This Week: Steele Complains That Stimulus Bill Creating Work, Not Jobs
By Nicole Belle Sunday Feb 08, 2009 11:00am
In the "Can't See The Forest For The Trees" department, new RNC chairman (and clearly a MENSA-level economic specialist) Michael Steele bemoans the Stimulus Bill as it stands now. Why? Because it cuts out aid to those who need it the most (really, how will extending COBRA benefits to those poor saps who have lost their jobs recently help--that's just pork!)? Surely, you jest.
No, Steele objects to the Stimulus Bill because it doesn't offer jobs, it offers....wait for it...work. Say it with me now: WTF??
STEELE: But you've got to look at the entire package. You've got to look at what's going to create sustainable jobs. What this administration is talking about is making work. It is creating work.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's a job.
STEELE: No, it's not a job. A job is something that -- that a business owner creates. It's going to be long term. What he's creating...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So a job doesn't count if it's a government job? [..]
STEELE: ... That is a contract. It ends at a certain point, George. You know that. These road projects that we're talking about have an end point.
Okay, let me see if I follow this: we have historic unemployment levels not seen in decades and Steele thinks we shouldn't create jobs if they don't last forever...like in the private sector? Because those 600,000 layoffs last month alone and massive outsourcing in the private sector indicate such security for people...Steele continues this marvelous example of Republicanlogicspeak:
STEELE: As a small-business owner, I'm looking to grow my business, expand my business. I want to reach further. I want to be international. I want to be national. It's a whole different perspective on how you create a job versus how you create work. And I'm -- either way, the bottom line is...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess I don't really understand that distinction.
STEELE: Well, the difference -- the distinction is this. If a government -- if you've got a government contract that is a fixed period of time, it goes away. The work may go away. That's -- there's no guarantee that that -- that there's going to be more work when you're done in that job.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, but we've seen millions and millions of jobs going away in the private sector just in the last year.
STEELE: But they come -- yes, they -- and they come back, though, George. That's the point.
They come back? Really?
So, the answer for Steele is to not put money in people's pockets right now (money that generally goes right back into the economy for needs--unlike those tax cuts for the wealthy) and not employ them now, because the jobs may be gone in a few years? Not to mention the implicit idea that we are unable to walk and chew gum and that by providing "work" in the stimulus bill will keep us from helping small business owners at the same time.
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The only real distinctions are professions/occupations, income/salary/wages, work/laziness.
Is steal saying the government should help the lazy?
he's saying we should only help the rich. That way they can employ more nannies, maids, gardeners, and security staff, keep restaurants in business and theatre lights on by going out often.
Also there'd but a surge in armoured vehicles with bullet proof glass for said outings.
the repugs are only interested in creating wealth, not jobs. they want the money to go to their corperate buddies. they want the rich to get richer off of this plan. creating jobs, whether they are long term jobs or not, is going to help this country RIGHT NOW. after the country gets back on its feet, long term jobs will create themselves hopfully.
Mr. Steele (Madison), what you have just said, is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. - Sometimes goofy movies have the best and most appropriate lines. Thank you Billy Madison!
You have to be able to pull your emotions out of it. What he is saying makes good sense. Tax dollars pay for government work, we the middle class pay the brunt of the taxes. All the government work comes out of our pockets, it will help to deflate the dollar leading to runaway inflation. Obama's good intention stimulus is only throwing fuel on the fire.
A good analogy is this: Our house is on fire, parts of the house that burned have put people out of work. Obama's solution is to throw more fuel on the fire just to create fire fighter jobs. It makes that much sense.
Yes Wall Street is corrupt, but we should have crashed years ago, it is government intervention that has brought us to this huge crash because they refused to let us crash over and over. They keep trying to reflate a system that is trying to correct itself.
the man is a clown
lets say we give incentives to small biz (which really have never been there...repugs give the bulk of incentives to corporations)
can the small biz's hire all the laid off workers? really?
ok...lets say we are creating work jobs
well guess what, when that road is built and/or repaired it still needs maintanance...as do the bridges, buildings and every other piece of infrastructure
and im so sick of the idea that its only the biz owner that takes risks....the employee does too...and many times, its the employee that truly builds the biz
steele is a stepandfetchit clown
but on this point he does make a good point. Look I don't like a lot of things about the GOP, most of what they say make my gut churn, they are hypocrites on steroids.
I started studying economics and investing years ago because I realized a paycheck even a good one would not cut it for retirement, social security pays almost nothing. What I discovered almost 6 years ago a huge crash was coming. People like Robert Kiyosaki, Peter Schiff, Marc Faber, Max Keiser and a number of others were sounding the alarm and detailing what the issue was and how to prevent it.
Michael Maloney an adviser to Robert Kiyosaki laid out a pretty accurate scenario of what to expect before this crash started. It is frightfully dead on so far. So I don't take up too much space on this board I have placed an excerpt of here for peoples review.
Read it and ask yourself if were are not indeed doing exactly what he wrote.
on this...the government is not "making work", it is offering to invest in sustainable jobs. Money will be put into infrastructure repair and upgrades, for example, which will allow many local contractors to take on new jobs, and thus expanding their employee base.
when THOSE people spend their paychecks at local businesses it should be like a good domino effect.
ie. "stimulus", as in get this thing moving again.
The one question no one here contemplating is where is the money going to come from? It has to come from somewhere.
The answer is we're going to borrow it, assuming we can get someone to lend it to us, China is just about done doing that. The US is insolvent and the world is not so willing to fork up the money.
Well, Obama is going to get his way and in a few years the reality of what I am saying is going to be terribly obvious, I'm not looking forward to that
Enough with this "where is the money going to come from?" meme...where have you been the last 50 years or more? America has rarely had the "cold hard cash" in the bank to pay for everything it needs to, thanks in large part to the continual non-payment of taxes by the wealthy and the corporations (who somehow gained "individual" status in the eyes of the law). For most of the last century, we have operated in the red, borrowing "futures" as it were, even in times of prosperity.
Give us all a break, and stop repeating the same old song every time you show up. You're a one-trick pony and that trick is pretty stale by now. Here's some advice from an old salt: Suck it up, lady!
The last 38 years we have had little hard cash, and it should concern you where it coming from and the fact no one here can answer that question. My one trick pony is going to haunt this nation in a few years because people didn't listen or ask that worn out question. Stale? If you don't ask today where the money is coming from in about 2 or 3 years you might pray for stale loaf of bread.
Only 80 years ago we had a depression, every 70 to 100 years there is a depression because the succeeding generation forgets the lessons of the previous ones. Look up what a Kondratieff wave is. Start educating yourself on economics and the history of money.
It would help if people pulled their emotions out of this and really tried to understand. I am not a Steele fan for many other reasons but I understand what he is saying here, it makes sense.
