Church parishioner sez pastor singled her out for the Obama sign on her car
By John Amato Saturday Nov 15, 2008 1:28pmDo you see a pattern here? More and more of the lunatic fringe are losing it. Here's the latest one.
A Fairfield woman whose car was adorned with celebratory signs for President-elect Barack Obama is furious that a priest singled her out during Sunday morning Mass and ordered her to leave.
Elizabeth Caster admits her Toyota Sequoia was parked in a loading zone outside of the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church in Fairfield, but said it was common practice by parishioners during services and that two other vehicles parked on either side of her vehicle were not addressed.
Caster said the Rev. Sebastian Meyer humiliated her in front of the congregation, saying from the pulpit, "We cannot have a car with Obama signs written on it on these premises. And I don't care who Obama is."
He continued, "I want this car off the premises in 10 minutes or it will be towed. Whoever's vehicle this is, I want it removed. I don't want to see that car anywhere around here," she said.
The Rev. Meyer did not return calls. An attempt to speak to him face to face ended abruptly Wednesday morning when he announced, "No, we're not writing that," and attempted to snatch a reporter's notebook away.
Caster said the priest followed her and her 10-year-old son out of the church and refused to let her park anywhere in the parking lot. She had to come back after the service to pick up her parents, who were visiting from Kenya.
She has since forgiven the pastor, she said, but noted a definite tone in his voice. "It was something to the effect of, I don't care who Obama is, he won, get over it," she said. "It seems there was some anger and animosity in his tone. You could feel the Holy Spirit sucked out of the church."
I'm going to keep a list.
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That's some omnipotent divinity there, who is so easily vacuumed up by bigoted clergy.
I am sure this is a pro life/pro choice issue, not about race.
If that was a joke I apologize but if not how can you claim to know? I don't remember any incidents like this when Clinton was elected. I'm not saying we can tell for sure one way or the other just that I see no reason to assume its not about race and my guess would be it is, at least partly.
Not that I'm a scholar or anything, but technically, theocratically, the Holy Spirit can not reside where there is hatred or derision. The Holy Spirit (God' presence) can only reside if it is invited in.
If the Catholic Church were truly interested in the Holy Spirit, they would address these kinds of issue in a more pro-active way, and order these few straggling souls turn the other cheek in the spirit of forgiveness and love. (I'm nominally Catholic. Much more nominally than I used to be, especially these days.)
Not that I'm a scholar or anything, but technically, theocratically, the Holy Spirit can not reside where there is hatred or derision. The Holy Spirit (God' presence) can only reside if it is invited in...
I thought that was Dracula
Religious organizations and the leadership of religious organizations are interested in obedience, first and foremost.
To expand it's also true that Roman Catholic priests, Jesuits and such plays a hand in facilitating Hitlers 'work'. All Axis powers had RC Leaders. Well, asides Japan of course.
Perhaps the flock just moved in a direction the church did not want us to go. Perhaps it wanted us hating...
Primitive animist shaman reproaches villager for eating cooked food...film at 11.
good one!
what's up with these Catholic demagogues who rear their ugly heads every 50 or so years. I'm guessing the Church has lasted 2000 years so it'll probably blast another idiot but it's wearing a little thin. Being Catholic is getting harder and harder to defend.
eom
... and harder to defend." That's why I gave it up almost 40 years ago. As far as I can tell God was pleased. We seem to be on good terms.
I was taught by the good priests and nuns that "God is everywhere". So one hot, steamy Sunday morning, with a raving priest in the pulpit calling us the dutifully assembled "sinners", I got up and walked out. God is everywhere. So God and I went to the pool. We had a great time.
Just curious - did he show off by walking on water across the pool? And did he kick your butt at Marco Polo (you know, the whole "all knowing" thing?)
If not, well then, you're an ass.
I forgot who said it first, but Jon Sterwart said it (again) the best:
"Being religious doesn't mean you're good, it just means you go to church."
This reminds me of a short story, "The devil and Tom Walker(?)", where he makes a deal with the devil and then tries to cheat the devil by being the most pious man in church.
Doesn't quite apply to the article, but it just means that just because you carry a cross made of gold, it doesn't mean your heart isn't made of stone.
I just got off the phone with Meyer. He laughed when I told him of
his notoriety on the blogs. He said, "well you gotta do what ya gotta
do!" No shit. He was very pleasant and chuckled the whole time.
