HEY !.. frist :)

Golly wonder what bush has done to ours.

Sometimes I wonder if these people really believe the crap that comes out of their mouths. It's like watching a whole gang of sociopaths.

Who told Georgia to move in South Ossetia? Did they think Russia wouldn't be interested in how their ethnic brothers were being abused by a pipsqueak? If you're going to poke a bear with a burnt stick, you'd better have an out when he awakes.

RUSTY BLACK KEETLE CALLS POT BLACK hahahahahaha

Well, what does Condi Rice expect? Russia saw a window of opportunity (even if, as it is said, Georgia actually instigated the conflict in first place) and exploited it knowing full well that the U.S. and Europe could not respond in any meaning full manner.  The Bush Administration and its Neocon supporters have set the U.S. up to be blindsided by virtually everyone. With all or most U.S. forces committed to the Middle East it was only a matter of time before someone took advantage of it.

Condi Rice says Russia has hurt their international reputation

Talk about the pot calling the kettle...

Let's face it, Condi and Bush did the right thing here facing the Russian aggression. As to how it started, is there any question Georgia was provoked and fell into a trap laid by Russia which had 600 plus tanks lined up and ready to go. So Georgia made a mistake, so did the Russians who found, unexpectedly, universal European and American condemnation of its extended aggression except among the far left. But to believe that the Georgian forces were attacking Russian citizens, really people of Ossetia who were recently granted Russian passports, is a typical knee jerk response to anything that comes out of Russia, like in the old pre-91 days when all Soviet, propaganda was lapped up and considered absolute truth.

I would suggest that perhaps there was little on the "background . . . .that fueled Russia's anger" because the Russian actions were so out of proportion with the reality on the ground that what occasioned the dispute is really a non-issue. Of course what Amato wants to do is just be a universal critique of the Bush Administration, of which I am no fan, without recognizing that sometimes, even inadvertently, it makes the correct moves. This was on for the Bushes, sad to say.

Tell condi to go suck an oil tanker.....
here we go again...fucking OIL business. Georgia hosts the largest oil pipeline from the Caspian to Europe. Roughly 1/3 of European oil comes from Russia. Neocon fairies have been stoking Georgian Prez Saakashvili for months about how nice it would be to finally integrate those nasty russian enclaves by bombing the shit out of the. Don't worry US military will protect you and John McBush would personally kick Putin in the mouth! King George so enjoys the horror and bloodshed of war.....

Read what Pat Buchanan has to say on the subject, he makes more sense than most on the subject.

BBC broadcast 6th of Aug., guess it got drowned in the pre-Olympics build up...

I wonder, does any of your msm now clarify that it was Georgia that fired first...or do they still hold on to the notion that it's only a victim to a big, brutal (which it surely is) and unprovoked Russian invader?

Our msm got it wrong too, but corrected the mistake within a day or two.

Condi of course is an expert in Sovietology and saw all this coming a long time ago. Nope, nosiree bob, this administration wasn't taken by surprise here, not in the least.

Repeat after me: NOBODY COULD HAVE FORSEEN THE OVERTOPPING OF THE GEORGIAN BORDERS.

I think the saddest thing of all in this whole mess is watching Bush and Condi and the rest bloviating away as if anybody in the rest of the world actually gives a shit what we as a nation think about this. Let's face it, Junior and his gang have made us utterly irrelevant in the world.

This is sure bumping McCain in the polls.

Hmm.

Isn't it funny how the REPUKES have gotten their panties in such a twist about Russian aggression? Saying the Russians have damaged their reputation and all... but none of them ever considered that thought when we attacked a sovereign nation for no good reason...

The Russians are bullies, AND we are what? I GUESS JUST OUT THERE spreading democracy where no one wants it spread?

HYPOCRITES and LIARS... that is all you get when you elect Republican trash.

The Corporate Media is towing the McCain line.

Evil Russia attacked poor little DEMOCRATIC Georgia.

*sniffle* *sniffle*

Leaving out ALL the facts.

The only question in my mind is whether Saakashvili was setup by the Neocons, knowing his attack of Tskhinvali would lead to his defeat, so the Neocons could capitalize on it.

Or whether the loose cannon that he is Saakashvili stupidly believed Neocon rhetoric (and this is equally likely) and attacked the South Ossetians.

Either way, he was set up by the Neocons.

