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First I want to say that I had an incredible time at Netroots Nation. What a treat to see so many in the liberal blogosphere gather to discuss health care and virtually every other issue we face. Kudos to all the politicians who showed up to represent their positions as well.

Anyway, a huge topic that was raging through the weekend was the state of the 'public option.' Since the Baucus Dogs haven't finished their bill we still don't have the goods to really make any sense of what the House of Lords is going to put forth. We do have the Senate HELP committee bill, but the Baucus Dogs are trying to muck up the works by stalling the process and trying to empower the teabaggers. Any member of Congress that is affected by the lunatic fringe appearing at these events should resign immediately.

I was talking to Digby at length about it over the weekend and she said she had a meeting with Mike Lux and he laid out a possible scenario to her that could come to pass even if Grassley, Bayh, Conrad, Baucus, Nelson and the rest of the paid off shills of the health insurance industry come out with a bill that doesn't have a 'public option.'

He later wrote about it in his piece: The News of Its Death Is Greatly Exaggerated

Here are a couple of possibilities for getting a bill passed:

A. The first is that conservative Senators are given a fig leaf compromise on the public option, so that they can say to people they forced a compromise, and then are brought over with all kinds of other incentives that make them more comfortable with the bigger bill.

B. The second is that the conference committee simply breaks the bill in half, one half being the less controversial part that everyone agrees upon, the other being the public option and the financing, both of which can go through the reconciliation process. Then Obama and Reid muscle the 50 votes they need for support.

None of this is easy, and none of it is pretty, but having been through a ton of these kinds of issue fights, both from inside the Clinton White House and from the outside, I can tell you that all of this is doable. These kinds of rhetorical logjams happen all the time, where it looks like the House and the Senate are both unalterably dug in, and then magically deals get done. On important bills, effective Presidents and Congressional leaders find some tough-to-thread-the-needle sweet spot, or they use some uncomfortable or inelegant legislative tool, and things that matter can get done. The media and establishment conventional wisdom, which always tends toward the dire and toward the conservative scenarios, is sometimes proven wrong. So ye of little faith, do not give up hope. The worst thing sometimes happens, but not always. Politicians sometimes sell people out, but not always. Keep fighting for the public option. If you're looking for inspiration, take a page out of Gov. Dean's book. I co-moderated this part wonky, part political, part fiery panel (along with the wonderful Texas AFT union organizer Tanya Tarr) with Gov. Dean, and I'm sharing it with you because like me, he still believes hope for a public option is still alive and worth fighting for...read on

There have been so many mistakes in the way the Democratic Party has framed the health care debate that I'm not saying the plan Lux wrote about is going to come to pass, but it is a possibility. He is a man that has credibility because he's been part of Obama's transition team and has been involved in tough negotiations throughout his political career. It will take a strong will by the progressives in Congress to get a public option passed, but they can do it. We've been holding their feet to the fire for months now and they've made pledges and promises on the record so it's not like they can duck and hide from their own words. Nothing has been finalized yet so no mater what spin you hear, it's not over yet. Blue America and the entire liberal blogosphere has been pushing hard and will continue to do so.

Digby writes:

But with the right combination of activist stubbornness, political acumen and presidential commitment, this could be a way this plays out...

This all depends upon progressives keeping their noses to the grindstone and fighting for the public option even if it feels futile. This is a negotiation and nothing is final until the votes are cast. It's vitally important to keep up the pressure however we can. As long as there is a possible scenario like this one, I refuse to completely give in to pessimism. Sometimes the good guys do win one.

We have many more actions coming up and we will not stop fighting.

Jane writes: 60 Members of Congress Say “No Public Plan, No Conference”

It's pretty clear that they're not down with the kabuki play, and are serious about conference. Well played, progressives.

Only an arrogant nitwit would believe they could negotiate a deal that gave health care away to the pharmaceutical industry, the doctors, the hospitals and the insurance companies, tie everyone's hands and keep the government from being able to negotiate costs for the next decade and then jam it on progressives to sell in their districts at the end the end of the process.

