The Schwarzenegger Effect: Updated
When can we start the recall?
Reporting from Sacramento -- California's unemployment rate jumped to 9.3% in December -- the highest in 15 years -- and with more layoffs expected, economists predicted even higher numbers for the rest of the year.
The state Employment Development Department today reported that the December jobless rate was up almost a full percentage point from 8.4% in November. It stood at 5.9% a year earlier.
The rate for Los Angeles County, which like the state number is seasonally adjusted, was 9.9% for December, up from a revised 8.9% for November.
"It's an ugly report," said Howard Roth, chief economist for the state Department of Finance. "We're in the grips of a formidable recession," with the highest unemployment since January 1994.
The new data reflected lackluster holiday sales, continued home value declines and a heightened tempo of layoffs at companies across all sectors of the economy.
Arnold has thoroughly screwed this state up entirely. I propose he makes a couple of Terminator movies and donates all the proceeds to the State of California. That's the least he can do.
UPDATE: You want more of Arnuld's incompetence?
Let's start with Arnold, shall we? He's currently facing a $40 billion budget shortfall in California, the state he allegedly governs. The whole reason he's governor is because the Republicans had Gray Davis recalled over a $38 billion budget shortfall -- and guess what? As both Davis and Paul Krugman pointed out at the time (h/t to The Daily Howler), that budget shortfall had already been whittled down to $8 billion for the coming fiscal year, and would likely have been eliminated the year after that, had his policies been left untouched by Schwarzenegger.
But of course, the problem is that they weren't. Among the first things Arnold did was to repeal the state tax on cars. As Schwarzenegger himself stated earlier this year, that "gave $20 billion back" to Californians -- or rather, took away $20 billion in revenues over the years (at least $4 billion to start, plus another $4 billion for each year afterward), or half the amount of the current deficit, from the state. (He would later impose a regressive car tax, in the form of new drivers' fees, when it became apparent that the state couldn't be run on hot air and deficit spending.)
Thank goodness my partner is an RN and jobs are plentiful.
Smaller hospitals and health care centers are closing down all over the state and a lot of health care workers, including nurses are being let go. Those jobs may not be so plentiful if this keeps up.
I remember the 1981 recession. Unemployment in the Southland was 14%. In the Bay Area it was 8% or 9%.
Does anyone know the difference between a recession and depression?
I live in Michigan, and I know that Granholm didn't have anything to do with our current unemployment rate. Did she wreck the Big 3, leading to a trickle down of job loss in the auto suppliers? Did she cause so many jobs to move to Mexico or China?
Same goes for Ahhhnuld. I don't like him, though he's on the better end of the Republican spectrum, but I don't blame him for California's troubles, either.
Cosmetic surgery to keep their jobs. Or private duty for the wealthy clients.
The rich will always get sick and they'll always want what they want (need!) when they want it.
Even in the worst of times, the wealthy will continue to have their face lifts, boob jobs and tummy tucks.
You can take what I'm telling you to the bank.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Aren't they all bankrupt Abby? LOL!
It's just more voodoo economics. There is a severe nursing shortage in Canada. So do you know what hospitals are doing? Laying off nurses. I kid you not.
Soylent Green, anyone???
Too high in fat.
... though if you put 'em in a smoker for about 24 hours.
All the fat renders out...
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Eat Soylent Yellow instead. Soylent Yellow is flowers, pot, poppies, coca and all those Native American touchstones like magic mushrooms, etc.
Where can I get some?
I tried to dub him the "ONE TERMinator" knowing he would fail the state, not hoping he would fail, but knowing he would. But in the imfamous way Repugs have got to give, apparently, their party at least two terms in office before they vote for a change.
Didn't the Rethugs lead the recall of Gray Davis for less? These reich wingers are always trying force their agenda down the throats of moderates and liberals even in a liberal state like California. It's past time we did the same. Recall Ahnuld and put Mormon marriage rights on the next ballot initiative! Of course giving the reich some of their own medicine they'll scream like spoiled babies.
And they use some pretty slick lies to do that forcing. One of the things they do is say, "we gave them their money back". Guess what? It isn't their money. It isn't mine . It isn't yours. It isn't "theirs". All of us live here; every last one of us is a consumer of government services. It is impossible to reside in any state and not be a consumer of federal, state and local services. Hence, the money that is needed to pay for those services is not ours, and never was.
The conservatives deploy that little bit of propaganda in order to justify their own antisocial inclinations and behaviors, attempting to portray their sociopathy and supreme selfishness as if these failings of character were, instead, heroic virtues.
It's time for a whole lot of people to wise up and recognize when they are being manipulated and to recognize the means of manipulation and to acknowledge that the people who are attempting (and succeeding at) the manipulations don't give a happy damn whether the people they are manipulating live or die, just so long as they get theirs. These tax cut heroes are nothing but social parasites.
"I propose he makes a couple of Terminator movies and donates all the proceeds to the State of California."
I can't wait for this idiot to go back to making lousy movies - instead of lousy decisions!
Because it was too freakin' expensive to live in L.A.
I read the other day that people are leaving the state in droves, which isn't helping the tax base.
But the east coast is just as bad. Only with an attitude on steroids. I've jumped from the frying pan right into the fire, only there's snow here and it's 30 degrees instead of 70!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
The welfare department in the county where I was born (Tulare) has been paying recipients to move out of California for some time now... Poverty in Tulare County has been pervasive for such a long time, but now that the entire state is starting to flatline, I wonder what Tulare is doing now...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
When Raygun was gov. wasn't the tax rate on the rich something like 75%??
It's about time they started paying? Just asking.
High taxes can be a way of short term loaning to gov.
Taxes in the US are quite misleading compared to the less rebate friendly world.
