VP Debate: Maddow and Buchanan Rate Palin's Performance
By Nicole Belle Thursday Oct 02, 2008 8:10pm
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MSNBC goes to the strange bedfellows tag team of Rachel Maddow and Pat Buchanan to give the post-mortem on the performance of the Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin. I'm reminded of my reaction to the first presidential debate. I had been disappointed in Obama's performance, noting far too many opportunities to score points not taken by Obama. John Amato reminded me that it's not the decideds like me for whom Obama performed; it was the undecideds. Similarly, Maddow's and Buchanan's perceptions mirror exactly how the Palin's performance will strike the decideds on both sides of the fence: Maddow found her scripted, lacking in genuine emotion and light on substance. Buchanan responded to her viscerally, caring neither for her flubs nor her lack of details, but just finding her stimulating through her attractiveness.
But will it sway the undecideds? According to the CNN poll, it looks like substance won over folksiness:
Fifty-one percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job in Thursday night's debate, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job.
But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent.
Both candidates exceeded expectations - 84 percent of the people polled said Palin did a better job than they expected, while 64 percent said Biden also exceeded expectations.
But on the question of the candidates' qualifications to assume the presidency, 87 percent of the people polled said Biden is qualified while only 42 percent said Palin is qualified.
So perhaps Rachel wrapped it up correctly: "Boring, But Right" versus "Exciting, But Wrong." That’s America’s choice.
Transcripts below the fold
GREGORY: Rachel I want to start with you. Low expectations going in, for Governor Palin, that we can establish; we can stipulate that. Did she exceed them?
MADDOW: She met the...I would say, she met the expectations in terms of not being willing to discuss policy, not being willing to discuss too much substance or detail. The question , really, for me, was whether she was going to meet the higher expectations on personality and poise...that, I actually think she didn't meet those expectations. She was certainly very...folksy, but almost in a frenetic, cartoonish, gimmicky way. And I will tell you the two moments in which I thought came across as almost a little bit mean, rather than likeable. And one was when she told Joe Biden, ‘your joke was lame, nobody got it.' And it was a sort of depressing moment and the other one was when Joe Biden choked up. Joe Biden is an emotional guy; we've all seen him cry in speeches. He does it and when he referenced having not known whether his child was going to pull through, obviously referencing his sons having been injured and having lost his daughter in that car accident so long ago at the beginning of his political career. She responded by talking about John McCain as a Maverick in a talking points, forced, unsympathetic, unemotional, sort of inhuman way. And so I think when you pair that with that sort of gimmicry of the folksiness, the winking at the camera and all the rest of it, it actually seemed she was portraying a character, rather than portraying somebody you might like to spend time with.
GREGORY: I'll let you bring in Pat. You two talk amongst yourselves. Pat, your take?
BUCHANAN: My take is that Sarah Palin was sensational tonight. She not only met the expectations, I think she wiped up the floor with Joe Biden, quite frankly. She is personable, she is young. She's got a sense of humor. She looked straight into the camera while Joe's talking to Gwen all evening long. I thought she didn't make a mistake, not a footfault in the whole thing. And the people asked about does she have the details to answer the questions? I was astonished at how well she did. I sat with some Democratic ladies who were astonished at how well she was doing. I'll tell you this, David, there are some conservatives and Republicans across America who are not only breathing a sigh of relief because yes, as was said before this show by Mr. Fineman, we were nervous. I think she has done a sensational job and I think she has recaptured that magic she had out there at the convention. And she is dead right. She should stay away from these filters, sitting down with these people, getting into her face. She is terrific at what she did here. And I can tell you I think the McCain campaign, given the economic problems, I don't know if they can turn this around, but if it can be turned around, I think she has done it, in the sense of of the four debaters that we've seen , she was the most interesting, attractive of them all.
MADDOW: Pat, Pat, Pat, do you think that it matters that she was referencing "Gen. McClellan" as being in charge in Afghanistan? I mean, I'm assuming she's talking about the Civil War general there, I mean, it's Gen. McKiernan. Does it matter that she talked about expanding the role of the vice presidency, for coming out of Cheney, having essentially been universally viewed in the country as having expanded the powers of the vice presidency beyond their natural reach.
BUCHANAN: I think this is picayune to be very honest. I mean, look, generals' names...somebody mentioned Shi'a there, I'm not sure if it's Shi'a or Sunni we should be talking about. Take a look at the overall impression of an hour and a half of folks listening to this. She was riveting! Joe is, excuse me, remor...he is boring. He was relentless, remorseful. John McCain this, John McCain that. Look at how many charges of dumb things John McCain did...there must have been twenty...a hundred and fifty! Nobody could keep track...
MADDOW: Boring, But Right versus Exciting, But Wrong. That's America's choice.
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Sarah Palin is just the new face of a Republican Party that has nothing for America.
I was struck by how she noted with glee, "the chant, is 'drill, baby, drill'", after Biden said all McCain has is "drill, drill, drill". I think she really thought that was a "gotcha". It just made her look like a vapid cheerleader with no sense for rhetorical flourish.
Interesting to see Pat Blinkers talking for the masses there ........... a truly frightening display of myopic ignorance.
If Joe had said "doggone it" and "you betcha" while winking at the camera he would beat Palin in the likability category as well.
She's as fake as she is dangerous.
I'd like to take Rachel's last explanation to the next logical place, as it works for Obama: Exciting, And Right !