All government work while honest good work is a liability on the books, there is no positive cash flow, no profitable business model. Assets feed you, liabilities eat you. A business is an engine that creates cash flow, it accelerates the velocity of money and allows for additional investment in which one may capitalize on their success. That is good capitalism. The government is a dependent of the people and therefore an expense and burden to the tax payer (and who pays the brunt of the taxes?). Government work does not itself create wealth.
Too much government work creates a system which feeds on itself and ultimately defeats itself.
All derived prosperity resulting from government work comes at greater expense to the tax payer. Essentially the back pocket is paying the front pocket, there is no new external wealth. It’s only revenue stream is from our tax dollars and as of late deficit spending, borrowing against our future from foreign countries whom we cannot ever repay. While Wall Street and banks are fleecing the country today our government has done a damn good job as well, to the tune of $10, Trillion before all this craziness broke out.
The solution is to reduce spending, foreign debt is the problem. You don't fix debt with more debt.
The problem is that the population is not spending.
Consumer confidence is down. No one is buying anything. That puts small business owners in a bind too.
Infrastructure spending puts money into people's pocket by way of jobs (there are other associated benefits, but let's keep it simple for this exercise). With jobs, they spend money, stimulating the economy and helping those small business owners too.
We have a crippling unemployment rate. We need to get people working. The best way to do that is to create jobs.
I'm not thrilled about the debt either. But I'd much rather spend a trillion dollars at home and get ourselves decent broadband, highways, bridges, green energy, better schools, etc. than to pour it into the sands of the Middle East.
There's an old real estate axiom that you have to spend money to make money. The investments we make now in the stimulus bill will come back to us threefold--if we're smart about how we do this and invest in this country, not in more tax cuts.
i agree with nicole
right now, there is no incentive that will improve my biz...unless the gov sends me a check every month
right now i have guys underbidding me and taking away customers that i have had for years, as they look to stretch every penny
steele's idea is to give tax breaks....but those usually go to the top, not guys like me
the thing that needs to be done is get people back to work and spending....that will increase the monetary flow so that people can again invest in improving their businesses
it will put money in peoples pockets and then a year or two down the road a new ugly can of worms will get opened up and we will be facing higher cost of goods, not just a little higher but a lot.
Look I know I have been a vocal voice here on this, not to be combative but to get people to understand. If we get this wrong we're all really screwed. I am glad Obama is our president for many reasons, on the economy though both parties are wrong, both were for the bail-out and McCain hinted he would do that same as Obama is now.
Check these links out, they clearly explain the issues
Peter Schiff: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster"
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/...
Marc Faber: Stimulus will be a disaster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy1NFhOtNNY&fe...
Thanks for your time
Promised my kids a movie matinee...
but I see nothing in the blurb accompanying Schiff that gives an alternative solution.
I don't think that investing in infrastructure will create an artificial bubble.
so we're going to get see how this unravels, I was responding a to a post above by Uncle Joe Mccarthy, in it a link to an excerpt of book written by Michael Maloney before this crash started detailing what we might expect.
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/week-s...
The difficult part about this is trying get people see and believe the point I am making. To fully understand requires more time on the topic of business, money, and the history of money than most folks have.
I'm not suggesting people here aren't smart or don't know some of this. I would like to be wrong about this because I don't want to see us fail anymore than anyone here. I have fortunately and unfortunately read enough to be certain in what I am asserting here.
I still see no alternative solutions.
I see a lot of dismissal of the Fed trying to artificially control the value of currency or printing currency, neither of which is on the table here.
I feel like we're arguing apples and Buicks right now.
First we need to recognize we should have done something when all those wall street idiots were sucking on fine drinks and patting themselves on the back for the killing they made. That was the time do something but Bush was an idiot the Republicans were drunk with power.
Because of the bailout which Bush blessed and both parties voted for, the continued dollar printing by the FED, and now Obama’s stimulus we are going to experience an L shaped recovery instead of V shaped recovery which would have been hard but recovery faster. Now we will languish without recovery for years.
What they should have done is let the banks and businesses fail. With the money spent so far the government we could have bought every distressed mortgage out there with hundreds of billions left over. That is staggering, hell I’d be happy to lose my job if it meant my house got paid off.
Instead it’s been handled exactly the opposite, we the tax payers got to buy the toxic assets, that’s right the government bought the crap that will not recover. The incompetent asses who begged for a bailout got their bonuses, threw a party, and got to keep the healthy aspects of their company. Maybe they’ll run those into the ground too being financial idiots. When you give someone with bad financial habits money all you do is place a magnifying glass on their bad habits. New $50 million jet anyone?
Peter Schiff adds details of what should be done in his video I linked above it’s a short news piece, really worth the watch.
I think we should give credit where credit is due. (pun intended)
Congress vote: (H.R. 1424 [110th]: Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008)
House Vote On Passage: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote...
Senate Vote On Passage: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote...
You said > What we should do and should have done
"After the companies failed they could and still should incentivized private money to come in and buy up the assets,"
[companies]? > you mean Banks and or Brokerage firms? Ya remember Morgan Stanley & Goldman Sachs became traditional bank holding companies on September 22, 2008 presumably too get at that TARP $$$ I think?
I don't think banks go bankrupt "Per se "? Doesn't the FDIC step in to divvy up the bank(s), pay off the depositors up to $250,000 vs the previous $100,000 FDIC limit and then find a buyer? Looking from one side, I see an inevitable day when not un-like Walmart in the retail sector, JP Morgan or one of his pals holds all the marbles, kinda like (John D. Rockefeller) did with "Standard Oil". Note > Standard Oil was convicted in Federal Court of monopolistic practices and broken up in 1911.
I hate to say it, but you can count the Yea's & Nay's, fear, greed, party or otherwise, more Democrats voted for the bank bail-out then Republicans.
I don't know what would have happened if the banks went bust? Screw the investor's or screw FDIC?
In a hurry, mistakes are made... We will get this new influx of cash/bail-out and people will be relieved, not all grant you, but sooner or later in hindsight we'll see the problem started at the bank. The eyes are opening now but first things first. We can only put so much straw on the camel's back before we'll need a new camel. I admire your knowledge and effort... thanks
Thanks truth_critic I'm glad you see both sides of an argument, I catch heat from a number who don't but that is to be expected.
that's all ya can do...
The players have changed names and uniforms to stay in the game...
Last one standing wins! The better you know the rules, the longer you play the game. There is collateral/assets and then there is unsecured obligations. The fed now or around 1970's just give us paper notes and we give them our country as collateral. The world banking scheme has worked for the few but not the many. I wish for one more splash of cash to resuscitate this new day and claw back what was heisted from this fine Nation.
They'll find the source of the problem in time... Be it now or later there will be trouble. The scheme has run it's course. I'm interested too see who is gonna be king of the hill?