Ahnold's not about to give the rich higher tax rates, but he did want to tax California Indian tribes, saying "it's time they pay their fair share." I wonder if he saw the irony in an immigrant suggesting that Indians losing land and livelyhood was not enough of a fair share?
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
...when it is remembered that the Natives Americans live in their own sovereign nations. They've "given" enough.
Indeed, and it's sad that not nearly enough people raised a stink about this when he was running for governor. One Native family from here in the Bakersfield area did show up at his campaign appearance here to protest, but that was about it as far as I was aware...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
...but what has a worldwide crisis to do with Schwarzenegger? You write as if Calfornia is the only state in which the unemployment figure has risen sharply. So what about Florida? Blame Jeb for that? Sorry for saying this but this article is nothing but namecalling. Blaming a rise in unemployment statistics on Schwarzenegger alone is unfair.
Yer ignorant.
Gray Davis was recalled for less.
It's not so much that he drove jobs out of the state or anything, it's that he justified a lot of his moves by claiming that we would lose jobs in droves if we didn't do them. The jobs went away anyway and now we're left with a gaping hole in our state budget because of his actions.
I agree that blaming a rise in unemployment statistics on Schwarzenegger alone is unfair...
...so instead I will take this opportunity to post a link to this picture of Shwarzengroper showing off his Nazi beltbuckle on the cover of newsweek.
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,11010...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
I like blaming Jeb for everything, just because he's a bush... (/snark)
BTW, our unemployment rate is only 7.3%. Of course, percentages mean nothing if you are one of the unemployed...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
That is because of the huge amount of retirees in your state.
No construction, no government hiring, thousands of businesses boarded up. It is indeed grim here.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
People out of work longer than one year magically vanish off the stats.
Most people do not realise that CA has the worlds' 6th largest economy. It tops every state by a large amount. Most is in food, wine and tech. My wife had an aunt who was diagnosed with ALS in 2000. Her mother died from ALS in 1995. She wanted to take care of her aunt so she and I and our two daughters moved to LA in 2001 to take care of her until she died.
As we were driving to LA from Seattle in April 2001, the news about Enron exploded. Rolling blackouts were affecting cities up and down the coast. The vitrol hatred of Davis being behind the spikes were very popular on hate radio. All his fault. Do a recall.
At that time we had purchased a 700 sq ft condo in the same building as my aunt. The refer was in the living room as the kitchen did not allow for even a standard size unit. This building was built in the '60s just north of the infamous Ambassador Hotel where Bobby Kennedy was shot. Her aunt passed in Apri 2002. We were looking in the SF valley for a house to stay in LA county. However, a house built in the 40's with 1200 sq ft. were going for $400K. We moved to Las Vegas instead. We bought a new 2000 sq ft house for $150K. This was done with only my wife's income as I am disabled. In 2000 I could walk, but had sever back pains. I found out after two MRI's in 2001 that I had "rotory dextrosculiosis". By 2003 I could no longer walk without using crutches. Now I have to use a walker for around the house and a wheelchair outside the house. I am on morphine, codiene, soma and have to pay $700 a month for drugs and doctors because the insurance she has does not pay for pain control.
We lost our house in 2007 when Countrywide sold it without telling us. We had become 3 payments late over the course of 7 months. They had assured us we would be OK, that the missed payments could just be tacked on the end of the loan. However they sold the loan without telling us. On Dec 10, 2007 we received a notice to be out within 3 days. The new owners gave us 7 days after begging them for more time. It was a nightmare.
Now, since the shit hit the fan last fall, Nevada is in big trouble. Our "no new taxes" GOP gov only wants to cut the budget by almost $3 billion. The cuts come to 10% for most services on top of 15% they cut last year. The horrific part is that UNLV and UNR would receive 50% cuts in funding. They would close. Gibbons is laughed out of the room by other leaders. Our new Democratic senate and house are now looking at how to overhaul the tax process rooted in the 30's when Las Vegas had 2000 people and north Nevada had gold mines aplenty. What gambling existed was taxed to provide the base of the economy. Today Las Vegas has 2 million people. The state has 2.7 million. We are last as it is for funding education in the USA. Nevada finally turned Blue and now the work begins to rework the system. But believe me, there are a lot of NIMBY who want services but do not want to pay a dime.
Even though we lost our house, I can see the need to raise some taxes along with cuts. Education must be funded. If it is not, look for my family and others leave and move to another state.
I was laid off mid December and potential employers come very close to having a giggle fit when you inquire about a job.
Arnie done anything right out there? I read that the state is so poor, besides cutting back school funding, they are also delaying tax refunds and sending out IOU's. Gotta love the New World Order.
You just gotta love those good old Republican values!
Yes, they always inherit money and they always squander it and then they always blame the Democrats for all the Republican short comings! Then when a Democrat wants to work to fix what the Republicans broke the Repugs want to obsruct!
Obama's starting to see that already!
would be illegal
Refunds are for when theres a budget surplas, with a deficit the tax rate should rise to fill in the hole.
No, he hasn't done anything right, truth be told... And now the county I reside in is running out of money for the school lunch programs... People are worried because there are kids who will not get adequate nutritious meals at home already due to unemployment and poverty...and now they might not get it at school either...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
What we need to do is get rid of Darryl Issa. He's the buttmunch that led the charge to get Arnie installed as guvernator.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
He originally orchestrated the recall as a means for Buttmunch Issa HIMSELF to become governor, but he ended up backing out (in TEARS - says WikiPedia) when Ahnuld entered the race.
What did you think was going to happen when the state elected a celebrity body-builder as its governor?
...You elect a career steroid using fake ass athlete, horrendous actor who is more incoherent than Dubya, let him dupe your dumb asses into believing his his sad ass could rescue your state like he does the many skanks in his shitty, overly macho movies.
You two deserve each other.
a girly man.