Holy mooseburgers. Pat Buchanan hasn't gotten any in a long time I suspect. "Interesting and attractive"? You gotta be kidding me. This man is an idiot. I will never listen to anything he has to say ever again.
Ruthless People @ 5:
Would be interesting to figure out which was more so ....... I get the feeling we'll find out, thats more of the issue !
I believe most intellectual and moral positions taken by the left ARE superior. Which doesn't mean shit if you are holding those positions while being prosecuted for simply getting a blowjob or getting investigated by the Department of Reich Security because you eat tofu instead of meat.
That camera man needs to figure out how to hold the camera steady. I'd like to see Pat get up and walk around behind the desk because it looks like a lot of heavy shit just waiting to fall on his head.
Translation of what Pat said: She kept to the script without falling off the homecoming float, she won the debate!
biden's kids looked bright and poised, palin's, not so much.
So what if she has no idea what the Vice President does? She winked at me!
The reason she is so popular is she's the only candidate who resembles ordinary Americans, their beliefs and lifestyle.
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
Yes I know shocking.
But it's true.
Professor Wagstaff @ 13:
Hey, she winked at me, too, gosh darn it!
Mike V. @ 16:
Ah'd like ta have a Buffalo Burger, and a few beers with that gal!
tr @ 12:
Like the footage of Joe's son going off to Iraq compared to Palin's son at the GOP convention who was going to Iraq. Joe's son looked poised and confident. Palin's son looked shell shocked as if he was being shipped off against his will for his Mom's political career.
She speaks to the weak minded GOP bottom feeders who only care about her pretty hair and her winking at them. That's the Bush Base. the bottom 20% who lick windows as a hobby.
Unfortunately, most people vote on the basis of likability, not substance.
What's interesting is it's the same people who say they "know" Sara Palin (even though they'd never heard of her before the RNC) that say they just don't know enough about Obama. It's not like they haven't seen and heard of him enough for the last four years or could be bothered to read one or both of his books. Their skepticism just doesn't pass the racism smell test.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Yeah, I just shot a wolf, dontcha know. And that's my little friend over there in the wood chipper!
"He was relentless, remorseful. John McCain this, John McCain that. Look at how many charges of dumb things John McCain did…there must have been twenty…a hundred and fifty! Nobody could keep track…
So he doesn't see what is so, so wrong with this statement? The reason he said there's so many things wrong with John McCain is because ... there are actually so many things wrong with John McCain and hence it might be a problem if he is elected for that very reason ...
palin thinks her ancesters used to hunt dinosaurs. ordinary americans are not millionaires with houses on a lake with an airplane parked in back.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Win or Loose this election the fact that 40% of Americans support this ticket is making us, once again, the laughing stock with the Europeans, our allies and our enemies. Noting or no one can shame America like the GOP.
Wow! Buchanan falls for the winky-winky stuff hmmm. Rachael didn't. He's so mezmerized with the flirty-flitty he's ready to let her take over Cheney's role and let whoever it is for whom she's the sock puppet run the country as a dictator. I found it interesting that hidden behind the flirty stuff was a condescending monster. We'll see what we can do with a little of this flexibility. She just spilled the beans right there. If she'd redecorate the Wasilla Mayor's office for $50,000 without getting aproval from the Council and then when confronted with it says "I'll do what I want until a court tells me I can't!" ---well folks, now we know she just like Bush/Cheney. It was all right there staring us in the face.
It would be interesting to see how she responds to different types of reporters-- find out which stereotypes of reporters she starts flirting with. When does she turn it on, when does she turn it off. Does it have anything to do with the questions? Does it have anything to do with the reporter's looks?
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Welcome to how the world sees the average and typical US person .......... because it is true, it's not shocking.
Professor Wagstaff @ 21:
Their just animals to Goops. (GOPers) Put here by God for shootin' and eatin'
Shan @ 22:
Yeah, I wish Biden would have ignored the questions and instead told boring stories droning on and on about what how he would have done things if he had been a mayor of a small town in the middle of nowhere.
Buchanan: "She wiped the floor with Biden."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.............
Only a guy with a raging hard-on for the sexy librarian type would come to that idiotic conclusion....
Ruthless People @ 24:
Ditto.
Though that the rest of the world thinks Obama is the lesser of two evils is exactly what the GOP want and expect as the vast majority of voters in the US will let their over inflated pride get in the way with the attitude off "You can't tell me what to do, I'm an americon .... I'm going to do the opposite just to spite you ........ ra ra ra".
As for a laughing stock, it's been that way for quite a while and *even* if Obama gets in, that isn't going away over night (if at all I'd say).
Jerry @ 26:
Shocking to some not me. There's every type in my extended family. Lib to Redneck
Americas biggest problem is we are war with each others values and lifestyles.
Van @ 29:
Not that conservatives care what Americans think but Pat is out of sinc with Americans polled by a 2-1 margin on that one.