Your free market talk is all fine and dandy.
But I must ask you this; are you OK with all of the country's wealth being in so few hands while millions of people are getting the short end of the stick?
The way I see it is the government can artificially create jobs to feed the millions of unemployed.
OR we can "REDISTRIBUTE" wealth.
WHO THE FUCK do these people think they are - CEO's making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars while laying off tens of thousands of working class people.
The system is FUCKED, and one way or the motherfucking other the working man has to get his fair shake.
So if you're not for the stimulus, and you're not for putting a cap on how much one single dickhead can earn so there is money for thousands of others, please take your bull shit somewhere else.
we have been lied to, all of us. I could write pages and pages on this. Their are good business people out there who have decried the corruption but gotten little attention. I am not for the corrupt asses. I work for a living like most and my paycheck is nowhere near that big.
For example, when it come to investing in the stock market every mainstream program tells you to buy mutual funds, a certain amount of stocks, hedge funds etc. Then they bring on an expert CFP to give you the details of these wonderful tools and oh yes diversify, diversify, diversify your investments. Don’t forget to call your broker today!
I damn near threw a brick at my TV after the 7 day slide on MSNBC brought on a financial expert who pumped that bull shit in the face of massive crash. Warren Buffet said it best “Wide diversification is only required when investors do not understand what they are doing.”
What they don't tell you is CFP's and brokers are often little more than glorified sales people who don't know jack about economics, business, or investing and often know nothing about fiduciary responsibility. They are there to sell you their company’s investment tools and those financial experts on TV are contractually obligated to not tell you the truth, they can’t because they sign away that right when they go to work for companies like JP Morgan, and all those buffoons that crashed.
The savviest investors saw this coming years ago, some of them have been hording gold and silver since the late 80’s in preparation for this, the truly rich are getting richer because they saw it and prepared for it. Some people became very wealthy in that 7 day slide shorting the stocks in to the ground. Here see what I mean and read this.
Robert Kiyosaki Why the Rich Get Richer
Eve of Destruction: How the Financial Crisis Was Built Into the System
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/richr...
The savvy investors expect hyperinflation and have already invested for it, Obama is doing exactly what they expected him to do. I have invested for it too, I have far fewer positions. I would gladly see my investments give average returns or a loss in trade for a proper recovery. I would gladly go through the pain we need to if it saves our country for our kids, and my kid.
When a "smart" business has to cut costs, by reducing payroll... whom do they cut?
Do they cut those employees who've consistently failed to perform? Do they cut those employees who fail to reach out and befriend their coworkers and colleagues and who fail to innovate?
No.
They look at - who calls in sick and who schedules the fewest vacations. They look at - who earns the lowest salary. And as long as those employees, those deadbeats unwilling to work harder so they can earn more, those weird little shits who've won the Perfect Attendance Award the last 5 years in a row - as long as they don't have any noticeable reprimands in their personnel profile... those are the employees you keep.
Its a simple matter of cost-savings. and employees who earn less and fail to use their PTO hours, are your most cost-effective employees.
When a failure in Sales and Operations creates a company-wide decline in profits, most CEOs allow their Finance and HR executives to fix the mess. But HR and Finance aren't forward-thinking enough to realize that their decisions could very well exacerbate the problem they've been directed to repair.
This business model is consistent throughout most major American industries, from Automotive to IT. The message indirectly sent from America's most powerful executives is crystal clear. Don't embrace your job with a passion. Don't count on us taking care of you, even if you take care of us. Don't work harder when you get here, and for christ's sake if you *DO* exceed expectations, do *NOT* demand a higher salary just because you're exceptional. Don't call us, we'll call you.
*****
The situation looks grim, but if we take a few steps back, we see that - we've taken America's best and brightest inventors, engineers and project managers - and we've released them from the chains of corporate practices and non-disclosure agreements. And it is precisely why I support the bulk of President Obama's Stimulus Bill.
Not only have we lost 3.6 million jobs in the last 18 months... but by reviewing the basic, "common sense" business practices I just outlined... we can easily deduce that many - possibly even most? - of the 3.6 million employees who lost their jobs in the last 18 months, are some of the best damn employees who ever worked for their former employers.
The people who lost their jobs in the last 18 months, probably earned more than their colleagues. They probably earned more than their colleagues, because they approached their work with a passion, they fucking *delivered* better than their colleagues, and when profits looked a little better, they were confident enough with themselves to demand higher compensation.
President Obama wants to pull money out of thin air - which, very reasonably - upsets many fiscal conservatives. But he wants to pull money out of thin air, to put those 3.6 million Americans back to work.
Fixing overpasses and bridges and freeways and levees before more break, causing tragedies like we saw in Minneapolis and New Orleans. Re-vamping schools. Upgrading hospitals. He wants to invest in infrastructural repairs.
And the first people in line to take those new jobs?
They will not be the lethargic, trudging, boring fuddy duddys that managed to keep their jobs. They will be the 3.6 million innovative - and at this point, desperate - top-shelf employees that overbloated, overpriced, poor-value corporations chose to let go.
We have an opportunity to have some of the best damn employees that our nation ever raised, get right to work on fixing some of the most dangerous, and most important resources that all of us use.
And - who knows - enough motivated engineers get into a room together to discuss some of the hurdles they're facing... there's a damn good chance they'll find a multi-purpose solution.
which can easily be patented, and mass-produced.
which can easily turn into a new industry.
which we can then sell to Europe and the Chinese at an inflated cost.
which we can then use to boost our dollar back up to where it used to be.
the economic conditions we're facing now, and sharp minds out of work and desperate to earn new revenue...
well, these are the same kinds of conditions that led to the invention of the printing press. and the light bulb. and the PC operating system.
and even if we do get further in debt with China to rebuild our bridges and schools... well... its not like China can come over here and repossess the Golden Gate, right?
if nothing else, its a good investment for our out of work engineers to spend this time repairing our bridges and overpasses - if for no other reason, just to keep them sharp and on their toes.
Mr. Steele is an idiot. and based on yesterday's posts? a thief, to boot.
The jobs business owners create are also temporary when they can so easily cancel contracts and outsource the work, or in Freedom To Work States like Texas, can fire you for any or no reason.
Right to Work States.
Republicans fascinate me- They love to change the meaning of words to fit their curious philosphy....
Last time I checked a job is work, and work is a job....
Which do you suppose pays better?
How many unemployed people want work, but not a job?
How many want a job, but not work?
part time. no benefits.
"How was I boss? Did I forget anything you told me to say?" They want nothing to be done.
I saw that clip elsewhere and I, well, my mouth hung open for an extended period of time... Steele is STUNNINGLY stupid. I'm NO fan of George S., but dang, the look on his face was perfect - it was like "What the hell is this moron going on about?"
