Catholic nuns endorse HCR in defiance of bishops' mandate
Wow. On Monday, Catholic Bishops released a letter opposing the Senate health care reform bill because it didn't contain the Stupak language. While they acknowledged differences with the Catholic Health Association, their message was clear: they were speaking as the official and authoritative voice of the Catholic Church.
This analysis of the flaws in the legislation is not completely shared by the leaders of the Catholic Health Association. They believe, moreover, that the defects that they do recognize can be corrected after the passage of the final bill. The bishops, however, judge that the flaws are so fundamental that they vitiate the good that the bill intends to promote. Assurances that the moral objections to the legislation can be met only after the bill is passed seem a little like asking us, in Midwestern parlance, to buy a pig in a poke.
In a clear break with the bishops, 60 leaders of religious orders representing 59,000 nuns have joined with the Catholic Health Association to support the Senate bill as written.
The letter says that "despite false claims to the contrary, the Senate bill will not provide taxpayer funding for elective abortions." The letter says the legislation also will help support pregnant women and "this is the real pro-life stance."
This is huge for a number of reasons. The nuns signing this letter are the ones in the trenches, serving in Catholic hospitals and health care clinics across the nation. They represent those who see the wreckage left behind when people are denied access to care until it's too late, the damage done when poor women cannot get prenatal care, and when the sick are left to their own devices.
Even so, the word of the bishops is regarded as the word of the Church. For these nuns to stand in defiance because they are truly pro-life, before and after birth, is a stunning eye-opening development.
Politically, Bart Stupak now has political (and religious) cover to support the bill, should he so choose. It will come down to whether he stands on the side of the authoritarians or those in the trenches. Whatever he decides, I'd be willing to bet this will undo is undoing the remaining holdouts over the abortion language. As I write this, Rep. Oberstar confirms he is a solid "Yes" vote after reviewing the Nelson language. One down, eleven (or four or whatever the real number is) to go.
Update: I just found the full text of their strongly-worded, unified letter of support.
A small snippet:
Congress must act. We are asking every member of our community to contact their congressional representatives this week. In this Lenten time, we have launched nationwide prayer vigils for health care reform. We are praying for those who currently lack health care. We are praying for the nearly 45,000 who will lose their lives this year if Congress fails to act. We are also praying for you and your fellow Members of Congress as you complete your work in the coming days. For us, this health care reform is a faith mandate for life and dignity of all of our people.
I'd say they've come out firmly behind this effort, even at the risk of opening a large, wide rift in the leadership of the Catholic church.
... who give two figs what the Catholic Church wants, especially during a week when the Pope has been implicated directly in covering up sexual assault of children and videos have surfaced of Brazilian priests having sex with altar boys...?
At this point, if the church is against it, it's probably a good idea.
And if the church is against it while the nuns are for it, it's DEFINITELY a good idea.
..the republican'ts, like the priests, have some of the same traits...wink, wink
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
n/t
These nuns are the kind of religious people I can respect. And now I admire them.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Your admiration extends to anyone willing to be led into socialism. This is the Cloward & Piven strategy... overwhelm the system until it collapses then take over with a Socialist "solution". Gee and it worked so well in Russia.
be ashamed of themselves. But they won't be ashamed at all since these are just nuns that are speaking the truth, and it's just women and the sick that the bishops are abusing and lording their power over.
I've never seen change without a fire
It's because nuns live real lives - they work with families and children and do their own cooking, cleaning and laundry. Bishops have housekeepers and are CEO's with all the attendant isolation.
to have the opportunity to be bishops, or cardinals or the pope. as such, they've really little to lose, career wise, by defying the powers that be. i'm willing to bet there's a lot of good parish priests who feel the same way (because they too are working in the trenches), but for a variety of reasons (the sex abuse scandals, career concerns, etc) aren't willing to speak out publicly on this issue.
if 1,000's of regular-joe priests joined the nuns in rebuking the bishops, it would cause a shake up at the top. what are they going to do, fire all of them?
... why nuns shouldn't be leaders in the Church. To be manipulated into trading children's lives for a system that will collapse quicker than Medicare is beyond unbelievable.
