Obama's citizenship: The wingnuts' desperation is showing
By David Neiwert Friday Dec 05, 2008 11:00am
It seems the outer fringes of wingnuttia are still clinging to a last little acorn of a conspiracy theory as their last hope for stopping Barack Obama from becoming president. It comes down to this:
The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's election.
The meeting of justices will coincide with a vigil by the filer's supporters in Washington on the steps of the nation's highest court.
The suit originally sought to stay the election, and was filed on behalf of Leo Donofrio against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells.
Legal experts say the appeal has little chance of succeeding, despite appearing on the court's schedule. Legal records show it is only the tip of an iceberg of nationwide efforts seeking to derail Obama's election over accusations that he either wasn't born a U.S. citizen or that he later renounced his citizenship in Indonesia.
David Weigel at Slate has a rundown on how widespread this has gotten, from the Donofrio case now before the court, to 9/11 troofer Philip Berg's lawsuit, to WorldNetDaily's ongoing fundraiser, to the peculiar case of one Bob Schulz:
That's the same argument made by Bob Schultz, the founder of the paleoconservative We the People Foundation for Constitutional Education. On Monday and Wednesday, Schultz gave the Obama conspiracy its biggest burst of attention—at least since Rush Limbaugh speculated that this was the real reason Obama visited his dying grandmother—by purchasing full-page ads in the Chicago Tribune. In the "open letters" to Obama, Schultz asserts that Obama's certificate of live birth is "forged," that his "grandmother is record[ed] on tape saying she attended your birth in Kenya," and that Obama would have lost his citizenship anyway when Ann Dunham married her second, Indonesian husband, Lolo Soetoro. (Lou Dobbs would be delighted to discover that the 14th Amendment can be nullified so easily.)
Schultz has asked Obama to allow forensic investigators to inspect Obama's files in Hawaii's Department of State. "Have one guy go in and do his thing," explains Schultz. "Have another guy go in, do his thing, put the certificate back in the envelope. These are scientists. They should all come to the same conclusion."
Stephen Piggott observes that the Schulz campaign is being touted heavily by the white-nationalist crowd. That's unsurprising: Schulz has been selling far-right tax theories to gullible suckers for awhile now, and as Ward observes, this is a crowd that has been a major seedbed for far-right organizing for a considerable time.
Schulz has been running an outfit called We the People Foundation for a number of years that sells these schemes. He has been featured on Fox News a couple of times -- Brit Hume interviewed him once propounding a tax scheme that is built upon a hash of groundless conspiracy theories that have their origins in the far-right Posse Comitatus and other extremist tax protest schemes. It was, in fact, also remarkably similar to the Montana Freemen's theories. And for the duration of the interviews, Hume listened intently and evidenced no skepticism whatsoever about the fantastic claims regarding federal taxes Schulz was making.
This wasn't the only time Fox interviewed Schulz. When he staged a "hunger strike" (there's no evidence he actually went without food) later that year, Fox's Hannity and Colmes interviewed him and were only a little less credulous than Hume.
Schulz eventually gave up his "hunger strike" after the intervention of Republican representative Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland. He offered to give Schulz's group a briefing on tax laws with IRS officials, but called that off when Schulz announced the meeting would be "putting the IRS on trial." Later that November, he was threatening the federal government with a "final warning" to all branches of government to "obey the Constitution, or else." The courts later issued an injunction preventing Schulz from pawning his tax-theory scams. They concluded that he had not only engaged in illegal activity but he had also exposed a large number of ordinary citizens to criminal liability for misfiling their federal income taxes. When he ignored the injunction, he was cited for contempt of court. Finally, in April 2007, the Justice Department sued to prevent Schulz from marketing his scam.
Now he's found another scam to sell the suckers. Though it seems that (to their credit) not even a lot of regular right-wingers are biting. That, of course, will drive the nutcases even nuttier.
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being half black (African to boot) can't qualify you to the All-American presidential club.
they'll find something else to sling at the wall. These bigots stay up all night with stomach disorders at the mere thought that a black man is their President.
