs "quip writers" is ridiculous. It is representative of an attitude that, In My Opinion, is divorced from reality, the reality where the people running for public office are human beings capable of humanness. It got use two presidents in the past 16 years who made every decision by focus group or based on political motives and not based on facts or conscience.
BTW, I don't support any candidate. Power does what it wants, as they say.
I can't believe McCain is making jokes about beating his wife. I am really shocked, I have to say. I hope an apology is forthcoming.
It is surprising, to say the least, to hear McCain making jokes about beating his wife. There are many women in this country, I'm sad to say, who would not find much humor in their own humiliating experiences of domestic violence. I think John McCain owes these brave women an apology.
Making light of physical brutality shows a very disturbing lack of judgment. Supporters of John McCain need to ask themselves if they support a policy of terrorizing women.
This recent remark of McCain's is very disturbing. I understand that he told a joke about beating his wife and I think most Americans will find this unacceptable. Most Americans remember George W. Bush making jokes about not finding WMDs in Iraq. The Republican party needs to understand that over 4,000 dead American troops and several hundred thousand innocent civilian dead is not a laughing matter, any more than is physically assaulting a woman. It is sad that John McCain would suggest this and I think he should have the opportunity to clarify his position.
When I spoke with John McCain he made no jokes about beating women, killing minorities, or assaulting children. So I am very surprised to read reliable news accounts of these recent remarks. I hope he acts quickly to clarify his meaning, because Americans will not elect a politician who endorses violence agains women.
This doesn't sound like the John McCain I know. I feel like I don't even know this person. It sounds like some right-wing radio hate-mongerer. The John McCain I know would never tell American men that it's acceptable to punch women in the mouth. That just doesn't sound right.
Some people have said that this is not a good time to be telling jokes about beating your wife. Well, the truth is there is never a good time to be telling such jokes. What John McCain said is simply unacceptable at any time, particularly during such an important election as this.
kablooie @ 10:
Exactly!!
It's clear that when John McCain laughingly suggested that it was okay to punch a woman in the face he meant it as a joke, a harmless reference to the ole political science chestnut about loaded questions. C'mon. He did not literally mean that it is okay to punch a woman in the face as hard as you can. Obviously, it was a joke. To suggest othewise is to play exactly the sort of old Washing dirty politics game that we need to change. I am confident, positive and absolutely certain that John McCain is not suggesting that it is okay to kick a woman in the mouth until all of her teeth are in her throat.
John McCain said recently that he has stopped beating his wife. I am glad to hear this but I was not aware that he ever was beating his wife. This is a suprising and disappointing development. I hope he tries to explain himself to the American people, a hardworking people who play by the rules and are decent enough to never beat their own wives. I look forward to McCain's apology for his statements.
This is an outrage. Shame on McCain for advocating violence against women.
If you think that the best way to stop terrorists is by calling your own wife vulgar names and beating her up, then you should vote for John McCain. But I think most Americans want a president that is not a violent drug addict or convicted felon.
I read recently that John McCain confessed to abusing his spouse. My thoughts and prayers are with the family during this difficult time and I hope they are able find healing somewhere in this terrible tragedy. I know people will show great sensitivity and judgment in not trying to turn this into a political football. Domestic violence is a plague and an addiction and any broken soul who asks for our help in recovery deserves our most civil support.
Alright, I'm done. But let me remind the panty-sniffing crybaby little lord fontleroys who want to win without getting dirty: you are moving against the Nazis, my friends. Find the nerve and the backbone needed to accomplish the task at hand. By any means necessary.
I just got a new bumper sticker:
"I'm voting McCain, 'cause I'm fucking insane!"
That's the spirit.
Diggy @ 9:
So it's just oki with you that McInsaine say that about your sister? Hmm? How bout your wife? or maybe even your Mother? I am sure she wouldn't mind at all would she?