Since I already commented on this subject today on a previous thread, is it okay to say I have just watched an exclusive interview the President gave today to a guy from Fox news. The little shit's first name was Brett and it was the rudest interview I have ever seen any reporter do with any President. It was all about the healthcare bill and every time Brett asked a question and the President tried to answer he would interupt him. The guy should be fired for the disrespect he showed for the office and the man.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
only if it's ok to say,
"The guy should be fired for the disrespect he showed for the office and the people". (talking about Obama) ...after I see the "exclusive interview"
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
Roger Ailes won't fire the little shit. He'll give him a big atta boy and maybe even a raise in pay.
As to the nuns, I'd sooner listen to them than a bunch of pedophilia denying, pedophile hiding bishops.
fault he was treated that way. He was right in the first year of his presidency to give fox the cold shoulder. He was wrong to ever stop giving it to them. This is the sort of shit that pisses me off about the Dems in general. What, oh what, is it going to take to make them realize these people are not to be trusted EVER?
hahahahaha You're kidding right? Or was that you that always wrote complaining about the way Bush was characterized.
Remember when Quayle spelled potato wrong was and was a dunce (even though it has alternately been spelled that way in the past) but Biden eulogized the mother of the PM of Ireland... only she wasn't dead. Or asked a crippled colleague to "Stand up Chuck, and take a bow??? HAHAHAHAHA
Went to Catholic school for a decade plus and was taught mostly by nuns. But as I grew older the nuns seem to become fewer and fewer then older and older.
I thought they'd basically disappeared in the U.S.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
busy playing 'Hide the Catechism' with alter the boys, while trying to tell women what they can do with their bodies.
For a change, Bishops and Priests, go FUCK YOURSELVES!
In other words, jack-off. Maybe then you can keep your hands off little boys and girls.
Until then, STFU!!!!!!!!!
...they were speaking as the official and authoritative voice of the Catholic Church."
This would be the same Catholic Church that protects pedophile priests and runs a gay prostitution ring within the Vatican.
Why should be listen to anything they say?
And to have two strong, contradictory messages come out gives political cover to the Stupak bloc to break ranks, vote for it.
Why isn't any attempt to ban funding for a legal medical procedure based on religous grounds recognized as unconstitutional?
Caught a "medicare will pay for YOUR penis pump..."commercial last night,didn't believe it.My beautiful wife set me straight.Seems like we could cut that from medical costs.It's definately an accessory,not an essential.You want to pump,pay for it yourself!
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
;)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
STUPIC is MAD at the nuns.siding with the grim reaper bishops on health care....We need to unionise the Nuns! You know them socialist nuns. Blessings to All
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
What about the whole exemption of taxes on Religious organizations provided they don't involve themselves in politics/electioneering?
To paraphrase, I don't care what they say; I object to their right to say it.
As an oblate in an order (lay person associated with a particular order) I have found that the church - the one about Jesus - resides among the Sisters of many orders who remain. There are many very elderly sisters to be sure, but there are also a large number of brilliant, educated, compassionate Sisters who are middle aged ( up to about 80 in nun language). These same 59,000 women recently told the Vatican - in the nicest possible way - that they would not cooperate with a proposed Vatican inquisition. The problems - as the Vatican saw it - these sisters do not wear the clothing of their medieval and Renaissance founders. They rarely live in convents but live among the people they are serving. And the spirituality among those amazing women is contemporary and life giving. Now what will happen? It seems that the Catholic faithful like their nuns and don't like their bishops much. It is amazing to see these women in action.
Thinker
Interesting observation. thanks.
Thanks for the info.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
anyone would affiliate them self with a group when they disagree with that groups leadership and official positions. it's like proudly saying you're a member of the kkk but then saying but i have no problem with blacks or jews.
It's because people who are really following Christianity (and not the bastardized version) believe that GOD is the true leader of the church, not the pope or the bishops. I say this as someone who finds going to Mass almost intolerable except at very specific churches where the priests are very intellectual, very liberal and very progressive. These churches are out there. Shocked?
Good for them .