What Steele said was so wrong on so many levels, and so filled with arrogant hypocrisy and stupidity, I really don't even know where to begin.
EVERYTHING he said was either completely wrong, or completely stupid. One could go line for line and deconstruct his jejune nonsense. But that would hurt...so much...
It seems that the Republicans have gone from one dimbulb in Palin to another in Steele. These two make Rush look like a towering intellect.
I heard a small business owner call into the Ed Schultz Show the other day and basically say "FUCK TAX CUTS FOR HIM" - that what he needed was CUSTOMERS THAT HAD MONEY TO SPEND - *NOT* MORE TAX CUTS.
QUITE SIMPLY AND INSTANTANEOUSLY DISPROVED REPUPLICANS TAX CUTS NONSENSE if you ask me.
and I saw something else interesting the other day. The CEO of Netflix is suggesting that instead of limiting executive compensation to $500,000, let them make more....but tax the higher amount at 50%!
Repugs would cringe at paying 50%, even on excessively high income....it's always tax cut, tax cut, tax cut!
Idiots.
Limit them to 500k AND tax at 50%. I see it as a win-win all around.
The more I see of Michael Steele, the more I dislike him. That "jobs vs. work" distinction is really, really annoying me. Think I will have to send Mr. Steele another email.
... should be 'factor' x 'income of average worker'
Factor would be something like '10' or '12' and could vary between industries.
If the average worker earns $15.00/hr, a CEO's pay would be limited to $150.00/hr, assuming a factor of 10, or $180.00/hr, assuming a factor of 12. If the average worker's pay is raised, the Executive 'could' also benefit times the factor. If they want to raise the Executive's pay, they must also raise the pay of the average worker
i thought 'clueless' at first, but i really believe he's just lying...
but he seems to believe that he is a smooth one...
Twisting himself into knots so he doesn't have to admit that government can and does create jobs. They keep pushing this idea that only the "private sector" can create jobs because it fits their ideology, not because it has anything to do with reality. But that's a conservative for you.
Its amazing how Republicans can talk out their ass, Let me see if I can explain this. The difference between a job and a work... the difference between the head of the Republican party and a moron... Wait...THERE THE SAME THING. Republicans.. 8 years of BS.
and 8 years is not nearly enough for these criminals! They wanna say how we should listen to their good 'ideas' for job creation, then you ask them where they have been for 8 years and they say they don't wanna look backwards!
I would say Steele should be ashamed of himself except if you have no morals or values you can not have shame.
he's MENSA level EVERYTHING
Steele thinks the Mensa level has Coffee, Books and Small Appliances
is his compassion. It's so...conservative.
What exactly is a "long term" job these days? One that lasts more than a few months?
Republicans, themselves temporary workers, should be the first to acknowledge the transient nature of employment. Of course, not every unemployed American can fall back on a pseudo-career as a kept puppy corporate consultant/lobbyist that goes on puffed up speaking tours where they practice their future stump speeches on the company dime.
ignore Steele. He has nothing to offer so why give him the time of day.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess I don't really understand that distinction.
STEELE: Well, the difference -- the distinction is this. If a government -- if you've got a government contract that is a fixed period of time, it goes away. The work may go away. That's -- there's no guarantee that that -- that there's going to be more work when you're done in that job.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, but we've seen millions and millions of jobs going away in the private sector just in the last year.
STEELE: But they come -- yes, they -- and they come back, though, George. That's the point.
*****
If we fix our bridges and schools now, and educate the children we have now, we won't ever need to fix any more roads or educate any more children. the work will just DRY UP!
HURR DURRRR...
Dickhead!
I'm really sick of repugnicons, to the point of psychosis
...as are most of the Repugs and conservatives. I'm growing very tired of their idiocy, arrogance, greed, inhumanity. All I see is them with stupid posters showing dollar bills stacked to the moon or waving around stacks of paper while they moan and complain.
I've yet to hear ONE of them offer a viable, alternative solution to this financial crisis other than freakin' tax cuts. How will cutting taxes for someone who has no income help him/her put food On His/Her Family!?! How do they think theses millions who've lost their jobs will pay for the barest necessities of life??? Do they even care if they die???
No, I'm convinced Republicans don't care if people die. Would they be so dead set against universal health care if they did? Tens of thousands die every year from not seeking health care early enough because they're not insured. Who gives a damn, right?
Now, if you're a fetus, they care very much. But once you're born, they couldn't care less.
OK, let's all say on three - "You're an idiot"....
We can also get a group chant going about typical republicans but that's down the list somewhere..
EVERYONE should read this:
Wanted: Personal Economic Trainers for the Senate
By Susie Madrak Sunday Feb 08, 2009 9:00am
Posted below....we're dealing with IQ's the size of walnuts...
She could 'splain shit all day long to these fuckwits. After all, she was advising EVERYONE SHE KNEW 9 months ago to get the fuck out of the market, and into Tbills.
Her best friend lost half of her assets and her neighbour is no longer getting to retire at 62. Because they didn't listen to her.
Neither did her ex boss...
When they are willing to deny basic scientific principals, why should we trust them with math?
If I am able to work and get a job for three months, what does that do?
It gives me more work experience, perhaps.
It gets me out of the house, where I might be wallowing in grief over my situation
It makes me feel as though I'm contributing
I'll be paying FICA and SSI and UEI taxes for the most part
It will ease the burden on the UEI system
It will stretch my UEI benefits 3 extra months
It will put me out in the world where I can network, and maybe find another, more 'permanent' job, or another three months of work, w/ above benefits repeated.
Yeah Steele, you greedy thieving cold motherfucking token get-along guy...It is a Bad Idea.
Which is to disagree with Obama and the democrats no matter how dumb you sound in the process. What an idiot!!
they keep exposing their stupidheadedness this way, we may have a chance. it couldn't take more that a high school freshman's understanding of market economy to see through this.
It is all just another bubble, a federal deficits bubble, this time.
The stock bubble worked until it burst.
The housing bubble worked until it burst.
A deficit bubble will work until it bursts.
Every parabolic fails. The commodities bubble drove oil prices in a parabolic curve to 147 a barrel. The price then collapsed to under 40 dollars. Federal deficits are going parabolic. Deficits too, will collapse and the outcome will not be pretty. The math will force the government to cut spending, whether it wants to or not.
The math is never wrong.
The politics is all a clown show.
1. Oil prices didn't collapse. They are holding steady i nthe $40bbl range. In 1998 they held in the $10 - $12 range. So, assuming $40 is the new "bottom", then we're looking at a 400% increase in price over 10 years, or, 35% inflation, year over year for 4 years. That is not a price collapse.
2. The deficit bubble can work for a VERY long time. How? Interest rates. First, you have to understand one fundamental fact: I'm putting it in caps not to Shout, but more to be VERY clear.