And you wonder why I'm almost overly protective.
And it's about our least-favorite Supreme.
It's not like their buddy W. is going to get a third term.
If Obama were to be disqualified, Joe Biden would become the president.
And, gee, where's the siddown-and-shut-up crowd now, when it's not their candidate who got elected?
Because Obama has not yet been inaugurated, I don't think that is how it would play out. There would probably have to be a run-off election. I remember reading or seeing something about this a couple of weeks ago.
The author (or talking head) said that they doubted if the Supremes would touch this because it would create a constitutional crisis. What they will probably look at is whether someone like McCain, who was born on foreign soil, would be eligible (he would) and put something into law concerning eligibility relating to that.
McCain born in Panama...
Bush born in CT. Ever been to Greenwich? That's a foreign land.
Kind of like McCouldn't suspending his campaign to fix the financial crises.
Hahahahahhahahha
It's interesting that after David Souter showed no interest, the wingnuts went to that great legal scholar Clarence Thomas, whose interest in justice is well founded. He called for a full meeting of the Supremes over this weighty issue.
What a putz!
"Clarence Thomas"
Something else the Bush family gave us. Clarence Thomas and George W. Bush. No wonder old lady Bush has an ulcer. I hope she is withering in pain right this moment.
I was starting to think that voodoo doll I bought in New Orleans a few years ago was a knock off...
......I was starting to think that voodoo doll I bought in New Orleans a few years ago was a knock off......
I LOVE this comment, LOL. Thanks.
i thought of this saying after reading the article, apparently the Neocon Hail Mary desperation has replaced any serious thought of reworking their bankrupt and failed message. Coming up with workable solutions to make their message more palatable would require some thought and effort and standing down their supersize egos---why do that when you can just bleat your asinine talking points over and over like a broken record and go on boasting about how important you are?
The Neocons seem to be doing a fine job kicking their own ass---good deal---just one less thing for progressives to worry about.
How is this even a question? His mother was a citizen. That makes Obama a citizen no matter where he was born. He could have been born in Indonesia or Iran or a fucking Al Qaeda training camp, it wouldn't matter. As long as one of his parents was a citizen at the time he was born, then he is a natural born citizen. See the Naturalization Act of 1790: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens." End of question.
It is the part about natural born (or some such, I don't recall the exact phrase at the moment) part that has their panties in a twist.
So he was supernaturally born?
That would explain all the talk about his being the messiah!!
C-sections?
Although I find it ironic if that is the case, because then it would beg the question on how the "pro-lifers" know so much about fetuses but so little about birth (or conception for that matter).
"pro-lifers" have "bathroom babies" like bush, he was pooped.
That's why he's such a shit.
They deserve a good ribbing :-P
Ain't that what Adam got?
natural born? like lamaze? Or no epidural? Now this is just getting rediculious!
Actually it's a known known that mcgramps was born in the Phillipines, but it was American territory and his parents were American. The constitution refers to it as Natural Citizen. The term was derived from the British concept of Natural Subject. Which got them in much heapum trouble when they broke up their Empire and former colonials from wide and varied ethnicities wanted to move there.
Panama. But it was cleared to be OK, by statute and such, long before McDepends threw his diaper into the ring. Apparently the wingnuts think Hawaii is not a state...
Sorry, Panama.
It's in the constitution.
Above per Wiki.
This is what the wingnuts are going wingnuttier about.
Maybe if you did it wouldn't have so many weird capitalizations.
What do you have against proper English, including correct capitalization and punctuation?
Darlin', be careful...you approacheth wingnut territory, there. :-)
What, are they suggesting he was hatched?
A Maine RW Blog has been ranting about this "issue" since July. They are up to 1070 posts about it!
This shit is so funny to me. I love to see these right wingnuts start frothing about nonsense like this. I hope I start getting emails telling me that Obama is not qualified because of this crap. I always send them back with a "Hhahahahahahahahahahahhahahhaha (wiping tears of laughter from my eyes) hahahahahahahah" comment.