You knew the spin machine with the help of the MSM would go full tilt making Russia appear the bad guy here when in fact the opposite is true. It was the Georgian president that sent his troops into South Osetia and then the Russians responded. But as many would say, the first casualty of war is the truth. There's a great write up on what actually happen that can be found at www.stratfor.com. The grand daddy of intelligence sites. Maybe someone should tell the MSM where they can get the truth.
There is also another twist to this matter that none of the news services are talking about and as usual it always comes down to money. A certain 30 billion owed to Putin plus interest and he has informed the boy king that he has until tomorrow to get the funds into his account or he will own Georgia as well as the Baku oil and gas pipeline. You can read that part of the story here....www.worldreports.org One other point brought out in this matter is that both Bush 1 and Clinton receive $1 off every barrel of oil that flows through the Baku pipeline. Must be nice for these two collecting royalties from a pipeline that the American tax payer built to bring oil out of the Caspian and into turkey. I wonder how many more parasites get a piece of the action?

PUTIN: PAY ME BY MONDAY OR I OWN THE PIPELINE + GEORGIA
RUSSIAN LEADER DEMANDING $87 BILLION ( = $30B + COMPOUND INTEREST)
Saturday 16 August 2008 18:59
REAGAN-MITTERRAND PROTOCOLS PAYMENTS ARE BOUND UP WITH THE SETTLEMENTS

IT TAKES 'ONE OF THEIR OWN' TO SHAKE THE U.S. CRIMINALISTS OUT OF THEIR MADNESS.
London, 16th August 2008:

GRU PRIME MINISTER DEMANDS IMMEDIATE PAYMENT OF $87 BILLION
Russian GRU-Prime Minister Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has DEMANDED that his grossly overdue payment of $30 billion under the Reagan-Mitterrand Protocols MUST be paid, WITH COMPOUND INTEREST, and IN THE BANK BY MONDAY, 18TH AUGUST, or he owns the pipeline and Georgia.

With compound interest, the sum of money outstanding and payable to Putin is $87 BILLION, which is the sum he requires to be in the bank BY MONDAY.

FAILING PAYMENT OF $87 BILLION BY MONDAY, RUSSIA WILL SEIZE THE GEORGIAN PORTION OF THE PIPELINE AND WILL TAKE THE WHOLE OF GEORGIA, WHATEVER RICE AND BUSH SAY.....con't

GuyCybershy @ 19:

Read what Pat Buchanan has to say on the subject, he makes more sense than most on the subject.

GuyCybershy @ 22:

http://buchanan.org/blog/2008/08/pjb-blowback-from-bear-baiting/

Thanks!

PJB: Blowback from Bear Baiting
posted by Linda
By Patrick Buchanan

Mikheil Saakashvili’s decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia’s invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser’s decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

Nasser’s blunder cost him the Sinai in the Six-Day War. Saakashvili’s blunder probably means permanent loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
...

.

From Thursday, 08/14/08
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&It...

Israeli and U.S. forces have assisted in training the Georgian troops.
This incursion into Ossetia was about exercising control of the OIL pipelines through the region.

Oh, but wait!
Karl Rove's ABSCOND... er vacation to Europe was to meet WITH members of the Session of the 5th annual summit of Yalta European Strategy on that Saturday morning.
http://www.yes-ukraine.org/en/Press_Centre.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&i...

Now, go figure...

.

llyonnoc @ 15:

Let's face it, Condi and Bush did the right thing here facing the Russian aggression. As to how it started, is there any question Georgia was provoked and fell into a trap laid by Russia which had 600 plus tanks lined up and ready to go. So Georgia made a mistake, so did the Russians who found, unexpectedly, universal European and American condemnation of its extended aggression except among the far left. But to believe that the Georgian forces were attacking Russian citizens, really people of Ossetia who were recently granted Russian passports, is a typical knee jerk response to anything that comes out of Russia, like in the old pre-91 days when all Soviet, propaganda was lapped up and considered absolute truth.

I would suggest that perhaps there was little on the "background . . . .that fueled Russia's anger" because the Russian actions were so out of proportion with the reality on the ground that what occasioned the dispute is really a non-issue. Of course what Amato wants to do is just be a universal critique of the Bush Administration, of which I am no fan, without recognizing that sometimes, even inadvertently, it makes the correct moves. This was on for the Bushes, sad to say.

yes, there is a question that georgia was provoked by russia... you have this ass-backwards... georgia was provoked by the neo-cons in the u.s, and russia responded rapidly... and you think russian action was heavy handed? how about shock and awe...

Darth_Romney @ 32:

Russia has no balls! Otherwise, Putin would've said to Bush and Rice, "Tell you what...we'll leave Georgia when you assholes finally pull out of Iraq! Otherwise, you're in no position to lecture to us!"

I guess Putin's either sackless or a very shrewd politician...either way, nobody should let the Chimperor Bucj lecture them. Hugo Chavez seems to be the only one with balls to stand up to Bush!

Just last night Russian Minister of Defense was saying the withdrawal of Russian troops would not follow any specific timetable but would depend on securityu conditions on the ground.

Dumbya's kept Whore looks pretty ragged from her trip to entertain the men.

