Does McCain want to reinstate the draft?
By SilentPatriot Wednesday Aug 20, 2008 8:20pm
I know John McCain oftentimes doesn't speak for the McCain campaign, but someone in the press ought follow up on this immediately.
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
AUDIENCE MEMBER: If we don't reenact the draft I don't think we will have anyone to chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell.
MCCAIN: Ma'am let me say that I don't disagree with anything you said, and thank you ...
Here's what McCain said when asked about the draft in June:
"I don't know what would make a draft happen unless we were in an all-out World War III." ...
It's certainly possible McCain had a senior moment and didn't realize he was essentially agreeing with the woman about needing to bring back the draft. But what if he does genuinely agree with her? Shouldn't we have the know the answer to that question?
Login or Register to post comments.
"I don’t disagree with anything you said,"
Holy shit is he senile or is he that much of a war monger?
A draft would be a good thing - once the suburban kids realize they might go to Iraq, opposition is sure to become more vocal
but someone in the press ought follow up on this immediately.
[holding breath]
[turning...purple....]
[pass...ing....ouuuuu......]
As long as the poor make up the biggest part of the military, there will be no marching in the streets, no protests at home, no anti war songs cuz its just "them" dying over there. Not "us".
Look, we may not have a strategic need for a military draft but we need some sort of compulsory national service for our young people.
Badly.
He didn't listen to her question. He gave an answer he thought would cover anything.
Granted the lady rambled and was confusing, but McCain didn't listen. Not at all. Not one word. Watch his face and mannerisms.
He didn't listen and gave a "sure lady, I'll agree with anything" answer to get rid of her.
OT, but...
What's with the Oil Drilling ad that's been running on this site all day?
Is C&L funded by the GOP now?
So your going to chase a dead guy to the gates of a place that can't be verified to exist. Hmmmm.
And yes, Bin Laden is dead. I would say "just ask Madam Bhutto", but unfortunately she was assassinated. But she did mention Osama's killer before her untimely demise. According to her, he died in late 2001 and the man that killed him was killed in mid 2002.
Everything you've heard about Osama since 2002 has been lies.
We desperately need a draft. Not to supply fresh meat for the grinder, not to replace / reinforce / relieve overextended US troops, not to "surge" Afghanistan or prepare for war with Iran / Russia / or the latest enemy du jour, but to give a serious wake up call to the lazy, ignorant, complacent, something-for-nothing video-game deadheads of the Y generation. They would be rioting in the streets within five minutes on the institution of a draft, just like the millions of us who ended the Vietnam war with political pressure on the government.
Blatantly dishonest post here. Read the full transcript of this quote and you'll see that he is saying nothing of the stort, and is actually refering to care for veterans - NOT the draft - with that little "I don't disagree" snippet you chose to cut and paste:
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/does_mccain_favor_a...
Use this! Use this! USE THIS!
Noah @ 8:
Who said it would be fair. Five deferment cheney puts that lie to rest.
I thought she was speaking ironically. She seemed to be saying, "Look, we've wasted our troops. They're wounded and not getting cared for. They're dispirited and tired. If you really want to continue this insanity -- like 'following bin Laden to the gates of hell,' - you'll have to reinstate the draft because you just don't have enough young bodies to throw into the fire."
McCain, I thought, addressed only her comment about medical and health care for the military and its veterans. He wasn't talking about re instituting the draft; he was just being his usual oblivious old self.
Now, I'm not saying this old fool wouldn't bring back the draft if he thought he could get away with it. I'm just saying that I don't think that that's what he said today. I also don't think that's what the lady who posed the question really meant, either.
Now talk to me about this rich old lecher's many mansions! How many? Ummmm, his staff will have to get back to you on that! His hesitancy about the number of houses he owns was much more telling -- and much more damaging.
Johnny2Bad @ 4:
put them to work detasseling corn!
That type of statement and sentiment doesn't surprise me at all. If McSame & the neocons stay in office, we'll simultaneously have active combat troops in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Georgia.....and of course, our own cities trying to tamp down civil unrest in the form of protests.
And with the economy poised to go down even further in the next few years, the draft (a paycheck) may be an ONLY option for the former middle-class kids who watched their parents lose everything, including the ability to help send them to college.
But thank goodness McSame is going to help them out by allowing anyone who serves in the military to then use that service to offset the cost of a college education later. What's that? He doesn't want to help them out that way?
Oh, nevermind.
Monday, August 18, 2008
TWO FORMER GOP CONGRESSMEN TO U.S. COMBAT FORCES WORLDWIDE: MCCAIN UNFIT TO SERVE AS YOUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF
Ex-Reps. Warn Troops: As Senator He Abandoned American POWs Trapped in Indochina; as President He'll Abandon You
By
Bill Hendon & John LeBoutillier
Ed. note: This message from former U.S. Congressmen Bill Hendon (R-NC) and John LeBoutillier (R-NY) is being posted today on numerous military blogs and websites.
~~~~~~~~~~
He has told me several times over the years that the myth of live POWs was a cruel hoax on the families. He chaired hearings into the issue in the 1990s and found nothing. “The committee … pored over thousands of records and every claim of a sighting, no matter how outlandish,” says Salter. “It was all untrue.”
Jonathan Alter, When Ross Perot Calls..., Newsweek.com January 16, 2008
Senator John McCain's heroic and inspiring wartime service in Vietnam notwithstanding, we know from personal experience he is not fit to serve as Commander-in-Chief of America's armed forces. Here is how we know this:
In mid-summer 1991, the U.S. Senate created the Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs and charged it with conducting a no-holds-barred investigation into the long-festering matter of American POWs reportedly still held captive by the Communist North Vietnamese and Pathet Lao. On the day the legislation creating the Select Committee was passed, August 2, a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll conducted nationwide showed that 69% of Americans surveyed believed that Americans were still held captive in Southeast Asia and 75% believed the U.S. government wasn’t doing enough to get them home.
Link to DU
[Edited extensively. John, per the C&L commenting policy: C&L reserves the right to edit all e-mail and posted comments for content, clarity, and length.
Bandwidth is expensive. The comment space is reserved for comments that relate to the topic of the post . You may not reprint lengthy text from your own works or those of others, including news articles. You may link to them.
Thank you for thinking of this in the future. Site Monitor]
Experts: Obama-Ayers ad could be illegal!
The spot, released by the America Issues Project (an incorporated 501c(4) committee, according to a report by Politico's Ben Smith), intersperses images of Obama and Ayers, and features a narrator asking, "Why would Barack Obama be friends with someone who bombed the Capitol and is proud of it? Do you know enough to elect Barack Obama?"
