Republicans to Detroit: Drop Dead
By David Neiwert Thursday Nov 20, 2008 10:00am
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I guess Lou Dobbs and Co. are giving up their populist "we're for the working class" pose, because yesterday Republican Rep. Darrell Issa appeared on the Dobbs program (with Kitty Pilgrim sitting in) to pile on after Mitt Romney's NYT op-ed telling Detroit to Suck. On. This.
ISSA: I think Mitt's right on. And you know, being the son of a man who turned Rambler/AMC around, he knows how hard it is to reinvent a company from one that isn't making good cars and not making competitive cars to one that can, in fact, survive.
Sure. Maybe that would explain why, as Jon Perr points out, Mitt Romney was all for doing whatever it takes to save Detroit back when he was running against John McCain in the Republican primary:
"I want to bring Michigan back. I am not willing to sit back and say 'too bad for Michigan, too bad for the car industry, too bad for the people who lost their jobs, they are gone forever.' I will not rest when I am president of the United States until Michigan is brought back."
He also told Michiganders:
"This state needs someone who cares about this state more than one day a year."
And as Perr points out:
Not once does Romney quantify the impact of his recommendation that "without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself." There is no estimate of the devastating job losses Big Three bankruptcies would produce or the estimated $200 billion impact in unemployment insurance and other government safety net payments which would result from the collapse of GM alone. And Romney is silent on the national security implications as the builders of Abrams battle tanks, Humvees and armored fighting vehicles face halting production during wartime.
No, as John Amato has been saying, when Republicans talk about "restructuring" the auto industry, they're not talking about reordering the corporate order of things, where CEOs and other executives reel in massive salaries and even more massive bonuses in spite of their shockingly lousy performances, while shipping thousands of U.S. jobs overseas.
They're talking about destroying the autoworkers' unions. Bankrupting the corporations would nullify all the existing union contracts. Whoever bought the companies (likely the Chinese) would be free to negotiate with whoever they like -- or, potentially, simply set up shop with no unions at all.
The auto industry is in dire need of a makeover. But allowing it to collapse isn't going to achieve that. That's like trying to put lipstick on a corpse.
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And Rambler/AMC is where? I agree that those union members paid a living wage irk management and the Repubs. But they do need a bridge loan until the Obama team can work out a solution with the Big 3. In the meantime, ground those corporate jets!
My father worked at Nash/Kelvinator (pre-AMC), known for high quality automobiles and appliances. He was there when George Romney came in and gutted the engineering department. Romney went on to champion the Rambler. The Rambler was a good idea, but was a engineering disaster. Probably the worst vehicle made in the 2nd half of the 20th century. AMC's reputation was ruined under the leadership of Romney, and never really recovered.
The hell with grounding the jets. It's time for retribution.
My advice is to put all your money into equities of companies that make guillotines.
How did kowtowing to the religious right and flag waving NASCAR types work out for ya!
the Rambler of politics.
Ya know...I've changed my mind...I hope the GOP is eventually gone forever...immolated in a fire of its own creation.
Then who is the Studebaker?
A really crappy show about designing women?
I think you mean the Edsel.
Now these assholes want to "play" fiscal conservatism.
300 billion no-strings attached but can not loan money to the LAST known manufactor of anything in the USA with strings and reorganization!!! The wallstreeters[ my former colleguees] are laughing out load at what we have allowed the Congress to cheat us out of...Why have the Wall Street management not been fired....This is a white collar / blue collar dicrimination byt repubs and some chicken Dem's!!!
The repub's are stiffing the vendors just like Hclinton is still doing!!!
Do they really want to sail into oblivian? With talk of killing the unions and telling Detroit to drop dead, do they honestly think the average working Joe will vote for them ever again? I guess they have been drinking the Kool-Aid. Or smoking crack.
It seems now some sort of agreement has been reached with the auto companies. The details haven't been announced yet.
CEOs do not earn their salaries, bonuses and stock options. The union workers are the ones that do earn their wages.
look what caterpillar did ... they will do the same thing if the big three survive... UAW make some short term concessions for long term gains..
They (I think) outsell all 3 of the US automakers worldwide.
Farming, construction, and marine and industrial applications...yeah...their business model is pretty good. Their marine engines...most are damn near bulletproof. Except the 3126...if someone gave me a boat with one of those POS' in it...I'd turn it down.
