Open Thread
By bluegal Thursday Nov 06, 2008 8:30pm
Recommended reading: "Red Sex, Blue Sex". The New Yorker's Margaret Talbot explores why so many evangelical teen-agers become pregnant, and why there is such a hypocritical acceptance of teen pregnancy within the evangelical community. And yeah, relying on "abstinence only" education is only part of the problem.
Open thread below...
Login or Register to post comments.
that's NOT easy i remember my frist time
children of preachers or other highly religious people are often the wildest ones in the room.
btw, has everyone seen tommy franks bitch-slapping of sean hannity?
it's awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSE_vpz7jKg
cheers
.
I have no idea what video you watched, but Sean was not (as you so eloquently put it)bitched slapped.
As for the sex issue, abstinence is indeed a good thing, the problems happen when peer pressure comes into play. Parents should be teaching sex ed at home. It is not the right of some stranger, teacher, etc... to be teaching the good and bad sides about sex. If parents are not educating their children in the home, this is where the flaw is.
There is no such thing as an accidental pregnancy. You were performing an act that has a specific intent, if that intent happens, then it was not an accident, it was designed to work accordingly, people just try to circumvent the design.
Abstinence doesn't work. Parents should have the birds and the bees talk with their children. Contraceptives should be allowed to young folks 18 and over. Parents should have a relationship with their children where they can talk openly about sex. And if need be parents should be able to provide contraceptives to their children.
If they decide it's warranted.
But that's not the real world is it?
Abstinence simply doesn't work. And never will.
You mentioned sex as a defined act. Yes, that's true.
But it is also a natural act. Hormones go raging through bodies.
Boys turn into young men, and they find out what that thing is for other than peeing.
Girls turn into young women, and They figure it out too.
It's as natural as the sun coming up. So abstinence will never work. That's an idea that some puritanical zealot came up with.
That's not how the human brain/body works.
without parental consent. In the population addressed by this report, there's very little actual back and forth between parents and children where the child's sexuality is actually addressed. Most of it is a parental "don't do it." So if these teenagers aren't getting permission from their parents to indulge in sexual activity, they sure won't get permission to use contraceptives.
It appears that few of these teenagers would use contraception even if it were available without parental consent, but they should have every opportunity to keep themselves free of parenthood until they are older.
When schools in the nearest large city started making condoms available, teen pregnancies dropped over 25%.
Some of these kids are getting pregnant to get Medicaid for themselves and food stamps for their families. The bitter truth is that most pink collar jobs provide no health insurance and that pregnancy gets the teen mama 18 years of coverage. Additionally, that little welfare check gets job training and placement, a step ahead of the pack in the lower and working classes.
And, no, many parents do not counsel their children on sex. When I started my periods, my caregiver said "You know what that is, don't you?" I had to learn that from the Girl Scouts, and they gave only menstrual education, not sex ed.
"Parents should have a relationship with their children"
Great idea - NOT.
Kids, stay at home. You don't have to go out, we have the same stuff here at home. Show your love here at home. It's the chistian way.
you are incorrigable
I'm not entirely sure that there is no "accidental" sex; sex is one of those things that proceeds from the least sophisticated part of the human brain, and it takes a lot of effort to process it through the more sophisticated reasoning provided by the frontal lobes. Besides, there is more than one intent for sexual behavior, all of them necessary for human well-being; pregnancy isn't the only expected outcome, even from an evolutionary point of view. Here's the thing, though: in the Evangelical community, of which I was once a part but am no longer, the reason teenagers are far less likely to use condoms is that they have to preserve the appearance of accident. A kid can't say to her mom and dad, "We tried to be safe, but his condom broke." To use contraception is to admit that you PLANNED to have sex, which is a greater sin than having sex itself. Parent are forgiving of a moment of weakness in the heat of passion, but not of deliberate engagement in inappropriate sexual behavior.
Just because Hannity wasn't bitch slapped the way you recognize it, doesn't for one moment mean that it isn't true.
The good general has dealt with turds like him for a long time and knows how to play him. It's called benign contempt.
Remember, Franks had to deal with the worst president of all time.