Maybe he just finished up with an altar boy and was still in the glow.
..Father Meyer hates ni**ers.
The devil was speaking through that preacher! I hope she got the Lord's message she needs to find another place to worship.
God's tolerance and love in all its glory.
and let God sort it out.
to that
People should run, not walk away from organized religion. It was reported in my newspaper that a Rev. Jay Scott Newman of St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville, South Carolina told his church that 'parishioners should refrain from taking Holy Communion if they voted for Obama since he supports abortion. Supporting him constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil. By taking Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote puts their immortal soul at risk'.
One thing you can really rely on, there will never be a shortage of steaming piles of bullshit.
...and as I posted somewhere else--probably HuffPo--it doesnt occur to that asshole that to have supported McCain and his party is, by the logic applied to Obama, to support genocide in the Middle East and elsewhere. They--the Roman Catholic clergy--really are a one-issue group and haven't the slightest idea how to examine critically any of the issues about which they're pontificating (so to say).
But the priests that disagree with the party line are often made to be silent by peer pressure,congressional(from congregation) pressure and worse.
The Church hierarchy really is a problem. In big cities, you can get a few vocal dissenters if the local head of the church is in agreement and not afraid to take a stand. In small towns and rural areas, it is almost impossible to dissent because of the abuse that will be heaped upon you if you do.
That is why it is so hard to take politics out of the church. Being a member of the church is nothing BUT multi-layered politics.
It's like you saying you "support" root canals or "support" colonoscopies.
It's about supporting a woman's right to medical privacy. Her right to choose. Nothing more, nothing less.
But these neanderthals have twisted the language and made it sound as though licentious, careless women are just lining up to have abortions willy-nilly. You know, with the same thought given to flossing or trimming one's nails.
To borrow from Mike Malloy again: God, I hate these people.
But these neanderthals have twisted the language and made it sound as though licentious, careless women are just lining up to have abortions willy-nilly. You know, with the same thought given to flossing or trimming one's nails.
_______________________________________________________
Thank god I don't have these habits.
as a resident in that area, how are the press handling this? Is there any sense of outrage in the community?
Fear is the one thing that was used effectively during the past administration and the GOP race, it's no wonder that it's what still lingers after the election.
And for all us geeks out there:
"Fear leads to anger,
Anger leads to hate,
and hate leads to suffering..."
Hating,killing etc for Jesus?....I never bought this even as a little kid. I spend time in the sunday school hallway for asking questions like: 'Is there a Mrs.God?'....'Why did God kill everyone and every living thing on earth except Noah and troop yet he says 'Thou shall not Kill?'. I learned what 'without question' ment.
the preacher's office as well.
I used to be Baptist, as a kid. I got sent to the Preacher's office and had my mother called into it for asking where the animal feces went from Noah's ark...and if there were any babies born on the ark. Having been born in a rural area, I knew that there had to be some animals that were making babies, and that they all don't have the same gestational period.
I don't care if you are 5 or 55, there really are practical, worldly considerations that have to be answered. (smile)
Couldn't they just answer : "The story doesn't say anything about that" (which is true) and let it pass?
The fuckwadism of some of those God's people is truly amazing. You can tell that having their own children could make them more aware of life in general.
“The Casters say they have given $25 a week to the church for the past six years, but that has come to an end.” [Oopsie]
[Your link needs updated. New link: http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10968645?nclick_check=1]
Now Meyer is being probed by the diocese. [snickers]
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10985655?IADID=...
They have hired Mark Foley to probe Father Meyer
religion. feh.
[Deleted. Please don't advocate violence at this site. Thank you. Site Monitor]
I'm going to keep a list. -JA
yes! please do!
i have 3 obama signs in my yard - two i ordered, at $8 each, and one from my local dem hdqtrs...
last sunday morning, as i was backing out of the garage, i noticed all were gone... as soon as i returned i fixed up another, using printed logos and clear contact paper... i added a smaller sign to the side:
"Thou Shall Not Steal"
also, ordered 4 more from barackobama.com - half price! going up soon!
putting twinkly lights on also!
nothing like this woman had to endure, but maddening none the less...
and, everybody's different, but i'd've raised holy hell if that had been me...
The gospel message is about Jesus Christ and him crucified for the forgiveness of sins. NOTHING should distract from that. To give offense over a bumper sticker is counter productive to the gospel and everything it stands for.
