Zbigniew Brzezinski calls Joe Scarborough's Mideast views "stunningly superficial"
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Dec 30, 2008 3:00pm
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I've always had a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for Zbigniew Brzezinski. And after this epic smackdown of the eminently ignorant and simple-minded Joe Scarborough, I know that affection was well-placed.
Scarborough: "You cannot blame what's going on in Israel on the Bush administration."
Brzezinski: "You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it's almost embarrassing to listen to you."
Ouch. Make sure to watch the entire clip because the intellectual beat down continues to the very end.
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It was almost as good as watching Noam Chomsky schooling Charlie Rose
for spouting the manufactured opinion that is most Americans believe is fact about our role in the mideast multi decade bloodbath.
Liberal Globalist Mainstream Conventional Wisdom Democrats think we are doing a good job in the Mideast, but Progressives know better.
About time SOMEBODY on these mediatainment shows actually speaks some truth.
I watched this earlier. I was surprised the interview went on.
Shame it wasn't O'Reilly. That would've ended in the first 30 seconds.
"And stop touching my daughter's leg under the table."
I've always had a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for Zbigniew Brzezinski.
Wow. This is the guy that goaded Russia into invading Afghanistan and was a co founder of the Trilateral Commission.
A quote...
"The most immediate task is to make certain that no state or combination of states gains the capacity to expel the United States from Eurasia...."
"In brief, for the United States, Eurasian geostrategy involves the purposeful management of geostrategically dynamic states and the careful handling of geopolitically catalytic states, in keeping with the twin interests of America in the short-term: preservation of its unique global power and in the long-run transformation of it into increasingly institutionalized global cooperation."
Respect?
Respect for Brzezinski's Knowledge .. to be sure .. but ..
Read this:
Zbigniew Brzezinski: How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen
Brzezinski wasn't exactly prescient in his prediction that nothing will come of "stirring up" a few Muslims, was he?
If Brzezinski actually believes this line he's spewing now, why was he silent when Arafat got screwed over during the negotiations? Did he lack the spine to speak out because he wanted to protect his position? Was he concerned about getting future jobs in other administrations and TV show appearances?
Israeli terrorism is going to come to an end, sooner or later. The question is, will it be voluntary or because of a nuclear weapon detonating in Tel Aviv? The islamic part of the world will not let them get away with genocide and ethnic cleansing.
It's particularly galling to see how much a bunch of ingrates Israelis are when it was muslims who protected the jews for 1500 years, during a time when christians had declared open season on jews.
I believe it's just a matter of time before this knucklehead is shown the door.
I'm a witness.
know a good composer who might put Brezinski's words to music. They speak to the depths of my soul and need only a melody to make them perfect.
You realize he is condemning Israeli actions right now, don't you?
(Just sayin', after yesterday's thread.)
haha :D
Read my posts. I spoke against one-sided condemnation. As Brezinski has repeatedly done. There is no moral high ground to be found in this clusterfuck.
I did. All of them. He says that after the election of Ariel Sharon (sp?), and then Bush, the peace process was completely abandoned, in favour or force.
The Palestinians, caged in, starving, no energy, no medicine, no one listening, then resorted to violence in an effort of self-preservation, against a powerful and un-restricted aggressor, and captor, while America watched, and watches now.
Which part needs further explanation?
I might see your point better if they hadn't been caged in, but they have been. They have nowhere to go. They have lived at the mercy of the Israelis, seemingly endlessly, as no one has said "boo". The silence has been defeaning, and the entire free-world is to blame. We were all busy shopping????
Especially their fellow Muslims in the adjoining states who feed them just enough food and medicine to keep them barely alive but offer no sanctuary. They're willing to supply more weapons to keep their fight alive by proxi always willing to sacrifice more Palestinians to their war against Israel. What country is willing to take them in. Yours? Mine? Certainly none of the Middle East States. Out of despair the Palestinians elect Hamas in the faint hope of exacting some measure of blood revenge but Hamas will never be able to do more than kill a few innocent civilians despite their earnest hope of killing every single Israeli. Their won't be any coalition of Arab states willing to back the Palestinians against a nuclear powered Israel. So this crap will continue because it suits too many people on all sides: the Israeli right wing, Hamas, Hezbollah. the surrounding Arab states, Iran.. you name it. Pretending that only Israel holds the key to unlocking a solution to this mess shows a very limited understanding of the situation. Suggesting that Israel has some moral obligation to allow their citizenry to be attacked (however feeble the attack) without responding is foolish. No nation on earth could be expected to comply. Even the U.N. does not. Despite the foolish claims made here that hundreds of innocent Palestinians have been killed it is becoming increasingly apparent the the actual ratio of civilians killed to the number of Hamas soldiers and officials killed is astoundingly low. The US and it's coalition allies in Iraq could only wish they could boast similar numbers. That is why I have such contempt for people who bandy about the term genocide. If the Gazans are undergoing genocide it is the work of a lot of people besides the Israelis.
the double post but the first one came back "timed out". I guess I owe you some bandwidth C&L.