THE DEBT IS NOT GOING TO GET PAID BACK, NOR WAS IT EVER SUPPOSED TO GET PAID BACK.
The debt is, fundamentally, a subsidy to banks and other large moneyholders. Not to PAY IT BACK, but to PAY THE INTEREST on the loan, INDEFINITELY.
See? This way the parasites at the top of the economic foodchain have a permanent subsidy to their operations. If the USgov were to pay back a $10trillion debt at the rate of $1million a day, it would take 27,379 years to pay back a $10trillion debt. OK? So, the facy is: it is NOT getting paid back. Period. So, now the only question is a matter of interest rate. So, if you have 1/billionth a percent interest, you can make the payments on a $1trillion debt at the rate of $1000 per increment, and that's only $10,000 for $10trillion.
Is this sustainable? Hell no. However, it is a shell game that can go on a lot longer than the previous scams (housing, commodities) - jst jimmy the numbers into the calculus.
In my view there is only one real solution for the USA, and that is a wholesale adoption of socialism. The gov't will have to completely nationalise the banking industry (not partly as it is now) and that would disolve the trillions pissed away on the loans. It would also pull a few trillion dollars out of the system, making money and capital more valuable, but this can be countered with direct gov't loans.
The govt' will have to also nationalise the health industry and the pensioning systems,and eventually, do the obvious and make the military corporations government bureaus (similar to the soviet system, only better managed).
Then the great war will come - the final battle over the remaining oil in the middle east. That will finish off the war machine, and after a massive die off around 2060, a few centuries later, the world will regress to a level of existence roughly equivalent to that of 1720.
The use and extraction of metal will follow a similar, but longer, depletion curve than that of petroleum. If it follows the same shape as for oil (a bell curve, but the decline in useful resources much steeper after the peak), we will be back in the stone age around the year 3550, perhaps as late as 4000.
If the human race survives the 21st century, it will likely meet its demise in another 100,000 years as we evolve into a group of different species adapted for local conditions. In the interim, 90% of the remaining humans/humanoids will leave near the tropically hot arctic circle in semi agrarian neolithic groups, the rest of the planet a harrowing desert. Civilisation - the practice of humans living in cities will have ceased around the year 6000 AD.
Why wasn't the Virginia Gov on to counter this... oh, wait...
Dean always gave me pause but he did end up getting our side heard, but Tim is...
Can we make Johnny Turley the Dem leader. I know he's a libertarian, but damn, Kaine is pathetic.
i've been trying to figure out where the hell the dems are, have been, and why they aren't out pushing back on all this crap...
so, that was howard's job? time to let kaine know what we need!
Have they redefined it so many times that they no longer know what it means? Where do these fiscal conservatives think their salary comes from exactly? When they start discussing their own salary cuts, then I might possibly consider their sincerity. With rhetoric like this, the Republican Party is a dead man walking.
I was willing to give this guy a chance, but no more. I never did like him when he showed up on Hannity's show, and this interview here shows me why.
HE'S GOT HIS HEAD UP HIS REPUBLICAN ASS!
over his head and drunk with newly acquired power, two very bad things when combined with an abysmal lack of gray matter.
Someone should remind him that a few years ago the people he represents would have had him bronzed and used as a lawn jockey.
the private sector. Seems once they get enough money set up shop abroad they send the work overseas and THEY DON'T COME BACK. We all know why they stay over there. If only they taxed the s*** out of companies that outsourced labor. Oh yeah we need to fix our crumbling infrastructure. We can kill two birds with one stone with that one. At least I know here in MN roads need to be fixed all the time. These thugs come up with a new excuse every damn time, next it won't be acceptable because it wasn't written in blue ink.
So I guess all those short term contracts in software development that go to work visa immigrants instead of Americans with masters and phds aren't jobs? Good to know.
The GOP never makes any sense. Their logic is always screwed up. Go back and listen to Steele and you see he makes no sense. That is why the US is crashing. The GOP always slows down progress with idiot ideas.
That IS the ORDER OF THE DAY for the Steele and his Republicans.
Their tortured and tangled logic goes like this: If Obama's stimulous package stops the free-fall of the economy... or maybe turns it around... then the Republicans will have to acknowledge it was their fault in the first place, and they will be relegated to the ash heap of history as a viable leadership entity for the next two or three generations.
However, if they can turn "Bush's Recession" into "Obama's DEPRESSION," then they will blame the Democratic Party for all of our problems and try to stage a political come-back 2012.
To Republicans, a "real" job is the work somebody does to make somebody else rich. The government infrastructure jobs aren't going to make any Republican donors wealthy, so it's "pork," unlike war, which does and therefore is a worthy government expenditure.
They're dead set against any investment in America's future that isn't guaranteed to produce more millionaire and billionaire tycoons... and a bigger underclass of have-notbots. I think I just coined a new term.
Absolutely correct.
It was Karel Čapek, a Czech writer who coined the term "robot," which first appeared in his play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) in 1920.
These weren't mechanical men, but rather drudge workers of huge machines similar to the later underground workers of Thea Von Harbou and Fritz Lang's Metropolis, the dehumanized worker.
Ya Tvoy Sluga, Ya Tvoy Rabotnik...
Kind of like the background characters in the temporary Itchy and Scratchy replacement, Worker and Parasite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ&fe...
In a matter of days, Steele went from looking like a good mainstream pick for RNC chairman to just a darker version of republican ignorance and arrogance.
The other day he swore up and down that government has NEVER created jobs.
Today:
Michael Steele is a total idiot. He wants to support small businesses. There is nothing wrong with supporting small businesses, but not by giving them more money, but by providing them more customers. What will that small business manager, who is down to one employee, down from 3 (due to the recession), who now sits on his butt half of the time because no one is buying, do? Hire another one to sit next to him? The stimulus needs to create more customers, which will move the manager to hire someone else to handle the line waiting to get into his store, while creating another job (the one he just hired).
Have you looked lately who in their party is being listened to?
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Steele
Foxnews clowns
Mark Levin
Cunningham
Ann Coulter
Laura Ingraham
Dick Cheney
Pat Buchanan
Bailey Hutchison
Sarah Palin
Jon Kyl
Mitch McConnell
John McCain
John Boehner
Lindsey Graham
Cantor
Not a single one of them worth the powder to blow them to hell, as my father would have said.
[Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor]..