Yeah Sean, why AREN"T you?
Great clip.
You can see him look at the camera right after he said that.
OOPPSSssss. Betcha he wishes he could pull that one back in.
asshat.
"I'm a whiner!"
It's Good News/Bad News For the Evangelicals
The Mormon Church is not a traditional church. When America was founded, there was no such thing as the Mormon Church. Now, however, its members have grown, and it even threatens to turn our children away from more traditional religions, which have been the bedrock of American society since we declared our independence from King George.
Like that tyrant, the Mormon Church now poses a threat to traditions that have been the basis for our survival, whether they come from great Catholic organizations, Jewish Synagogues or our many Protestant branches of Christianity. Thus, we hope our state will join us in disestablishing the Mormon Church, and support Proposition Th'gie, the Defense of Traditional Churches Act.
What Prop. Th'gie Will Do: Amend the state constitution to reserve the rightful ownership of property on which organized religious activity will take place for traditional churches only. If the proposition passes, Mormon real property within the state will be confiscated, and returned to rightful public ownership, and organized Mormon activity on that land will be proscribed.
Very simply, this is not about interfering with the freedom of religion. It is about protecting the freedom of religion of traditional churches on which our society depends for its survival. Proposition Th'gie states only that the Mormon Church is not allowed to conduct any organized, tax-exempt activity, charitable or not within our state's borders, and may not own any property within our state's borders either. Such property is the kind of land that has always been reserved, and tax-exempt, for traditional churches. To let that tradition change threatens all of society.
Nothing in Prop. Th'gie will prevent people whose lifestyles, for whatever reason, make them believe in the Mormon Church's tenets from believing them. As long as they believe them in private, and do not try to purchase real estate or conduct other organized activities on behalf of their non-traditional church, they will not face any civil or criminal action.
Moreover, any Mormons will still be equally free to enter into a traditional church's property, and worship there, either as members of a traditional church, or silently as Mormons.
Please understand, this is not about hate. Proposition Th'gie is about protecting our state's land and public activities from interference by a non-traditional religion, without which our society cannot survive. In fact, we at Yes on Prop. Th'gie even have many Mormon friends. We are very tolerant. But we cannot tolerate organized activity by a non-traditional church that buys up land that could be used for traditional churches.
Moreover, if the Mormons are allowed to proceed unfettered, as they are right now, it will be the law that public school teachers must teach students that Mormons are just like any other religion, with the same Constitutional rights as any other religion. Ultimately, our children will be told that it is okay for them to become Mormon, and parents who belong to traditional churches will not be able to object.
We realize that some will say that we are attempting to take away Mormon rights. Please know that we are not doing that. The Mormons simply cannot hide behind so called "freedom of religion" when their activities could mean that much of our state's real estate will belong to a church with no bedrock foundation in America or its traditional religions.
Please support Proposition Th'gie.
Let's see ..
The Mormons
Organized in 1830 they set out to find land in Missouri and establish their City of Zion.
In 1838 they were expelled from Missouri under an Extermination Order signed by the governor of Missouri.
They moved to Illinois.
In 1846 they were expelled from Illinois and moved to what was then Mexico - now Utah.
However:
On March 24, 2004 the legislature of the State of Illinois issued a formal expression of regret to the Church for the expulsion and delivered it at a press conference at Church headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah on April 7, 2004.
MountainMan23:
Indeed, there has been much in the traditions of American like Prop. Th'gie. And it is unfortunate that the state of Illinois issued its apology through its legislature.
At least, though, those were democratically elected officials (I presume). At least the Mormons didn't go behind the people's backs to enforce their "rights" using tyrant judges.
Here in America, the majority rules. If we can get a majority of the state to outlaw Mormon property ownership, that's the law.
Why can't I find info anywhere on the Internet on this?
RuskinRules:
It's satire. ;)
all religions are stupid. some are just more so.
Abstinence makes the hard grow stronger!
Abstinence makes the hard- ON grow stronger!
Up at the Democratic Underground, a press release from the odious Westboro Baptist Church states they plan to protest at Toot's funeral.
Disgust is too weak a word.
These people are truly scary.