Okay, I'm not trolling, I'm a Obama/Biden voter.. So take this one with grain of granola before you get all ridiculously high and righteous: I thought she played like a harp from heaven to her 28%'ers. Joe should have/could have interupted and nailed her to a cross so many times but he never did, he just smiled (and looked at her figure). Sure, what she said was insipidly stupid and nonsense but, she said it and was once in a while tamely challenged in a response and never once interupted mid-lie. You all belong to the Obama chorus too, of course you can see through her total bullshit. Why did Biden get 51% credit to "winning"? Because hockey mom here pwned him completely with her base and perhaps to some clueless indepedents as well. Again, they were talking about education when she said Nukuler the first time. Why didn't Biden immediately call her on that one? Why can't people speak English when talking about educating our children in America?! I'm sorry, I'm no Palin fan but Biden had a teethy smile (while staring at her tits) but absolutely no debate teeth. Palin didn't flinch.
It's Oct 3rd. We're due for a surprise.
The more I think back on that moment when she gave a flirty little flip of the head and a smirk and suggested that if she and Johnny got elected that they'd be seeing if they couldn't use a little bit of that "flexibility" (of the definition of the vice-president's role) to bring along some of the policy agenda's of the Republicans... I had this strange sense that.... she had the ring, "my precious! It's Mine! All Mine!" The glint of power that was to come to her was in her eye. At any second she was going to have a Froddo moment. And people like Buchanan were telling themselves how cute and sexy and harmless she was. It was really quite amazing.
and the unwashed masses will more than likely go for exciting and wrong, that is just how they roll.
Van @ 29:
Once again going back to why she's there in the first place, who she is going to appeal to and why they are going to vote for her.
As we all know it has nothing to do with what people say in US politics; it's all about how they can ingratiate themselves to peoples emotions by playing their own perception against them (or more so fear of late).
That against a population mostly lacking basic critical thinking skills (likely due to a devastated educational system and being mentally drowned in consumerism) ........ and you get the likes of Bush and many of the common held beliefs of the electorate.
And why it's likely McPain will pull this off at the last moment, typical "Oh no we didn't rig it" 51/49% style .........
bilhelm-X @ 33:
i didn't see joe's smile and stare, but if he did, he put palin in perspective. it seems like a good technique for un-nerving someone like palin.
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
You mean "popular with her base" , a group who would embrace Son of Sam if he said he'd lower corporate taxes, repeal Roe v. Wade and protect them from all the boogeymen that they've invented . You know ; idiots . Ordinary Americans simply want what FDR gave them and Eisenhower nutured : hope and prosperity .
Those vp's sure love war.
Democracy Now! talked to the other candidates today. Their positions on every issue are much more reasonable.
Third Party VP Candidates Matt Gonzalez and Rosa Clemente Respond to Biden-Palin Debate
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/3/third_party_vp_candidates_matt_gon...
[Sorry, the link got it stuck in the spam filter! Site Monitor]
With all the post-debate analysis that's been going on, I'm surprised that apparently nobody yet has pointed out how Dukakis-like Palin was following Biden's moment of intensity talking about his family.
And it had been bothering me for a while to see Buchanan all over MSNBC every hour night and day until I realized the obvious -- there aren't enough reactionary conservatives to go around anymore.
America...inching back toward sanity.
bilhelm-X @ 33:
If either Biden or Awfill had treated her as callously as they would have had she NOT been God's MILF, she would have scored points on being persecuted.
As it was she couldn't "lose" because the bar for her success was set sol ow a skinny cockroach couldn't have scuttled under it. Even if she'd committed some really monstrous gaffe, she'd have been immune. She's a "MOM!" you know. Theat's right behind--or mebbe the equivalent of-- being a "POW" in the hagiography of Murkin's cherished myths.
L.A. Confidential @ 31:
Indeed, the US has never been known for (or ever will) humility or acceptance; it always takes the short sighted, weak and easy option of abuse (political, physical, religious, fiscal, etc) ......... while at the same time (which is the bit that pisses everyone else off around the world who is just getting on with their lives) telling everyone how amazing you are and that you're so perfect etc ........ the irony is outstanding.
Will always be the way of short lived falling empires focused on themselves to the exclusion of everything.
buchanan: "She should stay away from these filters, sitting down with these people, getting into her face."
yep, responding to a reporter asking questions is a real tough one.
worse yet, what is she going to do at a white house press conference?
worst of all, what is she going to do when she has to sit down with maddow?
iraqconcilable @ 39:
The years have proved overwhelmingly the latter is the former in that statement.
If the ordinary american cared, they would vote and take an interest and more importantly responsibility, something the individuals and country as a whole rejects and is devoid off. Voter turn out in the US compared with other western countries is sorely lacking (especially for a country that "claims" to be a shining city on the hill of democracy ......... disgusting attitude and behavior really).
I'm very concerned about this election and even though Obama has a slight lead in the polls, I have a sinking feeling when the time actually comes for people to go into that booth to vote, too many of them are going to select McCain.
For the life of me, I can't get my head around how so many Americans can be so naive and clueless to not see through the mediocrity that is McCain/Palin. I am equally dumbfounded by all the positive spin the media is giving her performance in the debate for merely being likable.....are you kidding me!!???
Palin really put her beauty pageant experience to use in the debate (smile, stare through the camera, wink), all that was missing was the beauty pageant wave.
I know all the regulars and then some know this already:
Palin is getting campaign information from newspapers? Wait! She actually does read them! Maybe she found a paper in the airplane seat pocket and was already bored having read the in-flight magazine and used all the barf bags to play tic-tac-toe. I digress....
