Watching it all fall apart at once
By Steve Benen Tuesday Jul 22, 2008 1:15pmMatt Yglesias had a very good item this week, noting the “debacle” for the Republican approach to foreign policy.
[McCain had] spent, several weeks with the main theme of his campaign being, quite literally, to criticize Barack Obama for not having been physically present in Iraq recently. This (of course) got Obama to go to Iraq, thus setting up a dilemma. Either Obama would survey the “progress” in Iraq and change his position, thus making him a flip-flopper, or else he would refuse to change his position, thus making him obstinate and out of touch with reality.
But instead of either of those things happening, Obama went to Iraq and Iraqi leaders said he’d been right all along! That’s about as close to “game, set, match” as you get in terms of real world events influencing your political campaign. What’s more, given the domestic situation and John McCain’s inability to talk about domestic issues persuasively, he can’t afford to play for a draw on Iraq.
Quite right. David Kurtz added how surprised he is to see “just how complete the Republican collapse on foreign policy has been in the short span of just a few weeks.” Kurtz noted that it’s “hard to think of any recent historical parallels.”
I’d just add that it goes beyond just Iraq. Over the last couple of months, the entire GOP foreign policy — the strategy, the worldview, the assumptions, the tactics — has crumbled to the point of destruction. The Bush administration bucked the McCain approach and adopted the Clinton policy to reach an accord with North Korea. McCain endorsed Obama’s policy on Afghanistan. Bush established the most direct diplomatic efforts with Iran since 1979. Just today, the administration sounded very Obama-esque in reaching out to Syria, which would have been unthinkable a year ago. Hell, the Bush administration is even distributing memoranda, telling officials to stop using language such as “jihadists,” “mujahedeen,” and “Islamo-fascism.”
And what’s left? To hear McCain tell it, the surge.
For McCain, that’s literally the only thing that matters anymore. In 2007, Bush and McCain decided it was wise to send thousands of additional troops into Iraq, in order to provide “breathing space” for political progress. Violence came down, Iraq became less unstable, but the political progress hasn’t materialized. To that, McCain effectively says, “Close enough.”
Now, I thought there was a general consensus among experts that the reduction in violence in Iraq can be connected to a variety of factors, including the surge, the “Awakening” in Anbar, the Sadr ceasefire, the completion of ethnic cleansing campaigns, and the fact that we’ve put a lot of the people who were shooting at us on the payroll. McCain sees a direct and unambiguous connection — more U.S. troops went in, Iraq got better — but that’s probably an overly simplistic take on what’s transpired.
But nevertheless, even if we accept McCain’s unsophisticated spin at face value, there’s just not much of an argument here. McCain, faced with the most important national security and foreign policy decision in a generation, got the war wrong. Indeed, he kept getting the war wrong, telling Americans we had to “stay the course” while the Bush/Rumsfeld policy was failing miserably. Now there’s a sovereign Iraqi government, and wouldn’t you know it, the prime minister thinks McCain is still wrong.
And the surge is supposed to be the saving grace? McCain got the big question wrong, and was half-right about a tactical decision after supporting a half-decade of failure? Please.
At this point, McCain has nothing to fall back on. His surrogates, desperate to find something, have fallen back to, “Oh yeah, we’ll he’s still inexperienced!”
It’s the wholesale collapse of the Republican foreign policy. Let’s see if voters notice.
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Yeah, and polling still shows Americans think McCain would be a better commander in chief than Obama. Go figure. The wanton iignorance of the american electorate knows no bounds.
McCain says Media loves Obama
Love is not the word i would use (they are hell bent on bringing him down)
However Obama does get more attention (good or bad) mostly bad as media spins, lies, smears and uses whatever right-wing propaganda to make non-issues "news"
McCain should be happy the MSM does not pay attention to him, if they did
McCain would have been out of the race along time a go
Gaffes can be made but the difference is
MSM is waiting for Obama to make a gaffe that will cost him the presidency
While McCain makes gaffes left, right and center. His supposed expertise in foreign affairs is also his biggest weakness for gaffs and misstatements (that's me being nice, honestly this guy is the biggest joke as an "expert")
By all means MSM please give McCain more attention
"how surprised he is to see “just how complete the Republican collapse on foreign policy has been in the short span of just a few weeks.”
how can anyone be surpised, after all it began to fall apart the first time invading Iraq passed over repube's lips. they were just better at selling their b.s. to the media and the world.
a good short read........iraqi's don't want" eternal slavery"
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/33483
"David Kurtz added how surprised he is to see “just how complete the Republican collapse on foreign policy has been in the short span of just a few weeks.”"