Hey I'm from Illinois, we've got Blago who is a thief and a liar...but he was qualified. Lol.
Qualified to be a thief and liar?
Qualified to be a thief and liar?
Oops, double post so I will say that Arnold is a dick.
a TV actor from the 70's, a porn star or a choice of 100 others who nobody knew. I cannot believe anyone wants to be Governor of California, and I live here!
Look LeftandLeft, while I agree with the disgust with Arnold, what you say is like saying, "OK America, you elected GW. You deserve each other"
Did YOU vote for Bush? Do you deserve Bush?
It's not like everyone in the entire state voted for Arnold. Many many of us did not!
Most people don't pay enough attention to politics to actually understand who they are voting for, so of course famous Arnold got elected by the idiot majority.
But dammit do NOT lump me in with them!
It also didn't help that Gray Davis alienated most of his own party, and had no support from them. If the Dem party establishment had supported Davis, he would have withstood the recall.
The comments here about "California" seem to imply that California is LA. It is not.
Northern California is a different beast.
And oh yeah, the ballot proposition thing is out of control. Witness Prop 8. All about who spent more forming public opinion.
Schwarzenegger got into power by the crooked 'recall' and Enron scheme devised by the notorious Cheney and Rove, the dastardly duo.
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/D...
Google Enron scandal.
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/D...
The first thing Schwarzenegger did to cripple the economy was repeal the car registration tax (he owned 6 Humvee) which was a fair tax that supported Fire, Police and Schools, etc. Now he refuses to sign off on a fair and workable balanced budget which the Democrats (google Sam Farr) have worked hard to create, adding more unnecessary burden to the our crippling economy.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2008/08/06/sc...
Why? Because he wants to destroy the government workers unions and (like all Fascist Conservatives) Privatize the work force thereby lowering workers wages, abolishing health care and retirement, etc. just so HIS select few can get the government no 'bid contracts', charge the state 10 times more $$$, get higher profit margins and also kickback some profits, under the guise of campaign contributions, to Schwarzenegger and the GOP, keeping them wealthy and IN POWER.
http://blog.aflcio.org/2007/06/20/hightower-d...
He didn't repeal the car registration tax. He just said he was against raising it. That is, until he was FOR it, this December.
I live in California and taxes are high high high. State income tax, car tax, .18/gallon fuel surcharge tax, sales tax, utility tax, property tax. We are already taxed VERY heavily and we are getting very little in exchange. Our schools for instance, are shameful. Meanwhile, our state legislators drive around in free cars with gas cards. Our school administrators make $200k+ a year while our schools are sinking deeper and deeper.
There is a lot of waste. But the only places Sacramento wants to cut are social programs. That is why the budget is deadlocked.
I voted against the recall and against Ahnold TWICE. Yes, he has screwed things up royally.
you are partly correct.
Gov. Davis already started lowering the car registration tax(i couldn't believe it my self)and Arnold did more than not raise the tax.
Schwarzenegger substantially lowered the car registration tax putting a huge burden on the financing of our Police Dept., Fire Dept. Schools, etc. which helped contribute to this economic Crisis we have today.
Right-but he raised again. The new increase started in January.
As others have, because I follow Cali politics not at all, is Cali's plight the result of his mismanagement or the financial meltdown in general?
Note: I ask merely for informational purposes. Regardless of the answer I support him being recalled just cause he's an ass.
A bit of both Harry. The point is that the recall of Grey Davis was for the same things that we are experiencing now only it is worse now. Much worse. IT is a republican thing. They always want to lower taxes but have no way to pay for the things that they have to do. In California there are a lot of things that we have to spend money on that are mandated by propositions. That is not the whole problem but all the problems add up. The federal budget is screwed up because of Republicans as well and the Republicans want o lower taxes on the rich. Of course they have already lowered taxes on the rich and see how that is working out. It just seems that all these money problems are because of Republicans. Always.
A huge part of the problem is we are one of only two states that require a 2/3rds majority to pass a budget. This leads to annual impasses and stop-gap measures that never really address the core problems. Right now we are on the verge of having IOUs sent out instead of state tax refund checks because the state GOP has dug in their heals and refuses to vote for any sort of revenue enhancement.
They are actually talking about having a special election to get us to vote on the budget. If that comes to pass, everyone in the Assembly and State Senate needs to resign and sign a pledge stating they will never again seek public office.
one-third veto cripples any forward progress in the legislature
the initiative process needs overhaul. it;s just an end-run for lobbyists and huge power grabs or add-on band aids for a structure that can't work. and the revolving door, term ltd'd legislature with lobbyists on the legislative floor writing provisions to bills. oh what a mess
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Add the sexist way he treats women. When is this piece of lumber going to be felled for good?
If you recall politicians for sexist treatment of women, you'd have no govt! (except for fem dems)
um, pretty much EVERY state is facing similar unemployment prospects. how is this linked to Arnold? Sloppy, dude.
Moreover, why tie up the state government in a recall when its still trying to secure funding to pay its own employees in a few weeks?
hm, yea, i was agreeing with 'Whitehouse'.
and his disastrous Fascist Conservative Agenda of Privatization. Reading the 'Shock Doctrine' helps understand their Free Market Agenda
here's proof Arnold s a crook.
(all he does is throw the Dem's a 'Green' bone once and awhile and showcase his 'Kennedy' wife and the idiot California's swoon for his facade.)
Hope these Enron links work...
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/D...
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/D...
sorry, they don't work. try Google Schwarzenegger and Enron.
You're trying to send us links to files living on your own computer. That doesn't work. It has to be up on the net for us to be able to access it.
Google Enron and Schwarzenegger, tons of information.
