Open Thread
By bluegal Monday Nov 17, 2008 8:30pm
"Secretary Henry Paulson" from The Guys from Area 51.
...and Happy Birthday, Howard Dean!
Open thread below...
John Amato’s virtual online magazine…OK, It’s a blog!
©2009 Crooks And Liars
Login or Register to post comments.
All of the talking points today seem to be aimed at the big three and the unions. We can't let them take that away from us. Unions directly effect the wages of everyone, union or nonunion.
... and suddenly, Joe Sixpack is to blame for our economic woes.
Seriously - if the automakers are going bankrupt, it's not because of the union employees. It's ridiculous to accept corporate leaders justifying their bloated salaries and exorbitant bonuses by saying they make tough decisions every day ... and then to wail, "It's not OUR fault!" when those 'tough decisions' turn out to be mistaking a financial mouse trap for a cookie jar.
He's going bald?
is going according to plan.
The plan is to take the money from the little guys and give it to the fat cats.
They even snuck in the $140 billion tax break for acquiring other institutions. Never mind that the money was for loans.
Easy credit is what burned the financial house down.
The arsonists who burned this economy down now show up with fireman's helmets and want to pour more gasoline on the burned out hulk.
Alice X:
And they've managed to convince even the bailout skeptics that while it's probably right to call them out, and stop their looting, saying so in public could hurt the market, and make the problem worse.
They've convinced the lawmakers that law is a luxury we just can't afford while they steal everything in sight.
the new 251-page plan is different from the original plan
BY ADDING $140Bil in pork for republicans
... bailouts for everyone. Lieberman looks like he's keeping everything. No prosecution for an entire cabinet of war criminals,...
...so far, my definition of change seems an awful lot like the same old same old,...
I tend to agree..........Every day it seems that some of the same ol' same ol', just keeps popping up..........very disappointed at this stage.......
Net Neutrality
Net Neutrality Advocates In Charge Of Obama Team Review of FCC
Okay, I realize that there are some who will argue that the two-party system is but an illusion, that the Democrats are hopelessly corrupt, and that we all should have quit long ago. And I realize that others will wonder why, after we just won the House, Senate and Presidency, we should suddenly turn and shoot ourselves in the foot. But hear me out.
While I would never assert that there is "no difference" between Democrats and Republicans (I worked hard alongside many to prevent the mass suicide that would have been a McCain/Palin administration), the Democrats are on the verge of allowing Joe Lieberman to remain as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, Obama has signaled that he will run a post-partisan, non-ideological White House, and the Busheviks are going to get away with every crime they have committed. Moreover, I think that even among many Democratic Party loyalists, there is at least some antipathy toward the Dem/Rep duopoly, and a desire for better representation.
So, now that we have at least bought a little time, and hopefully, a chance to stop the bleeding, might now be the right time not to work to undermine the Democrats at the federal level, but to begin to form a loud, openly independent movement on the local and state levels? To form a movement of "lesser evil refugees," who will run for school boards, city councils and the like, openly disavowing outright allegiance to either of the two major parties, claiming to be members of new, alternative parties, and working for the kind of electoral reform that will ultimately make many different parties viable.
We wouldn't necessarily have to agree with one another on our general political philosophies, but if we self identified as members of a "break the duopoly" movement, and understood that we were all working together across the country in the long term to change the political landscape, maybe we could change the world. Simultaneously, we could alert the Democrats that, while we still basically support the vaguely defined "left" in America, they don't have our support automatically.
Perhaps now is the time to start. To say, okay, we broke the Republicans, and worked hard to put the Democrats back in. But that was just step one. We still support the Democrats at the federal level, but we're no longer Democrats ourselves, and we're going to work from the bottom up to change the system.
Too soon? Counterproductive? Or the right time?
Too soon.
Why are we already making judgements. Can't we wait until the new administration takes office?
We have limpballs and fox blues to do that...lol
I didn't mean to assert that we would somehow be judging Obama harshly before he's actually done anything, Ron. He just might perform spectacularly, and if so, he deserves our continued support.