John Deere does a distant second to Caterpillar in sales.
And has far superior engines...and yes, I work for a John Deere Marine Engine Dealer, so I may be a bit biased in that regard...
Speakin o' which...anybody need a John Deere marine engine? ;)
GM, Ford and Chrysler...they seem to be up the creek without a paddle.
If the agreement doesn't include the CEO of each auto company licking the sweat off the testicles of each line worker after an 8 hour shift...then I'm against it.
But I agree w/the sentiment of your post.
It won't matter if the leased aircraft (contract pilots) fly (N5116) for 5 more "meetings".
The execs who have run the automakers into the ground have got to go. But to destroy the industry itself -- the production lines, the subsidiary manufacturers, the skilled labor, the distribution and supply systems -- would be a disaster for national security. Considering the production and distribution needs the U.S. will need to overcome our deficits in green industry and infrastructure creation, it would be insane and incredibly wasteful to build these systems from scratch when we already have them in place. We need to turn the automakers into some other kind of makers.
The sad part is that this is the doing of both labor and management. one side wants its corporate jets, and the other wants its job banks. I dont feel sorry for either of them. maybe michigan should have learned to make their economy more dynamic with bringing in tech, or something but it didnt and now it has to pay...
What planet are you from?
Kolob.
I was thinkin Persei Omicron 8...
If you stop typing, no one here will know that you're ignorant.
The sad part is that this is the doing of both labor and management. one side wants its corporate jets, and the other wants its job banks. I dont feel sorry for either of them. maybe michigan should have learned to make their economy more dynamic with bringing in tech, or something but it didnt and now it has to pay...
yes i do, since if you look at other companies that do manufacture in the U.S. they need a dynamic work force, not people that cannot be re-trained to do something else... also green jobs from Michigan good luck... the new Detroit is Silicon Valley, SF, LA, and other cities that can make electric cars, fuel cell cars, and Nat Gas cars. all done using non-union employees that can think outside the SUV
Why unions are bad?
You seem to be enlightened... so please share your wisdom with the rest of us.
maybe michigan should have learned to make their economy more dynamic with bringing in tech, or something but it didnt and now it has to pay...
If it wasn't for the unions...auto manufacturing would have been COMPLETELY moved offshore by CEOs looking to make millions off of the backs of displaced workers...just as the rest of U.S. manufacturing has been moved off shore.
The UAW is proof positive that unions PROTECT American jobs.
People beleive only what is parroted on MSM. Buchanan, Limpballs, all of them blame it on the unions. The fact these guys are flying aroung on corporate jets is sidelined. But we know better.
I'll see to that job personally. It'll be difficult...but...someone's gotta do it.
Oh gawwwd...I'm sorry...I just couldn't resist.
The auto manufacturers do not have to tank completely, i.e., Chapter 7 liquidation. Why can't they go into Chapter 11, i/e., reorganization - debtor in possession?
This would completely destroy the union work force. I don't care what anybody thinks but without the unions, you non union guys would cut your pay cheque by 2/3.
Very true.
The auto makers would LOVE that. Then the bankruptcy court would throw out ALL union contracts.
cause no one would by a car or truck from a bankrupt automaker... that is why i love my Nissan Titan truck...and Toyota forerunner!!!
I think they went almost into bankruptcy, I believe Renault now owns a big chunk. R
Let's get a few things right. Filing for bankruptcy would not void all the union contracts. Rather, it would give the bankruptcy court, as part of a reorganization plan, the ability to void or modify the contracts. And the automakers wouldn't love the ability to file for bankruptcy. That opportunity is open to them now and they are resisting that. If there is no bridge loan (or bailout if you call it that), there is little question that GM will file for bankruptcy fairly soon and may not be able to craft a viable reorganization plan since, with the credit crunch, the chances of debtor-in-possession financing is slim
When did you begin being against the hiring of women?
As far as I'm concerned, if we can bail out middle men in the financails who buy lattes, then we can help save the jobs of millions of middle-class workers. Pretty soon it will be Christmas. Damn! That's depressing.
Isn't this exactly how the film ROBOCOP began?
You're right!!!