"Schwarzenegger Accused of Involvement in $9B California Swindle with Enron’s Ken Lay
Enronarnold1
Investigative reporter Greg Palast reveals how Republican gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger is part of a larger scheme to help Enron and other power companies avoid paying back $9 billion in illicit profits by replacing Gov. Gray Davis. [Includes transcript]
Well a new report by investigative reporter Greg Palast published on Saturday is charging Arnold and Enron’s Kenneth Lay involvement in a $9 billion California swindle.
At the center of the story is a private lawsuit filed last year by California’s Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante to make Enron and other power companies pay back $9 billion in illicit profits. The suit shows how they carried off the profits by fraudulent reporting of sales transactions, megawatt “laundering,” fake power delivery scheduling. Palast cites a 34-page internal Enron memo he obtained.
Schwarzenegger has yet to deny that on May 17, 2001 he met with Enron chieftain Kenneth Lay and convicted stock swindler Mike Milken in a hotel room in Los Angeles. The meeting was allegedly part of a plan to recall Gov. Gray Davis and replace him with someone who could make the legal threat go away."
* * Greg Palast*, author of Best Democracy Money Can Buy recently exposed Schwarzenegger’s ties to ken lay and Enron’s attempt to violate the “Unfair Business Practices Act.”"
http://www.democracynow.org/2003/10/6/schwarz...
(caution, link might not work, try google for more info.)
, thanks!
When Arnold was running for governor,I remember reading a lot of comments from liberal/progressives here at C&L saying, in effect, that it would be OK. Arnold would work out just fine. At the time I said it is always a mistake to vote for a Republican, because republicans are devoid of conscience. Since taking office, he's pretty much proven everything I warned against. And I agree with the green bones.
It's suicidal to trust any Republican.
that idiotic Prop system. It's rule by mob and NOTHING gets done. The Right and Left are thoroughly entrenched, gerrymandering keeps the same people in office, and the Prop that passed making it mandatory that all budget measures pass by 2/3 vote of the legislature is utterly ridiculous.
Nothing gets passed here. Both sides piss on each other and blame the other. Unless the system is changed here, or unless one party gets both the Governorship and 2/3 of the legislature, this state is toast.
It doesn't help that SAG and the Producers piss on each other as well which is killing the local economy here in LA.
Prop voting will kill a state. It's only special interests that fund and propose them . . . not "the people".
I'm a 3rd generation California native who left. California prospered and shined under the Browns (Pat, then Jerry). Then you elected Reagan (8 years), Dukemejian (8 years), Wilson (8 years), threw out Davis on trumped up (neocon) charges, and now Arnold. They have destroyed the state's economy and infrastructure. I can't stand to even visit anymore. You deserve what you get.
I don't claim 'expert' knowledge of the issue but isn't the California
legislature equally responsible for any of the state based economic
challenges? When Arnie was elected I confess I followed it from my
state with a great deal of laughter (Grey Davis didn't seem terribly
impressive either). However, in minor defence of Arnie and Grey,
they both seem to have a drunken, 'anything to stay in power', group
working as their state's legislature. Their entire economic system
seems to be based on the expectation of continual massive growth and
therefore large tax revenue increases. The best they could come up
with was a plan that potentially paid for a third of their deficit
because of a seeming unwillingness to consider any sort of cuts or
restructuring.
I am about as liberal as one can get and the problem here is really the legislature. Governors come and go but our legislature is extremist and entrenched . . . on both sides of the aisle. They are much more at fault than the Governor.
We have term limits. They are not entrenched any more.
Sorry, but term limits are part of California's gridlock problem. Term limits are a Conservative gimmick that was foisted on the American people in order to create weak, ineffective government - just what you see in California.
The solution to the incumbency advantage is to pass campaign finance laws that create a more level electoral playing field, not to establish idiotic time limits that deprive states of their most knowledgeable and effective legislators along with the authentic dead wood losers.
I didn't say term limits was a good thing. I just said that we had them which takes care of entrenched politicos. I think I agree with joe here.
It's not as simple as all that. Arnold is boxed in. State law mandates a balanced budget. He was profiled in an entire episode of PBS Nova in Green research and development. He has created goals for reducing carbon by as much as 80% in California's atmosphere, bringing it back to 1990 levels. He champions alternative energy research (I'm not sure if state money's involved or not). He insists the greening California will not just cost California, but ultimately save it money, and create new good jobs. Additionally, California has the same problem as Texas, New Mexico and Arizona of illegal immigration.
So if/when California's economy tanks what will they blame: Arnold's economic policy, illegal immigration, or the future of alternative energy research?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You've said this very well.
These 3 states you mentioned do have their own set of issues to deal with. Granted, these particular issues do spread through out the whole country. But by in large, these 3 states have more of the lions share of the problem.
As I've said before, No one can run California. All you can do is hang on.
I wasn't in favor of recalling Davis. And I'm not in favor of recalling Ahnuld either. His hands are tied. But he better figure out a way to untie his hands and get the state on the right path.
Otherwise, this state will be screwed for over a decade.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
This sounds like you picked up my aside about illegal immigration, but my fear is people, conservatives in particular, might end up blaming Greening initiatives (they're already grousing about illegal immigrants.)
Until FDR's era states, including California, could block American citizens from entering from other states, if they had no job waiting for them therein, as vagrants. That's what John Steinbeck's book, and the movie, The Grapes of Wrath were all about.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Between a Recession and a Depression?
In a Depression the nation ADMITS they're out of jobs and times are tough. The politicians ADMIT it.
In a Recession, Wall Street is still in charge PRETENDING hard times haven't hit so they can continue with their sale of phony stocks and with their withdrawl of profit.
Maybe the true difference is that when WALL STREET has no further profit to take it's a DEPRESSION.
I would say the key difference is a recession is defined as at least two quarters of reduced economic activity. Whether that's just failing to grow as predicted or actual percentage numbers going down even just a little, I'm not sure, but I think it's the latter.