This man is an anti-Christ.
From Google headlines:
Election spurs 'hundreds' of race threats, crimes
The Associated Press - 1 hour ago
Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.
Hate crimes up on campuses, group says Philadelphia Inquirer
Racial slurs directed at Lehigh students after Obama election Wilkes Barre Times-Leader
This is yet another example of why Sarah Palin 2012 is such a bad, bad idea for the country. This is her base. And they are truly base.
and Fisher Price plastic arks make genocide seem so loving and sweet that some folks forget how nasty their deity really is. They need a wakeup call every so often from the pulpit.
Election spurs 'hundreds' of race threats, crimes
The Associated Press - 2 hours ago
Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.
Hate crimes up on campuses, group says Philadelphia Inquirer
Racial slurs directed at Lehigh students after Obama election Wilkes Barre Times-Leader
all 206 news articles »
funny, or not, but the "all 206" link goes to a page with just those 3 listed.
As a lifelong Catholic and pro-Obama voter, I have drawn a line in the sand. No priest, bishop or pope tells me how to vote--period. And any public upbraiding for my political choices will cause me to leave that particular church.
So is there a group or groups who are going to officially keep a record of the churches and ministers who are violating the IRS's rule about not getting involved in politics?
We need specific information on how to record such incidents, how to file complaints, and exactly where to file them.
Personally, I want the churches to keep their tax-exempt status because they have enough power already and I don't want them involved in politics. But I would like to see them fined money for these violations.
Contact Americans United for Separation of Church and State (I think the website is au.org) and let them know of ANY AND ALL such things you become aware of. They are good at letting these "religions" know when they are in violation of tax laws, and will indeed file suit against them if need be.
High time these throw-back 'religious leaders' get the boot. Treason, sedition and tax evasion should be added to the list of crimes these con men are guilty of.
and welfare bums. They don't work and live off the hard earned money of others.
I wouldn't say that. Aren't they on call whenever a congregant needs counseling of any sort, for all of life's tragedies--both small and large--at any time of day or night? Then there are civic duties, research, writing, attending conferences with other priests and bishops
Probably at Chippendales?
Not that I'm a scholar or anything, but technically, theocratically, the Holy Spirit can not reside where there is hatred or derision. The Holy Spirit (God' presence) can only reside if it is invited in.
If the Catholic Church were truly interested in the Holy Spirit, they would address these kinds of issue in a more pro-active way, and order these few straggling souls turn the other cheek in the spirit of forgiveness and love. (I'm nominally Catholic. Much more nominally than I used to be, especially these days.)
I'm sorry for posting this wrong again. I keep forgetting to sign in first.
The RC church, as part of its "right to life" policy, claims it is against the death penlty (look it up).
How come I never heard of priest mking people with "W" stickers on their cars leve church?
Bush signed well over 100 death warrants while he was governor of Texas, sending scores of men and women to their officially state-sanctioned deaths.
If you are Catholic, write to your bishop and cardinal and pope and demand that politicians in favor of the death penalty get the same treatment as politicians who favor a woman's right to choose. Make sure that any person in your "flock" (baaaa) who gets singled out on the abortion issue can name someone in the same church group who favors capital punishment and demand they exit the church with you.
Get with it, people. You need to give as good as you get.
Sorry, my "a" key is being very "tempermentl."
As a lapsed Catholic, I have noticed over the years how political the religious community has become. it seems as if you don't believe in one particular brand of faith, you're going to Hell. Whether you're Catholic, or a rightie, you are simply not holy enough. No wonder i havent been to church in years.
That's what drove me from Mormonism. They were always anti-abortion, I remember such discussions during Roe v Wade, but was too young to know what they were talking about. Whilst in the Air Force Jerry Falwell made his first appearance, and I met Mormon versions in the church at Edwards AFB.
Before requesting excommunication, I gave one last testimony during a Fast Sunday. I can't remember the exact words, but I bore my testimony that I had no testimony. I said having a testimony is fine but that's part of the journey not the conclusion. I said that all testimonies seem to sound alike, so much so that people fall asleep. That woke them up.
...haven't taken place in or near a church, but it's just as bad:
http://www.wapt.com/video/17928161/
The whole parish staff was ...well, at first the administrator was a Hillary supporter, but she quickly joined the OBAMA team after the primaries
There are many, many priests (and sisters, nuns, brothers, bishops, etc) in the US who are pro Obama ... they are not single issue voters and they encourage their parishioners to be Faithful Citizens and consider more than one issue when we vote ....