If either of his parents were Americans, through Ius Sanguine, it doesn't matter whether Obama was born in Kenya, Indonesia, Florida of Transylvania.
But in the case of the latter, you might not want to accept from Obama an invitation to dinner.
[Deleted. You are so welcome to post views that are in direct opposition w/ the authors of our threads -- just not with the descent into 8th grade behavior that includes name calling. You may repost, without the vitriol and groundless accusations, if you so choose-Sitemonitor]
here, but I agree completely with the substance of your comment.
What exactly do you consider flawed with the reports of what happened on that day? While I'm aware the 9/11 commission was pretty badly handled, I do remember watching the events of the Twin Towers on TV, and I have spoken with someone who was at the Pentagon...what exactly do you believe they are not telling us?
No, seriously, I'm curious. Everything else you listed has clear motivation,(heavily based around the Iraq war) but I've never understood the motivation behind any of the theories raised about 9/11.
who was really responsible? where did they money come from?
was there inside cover? all that and more
my comment below for info as to why.
For someone who uses the term Ronin in your name, you display an amazing lack, unintentional or otherwise, of knowledge of power plays and grabs for power/wealth/control.
If it isn't possible for the people blamed to do the attacks, then the people who blame them - with obvious motives as I describe above - are ultimately suspect.
If they are lying about the events, why are they lying?
If its possible that this administration would waste 4000+ lives occupying a nation, and wasting 1.5 million Iraqi's to get their control over the oil fields....
how is it so impossible that they would use/create 3000 casualties, collateral damage, so jump start the process?
The name's actually got very little to do with the word's actual meaning...just a handle I've used for years. I know it refers to Japanese warriors who have been outcast from their clan for various reasons and considered dishonored, (and I believe that there can be intense politics and power grabbing behind that)...though the word's taken some other connotative meanings in culture these days.
Anyway, you actually provided me with the question I want to ask--how is it not possible for the people blamed for the attacks to have committed them? What evidence have you seen?
I referenced below. PNAC document. See the top of page 66.
have read page 60 of that document.
they admit they have bio-weapons that can target specific genotypes.
They admit that they are willing to use bio-weapons that can target genotypes as a politically viable tool, doesn't outright state that they have it yet.(Still Scary though) Actually, the paragraph that the statement occurs in seems to be discussing the future of warfare...and they seem kinda nuts to me, I think they've been watching too many science fiction movies. =/
if they are targeting specific genotypes, what does that tell you about their mind-set?
how would the Human Genome Project come into play in this? Afterall, they have mapped the human genome now.
If they're targeting genotypes, then that is a huge thing to worry about--I'm still on board that these people need to be stopped, in order to stop sheer idiocy if nothing else. Bio-weapons like the ones they suggest are an incredibly stupid idea, since DNA doesn't work on a strictly A leads to B basis. Blowback is a pretty huge threat with these kinds of things.
1. Anyone with a brain, and who knows anything about ballistics, after seeing the Pentagon film in slow motion, knows that it was not anything large that hit the Pentagon and; that whatever it was traveled horizontally, parallel to the surface, at a very high rate of speed -leaving out any possibilities of falling debris and; that it had an explosive charge attached to it.
2. The only possiblilty, through sound careful inductive reasoning, is that it was a missile.
3. Dick Cheney did call out air support.
4. Sadly, the plane carrying Olsens's wife was likely fired on by at least one US missile, it missed. Since no other explosions were reportedly heard or witnessed, it's likely the firing was called off and the plane was escorted/forced out to sea.
That's a logical answer that answers both questions, while continuing the usual Bush cover-ups and lies used for mistakes by it's own hands.
I don't know what it was. Perhaps when or if the multitude of tapes from the area cameras are released we might get an idea.
I do know however, that the remnants of the crash do not correspond to a 100+ ton jet aircraft, based on other high impact jet crashes, and even shuttle burn-ups/explosions.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11...
check it out
Here is that mp3 of the ambassador of Kenya saying that they would erect a monument to Obama at his birthplace in Kenya.
http://www.gdrg.net/dm/kenya.mp3
:)
Everyone claims him as "theirs", big deal. It doesn't change anything.