God, I'd love to be on that plane...
seriously, some legal consequences are in order. I can see a use for the new patriot act these days.
.
I grew up in the Bible Belt and knew lots of Evangelicals who just couldn't hold on to the virginity pledge. They got married and had babies as teenagers. Hell, I even took a virginity pledge, but let's face it...I never really had any intention of keeping it. Even if you do have intentions of waiting until marriage, it's almost impossible to keep it if you have a serious relationship and you're a horny 17 year old. Faith isn't the answer. God helps those who help themselves.
Red Family, Blue Family: Making sense of the values issue
by Doug Muder
http://www.gurus.org/dougdeb/politics/209.html
keep the pews full?
I'm all a-quiver(full).
Arnie decides to cut services and raise the sales tax. Larry Elder is never
satisfied, and has to show up Obama to get attention. Bush eagerly dumps his mistakes on Obama.
Young people like sex. I like sex. I wish I was young again so I would have more opportunties to have sex. I wish I had the energy to fulfill that dream.
At least according to a senior commander from the country.
I was cat-called by a couple of young Morman guys in my suburb in Australia. Shoulda had 'em deported.
Rahm Emanuel's father, Benjamin Emanuel, is an Israeli citizen. Benjamin was a member of the militant Irgun organization in the 1930s and 40s. Among the countless attacks against British soldiers and local Palestinians at the time, the Irgun was responsible for the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 in Jerusalem.
After 1948 the Irgun merged with other groups to form the so-called Israeli Defense Force (IDF).
I'm surprised Obama didn't simply appoint Olmert or Netanyahu as his chief of staff. Either of them is the next best alternative.
Rahm is way tooyoung to be related to someone who was predominant in Iraeli politics in the 30s and 40s.
Perhaps, it was a grandfather.
Wikipedia: Rahm_Emanuel
... the sentence is poorly written, and is meant to describe the Irgun as being active between 1931 and 1948, not Benjamin Emanuel.
Do you know that for a fact?
It was his father.
Google is your friend:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=benjamin%...
------
Rahm Emanuel is a hypocrite, to boot. He has previously stated in various newspapers that Israel wants peace, but that the Palestinians continue to practice terrorism. I wonder if Rahm criticizes his father for having been a member of a "terrorist" group, or if he realizes that Israel itself commits terrorism, but it goes unreported because of the likes of Rahm.
Hasn't this campaign-not to mention this administration-taught you anything about the dangers of guilt by association? Besides, the fact that these two politicians of divergent-and occasionally conflicting-backgrounds are willing to work together clearly shows a step in the right direction to overcoming our differences.
have gotten a false sense of relavence from 8 years of bush. voters were against gay marriage about the same as for abortion rights. interesting.
Rahm Emanuel served in the Israeli military during the first Gulf War.
(A 12 second ad precedes this report by an Israeli newspaper):
http://www.cast-tv.biz/play/wvx/22581/6.11New...
I hope this new administration will look at teen pregnancy rates with a more realistic approach than to freaking LIE to them and say condoms don't work.
It's frustrating. We have so much crap left to do.
Obama may have won, but we still have a long road ahead of us.
After the total mess the last and the republican agenda of the last 30 years, it will take several generations to get back what we used to have. Friends, it will never be the same in most of our lifetimes.
and buck foosh
Evangelical Teenagers really need to go here:
http://www.abstinenceonly.com
particularly if they're interested in anal, gay and group abstinence.
I'm especially fond of abstaining with Furries.
Hypocrites!
Hypnotized.
All Diebold Touch-Screen Systems Impounded by Judge in PA County
Straight-Party Ticket Votes Failed to Allow Voters to Review Names of Presidential Candidates Before Casting 'Ballot'
Same Flawed, Hackable, Unverifiable Machines Being Used in GA Senate Race, Elsewhere...
All 185 of the completely unverifiable Diebold touch-screen voting machines used in Northumberland County, PA's election were ordered impounded by a judge Tuesday night after complaints from both the Republican and Democratic parties. Officials from both parties had filed requested action following reports from voters that straight-party ticket votes were not showing voters the names of their selection for President on the summary screen near the end of the 100% faith-based touch-screen voting process.