Part of the problem is laziness... the press is too lazy to point out how the bishops phrased 'pro-life' voting ... also, the press loved McCain and was not going to point out that McCain killed untold thousands of pregnant women (and therefore fetuses) when he was dropping bombs on North Vietnam ...
Faithful Citizenship encouraged us to consider many issues when voting ...war, capital punishment, enviroment, poverty, the elderly, justice for all ...not just abortion, euthanasia and stem cell research..and gay marriage
But some ignorant Catholics spread about that the last four were all that counted ... and that is not true .. but it's quick and simple.
We Catholics concerned with peace and justice need to just keep on working for those goals.. We may not see it in our lifetimes but we still have to keep working ... sowing the seeds that others will reap .. that is why Jesus saved us -to give us the grace to keep working for peace and justice ....
But there are good devout Catholics and Catholic clergy that want the Church to get past its dictorial European Roman Empire roots but it takes time ...lots of time ... but eventually the Church will reflect the teachings of Jesus ...
please keep a list of Catholics like us too!
She saw my Obama buttons, and said that except for her and her roommate (another nun), that the parish staff was all for McCain. So, when I got my order from democraticstuff.com, I gave her two "Christians for Obama" buttons, one for her and one for her roommate. She wore them every day up through the election!
Also, my husband is a recent convert to Catholicism, and he is also an ardent Obama supporter--he framed two pictures of Obama and hung them in our home. He says that the local parish pastor didn't say so in as many words, but he thinks the pastor is an Obama supporter, also. The priests, nuns, and laypeople who look at the whole package are Obama supporters.
then, if you want to save your religion, you better make your feelings known. How can you, in good conscience, stand idly by while these harassment and bullying tactics are perpetrated?
the good catholics who believe in the social justice theology of christ need to leave the catholic church, en masse, pronto!
Really... have we all forgotten that religion is the root of all evil?
To quote Samuel Clemens: "If there is a god, he is a malign thug."
While I find the conduct of some of these priest reprehensible, I'm a bit uncomfortable with some of the comments, especially those advocating physical violence.
I have been a Catholic my whole life, like many of the readers here. I spent two years of college at a seminary. People need to realize that the Catholic Church, besides being a religion, is also a huge political organization. If you combined all the secular political parties in the United States, that is the political bent of the American Catholic Church. Parish priests can say and do many different things, but that does not make it church law. One of the things I found as I grew up in the Catholic Church is that priests and nuns are flawed human beings, just as any of us are. Many times they say and do things that are at odds with Church teachings and policy. Some of them are just plain nuts. I've known some of those personally (i.e. "Only gays wear corduroy pants").
One of the better things that Pope John Paul II did was to prohibit political activity by the clergy. This move was to specifically separate the Church from secular governments. Many times in the past these associations were profitable in many way to the Church. However the winds of change do blow, and those associations can be held against you.
This doesn't prevent the Church from setting forth an ideology. That's what religion is all about. If you don't like it, leave. Join another church. Don't believe. At the same time churches need to leave the secular be. Jesus understood. Render unto Caesar. If the
Catholic Church was to take the tact that American society must resemble the Church, then anyone who does not support a constitutional ban on homosexuality, birth control, and divorce cannot be a good Catholic.
The tax-exempt status of churches is a powerful tool that should be used. As a former co-found of a tax-exempt organization I know that the status is usually essential for continued operation. Most churches would not be able to operate without it. The property taxes alone would be a killer.
All that being said, people have to understand that these priestly actions and comments are being made by human beings. It would be nice if they aren't used to condemn the whole Catholic faith. I have faced plenty of anti-Catholic bigotry and I'm pretty good at spotting it in some of these comments.
Remember that the Catholic Church is one of the most diverse and vibrant religions in the word. It will be only a matter of time (my lifetime I hope) that the clergy will reflect that diversity by including the other hlaf of the world's population.
Carps
end comunication
I would never advocate violence...not like the Chruch has throughout history...But I would advocate telling anyone who trys to talk to me about their religion, I simply tell them "I'm sorry, but I abhor religion and would appreciate it if they would simply not talk to me about their invisible friend"
The damage the Church has done in the world will never be reconciled.