How you doin' today, Rahm? Hope you enjoyed your trip under the bus, courtesy of the New York Times on Saturday. Nice pushback to your attempts to make Max Baucus and Jim Messina the scapegoats for your grand mess.

This has been Rahm's baby all along and he knows we'll be a huge thorn in his side all the way. All THE WAY!

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58 Comments
Tax the Rich's picture

If Obama can play "Bush ball" and muscle this trough via option #2, I would be amazed.


Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.

Unfortunately what Lux fails to understand is that the backroom dealmaking he refers to involves tax dollars. This involves corporate profits.

A. No deal
B. See A


The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith

It ain't over till we say it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47bpOCTcaY


"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter

Evet's picture

intimidate the Dems into getting what they want.

Works like a charm apparently

I don't remember the Republicans compromising back in 2004 and beyond. In fact, they just shut the Democrats out and sent them to the basement for their committee meetings.

These Democrats didnt get elected to do Republican bidding. They need to put in the laws and bills that they were elected to do and it's tough if some Pugs don't like it.

Even though they are not used to it, the Dems need to get tough!! Howard Dean is one Dems who seems to know this!

Evet's picture

we've been saying that since 2001.

"These Democrats didnt get elected to do Republican bidding. "

-----but rather- in accepting corporate $$ and favors-- to do the corporatists' bidding??

theWalrus's picture

1] We get meaningful healthcare reform.

2] We don't get meaningful healthcare reform.

Any "compromise", "bipartisan" bill falls into category 2.

Right now, I'm going with #2.

Either was, I dearly hope Team Obama learns from this first of many tests to come.

Evet's picture

screw it all.

Milquetoast's picture

...you would come to your senses one of these days Evet...

I'm only 40 or so and I (seriously doubt) my social security/medicare will be there...


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Amitola's picture

appendectomy...!


"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy

then risking death and bankruptcy from a botched surgery.

savannah43's picture

Thanks, Rachel.

Shove it up the GOP's collective ass. They won't vote for ANY healtchare bill anyway...so fuck 'em.

As far as the Blue Dogs...you vote no...you will not be funded and you will have a primary challenger. Period.


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

MinuteMan's picture

... they'll be SOL for $$$, volunteers and votes come the general. Maybe there'll even be an independent challenge in the general to boot!

I agree with your first paragraph.

But the second one is false. They're already funded by the insurance industry. A primary challenger will likely not have the ability to buy TV commercials during "America's Got Talent" or "American Idol" or "Millionaire" or the salute to corporate whoredom, "The Apprentice."

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

HR 676 single payer a la Medicare for all

---

On getting a bill passed you left out one, Obama just needs to say he won't sign anything less than single payer.

Something like he said in 2003, here

---

If this flim flam passes as it is now you will wake up in 2013 and realize you have been had.


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

Evet's picture

regarding pandering to the investment banks, brokerage firms, and financial community also.

surfjac's picture

..all the talk about "bipartisanship". That is a dead concept at the moment. Maybe when the gop morphs into something more civilized, whatever that might be called, and they (whatever they're called) work with Progressives, then maybe there will be bipartisanship but we're not going to see it anytime soon. Obama administration ought to wake up to that reality and work within that framework.


Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"

Evet's picture

and the left for that matter.

Seriously Progressives really got to start "getting it"

CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents's picture

corporatist!


Some stuff you can't make up!

CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents's picture

why the Dems never use the examples that support their arguments:
the Veteran Administration
Medicaid
Medicare

Wouldn't it make sense that people benefit from their own tax dollars?


Some stuff you can't make up!

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

Medicare is Single Payer, excellent idea.

VA is FULL Government paid AND run health care (although there are private components), an even better idea.

All else being equal.

A more lengthy comment here


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

"why the Dems never use the examples that support their arguments:..."

the real answer is single payer,
--- for the pols, bargaining from a position of weakness (public plan) and relenting to blue cross dems, etc, letting oppo gain momentum, not laying out a clear, understandable plan: this looks like the work of those who plan to lose. single payer should be an easy sell (unless you're selling out)
imo

Milquetoast's picture

"If this flim flam passes as it is now you will wake up in 2013 and realize you have been had."