Go buy some shoes already. I wonder how it appears to the world when our secretary of state was buying shoes while thousands were senselessly slaughtered?

I swear, anymore when Condi talks, all I hear is noise.

Dr Acula @ 46:

Why isn't that c*nt in jail along with her boyfriend and the other criminals?

Pelosi.

Darth_Romney @ 32:

Russia has no balls! Otherwise, Putin would've said to Bush and Rice, "Tell you what...we'll leave Georgia when you assholes finally pull out of Iraq! Otherwise, you're in no position to lecture to us!"

I guess Putin's either sackless or a very shrewd politician...either way, nobody should let the Chimperor Bucj lecture them. Hugo Chavez seems to be the only one with balls to stand up to Bush!

Lets not be to hasty. Russia said it will pull out of Georgia, as in Georgia proper. However, in their eyes South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the two break away republics are not considered part of Georgia proper. The Russians will pull back from Gori and other Georgian terroritory but I doubt they will from those two republics.

McCain says this is like the worst international happening in like forever, yet it wasn't awful enough to make bush cut his trip to the Olympics short. You would think if McCain is right bush would have flown home immediately.

Actually Germany is buying it. THe german chancellor is now strongly advocating NATO membership for Georgia and suggested that NATO can help rebuild their military.

Ukraine is also buying it, theyve proposed expanding the US anti-missile radars to their territory. They will likely get a NATO fast-track as well. By 2017, when the russian naval lease at Sevastopol expires, you might find it becoming a NATO base.

Georgia was silly to fight for land that Russia was taking anyway but Russia has since made many media blunders, probably as everyone expected they would.

MountainMan23 @ 52:

Neither Germany nor Italy are buying the American heavily-editted version of events.

They did not buy into WMDs either.

barkin @ 37:

llyonnoc @ 15:

Let's face it, Condi and Bush did the right thing here facing the Russian aggression. As to how it started, is there any question Georgia was provoked and fell into a trap laid by Russia which had 600 plus tanks lined up and ready to go. So Georgia made a mistake, so did the Russians who found, unexpectedly, universal European and American condemnation of its extended aggression except among the far left. But to believe that the Georgian forces were attacking Russian citizens, really people of Ossetia who were recently granted Russian passports, is a typical knee jerk response to anything that comes out of Russia, like in the old pre-91 days when all Soviet, propaganda was lapped up and considered absolute truth.

I would suggest that perhaps there was little on the "background . . . .that fueled Russia's anger" because the Russian actions were so out of proportion with the reality on the ground that what occasioned the dispute is really a non-issue. Of course what Amato wants to do is just be a universal critique of the Bush Administration, of which I am no fan, without recognizing that sometimes, even inadvertently, it makes the correct moves. This was on for the Bushes, sad to say.

yes, there is a question that georgia was provoked by russia... you have this ass-backwards... georgia was provoked by the neo-cons in the u.s, and russia responded rapidly... and you think russian action was heavy handed? how about shock and awe...

Russian agression?!?!? You have to be kidding. The ex CIA guys that write for Stratfor.com know the truth and the thruth is that the US already had over 2,000 intelligence personel on the ground in Georgia and there were over 1,000 Isralie Mossad there as well. Something smells with all of this and as usual when the US begins to meddle in the affairs of other soverign nations, you know a war is just around the corner. The only reason we are there is because of the oil that is pumped out of the Caspian through the Baku pipeline that crosses into Georgia on its way to Turkey a NATO and US strong hold. But just in case you haven't noticed, terrorist bombings have now picked up over the last six months in Turkey and no doubt this will be the next hot spot.
The bottom line to all of this is that this action as many around the world are, are all about money. In this case, the money that both politicians as well as oil companies are going to make in selling this commodity. How about rather than starting more wars over a commoditty like oil which is killing the planet anyway, we pump some of these oil profits into finding new alternative fuels that don't require pipelines criss crossing through unstable parts of the world. A true Neo-con nightmare just thinking about alternative fuels, but the faster we get off fossil fuels, the sooner the world will be at peace.

Joe O. @ 49:

Darth_Romney @ 32:

Russia has no balls! Otherwise, Putin would've said to Bush and Rice, "Tell you what...we'll leave Georgia when you assholes finally pull out of Iraq! Otherwise, you're in no position to lecture to us!"

I guess Putin's either sackless or a very shrewd politician...either way, nobody should let the Chimperor Bucj lecture them. Hugo Chavez seems to be the only one with balls to stand up to Bush!

Lets not be to hasty. Russia said it will pull out of Georgia, as in Georgia proper. However, in their eyes South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the two break away republics are not considered part of Georgia proper. The Russians will pull back from Gori and other Georgian terroritory but I doubt they will from those two republics.