Sexism is JUST as bad and insulting, offensive as racism is, and the fact that you think it's "No big deal" means it IS JUST AS BAD AS RACISM. As you can't recognize misogyny for what it IS. Women hating, women degrading. Of course not, you would rather use all the feminine degrading words for it instead. And say it's not misogyny right? Name me all the male oriented insult words vs. all the women insult words and you tell me how easy it is to get away with hating women. It's common every day language that we are constantly at battle with, and then you insult our intelligence by saying "it's No BIG DEAL"... You're "hysterical", "shrill", "Exaggerating your position." ANY argument that uses those words, is invalid, nil, counts for nothing. Women are humans, and deserve the respect you would give any male.
What does that mean exactly? What are you trying to say? Are you trying to excuse her "to do" over his words as professional "call out?" Thereby giving her some kind of "pass"???? WHO DOES THAT? Why can't she call out sexism when she sees it? What's wrong with it that you have to get all defensive over it as if you DID It?? Hmm?? Protest much? Make yourself look guilty is what you do. It's insulting, it's degrading and I take offense at it.
McCain would never beat his c*nt. He needs her money.
This article is the sort of BS non-issue that we're always criticising the Right for making a mountain out of. Deliberately misunderstanding the statement to get our collective knickers in a twist.
As others have said, he was obviously referring to the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" questions, which reporters can ask, but to which there is no easy yes/no answer.
It's pathetic.
We have enough to criticise McCain for, without inventing non-issues.
He didn't make a joke about wife-beating. And to have this ridiculous allegation on the front page makes us, and this website, look bad, pathetic, and ignorant. Yes ignorant. For not knowing the difference between a shorthand reference to a class of questions, and a genuine misogynistic joke about beating your wife.
^
How many points did that earn you?
Im not sure he was even joking.
I'm with John (102) and all the others who think this item (and its tonedeaf headline) are not worthy of this site.
We have plenty of legitimate issues to disagree with McCain about. This ain't one of them.
This tries to make something out nothing, and makes all of us look clueless.
{Deleted, Off Topic. SiteMonitor}
It's troubling that C&L posted this as a "wife-beating" reference, and that many commenters are piling on. As many commenters have said, McCain was referring to the age-old example of an inappropriately leading question that assumes an unfavorable fact, so that if you answer it, you tacitly admit the fact. It's not really a wife-beating reference.
I really think we have to be careful not to overreact to this sort of thing. After all, we like freedom of expression, don't we?
Be fair. I don't like McCain either, but that's an old lawyer joke, not a wife-beating joke, and you know it. It's a meaningful response to a question phrased so that any answer which accepts the premise will be the wrong answer. He's satirizing the reporter's question, and you're accepting the premise. So who's the fool here?
LwPhD @ 78:
What lawPhd said. This an idiotic post. Its exactly like something Malkin and crue would point out. It is clear to even me that McCain is comparing the questioning to the Catch 22 type question - damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Choose your battles more carefully. This was stupid.
This is a non-issue. He was reacting to a loaded question.
I think some are blowing this SLIGHTLY out of proportion...geeez people...I know I do it sometimes too, but this is a non story. Go after him for something tangible.
Another post about McCain and not his politic on C&L. This website has fallen to a new low in this election.
Nicole Belle, you gotta step it up, man. You are ruining a good site with these trash posts.
I agree it is not a good post. But Nicole has done some excellent pieces on this site and I agree with many of her opinions.
Wouldn't that be scary if you agreed with every post on any site? That sounds like something a narrow minded conservative authoritarian would expect.
I'm pretty sure that Cindy could beat the crap out of that decrepit old man.
Why was my post deleted?
{ It wasn't me. SiteMonitor}
Baddog @ 5:
Agreed.
We really need to be careful that we aren't looking as loony as the rabid right. I've seen a number of blog entries here that are every bit as suspect.
A reasonable person knows exactly what McCain was saying and even the wildest stretch of political correctness doesn't take this blog past the "There must be something about this that's bad" test.