"This negative campaign ad is clearly express advocacy, and under a federal law passed in 2003, the Bi-Partisan Campaign Reform Act (known colloquially as McCain-Feingold), it cannot legally be paid for with corporate money, including those of a non-profit," said Laura MacCleery, deputy director of the democracy program at the Brennan Center for Justice. "The ad indisputably concerns an election, takes a position on the character and fitness for office of a candidate, and raises no legislative issue. Even this highly skeptical Supreme Court would turn up its noses at the foul odor emitted by this clear abuse of federal election law."
For its part, a Fox News representative told the Associated Press that the network had rejected the spot.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/21/experts-obama-ayers-ad-ma_n_120...
I think he's deliberately bad.
Does McCain want to re-instate the draft. You better believe it.
not the gipper @ 2:
No doubt about it!! The draft put people on the streets in the 70's and it would really put an end to McCain. This is bigger than how many houses he doesn't know he has! It won't happen but the Dems need to pounce, and stay with it. Now!
lets have a draft that starts with the highest income brackets and works down to the lowest incomes. this is fair because upper brackets have more to lose if america loses, so they should be first to defend america.
Romney has half of a squad.
Hmmmmm?
well, those fine, young, Republican college students don't seem inclined to enlist......have they?
........
and will they call it a senior moment
when mcfuckhead pushes the red button
on that 3am call?
mudshark @ 20:
And that's just from the wife we know about...
Hopefully the draft will occur before McCain tries to occupy Russia. Otherwise, given current force levels, it would be one soldier per 500 square miles.
Noah @ 8:
I think I speak for all my generation when I say FUCK YOU.
Your generation voted Bush Co. into office.
Your generation voted the Senators who approved war into office.
Your generation has raped the environment.
Your generation has stripped our natural resources.
Your generation has passed on the largest debt in history.
Your generation fucked up this country, and now your are bashing us for the war that your generation started. Good luck bub.
hell, it may not even matter...
Ohio Voting Machines Contained Programming Error That Dropped Votes
Washington Post - 4 hours ago
By Mary Pat Flaherty A voting system used in 34 states contains a critical programming error that can cause votes to be dropped while being electronically transferred from memory cards to a central tallying point, the manufacturer acknowledges.
Company acknowledges voting machine error The Associated Press
Company admits voting machine error USA Today
all 736 news articles »
YourMom @ 6:
No, that's a Google Ad. We have little control over them. They run based on keywords scanned from the site.
If the GOP wants to waste money advertising here, let them.
katy @ 27:
and those programs are the property of the companies that make the voting machines. Which means our elections are the property of those same companies,
JimboSlice @ 26:
This coupled with the "white powder letters" hoax story just made my day
We are moving step by step to the event horizon of revolution.
I'll meet you in the street when the time comes :)
FUCK YOU OLD MAN!
it is a great rallying cry.
Of course McCain wants a draft - with exceptions for the children of rich white people of course.
More Wars, Less Jobs - John McCain
JimboSlice @ 26:
Then get off of your ass and do something. Quit playing video games and waiting for everyone to hand what ever you want to you.
After a few years of a McCain Presidency, there would be no need for a draft. All the army would have to do is offer clothes, food and shelter.
Americans will never allow the draft as it showed in the 60's when 2/3 of our young men never came home. To many people would try for the Bush Policy of wetting in their pant and calling their rich Fathers to get them out. Or use the famous Cheney 5 deferment policy and get your wife pregnant so who can stay home like a weak girl. Look right now it's a volunteer Military and Bush is using the Reserves and National Guard to fill in the spaces. If Voters were to have their sons sent off to an illegal invasion and not to college all hell would break out in America. Notice most of the Law Makers aren't sending their kids nor are all the people cheering for soldiers to stay in Iraq until they die. The Journalist wouldn't seen their kids because they didn't serve in the US Military. All the Democratic Vets who run for office are called cowards while the President, VP and other Law Makers who skipped out of serving in Vietnam are call American hero's. Even John McCain who beefed up the story of his POW days was really a weak girl who cried and used his Father's title to get special treatment as was told by his fellow soldiers. Like any lie McCain keeps changing it as he goes. Just think of it Bush got his degree from college because his Father gave money and McCain ranked 5th in his class of 799. Is that the best the US has to be President as McCain was at the bottom of his class and Bush had his degree paid for.
put romney's kids in front of the line if they're going to
establish the draft
Regardless of the disagreement at #30...Fuck you is a great rallying cry for all Americans. We have been royally screwed. This kind of crap has been going on since the mob and LBJ decided to blow off JFK's head. It has to stop. If we are asked to donate our children to the cause of the filthy obnoxiously rich who ignore the law and pass the Constitution off as a piece of butt wipe...the answer should be "fuck you"! Foreclosures, loss of pensions, loss of jobs, high taxes, inadequate health care, high rate of homeless and impoverished, infrastructure is falling apart, kids can't afford college, cars being repossessed, families forced to work more than one job while the kids are home alone and unsupervised just to make ends meet AND PAY TAXES (and then they ask why our kids are so screwed up), and the rich getting NOT richer...but obnoxiously rich thanks to the Bush Admin. Payback time people! Heads need to roll!
Did you know that most Americans pay more property taxes on the dinky shitholes they live in than McCain and his 10+ million dollar houses that he lives in? It's called loopholes and lawyers. Things the obnoxiously filthy rich have access to.
Eat the rich. Never know. Some day we may have to.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Yes McCain wants to reinstate the draft because he is motivated by war. It gets his juices flowing. Having said that, I want to see how all the draft dodging country club republicans feel about McCain's desire to bring back the draft. These republicans are all for war and will wave the flag and wear their flag lapel pins as long as the other poor bloke is fighting their battles for them and serving in the military in place of them. How will Romney and his five (count them) draft eligible sons feel about reinstatement of the draft. I hope McCain keeps talking this way because this is one issue (the draft) more than any other objectionable issue that will turn the draft dodging country club republicans away from McCain. McCain, not with my son or my daughter you don't! How may Bushes, Cheneys, Roves, ....... can you name that are currently serving in the military?
Johnny2Bad @ 4:
Wrong! I'm from the 60's and it was the rich/middle class kids who were protesting/dying on Kent State.
Hmmm @ 7:
Absolutely! Imagine if Americans found out, Bin Laden was dead. The fear that this would generate.
1- Their country has lied to them in the worst way
2- The USA doesn't even know who is leading their biggest foe. And their foe in fact isn't one man, it's an ideology....try to stop that!
What's the age to be drafted?