Ahh, but Joe,
Don't forget that that gaped tooth white house troll says Georgia proper includes the breakaway provinces of Georgia. To her, S. Ossitia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia and until Russian forces completely withdraw from the region, the White House will not be satisfied.

Hey, has anyone seen the Joe Biden is going to pay a visit to Georgia in an attempt of one-upsmanship to the GOP's envoys to Georgia? Anyone think that the Dems see this incident any differently?

What's an opposition Party?

.

Otay @ 60:

I like the video of Shepphard Smith from Faux interviewing two Americans visiting South Ossetia. Apparently Faux thought they were just run-of-the-mill Georgians, and thus they would condemn Russia.

The two started thanking Russia for saving their lives and transporting them back home, during which you could hear Faux producers and Smith trying to figure out how to stop the conversation, so they immediately went into a commercial. And when they came back, they gave the two 30 seconds before the end of the show.

Guess there is only one politically-correct side to this story.

"I know we just came back from a commercial but we're being signaled for another commercial... and then when we come back we'll let you finish your point."

"O.K. We're back. You have 30 seconds until the end of this segment..."

"Oops, sorry, gotta go."

Many europeans countries agree with the US on this one. It's only the extreme left who wants to side with the Russians. Which reminds me of the conservatives under Clinton. They tended to be skeptical of anything Bill did and by the end of the 90s Bush ran on a semi-isolationist platform just for the sake of not being Bill.

There is rational dislike for Bush and then there is tinfoil hat land. As there was for Clinton.

"...that reputation is frankly in tatters and so, that in itself is a significant consequence…"

Project much?

bubba @ 63:

Many europeans countries agree with the US on this one. It's only the extreme left who wants to side with the Russians. Which reminds me of the conservatives under Clinton. They tended to be skeptical of anything Bill did and by the end of the 90s Bush ran on a semi-isolationist platform just for the sake of not being Bill.

There is rational dislike for Bush and then there is tinfoil hat land. As there was for Clinton.

Cindasleazy Rice was in Georgia on July 10. Georgia was set up. Do you remember how there were those in the Iraqi military and intelligence who said Bush's dad said it was okay for Iraq to invade Kuwait?

These fuckers are still playing chess with countries on the other side of the world.

You think this might have something to do with a pipeline from the Caspian Sea?

You think that ten years from now there might be some blowback?

bubba @ 63:

Many europeans countries agree with the US on this one. It's only the extreme left who wants to side with the Russians. Which reminds me of the conservatives under Clinton. They tended to be skeptical of anything Bill did and by the end of the 90s Bush ran on a semi-isolationist platform just for the sake of not being Bill.

There is rational dislike for Bush and then there is tinfoil hat land. As there was for Clinton.

Who are you trying to kid? If you read the BBC News blog that has a much, much, much larger geograghical participant base than C&L does, you'd understand the defence that is pouring in in Russia's favour. And yes, in each opinion there is also disdain for the USA and Isreal. So enough of your typical right-wing or O'reilly/Limbaugh-type bullshit.

Hugin @ 21, thanks for that video link. I'll be passing that one on!

Look impeachment proceedings and have certain of state secrets,
International war crimes proceeding's do not offer those protections,

Why tie the hands when you get a slam dunk.

Billy @ 8:

Want to know what really happened?

It's all right here:

Georgia On My Mind

A tremendous read indeed! There was this one line that stands out more than anything and the more knowledgable people have commented on it a lot....it's the dualality of Usa & Israel in this. Where the world gets really curious and then (with more understanding) pissed off, is when they look at this very small piece of land that has the world's 3rd largest military/nuclear power and wonder....where in God's name does all the wealth come from to fund this military might?
3 letters and you know what they are.

Dennis,

WTF?

This is nothing but scripted nonsense. The entire Georgia/Russia conflict is contrived. And we're about to find out why.

Darth_Romney @ 32:

Russia has no balls! Otherwise, Putin would've said to Bush and Rice, "Tell you what...we'll leave Georgia when you assholes finally pull out of Iraq! Otherwise, you're in no position to lecture to us!"

I guess Putin's either sackless or a very shrewd politician...either way, nobody should let the Chimperor Bucj lecture them. Hugo Chavez seems to be the only one with balls to stand up to Bush!

Naw...

you just ain't been payin' attention. More than just the Venzuelan would-be Brezhnev have stood up to Bush.

When Israel sends bomb after bomb into civilian areas, this site is replete with those condemning Israel. However, after reading many of the comments in this thread, I have not seen one suggesting that Russia was too aggressive with their response. Russia's response did hurt their international reputation, but Condi Rice saying that is actually beyond ironic, it is pathetic.

Billy @ 8:

Want to know what really happened?

It's all right here:

Georgia On My Mind

And here's one for you. What terrific insight Eric Margolis provides.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2008/08/17/64765...

Terrible @ 71:

Hugin @ 21, thanks for that video link. I'll be passing that one on!