Really? I've been watching it ever since 9/11 made them all shit their pants in fear. The repubs (and the dems for that matter) haven't had a coherent foreign policy since Bush pulled out of the Kyoto treaty.
It disgusting to watch the MSM react to each bush/repub debacle as if its the FIRST incidence of incompetence or criminal behavior instead of just the latest in a long string.
They have the corporate/repiglican / media=mafia left to do his / their bidding ... to lie, deceive, and manipulate public perception at all costs on behalf of the corporations/profits themselves ...
Diebold and Sequoia already have the November '08 election results. John McCain is POTUS.
drshatterhand @ 1:
Just heard in on NPR the other day. They were interviewing some guy in Albuquerque and he said he liked McCain because he was pro-military.
And yet, didn't McCain vote against veterans benefits lately!?!?!?
The ignorance is stupefying. Maybe people are still in the Reagan mindset that Republicans are "strong" and Democrats are "weak". Of course, after seeing democrats in congress roll over time and time again, maybe they're right... :-X
After Sen. Obama returns from his trip, lets see how those polls about commander in chief work then.
As I understand it, no one with a cell phone is polled. If that's true it would seem to me that the majority of people who own land lines would be older people. The many younger people, who are so jazzed about the potential of Sen. Obama becoming president, may not even be being included in these polls.
I bet someone is making a sign for McCain that says, "Be careful what you wish for"
All his ads do is piss on Senator Obama. Screaming the surge worked isn't going to resonate with three quarters of the country. If it worked so well, they ask, why aren't our soldiers coming home by the planes full every day?
Most of the Fox audience and intractable Repugs are still like mushrooms. They like being in the dark and fed shit.
displaced @ 8:
that's what w.clarke was trying to expose...some people know zero about the issues (sometimes i can understand why) they just relate with mccain because of his past military experience that's all the need to say. this is why he constantly reminds us of his past military experience you know 40 yrs. ago....it's a free pass.....obama is not anti military...but he is also pro
diplomacy what a concept.....you poll certain demographics voting for mccain first thing out of their mouth military/pow after that crickets
Kinda like wearing a wool sweater to a moth ranch.
The networks are covering Obama's trip better than the cable channels so the masses are getting the message.
chicano2nd @ 10:
They're like fungai?
That sounds like the nick-name Jeff Gannon would use in a gay newspaper personal ad.
RIP islamo-fascism *sniff*
your inaccuracy, implied deception, and orwellian charm never had time to sprout wings, and was smothered in the crib.
The 21st-Century Republican Party has never had a foreign policy. Everything they have ever said or done about the rest of the world ha been an allegory for the domestic factional struggle.
displaced @ 8:
ya see, that is not a whooly inaccurate statement.
mccain is pro-military. as in pro-military-entertainment-industrial-wall street complex. he is pro-military imperialism. he is pro-military as first option in foreign policy.
now... as far as the soldiers/marines/airmen/etc are concerned... well, that is something altogether different.
pissed off patricia @ 9:
Rasmussen: 63% Say Trip Does Not Make Obama More Fit to be President
While Barack Obama has touted his travel to the Middle East and Europe this week as a “fact-finding” trip, 63% of Americans do not believe it makes the Democratic candidate any more qualified to be president.
A new Rasmussen Reports national survey, taken Monday night, also finds that less than a third (32%) think Obama will learn from his trip to Iraq. Forty percent (40%) say his mind is already made up about policies to deal with the war there. The Democrat has been accused by liberals in his party of softening his long-standing opposition to the war in Iraq in an effort to appeal to more moderate voters.....
In a separate survey this week, 45% said Obama is too inexperienced to be president. This number has risen from 41% over the past week.
Slightly more than half (53%) of Americans in the new poll do not approve of candidates making statements contrary to U.S. government policy while visiting U.S. troops in a war zone. Only 29% believe that it’s okay to do so.
Just who are these 29 per centers??? And what blogs do they hang out at?