And I wasn't even saying that we should withdraw our support from him, or the party on a federal level. Just that it might be time to work on real reform of the system --- attentive to the political realities and the threat of the Republicans and the right, but declaring that we're not automatically bound to the Democratic Party on the local level.
Hey, maybe people really like the Democratic Party. Personally, I'd rather have more meaningful choice. And I'd like to go about creating that possibility in a meaningful way.
From what he has said, that's what he is trying to do. He can't do it alone and he needs the people he is choosing for his cabinet to understand that they can be a part of it. Do you think they like the system the way it is? They only did what they had to do to get in a position to try to make changes. They know it has to change also. I may be a bit naive, but I do have hope and I'm not ready to give up. I will always be here to raise hell if I'm wrong.
Are you kidding? We've been sitting around for eight years with no impeachments, no indictments, no protests, no nothing. People like Rove REFUSE to appear in court, nothing happens. Every day out two wars rage on, more people die.
I didn't vote for Obama because I believe he's so different, I voted against the racists & nazis that are suddenly emboldened.
All I want is the same justice that would be leveled against me if I committed crimes anywhere near the level of severity that the above have. That means consequences for Holy Joe, & a trip t the hague for Bushco & anyone who lied to us about the wars.
I like Obama a lot as a person, but I don't trust him. He's taken the same amount of contributions from the AT & T's & the oil companies who are the real culprit & profiteers of the average American's suffering. If they can't nail Paulson this early in the game, or give Lieberman the ass tanning he deserves, then how are they going to tackle the really big problems?
...I worry about Obama trying to play as if he's on a level playing field. I pray he's smarter than that.
Clinton had a high 60's, low 70's approval rating, a balanced budget, record low unemployment, & $18 a dollar barrel oil,... & look how they worked to crucify him, & he was a southern white man!
The white supremacists aren't going to be the only ones gunning for Obama. He's going to face opposition for just being there like no one in the last century has seen. He needs to play it hard & fast, or the cogs of the machine will grind him like a scene from Fargo2.
Most Americans like to delude themselves into believing that they have a 2-party system whereas each party works for the same invested interests and receives huge political contributions from them. I believe that the parliamentary system practiced in most of the other Democracies of the world is much more responsive to the wishes of the people. At the very least we should have reforms in our system that allows for more political diversity. True democracy should be embraced, not feared.
There ARE other parties. Green, Constitution, Reform, Socialist, etc. etc. They get on ballots, too. What's the problem, exactly?
The problem is the archaic electoral system we have. The single-member districts and winner-takes-all elections.
In political science there's a phenomenon known as Duverger's Law. (It's a misnomer, since it's not a hard and fast law. More of a recognized tendency.) The idea is that in the single-member districts / winner-takes-all electoral system, voters don't actually vote their true preferences. They vote tactically. They vote to prevent the greater evils from winning.
Over time, this leads to a political duopoly --- two, largely centrist parties who do not actually represent the diversity of the population. The more they become entrenched, the more centrist they become, each always trying hard to maintain that 50%+1 level of support, no matter where it comes from, or whom they have to betray to keep it.
There are plenty of other problems with our system, but Duverger's Law is more prominent in America than in any other democracy with our electoral system. (Most democracies have abandoned our system, by the way.)
sounds good to me.......:)
Oh hell yea, the time is now, MAKE EM WORK to Keep it.
No more excuses for anything, like Pelosi none made for her. The Fisa vote really needs some attention, Obama voted for immunity, didn't he. That is direct violation of the constitution, can we say something about it now that he won, or is he gonna be god to us like Bush was to them?( I doubt it)
Are we gonna beat people up in the street if they say Obama sux? Just some random thoughts.
Of coarse, we watch, we see them do good or bad, if Obama starts doing wrong I am sure, some one some where will say so. Like me right now, WTF FISA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
We wouldn't necessarily have to agree with one another on our general political philosophies, but if we self identified as members of a "break the duopoly" movement, and understood that we were all working together across the country in the long term to change the political landscape, maybe we could change the world.
Unity through Balkanization, Karen?
Isn't there already such a group? It's called the Green Party. They could use more members, run in more local and even state races, and need building up of the sort that Ralph Nader should have been doing if he were serious about breaking the Dem-Rep duopoly.
