Climategate Looking More And More Like Watergate
Photograph: Nick Rowe/Getty Images
As anti-science folks like Sarah Palin continue to make big noise over "Climategate," new evidence has emerged suggesting an organized effort to dig up dirt ahead of the upcoming climate summit in Copenhagen. From The Raw Story:
A series of repeated break-in and computer hacking attempts at a Canadian climate research institute are a sign of a "well-orchestrated campaign of harassment" against climate researchers ahead of the Copenhagen summit, several news sources report.
Employees at the University of Victoria, in British Columbia, have revealed that the school's Centre for Climate Modelling has experienced at least two break-ins in recent months, as well as several attempts at hacking into the center's computer network.
The news comes a week after revelations that computer hackers stole thousands of emails from a climate research center at the University of East Anglia in the UK, some of which purportedly show attempts to cover up data that does not fit with claims about global warming. Read on...
There is much left to learn about how the "Climategate" e-mails were obtained, but these revelations suggest something more nefarious could be afoot. With cap and trade legislation on the horizon and billions of dollars at stake, it is not unreasonable to suggest that a person, organization or corporation would go to such measures to protect their interests.
I wonder if James "Kill Ugandan Gays" Inhofe has a little something to do with this. Nah, conservatives are computer illiterate. they couldn't hack weeds. Sure could pay someone off to do it for them though.
is intended to be a factual statement
I'm surprised you think that. Republicans are criminals. The first thing they learn is how to break the law. (After they find out how to download porn).
I will repeat again and again, cap and trade is a horrible idea, except if you are Goldman Sachs.
It will not reduce CO2 emissions, it will cause us to invest in the wrong areas and encourage us to continue using fossil fuels, when we should be turning away from them.
The Europeans have already tried it, from the standpoint of protecting the environment, it doesn't work.
But it will create another huge opportunity for market manipulation and speculation.
Goldman Sachs will find a way to make another killing, they will love it.
We need a carbon tax pronto. Through the use of alternative fuels and conservation the tax will be self limiting.
Protecting the environment is the entire point except:
The sociopath imperial capitalists will fight against doing anything until the last charred ember of the earth has gone out.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
on all points.
cap and trade is a boondoggle, and doesn't address the problem the way it needs to be addressed.
Not absolutely, it's a start.
If businessmen see a profit in amassing credits, by being cleaner, and then selling the credits to their profit, they might start looking for other ways of being greener.
Maybe they'll be new financing of cellulose based ethanol, alkaline battery powered cars, or Willie Nelson's Bio-Fuel, although I must admit there some other agricultural products I prefer to buy from Willie.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I sometimes think there's too much concern by both the left and right over the fact that someone, somewhere, might actually make a profit from doing something good for the planet and *all* of its inhabitants.
for a "start."
market-based problems tend to ignore that the common factor is the market-based hubris.
A little surprising to hear us progresives against cap and trade. You're all correct, but knowing this is a major stance by the left it's great to see us not manipulated just because it's our party's idea. I was afraid to say anything at the risk of getting attacked.
is intended to be a factual statement
be remotely interested in furthering leftist policies a looooong time ago.
completely. Cap and trade will be totally ineffective in reducing emissions. The only worse thing is trading in carbon offsets. It's hard enough to keep track of real inventory never mind trying to keep an honest accounting of what isn't produced. This could only lead to massive fraud. A carbon tax is the way to go but there will have to be some provision to help low income families so they don't get bitten in their collective asses.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
is the biggest scientific scandal since Sarah Palin found out that the big, bad old Gubmint was wasting money earmarked for research on neurological diseases on studies about FRUIT FLIES.
I'm pretty sure an industry-funded campaign was orchestrated to hack into many computers at climate research institutes, and they succeeded. And after breaking into hundreds of servers at these institutes, the handful of pathetic emails they finally released, which only look scandalous (even to rubes) when carefully parsed and taken out of context, was the best they could come up with.
If you want to find some REAL scandalous emails, try hacking your way into Senator Inhofe's computer, and post all the emails where he discusses the orchestration of this computer hacking campaign. (Unless of course he sent them through the RNC server, like Karl Rove. That server has a nasty habit of losing all of its data every few months.)
yes, lost as permanently as Micheal McConnell - the IT guy who owned the database that maintained the "lost" emails and the "found" Republican votes in Ohio, 2004 - who was killed in a small plane crash JUST as he was in the process of testifying about his role in these miscarriages of democracy.