I guess all the young chicken hawks geography is gonna get alot better. But if you're coming north our PM is a king george suckup named steven harper. We're gonna be having an election soon so I hope we can kick his ass out of office.
I think McCain knew he was agreeing with the woman - he said he agreed with "everything" she said.
I believe Keith Olbermann made a few citations on his show this evening relevant to this issues - but I wasn't paying close attention, so I can't quote what he said.
KO did cite several other specific occasions in which McCain has called for reinstating a draft. So, anyone who knows how to post the video from KO's show should put it up.
JimboSlice @ 26:
Bravo.
There's no way McCain wants a draft. He was either saying that to placate his supporters, including Mrs. dumbshit, or just not listening to what she said at all.
Listen, a volunteer military is essential to the right-wing's agenda. A draft forces much broader and enduring support and participation in these wars of conquest.
If there was a draft, we would already be out of Iraq. In Vietnam, there were hundreds of thousands of desertions. Your fascist government can never allow that to happen again. It must have troops who are professionals, a small percentage of the population, a warrior class in society. A group that can be made separate from the rest of us and must obey orders. If they die, who cares...how many of us know them...how many of us bear their burdens?
It is key to the plans of those who wish to dominate the world, while the average American is kept in the dark, with a controlled media, anesthetized on the couch watching American Idol.
No my friends, there will be no draft. We don't need one. We have nuclear weapons if any conflict escalates to that level. And we will use them.
Welcome to the 21st Century.
The draft should be reinstated. Level the fighting field. Then what is taking place in Iraq and Afghanistan would be on the MSM. Well wait a minute if there had been a draft before the invasion there would more than likely not have been one.
Jo @ 43:
Bravo indeed. It's our generation that will have to clean up this fucking mess and support the older people like the baby boomers while we do it. These selfish bastards piss me off. I'm tired of them dictating our future. Vietnam is over....IT'S OVER. MOVE ON.
JimboSlice @ 26:
Uh-Bush has never been voted into office-the long run into environmental shittiness started centuries ago, ramped up during the industrial Revolution, and throughout the 20th Century. Bush has passed on the largest debt, Bush and PNAC, a bush of flaccid rich fucks started the war.
This is not generational. It's Class. The upper class, the Robber Barons, the Corporatocracy. And by accusing a generation of it -- well, you play into the hands of those in control by fighting over crumbs off the rich man's table.
constituent @ 35:
Lieberman's, Bush, Cheney's all of the chickenhawks. Your kids first
who knows what mccain wants to do....why do i say that
because every fxxking thing he says has second and third
interpretations and qualifiers. can't this guy be fxxking responsible for anything he says.
this straight talk express is less than straight. i hope people see the obvious mccain is not clear or straight
Whitey @ 32:
I play video games often. They exercise my mind. I don't just watch TV and suck up bullshit every night. I also work my ass off to pay taxes. I'm politically active and trying to make a difference too.
I'm generation X and proud of it.
And I'll be paying taxes for the next 30 years to keep you baby boomer ass healthy and fed.
Good point Miss Kitty...Bush was never legally elected. Voter fraud was rampant in both elections due to the republican supporting diebold company and their "faulty" machines.
Same story will be told with Obama. If the global elite want McCain..McCain it will be. There will be no other choice for us.
Kathleen @ 48:
Amazingly, all of these wonderful warriors of ours have set themselves up with some lovely homes and property in the country of Paraguay in case things get a little rough here. To the Hague in chains will mean having to barter with the Paraguayan government to have them extradited...doubtful it will happen. The Bush Corp. is more than prepared for the "little people" actually acknowledging the truth and seeking revenge.
john @ 51:
Now I think there was is a point to the whole voter fraud issue but the fact is that Bush received a very large % of the vote (clearly >40% both times).
yakfitguy @ 50:
Thank you for all your hard work. I had to work my ass off to support the greatest generation, until I became disabled. So you are supporting my boomer ass now, earlier. I hope that pisses you off, that you are helping me. Helping others always burns my arse. Both my folks worked to support people who were in SS at the beginning. And they both died before they collected a penny.
It's how it is. If you don't want to share, move to the woods and become self sufficient. No taxes to pay then...
Make love not war.
Less war, not more.
Hell no, dont go.
Those seeking to avoid forced service( or internment ) please take this advice :
No use of you running or screaming and crying
'Cause you got a home as long as I've got mine
Canuckistani Grand Wazoo. ( 100% real Angorra )
JimboSlice @ 53:
That wasn't all boomers. A lot of Xers voted for him too.
Do you think that all the fuckin toys Xers have to have don't impact the environment, as long as we're here? Plastics, all sorts of shit we can never get rid of. I can play the blame game with you all night long, young man. :P
It would seem Republicans are going to have to decide if they hate black people more than they love their kids. Based on the Republicans I know, their kids are screwed.
JimboSlice @ 53:
And if the media is a fraud and voting is a fraud you know this because........??????
miss_kitty @ 56:
I think your missing the point here. What I was writing was in response to Noah earlier who said what we needed was the draft for ".. a serious wake up call to the lazy, ignorant, complacent, something-for-nothing video-game deadheads of the Y generation. They would be rioting in the streets within five minutes on the institution of a draft, just like the millions of us who ended the Vietnam war with political pressure on the government."
From his post he was insinuating that Gen Y is responsible for the current situation because we have not been rioting in the streets and we are instead a collection of "lazy, ignorant, complacent, something-for-nothing video-game deadheads" By making an inflammatory statement like that he ignores the obvious fact that this situation was left to us by his generation. I like older people, I don't mind paying my taxes, I don't mind paying into social security - I (like everyone in history) wishes the taxes were less but I understand that it goes to a good cause. But for one minute to point the blame at the young in this country for not rioting against what has been left to us is ridiculous, and to call out his hypocrisies isn't playing the "blame game".
miss_kitty @ 54:
I have no problem paying my share and helping others. However,
Baby boomers inherited an America with good infrastructure, free or low cost education, modest housing costs, good schools, abundant resources, a strong manufacturing sector, pensions, social security, and on and on.
Wanna know what my generation gets? NONE OF THAT SHIT.
But we are going to get nice consolation prizes: The largest deficits ever. The largest percentage of in history of our taxes going to pay for Medicare, Social Security, etc, a completely ruined environment, and a broken neo-fascist government.
Yes, I will pay my fair share and then some, but before people criticize younger generations, remember, you raised us and you built this world of today. You were in charge.
Enjoy your retirement. I may never have one.
If the neocons and other chickenhawks like McGaffe want permanent war, they can go fight it themselves. Draft the old people and let them go kill the terrrarrrists.
Maybe that will finally wipe the smile off of Bill Kristol's stupid face.