ABC @ 107:
{Deleted, Off Topic. Please don't feed the trolls. SiteMonitor}
ABC @ 107:
{Deleted, Off Topic. Please don't feed the trolls. SiteMonitor}
Oh, come on... I hate McCain but choosing this is inane. That is in response to the 'trap' question. It is in reference to the tired example of lawyer cross-examination trickery:
"Answer yes or no... Have you stopped beating your wife."
Are you children? This attack is adolescent. Is there not enough that is damning about McCain being a poor choice for America that you have to resort to this???
Nicole Bell the headline exaggerator strikes again! Nicole, you really are a repeat offender in this category. McCain wasn't joking about beating his wife. He was joking about being asked a loaded question: "you are running from him like you are from the President?" The question contained a premise (McCain is running from the President) with which McCain didn't agree. McCain was likening this to the most famous loaded question of all time, "when did you stop beating your wife?" You see, the old joke contains a premise that the person being asked the question is in fact beating his wife. Get it? I can't believe I had to explain that to you, Sesame Street-style.
FYI, I agree with the premise that McCain is trying to run from the President but all his flip-flops currently make him McSame.
You might argue that McCain should know better than to say something like this, but I think the real outrage should be towards the people who take comments like this out of context and twist them around to mean something evil when they're not. I'm not saying that you're twisting his words, but your outrage should really be directed, not at McCain, but at the media: because you know that, if Obama had said this, the media would not have remained silent. Do you really want your local newspaper to run the headline "McCain: former wife beater?" I hope not. If a presidential candidate (or worse, a president) has to consider every single word carefully before saying it, then a) he loses time he might spend doing other things (like reading the FISA bill *cough Obama cough*), and b) we won't ever get to hear what he really thinks. This nitpicking has got to stop.
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the right approach when McCain says something like this is to commend the media for not blowing it out of proportion. Keep it as nonsarcastic as possible. Reward good behavior, while at the same time pointing out that the reverse behavior is not good. Maybe they'll get the message, and meanwhile we don't look so petty: because if an apolitical person read the post above, they would definitely get the impression that you wanted to see "McCain: former wife beater?" running in the CNN crawl, and come to the conclusion that Democratic bloggers are nuts.
[deleted--the commenting policy of remaining civil extends to our contributers as well.]
Yeah, speaking as someone who hopes to see Obama elected unanimously and celebrated as a conquering hero, file this one squarely under old-politics / faux-outrage.
I'd raise an eyebrow if he used the phrase while speaking to a battered-women's group, much like I cringed when Bush declared a "crusade" against Islamism, but in the abstract it's a well-established figure of speech with no connotations of misogyny.
I'm with the 'not a big deal' crowd. This post is hair-trigger liberalism at it's best. The headline is, indeed, misleading. I was misled. This is going to be a long, long, long campaign and I think we should all pick our battles judiciously. The reason why this accrues against the benefit of C&L is because it creates a cry/wolf effect: it erodes credibility. I no longer read AmericaBlog for this reason. (all said with love and support for C&L)
Johnny2Bad @ 29:
The fact that C&L did not see this as avoiding a loaded question should be embarrassing for them. It's a pretty stupid mistake.
Quite frankly, I don't care about this. His joke isn't about beating women, it's about the nature of the press and rumor campaigns.
Let's not make mountains out of molehills: there are still very many things that Mr. McCain has done that are worthy of our disdain. Making jokes is not one of them.
I agree completely with all of the 'hair trigger liberalism' posts. Let's not become the thing we're against, please.
...It isn’t a mysogynist [sic] joke. It’s a “you’re asking me a loaded question” joke.
I think it fair to say that there might have been any number of ways to have made the point it was a 'loaded question' without resorting to the image of wife-beating, which for those who have actually experienced it is not funny in the least. It's a relic of an older, darker and hopefully increasingly outdated time to which McCain still belongs, and should be tossed into the wastebin of cultural references.