Problems with straight-party voting, particularly on touch-screen voting systems, were reported in a number of states that allow the practice, during the early voting period in the days leading up to Election Day.
E-Voting Machines Used in Disputed Franken, Coleman Race Failed Tests
By Jason Leopold
The Public Record
Wednesday, November 05, 2008
Update: As of Thursday 9:04 p.m. EDT, Franken trails Coleman by 236 votes, down from 725 on Tuesday, according to unofficial results released by the Minnesota Secretary of State's Office.
Electronic voting machines that a Michigan election official said last week incorrectly tabulated vote counts during pre-election tests in the state were used in Minnesota where the senate race between Republican incumbent Norm Coleman and Democratic challenger Al Franken is in dispute.
According to an Oct. 24 letter sent to the federal Election Assistance Commission (EAC), Ruth Johnson, the Oakland County Clerk/Register of Deeds, warned that tabulating software in Election Systems & Software M-100 optical scan voting machines recorded “conflicting” vote counts during testing in her state.
Minnesota voters uses optical scan ballots that voters mark by hand. ES&S's M-100 optical scan voting was used in Minnesota counties and in more than a dozen other states on Election Day.
CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents
Gun sales spike following Obama win
Nov. 6: Texas gun stores reported a huge surge in sales following the presidential election. KXAS-TV's Scott Gordon reports. (NBC News Channel)
CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents
Crawford?
More cronyism from Arnie. The neo-depression hits Mattel.
nevermind!
CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents
CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents
LOL ...and that is only the second time in my entire life I've used that (so feel honoured?)
I got the "Hussein" abbreviated off my name, but dare I ask for a complete name change? Hussein was used for one purpose, and we got that wish, so...
mine truncates nicely, thank you
In August I started a 3 month factor bias study. It ran from 8-1-08 to 10-31-08, I watched the factor every night and counted the negative and positive comments about Barack Omama and John McCain. I counted every segment with a negative or positive comment, I did not count each negative or positive comment more than 1 time per segment. For example, if a segment had 3 negative comments about Barack Obama, it was only counted as 1 negative comment.
So these totals are a segment count on negative and positive comments, if I had counted every negative comment it would have been a lot more for Obama. I decided to do it that way so that no Republicans could claim this study was unfair to O'Reilly and his show. If I wanted to, I could have counted every single negative comment about Obama and it would have been way more than 257, probably more like 600. So this study is more than fair to O'Reilly, probably even too fair, but that's the way I did it.
Here are the totals for the entire 3 months, from 8-1-08 to 10-31-08:
Obama -- Negative - 257 -- Positive - 46
McCain -- Positive - 199 -- Negative - 35
That's 88% negative for Obama, and 12% negative for McCain. And 81.2% positive for McCain, 18.8% positive for Obama.
As you can see the bias against Obama is stunning, in 3 months of factor shows there were 257 segments with a negative comment against Obama. While during the same time there were only 35 segments with negative comments against McCain. In that 3 months Obama only had 46 segments with a positive comment about him. While during the same time there were 199 segments with a positive comment about McCain.
This shows a total bias from O'Reilly and his mostly Republican guests. What O'Reilly does is put 4 to 6 Republican guests on per show and they smear and lie about Obama. While it's a miracle to see more than 1 Democrat per show, once in a while it will be 2, but most nights it is 1 Democrat on the whole show, and some shows have 0 Democrats.
If you want to see an example of the unbalanced factor guest list look at this web page:
www.oreilly-sucks.com/oreillybalanced.htm
I love you, man, but you need to get laid.
too late.
CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents
You know it's a damn good thing Obama didn't appoint a Canadian as Chief of Staff. If he did you guys would be moving Washington to the arctic instead of something silly like worrying about how rahm emannuel would be doing his job
23/6 has the --- Inappropriate Hottie Rundown - The Obama Cabinet!
http://www.236.com/
Starting with Rahm. It's pretty damned funny.
When daddy marries his daughter.
Even the traditional weddings when daddy gives his daughter away has historical echoes of the meme of women not being real citizens but chattels and property of men.
