Is Thirty A Magic Number?
Schoolhouse Rock - Three is a Magic Number
Okay, maybe not three, but would you believe that when it comes to Afghanistan, 30 is the magic number? As Moon of Alabama notes, each time a battle in Afghanistan is described, the losses are always around 30. Megan Carpentier of Air America suggests that it may be that the Pentagon's cold calculus is that 30 civilian deaths is the maximum we Americans will tolerate without questioning the wisdom of the battles:
In other words, the Pentagon determined that 30 casualties, even if they were civilian, were too few to matter politically or to attract the attention of the press for more than a few words. If commanders expected more civilian casualties than that, political leaders had to sign off on the attack in advance to make sure they were prepared for the PR fall-out.
That PR calculus of how many deaths matter to the average American has apparently carried over from the Bush Administration to the Obama Adminstration, at least insofar as ground commanders are concerned. But the American people deserve the truth about how many Afghans--civilian and otherwise--are being killed by our forces. Just because senior officials at the Pentagon think that killing 30 people doesn't warrant their attention doesn't mean they're right.
I didn't feel so when I turned 30.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiKcd7yPLdU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I was just thinking about that song!
btw, I didn't know it was a Harry Nilsson tune. I learn something new every day at C&L!
Pick up School House Rock ROCKS!
Blind Melon did an outstanding cover of Three is a Magic Number and Biz Markie did a hilarious version of The Energy Song.
All numbers and the "math" stuff are magic or even a little spooky to people who don't believe in science.
I'm certain we only kill in thirty body increments. To say otherwise exposes one as needing re-education from the ministry of newspeak.
Say a bomb kills only 25? no one can be certain so just say 30. If the bomb kills 35 the amount of paperwork necessary to report real numbers would be too costly.
It's just business after all, eh?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
19th child to replace those enemy losses and keep the wheel of empire greased.
that if it were not for government support of the meat industry and the free water for livestock, that a hamburger would cost 125 dollars.
Being people do not want to alter their lifestyles bamboozling the public isn't that difficult.
One a day keeps the terrorists away.
Mr Show did a skit about this. For them, 24 was the highest number.
The magic number 30
An odd take.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Autumn Rhythm (Number 30), 1950
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I wrote about it in August...See?
It depends. What's the over/under? Of course that would be illegal - for money. For human lives - it's prize worthy.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I thought this was only a De La Soul tune.
:P
me-oww!
Made my head bob.
I needed that
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
The line between the former president and the current one gets blurrier every day.
Obushma
Bill Kristol says something we can all agree with. Not his whole statement but the headline is correct.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/13/kristol-o...
I was thinking the same thing. He mentioned war so many times, he wasn't just buttering up the planet for our Afghan surge, he was preparing us for another "just war".
Iranians, prepare to receive freedom in 3, 2, 1, ....
For some perspective...
In February of 1993 the BAFT and FBI got David Koresh. 56 others were killed, but they sure did get David. It was a traumatic and horrific ending, and we won’t soon forget it.
I won’t bow in on the justification of this raid on the Branch Davidians, nor the purpose – just the numbers. 57 Americans were killed in a raid – and it was news for months.
Now when this happens in a town in Afghanistan, when 30+ innocent people are exterminated to get their equivalent of a radical extremist, who can honestly say the Afghans will forget it? Multiply this by 2-3 times every month and you get to the scale of our war on terrorism there.
We went to Afghanistan ostensibly to disrupt those who planned 9/11. Did we? Or are we creating more by our actions?
the number of surviving family members of the non combatant victims. I am sure they won't be forgeting it for a long time. I know I wouldn't. On a side note- was 30 the magic number during Katrina also? Or is the magic number within this country lower?
I've often wondered if the American economy COULD survive without massive military spending and wars.
My Dad often remarked, "It's never been shown that Corporate Capitalism can succeed without war."
Sadly I think Dad was right.
How can we forge an economy without a war machine?
It was WW2 that ended the Great Depression and created the Military Industrial Corporate Complex.
I've seen a list (wish I could find it now) of all the Corporations making bank off supplying the US wars and military bases, and it's a whos-who of American Corporations, right down to CocaCola and Pizza Hut. It's not all military equipment suppliers.
Military spending kept the economy afloat during the Bush years.
What would happen to the American economy IF Obama ended the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan?
Crash and burn?
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
First century Rome, 20th century Russia?
30 years ago Pres Carter said it was time to invest in ending our dependence on foreign oil.
But 'murkins elected Reagan instead -
"Deficits don't matter!"
"Party On Dudes & Dudettes!"
So for the last 30 years the US has been partying on borrowed money instead of investing in our collective future.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Ignoring the arguement as to if we should even be there,how many civilian deaths in the middle east does it take to balance for the death of one of our soldiers? The reason our military is taking out so many civilians is to try to keep the risk low for our own troops. To not "let God sort em out"- to carefully get the right people, puts our troops at greater risk.
Only on the short term - obviously - the long term suggests it's never a good idea.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
When I was in college I had a class on terrorism. In this class we discussed how the government (military) could kill 30 civilians without having to get "higher authority". In other words, let us say that I am the officer in command of a Predator drone battalion and I was receiving a call to bomb a building. I ask the soldier on the ground how many civilians are confirmed in the area. If that number is 30 or below, I do not need "Clearance" to move forward with the bombing. However, if that number is above 30, the commanding officer must move up the chain of command to get permission to proceed with the bombing. The fact that the number "30" is coming up so often is probably because there are more than 30 civilians killed per bombing and the military wants to be able to cover their ass. If there are more than 30 bodies discovered the military probably hides the other bodies or moves all of the remains so that nobody can obtain an authentic count.
Americans shouldn't question whether or not the military is actually adhering to the arbitrary 30 civilian death (collateral damage) rule, but rather, Americans should ask themselves whether or not any civilian deaths should be justified and if so in what case? It is ironic that our military's attitude towards "collateral damage" has created more "terrorists" than any other action our nation has ever taken. But, warmongering chicken-hawks have never been known to be fans of the logic or ethics (unless you count Act Utilitarianism).
Ya.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Interesting. Thanks for posting that.
If they are really hunting for terrorists, you don't use drones. I'm afraid it's much harder, and requires finding where they are and going after small (or large) groups.
I can see it's much easier, and maybe cheaper, to just bomb the whole village, and there's less risk to soldiers. But it's just wrong.
Zbignew said it's now cheaper and easier to kill one million people than it is to control them. I think that's very notable. I'm sure it applies to villages too.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
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