Just additional proof that this entire ordeal is a staged and counterfeit event. I wonder if the US and Russia did not orchestrate the whole thing to provide additional events for the CFR to fear monger the entire globe this time, not just OUR country.

This is plain and simply the next chapter in the War on Terra.

bubba @ 53:

Actually Germany is buying it. THe german chancellor is now strongly advocating NATO membership for Georgia and suggested that NATO can help rebuild their military.

Ukraine is also buying it, theyve proposed expanding the US anti-missile radars to their territory. They will likely get a NATO fast-track as well. By 2017, when the russian naval lease at Sevastopol expires, you might find it becoming a NATO base.

Georgia was silly to fight for land that Russia was taking anyway but Russia has since made many media blunders, probably as everyone expected they would.

Sadly you´re right. I could only find an article about Merkel´s statement in English at the Al Yazeera website. This is what Merkel said in Georgia (I´ve checked it in German media before):

Georgia 'to keep breakaway regions'

The Georgian president has said his country will not give up the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Mikheil Saakashvili said on Sunday that Georgia will never give up a single square kilometre of the country's territory.

He spoke at a news conference with Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, after they met in the capital, Tbilisi.
For her part, Merkel said Russia should withdraw immediately and that Georgia was still welcome to join Nato.

Merkel said she expected a "very fast, very prompt" withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgia, calling it an "urgent matter".
"Georgia will become a member of Nato if it wants to - and it does want to," Merkel said.

Support

It was one of the strongest statements yet of support for Georgia's Nato membership bid, which is opposed by Russia.
Russian troops remain deployed in the north and west of the country, including units within half an hour's drive of Tbilisi.

Russia says that regular forces will begin withdrawing on Monday, but that an unspecified number of Russian peacekeepers will remain.

Moscow is opposed to Georgia's attempt to join Nato. The Western military alliance is divided over how fast to accept Georgia, but has indicated that membership is a matter of when, not if.

Al Jazeera’s Jonah Hull said that the significance of Merkel's statement for Russia and Kremlin will be enormous.

"This is precisely what they were hoping to derail. They do not want Nato to encroach any further towards the Russian borders.

Nato in Georgia is precisely what Russia does not want and this might be the only way that the West can find now to punish Russia."
...

read on:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/2008817111420784486.html

Let me make one thing clear here: Merkel is not the "brilliant German leader" as even here at C&L some commenters wrote earlier. She´s just another Bush lapdog and if she were our chancellor in 2003, Germany would be involved in war crimes in Iraq as well by now.
Merkel is not speaking for the majority of Germans here and definitely not for me!

cherwasrightbushisdum @ 9:

RUSTY BLACK KEETLE [and so called 'pot expert'] CALLS POT BLACK [after disastrous international political embarassment] hahahahahaha

after POT steals SPOON from KETTLE and laughs loudly in POT's face.

just helping out a tad.

oncall @ 83:

When Israel sends bomb after bomb into civilian areas, this site is replete with those condemning Israel. However, after reading many of the comments in this thread, I have not seen one suggesting that Russia was too aggressive with their response. Russia's response did hurt their international reputation, but Condi Rice saying that is actually beyond ironic, it is pathetic.

What are the numbers?

This is from Human Rights Watch. Russia attacked civilian areas, but so did Georgia.

The US has always used as a policy "overwhelming force" in order to shorten wars and limit casualties. Why should Russia be held to a different standard?

The Israeli bombardment of Lebanon lasted 35 days. This entire conflict lasted less than 10.

angryspittle @ 85:

Was America too aggressive against Iraq?

or afghanistan?

oncall @ 83:

When Israel sends bomb after bomb into civilian areas, this site is replete with those condemning Israel. However, after reading many of the comments in this thread, I have not seen one suggesting that Russia was too aggressive with their response. Russia's response did hurt their international reputation, but Condi Rice saying that is actually beyond ironic, it is pathetic.

you obviously havn't been looking too hard.

If any of the perceived observations are deliberately encouraged by the county of origin then one would assume that the (either positive or negative) objective was achieved.

Russia and NATO’s relationship exactly what is the perception and does that present observation achieve the intended goal?

Russia’s relationship with Baltic States and Poland – is it truly what Russia wants to be recognized for internationally and what exactly was achieved?

If this whole situation has anything to do with the area’s oil pipelines then the logical question would be in the best interest of all parties concerned to pursue that particular energy source in the future considering the tension that it is already being observed?

Case in point, the polar ice caps are melting and it is widely held at a potential bonanza regarding future oil supplies. The race is on regarding who will own what in the region.

Imagine the very thing that is heralding global disaster and countries fighting over that too. That would be like rats fighting each other in a sinking ship.

Tragic, isn’t it?