If your word isn't good without a special vow, it's no good with one.
This is the same mindset that school prayer and other religious mummery produces perfect little citizens, when we have to figure upstanding gentlemen of refinement and breeding like Bush, DeLay, and others are the real end product.
Instead of developing character, you develop a belief that no matter how bad you screw up, Buddy Christ luuuuuuuuuuvs you. So you don't really have to put forth your best effort.
Ewwww. Creepy.
The purity balls are, simply put, the CREEPIEST things I have ever seen. My brother, who has two daughters, was approached by one of his Bible-thumping co-workers to attend one of these psuedo-incestuous events and he was OUTRAGED. ( Ironically, I was asked to attend a Promise Keepers rally the same week). Obviously, my high opinion of my brother was affirmed that day.
Sexuality or any other normal human behavior is generally vilified by fundamentalists of any stripe, and the end result is a culture so twisted that natural human interaction is subverted The Taliban is a prime example where torturing, beating and killing women became a form of ENTERTAINMENT and Christian fundamentalists, given their druthers, would undoubtedly resort to similar tactics. Hell! They did it during the Inquisition and Witch trails. Authoritarianism is almost always patriarchal and violent, and no more needs to be said about these parasites of humanity.
CHICAGO POLITICS IS NO CAKEWALK.
That's like asking Hungry Lions not to eat meat.
♥♥ Good Morning to a Happy America ♥♥
I registered, wonder how long I can last?
SEX? What about economy, illegal war/s? I am still outraged over the Bush administration. I want to see justice served.
While we all suffer, the big dawgs, the loud mouth "Sarah Palin" people will be ok, they will have jobs and money, they will keep their belongings, they won't get run outa their home towns.
I just saw Bush on TV saying, Obama won't be able to truly take control, or take hold because of the current mess the jerk off and his dumb ass nazi buddies created. He did it with the same you can't touch me smirk on his face.
We are so far behind that nothing we wanted , NOTHING, will even come close to getting done in the next decade...by then Hugo Chavez should be enough of a threat, that the military industrial complex can hijack America and bankrupt her again. 10 years or so to recover and forget, 10 years to not remember when 1 man could work 40 hours to support his wife and children. 10 more years to forget that the federal income tax is illegal ................****screams******..................
FISA ?????????????? DUDE Hello?????????????? Patriot act??
Have you forgotten? --stolen from the idiots--
PEAK OIL IS HERE: Era Of Cheap Oil is Over, Prices Will Top $200: International Energy Agency - http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/11/era-o...
Al Gore group urges Obama to create U.S. power grid - http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/i...
Al Gore's Alliance for Climate Protection has some environmental advice for the incoming Obama administration: focus on energy efficiency and renewable resources, and create a unified U.S. power grid. On Thursday, the group Gore founded rolled out a new media campaign to push for immediate investments in three energy areas it maintains would help meet Gore's previously announced challenge to produce 100 percent clean electricity in the United States in a decade.
"We have an historic opportunity to boost our economy and repower America with 100 percent clean electricity within 10 years. It will create new American jobs, end our addiction to dirty coal and foreign oil and solve the climate crisis."
We must do this, an oil based/coal based economy is doomed, the CEO of Royal Dutch Shell (2nd largest Oil co in world behind ExxonMobil) admitted in 2007 that we have 7 years, we're at Peak Oil...we need to ensure the future viability of our economy and thus our democracy...
"The world’s energy system will need substantial investments to meet demand, a global agency said Thursday while warning that urgent action was required to curb carbon emissions that cause global warming."
- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/business/07...
“Current global trends in energy supply and consumption are patently unsustainable — environmentally, economically, and socially,” the energy agency said. “But that can — and must — be altered.”
“The future of human prosperity depends on how successfully we tackle the two central energy challenges facing us today: securing the supply of reliable and affordable energy; and effecting a rapid transformation to a low-carbon, efficient and environmentally benign system of energy supply,” the report said.
Agency Predicts a Return of Triple-Digit Oil Prices.....as I said....expect $5.00 a gallon very soon.....the best way to kick Big Oil in the ass is to shove the green economy down their evil driven throats....
