More Secrets Revealed: Bush Sought To Illegally Wiretap Americans Just Two Weeks After 9/11
By Logan Murphy Tuesday Mar 03, 2009 7:00am
(photo found here)
As more secret memos from the Bush Administration are revealed we find that it took only two weeks for the former president and his lawyers to plot the subversion of the Constitution and the rule of law:
The Justice Department released nine legal opinions showing that, following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administration determined that certain constitutional rights would not apply during the coming fight. Within two weeks, government lawyers were already discussing ways to wiretap U.S. conversations without warrants.
The legal memos written by the Bush administration's Office of Legal Counsel show a government grappling with how to wage war on terrorism in a fast-changing world. The conclusion, reiterated in page after page of documents, was that the president had broad authority to set aside constitutional rights.
The memos reflected a belief within the Bush administration that the president had broad powers that could not be checked by Congress or the courts. That stance, in one form or another, became the foundation for many policies: holding detainees at Guantanamo Bay, eavesdropping on U.S. citizens without warrants, using tough new CIA interrogation tactics and locking U.S. citizens in military brigs without charges. Read on...
We've known about the secret memos for years, but it still sent a shiver down my spine to actually read them. I applaud President Obama for making these memos public so that the citizens of the U.S. and the world can begin to understand what happened during those dark years in our history and to insure that never again will any president of any political party abuse their powers this way again.
To read all of the secret memos in their entirety click here.
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but i'm fairly certain we were all being illegally spied on well before 9/11.
i'm also fairly certain the entire "patriot act" was written well in advance of 9/11.
so, thanks, again for this post.
when can we start talking about the real smoking guns -a certain building numbered 7, the ridiculous story about the surviving passport, the "hijackers" allegedly still alive in other countries, norman mineta's testimony about the orders still standing, larry silverstein's verbal slip, etc., etc.?
not trying to derail this thread, i'm genuinely wondering when we can start tie it all together?
Not yet bullfrog. Most people still aren't ready.
But thanks for bringing up that it started before 911. Didn't the Clinton administration begin domestic wiretapping?
And as much as I am against it, how do we turn it off? I don't think it is as easy as flicking a switch. The technology is there to store all kinds of data infinitely and search through it. It seems an individual could start their own eaves dropping program and sell the data.
Just as with Pearl Harbor and the Gulf Tonkin.
the truth saw the light of day with the Lusitania just revealed this year.
researchers found lots of ammunition and ordinance.
http://www.archaeology.org/0901/trenches/lusi...
I know its different, but it reminds me of the Korean passenger jetliner shot down over USSR because they said it was spying.
Thanks for the post TBT. I remember this story from way back. Surprised the Brits let them dredge it up.
we would have turned the UK over to the Hun.
I'm writing a letter of apology to the German chancellor as we speak. Let's chip in and send them some money for the torpedoes they lost.
the royal hottentots for their lost prestige, much less the value of the dynasty. Perhaps that should be extracted from the bloody Windsors.
Do you know which US Congressman was on that flight?
what was he an outspoken critic of?
Oh shoot I forgot about that. What was his name? No I don't I was a little young at the time.
if some of them were less prone to excuse the aggressor and blame the victims.
for instance? give me an example please of whom you are referring to.
I don't know, jeez... like some of you almost losing your load trying to somehow find a justification for the Germans sinking a f*cking ship full of civilians out of the coast of Ireland (I guess Tipperary and Hamburg may look similar from a distance) , or the Russians doing the basically the same... except that it was a jetliner during peacetime.
And don't get me started with Pearl Harbor, at some point it will turn out that FDR was the real villain and the dynamic duo Hirohito/Tojo just two unwilling victims.
justification?
the Lusitania was a legitimate war target. the germans warned the passengers before they disembarked.
then the governments of the allies lied to cover up the truth of armaments being shipped on it.
The US and the UK lied.
I guess the real victims here are the Germans, who were forced... I tell you forced... to sink a cruise ship full of people in international waters no where near German territory.
And btw, if they had "disembarked" it would have meant the passengers had arrived safely to their destination.