They haven't admitted it yet, but the Republicans seem to want to split between fiscal conservatives (the party of Big Business) and conservative Christianists (the party of Theocracy). Maybe we could cut a deal: if they split, we'll split too.
Imagine the political landscape from left to right:
Green — Socialist — Democratic — Republican — Libertarian — Christianist.
the SoS offer: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/17/h... (via RawStory.com)
can we please please please please get rid of the sodahead.com banner ads???
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p300/djbur...
or do you guys honestly think Obama bought the election and now you can kiss your paycheck goodbye...
the usual rule applies. Write a check equal to the revenue the ad produces and ask politely. Maybe you'll get your wish.
You can then block any scripts you want to, including those ads.
in that hat.
Karen: We don't go into battle with the progressives we want, unfortunately. It's more important to pressure them directly, or they'll just pretend we don't matter.
New This Modern World strip.
Mullen ironically lies by telling the truth about our current agreement with Iraq. Bush's problem with fuzzy math means he's chosen to dump most of the bail-out on Obama, rather than continuing to believe he has a "legacy". Waddya know? Gulf War Syndrome is real! And it only took Tim McVeigh blowing up a building and our current generation of troops resorting to random acts of domestic violence for the feds to finally acknowledge it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7734712.stm
I hope the 80% of US citizens that have the blood on innocent Iraqis on there hands can sleep at night.
The payback is going to be colossal I'd think.
.
Who needs the Rule of Law when the people prefer to follow the whims of men?
[/snark]
Where as this man was short and that man is tall, this current president ignores the law and the next...?
Q U E S T I O N:
What keeps men in power obedient to the law if it's violations lack consequences?
What's a vigilante?
.
Do you think that since you have started the open thread later than ususal may have something to do with the activity lately?
Holy what-a-U-S-fucking-A screw up things look to be south of the border. I feel sorry for my brothers and sisters down there (even though I'm over here-- Asia). The election dust hasn't even settled and there is discord everywhere. From and evangelical crusade (Huck and Palin), to a libertarian idea of a new world order (Ron Paul), to a bumch of finger pointing grumpusses (and the rest)--(old white xian GOP farts). And no one seems to trust the Dems either.
The only good part is watching the GOP implode. Looks like quite a fight brewing there!!! Popcorn anyone?
I watched a UK film about guys being taken to Guantanamo last night. It was very --extremely-- disturbing. Sorry, but I will never forget!! Never.
Don't listen
to them!
the wingnuts
single handedly, he is attempting to repair the rifts that have occured over the years between the african american and portions of the jewish community
he is on the verge of appointing the second observant jew to his administration....jacob lew
now, get in a couple of muslims, a few hindus, and athiest and an agnostic....and we have got a party
Poor people in China are upset that their land is being stolen by corporations.
The economy forces a lot of employers to play Ebenezer Scrooge this year. The feds temporarily postpone murdering horses.
The Big Three automakers flip-flop
on green cars. Fifty percent more American children went hungry since last year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-Xe_TsDqI
Suitable for ages three and up? Something is rather disturbing about this product to me. "Locking up" dad in a pretend jail? I don't have kids, but I have been to jail several times, so maybe I'm being overly sensitive...
Newest Veterans Hit Hard by Economic Crisis
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
A combination of factors including unemployment and
injury has forced many veterans into foreclosure.
I am skeptical of the obama administration apparent policy to allow opposing players into the inner circles. That may have worked for Lincoln, people had a sense of honor back then. There is news that the bush administration is allowing political ideologues to obtain civil service positions (so called "burrowing", ensuring their entrenchment in the obama administration). Combined with other political opponents intentionally brought in, there will be a lot of potentially anti-administration forces operating within the new administration. If not careful, the obama administration may find itself confronting a literal "fifth column" of enemies within its own ranks, wanting to undermine at every turn, any obama progressive policy changes.
