Orly Taitz' BFF Justice Alito Considers Her Request for Birther Appeal
(image h/t Bluegal)
When Clarence Thomas denies an appeal, it should be a signal that bizarro world isn't quite bizarro enough to legitimize birtherbot Orly Taitz. But no, Justice Alito decided Orly should be given the courtesy of more than a curt dismissal. Not only did he decide that, he did it despite the fact that she didn't even make the right request!
A request to U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito by "birther" attorney Orly Taitz asking that $20,000 in sanctions against her be reversed was referred on Tuesday to the entire court.
U.S. District Court Judge Clay Land imposed the sanctions last year after he warned her and then gave her a time limit to explain why he shouldn't fine her in the September 2009 case of Capt. Connie Rhodes, who questioned the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency.
Taitz appealed the sanctions to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta. That court upheld the sanctions in March, and Taitz sent an application for stay to U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas on July 8. Thomas denied it a week later.
Taitz then refiled it with Alito on Aug. 4. That request was referred on Tuesday to the entire nine-member court, the Supreme Court's website states.
Got that? Taitz chose the two most conservative teabagging justices on the U.S. Supreme Court. One declined; one accepted, at least to the extent of passing it around to the rest of them.
It's not like we didn't already know Alito was a reactionary hater, but this goes far beyond the pale. Orly Taitz is a half-wit publicity-seeking nutcase who has just been granted a piece of the Supreme Court's attention. I think we can safely assume Alito shares Taitz' agenda to delegitimize the President of the United States.
Oh, and poor Orly is having a problem because she's facing a lien on her property:
On Monday, a lien was filed on all of Taitz’s real property. Taitz said she wouldn’t give the government the satisfaction of taking her property or potentially her law license, adding she would pay the fine.
As of Wednesday, Taitz said on her website that she had raised $1,740 in donations.
Mason theorized that if the entire court dismisses the application for stay, it would be dismissed without consideration if she were to again refile it with another justice.
Mason is a little off on the analysis, in my opinion. Alito could have denied it summarily, too. Assuming he did so, did she expect Kennedy or Roberts to hear it?
It makes me want to go hunt down the standards for impeachment of United States Supreme Court justices. Alito may go down in history as the worst legacy of the Bush administration, even exceeding Iraq and Afghanistan.
Do I smell right wing judicial activism?
my bad ;-(
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
showing the long form birth certificate and not the certification of live birth.
What an idiot you must be. I'm guessing you also believe in invisible gods and ghost gods and...... Good Freaking Grief how stupid can you be? STOP DRINKING the KOOL_AID and try or at least attempt to get a life your stupidity is making you out to be an idiot.
PEACE
The love you take is equal to the love you make. John Lennon Paul Mc Cartney
That birthers are like an intellectual taser. Just hearing one of them getting warmed up is like 10,000 volts right to the medulla oblongata.
Sort of like hearing Sarah Palin's voice.
I "believe" you must be intellectually challenged. Calling you an idiot insults idiots with more sense than you apparently posess. How is it that fools like you even have an opinion? I know you don't you just parrot bullshit you don't understand or comprehend. Sorry bout your bad luck.
PEACE
The love you take is equal to the love you make. John Lennon Paul Mc Cartney
at all.
a "birth certificate" is slang for a "certificate of live birth"
its as absurd as if a cop said "give me your drivers license please" and you handed it to him and he said "EXCUSE ME SIR THIS SAYS A LICENSE TO DRIVE ON IT NOW I WANT YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE!"
there is no difference.
I issued between 100,000 and 150,000 birth certificates aka "certificates of live birth" in my lifetime, I'm confident I know more about this stuff than you do.
Don't use logic. You'll hurt it's "brain".
Hey, Russo! Puleez check your punctuation before making snide remarks. I totally agree with your sentiments but using "It's" does NOT connote ownership (as in "it's brain"). That means "It is brain". "Its brain is correct."
Joan of Oak
Morons like orly taitz and the rest of the birthers won't believe anything they see. They'll claim the long form is a fake; they'll make other claims; they're sick in the head and hate Obama. They'll never stop, regardless of what you show them.
Your psychic abilities are impressive. You know where Obama was born without an objective 3rd party witness. You know how the "birthers" would react to a long form, if Obama had such a thing. And, you know their motivations.
"They'll never stop, regardless of what you show them."
Brilliant! You've given yourself a perfect excuse for every potential piece of evidence that you don't have which could prove your claim.
showing the long form birth certificate and not the certification of live birth.
wrong.
nothing will silence her now.
She's a crazy lady from a land far away. She's never had it so good.
She's riding the tiger.
[and costing us all a fortune in time and money]
Republicans don't care what they use for political gain.
They're in it for money and religion.
mostly money.
Did you see the tax plan they want to pull on us? It is simply
obnoxious. No way baby.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Anoybody associated with Orly Taitz ends up with a taint on them - maybe an Oily Taint.
Alito shows how political a SCJ can be.
He should be impeached.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Tates and Dobbs look the same.
Not that it should matter, and I don't want to play Republican games, but isn't
ScaliaAlito Italian, a minority that has been wrongly vilified in the past by people like Tates?What on earth is he thinking.
Is there a principle at work that he might want to share with us, to
explain his actions. If so i encourage him to do so.
Update:
OK. Looks like there is a reasonable answer.
It may be a way to end this abuse, that the crazy lady is inflicting our
legal system, and the expense to tax payers she is costing us.
They may be able to close the case for good this way.
Let's watch.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
If any judge ever in this country should be impeached it should be Scalia.
He announced that "President Bush's" equal protection rights were being abridged by a potential vote recount in Florida - BEFORE the court even had decided if it had jurisdiction to hear the case.
That is about a obvious a reason for impeachment as can possibly every exist.
Shouldn't comment after the second bottle of wine is open
I think it's time for a 2nd Amendment solution. Or, wait, it's not OK for me to say that. I'm not a Republican.