As I said, it gets harder and harder to take some of you seriously. Thanks for reaffirming my suspicion...
well thank you for the correction on embarked/disembarked.
I never said the germans were the victims. All I said was that according to the principles of war, the ship was legitimate target.
its also not unfair to say that that there wasn't some prior notice that the ship would be in u-boat patrolled waters, and that if carry war materials could be sunk without notice.
it has nothing to do with if its in international waters, or near German territory.
it also doesn't absolve the US and England from LYING about the incident and utilizing the rage fed by the Hearst publishing empire to push the US into a war it was previously neutral on, and did not had popular support.
and somehow you yet stretch that into denigrating the victims who sailed on her.
Newsflash: By trying to perform whichever mental contortions in order to excuse Germany's sinking of the Lusitania... you are indeed denigrating the victims. Especially when you have to go out of the way in the asshole department and use a couple of rusty bullets found among a passenger ship carrying thousands of innocent civilians as the vindication of Germany's actions.
Maybe we have a different scale of values. But a government lying about a couple of bullets on board a ship, sort of pales in comparison with the act of torpedoing and sinking a boat carrying a shitload of civilians.
So I guess, Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq is perfectly legal then, eh?
All those dead civilians will take comfort in knowing that Bush "warned" Saddam. So I guess, as long as an asshole country gets to "warn" before the bombs (or torpedoes in this case) start raining on civilians. It is then A-OK.
There is nothing in the principles of war that excused Germany attacking a civilian ship, from a then neutral nation, in international waters. Even if the ship was carrying H-bombs.
But by all means, keep at it.
look who's denigrating the victims - calling them shitloads.
Is that all you have to go by: a tangential argument about a figure of speech?
is ill used and looking in the wrong direction. Or did you miss the Gulf of Tonkin admission just last year and another 65000 US citizens lost their lives because of it.
You must be the one who goes to Washington and pisses on the Vietnam Monument there.
chances are that you are full of shit.
First off, I actually have family who died in VietNam, my pops is also a veteran (Airforce, but none the less). So let me get a hearty and sincere FUCK YOU out of the way.
Second, I was talking about all the nonsense about the Lusitania and Pearl Harbor.
The fact that the Gulf of Tokin was staged or whatever it is that went on 9/11 does not mean that other events had to follow the same narrative. By lumping everything together and acting like looneys is why a lot of people have a hard time taking truthers seriously.
Thanks for proving my point.
or the three million Vietnamese that lose their lives fighting in a war that was started by a hoaxed US incident in the Gulf of Tonkin.
The US lied, and 3 million died.
hey, that's like half of what the total killed in the Holocaust by the Germans right?
kind of reminisent of nation wide dust bowls eh ?
This is a cheese doodle Nation. Or whats the next big gadget I got to have culture.
..to convince me of a government cover-up is why 9/11 occurred.
W and friends were incompetent; the thought that they engineered 9/11 is ridiculous. I know, that's what I'm supposed to think. Well, if we can get these criminals into court, maybe then their incompetence will be served on a plate with Justice for all!
The bodies and plane wreckage went from Pennsylvania and why building 7 collapsed and the massive explosions in the basements of both towers (before the planes hit) or how a fire 900' overhead in both towers, cut and melted steel in the basements, or the explosions reported by firemen and police just before the towers came down, I'm with you. Just explain that for me. It's not much to ask.
It'll take courage, but you really "need" to see this before you answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwayjX4ipFc
Bullfrog:
This recent Documentary in my oppinion the best on the topic.
http://www.buenaondafilms.com/events/TNAC.html
You can download and watch it.
PNAC dit it?
......but i'm fairly certain we were all being illegally spied on well before 9/11. i'm also fairly certain the entire "patriot act" was written well in advance of 9/11......
Oh Hell yes! Karl Rove was spying on non-native Texas Americans in Austin while Bush was governor. That would have been 1995 through 2000.