A Depression is when the economy ceases to function all together.
Depressions can last for years, the average being six.
One's is on life-support, the other is dead.
And the economy is more than just Wall Street, there's also Main Street and House Holds. But Wall Street dominates the economy now, so in effect you're summation is correct.
Additionally the average guy on the street affected by the downturns is affected pretty much the same no matter what we call it.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Yes Arnold has screwed up, no question, but John you are looking at numbers that are the result of a national and now global meltdown and throwing the Governator under the bus for much which rightly belongs on heads of people in Washington.
You are also very wrong on this bailout and stimulus non-sense. The economy is in a correction and both goofball parties are trying make political points by stopping the correction from correcting. The stuff that should have been stopped was all the insane lending and underhanded business tactics that lead up to this point.
But no one wants to stop a gravy train oh no those were good times. It’s too late and now the market is doing what it must. It doesn’t even matter if you believe me or not, in about three years it will be more than obvious that trying to apply the brakes after you fall off the cliff does you no good.
Right now the Democrats and Republicans are both engaging in the ultimate hypocrisy.
Democrats asked Bush and the GOP where the money was going to come from for the wars? Republicans avoided that question like the plague. Now Obama wants to invest in our nation with massive amounts of spending, why are Democrats not asking the same question here? Where the hell is the money going to come from?
Republicans rubber stamp spending with Bush and voted to pass the Neanderthalic $800 billion bailout along with the Democrats. Now suddenly when Obama gets in office and wants to invest they are suddenly concerned about where the money is going to come from? They are suddenly responsible? We know damn good and well they would be doing the same crap had they won office and of course the Democrats would be suddenly become responsible.
Piss on both parties John, they are hosing our country because they can’t pull their heads out of their political asses and do what is right. Neither party has the balls to stand up and tighten the belt like they should. That is what you do when you have maxed out all of your credit cards and are broke. You stop spending, cut f***ing credit cards up, pay the damn things down, eat beans and rice, and get your finances under control! The dollar is going to be destroyed and people on this site which up until now has gotten a lot right are now starting to endorse asinine fiscal policies that will hurt this nation even worse than it is.
You guys were warned and you didn’t listen
So go ahead keep throwing fuel on the fire because lord knows that will create the need for more fire fighting jobs. It makes about that much sense.
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
The problem with your construct is republicans spend horrendous amounts of money on war, the destruction of life and property. If the immorality of such acts weren't enough to forestall them, the very destruction of our weapons and armaments we spend so much upom should seem to give them pause.
Democrats are now working on what amounts to investments: education, health and infrastructure. Not only will it give relief now, it's an investment in our futures. And as the business-classes say, "You have to spend money to make money."
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I am not favoring either party, Dem's tax and spend, Rep's cut taxes and spend anyways. Which is worse?
The investing in America argument is a load
The World Won't Buy Unlimited U.S. Debt
Peter Schiff says it as clearly as it can get
Excerpt from Peter Schiff's Wall Street Journal article of January 23, 2009
Barack Obama has spoken often of sacrifice. And as recently as a week ago, he said that to stave off the deepening recession Americans should be prepared to face "trillion dollar deficits for years to come."
But apart from a stirring call for volunteerism in his inaugural address, the only specific sacrifices the president has outlined thus far include lower taxes, millions of federally funded jobs, expanded corporate bailouts, and direct stimulus checks to consumers. Could this be described as sacrificial?
What he might have said was that the nations funding the majority of America's public debt -- most notably the Chinese, Japanese and the Saudis -- need to be prepared to sacrifice. They have to fund America's annual trillion-dollar deficits for the foreseeable future. These creditor nations, who already own trillions of dollars of U.S. government debt, are the only entities capable of underwriting the spending that Mr. Obama envisions and that U.S. citizens demand...
To read the entire article
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1232669889143...
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
Easy. The 'Buy now, let our grandkids worry about paying later' deficit method of the Thugs.
Since I was a kid, I've heard this 'Tax and Spend' bullshit putdown by the Thugs, and I gotta tell you, that even prepubescently, I knew that it was a better plan to have money to buy what you need/want. Not that I have personally practiced that, but THAT experience gives me all the proof I need.
Have a clear cogent plan as to where you are getting you funds in the here and now. 'Tax and Spend' has got it all over 'Borrow from the Chinese, cut taxes for the wealthy and spend'
Really, did you have to ask?
me-oww!
If you look at my post and see what I am saying you will realize taxes really don't matter, it's all a load of crap both parties use to make us think one side is better than the other, the Godzilla sized elephant in the room is foreign debt and our insane deficit spending.
Read Peter's Schiff's article linked above, go and see what people like Jim Rogers, Marc Faber, Max Keiser, and Robert Kiyosaki are saying.
Just look at what the FED is doing to our dollar, Obama wants to do more of it, assuming other countries are willing to play.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/fredgraph?s[1][id]=AMBNS
Anyone want to take a stab at it and explain how the information on that chart is good?
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
"The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as
fewassumptions as possible,eliminatingthose that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory."make as few assumptions as possible
Can we assume that our world is operated by human beings?
Can we assume that our world is operated by a financial system?
Can we assume that human beings make mistakes?
Can you help me, by listing additional irrefutable assumptions?
We can all make accusations and or point fingers, though in my opinion it only delays the truth.
Was the TARP a mistake? > http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/docume...
I never cared for history while in school, I do now...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Interesting thing, "Invisible Hands of the Market Place," "Economic Forces," "The market-place self-correcting," sound as borderline occultic, as galvanic fluid and humors, yet this is what we base our future hopes for an economic paradise upon.
And VegasRage has a point, there's been at least a couple of conventions of Nations Governors, pleading with booshco to do something. And most of our nation's governors at the moment are republican.