As far as I know you can't impeach a Supreme court justice for being incompetent or arrogant. They need to meet the same standards for impeachment of the President or a member of congress. In other words, not very likely ever.
Would this bitch just go away? She claims to be a lawyer, real estate, dentist etc. Anyone that anyone takes her seriously has zero credibility *cough Alito cough*
I'm surprised she's not claiming the lien on her house is ochestrated by Obama in an attempt to silence her. I'm sure that'll be coming in 5,4,3,2...
Could a person born in Kenya orchestrate something like that?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
If they have a witch doctor who has special powers . . .
Very scary.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
In the late 50s it was very common for pregnant women from Kansas, to make the trivially easy trip from Hawaii to Kenya to give birth in their advanced medical facilities.
Although technically there was no Kenya per se when Obama was born, the independence paperwork with the British still being sorted out and all...
Also, it is totally feasible for an undocumented foreign national to go to Ivy League schools, become a state senator, an US senator, and then run for president. An illegal friend of our gardener José just did that as a matter of fact.
See the problem in this case is that you are limited by such trivial things such as logic, common sense, and reality. Whereas the common wingnut is not slowed down by such "handicaps"
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
They are all deluded.
They believe what they want to believe.
They don't believe what they don't want to believe.
They don't stand a chance in a complex modern world.
They must all have been home schooled.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
working the birth announcement into the contemporary Honolulu dailies--piece of piss, mate!
me-oww!
...
Love it.
She was a US citizen, so her son was a US citizen at birth!
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Is just like that. Sure he's almost 450 pounds and bedridden. But he was the youngest black belt in America at age 5. Then he had to learn how to repair cars at the age of 11, and ran out of money because people cheated him out of money. But then he was a poker champion in Vegas, but he spent all of his money on learning to drive stock cars, and only missed being a professional by half a car length, then crashed. Now he's unemployed after being fired from a janitorial job or something for taking too many sick days.
It must be something in the water...
Perhaps Oily Taints threatened to make Alito's wife cry if he didn't do as she asked.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
The fact that Justice Alito is on film/tape commenting negatively on President Obama's State of the Union speech (during said speech) should be proof that he is not impartial on this matter and should recuse himself to any and all matters related to it that comes before the Court.
Bush really did ruin just about as much of America as he could.
No wonder he was smirking all the time.
Don't worry, it wasn't personal. He just wanted all the ill gotten money he could get his hands on. The people didn't even factor in.
That is your every Republican.
Money for me. And, Screw you others all to hell.
The way we all were, in grade school.
Republicans didn't grow out of it.
Republicans didn't grow a higher awareness - no conscience.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I was going to say the same thing....he was caught on video saying "Not true."
He is not impartial at all.
is the Supreme Court. He inherited right wingers who are now free to pack up with his lying(they couldn't seem to remember if they were members of that Federalist Society thingy or not and that precedent was oh so very important to them, ha ha)even extra special extreme picks who are very comfy in hearing, deciding and overturning decisions that made this once progressive, moral, forward moving country what it used to be.
Absolutely. As ugly as Iraq, Afghanistan and the rest are, the Supreme Court is where he really left his ugly mark.
Maybe stare decisis doesn't mean what we thought it did when Alito and Roberts were being questioned. They were all about it at the time but have since ignored it.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
What is 'stare decisis' again?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
It means that we shouldn't overturn cases decided by conservatives - Warren Court decisions need not apply.
Really means---I decisis, you obeysis. End of discussionsis.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
It's essentially the doctrine of precedent. Stare decisis et non quieta movere: stand by decisions and do not disturb the undisturbed.
Is Obama legally allowed to be president? I honestly don't know about the personalities on either side of the debate. I make it a point not to follow any of these idiots, but it's certainly interesting that this thing won't go away, and that the facts are so hazy. I mean, how hard is it to prove once and for all the circumstances and location of your birth? Any one of us could do it. If he's legit, this issue should be dead a long time ago. I can't imagine any reason for this being so persistent, except that it's true.
This is really hilarious.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
Was born in Hawaii, there is absolutely no dispute of that fact except from some of the biggest morons in America.
He has shown his birth cert, only the giant Obama haters don't want to believe it is his.
and the state of Hawaii has on their official site statements that they have the original records, and that the President was born in Hawaii... case closed.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama....
Case closed.
Except now Alito has opened it up again.
He should resign or be impeached, he's a nutjob clown.
Barack Hussein Obama's birth certificate, is the property of the State of Hawaii, and is entrusted by law to the State Registrar.
not even the Governor of Hawaii has the legal authority to view the original record.
good luck making the argument that the feds have the right to view a state's private property, documenting a citizen's self identification, on a hunch! =)
Maybe he's simply bringing it all to a speedy end.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I make it a point not to follow any of these idiots, but it's certainly interesting that this thing won't go away
The issue has been resolved.
Just as the separation of Church and State is resolved.
Just as a whole bunch of Crazy Republican type ideas were 'resolved' in
the civil war.
You keep right on not following idiots.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
"I can't imagine any reason for this being so persistent, except that it's true."
Oh my goodness, that is classic. I'm sure no one would have a reason to try to delegitimize the President.
I'm still wondering why they haven't found Vincent Foster's murderer.
So, people are bringing all these lawsuits, and, if I understand this right, it persists because the Obama people refuse to release all the relevant documents. That doesn't strike anyone as curious? Also, just at a glance, it seems to me the accusers are taking the correct approach, seeking to resolve the whole thing in court, through the legal channels we're supposedly allowed under our system. The opposition's only answer is trying to end the discussion through name calling and other ad hominem methods. In point of fact, that's what all the comments here are about. Just denigrating and shouting down the people you've been trained to dislike.