Fuckin A!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm7u0XMynDc
I heard a little clip of Mitt on the news this morning. He was saying a bailout would hurt the auto industry and what they need to do is reorganize under bankruptcy and eliminate unneccessary expenses. It was pretty clear to me what those unneccessary expenses were even though he didn't spell it out. (Hint they weren't huge executive salaries, bonuses and golden parachute retirement packages, private jets, executive retreats in the Bahamas...)
maybe GM should create a new auto in honor of President Bush...it runs on only high test gas, gets 5 miles to the gallon, can be used to carry brush and is modeled after an Army vehicle. They could call it the Pretsel.
Oh wait...they already have one of those...and I guess it's more likely to be associated with Bill Clinton...the Hummer.
I still giggle like a little girl when I hear folks talking about their Hummers.
I know many proud union members who are died in the wool Republicans..Talk about voting against your own interestss..
Time and time again. the Republican party has exhibited distain for the individual worker.....
hopefully the American worker has learned their lesson...and hopefully it will not have been too late.
Whether a bankruptcy would hurt management or not the rank and file are sooner or later going to have to take pay cuts. The world is moving towards an information economy with robotics replacing more and more manual labor and being able to apply a powered torque wrench on an assembly line is not justification for a 40 or 50 dollar an hour salary and obscenely overdone retirement contracts. Sorry but its true.
Bankruptcy and a complete redoing of all contracts would be the best thing to make the companies competitive on the world stage.
EOM
Bullshit--it's NOT true. I'll bet you wouldn't last an eight hour shift on an assembly line, and those "obscenely overdone retirement contracts" are what you get after your body's been put through the wringer after 30 years.
"Competitive" is just shorthand for "work for two bowls of rice because your neighbor will work for one", and "information economy" is neo-con speak for "minimum wage clerical jobs".
Make sure you tell autoworkers your place of business so that if they DO end up losing income, they won't spend a dime there, asshat.
Yeah because in the midst of a global economic downturn, only the Big Three should stand by contracts that were made when a single wage earner was able to support a family.
It won't be 2 bowls of rice but there will be a reduction, and it will apply to everyone. Information economy may be used by neo-cons as that but I meant that if you don't have some profession, ie plumber, electrician, computer tech, doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc you will be facing a tougher job market lower salaries.
We're supposed to be the ones who have the viewpoint most in line with reality, so why do we ignore the global slump in wages just because in this case there is a union involved?
And no I wouldn't last a shift on an assembly line, that is why I went to school and became an accountant.
We'll see how cute and funny you think you are when they outsource your accountancy job to India. Think it isn't happening already?
in give backs.
Back under the bridge troll. You only signed up to post this bullshit.
While I have no desire to see the workers at GM, Ford and Chrysler out of their jobs, I have to admit that there is some truth to part of what Issa said. I've been purchasing cars since the 70s, and not a single one of them has been from the big three for the simple reason that they weren't making a competitive product. Their cars were either unreliable, poorly designed or sucked too much gas for me to show any interest in them. Obviously, a lot of other Americans felt similarly.
Detroit has had three decades to figure out how to compete with the Japanese and German car manufacturers and have repeatedly failed. However, I don't blame the workers; I blame management.
I think at this juncture, we should be asking not how to bailout the current management of the big 3, but rather how to restructure the companies so that they are truly forward thinking and competitive. The workers don't have to lose their jobs, but new people definitely need to be brought in to steer the companies in new directions.
No one disagrees with that view. The issue is what is done in the interim. You redo contracts going forward...but to just wipe out signed contracts for retired workers is unfair. Is there room for negotiation? Always. But the fact is that management doesn't want to negotiate...for them...it's all or nothing...as long as they get the ALL.
The unions have shown an desire to negotiate when it is in their interest to do so. They are the ones who've made the concessions. Management never has, hasn't now...and has shown no inclination to do so in the future.
to red states. Yesterday on Hardball this senator that I can't remember his name was talking about states like Alabama that are not friendly to unions. It's a political maneuver to move the auto makers to red states and subsequently move the jobs there. That would help their base and weaken Obama's. We need to fight to keep these jobs in Detroit at any cost.
Rambler? How about AMC Hornet, or Pacer? Mercury Bobcat. Chevy Vega. for Gawd's sake!
The big 3 were offered money to design and produce fuel efficient cars during the Clinton administration, and all we've seen from them are gas guzzling pieces of shit. It's as if they work for Exxon.
Throw their punk asses in Gitmo.