Beef Jerky @ 33:
No shit.
yakfitguy @ 60:
Our generation does need to consider what their legacy will be as viewed by yours---instead of being crass consumerists with an entitlement mentality we would do well to harmonize with our earth and live within our means. It is never too late to start, however getting off the egotistic crack of consumption will be difficult for many because more, more, more seems to be embedded in our way of living. Taking a cut is left to others---how selfish and rude. Personally, I'll be glad to cut back instead of delivering an IOU to my daughter's generation. Best we set a good example now while we still have options---for our legacy to your generation may be that you have a compromised world with unsolvable problems.
yakfitguy @ 60:
I was never in charge, did not raise any kids, nor did I build todays world. And I am not retired. I'm disabled. I'd love to work, But am unable to. It's that simple.
And I never was much of a consumer. I've owned one car in my life, I bought it 1991, drive about 4500 miles a year.
Todays world is the end result of the cumulative effects of civilisation, not the work of one generation.
I spent my entire life railing and working against the activities that have come to make this country the shit hole it is today. In fact it was the Greatest Generation that spearheaded the shit you accuse boomers of. I know; those were the pricks I was fighting as a kid and a teen and a young woman.
If you Xers were serious about it, you'd lose the Big Assed TVs the iPods the Wiis the PS3s the Xboxes. You'd not eat meat, buy big cars, or cars every couple years. You'd save money. You'd limit yourselves to 1 kid per two adults. You'd vacation close to home or at home mostly. You'd bus to work. But you all won't do that. You'll just use up as much as you can. Balls to the wall and all that. If you personally don't use stuff up, those around you will. Those are the people you need to reach.
I refuse your accusation. I did everything in my power to use less than most, not leave a big footprint on the earth.
miss_kitty @ 64:
All I can say is: calm down nitro, no need to get yourself in a tizzy.
JimboSlice @ 65:
JimboSlice @ 26:
Um, I'm not the one in a tizzy, mate. I like how you do that -- "J'accuse (emotionally and inaccurately)!" respondent replies and you're all "No need to get yourself in a tizzy."
We call that 'projection.'
Here's a thought -- take your own sage advice. It's the smartest thing you've said all night, as re yourself.
What else is an old 73 year old senile man who was in the military over 40 years ago to do.
He has already admitted that he knows nothing about this failing economy, that he has been a good part of the reason it is failing and his voting record reflects this charge.
He knows that we are running out of foolish young people willing to jump right in and give their lives for a unworthy cause and the ones that are already their and have served two, three and even four terms, are just to weary to continue.
He knows, or if doesn't know already that our US Treasury is busted and dry, so I believe that he will continue borrowing more and more money from China, and sell out more and more American stock and treasures, to accomplish this evil task.
McCain is the reason the majority of American people are going to be busting the polling doors open to get in and cast their votes to not only deny McCain his last chance to become President, but to vote out of office, as many republicans as we can smell, will go with him.
not the gipper @ 2:
It will. But I could see some problems with it.
I'm almost certain that the NeoCons will pick a BIG fight with one of the other superpowers and force us into a serious war. The unprivileged will die, while the children of rich, connected people will pull a 'Dubya' and get cushy posts and coast their way through the war. Some will probably just leave the country.
Not only are the NeoCons trying to commit class warfare using financial means, but they'll make sure that a lot of innocent people are left dead in the dust, or simply burned away to ashes in a nuclear fire.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; The NeoCons don't give a damn about America. They just want to make a huge profit and run.
These yapping dogs of war need to be spaded and have their teeth pulled out, or the world will become a very ugly place for the people who can't buy their way out of harm's way.
miss_kitty @ 66:
Out of curiosity have you ever registered for Selective Services? Would you be eligible for a draft? Okay, then stop mocking those that would about being the cause of our current problems because we have not rioting against your generation.
JimboSlice @ 69:
Calm down. Where did I mock any one other than you? And only for your misguided views of what has brought the world close to its knees. Nothing more. I've enjoyed reading your comments for the most part.
Why would I register? I'm anti war. I'd ask for asylum elsewhere.
The only thing that's going to make these rich war profiteering assholes think maybe twice about sacrificing military men and women on a whim is if they have a dog in the fight. In this case, their own flesh and blood. That's the agenda behind reinstating the draft. And you can bet there won't be the pussy clauses chickenshits like Cheney and Limbaugh can slip their cowardly arses through.
It profits the war machine, the Bushes, the Cheneys, the PNACers, The Blackwaters, Carlyle Group to have shitty education, no health care for the poor, shitty job opportunities, so poorly educated lower classes will volunteer for military, as a way out, a way up. They create an underclass to fight their wars, mow their lawns, clean their toilets, suck their cocks.
Again you are trying to fight me for crumbs off a rich mans table. I am not your adversary. The generation that birthed you is not your adversary. The Überklass is.
Why a decorated war vet who personally knows McCain will NEVER vote for him to be President:
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html
Bush and McCain are of one mind. So, if Bush says we're not going to have a draft, it must mean we're not going to have a draft. (But if we do, don't worry, we'll still be doin' that 'college deferment' thing.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWZ70cs5xo&NR=1
Hey patriot, what Mccain said afterwards cemented his meaning.
After telling the woman that he agreed with her, he then started talking about how he had a paper in his pocket that was a quote from George Washington, citing the idea that all young people should be required to serve their country.
In other words, he ELABORATED on the theme! A draft it certainly is-- but the Repubs won't call it that, they'll call it "national service" or something.
votingvet @ 12:
Not so-- you should hear the whole response-- Olbermann had it on-- he quoted George Washington about young people needing to serve their country!
The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. The five senators, Alan Cranston (D-CA), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-OH), John McCain (R-AZ), and Donald W. Riegle (D-MI), were accused of improperly aiding Charles H. Keating, Jr., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB).
After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".
All five of the senators involved served out their terms. Only Glenn and McCain ran for re-election, and they were both re-elected.
Circumstances
See also: Savings and Loan crisis
The U.S. Savings and Loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s was the failure of 747 savings and loan associations (S&Ls) in the United States. The ultimate cost of the crisis is estimated to have totaled around $160.1 billion, about $124.6 billion of which was directly paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.[1].