I think you guys are reading this whole thing upside-down. Logic tells us there can't be any possibility except that these "birthers" are right, otherwise they would have been allowed to make fools of themselves in court, and this issue would be dead and buried a long time ago.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
they just don't want to believe it. So they deny he hasn't proved it, and people like you believe it, apparently.
Will you be going back to work soon?
me-oww!
hu, 08/12/2010 - 16:23 — miss_kitty
they just don't want to believe it. So they deny he hasn't proved it, and people like you believe it, apparently.
Will you be going back to work soon?
____________________________________________________
Is there still a lot of work for Fuller Brush Men?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
LOL, liar! ;-)
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Thanks for the same.
me-oww!
Obama people refuse to release all the relevant documents.
?
Do you make up your own bull shit or just let FOX Theatre make it up for
you?
Do you live under a rock?
What a silly ass you appear to be.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
circle jerkular logic. Well done Robert.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
right here:
"Logic tells us" followed by circular reasoning.
honestly, Robert, if you're going to bring logic into the conversation it behooves you to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how logic works.
'The Obama people refuse to release all the relevant documents' is factually incorrect.
Obama released his records years ago. What the birthers are demanding is a document that is not in his possession, and does not belong to him - the long form birth certificate. THAT is the property of the state of Hawaii, and can only be released in accordance with state law. Which means that it cannot be released to the birthers, or to anyone else.
Just for giggles, try to get a birth certificate for someone, from any state. What you'll find is that you cannot request someone else's birth certificate. You have no legal right to it, no matter what reason you may think you deserve it.
The birthers are demanding that the state of Hawaii be ordered by the federal government to break the law and give them a document they have no legal right to. This is not a request that can be given its day in court - they have no legal standing to make the request, and the federal government has no legal standing to order the request filled.
their demands are in direct conflict with both the 4th and 10th Amenments
Cause they're the person who made off with all the WMDs in Iraq and are still in hiding.
is because birthers refuse to discuss the merits or the details of their conspiracy theory with industry experts.
for example, you. because you see, I'm quite confident you'll see my dissertation which thoroughly debunks all of your birther friends' talking points and .. well .. I'm sure you won't want to discuss the merits of the arguments, now will you.
Classic concern trolling. Real half assed though, but hilarious none the less.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
It doesn't go away because some right wing nutcase is perfectly willing to say, in a concerned and sympathetic tone, that it would go away if there weren't a grain of truth to it.
Sort of like that whole Whitewater thing. Know when THAT went away? When Clinton left office at the end of his term.
It doesn't go away because people like you troll sites expressing bullshit concern over it.
Apparently, after Thomas denied her stay (which should have been a writ of certiorari in the first place), Taitz decided that it wasn't Thomas's signature on the decision! From the Ledger Enquirer (ATL):
This woman is apparently trying to rewrite laws and procedures out of her ass in order to avoid this fine. A US Attorney has contacted her about it, but she has said she is appealing. I think it's only a matter of time before she is arrested. Hopefully, that won't develop into some Ruby Ridge fiasco.
From the same article, apparently her request for stay does not deal with the issue of the fine. She is still arguing the "merits" of the case in regards to Obama's place of birth.
I have no idea what Alito is thinking with this crap.
is thinking like any good far right drooling wingnut. Anything he can do for his right wing pals, but to hell with the country. The fact he has even considered hearing anything this pathetic woman has presented to the court is beyond being activist.
Alito should be impeached.
Oh my....the woman's tinfoil hat is just triple-A.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgF8jVJf5nA
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Tates is becoming a menace to society.
Maybe
ScaliaAlito 's planning to make an example of her."Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
As i understand it, her brief to Thomas was rejected - by a CLERK - due to technical insufficiencies. IOW, big surprise, Orly didn't follow the rules for submission. Under SCOTUS rules, she may serially refile to each justice until one of them tells her to go to hell.
Alito has refered it to the whole court so they can all tell her to go to hell together.
Which still won't stop her. Sigh.
I can see the birthers from freeper are crowding up on this awesome site. again.
its time for me to post my super awesome fully debunk every birther argument post full of lots of words.
because, you see, birthers arguing with vital stats employees and registrars is not unlike pothead college dropout truthers arguing pancake theory with architectural engineers.
but the key difference is, at least the truthers stuck around and debated the key points. I can't help but notice, every time I post this word dump, that birthers slink away. they're cowards, you see. afraid to have their talking points challenged.
Q - Why did the president seal his birth certificate? I heard he spent millions of dollars of legal fees keeping it from the public?
A - You heard wrong. A birth certificate is not a public document. Every state has a uniform set of laws barring anybody and everybody from ordering one, unless they are the name on record or an immediate family member. "immediate family member" means mother, father, sister, brother, maternal/paternal grandparent, son, daughter. grandchildren do not have authority to order one. step parents do not not have authority to order one. uncles/aunts/cousins do not have authority to order one. foster parents and adoptive parents can only order one when accompanied by a court order. courts and attorneys are not typically provided one when they request it unless they demonstrate a need for one on behalf of the name on record. employers do not have authority to order one, including the military.
Q - But I'm not saying I want to order one, just look at it.
A - A birth certificate is not something you can query. They are not free. You do not pay for the document - you pay for the search. You submit your request, along with a $15-30 fee (depending on the state) and we search for the record. If we find it, and you are qualified to own the record, then you are provided the record. If we do not find it, we keep the search fee. If we find it, but we find that you are not qualified to own the record, then we keep the fee. We say to you, "I'm sorry, you are not qualified to own this document" but we do not explain why.
Q - Wait .. are you saying that a person's identity is confidential?
A - Thats exactly what I'm saying. If you walk up and stick out your hand and introduce yourself, the polite thing is for me to shake your hand and introduce myself. However. It is my legal right to say to you, "Get bent, I'm not giving you my name." - should I choose to do this then you have no *governmental* agency which you can turn to, to find out my name. The Vital Statistics Division (aka the "birth certificate office") can not tell you who I am. Nor can the Census bureau. Nor can the Social Security office. It is my privelige and my prerogrative as a citizen to decide who I share my identity with. The same is true for you.