L.A. Confidential @ 27:
Lol, "Goops"
I think Biden won hands down (duh), but there were two elements that bothered me:
1) I think he must have taken some lessons from the Bob Shrum FUBAR school of debate flops, because some of those monologues near the beginning where he went on and on talking about exact dollar amounts for this, and insider Washington terms for that, were just dreadful and why he was sounding dry and old compared to Miss Glittering Generality.
Thank God he finally knocked that shit off and let the emotional side of himself come through because that's when he really commanded the stage and made her look like the doofus she is.
2) Twice, TWICE, Palin busted into her folksy ol' talking point of "Oh shucks, silly government, why doncha' just step outta the way now and let the private side do whatever it wants..." and Biden didn't touch it either time!! :(
That was such a wide, huge, gaping moment of vulnerability where he could have pointed out how that venerable mantra of Republicanism has sunk us into the anal raping of the taxpayer through which we are currently suffering. Biden could have made an incredibly moral stand for the role of gov't in protecting its citizens right then and there. Coulda been a moment worth a hundred ads.
Palin told Fox today that Obama should be disqualified from being POTUS:
“Some of his comments that he has made about the war that I think may in my world disqualifies someone from consideration as the next commander in chief. Some of his comments about Afghanistan and what we are doing there supposedly– just air raiding villages and killing civilians. That’s reckless."
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/03/cameron-interviews-post-debat...
Nicole--- I love you and I love this site. But please use correct English, grammar, and structure. Damn, that is why we assault Palin.
bilhelm-X @ 33:
She got beat in the polling after this one. She played well to the base, but the base shriveled up in the last few years of the Stupor Mundi administration.
And Biden didn't pounce on her for "nukuler" or any other such bullshit because he couldn't come across as condescending or patronizing. That would have played right into her hands- mean old senator picks on spunky hockey mom. I applaud Joe for holding back, too, 'cause you know he could have really gone off on her.
Rachel Maddow just obliterated Nancy Pfotenhauer. (McCain campaign advisor) It's unbelievably refreshing to see someone simply refute rose colored talking points (or, lies) with the cold hard splash of reality.
kdw7197 @ 45:
Go to http://www.realclearpolitics.com for the most objective aggregate of polling numbers. Obama is WAY ahead, but we can't relax. Sign up at either Obama's site or http://www.moveon.org to get involved and make a difference. If you can't make a monetary donation, MoveOn has local phoning parties and even excursions into neighboring states that are toss ups.
It's all up to us! Don't sit back and wait and hope. If you want to win, do something.
Abbybwood @ 50:
And she's going to get more and more outrageous with these attacks. The whole bit about how she can come across the TV screen right into your home (like the movie "Videodrome" ???), I think they'll start pimping her as a fembot attack add.
Ok, I'm sure this has been mentioned. But what the HELL is up with the baby being on stage at all hours of the night??? Now, I realize I'm on the "Eastern" part of the United States (yep, an elitist) but COME ON. It was 10:30 here in PA (so it was 9:30 there I think???) Why is that baby on stage (ok I know why) but really. Enough.
Ok, I've settled on Yuengling Lager for the next debate. Not very elitist but it gets the job done!
Buchanan is not being intellectually honest. She not only did NOT win that debate, she came of as an empty head.
I found it amusing how she pronounced "nuclear" (oh side story - gave a speech in 9th grade about submarines and the teacher fucking called me out in front of the class that I was pronouncing it "nuk-u-lar" - thanks teacher! That one's burned in my brain but trust me I pronounce it right now!) but she said the president of Iran's name oh-so-perfectly!!!!
What freaking planet is Buchanan on? What a lunatic. He must be sex-starved too.
Rachel Maddow, as always, is superb.
Pat's sister thought she was "amzing" and (can't quote this one, don't remember the exact words) she won hands down.
I have long had the feeling that if Charles Manson was running on a Republican ticket, Bay Buchannen would tell us what a great humanitarian Charlie is.
Buchanan, you're on drugs. Maddow just wiped the floor with you.
seriously @ 57:
It is sad. I saw that and thought to myself that this woman is not even qualified to be a mother.
BTW, the only thing elitest about the east coast is Martha's Vineyard. You're doing just fine.
Buchanan truly is a sad old sack of manure these days.
GonzoD @ 60:
no doubt that bay would compliment manson on his body art.
ciloisin @ 63:
Whaddyamean "these days?"
Pat's been like that for as long as I can remember.
REPUBLICANS PANDERING THE PORNO VOTE. LMAO!!!!
McCain early today. Wow did ya see her?... Boy Can I Pick'em...UUHHH!!!! YEAH!!! B-A-R-A-C-U-D-A (chickadown-chiaadowdownnnn...). WINK WINK.
BUCHANAN: She's hot!!! Fellas Yo??? ERRR BAUDY-IN-A-CLUB-GETIN-TIPSAY???? CHICK-A-DOWN-CHICK-A-DOWN-DOWN!!!
SHE'S AS GOOD A COMUNICATOR AS REAGAN. Fay Buchanan said that on Larry king not
long a go.
WTF is GOIN ON??????
I can't stop LMAO!!!!
The REPUBLICAN PARTY looks like a bunch-a-monkies FU-KIN A FOOTBALL... THIS IS GREAT!!!...LMAO!!!!!
tr @ 64:
ROFLMAO!
McGrampa's Barbie was a sad, pathetic Stepford Wife robotic fool. Maybe the redneck
trailer trash "Joe sixpack" sheeple swallowed her swill, but people with actual brains saw through the crap.
kit wilson @ 68:
Thats the exact plan, and given the % of the sheeple and few with brains in the US hence why the GOP walks it.