For those of you who aren't happy about Rahm Emanuel: Rahm Emanuel: You Can't Take a Knife to a Gun Fight. Live from Chicago, It's BuzzFlash.com!
- http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/140
We don't think that Obama chose Emanuel for his DLC ideology. A chief of staff is the person who gets the job done on behalf of the president (and Biden is not going to be pulling the stings like a Cheney; power will be restored to the presidency in an Obama Administration), not the formulator of policy.
Given that context, Emanuel may very well prove an effective choice in dealing with a Congress that is too often tied up in nots by the Republicans. Remember that Emanuel will be carrying out Obama's policies, and Rahm won't be bringing a steak knife to the fights ahead; he'll be shooting a bazooka.
That may be unpalatable to a lot of progressives, but the last person you want dealing with the remainders of the rabid right wing is a Quaker (although, yes, we are great admirers of the Quaker outlook). You need some muscle to shake up Capitol Hill, somone to blow a few knee caps off.
"You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Capone." - Sean Connery (The Untouchables)
Capone = Republican Filibusters... We all wanted a fighter, after Reid & Pelosi constantly laid down....hopefully we've finally got one.
GA Senate: Something is very, very wrong here (updated). Count all the votes, and don't stop until that has happened. - http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/6/8...
No voter left behind - http://www.novoterleftbehind.net/
Voting Machines Used In Minnesota Senate Race Failed Accuracy Tests - http://www.collegeotr.com/university_of_minne...
America Joining the 21st Century: What Does an Obama Presidency Mean for Tech? 'Chief Technology Officer' to Be Named to Cabinet - http://www.bulldogreporter.com/ME2/Audiences/...
Strains Between McCain and Palin Aides Go Public - Report: Palin's Wardrobe Is to Be Audited by GOP - http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=6...
Barack Obama's hidden talent: He's a top-notch poker player. Thank goodness—he’ll need it. - http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-storie...
Full Steam Ahead for California's High-Speed Rail - http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/11/california...
Proponents say the project is essential for a state choking on jammed highways and crowded airports, and predict that a well-planned north-south rail link could draw over 115 million riders a year by 2030. Gov. Schwarzenegger, one of the initiative's biggest advocates, argued high-speed rail will not only solve California's infamous gridlock, it will give the Golden State an economic competitive advantage.
BradBlog: All Diebold Touch-Screen Systems Impounded by Judge in PA County - http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6643
FiveThirtyEight: What in the hell happened in Alaska - http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/what-i...
Same thing that happened in Georgia, GOP vote rigging e-voting machines...
A Progressive Mandate - http://pr.thinkprogress.org/2008/11/pr2008110...
Strategery 2.0, What can greens expect from Obama? - http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/11/6/14...
Obama triggers first environmental dividend - http://www.desmogblog.com/obama-triggers-firs...
God Speed with the wind at your back.....
Anti-Reflective Solar Panel Coating Absorbs 96% of Sunlight, Called Photovoltaic ‘Game Changer’ by Developer - http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/11/anti-...
A farewell to Bush - go to Bill Press show website, click on today's links - its a compilation of the worst president in history all of his brilliant remarks & best hits
Political Irony: http://politicalirony.com/2008/11/06/timing-i...
lets just hope we havent bought another pig in a poke!if obama cant find any candidates for his administration other then the goons that normaly feed off washington dc then nothings going to change!
Who are you calling a goon? Get a life!!! Go back an crawl into your hole or educate yourself.
your opinions noted, now crawl back under that manure pile and much a bunch of crunchies
You are in Obama's new administration?
Speaking of business-as-usual, what does it say when Obama hasn't even seen his inauguration, and you're over here second-guessing and dumping on him already?
it says im not ready to be like the repigs i expect more from my leaders then some do!
In all fairness, I don't think that's 'expecting more,' that's being a horse's rear. He's been president-elect for all of three days, and you're here bitching, "Don't f--- it up, boy!"