The concomitant slowdown in the finance industry and the real estate market may have been a contributing cause of the 1990-1991 economic recession. Between 1986 and 1991, the number of new homes constructed per year dropped from 1.8 million to 1 million, the lowest rate since World War II.[2]
The Keating Five scandal was prompted by the activities of one particular savings and loan: Lincoln Savings and Loan Association of Irvine, California. Lincoln's chairman was Charles Keating, who ultimately served five years in prison for his corrupt mismanagement of Lincoln.[3] In the four years since Keating's American Continental Corporation (ACC) had purchased Lincoln in 1984, Lincoln's assets had increased from $1.1 billion to $5.5 billion.[4] Such savings and loan associations had been deregulated in the early 1980s, allowing them to make highly risky investments with their depositors' money, a change of which Keating took advantage.[4] Lincoln's investments took the form of buying land, taking equity positions in real estate development projects, and buying high-yield junk bonds.[5]
Corruption allegations
The core allegation of the Keating Five affair is that Keating had made contributions of about $1.3 million to various U.S. Senators, and he called on those Senators to help him resist regulators. The regulators backed off, to later disastrous consequences.
Beginning in 1985, Edwin J. Gray, chair of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB), feared that the savings industry's risky investment practices were exposing the government's insurance funds to huge losses.[5] Gray instituted a rule whereby savings associations could hold no more than ten percent of their assets in "direct investments",[5] and were thus prohibited from taking ownership positions in certain financial entities and instruments.[6] Lincoln had become burdened with bad debt resulting from its past aggressiveness, and by early 1986,[5] its investment practices were being investigated and audited by the FHLBB:[7] in particular, whether it had violated these direct investment rules; Lincoln had directed FDIC-insured accounts into commercial real estate ventures.[4] By the end of 1986, the FHLBB had found that Lincoln had $135 million in unreported losses and had surpassed the regulated direct investments limit by $600 million.[5]
Keating had earlier taken several measures to oppose Gray and the FHLBB, including recruiting a study from then-private economist Alan Greenspan saying that direct investments were not harmful,[5] and getting President Ronald Reagan to make a recess appointment of a Keating ally, Atlanta real estate developer Lee H. Henkel Jr., to an open seat on the FHLBB.[5] But by March 1987, Henkel had resigned, upon news of his having large loans due to Lincoln.[5]
It appeared as though the government might seize Lincoln for being insolvent.[6] The investigation was, however, taking a long time.[7] Keating was asking that Lincoln be given a lenient judgment by the FHLBB, so that it could limit its high risk investments and get into the safe (at the time) home mortgage business, thus allowing the business to survive. A letter from audit firm Arthur Young & Co. bolstered Keating's case that the government investigation was taking a long time.[8] Keating now wanted the five senators to intervene with the FHLBB on his behalf.
By March 1987, Keating and DeConcini were asking McCain to travel to San Francisco to meet with regulators regarding Lincoln Savings; McCain refused.[8][6] DeConcini told Keating that McCain was nervous about interfering.[6] Keating called McCain a "wimp" behind his back, and on March 24, Keating and McCain had a heated, contentious meeting.[8]
On April 2, 1987, a meeting with chairman Gray of the FHLBB was held in DeConcini's Capitol office, with Senators Cranston, Glenn, and McCain also in attendance.[6] DeConcini started the meeting with a mention of "our friend at Lincoln."[6] Gray told the assembled senators that he did not know the particular details of the status of Lincoln Savings and Loan, and that the senators would have to go to the bank regulators in San Francisco that had oversight jurisdiction for the bank. Gray did offer to set up a meeting between those regulators and the senators.[6]
On April 9, 1987, a two-hour meeting[4] with three members of the FHLBB San Francisco branch was held, again in DeConcini's office, to discuss the government's investigation of Lincoln.[8][6] Present were Cranston, DeConcini, Glenn, McCain, and additionally Riegle.[6] The regulators felt that the meeting was very unusual and that they were being pressured by a united front, as the senators presented their reasons for having the meeting.[6] McCain said, "One of our jobs as elected officials is to help constituents in a proper fashion. ACC is a big employer and important to the local economy. I wouldn't want any special favors for them.... I don't want any part of our conversation to be improper." Glenn said, "To be blunt, you should charge them or get off their backs," while DeConcini said, "What's wrong with this if they're willing to clean up their act? ... It's very unusual for us to have a company that could be put out of business by its regulators."[6] The regulators then revealed that Lincoln was under criminal investigation on a variety of serious charges, at which point McCain severed all relations with Keating.[6] Glenn continued to help Keating after that revelation, by setting up a meeting with then-House Majority Leader Jim Wright, which turned out to be the only questionable thing Glenn did throughout the whole affair.[9]
The San Francisco regulators finished their report in May 1987 and recommended that Lincoln be seized by the government due to unsound lending practices.[6][4] Gray, whose time as chair was about to expire, deferred action on the report, saying that his adversarial relationship with Keating would make any action he took seem vindictive, and that instead the incoming chair should take over the decision.[5] Meanwhile Keating filed a lawsuit against the FHLBB, saying it had leaked confidential information about Lincoln.[5] The new FHLBB chair was M. Danny Wall, who was more sympathetic to Keating and took no action on the report, saying its evidence was insufficient.[4][6] In September 1987, the Lincoln investigation was removed from the San Francisco group and in May 1988, a new audit of Lincoln began in Washington.[6]
News of the April meetings between the senators and the FHLBB officials first appeared in National Thrift News in September 1987, but was only sporadically covered by the general media for the next year and a half.[10]
Failure of Lincoln
Lincoln stayed in business; from mid-1987 to April 1989, its assets grew from $3.91 billion to $5.46 billion.[5] During this time, the parent American Continental Corporation was desperate for cash inflow to make up for losses in real estate purchases and projects.[11] Lincoln's branch managers and tellers convinced customers to replace their federally-insured certificates of deposit with higher-yielding bond certificates of American Continental; the customers later said they were never properly informed that the bonds were uninsured and very risky given the state of American Continental's finances.[11]
American Continental went bankrupt in April 1989, and Lincoln was seized by the FHLBB on April 14, 1989.[4] More than 21,000 mostly elderly investors lost their life savings. This total came to about $285 million.[citation needed] The federal government was liable for $2 billion to cover Lincoln's losses when it seized the institution.[11]
Keating was hit with a $1.1 billion fraud and racketeering action, filed against him by the regulators.[4] Asked whether his contributions had bought him influence, Keating said: “I want to say in the most forceful way I can: I certainly hope so.”[12]
When the former chairman of the FHLBB went public about the Senators' assistance to Keating, that set off a series of investigations by the California government, the United States Department of Justice, and the Senate Ethics Committee. The Ethics Committee's investigation focused on all five senators, who soon became known as the "Keating Five". The initial charges against the five Senators were brought by Common Cause, a public interest group, and the Senate’s inquiry subsequently lasted 22 months.[13]
Relationships of senators to Keating
Once Lincoln failed, the relationships of all the senators to Keating came under intense press scrutiny.