I'm just happy that the talk is about President-elect Obama and not President-elect McCain. I'm not ready to let that happiness go just yet. I will have faith in Obama as long as he will let me and I'm not going to begin bitching about him now just for the sake of bitching. I believe he knows a lot more about what he is dealing with than any of us do. We elected him so let's stand behind him, not blindly but with the same faith in him we had when we cast our votes just two weeks ago today.
Why Deniers/Extinctionists/'Skeptics' are stone cold idiots: Guess Who's Feeling Insecure About the Climate! - http://www.military.com/news/article/us-milit...
US Military Worried About Climate Change; As a new administration committed to addressing climate change takes office, intelligence and defense officials are laying plans to address the national security implications of a warmer planet.
In recent months, U.S. military planners have discussed the impact on personnel, equipment and installations of extreme weather events, rising ocean temperatures, shifts in rainfall patterns and stresses on natural resources.
In the Dick of it, Cheney pushing for last-minute polluting policies - http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/11/14/1...
What a worthless scumbag, good riddance to filthy rubbish...
Larisa Alexandrovna: Abramoff said he had agreement with White House aide just a month after Bush took office - http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Abramoff_said_h...
"I do not know that man" - GWBush....
Pardon Us; CIA lobbies Bush to pardon torturers - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nor...
Big Three Bailout Bill; Dem plan would ban bonuses and dividends, add oversight - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
"Compassionate Con-servativism"/Republican 'Great economy' Update: "New government figures show that almost 700,000 children went hungry in the United States at some point in 2007, up more than 50 percent from the year before to mark the highest point since 1998. And that's even before this year's sharp economic downtown."
- http://www.newsnet5.com/health/18000875/detai...
And that's even before this year's sharp economic downtown, the Agriculture Department reported Monday. And remember kids...'its your fault'.....
'War on Drugs'????? Mexican Gangsters Converting America's National Parks Into Gigantic Marijuana Patches - http://www.vdare.com/walker/081113_parks.htm
Yet another neocon fairytale/right wingnut fantasy debunked: U.S. Task Force Found Few Iranian Arms in Iraq - http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=44720
Secretary of Defence Robert M. Gates suggested that there was "some sense of an increased level of [Iranian] supply of weapons and support to these groups." And Washington Post reporter Karen DeYoung was told by military officials that the "plentiful, high quality weaponry" the militia was then using in Basra was "recently manufactured in Iran". But a U.S. military task force had been passing on data to the Multi-National Force Iraq (MNFI) command that told a very different story. The data collected by the task force in the previous six weeks showed that relatively few of the weapons found in Shi'a militia caches were manufactured in Iran.
Another reason Gates is a terrible choice for Secretary of Defense.... Clean house Barack..none of the Bush crime family appointments are worthy of staying in their jobs....none of them....
A sad, 'sick' irony: The Uninsured Often Donate Organs, but Rarely Receive Them - http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2008/11/...
Universal Healthcare is a right, not a 'privilege'.....only in a country this greedy could it be possibly called that, the only major industrialized country to deny its citizens this right....the only one...
Fallout from the biggest heist/stick up in history: Banks Boost 'Customer Fees' to Record Highs - http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/ar...
Thanks for your taxpayer money for our board members/executives...now pay up again! A true disgrace in the 21st century...
Joe Conason: Republicans have flooded the airwaves with baseless propaganda to discredit the Coleman-Franken recount in advance. It's the George W. Bush 2000 Florida playbook all over again. Franken is not giving in to their bullying though.
- http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2008/11/...
High Speed Rail Gets the Nod from Voters in California - http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=7474&c...
Sirota: Bi-Partisan Effort to Strip Paulson of His Remaining Power & Money, Which is OUR Money - http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/200811471...
You know something is WRONG when James 'I wish I had a brain' Inhofe & America's Senator Bernie Sanders agree with one another.....
Is William Buckley's National Review On Its Last Knees? - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/business/me...
Tom 'Marianas Islands perfect petri dish of capitalism' Delay's dreams coming to fruition, North Carolina: Child labor going largely unchecked - http://www.charlotteobserver.com/573/story/31...
The 'free market' wet dream of con-servatives slowly bringing Oliver Twist back to real life...right wingnuts see it as an instruction manual instead of a social commentary/cautionary tale...