Faced with an intelligent, graceful, confident young candidate in Obama, the GOP doesn't know how to react. They have been used to, for sooo long, bumbling, inept, chimpy puppets, that they just can't deal. Yes, many folks still adhere to the Reagan-era "Reps strong, Dems weak" meme on foreign policy, but times have changed. People are sick of our administration's militaristic shenanigans. Yeah, that appeals to some diehards, but folks are waking up ! Obama will win in a landslide this Nov., and the GOP knows it !!
dennis @ 18:
chicano2nd @ 10:
They have been for the last 66 years of MY LIFE.
Another Rasmussen Reports survey this week finds that while voters trust Obama more on most issues, McCain has a double-digit lead on his rival when it comes to national security and the war in Iraq. Overall, Obama and McCain remain very close in the popular vote contest as measured by the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.
what a surprise mcSurge is getting uptight
Heraldblog @ 20:
dennis @ 18:
Free market hack, Larry Kudlow lurves Rasmussen Reports
1* In a time of war, is it appropriate for a presidential candidate to make a highly-publicized trip to a war zone?
49% Yes
26% No
25% Not sure
2* While visiting with U.S. troops in a war zone, is it okay for candidates to make political statements contrary to the U.S. government’s policy?
29% Yes
53% No
18% Not sure
3* Will Barack Obama learn from his trip to Iraq and refine his plans based upon what he learns or did he make up his mind before traveling to Iraq?
32% Learn from his trip
40% He made up his mind before traveling
28% Not sure
4* Does Obama’s trip to Afghanistan and Iraq makes him more qualified to be president?
23% Yes
63% No
14% Not sure
5* Is a president with military experience better able to decide how the United States conducts a war?
47% Yes
38% No
15% Not sure
NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence
Problem with this survey is that they keep referring to 'War.' It's not a war, it's an occupation that followed an unprovoked invasion.
What were the parameters for the people answering?
How old were they?
What was their party affiliation?
Did they need to have some college?
A rudimentary knowledge of politics and the contestants in the presidential race?
What was the gender of the respondents? their income?
Number of family members presently serving in the armed forces? In combat zones?
Number of family members previously serving in the armed forces? In combat zones?
How do the respondents explain they know what Senator Obama thinks?
Shitty poll. About as good as an online poll.
miss_kitty @ 24:
Polls are manipulated by demographics and as in this one, the framing of the questions.
About Obama's inexperience: George Bush didn't have any experience in foreign policy when he took office and look how things turned ou. . . er, never mind.
Just now on MSNBC I heard a McCain surrogate (Pfotenhauer?) say that McCain was responsible for getting Rumsfeld kicked out of office. Really?
Ol' John must have his Depends in a bunch about now
Ron @ 25:
exactly.....this poll makes me think of the color"red"
then it's used to rationalize agenda/opinion...listen to the guy that represents the poll when he is on a live tv
broadcast..."red".......this is used to manipulate the sheep....i mean the people
Ron @ 25:
That's always the response when someone doesn't like the poll results.
dennis @ 18:
It's a statistical mystery then why most of the polls i see have McCain getting less then 45%. Well if a couple percent go with a third party i suppose it's possible. Did this survey also have a # for those saying McCain was too confused/stupid/senile to be president?
constituent @ 22:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/icon.html
Obama 292 McGrampa 219
Doesn't the crumbling of the Republican Party remind you of the final days of the Soviet Union, when the curtain was pulled back, and all we saw was a crumbled infrastructure for what was once the communist party?
dennis @ 30:
Look at the way the questions are framed princess.
Ron @ 34:
ask him to remove the rose colored glasses first
Samson- @ 17:
Sadly the ignorant fool I heard on NPR was thinking that McCain supported the latter concept.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/icon.html
President: Obama 292 McCain 219
Senate: Dem 57 GOP 43
House: Dem 239 GOP 196
Poor princess..... *sniff*
Erasmus Wembley @ 26:
True, but Obama probably has double the IQ of the Shrub.
drshatterhand @ 1:
I don't get this - We have daily senior moments bordering on a 'Makaca Event' - and the old guy is still around. Maybe the new media is pushing to be VP.
dothehop @ 37:
mccain lost in that one
Erasmus Wembley @ 26:
McGrampa's foreign policy experience consists of surrendering to the enemy and signing anti-American documents as a POW. Stunning...