Carps:
While I do not disagree with your sentiments, I don't think it's that easy for people who have been raised in their religions from birth. Of course, a church is about setting forth an ideology, but that's not really all that it's about. Many --- mostly the monotheistic variety, the Catholic Church included --- are also about setting forth an empirical understanding of the universe along with a moral one.
Religious indoctrination includes not only telling people what is morally right and wrong, but what is factually true and false. Worse, the line between the two is purposely blurred. Religions teach that it is a fact that a particular deity created the world, that he did so in a certain manner, and that he mandates objective laws. Without evidence for the factual claims, the indoctrinated are told not to question, and to simply have faith --- for questions, doubts and lack of faith can, in fact, lead the deity to punish you . . . forever.
Personally, I wish that people would just leave their faiths. I am hostile to the very concept of faith. After all, look at the certainty and conviction with which this pastor singled out a church-goer merely for celebrating a political victory. He is right because he is right because he is right. He's in touch with the all-knowing deity, and no one but no one shall question him.
It may be easy for some of us to say, "then just leave that church," but I certainly understand how those who have been brought up to believe that the tenets of their religion are factually true, and that they will be punished for questioning such truth, cannot easily bring themselves to do so.
the church rarely seems to know the difference between right and wrong...and it proves it again and again and again...throughout history.
Also for your first point about weather it's that easy for people who have been raised in their religions from birth - I was born Jewish and raised Jewish, went to Hebrew School twice a week from the time I was 7 years old until I was bar mitzvah and well through my teenage years. I lost my faith after witnessing again and again the bullshit religion brings, I even tried other faiths, just in case it was isolated in the Jewish belief...it was not. So I gave it up for independent thought. And it's been working out pretty good so far.
Dahgrostabph-r-i:
Oh, indeed. Yet another reason for a church to tell its congregation not to question it if it seems to be contradicting itself. No questions allowed, and questions send you to hell.
Me too.
Me too. :)
Me too . . . sorta . . . I think. For me it was mostly the lack of evidence or proof of any of religion's claims. My questions of, "Why should I believe this?" were never answered. The moral insanity I saw seemed to be a function of not questioning what was right/wrong/true/false.
Me too. :)
Though I suppose I should add that my Jewish upbringing never actively discouraged questioning and doubt. Rabbis and other faithful might not have been terribly happy about my inability to resolve my questions and doubt (or, I suppose I should say, resolve them in religion's favor), but I was never threatened with punishment or eternal hellfire. And from what I know, that tends to be characteristic of many modern Jewish congregations.
For others, whether in more strict or orthodox Judaism, Islam or some fire-and-brimstone sects of Christianity, it really is drummed into people's heads from early, early childhood that eternal torture awaits them if they deviate. I never experienced such, and thankfully, can only imagine what it must be like to perform a terrified version of Orwellian "Crimestop" every time a possibly heretical thought entered one's head. For people who experience that, I can understand that leaving their religions is a cause of genuine mental anguish.
I was born and raised a catholic. It is hard to go to another church when I do go. I will die a catholic. I feel close to god. I don't need to go to confession to a priest because they are no better than the rest of us. I used to have alot of respect for priests, and doctors. Until I worked for these types and found they are no better than anyoneelse. If the church keeps up with this stuff they will loose alot of people.
I am catholic and I don't know what has been happening in our churches. I remember a time when priests weren't allowed to get involved in politics. What in the world happened. This isn't my church any longer. What people don't realize that all these churchs also want to take your rights away about birth control. The catholic church believes it is a form of abortion. These bible thumpers better realize what is up becauses they have no clue about it. They should have their tax exemption taken away. Some of these young people in the country need to protest in Wash, D.C. about separation of church and state.
If the Vatican and the US Confrerence of bishops do not clearly reproach and admonish this bully priest, then the Church is complicit in the bigotry and non-Christian behavior of this pseudo-priest. period.
I need to remember that there are some good and decent souls who also happen to be Catholic and that believe it or not, my liberal leanings, concern for the poor and "downtrodden", have its roots in my Catholic upbringing. (I kid you not!!) I do have to thank those crazy leftist priests and nuns from my 1960's childhood. :)
But-- I don't understand. Why doesn't the Reverend just "get over it"?
Doesn't he understand that "criticizing the President during war time" is "un-American"?
....a la "good Catholic" Antonin Scalia?