Yes, Patriot crap was around after Clinton's Murrah building incident, but it didn't make it all the way through. They kept adding to it and when 911 happened, they passed it without debate. Some stuff had been around awhile, but there was a reason nobody passed it. Because Patriot act provisions are unconstitutional.
During the Bush nightmare, what used to be clandestine activities of the CIA/DIA and other alphabet agencies were trotted out to the public, who were made fearful by manipulation, and told them that these were legal, necessary and patriotic duties that must be employed.
Obama is no different. Look at his Iran/Afghanistan/Israel positions and his willingness to throw almost another trillion at the Pentagon this year.
And we are supposed to be surprised at this revelation how?
bush and his whole gang of thugs need to be behind bars and their money taken away from them.
So, it wasn't UBL and AQ that hated our freedoms after all. My suspicions have been confirmed!
and of course with the internet who needs wiretapping?
who's going to have the time and funding to "go after em".
.
Repeat over and over
The violations of the Constitution by Bush administration strike at the foundation of democracy. The fact that Congress abrogated it's responsibility and did not investigate and take action (censure, impeachment, etc.) puts our future at risk.
Already, history revisionists are re-writing the Bush legacy.
AND - Obama administration has waved the flag of "state secrets" in attempt to block disclosure and investigation. Leahy proposes "truth commission" in lieu of real investigation, prosecution and punishment. AND Obama voted for the nefarious telecom immunity.
None of this gives much reason for expecting "never again" will Presidents try to use executive powers to usurpt the Constitution.
The darkness remains.
I agree! Truth of past crimes has been brought into the open in the past and yet the crimes were repeated, often by the same parties. The only way to "insure it doesn't happen again" is to put the perps in prison. And not one of them country club prisons for white collar criminals either! But a real super-max prison for the worst most violent deadly convicts. Because that's what the criminals of the Bush administration are!
The democrats have a vested interest in suppressing investigations.
They cheered on Bush for eight years, championing his unconstitutional wars that bled us dry, turned the world against us, and destroyed our livelihood and hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. They cheered the war. They cheered war profiteers like Richerd Perle, and powermongers and abusers like Rumsfeld, Cheney, and even convicted felon Lewis Libby. They cheered the Middle East policy that convicted liar Elliott Abrams ran from the NSC
Yep, I won't feel better until they're brought to justice. All this revealing of the crimes they committed just makes it more obvious to any future administration that they could easily get away with it.
We thought we knew what they were doing and in the back of our minds we hoped we were wrong. It's frightening as hell to have this all confirmed and realize it was as bad or worse than we feared.
I used to say that when bush said the terrorists hated our freedoms he took care of that by removing our freedoms, thus no more attacks here.
Cheney was behind this, you just know he was. He was convinced since the Nixon days that a president should have more power. Once he got another shot in the white house, he was intent on making that happen.
From the esteemed Glen Greenwald @ Salon:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/0...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/0...
... when senior members of the Bush Administration began using the, 'I don't think anyone knew terrorists would use airplanes as missiles' line (I know Condi used it, but I seem to recall hearing the same from Bush and perhaps Rumsfeld), it should have been clear that there was a cover-up in progress.
It was a very specific denial.
And when this magic piece of legislation called USA PATRIOT Act came out, nobody thought to look at it (I did - and it's a bunch of cross-referenced substitutions that people glossed over). And it was so conveniently named!
Yet the country remained asleep for years to come. USA PATRIOT. Patriot Day (9/11). Loyalty Day (5/1). They weakened our constitutional protections simply by playing word games: instead of constitutional experts like Jonathan Turley being heard from, the media gave us 'well, we do need to spy on the bad guys' - it's the same reason we have the issue with torture. Nobody said, 'hey, this is wrong,' they said, 'well, we do need to interrogate the bad guys.'
Leading the parade were people like Pelosi, Reid, Harman, Feinstein, and other prominent Democrats.
In the end, it comes down to this: if someone steals your stuff, it's because a) you were careless and left it where someone could take it, or b) they beat the snot out of you and took it.