Kenya is the birthplace of Barack Obama SR. I'm currently stationed in Hawaii and a lot of mainlanders do seem to view this STATE as a foreign country. It's really sad.
Salon: Why the stories about Obama's birth certificate will never die
Thanks, wonderful article.
I still worry over this case...the fact that it's even being considered to be investigated does not fill me with confidence. I doubt anything will come of it, but...imagine the chaos that'll erupt if anything comes of it. Scary stuff.
The Project for a New American Century, which most of our governmental high ups are a member of. Bill Kristol is the chairman. Their leading document calls for "a new pearl harbor*" for them to make the changes that they want to make to have America lead the world by (re)education and strength.
* page 63 or 64 of their leading document which you can get from their website (www.newamericancentury.org [I think] or from Old American Century, a site which maintains PNAC docs and other stuff. Google both for correct URLs.)
Scary? as in "another 9/11"? These are fear merchants after all, and THIS is the best they can do?
Comment dysfunction.
This is a response to a query above about WHY they would want 9/11.
what I find scandalous is that there have been a total of ZERO persons held accountable for the biggest failure in intelligence/defense/whathaveyou in our country's recent history.
We spend half of our budget on defense. Why there was not a clear answer on why the #$#@ is the value added in wasting more money in defending our soil than the next top 10 countries combined, when a bunch of jackasses with knife cutters can bring down our country's infrastructure to its knees, that is what is beyond me.
I mean, we are the same country that ships a kid to rot in jail for selling seeds of a smelly plant.
You don't care if there was conspiracism?
Really? I don't think you realize exactly what you're saying/
Think about that again.
I am not making claim about what did or did not happen that day, or who was or wasn't responsible for the attacks.
what I am talking about is about the lack of depuration regarding responsibilities for the massive defense and intelligence failures.
If what I am saying is the truth, what does it matter that there isn't a reckoning FROM the government about those guilty?
You don't think that the real government will protect its own little racket?
If the government, Shadow or otherwise, either actively or passively participated in it, then we have bigger problems than prosecuting some sacrificial lamb for it.
And that's the biggest psychological hurdle that people face.
...al
waste
of
time
racism rides again
Pathetic. What bad sportsmanship.
-Jeremy
http://www.jeremyabrams.com
What if your father had never been born? You know, like Jesus?
It's worse than that
Jesus was supposed to be God incarnate
So he was the son of the mother he boinked to produce himself.
Marty McFly shoulda thunkathatone.
So much for it being a monotheistic religion.
I guess Clinton would have defended the Catholic dogma of the holy trinity being monotheistic, with the following salvo "well... it depends of what the definition of one (mono) is."
Sounds like a Walmart Christmas special.
I'm sure Clinton had mono at some point of his past.
Have you ever looked into the Gnostic, Arian, Nestorian and Monophysite heresies?
"These are scientists. They should all come to the same conclusion."
Umm, no.
nonsense... and I raise you to a Prescott Bush's financing of the nazi war machine, and his participation in his conspiracy to throw the US government since his pals thought a fascist regime would be a much better fit.
and I re-raise you.
Why have the Democrats participated in this coverup?
FDR, instead of prosecuting those bastards and have them hang for treason, decided to let it be for the sake of national unity.
The irony is that, Gen Smedley Butler who exposed the plot was labeled as a communist (even though he was the most decorated marine ever, and he ran an unsuccessful election as a republican after his retirement)... and traitor Prescott Bus had a long senatorial career and two of his descendants made it to the office of president.
And I am sure, that for all the shit and crap the GOPers are sure to pull on Obama the upcoming years. The Dems will put exactly ZERO effort into prosecuting the treason carried out by the GOP, so god willing we will in due time experience the joy of another Bush vermin presidency.