Cat Atomic writes: "Why doesn't the Reverend just 'get over it'?
Doesn't he understand that 'criticizing the President during war time' is 'un-American'?"
Oh, I love it -- excellent point. I mean, how unpatriotic of him! After Obama is sworn in, we must remember these phrases and use them in our letters to the editor. In a nice way, of course...
Just another example of why Religious people make me hate Religion.
These idiots claim that their "God" is all knowing, all loving, all forgiving, and that ALL people are his children.
But if you are the wrong kind of person or you don't share their views you are rotten to the core and you will never have a place in their "God's" heart.
I say: Go fuck yourself and fuck your God while your at it! If they truely want the emulate God then why don't you try to love all his children the same? Oh, that's right, because Religion breeds bigotry!
No, no, no. I grew up in a moderately church-going family. If you have a pastor like that, you haven't got a church, until that creature is replaced, and he must also repent, humbly apologize to everyone, for anti-Christ behavior as grave as this.
And I am only a Methodist.
This forgiveness stuff is out of control in 2008. We need to firm up the weak, wavy line between forgiveness and enabling.
IMO, the key is to forgive when the wrongdoer experiences remorse and contrition and makes atonement, not before then. Forgiving others, absent their remorse, etc., may make US feel good, but it almost never teaches the other humility or gratitude for the "mercy" granted. It destroys whatever residual moral sense the individual has, since they've suffered no "wages of sin".
I wish that priest would try that with me.
Me too....because we would have been duking it out in front of that congregation - verbally.
Like Becky boo, I''m nominlally Catholic and even more than that, I have goddamned relgion degrees to go with that nominal Catholicism.
I'm pretty sure this is about the abortion issue and not about race. There were an incredible number of pronouncements from the pulpits of many Catholic churches across this country in which parishners were 'advised, encouraged, strongly suggested' to vote for the candidate who was considered "prolife."
One of the things I was always taught as a eucharistic minister, etc., was to not create a scene. "Do not cause scandal." (Approach the individual or whomever privately.)
I think it's about time to start stripping churches of their tax-exempt status. We can begin with the Mormon chruch who recently poured in 50% of the funding for teh campaign against Prop.8 in California.
Perhaps then the clergy will realize we no longer hold them in esteem and the Middle Ages are over and the populace is far too educated to put up with their bullshit.
I'm at work and will have to continue reading later. Some impressive comments I must say.
who used to set people on fire in the town square for heresy. Add supporting choice; reporting pervert priests; and now Obama bumperstickers to the 2,000-year long list.
Americans never quite get that the Catholic Church isn't a democracy. As reported by another poster, this priest was prideful and unrepentent in his indecency. Such is the attitude of a Little Gawd abuser in a church setting - at least in my experience.
I wish I could say that woman would get a measure of justice but I think it being South Carolina, the community would be unsympathetic. They lap that type of shit up.
It was the same thing when political correctness ruled the roost at college campuses but was becoming an object of ridicule everywhere else. Rather than try and understand why they were losing support the identity politics crowd ostracized more and more people and then wondered why they were becoming more unpopular still. It's the Dogmatic Death Spiral©. As a liberal I hated it when our, um, "allies" on the left were doing it, but I'm having a blast right now. Hopefully I'll be safely in my own little senile world before it's our turn again so I can enjoy that too.
Go conservatives!
I confused the authoritarian Gooper priest stories. This one is in Bay area so hopefully THAT community will be more sympathetic to the parishioner CAST OUT.
At age 15, I made a personal decision to leave the Catholic Church; each day I am reminded how positive a decision that was.
This message is for the teenagers of intolerant parents. Leave these organizations; they are hateful and deceitful. Their intolerance uses guilt to placate your parents into submission. There souls are between God and them. Your souls as the youths of our future must rise above the lies and money that these organizations are slaves to.
In no uncertain terms, if you feel and are aware of the ills of humans like this priest; consider yourself correct and not alone.
Jesus warned of false prophets, these are them.
Then the greatest abortionist who ever lived was God himself. How many miscarriages happen every year? God-abortions. Should we thus kick God out of church? It seems this douche-bag has, even if he hasn't realized it yet.