(I wonder if they passed on the cost of running and attending their conferences to their taxpayers?)
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Can we assume that a politician, regardless of party affiliation, is always working to ensure his/her OWN best interests, while screwing the citizens???
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 10:07 — Amitola
"Can we assume that a politician, regardless of party affiliation, is always working to ensure his/her OWN best interests, while screwing the citizens???"
Is the current situation at hand, the cause of a "politician"? I believe a politician too be a contributing [factor] though, not the cause.
"his/her OWN best interests", Is the current situation at hand, in "his/her OWN best interests"?
Are "politicians" not citizens?
Thank you for your input, I believe your comment too have great merit! In addition please let it be known that I don't claim to have the answer other then those assumptions, stated above.
Amended: Amitola, related too your political assumption as noted above, my basis for concurrence in part, are derived from sources such as this > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMM5ET36jWA&eu...
I can't say for sure if it's true, though I've not found much information too discredit it. In addition, I'd like some financial experts to explain to me why I should disregard same. The congress is suppose to delve into it next month and I hope to learn more.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
It may be time for California to institute progressive property taxes. That way someone owning a house worth more than $1 million would pay a higher property tax percentage rate than someone owning a house of $500,000. You'd have to institute a progressive sales tax for real estate transactions so that when all the rich people tried to sell their houses to avoid the new property taxes Californians would reap the benefit. You take the increased taxes and, as Lewis Black said, use it to build a really big f***in thing and this would put people back to work.
ps: You could then give property tax credits for every level of L.E.E.D the owner of the house achieved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)
*This* is where all our troubles began.
all the rich f***s would cry like hungry babies if Prop 13 were repealed and my idea were implemented. Wealth horders are bad, bad poeple.
Pretty far down the thread to finally get to the crux of the matter.
Hey, Howard Jarvis, California thanks you for it's 47th in the nation public schools. Oh. and Howard? Fuck You!
as you know, property taxes are paid yearly on assessed value. the formula was changed. it, 13, passed in part b/c regular everyday (esp, fixed income) people were not able to pay rising property taxes and were losing their homes. but there was mischief in the howard jarvis plan
with prop 13, the tax assessmt basis was changed (for both homes and business properties) and taxes could not be raised w/o a 2/3 majority. also, fees were not considered taxes so those were ok.
anyway, you all know the norquist bit... and its self fulfilling prophecy.
Having come from a family that has lived generations there back to the territorial days, I have a pretty sound history of the state.
Back in the day when California was economically sound, there was NO PROP 13 forcing one group to carry the tax burden for another. Although PROP 13 did serve as a wake up call for state government to quit OVER taxing homes.
Tax base was built on business taxes as well. Businesses were NOT given a break to move into California. They were held to the letter of the law pretty much, and they were taxed to support the base of the community. It seemed to work well. Corporations paying their fair share I mean.
Now days, under republican retardo politics, everyone has their hand in the till and nobody wants to pay taxes. They are like the monkey who won't let go of the banana inside the box and sits there starving because it can't get it's hand out.
There is a lot of truth to calling their leadership monkeys on that basis.
Because of this the Unemployment checks aren't going out.
Why?
1) Too many layoffs at the UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE! They can't keep up wiuth demand
2) We're broke.. California doesn't have the money.
I was laid off Dec 18 and still have yet to get a check. Think my landlord will understand?
-Dave
I wonder if the good people of California regret voting for a movie actor who had no experience in government.
But his movies were cool! He blew lots of crap up!
Wasn't Arnold going to terminate the deficit?
Arnold didn't screw us up, CA voters can primarily thank themselves and Bush's handling of the economy at large.
Why are CA voters to blame for the budget mess? Oh let's see; how about a billion for a high-speed rail we've lived without for years? How about a billion for more prisons? How about a billion for children's hospitals when proponents never told us why they needed the money?
A billion here and a billion there with each election cycle, and pretty soon you're talking about real money! And every time the voters approve one of these measures, a lot of them do so because the proponents say, "and we won't have to raise taxes because it's a bond!" We dug ourselves into this hole with voter irresponsibility.
There are some good reasons to dislike Arnold, but the current budget mess is our fault, not his.
California's economy is in the crapper - along with the rest of the country - because of conservative mis-rule in Washington, not because of Schwarzenegger. And California has been fucked up now for a pretty long time: going back to Prop. 13 or maybe even to Reagan.
I moved out of California 3 and a half years ago, basically because I didn't grow up there and finally got sick of the heat. My take on Schwarzenegger is that he has been a pretty good governor. It's a huge (too huge, really) fucked up state with short-sighted, entrenched interests on the left and the right. He's done about as well as anyone could have. What do the Democrats have to offer as an alternative? Grey Davis was a complete ass-hat. Cruz Bustamante was a big, fat Zero. Brown? Villaraigosa? Newsom? Good luck with that.
Amen. He actually did a reasonable job governing from the center and as Republicans go, was a hell of a lot more tolerable than what we see on the national scene. If I had to guess his party affiliation, I would have said blue-dog Democrat.
He's not an evangelical, he's willing to compromise on taxation, and I think he takes a fairly long view of policy. The only place where he won't budge is where MOST politicians here won't budge: Prop 13.
Between Prop 13 and billion dollar bonds passed as voter initiatives every election cycle, there's no way for us to get out of the budget death spiral.
So why was Gov Gray Davis removed from office?
And this Govenator inserted for the GOP with the help of Enron?
Californians best wakey-wakey that Arnold is a puppet for the GOP although he takes great care in public media to dispell that in which he succumbed.
If he was so middle of the road he wouldn't have ran in the highly partisan republican party and if he was a better alternative to Gray Davis, then why is the state in much worse conditions under his presiding?