The Pinto (Bobcat) and who could forget...The Maverick/Comet
AMX back in the seventies with a 390 CI in it...fast car but you couldn't keep a motor in it, f'er would keep blowing up
My most vivid memory of the AMX is when my 3 year old brother said, "punch it dad!", which he did.
I remember the squeel of the tires, the sound of the air streaming by, and the back end breaking loose as he did a 4th gear scratch at 100-110 mph and him saying, "Don't tell yer mother we did this because she'll kill us all for it.".
She found out anyway because 3 year old speed demons make for horrible partners in crime.
or didnt you notice?
Chrysler is done.
Ford and GM will be married shotgun style.
Dunno if it's true...or if it's a good or a bad thing...me innards tell me it's a bad thing.
I can see Ford and GM's European ops spinning off though...
They may not be willing to go under with the motherland, when they are being profitable. Ford's European operations is doing relatively OK, and Opel has a respectable market share.
the repugs fought tooth and nail to keep from forcing the big 3 to innovate
they wrote into the tax laws where companies would get a tax break fro buying an suv....but not an electric or hybrid car
im not sure i want to see another loan given to the car companies...but lets face facts
the repugs want to destroy the unions and the middle class
Nazi comparisons are generally cheap, but it occurs to me that practically the first thing Hitler did when he came to power was to bust the unions. Autocrats and plutocrats alike hate the very concept of workers who can bargain collectively. Can you imagine the big three looking to radically "reorganize" without Obama and a Democratic congress waiting in the wings? The political right might finally have realized its wet dream of breaking the back of organized labor once and for all.
Out of political expediency...not the good graces of their hearts or concern for Americans.
Also, in return...the car companies held CAFE standards unchanged and in some instances got them rolled back for trucks.
Quoting from "The Predator State" by James K. Galbraith:
"Thus, when Reagan took office in 1981 and Paul Volcker launched his assault on inflation, the great American industrial firms built during the halcyon years from the 1940s to the 1960s were already intrinsically vulnerable (from Japan, Germany). Monetarism would, in effect, blow them apart, for the double-digit interest rates Volcker and Reagan brought on in 1981 had three catastrophic effects on these sectors (steel, automotive, industrial machinery, construction equipment, agricultural implements). First, it destroyed their export markets, sending Third World economies in Latin America, Africa and parts of Asia into a tailspin from which they would not recover, in some cases, for twenty years. Second, the recession destroyed(though more briefly) their home markets. And third, they drove up the value of the dollar, by around 60 percent in relation to U.S. trading partners. Suddenly anyone who could still purchase equipment could get it much cheaper from Japan or Germany, from Komatsu or Siemans rather than from Caterpillar or International Harvester or Allis-Chalmers. In this way, the great American industrial belt, and the unions it housed, were kicked to pieces once they were already down."
Moral of the story: successive republican governments and their economic policies and agenda (not to mention the conservative philosophies on which they were based) have played a key role over time in the downfall of American Industrial might. Of late it seems that they were more interested in making money by making money than by making goods and a strong society (and where has that gotten us?). Why are we still listening to these guys?
there's nothing accidental, or unplanned, or inadvertent.
the plan all along for the Rightards, since the PATCO strike, has been do destroy the influence of unions.
they'll bankrupt the whole fucking country if in doing so they dsetroy the power of organized labor, and prevent it from re-emerging...
Mission: Accomplished...
....nothing is as it seems. It's too bad more people can't see that we're being had - slowly, but inexorably, the rug is being pulled out from under us and the US.
None of these corporate fascists and most of the politicians don't give a rat's ass about anyone who is not in their little club. We're in the midst of the largest heist in history - that sucking sound is all the jobs, cash, homes, pensions, 401(k)'s, everything Americans thought was sacrosanct, being moved into the accounts of the Powers that Be. Mission accomplished for sure.....
The below may change how you see issues such as automakers bailout, I encourage... no, challenge everyone to invest the time to review it, your future, our future depends on it.
Crash course on the economy
This is more than just a video, it's a comprehensive presenation covering the most important issues we face over the next 20 years all of which are going to start affecting the Obama presidency from the day he enters office.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
You need an infrastructure to start making cars that run on alternative fuels anyway. Inherit the factories and the workers, put them to work building the cars of tomorrow.
Then drive the cars of tomorrow over the CEOs of today.
",,,Michiganders??"
Michigoslings? Michigeese? Michigas?