Plus, we're told that God is the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end. He is all-knowing and omnipresent. He apparently knows the course our lives will take before we are ever even conceived. Well, if that's true, then he intended these babies to be aborted. It was part of "His Plan". If he is all knowing, then it seems funny that he wouldn't know what his creations are going to do. If we're to believe that he is GOD, then we can't believe that he can be surprised. If he doesn't know every move we will make before we have even been created, then he isn't God, he's god with a little "g" instead of a capital "G".
Don't give me the "Free Will" argument, either. That's a cop out for the intellectually lazy that don't want to look to closely at their belief system.
If God is all powerful and all knowing, then free will is bullshit. How can you have free will if your entire existence is already mapped out. You were created to make every decision that you ever make, from birth to death. If you chose to have an abortion, then that's a decision that God created you to make.
I've always found it interesting that we hold God to a lower standard than we hold each other. If God takes the life of a loved one, then we are sad and say that it was "God's will". That means God made the decision to take the life of that person. If another person made that same decision, then we would hate them forever and do our damnedest to either have them imprisoned for the rest of their lives or seek to have them put to death.
A less dramatic example would be if "God" has a tree crush the hood of your car in. Do you get mad at God? No way. If some jack-hole off the street smashes the hood of your car in, you're going to try and kick his ass.
I'm ranting. Sorry. I'm the Fox Mulder of religion right now. I "want to believe" but I'm having real issues doing it.
Miscarriages and their like take care of about 50% of all pregnancies. The body itself will abort close to half of any fertilized eggs within the first week or so.
Now we know why Catholics are banned from lineage in the English monarchy, why England broke from Rome, why Luther started the reformation. Speaking of reformations, time for another one. If catholics of good conscience were to get up from their pews when a priest makes those kinds of statemnents, and walk out never to return, the message will eventually get through. We are pissed, and we are not going to take it anymore.
Cause Protestantism is just *SO* much better...
Keep these coming. I just love the "compassionate" and "moral" religious folk stories.
Not a good PR move for the church to berate the most beloved US president-elect the world has seen in decades.
The Catholic church very well understands the importance of PR, which is why they covered up their naughty priest problems.
Good job, Fr. Douchebag!
Too much hate in this world and most of it comes from religion. Look at the wars that are going on as an example. Some one please explain this to me. I thought religion was suppose to teach love and tolerance. I can somewhat understand it from third world countries and developing nations but this country? People are being fooled. Look at Dobson. He's not even preacher a priest or whatever your religion calls them. Yet people follow this guy like he is. He's Jim Jones without the Kool-Aid. That may change.
gump:
Oh, well, see, that's where you're wrong. Religion --- at least as largely experienced and preached in this country --- is supposed to teach love and intolerance.
If you listen carefully, that's exactly what preachers tend to preach. God loves everyone, but he is all-knowing, and thus will punish anyone who defies him in any way. God will love you, but if you disbelieve or otherwise break a revealed law, he will condemn you to eternal suffering in the most exquisite torture chambers conceivable.
Moreover, many of the faithful have learned over the millennia not to commit violence against those of different faiths or no faith, but do not actually tolerate different belief systems. They don't want intermarriage, they do not want their kids to stray, and they still believe that people not like them are rightfully condemned to hell. But god still loves all the condemned.
There is one way to cure this "Reverend's" bigotry and racism--------unhook his life supporting thithing and find a new church that deals in your faith rather than trying to influence your political views.
I love it. The image of God swimming around on a pink noodle just tickles me!
$10 says the day of the election, Father Oblivion said it was in God's hands. Now he is subverting, "God's will". The best way to solve this crisis, and those like it, is to put a lock on the wine cellar so he can't get so wasted Saturday nights. At least he might be feeling a bit more civil for Mass
...what will be most telling is what she learns about her church from this.
...but tax the bastards!
The Johnson Amendment makes this kind of activity illegal for non profit 501C3's,...
Grant Griffin, a 46-year-old white Georgia native, expressed similar sentiments: "I believe our nation is ruined and has been for several decades and the election of Obama is merely the culmination of the change.
"If you had real change it would involve all the members of (Obama's) church being deported," he said.
he would probably put a toe up the guys arse.
Jesus Hulka Christ
...
I will not state that any religion is perfect or even close ... religions are made up of fallible human beings. But religion is not the root of all evil ..not all wars have been religious ...look at the wars in this century and the last ..the wars were fought for nationalistic purposes ..for greed..for power ...