In the larger scheme of things neither the bishops nor the nuns opinions based on their religion should have anything to do with how or what laws are passed or how the laws are written.
Since when do we want the church running the effin government? I thought that was already tried and failed.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Some might say..."We tried and almost got it.We'll try harder when we get another chance" Not me,I'm a fallen away,excaped catholic.I'm doing much better now,thanks for asking.
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
Seriously - good for you.
I was lucky enough to grow up never having been exposed to Catholicism except through movies and books.
*high fives*
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Handypants: Lucky you! I was not Catholic, but grew up in Quebec in the 40's and 50's when the church ruled the Province, in cahoots with a corrupt conservative government, with an iron fist. The abuse in orphanages was a major scandal, some schools were little better. All of us had to abide by religiously motivated legislation. It was enough to give me a life-time hatred of the Catholic Church (not individual Catholics - poor souls). When I see the way the Bishops are trying to insert themselves into the US health care reform, it just makes my blood boil. It's too bad no one has the cajones to yank their tax-exempt status. Anyhow, much as I hate to say anything good about such a vile organization - way to go nuns!
...i had stayed unborn for most of my life, i would have way more rights to life. these born people don't deserve to live if there are unborn people facing any sort of peril. i mean who wants to live in a world full of born people. i think we should put a moratorium on birth. it seems to be the root cause of all of societies ills anyway.
Who gives a damn what the pedophiles in that cult have to say about anything? They should be arrested, indicted, and put away, not have a voice in governmental policy.
is why the bishops are so intent on people having babies?
You're right! I never thought of that!!! THESE BASTARDS ARE RUNNING A FARM!
The pedophiles released their opinion. Isn't that sweet.
For some silly reason, I'd bank more on Catholic nurses knowing about the health care system than I would Catholic bishops.
And there's a reason I left the Church years ago....the Bishops are
among them.
...mostly because the bible doesn't make any sense from a logical point of view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86VaRTuCaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MctafuXLho&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Are you still in Tejas, or have you gone on a trip?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Nope
Unless you count delivering funeral wreaths to bordering Mexican towns.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
???????
What is your conceptual, continuity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ogPJat_jWo
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"I've often thought the Bible should have a disclaimer in the front saying this is fiction."
Ian McKellen, Interview on the Today Show, May 2006
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... the Catholic Church dries up and blows away. These fucked up pedophile co-conspirators are the reason atheism is on the rise.
And while I'm at it... if their god is what they say he is -"all knowing"- he must be part and parcel of this mess. He can create the universe but can't stop priest in "his" "following" from molesting children... opps... I forget about the free well loop hole BS! GMAFB!
I'll return to the Catholic Church when they get their f*cking nose out of OUR political process!!
I'm so disgusted with my church. They have lost me until they clean up their disgusting act. Maybe they should focus on molestation and child abuse for awhile??
These sick bastards can ALL go to hell, as far as I'm concerned.
Why anyone pretends the Catholic church is a credible institution whose medieval views are relevant in the 21st century is a mystery. I will say the same thing about Republicans. It's time we all stopped pretending we don't know they're pretty much all in the closet and that they're greedy assholes.
http://www.nuncostume.net/pictures/sexy_nun2.jpg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Fact -- not just one man's opinion.
Sister Jane Kelly. Sister Jane is an amazing nun who blew the whistle on a pedophile priest in her diocese, and raised holy hell when the Vatican tried to shut her up. She also started a ministry to feed the hungry, and believes that the decision whether or not to use birth control should be between a woman and her God (her conscience) and no one elses!
I've never seen change without a fire
in Catholic grade school, it's don't mess with the nuns.
I'm happy there are some decent nuns. However, I just can't get all gushy about it. I had too many of those penguins beat me over the head with a ruler coming up in catholic school. But hey, even snake venom can be made useful.
good associated with the Catholic Church at a time when I'm becoming increasingly disgusted with it because the negative aspects of the RCC are starting to pile up to Heaven itself. I'm nearly at the point where I want the Church to fail, what has been happening with Cardinal Sean Brady is just one of a laundry list of things I cannot forgive the Church for.
I've never seen change without a fire
You're an optimist. We need some of those too.
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