Most of American's really believe that you can spend your way
out of this problem, FAT CHANCE!!! What American needs to do is
get out of these "Free Trade" agrements that do nothing for the American worker, The Government should be taxing the Shit out of
every corperation that sends real jobs out of this country! Reward
the Corperation with tax cuts that make products in the United States. Not until we bring Manufacturing back to the United States will this economy get back on track. Rewarding States and Corperations that have spent themselfs into oblivion with more
of our Tax dollars will do nothing. But Democrats and Neo Cons have
sold the American worker out. "Shovel Ready" projects are not the answer, Most of these jobs will be snapped up by all the union workers that are at union halls waiting for jobs,[Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor] Just short term, Inflating the dollar and transfering all this debt to our childrens children will do nothing but destroy the dollar as the World Reserve currancy,
Most of you seem to think that Government can solve all these economic problems, With a track record of this Congress were in the world do you get your facts that Government is going to do a better job?
I believe less government is the answer! Let the Free Markets work, If a business fails, produces bad products and rewards the Shareholders, They should be allowed to fail! That is what happens when you run a bad business. Think about this the Fed has increased the Money supply in the United States by 70% since Oct 1 they cut intrest rates to 0% Still nothing is working, So you really believe giving the banks and failed business around this Country more money will solve these problems? Or Giving states money? Ask yourself were is this huge stockpile of cash coming from? What if China and the Saudies stop buying US T Bills? When you inflate the dollar the Dollar becomes worthless Then prices go UP on everything, Then Government comes in to enact Price controlls on things, The manufacter of this price controlled goods can not keep up with the demand for these goods because he if forced to sell these goods at a set price, So he can not take his profits and expand production of these high demand items, Then shortages will force the black market to fill the needs of the average consumer. Obama is in way over his head, He has hired Greed Heads and Lairs, Great pick on the New Tresuary secrtary, A guy was paid money to pay his taxes on SS and Medi care did he pay, Nope he kept the loot! You people just don't get it! Government is the problem, Neo Con Republican War Mongers and Democrat a Chicken in every potters have destroyed this Country, Divided Americans You people spend your time blaming one side or the other, When both sides are nothing more than Chicken Hawk Gread head Swine and you really believe they care about you and your family just from there Lies, Change Yeah we are going to see change, That will be that stuff in your pocket when they are through destroying the Dollar! Funny Stuff, I am amazed, I mean most of you would be easy to scam! I did not support Mcain or Obama, Because both of them were saying the same thing, Why don't you people google Peter Shiff, and listen to the man! Because of him I got out of the Stock Market Feb 08 With a nice pile of loot, I paid off all my debt execpt my homes, Did not want to get hit with captial gains, I have a fixed morgage at a 4.2 and my home and land cost me 1025 dollars a month,All of my vehicals are paid for, I have a high paying job and my wife has a high paying job,
We have no credit card debt no car loans, We are investing in foriegn currencies and gold about 20% in gold, This economy is crashing like an Airplane flown by John Mcain, Nothing Obama or the Congress can do to stop it. WAKE UP!!! Slogans and spending are not going to save the economy. Manufactering,Saving, and ENDING THE WARS will save the economy! Watch the Dollar!
The sitemonitor has removed only those points where you've channeled your fifth grade schoolyard bully self and reduced the discussion to name calling.
If you're interested in discussing the economy, I suggest strongly you refer yourself to the commenting policy, learn some manners and retry again with something that resembles civility.
But if you're unwilling to leave the fifth-grade, I'm sure that slashdot or the Fox News forums will be happy to host you.
And government are the same thing! Have you looked lately where they come from and more importantly where they go when they are finished in government? The larded meme that government can't run things as well as business is a joke. They are the same people for Gods sake! Maybe you can see our problem now?
There is a vast amount of difference between work and a job. Work is when you have to go in, do your best and someday get laid off (because asshat republicans didn't move fast enough in a (Level 5?) recession to listen to reason and stimulate the economy with a giant spending bill and instead, postured and whined and talked about useless tax cuts). A job is something sustainable like being a republican senator or chairman of the RNC. Foodstamps are a handout and are wasteful, so are unemployment benefits and planned parenthood.
Wow! A troll showed up to run a wild screed and rant at us poor lefty,s and progressives. Does everybody feel put in their place now? Hahahahahaha...Nice try guy.
So nice for Jafar! Rawk!
Troll? Well I responding to the negative comments that do not address the facts and just point blame I was not trying to put anyone in there place, I was refering to the pot calling the kettle black syndrom that seems to have affected sane people, But hey thanks for reading my post, Hahahahaha, Really Goggle Peter Shiff, And I do apoligize for the rant, I just hate how low the intellectual Level has dropped,[Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor]I am a American first I am Conservative on some things and Liberal on others, HAHAHA
[Deleted. Abusive-Sitemonitor]
[To answer your question on the flag: You ARE a troll. You are the very definition of a troll. And if people from this site went to a site where your views are the norm and started calling you names and reading you the riot act in a rambling rant such as the one you've posted on this site, they would be the trolls. As for us being like FOX News, we're not. If we were, I'd have deleted your comments in their entirety and banned you without a word. I only took out the parts in your screed that stooped to the level of Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity. You are in OUR house-Sitemonitor]
Does Republican hero Joe the Plumber have a job, or does he just work?
He apparently is a plumber; he's been on a commercial telling his viewers about the digital television conversion; he's been a reporter for Pajamas Media; and most recently, he has been an advisor for the RNC (I guess he's always been an advisor to the Repubes, ever since he became famous.)
Did JTP's contract end for each of these stints?
I'm just really curious.
I must admit Rafer troll made more wrong headed sense then Steele did.
Much like the latest addition to the propaganda network, glen beck, who looks so foolish and out to lunch....this ass hat, steele, is just another cog in the giant wheel of self destruction to the repug/fascist party.
Granted, some will follow no matter how ridiculous the spew sounds and the logic lacks; but I firmly believe even the more intelligent of the repug/fascist party are rubbing their heads in dismay. This is a sad day for the neocons. They have lost their host for their parasitic aspirations.
To hell with the repug party. beck and steele are just two more nails in the coffin. Good riddance. Treasonous and traitorous...but they can walk away because this is the land of the morons, home of the "nationalist buffoons".
America....land of a few million morons. But hey, that's no crime in the USA.
Wouldn't it have been easier if you just said, "Hulk SMASH!!!"
... then I've got one word for him:
UNIONS.
Let's see how fast that meme dissolves now.
Steele had a short run and now he's finished as Rush moves in the seat. It was only a matter of time for Steele as he is not the picture or the directiion Republicans are going. Republicans have chosen Joe the Plummer as the Republican Economic Adviser. This will be a shoe in for Obama/Biden with the 2012 electiion. The pass will never come back and someone should tell the Republican Party. I must say many Republicans are against the wing nuts running it now as the smart Law Makers are not getting involved.
I can see that if you don't come on here and bash republicans and Praise democrats or the Left Then you are deleted, I thought Crooks and lairs expose hypociracy in the Government and in people. Well I will leave and I wont return, It seems that no one wants to debate the facts as believe the hype. Good luck with that, I got the same treatment over at Fox. Have a nice day
[No. I won't remove them-Sitemonitor]
[Someone else removed your last invective while I was editing it, so I'll stick your last post and my last message to you here, Rafer.]