I have bounced in and out of the church for years due to a variety of reasons... but I always come back, because I get a certain strength and grace to continue to work for peace and justice from the Church, its history, its saints and its sacraments that I cannot get from plain secularism. I don't know what kind of life, if any, is after death but I do know that I must work for peace and justice while I breathe ... and that is not what the secular world teaches ... If there is a heaven that is wonderful, but if not, I spent my life doing good for others and that is a sort of heaven here on earth. And I will not let the warped people have control of the Church .. it does not belong to the Pope or the hierarchy or priests or Catholics like Bill Donohue ... Those of us that believe in peace and justice and learned about real peace and real justice from the sisters who taught us (the Lorettines were very liberal) have to be here to help the next generation of Catholics learn and they will go a few steps further than we did ... and one day the Church will remember that she is the Mother that is supposed to teach by example not legislate with fear
But in the meantime those of you who think all religion should be written off and all god talk is silly ...you are behaving just like those believers you dislike so much .
moonbatlulu:
No, it isn't. I would hesitate to call anything the root of all evil.
Indeed, much of the violence over the last century was not inspired by religion. Some of it was, and certainly some of it was abetted by religious bigotry, but the wars themselves were not wholly religious wars.
I find that it is precisely what the secular world teaches. Philosophers and others who see no evidence for the existence of deities nevertheless contemplate morality. And they come up with precisely the idea of working for peace and justice. Doing good for goodness' sake.
Cool. May that come to pass.
Not necessarily. I think all religion should be written off because I do not see any evidence that it is true. I would rather people not have to buy into metaphysical notions to guide their morality.
There may be some utility in some form of some religions, even if none are empirically true, but I think that it is more than worthwhile to explore whether faith, by its very nature, eventually leads to societal ills. I tend to think it does.
But I harbor no prejudice or ill will toward the religious, and hardly seek to prevent people from practicing their religions freely. :)
It's ironic that secularism protect religions, while religions provide meaning for the secular. You don't have to be religious or a church goer to appreciate the great arts and architecture of the Renaissance which more often than not had religion as a subject. It's in our musical history as well as theatrical. Shakespeare comes to mind.
The downside is secularism introduces religion to the marketplace where it can be rejected outright or lead to religious "shopping" as opposed to tradition. And we all know the downside of the religious.
Praise Bob!!!
Politically active Churches, Temples and Synagogues should loose their tax exemption if they want to play in the world of political activism! Their chastising of a person for the Freedom of Speech ie "Obama Sticker" is a cause for such action.
Next they'll say if the natives do not convert, then they can not be fed, let them starve!
Ah the gentile church and all its wisdom!
Save me from the devout for their ignorance is so dangerous.
Tax em and kick them to the curb.
Let them pay taxes just like any other non profit corp.
"Get out of our church! We intolerant do not tolerate your tolerance here!"
Is that a good translation?
If it is , lady that church is no place for man or beast. It's a bastion of hate and it's no place to bring children.
celebrating the death of US troops in Iraq? Would that be acceptable? How about photos of dead US troops? That's what I would do.
We need to start taxing religious groups. Their leaders excommunicate people for expressing their Constitutional rights and some even endorse candidates from the pulpit. It is against INS rules for a religion to be involved in politics. They should be stripped of their non-profit status and taxed to the hilt. With any luck, some if not all will be forced to shut their doors. After all, without the tax break, there's no profit motive anymore.
Jesus didn't say one word about abortion or homosexuality, but he did instruct his followers to sell their possessions and give the proceeds to the poor. Yet there sits the Pope in his solid gold room.
Hypocrisy much, Catholic Church?
I don't remember the name of the predecessor of Pope John Paul (George Ringo). But either he or John Paul issued a statement in the early 80's saying it was a sin to live in luxury surrounded by poverty.
I was like WTF? He just described himself.
)O(
I have nothing against any religion, it is not about that. There was no good reason to embarrass that woman in front of everyone in church, and kick her out of the Mass! I thought church is supposed to be a sort of hospital for the soul, not some exclusive club. And I read the article it says when the reporter tried to interview the priest he tried to steal the reporters notebook. Seems like he has a screw loose somewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdV4Z7DGms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbFEnoITiWE
But I'm not a churchy, so it wouldn't have happened to me...
I think that church and every other church who ordain themselves to become involved in politics, that they should all have their taz exempt status revoked immediately.
Fuck 'em!
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