Does anyone remember this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thyAeCIqLA0
goodbye everyone. it was grand posting on C&L for these few months.
climate change from underwater.
Look on the bright side. At least the southern tip of Florida won't be able to swing elections for the Republicans anymore.
I was doing my usual search for news and such. And I came across this article about the sandy oil fields in Canada. It eventually switched to this article about this peninsula in Siberia.
Apparently, since so many glaciers and snow/ice bound land mass's that have become exposed, that they will release more methane and another gas I can't remember, which is worse than C02. Will cause even more damage than burning fossil fuels. We're fucked. The planet has said enoughs enough.
It doesn't matter anymore. The planet has decided to fix it.
The human species is irrelevant now.
Oh, I couldn't find that article. It's been erased.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
It's kinda tricky.
This is a slide show about the sandy oil in Canada. But if you continue, it goes to this kinda article about the Yamal peninsula in Siberia.
Follow it.
Ya gotta go thru all the slides of Canada first, It's on the same link, you just gotta to be patient.+ ya gotta read the story.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
disturbing as they are. I detest what's been done to the environment in northern Alberta. It's always about the money, isn't it.
I agree with you, mudshark, we are screwed.
100,150 years max. then it's over.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Not necessarily over, but over as we know it.
I understand the Pentagon is already studying the situation, anticipating further illegal immigration from the worst hit to the least hit, triggering internecine wars with States, as well as between States over dwindling supplies, particularly agricultural and water, as the climate affects the moisture and the duration of growth seasons.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Here's their report.
S/b "...triggering internecine wars within States..."
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"You've got a President who says global warming is a hoax, and across the Potomac River you've got a Pentagon preparing for climate wars. It's pretty scary when Bush starts to ignore his own government on this issue," said Rob Gueterbock of Greenpeace.
has a good article addressing methane in this months issue. Permafrost melting, soil depressing, water pooling into ponds and the release of methane starting, then the soil and earth depress enough for these pools to join into a lake, which gives more area for the microbes to eat the material unlocked from the permafrost and really get the methane bubbling. Then the positive feedback cycle really kicks in.
Or maybe it's all a hoax.
We know rotting matter creates methane. No?
So I suspect there is some veracity to this story. No?
And please provide a link to your story.
I understand that this is from a questionable source. But please..prove them wrong.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
it's exponential, not gradual.
we're even more screwed.
When someone takes all the factors in from the last 100 years or so. yeah, we're really fucked.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
... if only more people had bothered to understand the behavior of exponential growth.
distract distract distract. which is the real conspiracy here?
The BBC International had a good programme on climate change yesterday. (I'll look for it.)
They showed wind farming in Texas, and how 2,500 wind turbines were powering 1,000,000 homes and the town is booming with emloyment!!
Then they cut to West Virginia and coal industry/lobbyists and illegal and underhanded goings-on. That's when I wanted to (figuratively) throw something at the TV. (But that is pointless, and I just don't get that angry.)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Whatever happened to bob murray? Was he ever charged with anything?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
we have to tune in to a foreign TV service like the BBC to get any meaningful news about our country?
Is it just me that find there is something wrong with this picture?
I frankly haven't paid much attention to US news sources for over a decade.
I lived for long periods of times overseas, so I was never able to adapt to the infantile approach to news in the US.
"would go to such measures to protect their interests"
There are some nefarious and evil people. They would do anything for money.
It is what we have always been up against.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... I began to notice right-wing jabberings about Copenhagen. Sort of stirring the pot, riling up the infantile boneheads who form "the base" for talk radio.
Then came the hacked emails, and more scare tactics -- all hyped by rush/hannity/malkin/FAUX etc.
This is all orchestrated from on high -- and I'd love to know who actually pulls the strings.
Oh yeah, oilmen - Bush.
Oh yeah, coal man - Cheney.
Surprise!
if the police/Scotland Yard/FBI is investigating this shit?
We ain't hearing a lot about these guys ain't we?
There is no right or wrong only greed. They don't give a shit what happened or who is at fault.