If Californians would only have gone along with the Governators idea of cutting state employee wages and benefits while increasing spending for businesses that sent their financial state money presents to executives and creating jobs overseas.
Wake up California. Its not about gays or abortion. its about standards of living. Go ahead let the GOP "Ditto-Heads rule and divide you.
Where I'm sitting from, the Democratic majority in the Legislature has done NOTHING to do ANYTHING about the budget, job losses, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING except to bloviate about the evils of Arnold.
Who is holding up critical legislation in the legislature?
What percentage of legislature does it take to over-ride obstructive efforts?
I know,
If you closed the prison system and just let those people out. Let everybody get a gun and carry it. In banks, on airplanes, Stop building or repairing roads, sell water, and energy management to China, fired the Fire Dept., Abolish Public Schools altogeter.
The everybody could live happily ever after with all the money they need. Go for it.......................Limbaugh awaits you in his gated community. Be advised, that gate will not hold much longer as the levies gave to Katrina.
I love reading this Blog but I really think you need to take a step back from the 'us or them' koolaid and understand there are people who are corrupt and people who are not. Arnold is not. His values may be different, such as desperately wanting fiscal sanity and having trouble getting it with the state legislation and already in place state mandates, but you can't blame him for the fact that California has spent more then it earned for like forever.
He tries to do the right thing and yeah union workers will suffer for it, but sorry the budget has to be balanced somehow or you end up like the US now, broke and digging a huge hole to try and stimulate your economy.
I live in Los Angeles, he's a moderate republican, and he's not corrupt, and I think his heart is in the right place and we ALL need to suck it up and take cuts to save the state.
Arnold could not have beaten Gray Davis. With some help from Enron and others. Davis was grilled for his economic condition. Actually you threw him out.
Arnold comes in on one of the most partisan election conditions that Rep Issa help fund big time. Himself a highly partisan. The republican party at the time wanted to smite all that disagreed with then and Arnold found himself attracted to these extreme party platforms, why would anyone do that?
Its not about us vs them!
You kicked Gov Davis out for far less than where Arnold has taken you. Why do you put up with that?
Arnold is very slick on projecting what he is not.
Hey, I liked alot of his movies.
Really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSz4jOGior8
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What are you smoking?
Any moderate Republican could have beaten Davis. Davis was a joke. The problem was that the Right Wing Nutjobs who controlled the California GOP kept nominating loonies like Lundberg and Simon to run against Davis. He beat those two Nutjobs easily, but he would have lost if they'd nominated a centrist like Riordan. Issa (another Nutjob!) was behind the recall: with his ultimate goal to become governor himself. Once Ahnuld declared, Issa had to back out, knowing that he had no chance. Millions of dollars were wasted on the recall with the end result being that the GOP installed Exactly the same sort of moderate that they could have elected in the 2 elections that Davis won.
Ten years ago, the Republicans tried to feed me some bullshit lies about an exceptionally gifted group of Republican governors being responsible for the economic boom of the 90s. Guys like Dubya, Ridge and Tommy Thompson. We all know what 'talents' those guys turned out to be. Now Democrats want me to blame the current mess in California on Ahnuld. BULLSHIT! The good economy then was due to Clinton and the crap economy now is due to Bush: the governors have very little control over it.
So the right wing nutjobs found Arnold wanna-be dabbling in politics down in Hollywood.
Ca Representative nutjob D. Issa was one of them that not only help fund the Davis ouster, but heavily funded Arnold's campaign.
They were overjoyed to convince Californians that Davis was that bad because he was simply a Democrat. Which means he was a Liberal. Which means he is a Socialist, communist, latte drinking terrorist loving unpatriotic politician. That whined over Enron's end run over California's citizens with Enron's california energy malfesiance policy that hurt Davis. Even when he tried to re-negotiate terms with Enron. The Bush Adm made sure Enron was in the drivers seat.
I'm not saying Davis was the best guy for the job. But you threw him out for much less than you have put up with Arnolds agenda and the reaping without sowing Arnold has set as his policy.
With Grover Norquist in the foreshadows of Arnold and the likes of Issa, Be prepared to sneak across the border of Mexico to pick vegatables there. If they let you.
You may think you have enough financial positioning to ride it out. Good luck with that. Hope there is something left for you to retire with after suviving the financial holocaust.
Because this is what the Issa's, Norquists, et al want. And Arnold will be used knowingly and gladly to propduce a failed system that they can tell you it failed and theefore can't work. Even though for decades it has been working. They will not try to make things work for the betterment of the state, nation, or society. They desire the royale dictatorship.
They will tell you that a free market is the only way to survive and it works. Gov't out of the way. Then they will tell you how to live once Gov't is powerless. But there will be no "free Market" in the world they can point to that exists and works as they explain this "free market".
When the big business that is to create jobs that wants to move in to San Diego near the border is Blackwater. Think trice.
They want to suck at the state and federal trough to suck money to watch the border (more expensively) than our existing border patrol. They will only have loyalty of that which a Merc can have. As long as the pay checks roll in. That is from your taxes to corporate execs. At least now you can vote out or call and complain to your representatives. Try calling and complaining to a Corporate exec. Better yet, try removing a corporate executive from his company as we can a political elected official. The accontability is never going to be there. Does Arnold have concerns over any of this?
haven't heard them..........
Does anyones rent or mortgage payment go down when wages are forced down?
Of course no executive bonus's are given out in financial troublesome times. Even though bonus's are tax write offs.
Just stop paying taxes altogether and let corporations run your lives.
Who needs the old piece of paper Bush refered to?
There is no cost adjustment(s) for food, gas, housing, or even health care. To compare with actual wages either stagnating or reduced.
Norquist said, " I want to make Gov't small enough to drown it in a bath tub". Who enforces the Constitution then?
Grover is using California as his little experiment. You are his lab rats.