{No problem Peter. SiteMonitor}
Yes, all of these problems exist. They're still shooting fish in a barrel.
You condemn the Palestinians' neighbors for what, not taking them in as refugees?
Sharon once said, "The Palestinians have homeland - Jordan." Ethnic cleansing and/or genocide to create a pure jewish land is and always has been the goal, to, as ben Gurion said, "drive them out". The Israelis - and you - are no better than KKK members who advocated sending blacks back to Africa.
Do you know how many Palestinians actually reside in Israel. Many have been subject to mistreatment on the mere suspicion of terrorist sympathies but they haven't been driven out. Guess what? They even get to vote. For every quote from a right wing Israeli politician I can find a juicier one from the Hamas/Hezbollah brigade. Read the second last line of my post again if you want to know what I think of people like you.
Not only is he stunningly superficial, he doesn't seem to take criticism well either.
While Brzezinski may have had some unsavory connections over the course of his career, the fact is that he bitch slapped Joe Scarborough this morning on national TV. I'll take a point when I can get one. In fact, I would enjoy seeing more of this. How about we begin with that clown Chris Matthews? How he is still on the air simply mystifies me.
Someone beat me to it, but just because Brzezinski handles an idiot like Scarborough doesn't make him a hero. He is a strong proponent of expanded US military power and worked actively to promote a foreign policy many progressive liberals should find abhorrent.
Also, notice that he characterizes the US role in the issue as "passive." Since when has funding and arming one side of a conflict been considered passive? If anything we are actively supporting and enabling the Israeli occupation and characterizations such as Brzezinski's only serve to obscure the truth that we are heavily invested politically, economically and military in the this conflict, and almost exclusively on the side of Israel.
...to get the scoop and great responses to it.
Yeah, we can certainly argue about ZB's agenda, but there is still the fact that he has a much much more sophisticated understanding of what goes on than, oh, "when a Democrat was in office it was like this". Joe S. always takes the easy R vs. D train of conversation when outmatched and ZB wasn't going to suffer through it.
the more knowledgable people smack down this black and white type of banter, the better.
Also, I don't this ZB was saying "passive" was the right word choice in any of the scenarios they were discussing whether arming one side or negotiating at the peace table. At least, that's what I think I heard.
I re-watched and you're right that Brzezinski never used the word passive, he said that the US needed to be active in the peace process instead of just observing. I think the point is largely the same in that he is implying that we are not taking an active role in the situation when we most certainly are. We have been active in undermining peace negotiations for decades.
I can appreciate Brzezinski bringing in some context and insight to a normally vapid show, especially countering a moronic falsehood like the Arafat was offered 95% and walked away line, but given Brzezinski's history and actual policy stances I don't think people should look to him as a "sensible" voice toward foreign policy.
FWIW, if you're circling back here...it's hard not to look to those like Zig as a "sensible" voice given Joe Scar on the one hand, and John Bolton on another! Yikes. The scary aggressive ignorance drives us in a panic to folks like Zig. Perhaps his hidden agenda in this particular case is to drive Joe off his show and leave Mika to pick up the pieces and create her own show!
BURN!
When he promised to "look into" the complex problem of Middle East turmoil, he was lying. He won't read a damn thing.
Guys like Joe aren't paid to know what they're talking about, they're paid to spew right-wing talking points. Brzezinski just didn't feel like putting up with that crap from a stupid putz like Scarborough.
That Scarborough took his pwning gracefully too.
and hasn't been able to yet. He didn't want to insult daddy in front of her.
Gaza aid boat 'rammed by Israel'
More at link.
MountainMan23
Excellent link which begs the question as to why C&L has not posted this story regarding how Israel rammed this boat which was on a mission of mercy to deliver three tons of food, water and supplies to the citizens of Gaza.
with a former 2x Congresswoman onboard, as well as Presidential candidate.
she remembers the USS Liberty.
see: CNN report-interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZeNdIGI8os
to see what would happen if they tried to run a security checkpoint in Iraq with humanitarian supplies. I suspect they'd have more than just hurt feelings.
Then accept the Taliban's attitude toward schoolgirls.
You want war?
Then accept whatever the MIC wants to do.
There is something for everyone.
It *is* embarrassing to hear him offer his stupid, unthinking "analysis"--- but it's even more embarrassing to hear his childish complaining when he's called on it.
SilentPatriot,
how easily you are fooled by this evil man. How easy indeed.
as always.
people who should know better, don't bother to read what this Machiavellian monster has written and what he has said, not to mention what he has done.
It's as if someone hadn't bothered to read Mein Kampf... and then made similar comments.
pathetic. and sad.
you believe JFK was killed by a complex conspiracy. Etc.
as do most people...
the assassination was easy. the coverup...now theres the complexity.