When it has become not only outmoded but offensive to refer to racist analogies - imagine had the comment been about blacks or Irish or Jews - sniggering up one sleeve at the imagery of physical assault on women is the last bastion many women, including myself, have had to face all our lives.
Wife-beating is a serious issue. Hundreds of women are murdered every year by their partners. Thousands more are humiliated and brutalized, living in a constant state of fear. It's not a 'joke' that should be allowed to trivialize domestic violence as an analogy for something else. Especially by a man who has been known to call his own wife a 'trollop' and a 'c**t' in public, thus showing his true colours when it comes to his level of respect for women.
C&L has made no mistake on this one.
I love John Amato, but this is grossly unfair. McCain made no "wife beating joke."
"When did you stop beating your wife?" is our culture's paradigm for what constitutes an unfair question. That's because the answer requires acceptance of the premise that one has beaten one's wife. That wife beating is just about the worse thing a man can do is the whole point.
We can get Obama elected without sacrificing the integrity of our common language. And attacks like this say a lot more, and a lot worse, about us than they do about McCain.
Good Grief. I agree with those saying that Nicole got this one all wrong. And, nonny mouse, the question "When did you stop beating your wife?" is not a joke about wife beating by any means. As pointed out just above, it is an example of a question that suggests someone has done a heinous thing. The heinousness of wife beating is not a joke but rather important to the point being made. It does not make light of violence against women. Now, the fact that McCain called his wife a c**t in anger, that's worth noting, but has absolutely nothing to do with the comment that is the subject of this unfortunate, silly thread.
Having taught introduction to logic for a number of years, I have to say, I really love fallacies. And this is what's known as a "Complex Question." Regardless of how the person responds s/he is guilty. Look, I am no fan of McSame but this is actually a perfectly legitimate way to point out that the question is unfair.
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Am I on the Drudge Report? Michelle Malkin's blog? Only they would pull such a horrifying blame-the-victim argument. Where is the site I once loved?
They probably would have been slammed by the MSM and this site would have complained at how unfairly they were being treated. Just because they are treated unfairly doesn't give you carte blanche to do the same bullshit. HOLD YOURSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD!
COME ON! Why do you refuse to correct a glaring mistake? You look stupid to anyone who knows anything about debate or logical fallacies. I haven't been this embarrassed by someone on the left since the last time I talked to a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. This is just pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_many_questions#Types_of_complex_...
READ THAT AND CORRECT YOURSELF. You're embarrassing yourself, me, and the rest of the left.
Your update does not redeem this post. Just because a comment can be taken out of context doesn't mean it should be.
To take offense at his lame defensive quip is to distort his words. He weakly fended off a question he didn't want to answer, and that's all. If you want to attack something here, then attack him for dodging the question. Or attack the issue he is hiding from. Don't invent faults and then project them onto his words.
The "update" has made this even worse. Why not just say that the phrase was not familiar to you, you misunderstood and interpreted it a certain way given McCain's history, and then move on? The sorry attempts to spin and project are not worthy of the reality based community. We are all wrong often; it isn't a big deal.
Nony---The "wife beating" in the "joke" is obviously dishonorable and shameful, that is the aspect that makes it an example of unfair question. If anything, this phrase pre-supposes the unacceptable nature of "wife beating". This is not a hard one for anyone willing to think about it.
Sorry, but the update is more like a downdate. The comparisons with Michelle Malkin and ilk are a little unfair on the other side of it. In the meantime: Have you stopped stealing Steve Doocy's material? Answer yes or no! :)
I spent twenty minutes last night on a comment right here on this thread.
It was harsh but civil and the fact that the moderator chose to not accept it tells me all I need to know about him/her.
What a sniveling chicken-sh*t thing to do.
I have been with c and l since the get-go and I care about it.
Hey John, is this how it's going to be?
Good luck with your boy Obama...
Doesn't it suck that republicans can say they want without having it run all over the news, not even being questioned? Why the hell do they get away with anything and everything?!?
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