I am all for helping the auto workers keep their jobs, but not the big 3's CEO's. Do you realize these pricks came to Congress with their hats in their hands via private corporate jets? Three of 'em, not even on the same plane.
If the Republicans are against it then I'm for it.
Why would I listen to any thing they suggest? Those screw ups are part of the reason this shit is happening so their recommendation mean jack shit to me. If Republicans want to impress me they would go the fuck away and never come back. All Republicans.
...but how is a bailout going to promote innovation? why doesn't it make more sense for these three companies to have to do what other failing companies do: declare bankruptcy, and go back to the drawing board?
several of the major airlines have had to do this... nobody bailed them out and the ones that successfully restructured, have survived.
... so what do you call all the billions the airlines got a few years back? A collective tip from us citizens for a job well done?
All that we got out of the airline bailout were: fewer routes, higher fares, and now we have to pay for lunch, our luggage, and even the fucking pillows.
Ironically, I think the airlines doing better are the ones which were left out of the bailout.
clearly i need to review that history more before i can comment on the money the airlines got, which ones got how much, which ones declared bankruptcy, etc.
point taken.
but you're also kind of making my point for me, are you not?
if the consumer is going to end up footing the bill, either literally or in terms of paying more for less, then how is a bailout a good thing? couldn't at least the equivalent be accomplished via bankruptcy?
Don't just review history; recognize the differences between the service (airline) industry and manufacturing (auto) industry.
Can we declare a moratorium on all usage of "lipstick on a (whatever)" from here on out? It's gotta be in the top 5 list of annoying phrases by now.
Didn't Issa make his fortune selling knock off crappy car alarm systems.
And at some point he was accused of insurance fraud with his car?
I guess, that according to the GOP state of mind, that makes him an expert in anything automotive.
The auto industry is in dire need of a makeover. But allowing it to collapse isn't going to achieve that. That's like trying to put lipstick on a corpse.
I don't see how a collapse is seen as a makeover.
No, not a make-over. Perhaps modest funeral. A plowing under. A fertile ground for competition in it's wake.
Time to dismiss a tithing/sacrificial-altar model of make believe "business," where we pay to be burdened by non-competitive bozo-biz that only rides out the momentum of now-absent original creativity and productivity.
If they go bankrupt the ceo's would simply take over the pension programs and keep the money.
Fire all the management of the companies and take back their shares
Make it a must that all products used to build the auto's are made in the USA
Get out of all investments except loaning americans money to buy
their products. Like GMAC
Hire more progressives to manage the company.
Get out of NASCAR
Get union cooperation to weed out absentee employees.
Build an american hybrids that most people can use and slim down competeing model features
Get out of golf let word of mouth sell your vehicles.
Share the wealth with employees and make management employees not gods
Universal health care instead of auto sponsored hospitalization
Opponents such as Republican Sens. Shelby of AL and Corker of TN represent foreign auto companies who attracted to these Southern states because they are non-union. It's just more Shock Doctrine -- use the economic crisis, and its effects on the unionized U.S. auto industry, to push those companies into bankruptcy in order to destroy the unions and assist anti-union efforts. If that's not a scorched earth policy and a recipe for economic disaster, I don't know what is.
...it's only a disaster for Us! None of the CEO's or politicians or bankers, etc. will be "suffering" in any way.
All this posturing is just a charade; just to make it look like they're actually doing something beneficial for us peons, so the pitchforks won't get sharpened - until they're long gone, with all the money.
before the Republicna will hold onto this line before their contributors start 'reminding' them about such contributions .....
Well I wonder during the next election will the good people of Michgan remember what Mitt said. Me thinks Mitt speaks for fork tongue. Huckabee is right about him. Mitt put his wet index finger up to see what way the wind is blowing.
And look where AMC/ Rambler is NOW!. That worked out well. Nice example, Issa, you criminal.
The liberals and conservatives both marginalize the real and necessary solution. Nationalize the auto industry and dedicate its physical and human assets to a new green America. See www.autoplant.info.
I, for one, was praying that Mitt would keep yapping. He did play pretty well here when he entered the primaries and has a lot of connections. Talk of him running in 2012 worries me but as long as he keeps running his mouth like this we may as well count MI out. Those who did not already see him for the asshole he is just may have their eyes opened. If what is left of the religious right is as uncomfortable with his Mormonism as they have been in the past, MI will still be solidly democratic in 2012.
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