..said they wanted to fly planes into buildings a year before they did the shooting and before 9/11.
haven't been kidnapped and sent off to some torture factory. But we help them by not doing anything but yap so we get left alone.
that we do nothing but yap? Why does commenting here preclude other action?
to yip on occaision, as well as yap.
My blog did get a hit from a nsa.gov computer some years back - probably a bot.
The link in which it is found messes up my CPU, so here's an alternative big version.
http://www.dccomics.com/mad/media/downloads/p...
(Here's the original.
http://eu.movieposter.com/posters/archive/mai... )
Thats the key phrase for me. It forms the basis for their conclusions. While I'd accept that waging war successfully is desirable and important, since this is a legal brief, I'd like to know what the author is legally basing the idea that success in war is an overriding need, on.
at Obama!! Not for making those illegal, unconstitutional decsions, but for exposing the bush admin. for doing so.
they are crazier than i thought.
"First Amendment speech and press rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage war successfully," Yoo wrote, adding later: "The current campaign against terrorism may require even broader exercises of federal power domestically."
Look who wrote secret memos trashing the First Amendment and permitting the Army to attack people in the US?
Will the American Bar Association finally have the guts to disbar Yoo as a lawyer?
Will Berkley's Boalt Law School finally think the stink and slime is too much, even for them, and dismiss Yoo as a professor, this traitor of the Constitution?
Hang ‘em from the yardarm and scuttle there ship! Sing a shanty, me boys, “Yo-ho, yo-ho, ...
http://www.universetoday.com/2009/03/02/aster...
At around 8:40am ,Monday, March 02, 2009 ……
Newly discovered asteroid 2009 DD45 l-passed within about 44,804 miles of Earth.
"...so that the citizens of the U.S. and the world can begin to understand what happened during those dark years in our history and to insure that never again will any president of any political party abuse their powers this way again."
I certainly HOPE so. But if there is no CHANGE to the policy of not prosecuting those who broke the law, what;s to stop any future administration?
"The memos reflected a belief within the Bush administration that the president had broad powers that could not be checked by Congress or the courts. That stance, in one form or another, became the foundation for many policies: holding detainees at Guantanamo Bay, eavesdropping on U.S. citizens without warrants, using tough new CIA interrogation tactics and locking U.S. citizens in military brigs without charges."
Sadly, President Obama has done very little to roll back these powers so far and return the United States back to a country governed by the rule of law, and in fact voted, as one example, for the FISA Act which had been strengthened just before the election. Add to that the Patriot Acts 1 and 2, The John Warner Defence Authorization Act and others, which were supposedly rammed through a timid Congress, and you have a major infrastructure in place to continue these practises unabated, even if Bush is the bad guy initially.
It isn't enough to release this information. You have to roll back the policies and put safeguards in place to ensure this doesn't happen again. But honestly, it is a great deal of power to have these tools at your disposal, and now that Obama is in the driver's seat, maybe he wants to hold onto them. And he'll use the threat of another terrorist attack -- just as Bush did -- to justify his actions.
But power corrupts. And absolute power -- like the power to detain people without trial, eavesdrop on all conversations and using "tough" interrogation tactics -- corrupts absolutely. We aren't out of the woods in this country yet.
but, there seems to be no chance in hell that the current folks running the Congress are inclined to do just that - change the laws they put in place to ensure they have the power. I blame all of them just as much as Cheney/Bush, as they are the ones who "legalized" all of the illegal acts and wars.
We, the citizens, have very few weapons to use to force our "elected representatives" to vote on limiting their greatly enhanced powers and their ability to stay in office forever and reap the "rewards" of corporate bribes. Who among them is going to offer a bill for term limits? or, to recall the Patriot Act? or, to rein in the corporatists and bankers? The answer is NONE of them! Not as long as the gravy train keeps on rollin'.
The President and Congress have no incentive to change the status quo and our only recourse (at the moment) are rigged elections.
... USA PATRIOT was being shopped around, as well as when the wiretaps came to light. It's not only that I don't trust Bush, I don't trust anyone - whether it's a Republican or Democrat - with that authority after Bush is out of office. Hillary, Obama, Giuliani, McCain ... none of them.