Just the overwhelming desire to get more money.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness that is killing America!
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=potholer5...
look at #6 to the right.....more to the point.
'We, the People'............rimshot................hahahahahaha!
.
But I would hope that you didn't.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
.
I was remarking about this about a week ago with a gloating troll.
I said it smelled like Industrial Espionage by those who would be most affected by the upcoming Climate Summit.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwStDK2_qpw&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwStDK2_qpw&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cxGfVVe_NM&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Thanks, ysb :)
I can't say that I really beleive that CO2 is the cause of global warming but I am sure it doesn't help.
Global warming however is a fact and I do beleive it will get worse but hope that it will not be to terrible now or in the near future. My daughter gave birth to our first grandchild this past summer and I would appreciate if mother nature would give us a few years together. Not that I will be around much longer (10 to 15 years if I'm lucky)anyway but I would like as much quality time with him as possible.
It's like I try to explain to deniers: If a cup gets filled to the rim by natural forces, and then we over fill it so the cup overflows, we can still blame that little bit for making the mess.
It's not necessarily humans are the so source of the problem of global climate change, we're just that little extra, and it will destroy our environment, but the world will go on with us or without us.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
that crackwhore mother nature had been polluting the place since way back.
sole source.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
but when we see climate changes where they are getting snow in Austin, Texas, we should be asking why andd investigating.
I know I've been freezing my tookas off for a week.
I'm loving it, but one year it's 80 degrees on Christmas day, and the next we're frigid.
Well...I'm never frigid
...Just not particularly lucky.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Alberta got hit with a blizzard yesterday (and today):
http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/world/Snowfall...
Good times!
Although it's a bit early for blizzards, it looks exciting. The vid stirred the Canadian inside me. Blizzards: good times, is right!!
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
The blizzard here is still going strong and it's forecast to be -25C by Sunday night.
Brrrrrrr!
It doesn't matter anymore. We missed the boat. It left without us.
The planet is going to do what it has to do. We were a mere temporary species here anyway.
To be honest, I'm surprised we lasted this long.
Lets face it. We, as a species, are stupid.
But, it's nice to know that there are some decent people out there like you ron .
What is your conceptual, continuity?
and hell froze over in Dallas?
How many sides does a coin have?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
6
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's not one of your run of the mill questions.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
... do you consider a face a side in your coin nomenclature?
This used to be a trick question, I think I remember that in topological terms most coins have 1 edge, 2 faces, and each face implies about 6 sides. So I assume a mathematician would claim a coin to have 12 sides... but I think most people refer to the "face" as the "side"
;-)
I was busy pickin ma nose but a dime or quarter has grooves in the edge which could account for many sides I ain't counting them.
I was picking my ass.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
362
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I have no clue what your topological definitions were so I guess at least I was expecting a minimum of 12 faces.
Were you multiplying the number of edges by the number of faces to get the mounting total of sides or some such?
I gotta admit. The responses to this is hilarious.
Ok, basiclly there are 6 sides.
front, back,top,bottom. That makes 4
right ,left. That makes six.
But you can't measure it by that.
Being that it's a circular object.
So, for every increment in it's circumference.
It has 360 sides.
Plus the front and back.
Really, Tyler. I thought you would have gotten this one.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
with mathematical nomenclature, as I said Sorry.
Technically your answer is 360 angle/arcs plus 2 faces. Using your arbitrary overloading of "side" I could make the same case for an infinite number of sides as the proper answer.
;-)
It was a simple question Tyler.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
sounds pretty libertine to me. LOL
Is the key word Tyler.
> I thought you would have seen that.
Being that I said a round coin.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
your arbitrary definition of a side being equal to one degree of an arc/angle.
Is this the part where I have to tell you about degrees not implying integer behavior or membership? Else, I assure you calculus would have been much much more fun.
Out of curiosity, did the person who tell you this trick question had a significant mathematical background?
right.
I've always thought you were one very smart person Tyler.
Super smart even.
But, I asked you a simple question Tyler.
It's ok. It was a loaded question .
It was a simple question.
Maybe you should have thought a little more before you answered.
That's all I'm sayin. Get it?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
LOL.
No. I didn't. But even I knew the answer to that question. .
You have a nice night Tyler
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Tell whoever told you that trick question (math trick questions resemble a game of 'telephone' when they hit the general population) that their answer is incorrect.