Tyler Durden @ 95:

Old Billy Hussein @ 76:

bubba @ 66:

Pat Buchanan has always been an isolationist. He doesnt think we should have gotten involved in world war II. heh. Let alone playing around with cold war maneuvering.

He probably thinks the moon landing was over-reach.

He's an anti-semite too, which could explain his parallel to the Israeli-Lebanon war. But the facts are the facts: Georgia invaded and shelled South Ossetia. If we could get actual numbers, I'd bet that there were more people killed by the indiscriminate shelling of Tskhinvali than in the Russian bombing of Tbilisi.

Don't get me wrong, I have no delusions that Russia's interests are all hearts and puppy dogs, but where is our interest here?

Oil and pipelines.

BINGO!

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 101:

harley @ 97:

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 94:

angryspittle @ 85: or afghanistan?

Shock and awe, technically known as rapid dominance, is a military doctrine based on the use of overwhelming power, dominant battlefield awareness, dominant maneuvers, and spectacular displays of force to paralyze an adversary's perception of the battlefield and destroy its will to fight.

DUH?

These are the same people that said Russia is too aggressive. The ones that pumped their arms and pounded their chest about shock and awe.

Georgia, backed by the US and Israel, ATTACKED and killed Russian peacekeepers on Aug 8th.

They started this entire situation.

The US media is the only media in the world reporting lies, and once Russia releases the 700 American made M-16's they captured, as well as the dead American soldiers, the shit will maybe finally hit the fan.

And by "shit hitting the fan", I mean maybe for once in their pathetic lives, George Bush and Dick Cheney will be held accountable for their warcrimes and flat out insanity.

I cant wait to see Condi in an orange jumpsuit either.

Old Billy Hussein @ 104:

Is the coast clear?--- @ 98:

Imagine the very thing that is heralding global disaster and countries fighting over that too. That would be like rats fighting each other in a sinking ship.

Tragic, isn’t it?

More like rats fighting over dynamite on a burning ship.

Even better---LOL----

And Russia is no more immune to unintended consquences than Georgia or the US. Many things they hoped wouldnt happen, will now happen. Thats the world.

But seeing what Russians did to the Chechen city of Grozny in 2000, the chechen people, the ingush and the georgians, the protests ring a little hollow. The Ossetians themselves have a history of abusing most of the above.

And now russia is taking land that has thousands of ethnic georgians on it. I didnt support Iraq, why would I support that?

Totally worthless Repuke whore. Eight years of absolutely nothing from this woefully under qualified gap toothed liar."She speaks so intelligently" whatever the fuck that means.

Is the coast clear?--- @ 105:

Old Billy Hussein @ 104:

Is the coast clear?--- @ 98:

Imagine the very thing that is heralding global disaster and countries fighting over that too. That would be like rats fighting each other in a sinking ship.

Tragic, isn’t it?

More like rats fighting over dynamite on a burning ship.

Even better---LOL----

Yep! OIL will apparently, through war or pollution be the way mankind ends it's own reign as the dominant species on this planet. Maybe we'll get hit with one of those asteroids and have it all end more quickly. We probably won't be that lucky, though.

When we learn it's about energy USA Government doesn't give a s**t about Iraq-Georgia-Afghanistan for that matter...We let them get away with it since we elected them.

Old Billy Hussein @ 92:

oncall @ 83:

When Israel sends bomb after bomb into civilian areas, this site is replete with those condemning Israel. However, after reading many of the comments in this thread, I have not seen one suggesting that Russia was too aggressive with their response. Russia's response did hurt their international reputation, but Condi Rice saying that is actually beyond ironic, it is pathetic.

What are the numbers?

This is from Human Rights Watch. Russia attacked civilian areas, but so did Georgia.

The US has always used as a policy "overwhelming force" in order to shorten wars and limit casualties. Why should Russia be held to a different standard?

The Israeli bombardment of Lebanon lasted 35 days. This entire conflict lasted less than 10.

I read the link. So, if each side does it, I guess it is OK when innocent civilians on either side are slaughtered. As to the point that the US approach is intended to shorten the war and limit casualties, I am reminded of "Shock and Awe" and its marvelous success. However, there is no denying the double standard in the liberal/progressive blogosphere when it comes to Israeli response versus some other nations' responses.

Is Russia officially kicked out of the G8? Rice says not yet, and that she's been talking "telephonically" with her counterparts in Russia and so the G8 relationship is an assist to those efforts. "This is not 1968," she says, not ruling out the possibility that it's 1938, or 1865, or even 480 BC. rotflmbbao

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 98:

oncall @ 83:

When Israel sends bomb after bomb into civilian areas, this site is replete with those condemning Israel. However, after reading many of the comments in this thread, I have not seen one suggesting that Russia was too aggressive with their response. Russia's response did hurt their international reputation, but Condi Rice saying that is actually beyond ironic, it is pathetic.

you obviously havn't been looking too hard.