If you didn't have confidence in his ability to be an effective leader, you should have voted for the sure thing: McCain/Palin.
sorry champ ive been a democrat longer then youve been alive , i voted for obama because thats the only choice i was given, as for as a horses rear end what does it say about a person who doesnt question his president elects stated policys or his choice of a cabinet? oh yah i think thats called mindless obediance !
Or is it called just plain old partisan politics? Apparently as long as your guy is elected, the party loyalists have no plans to hold anybody's feet to the fire. Sad. Change you can truly believe in. Run for office, get elected, choose exact same staff that has been in Washington for decades. Maybe for a real change, he'll choose an unknown like Hillary for Secretary of State. Not like she's been a politician her entire life. Change. If something doesn't change, the entire world will be counting their change, and nothing more sadly.
yeppers, concerned, its time for real change !
Obama doesn't have the time to pussyfoot and get comfy in the Oral Office. He needs drastic measures just for the economy alone, not....well it's only been X number of days...he needs to hit the ground literally running or he will never ever get a second term, and the American electorate will blame the entire party, not just him, just as Bush has been blamed for everything that his backers had him do.
And your point is?
Obama has chosen his chief of staff, press liaison, and advisor. He received his first national security briefing yesterday, and is holding his first news conference today.
Looks like he's got his track shoes on to me.
But for some reason, you and Tyree seem to think he ran that hard and that fast for two years just so he could collapse in a heap after the election and say it was all too much work.
Older than I've been alive? Really?
You'd better be old enough to have voted for Kennedy, then.
If I didn't have confidence in Obama's policies or his ability to make sound decisions, I wouldn't have voted for him. That being said, it's not enough to mouth platitudes about change and hope, you have to have a matching outlook, which you aren't showing. That's not 'mindless obedience,' but being a mature adult, something you seem to be struggling with, O Ancient Fount of Democratic Wisdom.
My only preference (it can't be a requirement, because Obama isn't consulting me) for cabinet picks is that they are capable people who can offer sound advice, not a bunch of 'personal counselors' and entrail readers like Bush did.
kennedy heh my first vote was for stevenson, guess my full house beats your two jacks! but you go ahead and not question your leaders i saw that before in nazi germany , myself ill be here long after you loose interest in good government!
then your bullshit gets put to the test.
Mine? Or Tyree's?
Frankly, if you have THAT much confidence in Obama, why the hell didn't y'all vote for Ralph Nader or Bob Barr?
Not only is it bad enough the hypocritical Palin's daughter is pregnant, but both the daughter and the husband to be dropped out of high school. Great role models.... great role models for hill billy culture!
Trackmeet that was the dropout, not Brillopad.
What's wrong with sex? I likes it. So do the Palin women. Guess they gotta be good at something.
or their friends are helping 'debut' their daughters to sex...
Rahm, Rham, Rham, Rham, Rham, Iran.
Sure... Change.
Yes, it's Change, as The One chooses his one, Congressman Rahm Emanuel (D-IL), to be his H.R. Haldeman. Emanuel is known for being smart and intense, mailing dead fish to people he hates, and freaking out at subordinates. Loving revenge, never forgiving a slight, and brooking no dissent, he's famous as an enforcer. Such figures are valued in the state (and the Mafia), if not in private society. Emanuel, with Pelosi's blessing, famously blocked antiwar Democrats from running for the House in 2006; he controlled the money for new candidates. Emanuel is an advocate of endless war in the Middle East. No chickenhawk, during the Gulf War, he volunteered as a civilian worker for the Israeli army. His father Benjamin, a physician, was a guerilla fighter for the Irgun against the British occupation of Palestine. The Irgun, a secret insurgent group, is described by unfriendlies as a terrorist organization for such acts as bombing the King David Hotel and ethnically cleansing with extreme prejudice Arab villages. Rahm's mother, Martha, was a civil-rights activist and rock 'n roll nightclub owner in Chicago.
Which is why "The GOdfather" is often taught in PoliSci classes...
In fact, there is virtually NO structural difference between a partisan political leadership and the the leadership structure of a gang...
And your sensible alternative is ....?
yes, because switching one set of criminals for another set always is the solution.
like people who come from the same small coterie of think tanks, such as the CFR, the Trilaterals, and the Bilderbergers - for starters.