Rafer says:
Fuck YOU, You are just as bad as the ones you attack
[You did the attacking here, buddy. Now you are banned. Here's something to take away from this experience. If you weren't banned, you could have erased the posts yourself, using the edit key. You and you wife enjoy those 'high paying jobs' -- while they last-Sitemonitor]
Please don't delete this. It's very instructive as to the mind-set of those who would come to a liberal site to lecture us on the inadequacies of our intellectual opinions, albeit with a distinct lack of a grasp of spelling, grammar, or any genuine critical thinking. Besides, it's good for a laugh, too.
You don't have to praise Democrats or the left (as I scroll through our posts, I see several critical of the Democrats). The comments are full of posters who see little difference between the right and left in DC.
But you DO have to be civil in your posting and not call the community names and essentially post flame bait.
If you have a legitimate bone to pick, do so. We like civil conversations and honest discussions. But if all you do is come in with both barrels blasting us, then it's patently obvious that isn't what you've come for.
I like watching harsh opinions being countered with just banter...
Good job and kudos, I send too the "Digital Deputies" @ http://crooksandliars.com
"It is hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail."
[Lech Walesa]
1. Oil prices didn't collapse. They are holding steady i nthe $40bbl range.
----------------
147 to around 35 over a several month period, is a collapse.
RonJ wrote:
====================================
147 to around 35 over a several month period, is a collapse.
====================================
Only in a VERY short term relative sense. If you look at oil prices in the 70s, adjusted for inflation, they were just about as bad as last summer's run up. But we don't remember the late 70s or early 80s as a time of "oil price collapse" - we saw it as a re-correction to a corrected marginal price. Which, oddly enough, $40bbl is, as well. The reason? FLAT production since 2005. We're in the "plateau period of oil depletion. It will be like this as long as we keep demand at or just below production. We need to do that in order to use the remaining oil ot build the energy infrastructure for the post-carbon future.
So, sorry, but your point of "price collapse" is a kind of "optical illusion". Prices are high, and are bound to go higher. I would go into details, but space constraints prevent that. Suffice to say, I'm a bit of an expert on this stuff...
In the late '60s, I worked in a steel mill to get through college. One of the projects I worked on was the stainless steel facade of the World Trade Center. But the contract was completed, the job I held is now gone, and the work product is gone too. So Steele apparently thinks I never had a job after all!
What a dope.
2. The deficit bubble can work for a VERY long time. How? Interest rates. First, you have to understand one fundamental fact: I'm putting it in caps not to Shout, but more to be VERY clear.
--------------------
Once parabolic, a bubble does not last all that long. Deficits are going parabolic.
Hi Ron-
Agreed- but the deficits only matter if you have any intention of paying them. IF you have no intention of paying the debt, then deficits don't matter. All that matters is the ability to service the debt. And that is controlled by interest rates. If the interest rates are low enough, then you could finance quadrillion or quintillion dollar debts, or simply go for the exponent number. Right now were at 9x10^12 (9 trillion). Add a couple of exponents and you have 9x10^14. As long as you meet the payments on the interest, it doesn't matter. And if the interest rate is effectively zero, then you never have to pay the debt. Ever. What comes into play is not some mathematical truth (such as your parabolic curve - which I DO agree with in theory) but HUMAN truth.
It's not "how comfortable are people in holding some arbitrarily huge debt, say, 23x10^18" but more: what is the level of subsidy the debtholders are expecting?
Debt is a claim on future labour. If there is no expectation of future labour, then the return must be high. If the expectation of labour is high, then its just a question of how big a "cut" the other gangsters want in what time frame. The only difference between an extortion racket or a loan shark operation is the degree of interest and the "quality" of "customer care"...
THE DEBT IS NOT GOING TO GET PAID BACK, NOR WAS IT EVER SUPPOSED TO GET PAID BACK.
The debt is, fundamentally, a subsidy to banks and other large moneyholders. Not to PAY IT BACK, but to PAY THE INTEREST on the loan, INDEFINITELY.
-------------------
There is no indefinitely. All money is debt. As debt cannot be paid back, an amount of debt must default periodicly. All parabolics fail and debt has gone parabolic. Thus a credit bubble bursts and deflates. If the government chooses to do the same to its balance sheet, the same result will befall the government.
No no no - Ron - lets be clear:
There is debt. That is a loan.
Then there are payments made to "clear the debt". IF there is interest on the debt, that also must get paid, and that usually gets paid "first". So, there are payments to the interest, and then there are payments to the principle. If you're totally screwed for cash, and you owe HUGE sums, you cut a deal with your debtors to pay them the interest only, and the principle as you increase your income.
If your debt is completely astronomical and only expressible in exponential notation, then one of a few things happens, either you devalue the currency and inflate your way out of debt, (trillion bucks? No problem - here's a stack of billion dollar bills...) or, you loan yourself money to buy bad debts and then commit to hitting the interest payments - i.e. - you "finesse" the debt. This allows the debt to be arbitrarily large - as long as you hit your interest payments, everybody's cool..
this is especially effective if there is no intention to pay thedebt back.
Eventually, granularity prevents reduction of interest rates (zero is....zero) and at that point, the gravy train shudders to a stop and people stop getting paid. But until then, you're good to go.
That's basically what all the money being dumped on the toxic debt was about, and why we're not in an instant hyperinflation. They basically took a trillion bucks and burned it. Money is only inflationary when it hits the economy. All this did was get the banks "back to zero" or at least a smaller negative number. None of that money ever hit the economy, so it technically "never properly existed", and still doesn't except in terms of a debt instrument, which is then expressed in terms of interest payments (think of it as a dividend paid today on the backs of future generations yet unborn).
As I've written elsewhere, the only REAL solution is pure out and out socialism - the complete nationalisation of the banking system, so the banks and lending institutions work to the benefit of the nation as a democratic whole, and not just a select group of feudalist families.
...huh?
So a government job is not really a job... and the solution to our current economic crisis, which was brought on by irresponsible tax cuts and deregulation is... tax cuts and deregulation...?
Are GOP voters as stupid as their leaders?
Could be, after all, these are the voters that thought the boy Bush was brilliant so they voted for him.
This guy is such a pinhead. I hope the GOP hangs onto him for a long, long time. Stupid Steele needs to lead the ditto heads Repubs right over the cliff.
Hey, Republicans... you have a great leader in Steele. He's a keeper.
/sarc off
RonJ wrote:
====================================
147 to around 35 over a several month period, is a collapse.
====================================
Only in a VERY short term relative sense.
----------------
The Great Depression was very short term in a relative sense. It was still a collapse. The Wiemar hyperinflation was very short term in a relative sense. It was still a collapse.