Please show me the post before #83 (my first post in this thread) which condemns Russia for bombing innocent civilians. I may have missed it. I did read the link to Pat Buchannan in #22.

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 121:

oncall @ 118:
what's with the fixation on Israel?

It is not a fixation on Israel, it is a concern that many here don't seem to see the validity of Rice's statement that Russia has harmed its image. I am not an apologist for her and anybody that has read any of my other posts in the past knows that I am thoroughly disgusted with Bushco's policies. However, I am disheartened that when it comes to innocent civilians being slaughtered, some people are hesitant to condemn the Russians (and the Georgians too, after reading 92's post) because that condemnation falls all too easily into a political kabuki theater (i.e. if Russia is wrong, then the McCain's response is correct). Whichever country is responsible for this human tragedy, we have to be willing to condemn those responsible for killing innocent citizens.

oncall @ 124:

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 121:

oncall @ 118:
what's with the fixation on Israel?

It is not a fixation on Israel, it is a concern that many here don't seem to see the validity of Rice's statement that Russia has harmed its image. I am not an apologist for her and anybody that has read any of my other posts in the past knows that I am thoroughly disgusted with Bushco's policies. However, I am disheartened that when it comes to innocent civilians being slaughtered, some people are hesitant to condemn the Russians (and the Georgians too, after reading 92's post) because that condemnation falls all too easily into a political kabuki theater (i.e. if Russia is wrong, then the McCain's response is correct). Whichever country is responsible for this human tragedy, we have to be willing to condemn those responsible for killing innocent citizens.

I most certainly not condoning loss of civilian lives, but in ALL wars, they are the
collateral damage...NO exceptions in any War.

Old Billy Hussein @ 125:

bubba @ 110:

And Russia is no more immune to unintended consquences than Georgia or the US. Many things they hoped wouldnt happen, will now happen. Thats the world.

But seeing what Russians did to the Chechen city of Grozny in 2000, the chechen people, the ingush and the georgians, the protests ring a little hollow. The Ossetians themselves have a history of abusing most of the above.

And now russia is taking land that has thousands of ethnic georgians on it. I didnt support Iraq, why would I support that?

I totally agree that I can't support the Russian actions here, but I can't support the Georgian actions either. What would be really nice is if there were some kind of international organization through which conflicts could be resolved without resorting to bombing civilian areas or even having purely military conflicts.

We could call it something catchy like the League of United Nations or something and actually support it even when we (or our allies) don't get everything we want. We could even have international treaties that outlaw cluster bombs or biological weapons or landmines - or at lease limit ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons. The worst of the worst offenders of world peace and human dignity could be held accountable in some kind of international criminal court.

Yep. Wouldn't it be great if we moved toward international harmony and cooperation like that? It would probably never work... bombing the shit out of people is always a lot easier anyway.

oncall @ 118:

I read the link. So, if each side does it, I guess it is OK when innocent civilians on either side are slaughtered. As to the point that the US approach is intended to shorten the war and limit casualties, I am reminded of "Shock and Awe" and its marvelous success. However, there is no denying the double standard in the liberal/progressive blogosphere when it comes to Israeli response versus some other nations' responses.

I think you've mis-read me, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of crying about a "disproportionate" Russian military maneuver when its our own policy. And please don't start with the "leftists are anti-semites" crap.

I did misread you. I do not believe that leftists are anti-semites either. I believe there is a certain hypocrisy when it comes to finding fault with those when it is politically uncomfortable.

Old Billy Hussein @ 129:

oncall @ 124:

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 121:

oncall @ 118:
what's with the fixation on Israel?

It is not a fixation on Israel, it is a concern that many here don't seem to see the validity of Rice's statement that Russia has harmed its image. I am not an apologist for her and anybody that has read any of my other posts in the past knows that I am thoroughly disgusted with Bushco's policies. However, I am disheartened that when it comes to innocent civilians being slaughtered, some people are hesitant to condemn the Russians (and the Georgians too, after reading 92's post) because that condemnation falls all too easily into a political kabuki theater (i.e. if Russia is wrong, then the McCain's response is correct). Whichever country is responsible for this human tragedy, we have to be willing to condemn those responsible for killing innocent citizens.

Of course Russia was wrong to kill innocent civilians (by the way, how many did they kill?) But Sen. Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb Iran is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Russia didn't have an international reputation to harm. It's basically still a totalitarian oligarchy that needs to be seriously confronted on several issues. Russia's imperialist urges must be kept in check, but this situation isn't remotely that clean-cut. How can we complain about Russia attempting to impose it's hegemony on it's neighbors when one of it's neighbors is a U.S. satellite government that uses US weapons to take what it can't politically?