Independents have weighed in:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/biden_won_indepe...
Good job Joe!
Larry King's show tonight was quite lively and entertaining. I can't stand LK but every once in a while he has some fiery guests on his show. There were four of them tonight, two from each side, and the discussion quickly got hot.
Larry, poor thing, had trouble keeping them in line. What a laugh!
Professor Wagstaff @ 13:
I've seen enough silly winking for the past 8 years from W. No more winking!
Why do people listen to the spin room when the spin room is all about spinning the truth so the lie can be believable???????????
McPale's Navy @ 62:
In Newark here - lots of elitists in this town..
SO TO SQUARE IT.... Palin WRONG but EXCITING Biden RIGHT but dull
McCAIN WRONG and erratic OBAMA RIGHT and EXCITING
i know this is a leap..... HOW ABOUT THIS TIME WE GO WITH .....RIGHT.....
and when necessary to find exciting, we can get a crotch shot of Brit, Paris, and the others in the Crack Pack
McPale's Navy @ 70:
Maddow as usual is right on. She is quickly becoming one of the most astute commentators on the political scene since Frank Rich. Her review of Palin's performance captured it perfectly and I didn't hear it from anyone else.
Personally I felt Palin's performance was similar to that of a news anchor. The way she loosely played to the camera was not only unpresidential but very much felt like she was delivering a cheap TV broadcast
WE ALL LOVE A LITTLE BUSH @ 75:
maybe Obama can find some hot white chicks to flesh out his cabinet. Would that work for you rednecks?
If you look close enough you could actually see Pat Buchannan's boner on teevee (Roger Simon on Hardball, too). Everything Palin said was a scripted, memorized talking point and these guys (should) know it, they are not novices - "...wiped up the floor with Joe Biden" - puh-leese!!
I think this about sums it up.
http://i33.tinypic.com/aob6sk.jpg
I don't know what Buchanan was smoking during the debate but I didn't see anything like what he described. Palin looked more like she was running as a contestant on a beauty pageant than she was for Vice President. Buchanan and many others may find her down home, folksy ways cute and great for public consumption but I can guarantee that foreign leaders will see right through that farce and use her for everything they can get.
Moonglum @ 79:
How very true.
Buchanan the old Nazi, Gruppenführer wannabe was astonished. He was probably most astonished at how tangled up his shorts got lusting after Mooselini.
Now there is a hideous thought. Little Buchanan/Mooselini creatins. Something straight out of the FLY.
I don't use the word hate lightly, but I'm really, really starting to hate Palin.
When McCain told Palin they were pulling out of Michigan, did he have to point it out to her on a map?
Or did she ask "who's she?"
Buchanan obviuously had a hard-on watching Palin. He is being the same idiot that he's always been. He is a racist and upset about the possibility of a black man becoming the president of the United States.
Sarah Palin shwoed all the Knowledge and all the wisdom of the lord. ( I - think - I - heard - this - shit - before!?@!???) I mean look... she kept her Down syndrome infant up all night for a Photo Op. I mean HEY!! H-E-L-L-O-O-O-O-O!!! She really knows what the LORD wants. I for one can't wait for the inquisition!!!!
Spinning is fun!
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
I think what puzzles me most is that she is being embraced by the 'party of family Values', while having a knocked up teenager.
When the McCain campaign begs Pat Buchanan to be their cheerleader, you know they're getting desperate.
If you listen to the way Buchanan described Palin's performance you would think this was some sort of talent show like American idol. Palin's cute little dog and pony show works wonders on people like Buchanan but many veteran politicians around the globe will see right through it.
whitetrash1 @ 85:
You do realize that many people say that Joe Biden is a racist.
I agree with some other posters: Buchanan just wants to get into Palin's cooter.
afterburner @ 91:
So does Bay.
Joe O. @ 89:
I would also add that Palin's performance will do nothing for those mostly male foreign leaders who already look down upon women in general. To them, Palin will be seen as a play thing and not to be taken seriously. If Palin wants to be taken seriously on the world stage then she would be wise to take notes from Hillary Clinton, Condi Rice or Angela Merkel for example. Those are women that know the issues and know how to lead in their own way.
Why do they still pay Buchanan for his opinions? The clown will defend anything - anything - favorably to neocon/republican. He'll defend the notion of an elephant riding a donkey at Pimlico but lambast a donkey riding an elephant.
Miro @ 35:
Biden missed a chance to inform the bee-hived adolescent that not only was flexibility re the VP's constitutional responsibilities not on the table but also that he was going to direct the Dept. of Justice to gather up and charge any and all of the criminals in the Bush administration -- including the moronic, lying, demented, gibberish-spewing, prodigal, psychotic simian warmonger, Dubya -- with the crimes that they have committed. In addition, he should have added that NONE of those charged would have a right to a lawyer nor be made aware of the charges that were being laid against them. Too bad.
I'm shocked by analysis of some Americans, come on are you really serious? I thought Palin was embarrassing, she is not running for a secretary job of a CEO. she is running as Vice President, and she can be a president... I didn't see anything impressed me, I expected her to do better actually, she was a governor, and a mayor, yet he style of speaking is below average educated person, she seems not to know a lot of information, and she in fact did not answer many questions, she seemed to be nervous and tried to overcome her nervousness.