I say, ...Do you mean? ...that teabaggers are pointed in the right direction for the wrong reasons.


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

that's the bottom line. As if sending Clinton to speak wasn't enough of a message as to where things stand?

CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents's picture

they go in whatever direction beck points them.


Some stuff you can't make up!

Evet's picture

to the T that's obvious.

Milquetoast's picture

...way before Beck. (he just jumped on the bandwagon as part of his corporate assigned mission) He was sent to make us look stoopid.

Arlen Specter and Joe Lieberman are there to make democrats look bad. It's all setup.....


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I seem to recall you described yourself as a Libertarian.

They are on the right.

I don't have enough time to write a dissertation, even if I could.

There is an element on the left that is also highly suspicious of the state, that is the anarchists.

The modern misconception is that anarchists want chaos, this is not true at all.

They want only that government which is necessary, and they cultivate a suspicion of authority.

That is probably me.

Some people, like Chomsky, use the term Libertarian Socialism.

I don't want to get technical and thus bogged down.

Suffice it to say the Libertarians as the term is used a la Ayn Rand et al and Libertarian Socialism a la Chomsky are about as far apart as one can get.

Every once in while they may use several terms in a row that SOUND as if they talking about the same things, they are not.

For the Libertarian Left the commonweal and the rights of the individual are in tandem. The authority and organization of the state must always be transparent and justified for the commonweal.

In the case of health care, the commonweal demands the end of the profit motive.

Ergo: a National Health system.


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

Milquetoast's picture

...yeah thats me. I'm a pretty liberal guy, pro-choice, gay marriage, stem cell reasearch, and the religious right bothers me...but yeah I'm not much of a socialist. I think its fine if govt wants to "compete" with insurance companies. which means I'm ok with a public option...(I think)

but I dont want "govt run" healthcare. (I don't trust em...

p.s. actually.... I'm not even sure that a "level playing field" for "competition between govt and the insurance industry" could be set up...I think (they) are all in it together, anyway you look at it.


audit-prosecute-incarcerate

Alice X - Chomsky Nader's picture

The teabaggers want NO government involvement,

I want FULL NATIONAL HEALTH al la the VA, one step beyond Single Payer.

A more lengthy illustrative comment is here


statusquObama, change you can only pretend in

..presiding over a nation with a Democratic majority in the House and Senate. Why are compromises necessary? Put the bill you want passed out there and screw this idea that republicans are going to get on board with what 70% of the AMERICAN PEOPLE want! If the representatives of the AMERICAN PEOPLE aren't really into the idea of the Public Option, let them take their chances with their electorate. Time to start calling the shots not reacting to them; that's not what the majority does.
Not the change we voted for! I can't wait until they start the War Crimes' trials.


Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"

The Dems only have enough votes ON PAPER. Reality? Dems 202, GOP 230. Look for yourself. Congress is writing the bill, just to totally screw up the issue.

CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents's picture

we are referring to the Democratic Party as if they will take any steps on behalf of the american people. the same agenda is being followed by the Dems as was being followed during the boosh admin. they don't have any cover now and they are doing the same thing.

Follow the money. It's not just BlueDogs. the Dems got over $30Mil in financing during the presidential campaign from Insurance.

http://www.opensecrets.org/

They are not our representatives, they are an investment of the corporations.


Some stuff you can't make up!

your considered a loser if you don't make a ton of bucks and have all the trappings of "success".

MinuteMan's picture

... that the slightest bump in the economic road will bring those trapping down around your head like a house of cards.

Dems...pass HR 676 and have our black President sign it into law.

Watching Sean Hannity shit himself on FOX is worth the price of admission alone!


"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."

constituent's picture

as far as i am concerned we compromised already by taking single payer off the table. people like to point at the government/lawmakers for fault/agenda but i also point at the special interests/lobbyists. you know the 6 lobbyists per representative that inluence/co-write the legislation. the special interests will get more compromises if allowed. this has big potential to sabotage the "public option" to fail. then we'll hear the "i told you so" chatter. i say vote on agreed compromises by both parties the rest shove down their throats.

to new heights. An art form.