But we didn't have a discussion about what FISA was and how it worked. No, we had experts holding forth on how we needed to spy on the bad guys, and why do you hate America? Democrats did their usual roll over and beg for a cookie act.
One of the things that is encouraging is that 911 and the possibility that there is more than meets the eye to events of that day is even being discussed here. Because if 911 was an "inside job" to redshape American society -- considering Bush was in power for less than a year -- then the planning would have started years before, like when Clinton was in power. (Many also have serious questions about the Oklahoma bombing which was likewise used to justify enhanced government powers on Clinton's watch. Note as well that the first attack on the World Trade Center complexes happenned during his terms.)
The reason why this question needs to be examined is there is no way something like 911 could have been carried off as an inside job without "bipartisan" support. The 911 Commission report was decried as a joke by many who lost loved ones -- amoungst others --and failed to answer or even address fundamental questions about what took place that day (for example why did WT7, which was hit by nothing, collapse controlled demolition style over six hours after the other towers fell, or what about Sibel Edmonds and information she had about information she was exposed to as a translator for the FBI.) 911 has been used repeatedly, and by Obama I might add, to justify almost everything that has been used to push America towards a police state. If our political elites cannot or will not give us straight answers to questions about what happenned on 911, that is a huge red flag.
We also underrate our ability to change things and hold our elected officials accountable. The Powers That Be know, however, that an enraged public could do serious damage to their agenda, so they seem to be accellerating things like for example allowing globalist banks to rape the treasury and pass those costs onto the American public. Could this be why they are transferring battle hardened troops back to the US to quell "internal dissent"?
States are also starting to pass laws decrying the federal government's abuse of its power. This is not just "conspiracy talk".
I agree with the above comment (shadowgm) that it is unwise to blindly trust anyone on the political stage today. It really feels like the globalists who run finance and corporate interests around the world are trying to run the table and collapse the economy so that they can consolidate their hold over resources and infrastructure of this country and others. If so, then all the draconian laws adopted throughout the Western World make sense because they know when people finally recognize what is going on they will indeed be outraged. If so, both parties are in on the gravy train and understand what is going on.
This token releasing of these Bush notes, then, is used to make Obama look like he is "changing" things while in reality the military/industrial complex rolls on unabated and undisturbed. Not healthy for any of us. Coupled with an economy that is genuinely collapsing, it seems that we are all participating in a chess game against the American people that we don't know we are a part of. The game is getting to the point where the opposing side is going to have to show their nafarious intentions toward us, and they need tools to crush any dissent.
If Obama were to roll back those tools and take a forceful stand against government acting this way, then my faith in him would be restored somewhat. What I see here is a way to keep the blame for all the dirt on Bush while adopting these same tools -- and possibly expanding them -- for the Obama presidency.
You will love this Movie:
"The American Century".
http://www.buenaondafilms.com/events/TNAC.html
PNAC did it?
Again, PNAC is a finger of a larger beast. And that beast has its tentacles wrapped around both sides of the political spectrum, directs and controls the mainstream media, owns significant interests in all corporations and likely directs all central banks in the world.
Look up how many presidents and members of their cabinets were members of the Council on Foreign Relations. Also who are members of the Trilateral Commission which advances consolidating the world into three ruling regions (Europe, The Americas, Asia) This has been unfolding for decades here in America.
These despots walked into the White House carrying a suitcase with that screwy deck of cards, a Vatican-sized embassy and plans to dominate the entire Middle-East for the oil. So much of how they've acted since 911 validates their involvement in it.
It sickens me that these monsters are getting away with it all.
amazing how those terrorists were able to know their plans and gave them a perfect excuse to come and wipe out their brethren.
what a coincidence.
Has he moved to repeal it yet?
Oh, he hasn't.
You still have the same so-called rights under Obama as you did under the uber criminal Bush.
Power consolidates. Obama relishes the power that BushCo set up for him.