It is a depression.
We can't continue to live on borrowed money, whether it is the government or the consumer, or business.
Arnold neither gave back to Californians nor took away revenues from the state. The money was earned by the tax payers. The government seems to forget that little fact, along with Phoenex Woman.
Arnold certainly has screwed up here, right along with the state legislature, which seems to think the tax payers are a cash cow for them to milk. Guess again.
I did not vote for the borrowing, i did not vote for the spending. I am victimized by both political parties.
I won't sign any petition to save 200,000 state workers jobs, as i am not a cash cow. The state is bankrupt. There is no money to save people's jobs at the expense of the tax payers.
An 825 billion dollar stimulous package is more debt, the same thing Arnold did. If it didn't work for Arnold, why should it work for Washington? The answer is that it won't.
I would recall Arnold and i would recall every state legislator as well, republican or democrat.
while Republican Obstructionists refuse to compromise at the expense of the people of California.
"By Dave Johnson
Speak Out California
One more attempt to get a state budget in place collapsed -- blocked by the Republicans because it included tax increases. Republicans insist that the budget be balanced with billions and billions of dollars in cuts in our schools and fire protection and the other things most of us want our state to do.
I would bet that most of California's public doesn't know what is going on with our budget. They only know that there isn't one, and that this is causing problems. It makes people angry, and causes them to lose faith in government.
People know that government employees are being forced to take pay cuts, and many are being laid off. But they really do not know why.
Yesterday's budget vote was 45-30. The public doesn't understand that this means that there were forty-five votes FOR the budget and only thirty votes against, and this is why it failed. They don't understand that because it does not make sense. But because of a trick that the Republicans were able to play on the public the rules are that it takes a two-thirds vote to pass a budget. So an overwhelming vote of 45-30 FOR the budget means that the budget does NOT pass!
Every Republican in the state has taken a vow not to raise taxes on wealthy corporations or massively wealthy individuals. They won't vote to require people who buy yachts or private jets to pay the same sales taxes that the rest of us pay when we buy cars. They refuse to ask oil companies to pay fees when they take our oil out of the ground and sell it to us. (Maybe they understand that such a vote will dry up their campaign funding...)"
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/...
Pretty far down the thread to finally get to the crux of the matter.
Hey, Howard Jarvis, California thanks you for it's 47th in the nation public schools. Oh. and Howard? Fuck You!
-------------------
Total nonsense. California is not 47th because of prop 13. Quit using prop 13 as a scape goat.
For schools. For parks. For libraries. For higher Ed. So no, I won't quit blaming Prop. 13 or the anti-tax crazies who passed it. But maybe you should consider quitting the pipe. Crack makes you wack, Ron.
Arnie can't win, when they let him run for President, the way Bush and Reagan won, since he won't be able to ride off someone else's economy.
As a bodybuilder, he was on steroids, as an actor, he stunk, as Governor he got his ass kicked by the teachers and nurses, after he used a movie line directed at them. People who voted for him were voting for their action hero. He's been a joke his entire life. He can manage his own money, but for the state, he's been a huge bust.
While the idiots in Congress are bailing out failed banks with "toxic" assets of their own making, our states, all of which provide ESSENTIAL services, are being allowed to go broke.
This is insanity. The Feds and Obama should declare an immediate moratorium on further dispersal of federal money to the banks, and redirect it to the states ASAP.
It is obvious to a social services worker like me; can it not be so very obvious to them?
Lets hope the people of CA have gotten smarter. Don't vote for him if he runs for Senator or congressman. Let's pray they never repeal the law that can make him a president. We don't need to spread him to the rest of the states. His star has died and its time for the big lug to retire.
Southern Yankee
I'm not saying Arnold is a good governor or even a good person, but a whole lot of states are going through record unemployment and deficits. I don't think this is necessarily attributable to his reign...
Yes, but not every governor is trying to solve their respective state's deficit troubles by taking a hatchet to social services that are vital help to the poor, and refusing to raise taxes on those who will not bear the brunt of the unemployment rates...
I am still wondering whether I'll be able to hang onto some Medi-cal services that are very important to me. They were amongst those that Ahnold would like to ax first.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Well I don't know... I don't know the specifics about California and what's being cut etc; however, I do know Ohio with a democrat as governor is slashing social services, schools, infrastructure and basically everything else. Ohio is not alone and neither is California.
There's also budget concerns here in Washington State, along with high unemployment
Well then I would wonder what the Ohio governor's viewpoint on tax rate raises? Part of the reason for the impasse in Sacramento is Schwarzenegger's unwillingness to even entertain the idea.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
(You've written a play, Fool? For whom? The king?)
What is it that you know that we do not?
What is it that a scurrilous-faced fiend
brings to this; the pulsating light?
Why, at the
midnight of your age
do you twist such horrible faces
and hurl such abandoned rubbish
upon the ominous lance of vanity?
You’ve neither the will
nor the bravery to soar,
dart yourself in and out of the absurdly pitched quagmire
of red-white-and-blue.
Your demeanor sops the very honey of life,
drains the usefulness of all that is good.
You’ve neither the mindset
nor the nobility to act heroically.
So why do you pretend?
Why do you make-believe
as if you’re anything but what you are;
an inept hack.
A fad.
A clown.
A fool's fool.
A know-nothing pawn.
Your play, in its final act, is a tragedy.
Tell us what you know that is unknown to the eagle?
What would you tell the fish darting in and out
the murky waves scornful of your oily laughter?
How purified things will be after you launch your grimace!
The fish, Ms. Malkin, fear the eagle’s shadow less…
Copyright © 2007 mrp / thepoetryman
Make no motto of love that worships war
http://www.veoh.com/videos/e95353KYswQtte
http://www.veoh.com/videos/e95357m3AXNgrt
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