Those who say she was looking at the camera like if it is a big achievements are laughing at themselves. it's not a big deal to look at the camera, she might be looking at the camera because she is nervous of looking at the crowd or Biden or the moderator. Remember the camera is not the American people. Britney spears can look at the camera, Paris Hilton can look at the camera, you are not going to say they make a good VP . big deal. big joke
Folks remember she is running as VP. all those who rate what she did as best seems to forget that...
when palin was first announced, pat was all over mcoldman for the crazy stunt
now he praises palin every chance he can get
basically, the wingnuts dont care if the election is a joke, because to a man or woman, they hate this country
to them, this country is all about dollar signs and raw materials
they are all evil and must be rounded up, put in camps and waterboarded
After watching Pat Buchanan gush over Sarah Palin's performance, never again let it be said that only women can fake an orgasm.
calgarylady @ 71:
miller was the funniest, when she said that she would spend the evening winking at larry and spewing talking points
i dont know who that wingnut witch was who thought that stephanie was making fun of the way palin talks, not the substance, and then said, "we all talk like that in indiana"...then i guess indiana is a state of full retards
sarah palin is ted baxter with a pussy
she cant think outside of what is written on 3 by 5 index cards
when she learns a new word, she uses it innapropriatly to show how smart she is
and what was biden's biggest gaffe? no, it wasnt bozniacs....
no, it wasnt confusing article 1 and 2 of the constitution (the duties of the vp are enumerated in article 1...he was right, he never said that article 1 talks about the executive branch)
no, his only gaffe was allowing palin to lie about her record
i know that he did well in the polls, and was fearful of being labeled mean and a sexist, but when palin did that whole "you were before it before you were against it", joe needed to bring up the bridge to nowhere
when she talked about fiscal responsibilty and lowering taxes, joe needed to bring up that wasilla is 20 mil in the hole, because of her mismangement
abarts @ 90:
Many people would be very wrong if they think that!
Rachel's sound bite of analysis: "Boring but right; Exciting versus wrong" is a good bite for opinon journalism. For the future of our country......not so much.
I'm of the female persuasion, so I find very little attractive or exciting about Sarah (hell, I'm 60 and I have better legs than she does!), and I've always thought Joe Biden was attractive and smart, though he depends on charm a little too much himself.
In the political sphere, I'll take right > intelligent, educated, erudite, worldly, experienced, passionate, concerned, caring, understanding, and knowledgeable about the Constitution, the process, and international relations -
any day, over exciting > which in this case apparently means, younger, female, former beauty queen runner-up, brash, no-nothing, barely-educated, sarcastic, mean, negligent mother of five (or four, depending).
There are too many important issues that need to be handled in the next little while - issues that literally mean life of death for a whole bunch of folks her and around the globe. Give me Boring and Right - or at least thoughful and expereinced!!!!
abarts @ 90:
You do realize that many people can see that you are full of horse manure.
America is peering into the abyss these days. George W. Bush warns that the entire American economy is in danger. “Millions of Americans could lose their jobs.” And how is the world reacting? With fear, with indignation, but also with glee and a certain amount of barely disguised Schadenfreude. As Brazil’s President Lula da Silva said when asked about the financial crisis, “What crisis? Go ask Bush about that.”
Anger is taking over. Hadn’t the United States preached the blessings of the free market to the whole world? Didn’t they demonize every attempt at government regulation only to now find themselves putting giant mortgage investment banks and insurers under government control?
But the anger has deeper roots. It flared up first when Bush’s “war on terror” suddenly ignored national borders. It flared up when the President invaded Iraq in defiance of international law, and when he built that shameful prison camp in Guantanamo. From that anger came bewilderment when America started arguing about the legitimacy of torture. That country wasn’t “our” country any longer.
And now, saving the worst for last, as Wall Street bankers descend into ruin, they are pulling us down with them at dizzying speed and amid deep fear of repeating the Great Depression of 1929.
I bet Pat got a boner, non-Viagra assisted, just talking about her.
Rachel gets it but there is a great post at abcparty.org titled "Today I Weep for America" that basically wonders how anyone - even the Pat Buchanan's of the world - can honestly and genuinely believe Palin did well in the debate.
Ruthless People @ 5:
What I've been wondering of late is the degree to which Palin's debating skills and speaking abilities reflect fundamentalist "Christian" practices. She's never really explained much using rational thought or logic or facts. She typically uses pointless anecdotes and cliches to support her beliefs. "Putin rearing his head" and so forth.
That seems, to me at least, to reflect much of the rightwing "Christian" mentality of adhering to the authority of what you are told in church without letting pesky critical thought get in the way. It's all tied into a belief in biblical literalism and infallibility. Palin's happy talk, her pointless chatter, while annoying and unfocused to most Americans, is exactly the kind of stuff to which rightwingers have been acclimated. When Palin told Couric that she'd have to check and get "back to ya" regarding examples of McCain being a reformer, most of us saw it for what it was: A dodge.
However, there is an unthinking part of society that put the best possible spin on what Palin said entirely due to the fact that she is one of them. As long as they know that she, too, partakes of the happy talk in church of the sort that testifies to the strength and power of the Lord in her life, she can babble endlessly and they are not bothered.