There are technically an infinite number of arcs in a circumference. So there could be an infinite number of your so-called sides.
I think it is mighty entitled of you to claim correctness in a subject you have little knowledge of.
So far then, what it is clear is that you just know a wrong answer to a loaded question. Congratulations, I guess... LOL.
whatever you say.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
... and take a couple of remedial math classes.
Cheers.
whatever you say.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
... when your math teacher tried to teach you that regardless of what your uncle Bob had told you, 2+2 is not 5.
LOL
Oh, well...
very petty.
This is all way below your intellect tyler. Why do you keep responding?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
using a arbitrary answer hilarious.
I frankly consider your 'niah niah I am not hearing youuuuuuu' to be the petty attitude in this case.
If you don't understand math, fine. But at least be open minded to learn...
Then what provoked you to answer the question?
Really tyler....
If you feel that way, why bother answering the question?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
No smart assed condescending remark tyler?
You really think too much of yourself.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Actually, I think the question, and the answer six is either in some IQ tests or perhaps Mensa.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
your wrong because there are 3602 sides, 3600 minutes of angle around the circumference and the front and back.
Or 402, there being 400 gradients in a circle.
Or 367899713 , 367899711 fluffys(my new unit) in a circle.
360 degrees is an arbitrary number originally used by the Babylonians because of their use of a base 60.
A degree is simply a unit of measurement.
When someone would come up with that.
Hey Tim. How they hangin?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
and to the left, how about with you?
I'm still breathin. Been one helluva year . I don't expect things to change much for the better in the near future, But I still have a job. Kinda. I'm about ready to blow a few gaskets.
Things are so tight right now. I bust my ass for wages. And It ain't enough.
But I'm glad you replied. How's life on your end?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I don't have a job, but I'm keeping busy watching my daughter and putting in some "sweat equity" in the house were buying. Luckily things aren't too tight yet. My wife's a teacher and when she gets laid off come summertime it might get there, but the one large corp in my area does a massive temp hire in the summer and I should be able to get on there to make up the difference. That or its a tourist town and I can find something.
And deciding what I'm going to do, I'm taking some classes to get into the health care field, but I'm thinking of getting the degree as a fall back, and starting up a brewery/restaurant.
OH Man! Your my hero! :)
just kiddin.
I hope you do well. And I hope you and you family are ok Tim.
Me? I'm gonna ride this thing out. And if it gets that bad, Me and my wife are outta here. Mex. Why not? It's warm. The beers cheap and my house down there is already paid for.
I saw this whole thing comin miles away.
The problem is. People depend on me to do exceptional work.
When you get a 5 mill home to paint. You better not fuck it up.
Other than that, I'm lookin forward to headin south.
Yeah, I do all those fancy finishes.
But, at least I still have a job. for the time being. This will be done by late spring. Then? WTFK's
What is your conceptual, continuity?
for your well wishes.
And I wish the best for you and yours.
The way people act while they're on a blog.
I'm just as guilty as the next guy. But I like to think that I've learned something. Insults get us no where. Peace to you and yours Tim
Merry Christmas Tim.
I hope the New Year brings you and yours good fortune.
I gotta go. Beer run:)
I'll check back later.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
My kid logic is somewhat irrefutable.
Top side, bottom side, edge side, inside and outside. :)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
In my estimation there are at least three.
I can count 5, off the top of my head.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
The top of your head has five sides?
How polygonous of you.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
correct. Considering some currency's have octagons as currency.
But that's not the answer I'm lookin for.
A round coin.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I went by two sides to the coin, up and down on both flip-sides, coins have sides with an up-down each.
Although technically I could've said 16 sides.
The twenty pence piece I think has an octagonal shape.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Some have a squiggly edge.
There are round coins.
There are square-edged coins.
As you said, some have 8 sides to their edges.
What's your answer?
Who is partially correct?
[edit: I used kid logic]
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pQii1L8fGk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
debunk the greenhouse effect and greenhouse gasses.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707...
And if were the cause (or even a major part) of global warming we must be kicking out a whole heck of a lot to cause it on other planets.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/...
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/triton.html
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/pluto.html
Here is what a lot of people believe is the actual cause.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_out...