Q - Seriously? Birth certificates are that secure?
A - Yes. A birth certificate is the foundation of one's identity. Once you obtain a birth certificate, you can obtain a drivers license, which enables you to obtain a credit card, checking account, car, job, etc. These documents are highly confidential and private documents of one's self identity.
Q - Ok, fair enough. But so President Obama can order one for himself, right?
A - Yes he can. He can contact the Hawaiian Vital Statistics Division and request a birth certificate. For a $20 fee (give or take a few bucks) he will pay for the search. If a record is found, and he is qualified to own the document, he is provided with a copy.
Q - OK! well so there you go .. why doesn't he just order one then and show it to the public and then they'll stop asking these pesky questions??
A - He has. Please see this URL:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_...
Q - no no no no no, what I mean is .. the hospital record, with his foot prints on it.
A - That is not a legal document. It is a memento. It is a nice parchment that the hospital sends home with your parents so they can hang it on the wall to commemorate the day you blessed their lives. It is also easily forgeable and is not an acceptable document for obtaining a job, a drivers license or a passport.
Q - are you sure about that??
A - Yes I'm very sure about that. You can try and test it if you want but you'll walk away frustrated after standing in line for a long time at the passport office. Only the Vital Statistics Division, with a raised state seal, certificate ID number, and State Registrar's signature is a legal document proving one's birth.
Q - Well but .. its just a printout!
A - That's right. When you are born, the doctor (or more likely, his nursing staff) fills out a long form record of your birth. They immediately send it to the County Registrar, who validates the information. It is then sent to the State Registrar. The information is then entered into a secured and non-internet-connected computer. Some states may also make a scan of it, though not all do. The original record is then sealed into a vault. Your parents never have the original record. This ensures that, should the original record get lost or destroyed, your proof of identity remains intact.
Q - but burnt .. its not a birth certificate, it just says that its a "certificate of live birth" so why doesn't President Obama show his birth certificate??
A - **sigh** .. there is not difference between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth". The two terms are interchangeable. Not unlike the phrases "drivers license" and "license to drive". One is the slang, the other is the verbose/official verbiage printed on the document.
Q - wow really? huh. well, ok .. but .. I mean, its just a printout! Can't it be forged?
A - Yes .. but its very difficult. There are very few vendors in the world who manufacture the paper that birth certificates are printed on. The stock is made from a specific and unique weight, contains a watermark throughout, is a unique color, and has a "raised seal" of the state. It also has a copy of the State Registrar's signature. Forging these is even more complicated than forging money.
Q - ok well .. so .. there you go! people still forge money! so .. couldn't the picture on factcheck be a forgery then?
A - No. Because the Hawaiian State Registrar confirmed the legitimacy of the record.
Q - what does that mean?
A - The Hawaiian State Registrar is the bureaucrat responsible for maintaining all birth, death, marriage and divorce certificates in every state. He confirmed the legitimacy of the record.
Q - how? whats so special about him?
A - Well, one possibility is that he opened the vault and looked at the original long form record. More likely, he looked at the birth certificate ID number (which is 1961-010641), compared it to the computer lookup, and said "good enough for me".
Q - how can he look at the number and know its good enough??
A - Ok here's how it works. Here's how the ID number works. The "1961" means the year that the record ID number was assigned, was 1961. The "010641" means that it was the 10,641st birth certificate which was entered into the computer system that year, way back on or around August 4, 1961 (when President Obama was born). There was another baby born on or about August 4, 1961 - which was submitted into the computer system about 5 minutes before President Obama's birth certificate was entered. This person was assigned record ID number 1961-010640. Five minutes later, another record was entered for another person, and was assigned 1961-010642.
This is it? THis is the other side of the debate???? A very involved explanation for why a person just can't quite prove a thing that every other person in the civilized world can prove pretty much beyond doubt? Just the nature of the response tells me it's bullshit....There are also involved explanations for why we should be killing families in the Mid East and destroying the currency and economy. Involved explanations can get around any facts and logic.
Anyway, this is an idiotic topic all around. What a waste of time. Obama was created by, and serves, the same powers that brought you Bush. There's nothing legitimate about him, he deceives and murders, so I don't know why it's so outlandish that this, too, would be a fraud. But I have to agree with you all, it's a moronic conversation. I leave you to it.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
1 - you have no legal authority - none - to see the document.
2 - Hawaii issues no long form certificates. what you're demanding is legally impossible to receive.
3 - Obama's birth certificate has been vetted by the Hawaiian State Registrar, who is the world's leading intellectual authority on Hawaiian births.
cowards.
birthers are cowards.
once their talking points are challenged, they cower away.
Ms. Taitz doesn't really want her day in court.
you can be sure of this.
it would mean she'd have to debate the merits of her arguments. which would require courage. a characteristic decidedly lacking, in birthers.
so I'm not surprised you're "leaving us to it", Mr. Fuller.
debating your silly little theory would require conviction, and courage.
Win one internets, and my respect. It's hard to come by, like Obama's birth certificate. Kudos.
OK. OK.
You sir are just an unreasonable person here to seed doubt.
Won't work on educated balanced people on this forum.
The Republicans since and including Bush are a menace to society.
The Republicans are a money cult.
If you are Republican, we understand your frustration.
The only thing you said that's valid is that it is a waste of time.
you'd better spend your time explaining why failed Republican policy is our best hope. good luck.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Dear Mr. Concern Troll,
For only $98.75 you can put your money where your mouth is.
...the (Hawaii)Department of Health has offered to provide hundreds of sheets of index data if requesters will pay for it. At 25 cents per page, the 1961 birth index data would cost $98.75. So far, no one has paid for the papers.
love,
The sane part of America
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
that was incredibly well done, burnt.