Sometimes, I dunno if the Dems are in it... or they simply have undiagnosed cases of massive masochist tendencies.
ask yourself this then?
what is a common factor of the democrats and the republicans?
the power players all hold inter-locked memberships in groups such as:
CFR, Trilaterals, Bilderberg, Brookings, Yale's Skull n Bones, and other lesser known groups.
Like the Gambino's and the Luchese's all belong to La Cosa Nostra. All the mafia familes compete, but of course they are all criminals. Same with the power structure in the US.
You may choose to deny it of course, but these are genuine incestuous linkages and networks of people that watch each others back, advance each other, exclude others from achieving higher power (see Kucinich, Paul, and others)
Is the government worth protecting when it lies to the People? when it violates the social contract?
Irrelevant to the current topic at hand.
Come on. That's just good old American capitalism at work. What are you, some kind of commie?
/snark
I love the smell of desperation sweat in the morning
Although I'm not sure about wanting it coming from any kind of nuts though.
Why do they always want a conspiracy? It's not like the O-man has any backroom ties like Shelby.
"9/11 troofer"? I'm one too, and you're pissing me off for tarring all of us with that wingnut brush.
Berg is the same guy that tried to arrest and get President Bush and Cheney for war crimes. So he's an equal opportunity wingnut.
The primary reason that these insane rightards hate Obama is because he's the first President in 8 years to actually win the Presidential Election and actually reflects the will of the people. Rightards hate that. Rightards hate Democracy, rights, freedoms, and liberties, everything the United States is supposed to hold dear.
..or Rahm or *AIPAC or McCain or Harry Reid or Steny Hoyer.
There's no 'Obama' in the Obama Adminsitration. Even Gov. Dean was dumped.
'There's no Obama in the Obama Administration.'
Chief Justice John Roberts, a Right-wing fanatical ideologue, has given the US Chamber of Commerce more pro-business wins in every court case involving business, than in the entire 31 year history of the Chamber.
He's too incapable and incompetent to hold together a respectable majority of the other Justices -as every other Chief Justice did regardless of affiliation.
His biggest idiot on the block, Thomas, picks one of the stupidest cases ever to try weaseling it's way into a Republican run court, out of thousands of other Certs regarding life and death issues.
Then, the maniacally obsessive-compulsive and generally creepy Alito publicly bashes our VP-elect Joe Biden.
But what we all should watch carefully - for a true sign of what and who Obama really is, is to see who he chooses for his Solicitor General. The Solicitor is the one who argues the Governments positions and has, in the past, been hugely instrumental in sifting through and choosing those cases most worthy for the Court to review in the eyes of the Obama Administration.
So far the word is it's another pro-business New Yorker, and ...yep - another from the Clinton era.
If he chooses her, the working people may as well shoot themselves in the head. Because Obama has morphed into another Wall Street hawk.
How can you morph into something you've been all along??
it will be terribly sad for this nation, but will it be the final straw? How long do you think Obama will get away with this game of being president for the non-existent middle? I tell you it will not work. The left will not remain silent while he works for the rich a la Bush and Clinton. We did not vote for Clinton. I get it. Why doesn't the media? Well, I know the answer, but I just don't believe it will work, especially since Obama isn't even in office, and the wheels are falling off. His support is rapidly eroding. I will totally support him if he changes immediately. If not, well, then it's see you in the funny papers.
The Rolling Stone article was pretty damn funny. The tin foil hat crowd just keeps going farther and farther into the ozone. I wonder when the space ship will be coming to pick them all up? Hopefully soon.
i'm gonna go not too far out on a limb and guess that clarence thomas took this on as a simple retribution...
surely he wasn't happy that obama stated - at the pRick Warren saddleback forum - that he would not have nominated thomas to the supreme court, saying he was not qualified...
“I don’t think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation, setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretations of the Constitution,” Mr. Obama said.
Does everyone forget that Obama is a Constitutional Lawyer and taught Constitution Law for many years? If anyone knows the Constitution backwords and forwards, he does.
Most Certainly he's spent most of his time dissecting all its weaknesses and loopholes for futher Executive exploitation... Yikes!
I've tried to talk sense into him, but he's having none of it. Will be interesting to see how he justifies it when they toss this case out on its ear.