Cranston had received $39,000 from Keating and his associates for his 1986 Senate re-election campaign. Furthermore, Keating had donated some $850,000 to assorted groups founded by Cranston or controlled by him, and another $85,000 to the California Democratic Party.[4]
DeConcini had received about $48,000 from Keating and his associates for his 1988 Senate re-election campaign.[4] In September 1989, DeConcini stated he would return the money.[4]
Glenn had received $34,000 in direct contributions from Keating and his associates for his 1984 presidential nomination campaign, and a political action committee tied to Glenn had received an additional $200,000.[4]
McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981.[8] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in lawful[14] political contributions from Keating and his associates.[15] In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[6][16]
Riegle had received some $76,000 from Keating and his associates for his 1988 Senate re-election campaign.[4] Riegle later announced in April 1988 he was returning the money.[5]
Conclusion of investigation
The Senate Ethics Committee's report regarding the Keating matter came out in August 1991, and addressed each of the five senators.[17]
Cranston: severely reprimanded
The Senate Ethics Committee ruled that Cranston had acted improperly by interfering with the investigation by the FHLBB.[17] He had received more than a million dollars from Keating, had done more arm-twisting than the other Senators on Keating's behalf, and was the only Senator officially rebuked by the Senate in this matter.[18]
Cranston was given the harshest penalty of all five Senators. In November of 1991, the Senate Ethics Committee voted unanimously to reprimand Cranston, instead of the more severe measure that was under consideration: censure by the full Senate. Extenuating circumstances that helped to save Cranston from censure were the fact that he was suffering from cancer, and that he had decided to not seek reelection, according to the Chairman of the Ethics Committee, Democratic Senator Howell Heflin of Alabama. The Ethics Committee took the unusual step of delivering its reprimand to Cranston during a formal session of the full Senate, with almost all 100 Senators present.[13]
Cranston was not accused of breaking any specific laws or rules, but of violating standards that Heflin said “do not permit official actions to be linked with fund-raising.” The Ethics Committee officially found that Cranston’s conduct had been “improper and repugnant”, deserving of "the fullest, strongest and most severe sanction which the committee has the authority to impose." The sanction was in these words: "the Senate Select Committee on Ethics, on behalf of and in the name of the United States Senate, does hereby strongly and severely reprimand Sen. Alan Cranston.”[13]
After the Senate reprimanded Cranston for repugnant conduct, Cranston took to the Senate floor to deny key charges against him. In response, Senator Warren Rudman of New Hampshire, the Republican Vice-Chairman of the Ethics Committee, charged that Cranston’s response to the reprimand was “arrogant, unrepentant and a smear on this institution," and that Cranston was wrong to imply that everyone does what Cranston had done. Alan Dershowitz, serving as Senator Cranston's attorney, alleged that other Senators had merely been better at “covering their tracks.”[13] Likewise, political historian Lewis Gould has written that, “the real problem for the 'Keating Three' who were most involved was that they had been caught.”[19]
Riegle and DeConcini: criticized for acting improperly
The Senate Ethics Committee ruled that Riegle and DeConcini had acted improperly by interfering with the investigation by the FHLBB.[17]
DeConcini later charged that McCain had leaked to the press sensitive information about the investigation that came from some of the closed proceedings of the Ethics Committee.[6] McCain denied doing so, although one congressional investigator concluded that McCain had been one of the main leakers during that time.[6]
Glenn and McCain: cleared of impropriety but criticized for poor judgment
The Senate Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of Glenn in the scheme was minimal, and the charges against him were dropped.[17] He was only criticized by the Committee for "poor judgment."[20]
The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him.[18][17] McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf.[6] The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."[14] On his Keating Five experience, McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."[6]
Several accounts of the controversy contend that McCain was included in the investigation primarily so that there would be at least one Republican target.[21][22][23][9] Glenn's inclusion in the investigation has been attributed to Republicans who were angered by the inclusion of McCain, as well as committee members who thought that dropping Glenn (and McCain) would make it look bad for the remaining three Democratic Senators.[21][23] Democrat Robert S. Bennett, who was the special investigator during the scandal, suggested to the Senate Ethics Committee that it pursue charges against neither McCain nor Glenn, saying of McCain, "that there was no evidence against him."[22] The Vice Chairman of the Ethics Committee, Senator Warren Rudman of New Hampshire, agreed with Bennett, but the Chairman, Senator Howell Heflin of Alabama, did not agree.[9]
Regardless of the level of their involvement, both senators were greatly affected by it. McCain would write in 2002 that attending the two April 1987 meetings was "the worst mistake of my life".[24] Glenn has described the Senate Ethics Committee investigation as the low point of his life.[7]Reactions
Not everyone was satisfied with the Senate Ethics Committee conclusions. Fred Wertheimer, president of Common Cause, which had initially demanded the investigation, thought the treatment of the senators far too lenient, and said, "The U.S. Senate remains on the auction block to the Charles Keatings of the world."[25] Joan Claybrook, president of Public Citizen, called it a "whitewash".[25] Jonathan Alter of Newsweek said it was a classic case of the government trying to investigate itself, labelling the Senate Ethics Committee "shameless" for having "let four of the infamous Keating Five off with a wrist tap."[26] Margaret Carlson of Time suspected the committee had timed its first report to coincide with the run-up to the Gulf War, minimizing its news impact.[25]Aftermath
Cranston left office in January of 1993, and died in December of 2000. DeConcini and Riegle continued to serve in the Senate until their terms expired, but they did not seek re-election in 1994. DeConcini was appointed by President Bill Clinton in February 1995 to the Board of Directors of the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation. [27]
Glenn did choose to run for re-election in 1992, and it was anticipated that he would have some difficulty winning a fourth term in the Senate. However, Glenn handily defeated Lieutenant Governor R. Michael DeWine for one more term in the Senate before retiring in 1999.
After 1999, the only member of the Keating Five remaining in the U.S. Senate was John McCain, who had an easier time gaining re-election in 1992 than he anticipated,[28] and who ran for president in 2000 and became the Republican presumptive nominee in 2008. McCain survived the political scandal by, in part, becoming friendly with the political press, and in part by not letting the controversy detract from his work as a senator.[28]
The scandal was followed by a number of attempts to adopt campaign finance reform—spearheaded by U.S. Sen. David Boren (D-OK)—but most attempts died in committee. A weakened reform was passed in 1993. Substantial campaign finance reform was not passed until the adoption of the McCain-Feingold Act in 2002.