Politicians are hawt.
how differnt it could have been if americans had really cared or been interested in honest government! i sat here and watched as a few thousand people marched on the whitehouse with nancy thegal who lost her son in iraq and only a few of the protesters were willing to set down and force the police to arrest them , when they should all have been forceing thier way thru the gates at the whithouse and makeing the bushes tremble with thier outrage, but it just became another demonstration for the news media to block out , when obama was sworn in the crowds were in the millions or so it seemed , where were all these people at when it would have made a difference? with a crowd like that they could have desended on the house of congress dragged the political whores outside and showed them we own this country , they could have went inside the whithouse and gave bush and cheny a boot out the door and into the gutter where they belonged, my how we missed the oppertunity to take back our country , now that would have made even me cry to see real patriots in action, guess you need lots of bands and floats going by to get peoples attention as it is all that energy at the inaguration was wasted in more of the same! still wiretaps still more free speach zones still more wars !
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Feds_unlikely_t...
Sounds a lot like the BushCo standard operating procedure.
Who's in charge again?
My dad was the oldest of twelve kids...seven boys and five girls. Every one of those boys served in the military - one branch or the other - during WWII....I can't even imagine what he would be thinking about all this if he were still living....most likely it would kill him to see all this garbage spewing from DC.....
This has for so long not been the country he (they and countless others) fought and died for...................
We ARE the country, that our parents warned us against!CEO,citizens,eyes,open
MSNBC - Afghanistan war plans were on Bush's desk on 9/9/2001
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4587368/
BBC - American government told other governments about Afghan invasion IN JULY 2001.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_...
When are more United States Citizens or Citizen Journalists or Information providers going to take some responsibility for our Country and connect these dots and start telling your fellow Americans? This is still America. You remember the history classes etc. We can do this.
You know they are setting it up for prosecutions. The plans are being laid perfectly.
not going to happen.
didn't you see the post above about the feds not prosecuting for the destruction of the torture tapes by the CIA?
"The memos reflected a belief within the Bush administration that the president had broad powers that could not be checked by Congress or the courts."
==============================================
Doesn't that sort of make you king by definition?
is that this is the tip of the iceberg. An investigation into the failure of the FAA to scramble the jets on 9/11 (similar to the overriding of presidential security policies in Dallas '63 when the motorcade slowed to less than 30 mph and made the two turns in front of the depository buidling among others) and of the 48 hour time frame a week or so BEFORE 9/11 when the buildings were cleared for some type of inspection (planting of explosives?) will lead directly to the collaborators. Also, the NY firefighters on the ground heard the demolition "pops" in the second tower as they were at ground zero. You don't want to fuck with those guys.
Sec_ humanist, you are correct, all of these things are tied in together. The "texas crony" network is a long list of traitors,crooks,murders and scam artist who have used any and all means to get and keep more money,power and control over this country. All the following "traitors" have ties to each other and many crimes and events have been planned and committed by them or their stooges. take a little time and check the connections. George W bush-baker botts(law firm)-james a baker-ray hunt-richard nixon-little gw bush-ken lay-john connally lyndon johnson-dick cheney-halliburton-enron-baker institute- carlyle group- saudi arabia- bill clements, this of course is only the surface, and only the magical being in the sky know what else these fuckers have done. These are the lead players, all should be or should have been hung by the neck until dead.CEO,citizens,eyes,open(wide) no caps on purpose not deserving.
Two weeks after 9/11? I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to do it two minutes after the inauguration.
Before Obama's visit to Canada, we scrambled jets to intercept Russian planes that came near, but had not entered Canadian airspace. With today's technology how did all those jetliners get lost from the radar and anywhere near Manhattan, or D.C., and no one knew?
I will never believe it was a surprise. That makes me question everything we've been told.
See how close the bushies 'Coo' came to being reality? and the way the MSM was all for it? And how they still protect bush and the bushies for incriminating stories to this day? And look at the way those responsible are behaving now that they've failed... at least for now.
Must.. get.. to.. the.. bottom. of. this. before. america.. is.. lost!
they were lost because cheny was in charge of norad and they put up false blips indicateing airlines who were actualy not flying that day!
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