John Sidney McCain was born in Panama.
At least Obama was born in US soil, which makes him an automatic citizen by location of birth (besides the fact that his mother was a US citizen to begin with, which also makes him a US citizen).
I wonder if these gasbags will ever try and actually contribute something to the world?
well if they are going to keep this up then we need to joing Andrew Sullivan and keep up the pressure on the palin,bristol/trig pregnancy thing
seems only fair
The originals of these kinds of records are book bound - so they can be indexed and retrieved, like a land record or any other kind of obligatorily public document. The fact is there is no such thing as a conclusively forged birth or death certificate. Such records have a book entry aspect - the files at the state office that controls them - and a bearer aspect - the certified copy you get when you go to ask for your birth certificate to apply for a passport, for example. For this to work, the Hawaii vital statistics office would have to rebind and rejigger decades of books and indexes. This guy is a twit and probably hasn't had to look up anything in his life.
Check this out: "Have another guy go in, do his thing, put the certificate back in the envelope. These are scientists. They should all come to the same conclusion."
.. and expedite it just like they did Gore v. Bush. It shouldn't be an expensive case, nor should it take too long to resolve. The sight of watching Thomas and Roberts squirm as they should have to concur Obama has citizenship will be worth it. It's that or so drastically rewrite what natural-born means that all law on the subject would be in fits for years. And they'd know that. They will, of course, also royally piss off military families if they don't rule for Obama. Why do conservative justices hate the military? Force them onto that spot too.
Sure, some citizenship conspiracy buffs won't be convinced even by a supreme court ruling. But they will be fueled by a lack of one. The ones the ruling doesn't convince now have to further distance themselves from the courts and this should make them self-marginalize more.
As a homeschooler, in the deep south, I'm being told about this constantly. If I have to hear about this for 4-8 more years I may just start screaming at people. Reasoning hasn't worked as well as I'd like ...
It's anathin' to git that n***** outta thar.
The heads are explodin' big time down heeah, like a pressure cooker turned way up high...so much fun to watch, he-he
Damn, these jokers have skipped right over the "twilight zone" and landed right into looney world.
This just in... the Supreme Court has decided not to hear the case.
Wow, finally the freaks will stop with this nonsense. Ha ha! Like that'll happen.
Is that somebody who has taken a few minutes to look at the evidence, and realizes that what the government told us happened on that day is a lie?
the government doesn't lie!! ever!!
They did the same thing with Clinton in '92. Anyone remember Whitewater? And lest we forget the litany of faux 'scandals' and the bevy of not so beautiful hairy women of dubious repute. I guess that as soon as he's sworn in, it will be on to assigning a special prosecutor to investigate this "matter". This is a worn-out schtick that the rethugs resort to at their times of desperation, which seems to be always. What a bunch of losers.
This lawsuit challenging Obama's US citizenship may be just as ridiculous as that DC judge, Roy Pearson who sued a dry cleaners $65 million over a lost pair of pants. It's sad how so many bitter, oblivious lawsuits are flooding the court system.
This may have started with that lady in the early '90's who sued McDonald's over spilled coffee in her lap.
were so thorough in their calls for justice, and investigations of, the Bush Administration. Obama should sue Limbaugh if it's true that he said Obama went to Hawaii to 'fix the birth certificate issue, etc.' I imagine this is Vince Foster all over, where they really are insinuating that Obama murdered his grandmother to keep her from spilling the beans. And, what really is most sickening is that even if this were in any way possible (i.e that Obama was born in Kenya; not that Obama murdered his grandmother. By the way I'd love to see that person sued who said it), where were these monsters when the bombs were being dropped and the numerous instances of deliberate, unprovoked killing and wounding of civilians occurred. Not to mention the torture and destruction of these peoples' homes and land. Where were they then? They have no sense of proportionality. That is what the media will never tell you while they report the heady case of Barack Obama's citizenship. Now, as far as the case that Hillary is ineligible to serve as SOS, that is a conversation I think we should have.
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