Only in the 'new South' will you find right wingnuts employing illegally then attending an anti-immigrant rally the next day....hypocrisy is jealous...
Speaking of Hypocrisy: Saxby Chambliss: Chickenhawk Extraordinaire - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/17/the-...
Please forward this to anyone you know in the state of Georgia... And please start referring to him as Saxby "Bum Knee" Chambliss....
Franken's Position Looks Surprisingly Good, New Political Study Shows - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/17/fran...
SHOULD GO WITHOUT SAYING!!!!! Any racist targeting President-elect Barack Obama should be classified a terrorist - http://www.marymacelveen.com/blog/_archives/2...
Maybe we should keep Guantanomo open for these insufferable bastards...if this isn't a direct threat to national security, I don't know what is...
Paul Loeb: Keep the White House drapes, but bring back the solar panels - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/keep-...
YES!!! Net Neutrality Advocates In Charge Of Obama Team Review of FCC - http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/11/net-...
Both are highly-regarded outside-the-Beltway experts in telecom policy, and they've both been pretty harsh critics of the Bush administration's telecom policies in the past year. Their jobs will be to review the agency and arm the president, vice president and prospective agency leader with all the information needed to make key decisions as they prepare to take over."
The Internet will be kept safe...for Democracy...
America's Senator: A senator on Monday said he will introduce a bill to stop the release of $350 billion in the second round of funding for a massive Wall Street bailout program. Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent who usually votes with the Democrats, voted against the $700 billion program approved by Congress in October and enacted by President George W. Bush to stabilize the financial system.
- http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/i...
"The administration's plans as to how the money should be spent appear to be changing on a daily basis," Sanders said.
"Meanwhile, they are operating in secrecy, ignoring the oversight provisions of the legislation and, with dubious legality, are changing long-established rules by providing huge tax breaks for the banking industry," he said.
We're lucky to have him...
Republican Depression/Financial Crisis Update: Financial Crisis Tab Already In The Trillions. That's $4,284,500,000,000 and more than what was spent on WW II, if adjusted for inflation.
- http://www.cnbc.com/id/27719011
What right wingnuts want to see in United States: Killer Smog Cloud Smothers Sunlight Across Asia - http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/11/giant...
The Times Newspaper on Transition Towns & 'Apocalypse Now' - http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/11/trans...
In Sandpoint, Idaho - birthplace of Sarah Palin, who really wouldn't approve (who gives a ....) - residents have prepared the community garden for its first winter and plans are under way for a local biomass-fired power plant.
All This Work, and Nothing to Chauffeur It, NYC announces new, voluntary plan to encourage hybrid taxis - http://www.grist.org/news/2008/11/17/taxi/
Political Irony: http://politicalirony.com/2008/11/18/the-end-...
http://politicalirony.com/2008/11/17/peeing-i...
http://politicalirony.com/2008/11/18/late-nig...
heh heh the democraps are so furiouse at liberdouche they decided to keep him where is at! on the homeland security thinggy , grrr grrrr grrr bunch of pusseeys~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in the spirit of bi-partisnship i perpose that we turn over all new jobs that are created for the homeland security to only thoes who hold both isralie and american citizenship its downright un american if the house and senate were only made up of americans , even dare i say dispicable!
Paulson's from Area 51?
That might explain a few things,
But I woulda thought it was Chertoff.
Undoubtedly some botched governmental cover-ups...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xidszxFpBy4
what say you ysb! is the bridge offer still available?
I ain't into orthondontia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAKYQjpDtpA&fe...
i live within driveing a short distence from where our gold supply is housed at ft knox , and i believe that what little remains would be better housed in the spirit of saveing mantainence fees there that the remaining bars be moved and stored in a porta potty some where in the sanora desert , sighned ben bernanke
a few days ago president elect met with senator mccain , i suspect mccain was being offered secratary of war in the upcomeing new and certainly government of change, that and the change the democrats have given us by putting libergoose back in charge of homeland security assures us of the yrs of peace we can look forward to, now its on to afganistan for more agression against another nation , god is on the side of who ever holds the most weapons!
Login or Register to post comments.