Once again, with feeling:
"I've known "McCain" for years. And I've been operating under the assumption that the reason "the Senator" devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it. Well, I was wrong. John's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. John's problem is that he can't sell it!
We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you John McCain is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things, and two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections."
True, so True!
Judging from some of the comments on C-Span this morning, they aren't noticing or they just don't care. Its the same shit on a different day - screaming media bias, and that Obama can't be trusted - he's a terrorist, etc....At this point, McCain's going to get the 30%ers and probably 40% of the Indy vote, but Obama's going to take the College and it will be a landslide in the popular vote. All the talk of the PUMAs is garbage, most of them will come around, and the ones that don't can go pound sand....Meanwhile, Barr and Paul will siphon off a couple percentage in some non-key states, but will not do anything else.
Based on my gut, McCain will pick Jindel (sp?) for his VP and the shift to the right will be complete....All Obama has to do is NOT fuck up over the next 100 days and its his. Any "attack" in October will most likely hurt McCain anyway as he would show once and for all that Bushco can't keep us safe.
displaced @ 37:
sad indeed
60 percent of Americans agree with Obama and want a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq.
"If we had done as Senator Obama wanted ... " says Magoo repeatedly. Well, for starters, we wouldn't be wasting lives and material in this hideous diversion in the first place. Can you with those other factors mentioned, like bribing Sunnis and stuffing three more brigades into Baghdad and accepting the Mahdi ploy of standing down until the US leaves, quiet this one precinct at the expense of all others?
I'm really disgusted that the cable news channels all seem to accept their fate as purveyors of the most simpleminded slogans, now down to one word. Surge. Anything more complex is just out of reach of their audience.
[Deleted. Do not post in ALL CAPS. Feel free to repost your message using sentence case-Sitemonitor]
Concern: is there enough popcorn to go 'round for the next 6 months?
44 webslinger Says
"Damn it, Mary-Jane, I'm out of Spidey-fluid!!!"
New Viagra commercial.
25 Ron
The biggest framer of polls right now is they're based on the dwindling use of traditional land-lines, because they can't get the computer lists needed for mass calling for the exponentially increasing number of non-traditional cell-phone users.
let me check again with CBS and Couric.
I'll get back to you on that in a few.......................YEARS!
Ron @ 25:
rasmussen is the poll they quote when they want to mislead.
his polling audience is skewed, as are his questions.
he's typically off by 10-13% from other polls so
rasmussen polls are bullshit.
BaScOmBe hearts Lara Logan and Rachel Maddow @ 53:
Thanks for the backup. I never really heard of them, but I've been polled enough (as in 'asked questions by pollsters'-I have a landline) to know they are weasels.
This is great and all. We can give each other all the high fives or do all the endzone dances we care to, but where is the conversation about why we are really in Iraq? (Hint: $4 per gallon gas) Sure, have a field day with McCain - he and everyone in his party deserve it. While we're all having fun, where's the solution to the energy situation?
Friend, I worry we are closer to the inauguration of the GULAG than the end...
Before everyone falls all over themselves at the timing of the Bush reversal on Iran, isn't it possible that this is just a charade to provide cover to Bush for an attack on Iran later this year? Doesn't he need to at least claim to the international community that he "tried diplomacy with Iran and it didn't work" before attacking Iran? Isn't that what Bush did and said regarding Iraq before invading there?
The trouble with Bush's "fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants" diplomacy over the last eight years is that the emperor had no clothes. Having no seat in your pants means you have no policy, and your lies (and your dumb ass) are exposed for what they are.
dennis @ 30:
STFU
Bush is simply trying to save the tattered remains of his "legacy" by flip-flopping and reaching out to Syria, Iran, and N. Korea.
"Over the last couple of months, the entire GOP foreign policy — the strategy, the worldview, the assumptions, the tactics — has crumbled to the point of destruction."
That's because it was built on lies, manipulation and deception.
Now with a Democrat majority in Congress, they can stop a war with Iran - well in theory can't they?
Lots of talk about polls today. I didn't see these mentioned:
Gallup General Election Trial Heat, daily tracking, ending 7/2/08: Obama 46%, McCain 42%
NBC News/Wall St. Journal, public preference for political party of the next president: Democrat 48%, Republican 36%
- Same poll, with specific candidates: Obama 48%, McCain 35%, Nader 5%, Barr 2%, undecided 10%
And so on...
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