I enjoyed reading it quite a bit.
I live in Portland. you come down often?
heading up to Seattle/Green Lake for my bday next weekend.
down to meet up and have a quick pint if you are.
=)
I used to make it down to PDX a few times a month, but haven't been so much for the last few years.
Going to be out of town next weekend, unfortunately.
However, have a great birthday!
Q - so ... what are you saying here .. ?
A - What I'm saying is that Barack Hussein Obama has had this Hawaiian Birth Certificate ID Number of 1961-010641 ever since a few days after he was born. The *ONLY* way that President Obama could have successfully forged the birth certificate he presented on factcheck.org *AND* fooled the State Registrar .. would have been to randomly select a record ID number from a few days after he was born, hack into the non-internet-connected state computer system containing these records, overwrite the name on file with his name, hunt the original person down, kill them (and their family and friends and friends' friends), then successfully forge a short form birth certificate which was created sometime in 2007.
Q - well .. but .. so .. ok .. well why don't they just show us the long form copy?
A - This prompts a question back to you. Why doesn't *WHO* show you a long form copy?
Q - I mean .. the Hawaii government?
A - Because ... since you are not an immediate family member, you are not entitled to see this highly confidential document of identification.
Q - ok smartass, so why doesn't the Obama campaign demand the long form copy, and clear all this up?
A - Because - Hawaii is one of about 15-20 states which has passed a law sealing *ALL* long form copies. Some states (such as California) issue long form copies by default. (although, technically, these are copies of copies). Some states (such as Oregon) will submit long form copies but only if you ask for them and only if the long form comes out looking legible (the mimeograph copy doesn't print out very well). Some states (such as Hawaii) have given up altogether on dealing with sloppy penmanship and crappy mimeograph copies and have just decided "screw it, everybody gets the short form and the long form stays sealed in a vault."
Q - So Barack Obama's original long form official hospital record of his birth, with the doctor's signature is sealed in a vault?
A - That's right. A vault maintained by the State Registrar for the State of Hawaii's Division of Vital Statistics.
Q - so ok, there you go! why doesn't the Obama campaign just demand that he release it?
A - Because neither the Obama campaign, nor the Obama adminstration (white house) has jurisdiction over this. In fact, not even the Governor of Hawaii has jurisdiction over this document. Only the State Registrar has the privilege of viewing the original record that sits sealed in a vault. And by Hawaiian law, he cannot share this with anybody. He cannot share President Obama's original long form birth certificate, just like he cannot share ANY person's original long form birth certificate.
Q - well .. so .. um .. ok .. but, I heard you can also get birth certificates made for you in Hawaii even if you weren't born in Hawaii. like, Obama's sister got one of them.
A - Yes, thats correct. This law was passed in 1982 though, not 1961. And the documents created must articulate that the person was not born in Hawaii. - http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs200...-0017_...
Q - well, so how do we know Obama didn't get one of those and just forge his birth certificate?
A - Because President Obama had a birth announcement in the local paper on August 13, 1961, just 9 days after he was born. The newspaper will not announce a birth unless they are provided with a birth certificate first.
Q - so .. huh .. so I guess all this crap about birth certificates is pretty stupid then?
A - Yes, thats correct. There are many reasons to question President Obama's effectiveness as POTUS and Commander In Chief, but questioning his natural born citizenship is pretty damn stupid.
to educate a collective which sees the written word as a vampire would see a holy water garlic martini with a twist of wooden stake in the middle of the day.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Thanks so much for the time and effort to elucidate this issue.
It really highlights the stupidity of the likes of Fuller.
Not too many words, even for Scalia to digest, if you really have the best interest of America in mind.
I suggest Scalia get off his but and use his head again. Pay attention.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
When the light of truth appears it's no coincidence that the cockroaches of deception run for cover.
Great job, Burnt!
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Meant Alito not Scalia, sorry to all concerned.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Does that name sound American to any of you? Perhaps we could get a look at his birth certificate? (snark) Here's something that isn't snark. Since these justices are appointed for life, does anyone know how old he is? I'm serious?
and after some quick google-fu... let me get this straight, the poster child for the birthers is this idiot Taiz who was born in Moldova, then became an Israeli citizen, and obtained her US citizenship waaaay later in life via marriage.
You just can't make this shit up. WHAT THE FUCK? Seriously?
I give up... this is just surreal. Has this country lost its collective mind?
I mean, it is not that this idiot lady was born outside of the US, she held 2 different nationalities even before becoming an American citizen.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
You must not be watching the right channels. :D She sullies California soil every time she walks on it.
Republicans really do want your money first.
All else is secondary.
The elite 1% richest are worried that we are becoming aware.
They know that they are in the struggle of their lives to maintain
dominance and control. Just one example is the lives of New Yorks first responders. Can't slow up Republicans profits to save American
lives, and an evacuation would have been detrimental to profits.
See how Republicans roll?
Now they are all getting sick, and Republicans refuse to help them.
A logical argument will not sway that.
Republicans won't change. We have to go it alone.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
With the Wingnuts control of the Supreme Court, Corperate Fox and fiends continuous promotion of lies, hate, violence and fear, and Corperations being able to donate endless money to Corperate Republicans our Democracy is dead. The question is can it be revived?
Impeaching Alito would be a start in the right direction.
Orly is padding her alredy full wingnut resume and is perfect for a job as Fox News analysist or running mate with Sarah Palin because she has proven she hates colored people, hates liberals, has zero common sense and hates the rule of law.
No doubt she hates teachers too.
This is very troubling.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50ZpoBcg1kw&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
1 - all birth certificates are confidential. they are owned by the states not the feds, and are not public record.