If you heard that John McCain dumped his first wife for a rich socialite who helped launch McCain's political career... well, that's pretty much true. McCain came back from Vietnam to find his wife had been in a horrific car accident. As a result, she had gained some weight. Perhaps, the story goes, her altered physical appearance was a factor in his pursuit of 25-year-old socialite Cindy Hensley, who he would soon marry, after securing a tidy, uncontested divorce from poor Carol.
McCain's second wife, Cindy, has also been smeared as a former drug addict. Between 1989 and 1992 she became addicted to painkillers. She admitted to stealing pills from a charitable organization she ran at the time. Cindy McCain was never prosecuted and allegations that McCain intervened on her behalf have never been substantiated. No worse behavior than, say, a certain popular talk show host that really dislikes Cindy McCain's husband.
katy @ 27:
That's awesome! At least now we've got some hard evidence to stop using those dumbass electronic voting machines. 76 news stories in a few hours!? That's great! It has legs!
I actually hope they do reinstate the draft in the US. Nothing better to bring the wars home for soccer moms and chicken halks.
IndridCold @ 77:
Seconded. Nothing like conscription to make folks realize that war is no joke, and get people away from romanticizing it (and soldiers..)
When did a democracy with a conscript army ever fight a war the people didn't support? Never.
Of course, the Pentagon knows this too. Which is why they've gone in the exact opposite direction.. Expanding the reserve dramatically, and now we're even using mercenaries.
not the gipper @ 2:
I agree totally. When they were considering doing away with the draft I was for it. But as a child of the late 60's and early 70's opposed to the Vietnam war (Not our troops) there were millions of students invested in opposition. There were protests on campus, there were Draft and Peace Centers, there were specific newspapers and comic books in opposition. People were organized and committed. There was a reason for being invested in the opposition. Now I look back and see students opposed to it. Many are in the national guard and can't get out and no one to support them. We are in a terrible war and nobody cares. They hide the pictures of the troops coming home in caskets, they hide the financial costs, they hide the human rights abuse and the torture, they hide the number of suicides by our own soldiers, they hide the wounded and lack of care....and on and on. If there is a draft for men and women were are all invested. Reason to oppose will all become clearer.
Luckily, the majority of front line troops today are immigrants who are not yet full citizens. Of course, the microsecond you set foot in a war zone wearing a US military uniform you should IMMEDIATELY become a citizen, but that's another story.
If McSame even MENTIONS a draft or implies that warmongering, spoiled rich brats may have to serve their country, you will see an end to any support for McSame.
Sure ther will be the privilaged few who will join the Texas air National Guard or the South Dakota Air National Guard, but the rest will really be pissed off at having to actually do any work.
I hate the idea of a draft, but I have had my fill of neocon punks in my face with what a wonderful president we have and that all Dems are terrorist. Tote yo Halo playin butts over there and play some real first person shooter. You only get one man and its your ass, N00bs. This country needs an enema. As long as somebody else is picking up the check it's all well and good, let's see how long it takes for these Bush loving soccer mom's to hit the streets when there little bumpkins come back home gift wrapped.
MikenaJ @ 9:
Nonetheless, she ends her comment by stating "If we don’t reenact the draft..." as if that sums up what's she's saying, that a draft is one way to fix the broken army.
True, she's talking about health care for veterans, etc, but then why doesn't she end her comment by saying "if we don't raise taxes, our veterans won't get proper healthcare."
No, she says "draft." And then mccain "agrees with everything she says."
McCain was always in favor of staying in Vietnam longer - he thought we gave up too soon - I guess 56,000 war dead just wasn't enough. So don't make the mistake of thinking McCain didn't really mean what he said - he meant it, all right. He' s fine with a draft and really, how else can the Army be rebuilt quickly? Of course the commanders don't want a bunch of draftees, but these soldiers are just bodies to fill up the ranks.
And the next time you hear someone say that Iraq is way down the list of things that Americans are most worried about, ask them just how the hell is John McCain planning to pay out $10-12 billion per MONTH on a war that isn't a war? Keep borrowing from the Chinese? How much good could that money be doing here at home? Iraq IS an economic issue!
Only Keith O. and the left wing bloggers are paying attention to this.
The MSM have not touched it. The draft is an even bigger third rail than SS. If they mention this, McCain goes down in flames. (Which wouldn't really be a new experience for him).
Here's a question for everyone: What would happen if the draft was linked to the declaration of war? In other words, going to war with another nation automatically instituted the draft.
If this country had a draft it would almost guarantee washington would actually need a legitimate reason to go to war. Granted the lucky sperm club would still get their deferments, but the majority of the country would have to pony up their sons and daughters, and if the nation didn't believe the argument for war was valid we'd be out of wherever we were in a New York minute. There's entirely too much of a attitude in this country, that says if it doesn't impact on me personally I don't have a problem with it, it's no big deal if somebody elses kid gets put in harms way so long as it's not mine.
By the way Both my father and father-in-law were retired enlisted men (Navy) both saw action WW2, Korea,and the Nam, and now my son has enlisted in the Marine Corps. This affects me personally; however my sentiments were the same 20 years ago as they are now.
lj @ 19:
Which is exactly why they WON'T do it...They don't want the unwashed hordes to protest. They want us complacent and malleable.
john#36 sez "Eat the rich. Never know. Some day we may have to." I agree, they are tender and tasty because they've led easy lives. Not stringy like members of the working and underclasses, more like milk-fed veal than beef. My suggestion is that their livers be served with fava beans and a nice chianti. Bon appetit!
Liberal AND Proud @ 84:
Actually I saw them talkin about it on NBC yesterday.
miss_kitty @ 70:
Understandable, but I think that people are playing football with those of us who would be selected by any draft. It seems that some on the far left actually want the draft because they believe that it will make the war come to an end, and I don't think that is a gamble that is correct or worth it. It seems to me like some people (such as Noah) only believe that a draft will end this war and they are willing to risk one to do so, well that is fine and dandy for them because they won't be forced into service. Furthermore a draft would have no effect on the current war as the Uberklass' kids would get defferments or cushy positions with the Alabama Air National Guard.
BTW we still have the Selective Service in this country, when a male turns 18 they are required to register with SS or else they can't get college loan or aide.
yakfitguy @ 60:
Well said, as a tail end Gen X'er I can relate.
Ever notice you can't say crap about the boomers without getting jumped on, but from the time we were kids, we were constantly told how our generation sucks.
Maybe that is where the "bad attitude" comes from, hm?
START REPORTING THIS EVERYWHERE! THIS IS GOLD AND IF WE CAN MAKE IT A TALKING POINT THAT MCCAIN WILL REINSTATE THE DRAFT, IT WILL ASSURE AN OBAMA VICTORY
Look, we may not have a strategic need for a military draft but we need some sort of compulsory national service for our young people.