Saying the price of oil is still high, is a relative thing. Considering it was 40 dollars a barrel long ago, as you mentioned, 40 dollars can be considered cheap, in relation to what it eventually will be. If a Great Depression is unfolding, the price has not yet finished declining. The price could fall back to 12 dollars again.
what an argument. the whole point is that for the next 6 mo - 1 yr private business will not be hiring. and so for that term the government has alot of people at hand to get some much needed infrastructure work done. yes a temporary contract.
I was employed by my state for thirty years. All that time I thought I had a "job." Silly me.
Hi Ron-
Agreed- but the deficits only matter if you have any intention of paying them. IF you have no intention of paying the debt, then deficits don't matter. All that matters is the ability to service the debt. And that is controlled by interest rates. If the interest rates are low enough, then you could finance quadrillion or quintillion dollar debts, or simply go for the exponent number. Right now were at 9x10^12 (9 trillion). Add a couple of exponents and you have 9x10^14. As long as you meet the payments on the interest, it doesn't matter.
---------------------
The bond market will not allow interest rates to stay low. Thus, it does matter. Notice how the 10 year has jumped up in recent weeks?
The bond market is calling the FED's bluff to buy the long end of the yield curve.
Wiemar Germany tried that little game of not paying their deficits through printing money. They still wound up in a deflationary depression. Deficits did matter.
The Washington Post, in article written by Henri E. Cauvin, on February 7, 2009, reported that:
Mike Tyson was once married to Michael Steele's half-sister, pediatrician Monica Turner, M.D., who ultimately sued for divorce over claims he (Tyson) fathered a child by someone else.
Ultimately all of Tyson's future earnings and proceeds from the sale of his Connecticut mansion will go to pay a $9 million divorce settlement to Monica Turner. Turner also had a lien on Tyson's Las Vegas estate, at the time of these divorce proceedings, which is next to Wayne Newton's residence.
Yes, the Republicans are a bunch of criminals and thugs. It is time the Democratic Party stop appeasing these GOP thugs!!!!
As for Michael Steele? He is a crook too!
Mr Steele,s idea about what constutes a job is very interesting. I guess the thousands of people who are out of construction work due to the housing collapse didn't realy lose jobs. A job must only be work that can be outsourced Last time I checked there has never been a permanent construction job.
No no no - Ron - lets be clear:
There is debt. That is a loan.
Then there are payments made to "clear the debt". IF there is interest on the debt, that also must get paid, and that usually gets paid "first". So, there are payments to the interest, and then there are payments to the principle. If you're totally screwed for cash, and you owe HUGE sums, you cut a deal with your debtors to pay them the interest only, and the principle as you increase your income.
If your debt is completely astronomical and only expressible in exponential notation, then one of a few things happens, either you devalue the currency and inflate your way out of debt, (trillion bucks? No problem - here's a stack of billion dollar bills...) or, you loan yourself money to buy bad debts and then commit to hitting the interest payments - i.e. - you "finesse" the debt. This allows the debt to be arbitrarily large - as long as you hit your interest payments, everybody's cool..
--------------------
Inflation and deflation complete a cycle. Wiemar Germany tried inflating away the debt and wound up with deflation, as the currency collapsed.
People took out interest only home loans and the principle kept rising, putting them further in debt.
It is a problem to foster the idea of a trillion dollar debt, no problem, here is a stack of billions. The dollar is the world's reserve currency. There are consequences to playing such games.
The new math doesn't really work in the end.
I am a small, and I mean SMALL business owner. 80% of my business is in new construction, mainly schools, hospitals and universities. The way these jobs work for the most part, is general contractors competitively bid the job or in some cases a general is pre-chosen.
I and other subs then bid our portion of the job. I either get the job or I don't.
The point being that a lot of the jobs I work on are paid for by the government, either local, state or federal. But every contractor from the general down to the plumbers and electricians are private sector companies, myself included. WE employ people. WE pay taxes. Our employees pay taxes. The things we build (schools, hospitals etc) are a necessary part of our society. I forgot to mention design professionals such as architects and engineers are also necessary in this process. They are also employing people and paying taxes.
I was excited at first when I read in my local paper that Texas would be getting fed dollars for highway improvement and school projects. Keep me in business! Now it turns out the republicans are going to fuck up the most positive aspect of the whole thing for my business. When they say they are out to help small business, they are lying. What they are in fact going to accomplish, at least in my case is possibly putting me out of business. So their answer for "stimulus" is the exact opposite of what I and my employees need to prosper.
Wow, evidently the choice of Steele is just more of the same airheadedness... Honestly, the government creates work, not jobs? What do people do at the their jobs Mr. Steele, play all day? *sigh*
If anybody knows about job creation, it's the Republicans! Look how well they did these last 8 years! *crickets*
I'm sorry RNC, your Token is not valid.
George S. should have pointed out to this idoit that tax cuts for small businesses does NOTHING to bring paying customers in the door. Why would anyone with any sense expand a business when there is no demand for the goods or services they provide? They wouldn't - unless applying Republican logic. The reason there is no demand is because people are hanging on to their money because of uncertainty. How will a tax cut change that?
What the fuck is this idiot on about? Government jobs are "contracts"? Since when? I've known lots of people who worked at government jobs, and aside from the fact that their employer was the government, they were basically identical to "real" jobs. Meaning, they showed up every day to work, got paid for their hours, had healthcare and other benefits, and EXPECTED TO KEEP WORKING until they retired (unless they quit or were fired), just like any other job.
Christ is a sidecar (with a helmet and goggles)! What kind of moron confuses plain ol' jobs with "contracts"? What fucking planet do these people live on???
This moron makes imbeciles look smart. Is the new savor of the GOP? Lol.
NEVER lets facts or logic stand in the way of RNC talking points, no matter how absurd.
Oh, right! Like Haliburton and Blackwater.
That is so reassuring. All of you out there that have lost manufacturing jobs,don't worry, them jobs are coming back 'some day'. All of you that have lost jobs to outsourcing, good news, those jobs will be back 'soon' too. All of you retail folks recently laid off, you too will be rehired 'soon'. The head of the RNC says so....
If this guy actualy believes this shit, he needs to be put in a padded room....
we let engineers who lost manufacturing type jobs... get to work "temporarily" (following Mr. Steele's logic) fixing bridges...
then our bridges get repaired,
and the manufacturers don't lose their houses,
and the economy stabilizes...
then they get their "jobs" back.
even *IF* we concede Mr. Steele's asinine logic... whats uh... whats the damn problem?
the more I hear about this Steele character...the more I think the GOP couldn't have picked a better patsy to preside over the impending implosion of the RNC and the GOP...
Get your popcorn ready folks and set your DVR's this is gonna get interesting!
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