2 - Hawaii is one of about 15-20 states who have barred the practice of issuing "long form" birth certificates (copies from the original birth form, with doctor's signature). as of 2001, no citizen born in Hawaii, can buy the long form. nobody. not even the president. its a state law. (protip - ARIZONA HAS A SIMILAR LAW! :D )
3 - working in a vital stats call center is a deadend job. huge turnover. every vital stats employee has access to all birth records. its more than likely that every $12/hour vital stats employee in Hawaii has looked up Obama's birth record. you'd have thought one of them would have come forward by now, if not for the cause, at least for the money.
haha, you even made a tl;dr
very, very nice.
I made numerous phone calls and wrote numerous faxes and letters to key congresscritters urging them to filibuster his nomination. I tried to make them see that if Alito were confirmed, the political process would be f!$#$ed up for the rest of my life (I'm in my late 50's) and then some. The failure of Democrats to filibuster started a descent into utter cynicism that was capped off by the Citizens United decision.
Yep. If you couldn't see this coming, you're as dumb as John Cornyn.
KUDOS for the pic! This is the 2nd time I've seen it on C&L but it never loses it's humorous appeal.
LimpBalls
It makes me flash onto the scene where Flesh Gordon and Professor Flexi Jerkoff are trying to get the magical pasties out of that one girl's pudenda, after the evil Emperor Wang of the planet Porno, inserted them there;, and they're turning her upside down and doing all the shaking one would do with a reluctant ketchup bottle, but without smacking the bottom.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I love her 'special' photos. :D
I could be dead wrong (of course), but after 25 years as a litigator my take on it is that they want the Court to speak as on against this idiot. She takes up immense amounts of time, makes claims like "Thomas' signature isn't his own, etc" and SCOTUS is sick of her. Doing this means they speak as one voice and slam her.
I would be shocked if it were any different, and I defy you to find someone more liberal than I.
liberalism has nothing to do with this issue though.
its a matter of 4th and 10th amendment rights.
Ms. Taitz wants the federal government .. to order the State of Hawaii .. to bypass their own state laws .. and submit a very private document of self identification .. which, by law, they do not provide to ANY citizens, anymore ..
and to submit the document to the public and the media .. based on a hunch.
it literally spits in the face of the 4th and the 10th amendments.
and the SCOTUS is likely interested in putting the issue to bed once and for all.
I just don't put that much faith in some of the justices on that court. And all it needs is one. Just one.
.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
One is Orly drafted it herself and Alito wants to share the laugh or he sees ruling en banc as the best way to drive a steak through the heart of the birthers and spare themselves further annoyance. Alito and Thomas may be arch conservatives but I see no evidence of actual insanity.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Born of a jackass!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PuIBNLOeEU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Isn't that a synonym of IOKIYAR?
It'll be interesting if Alito merely routes it to the other Justices and they deny cert. That should end it.
Remember, the big boys are trying to quell the lunatic fringe now that the polls are looking favorable...
standards for impeachment of United States Supreme Court justices.
Well, those standards should have been brought out in 2000 when they intervened in Bush-Gore, a FLA state law and court issue. That would have been the time to bring those corrupt and partisan bastards up for impeachment. Of course, that would have taken some spine by the Dem Party, so, dream on.
And one of the five destroyers of democracy, Sanda Day O'Connor gets praised as a moderate by the dumb ass Dems as she travels around in her red dresses. They're too clueless to call her out for the radical and partisan hack she was, and likely still is. Just like Reid saying how helpful those two "moderate" witches, I mean Senators, from Maine are. Really, Dems set the standard for pathetic.
I don't have the actual original copy of my own birth records.
Does that mean I'm really only 23?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It means you don't even exist. You're probably a terrorist anchor baby plant.
Ran for Secretary of State of Calif(primary) against a man named Damon Dunn.
She sued him saying he was an impostor,not a republican. Because he was previously registered as a Dem in Florida (1999). That registration expired or lapsed. He then registered as a GOper in Calif . She lost the primary by over 900,000 votes. She also lost the lawsuit.On June 17, 2010, Taitz filed a lawsuit in the Orange County Superior Court contesting the election results, again alleging Dunn's ineligibility.
Aren't GOpers against frivolous lawsuits?
I have to wonder. Being that she's Jewish, and Obama has criticized Israel, if she has ulterior motives. That would explain alot.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Orly needs to stop wasting so much time on frivolous lawsuits and start spending more time with her daughter, Lady Gaga.
Hehe. Ya.
BTW - what planet is Oily supposed to be from anyway.
Not America. Everyone knows that much right away.
Except perhaps Oily herself.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
or at least get even with obama for his calling out the 5 supremes for giving elections to corporation... wasn't it alito who sat there shaking his head at the state of the union speech? yes, it was.
If a child was born at home in Hawaii in 1961, would the family be denied a birth certificate? Or, would they be able to register the birth and receive a certificate of live birth and subsequently have the local newspapers report the birth? Obviously, the family would receive a valid birth certificate and have the birth announcement in the local news paper . . . even if the family was lying. Why might the family lie? An 18 year old moves to across the world, has a child in Kenya and realizes she made mistake. Returns home as soon as the child is born and, fearing a custody fight, claims the child was born in the United States. If someone only knew the delivering doctor's name we could ask him where he delivered baby Obama. Can anybody help me out? What was that doctors name?
She was an American citizen, never waived her citizenship. Even if he was born in Kenya, he's got US citizenship from mom. Not naturalized citizenship, either. The real, 100%, as-required-to-become-POTUS citizenship from birth, the same as John McCain, born in Panama with at least one parent who was a citizen of the US. Or are you going to change the argument to one where Obama isn't his mother's son by birth?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Sure, she was an American citizen. You are the one changing the argument; and the definition of natural born citizen. And, I'm not certain if John McCain is a natural born citizen either. But you never answered my last question - who the heck was baby Obama's delivery doctor?
But the burden of proof is on you to prove that Obama isn't a natural-born citizen of this country. The State Department- Bush's State Department- certified that Obama met the citizenship qualifications to run for POTUS. You need to provide compelling evidence- not conjecture, but facts- that Obama isn't a natural-born citizen, and you can't do that.