What if a Russian-armed Dominican Republic invaded and attempted to occupy Haiti? Or a Russian-armed Cuba invaded Guantanamo Bay?

Just because McBush came out forcefully against Russia (and I don't think he was right, he should have included Georgia with his rebuke), we should not be afraid to say that the Russian response was heavy handed. By saying something like that, I know that I am not supporting McSame or lending any credence to his shoot first and ask questions later diplomacy, and I don't think most Americans see it that way either. I may be wrong about that and may be giving too much credit to people to understand that this is not a black or white issue.

oncall @ 131:

Personally, I would be OK with a Russian/Cuban army invading and dismantling Guantanamo Bay

Touche.

And I see your point about McCain.

A follow-up from my post #57 in the evenings "Open Thread"

... I quote myself:

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 36:

.

From Thursday, 08/14/08
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&It...

Israeli and U.S. forces have assisted in training the Georgian troops.
This incursion into Ossetia was about exercising control of the OIL pipelines through the region.

Oh, but wait!
Karl Rove's ABSCOND... er vacation to Europe was to meet WITH members of the Session of the 5th annual summit of Yalta European Strategy on that Saturday morning.
http://www.yes-ukraine.org/en/Press_Centre.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&i...

Now, go figure...

.

Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 60:

Don't forget that that gaped tooth white house troll says Georgia proper includes the breakaway provinces of Georgia. To her, S. Ossitia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia and until Russian forces completely withdraw from the region, the White House will not be satisfied.

Hey, has anyone seen the Joe Biden is going to pay a visit to Georgia in an attempt of one-upsmanship to the GOP's envoys to Georgia? Anyone think that the Dems see this incident any differently?

What's an opposition Party?

.

I fear Russia is being lead into a conflict with America...
FRONT #1) Iranian enrichment and nuclear power plants made by Russia.
FRONT #2) Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles
FRONT #3) Georgian/Russian conflict(as elaborated in the links above)

At which point will Russia breakdown and begin a conflict with the great American Provocateur?

.

All I can say is that the american response to the situation has been so damn funny.... I mean the words that come out of condi not nice's mouth are hilarious. I mean come on"russia has hurt their international reputation" hahahahaaahaa have you not been paying attention to what people around the world think of the us since iraq was invaded?

I wonder what George Carlin would do with this material if he were still with us.

Condilingus needs to remove her head from her ass. Another in an endless series of moronic statements.

There's one international laughing stock...and that's Amerika.

By the way, after making this stupid remark, did she hustle down to Crawford to meet up with her precious little Chimpy?

Who would have their finger on the pulse of how to ruin a nation's reputation better than Condi? I mean, she's right. Beyond protecting (or "protecting" depending on your viewpoint) the breakaway provinces, Russia went out of its way to make sure Georgia understood the consequences of trying to invade South Ossetia again. Guess we just have to fire up the pollsters. "Most hated: U.S. or Russia?"

Everybody sing!!

"Bad boys bad boys
Whatcha gonna do
Whatcha gonna do when Condi comes for you

Bad boys bad boys
Whatcha gonna do
Whatcha gonna do when Condi comes for you"

Brian @ 141:

Has the media, and even the bloggers, forgotten what Condi's main qualifications are for her job? While we could expect her to be somewhat over her head dealing with the middle east, and perhaps expect her not to understand the consequences of a US invasion in the region, her speciality is Russia. That's what she studied! That's her expertise!

So how this happened without a lot of prior warning from her is pretty unforgivable. She could and should have been to Moscow well before this dealing with the situation. She should know the full regional history and have been aware of the issues given her educational background.

She was busy, trying on her new full leg length leather boots for Georgie over in China. Was that a whip cracking?

Phoned my 87 year old aunt in Toronto yesterday. I asked her opinion on the Georgian conflict. She stated that it was terrible what the Russians did by invading Georgia. I told her that Georgia started the fiasco plain and simple. She couldn`t understand why she got it all wrong. She said she watched all the big news networks. I advised her that if you are going to watch news at least watch the BBC or PBS, ( she has no internet ). Even Canadian CBC is corrupt.

Nobody's reputation is in the crapper more than the USA. I haven't heard one bad thing about Russia, but I live in Asia. Everyday I hear bad crap about the USA though (all over the world--travel, news, email). It's only the USA that is blowing this all out of proportion. I think they want Cold War II; good for MIC. The USA NEEDS a bogeyman.

I don't believe Russia has acted out of line (even though I am against hostilities.)

My favourite journalist, William Pfaff, has two good articles on his website about Georgia. This one is worth reading:

"Why Georgia Does Not Belong in NATO"
http://www.williampfaff.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=334

He has a great cite with very lucid opinions. As a History major, I think the guy is a genius. You'll see a second article if you go there. Worth the read!!!!!!!