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Sunspot_activity_...
But yes there is a link between co2 in the atmosphere and global temperatures, but co2 is an effect of temperature and not the cause, the oceans hold vast quantities of co2 dissolved in them, they can hold less the warmer they are, so the temperature rises and they release co2 so the atmospheric amounts go up.
http://nov55.com/gbwg.html
Okay, so what's warming the ocean more than usual to make this CO2 the problem?
Technically rain causes rain, so cyclical C02 releasing to the atmosphere, to increase the heat to cause oceans to produce more C02 creates another kind of cycle, that's then compounded by our C02 emissions.
And, it's that latter that's overflowing the cup.
The other planets problems may be magma flow, and since no one lives there, there's no one to worry about them.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_out...
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Sunspot_activity_...
There are fissures on the ocean floor releasing hot water and steam, that's the driving force of plate tectonics
There is additionally reported concerns that volcanic magma chambers are getting dangerously full
All of these could be releasing C02,
However, destructive as volcanoes in particular are to humans, overall the world has been in remarkable balance until about 200 years ago, as determined by ice core samples and tree core samples, coinciding with the Industrial Revolution.
And as ice sheets melt and thin, and ages of glaciers crumble, they add both to the sea level and sea width, thus potentially producing more C02, as well as the violence of storms like hurricanes, and the ice packs themselves help reflect sunlight back out, but now cannot.
Even cavemen knew better than to light a campfire inside a cave.
In California they have regular wildfires, everyone knows that, and that it is natural causes, but that also means anyone with any sense doesn't flip a lit cigarette out their car window during the dry season.
Just because some events are naturally caused doesn't mean all such events are caused by the same means, that's just basic logic.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I've been in a bad mood all day, so I'm off to relax with a good movie, Night of the Living Dead.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/02-5
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/04-8
It's later than you think. Our understanding is incomplete, however we are not playing with trifles here.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Sat, 12/05/2009 - 19:47 — Timjoebillybob
Neither pages found.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I think one of the biggest problems people tend overlook is the planet may not die suddenly, but the places where the biggest concentrations of populations are will be very heavily affected, as will agriculture and water supplies. That means mass human migrations (across borders), battles (wars) for water and arable land, and huge tracts of once-good land rendered useless and unlivable. That's only stage one: it gets worse. Stage one is underway in many parts of the world NOW.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
http://www.peterrussell.dreamhosters.com/Odds...
Here's another interesting clock.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
The plagues will be flowering wonderfully in the coming years.
... is another man's Pentagon Papers.
I prefer Zig-Zag.
But the difference is who was exposed, Watergate was reporters exposing malfeasance in high places, whereas the Pentagon Papers were those from high places trying to silence dissent.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
were actually a top secret history of US involvement in Vietnam, which revealed, among other things, that the US had waged war in Cambodia without the knowledge or consent of Congress or the American people. They were leaked by Daniel Ellsberg, an employee of the Rand Corporation.
Right, but I was referring to Nixon having Lewis Fielding, Daniel Elsberg's, psychiatrist office broken into.
Then I think they revealed to the press that he was seeking psychological help, trying to tamp down his damage.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I think the break-in got blamed on a homeless guy in the alley, too.
And here he is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztBrnrn4Auk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkQQGsOegv0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The Earth pays the price. Damn these deniers anyway, they are scumbags.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
their way out of this mess. When it comes to decide between the invisible hand of the market and the real bitchslap of nature... my money is always on the pissed off mother.
Maybe that's why they're so hostile
It's hard to whack-off when your hand's invisible.
Is their pecker invisible too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DGfG862Nvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LowkSzt9xY&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
for that most welcome musical interlude, ysb!
`Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do.''
Wendell Berry
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
The concept of degrees in a circle is infinite thus using the concept of the circle in formulating an answer to the query infinite sides result.
Or you count each directional facet to determine the number of sides.
Or you could use cultural norms and say a coin has two sides.
I see no other answers to the question that are logical.
Party game, boring.
I do try but some days it doesn't work.
As to the climate. We're screwed and no one is doing what is needed to survive except the whackos that created this mess. They have a history of doing that.
group promoting climate skepticism, has ties to ..exxon mobile:
http://rawstory.com/2009/12/climate-skeptic-g...
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