You have people scrambling around working a job or second job just to pay for Health Insurance now days.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?...

not only are cost outpacing cost of living/wages by 3 times. the health care industry has unfair advantages in their consumer contracts. this essentially has many who perceive that they are covered
and "pleased" with their health care content until something happens. for-profit has no lack of appetite for profit margin.

MedfordTim's picture

Thanks for the much needed laugh...

CoIntelPro.PronktasticlyAgainst.SCLM.E-Voting.Incumbents's picture

what MedfordTim said


Some stuff you can't make up!

Pursang's picture

to what Medford Tim said.

As far as compromise with the Republicans, only when hell freezes over. You can't compromise with insane people.

savannah43's picture

wouldn't it.

One autumn day he escapes his nagging wife by wandering up the mountains. There he encounters strangely dressed men, rumored to be the ghosts of Henry Hudson's crew, who are playing nine-pins. After drinking some of their liquor, he settles down under a shady tree and falls asleep. He wakes and returns to his village, where he finds twenty years have passed. He finds out that his wife has died and that his close friends have died in a war or gone somewhere else. He immediately gets into trouble when he proclaims himself a loyal subject of King George III, not knowing that the American Revolution has taken place.

MinuteMan's picture

> ... he proclaims himself a loyal subject of King George III, not knowing that the American Revolution has taken place.

Sounds like the right wingnuts have gotten a hold of some of that liquor.

Samson-'s picture

the notion that there "are a couple of possibilities for getting a bill passed" assumes that the political will is there.

i have little faith due to everything i have seen from the establishment party.

please, congress, make me a liar.

Progressiveandproud's picture

Reid and the word "muscle" are not compatible. He is an embarrassment to the Democratic party and will help sink it if he remains Speaker for much longer.

MinuteMan's picture

Though the way he's always whining you would think it was "Minority Leader"

Progressiveandproud's picture

Thanks. That's what I meant. Brain fart or something. I'd get a CAT scan but my HMO won't cover it.

Speaker Pelosi I'm beginning to respect again if she holds to a firm
public option. Reid I desperately want to go away.

savannah43's picture

Tell me: What is in the public option? Anyone? Any details at all? Guesses? Anything?

ricky's picture

It has death panels in it.


"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter

New_Damage's picture

Indeed. It appears that twinkletoes Harry has taken so many head shots over the years that he's forgotten the whole point of rope-a-dope: at some point, you have to counterattack.

Is this that point, Harry? Is it?

pissed off patricia's picture

Be sure and watch Hardball tonight because if you missed Rep Anthony Weiner on morning joe this morning, you can catch him on hardball tonight. He's kicking Chris' ass just as he kicked Joe's this morning.


Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.

neoconbuster's picture

They sold us already?

According to this video and an article in the NYT the deal is done: Big insurance and Pharma won:

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRK_Xw1KG9U

WHY IS PRESIDENT OBAMA GIVING REPUBLICANS AND BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS THE POLITICAL EQUIVALENT OF A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD?

Here’s my problem with how the public “negotiations” with Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats over national health care reform are being conducted by President Obama. By repeatedly stating and or implying that Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats actually WANT national health care reform too, when all they really want is to maintain the status quo; Obama is literally giving Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats a POLITICAL PASS for obstructing meaningful reform.

He is not forcing them to PAY A POLITICAL PRICE for organizing dishonest and scurrilous personal campaigns to obstruct, undermine and prevent national health care reform.

WHY isn’t he making them accountable for what they’re actually doing?

WHY is he letting the rat bastards walk away unscathed while they’re doing everything they can to screw him and the American people over?

I don't understand WHY is he choosing to do that?

With such tepid support from Obama and his administration, I really fear their control of a public system, as their lack of enthusiasm now will only bring a severe lack of morale in the people assembled to administer such a program at the beginning. Obama has acted like a fool, intentional or mindlessly. Instead of speaking from the MASH like units of volunteer health professionals serving our citizens for free, Obama goes to where the Republicans said to fight, "town halls". And, now, a public option is "just a sliver" of what health reform is. Bah. Sincerity like this is poison.

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