Compulsory service would be better for the 50-65 year olds. They already made their wad, their kids are grown up, and they've really got nothing better to do than offer up a few years in service to the country that gave them so much.
Eventually someone will ask McCain to clarify his position on the draft, and he will backtrack rather than commit political suicide.
The problem for him is that once the word 'draft' is out there, and associated with him even vaguely, it may be over anyway.
JimboSlice @ 91:
I addressed that in my reply. I would fight tooth and nail to stop any draft that allowed outs for assholes.
Actually, I'd like to see National Service instead. Women included, military service not the only way to serve your country. Some of the more well off nations do this (Norway springs to mind. England used to and is much poorer for having dumped it.). And it's taught in school that EVERYONE serves their country, not just the guys.
They could find something for ME to do under 'National Service' I'd hop on tomorrow. I owe this country, too.
raye @ 92:
Oooh. And defending ourselves from lies and history rewrites is you getting 'jumped on?' Shit honey, if your skin is that thin and you are that myopic, I can only wish you luck, because you'll need it to survive what's coming.
I have to assume your "bad attitude" comes from being handed everything as a kid.
They can't reinstate the draft soon enough for me. THEN maybe people will get off their complacent dead asses and DO something about our government and its failed policies. As long as MY kid and YOUR kid and maybe even YOU and I don't have to go to war, we keep sitting here typing away and doing sweet F-A. Bring on the draft, then the bring on the draft riots.
McCain's comfort zone is the military, whether speaking about healthcare, the economy, gay marriage he has to insert the military somewhere. It all goes back to his fall lines its a matter or national security or to protect America's freedom. Now his answer to every attack is that he was a POW a hero so how dear the press ask questions of him he is untouchable because he spent more years in Hanoi Hilton than anywhere else. I am so sick of hearing these lines since it does not make him a natural leader or judgement to lead. I believe that McCain will bring back the draft and he will keep us at war wherever he could. He sees the presidency through his war experience. He honors our veterans and speak highly of the troops but does not support legislation to help them. Americans need to wake up and say NO to McBush McSsame WARMONGER McCain
Hey people with his talk about being in Iraq 100 yrs where did you expect him to get the troops. HE WILL REPEAT WILL PUT THE DRAFT BACK ON THE TABLE. Don't let anyone fool you. He wants to send our kids to the gates of hell to get Osama than I say put all the old men especially the men in the house and senate republicans that pushed for this war maybe the gates of hell will open up for them. Than may be we can finally straighten our country out. Americans should want to be treated with respect.
The answer to the question is YES. If the bushies are not diverted from their present course then it will not matter who becomes president, the draft will be here again. But no deferments this time. Boys and girls both. Why, because bush cheney and the never to be sufficiently damned neocons want a return of the cold war. Their sponsors, the very military industrial complex that Ike warned us about back in the 50's, wants us back were we are once more spending trillions on new weapons. So, whoever becomes president will have to raise taxes by a lot, or we continue massive deficit spending, or both. Either way, we are back with the possibility of total nuclear holocaust once more. I grew up with that and spent my military years as a part of the nuclear umbrella, I have no deside for my grandchildren to grow up with it.
JimboSlice @ 26:
euthyfro @ 30:
Ignorance abounds ...
Get your facts straight. Bush NEVER won a presidential election. My generation (boomers) has more far more registered democrats than republicans than either the X or Y generations. Last I noticed, it was the Republican party in lockstep with the Congressional Military Industrial Complex that bankrupted the environment, the economy and America's standing in the world while keeping us mired in endless wars.
My generation has done NONE of the things you accuse "us" of - it is the US Government, as run by corporate interests, that has given all of us these blessings. Not everyone over 50 is your enemy. Not everyone under 30 needs to grow a brain, but far too many do.
If young people today had the threat of imminent deportation to a hot war zone hanging over their heads they would be far less complacent about their political responsibility. That would be a GOOD thing. If you are offended by my characterization of the Y generation then it probably hits a little too close to home ...
“I don’t know what would make a draft happen unless we were in an all-out World War III.”
Well, considering that WWIII would last all of an hour, maybe an hour and a half, with the end game resulting in large piles of radioactive ash spread all over the earth, I guess there wouldn't be much time for your draft, Senator McDumbass...
AtroBean @ 94:
Spare us your faulty generalizations and condescending judgment please. If you really want to change the world for the better, stop blaming others and try doing something redemptive. And the only thing our country gave me was an opportunity, beyond that, I fairly earned everything I have---just like millions of us did. Try it yourself instead of being such a crybaby.
raye @ 92:
Bad attitudes come from self centered people like you who blame others rather than choosing to do something redemptive. Stop copping out and get with the program, whiner. Your attitude creates your reality.
AtroBean @ 94:
Just what did this country "give" them? Many boomers lost a lifetime of accumulated retirement money (as well as their jobs) in corporate and banking scandals and are now working the aisles at WALMART. Many are supporting or partially supporting live-at-home children who can't earn enough to live independently in the richest nation in history. Many volunteer or participate in non-government community programs. After of lifetime of paying taxes many can't afford to live on their benefits, or even afford proper health care ...
LOL, the overfed and undereducated youth will learn when it is their turn. Bitch and moan all you want, but whatever you do DON'T do anything about it!
Noah @ 102:
[Deleted. Abusive. Keep it civil, please. Thank you. Site Monitor]
You sound scared, you should be scared, everyone should, the country's going to have to learn to start dealing with these issues as a part of life kind of like breathing. If you don't participate you won't have ANY say.
And yeah us boomers sure have done our bit to put us where we are, but you ain't had your chance to screw up yet kid so don't go pointing fingers until you've had your turn in the barrel. My advice, is to, shut the fuck up, learn from our mistakes, and our parents and their parents and their parents mistakes, and do what you can to do to change things for the better. After all we're too old.
Funny, when euthyfro says it it's an acceptable "rallying cry", I understand your response to my statement, but shouldn't both be censored. Frankly I doubt he or she would have the nerve to say it to anyone in person, old or young. All I ask for is a level playing field; censor all or censor none.
John McCain seems to have, over the past 4 years, slowly been morphing into a Cheney/Bush combination being. Who the hell is he anymore? I would have voted for him in 2000 if Bush hadn't screwed him out of the nomination, but now he represents everything I can't stand in Washington. As the mother of a draft age son, I pray to God this guy doesn't win the election in November, if he does, God save us all, it will be 4 more years of the Bush administration, and maybe even worse.
Login or Register to post comments.