I wonder about the mental and emotional weakness of such people. Not everyone who believes in a religion has that same degree of gullibility. And yet the fundamentalist "Christians" have allowed themselves to be bled of all thinking skills, almost to the point of being brainwashed. How else to explain the beliefs that some people have that Palin would make a great VP? They have absolutely no sound foundation on which to base that belief.
I read a post somewhere in which a rightwinger said that Palin's college hopping was actually evidence that she was a real go-getter, and that she was really bright and committed to getting her degree. Now, sit any rational person down and ask what he thought about someone who transferred five times in six years and that person would probably make the sign of the fruit loop around his ear.
With rightwingers, though, there is a sort of exceptionalism that says their people can positively do no wrong, ever, and that anything that may seem dodgy if it were done by a liberal is actually a sign of strength if done by a fundamentalist "Christian."
My take on the GOP message with Palin........
Why does the GOP only like beautiful women? That seems to be the message they keep floating. During the debate why did Palin wink and turn around? Was all of that to promote her sex appeal to men? It seems that the GOP’s beliefs and message says that when a woman is a candidate issues do not matter, the real priority is does she look good and can she follow orders. Is this the reason why the GOP spent so much time on the message that Hillary was old and ugly?
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
You know what, stupid, the VP( and possibly the president) shouldn't be just an "ordinary" american, that's how the last guy portrayed himself and he didn't have a clue. We need extraordinarily smart, calm with the ability to make sound judgements, I want knowledge not a wink and "you betcha, Joe six pack, it would take at least a six pack to stomach her!
typical mccain. he likes palin, so he thought women would like a woman candidate not realizing that he would only gain Pat Buchanan's vote which he already had.
the men like palin way more than other women. like duh.
DC @ 107:
it's a trophy VP thing.
I think Pat B. has lost it! No, she didn't fall on her face but for gosh sakes, the woman was following prepared answers, she is good at speeches like at convention, written for her and on a teleprompter, that's why for days after she was stumping and gave the same speech over and over, does Pat really think so little of this country and its citizens that she is the best we deserve or has he been taken in my an attractive woman? Frankly, I prefer substance and authentic knowledge, especially , in these very difficult times. I suggest Pat Buchanan take a cold shower!
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 97:
I find Pat B to get funnier and funnier with every week. He luvs SP but he's still ranting about McCain. He did so today on Tweety's show. It was hilarious to listen to him just bellow away about it.
Enlightening to see Buchanan falling all over himself to praise Mrs Palin. It seems she is a likable sort one would like to have a drink with - haven't we fallen for this blather twice before? I want an ugly crow who will not say one thing then do another once in office. Look at Palin's Alaska record for pete's sake. Gosh darn it!
Related: KO's takedown of creepy Lowry's comments.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZw1_lDcxo
CrooksandLiars, you perturb me. You act as if there should be a debate between Biden's answers and Palin's answers. They were both disgraceful.
Palin definitely connected with the American people, but she spoke in glittering generalities; Biden spoke in specifics, yet all of his specifics were entirely wrong.
Yet, despite this, both of these candidates are better than their superiors...god bless Biden as a Prez candidate (I supported Gravel, then Kucinich, then Biden), but he should be on top. So should Palin (best non-Clinton communicator since Reagan)
Andy K @ 52:
I understand, if this were a city council spot I could imagine such tact might be prudent although, not really? This idiot has been nominated for VP, she should never be above nor beyond the tiniest amount of scrutiny. In that respect Obama/Biden played right into their bullshit instead of cutting the bs down then explaining that running for the #2 spot in the highest position of the land is a serious matter. I can't help but think that letting her get away with his and her bullshit doesn't serve to bolster him and her. When did honest truth become America's political deficit? Republicans are the scum of the earth, lying dishonest thieving incompetents, let it ring from hillside to hillside already! What does somebody need, an ingraved invitation?!!
Tommy Gunn @ 115:
What are you smoking?
She makes my ears bleed. I can't decide if its the horrible accent with her fake beauty-queen persona or the cognitive dissonance.
I to keep saying this but the CORPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA is out to slowly to turn Bidans win to a Palin win, and they are doing it. I watch as much of CNN as my stumich could stand and WOLF-E boy was at turning it into win for Palin, then came Gleen Beck(BREEDER) and then you have this Gregory,Buchanan, just falling all over them selves over Palin and her WINK. Only Maddow was speaking with a CLEAR mind. Where was Olberman, on MSMBC. and Jack Cafferty on CNN (FOX'S sister station) . Be very carefull of this MODERATOR of this Debate Between Obama and McCain next week, for he is in McCains pocket ,and you can check that out and find out that is TRUE.
Is it true that Todd's business partner ended his affair with Sarah because "she was faking it?"
If this was the MISS AMERICA pagent then I agree with putz Buchanan Sarah won
Tommy Gunn @ 115:
Stop using CON catch phrases and tell me where his specifcs were wrong and I will show where Sarah was wrong .
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/10/03/factcheck-org-... Read this TommyGunn
Buchanan puzzles me! Sometimes he can be a brain. Today he is just fucking dumb ass. Lord, give strengh to endure these jackasses!
DC @ 107:
I'd say that is pretty much it. The GOP doesn't like a strong willed woman. They like women that they can dominate and control and Palin fits that image perfectly. We have to remember that many Conservatives and members of the GOP usually are cowards so it makes perfect sense that they would want a clueless woman like Palin that they can dominate. It makes them feel "manly".