And I'm not changing the definition of "natural-born citizen" at all. Children born to American natural-born citizens (and only one parent is required to be natural-born) , no matter at what age the parent left the country (there is a length-of-US-residency law pertaining to parents who are naturalized citizens) are considered natural-born citizens of the US. That's settled law.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
There's no burden on me at all. I haven't said he's not a natural-born citizen; although I doubt he is. I only claim that it has not been proven he is a natural-born citizen.
The "only one parent" vs both parents is Orly Taitz' issue, not mine.
My issue is his place of birth which is not certain.
They're the arbiter over this sort of thing.
And again, you needn't be born in the United States to be a natural-born citizen. I have a friend who was born in Canada to one US parent and one Canadian parent. He's got dual citizenship- natural-born citizenship at that, as his mom was and remains a US citizen. And my friend could legally run for and serve as POTUS.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I don't believe you are correct in your definition of natural-born citizen; but I'm not interested in the legal argument. If you concede it's not 100 percent certain he was born in Hawaii, I settle for that.
But I'm 100% certain that he was born in Hawaii. I couldn't care less for what you'll settle.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Ok,but the record will show, you never answered my original question.
"If a child was born at home in Hawaii in 1961, would the family be denied a birth certificate?"
There's no burden on me at all. I haven't said he's not a natural-born citizen; although I doubt he is.
?
how about an explanation for your apparent madness?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
They'd probably be given a copy of the original, but not the original itself. Just like the copy (mimeograph, iirc) of the original of my 1965 MI birth certificate...Which was in my wallet from about the age of 16 until 21(?), when I lost it while cleaning the detritus from my wallet.
And you know what? Like Hawaii, Michigan doesn't give out those mimeographs of the long-form birth certificate any longer, but the computer-printed certificate of live birth.
So what happened to Obama's mimeographed copy of his long-form birth certificate? Who knows? Maybe his mom misplaced it. Maybe the dog ate it. Maybe Obama made a paper airplane of it when he was 16, right after he got his first driver's license, and now it's part of some abandoned birds' nest.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
"So what happened to Obama's mimeographed copy of his long-form birth certificate? Who knows? Maybe his mom misplaced it. Maybe the dog ate it. Maybe Obama made a paper airplane of it when he was 16, right after he got his first driver's license, and now it's part of some abandoned birds' nest."
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
was filled out by a doctor in a hospital .. then scanned into a mimeograph in 1961 .. then sealed in a vault where it can never be destroyed. along with all birth records from 1961.
from 1961 to 2001, if the Obamas ever needed a copy of Barack Obama's birth certificate they might have received a scanned reproduction of the original, which was then stamped with a raised seal of the State of Hawaii, and signed by the State Registrar - or they might have received a computer printout containing all of the vital information from the original birth record.
from 2001 to present, the only certificates which anybody receives from Hawaii, is the short form.
nobody but the Registrar ever gets that original birth record, and its scanned, then sealed in a vault, then the information from the scan is entered into a computer system.
Do you think the Doctor would remember each and every baby he delivered?
do you have proof his mom moved to Kenya? Surely you could get the records of that. As soon as you do, maybe someone can help you.
And the close proximity of Kenya to Hawaii makes that sound so plausible. Surely passenger on the plane upon which she traveled must have a recollection of a woman with a screaming baby on the redeye from Nairobi to Honolulu in August 1961. And they would certainly be able to give an accurate description so you could positively be assured it was Obama's mom 49 years later.
You round those people up first.
Isn't there an Orly Taitz site you could post on? I'm sure Mrs Mensa would be fascinating. She might even adopt it as part of her fantasy.
me-oww!
I don't know if the doctor remembered every baby he delivered. Maybe he delivered 1,000s and now has alzheimer. Maybe he delivered 10 and then went into real estate Why don't we ask him? Oh wait, we don't know his name, do we.
I don't have proof she traveld to Kenya, and never claimed it as a fact, only as a possibility. Her passport records for 1961 were destroyed by the state department! http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=186677
You want me to find a passenger on a plane from 1961 who remembers an 18 year old traveling with a new born? I think it would be more practical to call the doctor. You know, they guy who signs the birth certificate!
An Orly Taitz site? You don't like being challenged or questioned, do you? Why don't you turn on MSNBC? I think Oberman's about to call Sarah Palin an idiot again.
You're spouting insane conspiracy theory, and you back it up with "proof" from a site that's renowned for it's conspiracy-theory-mongering, one of the sites responsible for mongering the same theory we're talking about.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I have a question. Why would you guys want to defeat the "birthers"? Is it because you hate them and all they stand for, or because you are passionately behind Obama?
I bet it's this: Beck and Maddow have defined the discussion for you. You associate the "birthers" with Beck, or jackasses like him, and Maddow has instructed you to smirk and call them names. So here you are getting heated up about this nonissue, and if you look at why you feel so strongly about it, what you'll discover, I suspect, is that you hate a certain kind of person. A caricature of Republicans or Tea Party people that has been fed to you by cable TV. You guys are Orwell's little dogs, doing your flips even when the trainer isn't present.
Maybe you people should worry about war with Iran, or who's destroying the dollar and the economy, or the police state.... These are real issues, and Obama's on the wrong side of every one. Why not support the "birthers" and help slow down some of these catastrophes?
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
You want him out of office, get him out of office on legitimate legal grounds. If you can't do that, vote him out in 2012.
And, no, the "caricature" of Teabaggers of which you speak is a self-portrait. I've seen it live, in person with my own two eyes, and here on an all too regular basis- emanating from the fingertips of those like you and Milquetoast.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
You just illustrated my point, genius. You couldn't help yourself, your programming just kicked in. You had to superimpose this image onto me that has been downloaded into your brain from your TV set, and you had to yelp "Teabaggers" like a person with tourette syndrome.