Sarah Palin riveting? Give me a friggin break! Just goes to show you the contrast between an objective observer(Maddow) and someone like Buchanan who sounds like he wants to father Palin's next child.
I must confess that I don't get the whole "Sarah Palin is a great communicator" thing. Frankly, after a few minutes of her folksy delivery, I find her voice to be a bit like dragging ones fingers across a chalkboard.
Slick Sarah @ 120:
Unfortunately, that's just how many rednecks view it. And so what if "Miss America" makes the world a far more dangerous place, she's easy on the eyes (if you're used to toothless, overweight, red-eyed women as Pat likely is...or is it overweight boys; but that's another story). Meanwhile, if I was leading China or Russia, I'd have my military working on pre-emptive action in case Palin were ever to be sworn in...
steveb @ 125:
CNN had Soledad OBrian run a panel of "undecideds" who had those instant feeback dials during the debate. Apparently the trendlines when DOWN whenever Palin got folksey. I watched CNN quite a bit yesteday and never saw them air, or even refer to that panel again, which was in sharp contrast to the claims of all the pundints that "the average Amercan" was eating that phoney crap up.
How in the world did Rachel get saddled with Buchanan as her counterpart? The guy is a moron. There must be someone better to be bounce Rachel's beautiful mind off.
BUCHANAN: And she is dead right. She should stay away from these filters, sitting down with these people, getting into her face.
"Filters"? You mean newspapers, television, radio ?
"these people"? You mean journalists?
"getting into her face" You mean asking her questions?
Did anyone else notice that she was reading her answers?
Look at any clip of her speaking and see if she looks down on the lectern every couple of seconds. That was because she was reading her answers. The bitch was telling people she was talking to them because one of the idiot speach writers put it down or told her and she wrote it down, This woman cannot speak to people in a believeable manner in her own words. The reason for that is she is not genuine, she does not know anything about the things she is speaking about.
buchannon is just spouting the basic lie that is the republican parties standard operating procedure. They focas group a bunch of people with frank luntz, they find out what key words resonate, among the the group of people they want to influence, and then they set out to write sentances using those words that attract the unaware and dimwitted christian/conservative/believers. These people want to believe and that allows them to turn a blind eye to the realities of everything else that is happening.
A sad but efective strategy that they have used for many years with great success among these people!
republican= insanity!
Palin has electrolytes!
With each passing year, Pat B. become even "more" reprehensible". I doubt that he can listen to his Biased drivel" without smiling. He is, an intelligent person, who seems to be in a "reagan-esque" time warp. Get Gov't. out of "Gov't" time speak. It is "spokespersons /political pundits" like Pat that has "shaped" the "mindset" of the American populace in a manner that "allowed" the disasters, both political and financial, to occur. Why would ANY news organization allow this, obviously out-of-touch, opinion to be aired? We need to "re-evaluate" what OUR airwaves are permitted to air to us. Call biase, biase.
McPale's Navy @ 7:
That disgusting old lecher needs to be put out to pasture. he is so far from reality, its pathetic! What does interesting and attractive have to do with being a good vicepresident/president?? Its all superficial crap!
I have to question caribou barbie's mental status. Everything she said was said with a snarky little smirk. her folksy demeanor is just plain insulting to any person of intelligence. Im with Rachel with the winking crap.
With her folksiness, winking and smirk, she would be the last person I would want representing our country out in the world. she is a disgrace to this country.
PS: SHE'S A LOUSY MOTHER!! And thats what I dislike about her the most!
Sarah Palin Says Debate Went Well as Polls Favor Biden:
Republicans John McCain and Sarah Palin on Friday played up her debate performance as polls showed voters judging her Democratic rival, Joe Biden, to be the winner of the only vice presidential face-off of the campaign.
But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden’s 36 percent.
Of course she's more likable: she hasn't spent a whole lot of her lifetime in Washington, D.C. I'm reasonably certain that putting in a lot of time there brings one into contact with a whole bunch of non-likable people, and it can't help but rub off after a while.
But do I want to put her in the backup-President spot, so that when McCain eventually has a big enough anger episode to cause a fatal aneurism, the dreaded vacancy awaiting her finally comes to pass?
Heck, no.
Pat Buchannen is desperate he compared Sarah vs Joe and said she won because she was cuter I hope that Pat was more attracted to the MILF with the push up bra the slut wink at the camera and the six inch fuck me heels. The only other man who could compete against her would be Rudy. Pat said all Joe did was attack John McCain. This is true because every time Sarah open her mouth she regurgitated John McCain because she had nothing original to say. So Joe basically ignored Sarah and attacked what she said which was John McCain. The Republicans are upset because Joe didn't fall into the trap and attacked her Personally and loose a bunch of women votes.
Rosanne @ 133:
Me too. She is truly an awful mother. Everytime she pulled that "Mahm" shtick, I wanted to spit in her eye. Bristol's pregnancy, impending shotgun nuptials and use as a pawn in her mother's campaihn nothwithstanding, the fact that poor baby Trig is passed around like a football makes me ill. She looks like she doesn't even like that baby, and neither does First Dude. What was her wee daughter holding that child and futhermore, why were both Trig and the wee daughter up at that time of night? It was a school night for Christ's sake! You didn't see Sasha and Malia Obama on stage with their father after the Presidential debate, and that took place on a Friday.
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