Yeah, now it's a nation of laws. What was it under Bush when the same things were happening?
You're absurd.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
And how fucking arrogant of you to think that only true believers like yourself are immune to media manipulation.
(And, btw, I was on the Teabagger meme from day one, before it hit the front page at C&L. I wasn't following, I was out front leading 'em on to use the meme. Because, ya know, it show's just how clueless you Teabaggers can be.)
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
That's a false equivalence Fuller.
Offered as a 'two wrongs equals a right' argument.
Double fail.
Now, since you brought it up,
Deny you're a Tea Bagger then. Denounce the Tea Baggers platform then.
;/
We are all waiting....
And waiting....
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
its against the law for a non immediate family member to obtain someone else's birth certificate
its against the law for anybody other than a vital stats employee to browse the vital statistics database
aaaand, (drumroll) ...
its against the law to print and sell long form birth certificates in the state of Hawaii!
so.
if we're a nation of laws.
you might as well tell your birther buddies to give up this half baked notion based on illegal dreams and wishes, to put Barack Obama's long form birth certificate on display somewhere or to start handing them out to a bunch of regular citizens aka non immediate family members.
=)
Andy K, Yeah, I don't have a TV. Just watch the Youtubes of cable news until I detect a deception, which always happens pretty quickly. So, to some degree, I'm immune to media manipulation. Or not affected by it, at any rate.
Ape Man, I read your comments and laugh. No other response.
Burnt...Everyone gets it. You can nitpick this issue to oblivion. My point is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Obama is heading us toward a lot more war and misery. I consider the birth thing in that context.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
you're right burnt - he is a coward.
We'll still be awaiting for your denunciation.
Still waiting Fuller.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
You'd have a legitimate point if the birther nonsense had popped up in 2009, but it was going on before the November '08 election. So just quit digging that hole any deeper.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
like I say in my original discussion point, where I pick apart nearly every point of the foundational birther conspiracy theory .. where I conclude the by summarizing that only a fool would believe otherwise ..
there are many other reasons to question the performance of our current President and Commander in Chief. hell, I'm annoyed with being called "Professional Left" when, as the C&L regulars whom I've annoyed so much in the past will tell you, I'm quite obviously a centrist. so there's one of a thousand reasons to purse my own lips at Obama. the fact that he'll call Kanye West a jackass, or make rude assumptions about that rude cop in Ohio who hassled that rude professor .... but he won't publicly tell Robert Gibbs to stfu?
plus, as you mention, the war and misery that he hasn't abolished. whatever. fair enough.
*MY* point is, there *IS* no context .. nor is there any good reason to .. pic apart, the State of Hawaii's Vital Statistics Division .......
especially when you're so woefully ignorant as to how the processes and procedures surrounding these very important and confidential records of self identification ... should be managed and maintained.
its like I've said before. you birthers, you sound like a pothead college dropout truther, debating pancake theory with a structural engineer.
and its like. dude. don't be a dumbass. gravity goes down, not up. birth certificates are private, not public.
I've never been a "birther" that I'm aware of. I'm telling you guys, this is absolutely Orwellian. Control of thought through control of language. You people keep popping off with these buzzwords that are supposed to imply all this crap about me. If you look at it, it's a way to designate which topics and opinions are allowed. Bring up the wrong topic, or have the wrong opinion, look out, you might become a BIRTHER a TEABAGGER. Seriously. You guys are absurd.
My point remains. Obama is extremely dangerous. If something along the lines of the birth thing could have crippled Bush and the agenda that was put through under that retard, I would have crossed my fingers and hoped for its success too.
You guys need to look at the issues that endanger your well-being on a lot of levels, and stop worrying about getting off your grade school buzzwords and congratulating each other on how superior you are.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
Just denounce the Tea Bagger movement then.
Denounce the Birthers as people who would
pursue a lie to take down the president.
The thread is about Birthers.
It's easy.
Policy is fun but save it for another thread.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
we're mean, for calling you a birther and teabagger with no truth. and its unfair for us to denounce your character with no proof. its based on lies, and we should be better than that.
and also.
if we can take Obama out of office by labelling him rude and untrue unprovable things like foreign born then we should totally denounce his character based on lies.
COOL DOUBLE STANDARD BRO! =)
Keep up. You're doing yourself a disservice, not me. You've had the terms of your thoughts defined for you by your TV. I'm just pointing it out to you.
No, I think my clearly stated position is that if the birth thing is true, I hope it slows the agenda that Obama's masters are pushing. If it's not true, that's unfortunate in my opinion, but I never said evidence should be falsified or lies advanced. I said it should get a fair, complete hearing, and if the "birthers" are wrong, then the issue should die a natural death.
There's no double standard here. I'm just, again, pointing out that Obama should be taken as a whole, and the birth thing considered in the context of what this guy actually is. You people have been trained to focus on this issue not because it matters in any real sense, but because you see it as an opportunity to denigrate tea party types.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
you're going in circles Fuller.
What he is has nothing to do with the facts in the case, as burnt
has made amply clear.
You suggest we follow a lie anyway.
We say no thanks.
The Birthers started it, but we'll finish it. they are waisting our time and money.
We take no pleasure in dealing with wigged out racist Americans.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
You people have been trained to focus on this issue
Now that is Orwellian.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Who in the fuck is the person who assumes the office of POTUS who isn't, from one perspective or another, dangerous?
He who proposes illegitimate smears doth protest too much, methinks.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
Wrong thread pal.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Thanks again burnt!
Fuller, you just admitted that you'd pursue a lie, to take down the president.
how does it feel Fuller?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Why not support the "birthers" and help slow down some of these catastrophes?
Triple fail Fuller.
Because the Republicans are responsible for our catastrophes.
Because supporting them would be supporting every nut with a wigged out theory.
Because doing so would be wrong and dishonest.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
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