The CIA/OSS veterans had lots of experience in overthrowing governments & assassination, although the gunmen were likely hired outside.
and E Howard Hunt made a death-bed confession - and the media was silent.
that's how easy it is to maintain a coverup.
the mob had to stop Bobby. The CIA hated JFK for all that he did and for what he was going to do. The two groups were working together and it was often to draw a strict boundary between them. If you believe in the Magic Bullet you are the one who needs to justify his beliefs.
I think it's less to do with ignorance, and more to do with comparing the two approaches. Brzezinski and the other "old guard" was Machiavellian, yes. The new crop of policy makers is completely divorced from reality. They're mindless, slogan-driven ideologues.
Nice to see I'm not the only one who is a little dismayed at all the love for Ziggy. I mean its nice to see Joey get a smack-down (it would be nicer to see him seriously interogated about that dead intern) but that doesn't obscure the fact that Ziggy is one of the leading Neocons.
I don't think Ziggy was originally a neocon. He was definitely a cold-warrior hawk in Carter's days and is Machiavellian and is schooled in realpolitik. He has spent a lot of time over the last few years criticising the Bush administration, especially the Iraq War. He's one of Obama's leading foreign advisers, so calling him a neocon seems too simplistic.
Ziggy gets all out of shape when you discuss Russia and or China. The Middle East Conflict is " Old Hat ". Bin there done that, lets move on. " Putin is my main man. All others all Lightweights.
what is wrong about what he said on this issue?
What he says here is, however, useful and poignant.
of why I won't have teevee.
Someone said that the little blonde gigglepuss is Brzynski's daughter?!
He must be sooo feckin' proud.
Give me a teevee show!
I can chirp outta my ass and be wrong all the time too!
Lebanon was breathtaking in how the press was manipulated against Israel.Usually I have dry heaves watching Fox News,but they were the only network who saw through the propoganda.Hamas is hoping for a repeat of that successful formula.I suppose Israel is supposed to absorb the bombing just as they did the scuds during DS
FOX News was the only network who saw through the propaganda...?Hahahaha Do you see what you just said? Hahahahahahaha
Lets suppose Israel is good and getting better at genocide.
Talking in a condescending tone to the expert you invited on your show IN FRONT of his daughter is asking for trouble. Just sayin'
I watched this live. It was a beautiful moment. Suddenly Joe had nothing to say for more than one minute. I loved how his sidekick couldn't stop laughing!!
Great TV.
...is a member of the CFR and the Bilderburg group; he supported and tutored Osama bin Laden when he was fighting the Russkies in Afghanistan; and, he is generally an American Imperialist and a war monger. They all LIE.
Along the way he's done a couple of useful things but, by and large, he's part of the problem, not part of the solution. Though putting down Scar may not be good for his daughter's career on MSNBC.
Brzezinski:
"You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it's almost embarrassing to listen to you."
That quote has to be remembered and passed along every time somebody uses Scarborough clip. OR refers to Scarborough.
We're angry.
I think X. You think Y.
Therefore, you are an asshole. So there.
Truth is, we need to direct our anger.
In the right way.
Toward the true enemy.
then who is the true enemy?
anyone who seeks to maintain the now-defunct power structure.
Just asking.
Anyone that doesn't agree with ME.
(tee he he, just funnin' ya.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
Who'd have thunk it??
As one who is not a fan of either Scarborough or his side-kick (Micka), Zbig's put down -- while well delivered and condescendingly nasty -- really didn't address the point that Scarborough was making. Notice that "stunningly superficial" does not say that Scarborough's facts were wrong. Rather, it's a snotty and patronizing way of saying that Scarborough's opinion doesn't count because "you" don't know as much as me.
Good theatre, bad substance.
n/t.
It seems you do not know the point Scarborough was making nor the facts that contradict him. Scarborough was of the opinion that it is and always has been the Palestinians that killed the Camp David accords. He goes on further to say that his opinion, contrary to what Dr Brzezinski had to say was informed by the New York Times and Washington Post etc. etc. If he in fact had read the New York Times from that time period he would known that Dr Brzezinski was spot on. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?re...
The smackdown was richly deserved.
It would be an huge task to educate Joe.
Joe has his head up his ass and he likes the smell so he's going to keep it there.
He should have turned to Mika and said "Mika, you have such stunningly superficial knowledge that it's almost embarrassing to call you my daughter."
So what? Sure it's fun watching Scarborough get eaten alive on national television; he deserved it. But the fact that the guy doing the eating is presently uploading his evil world view into the minds of incoming administration officials should give all Americans pause. Brzezinski is an evil f*ck and his outdated and warped views of the world should be avoided at all costs.
excellent and very vivid description.
unfortunately for us, his views are being implemented by both the democrats and the republicans. This man was Straussian before Strauss became the latest fad.
...I think I just saw Obama's #1 advisor defend the Bush admin.
.....WTF?%^@*&!
are very much mistaken. Watch it again.
....slink....
necessary. We all make mistakes. I have made some truly spectacular ones to my own discredit.
Me too. We all do. Live and learn.
I made one once... ur... twice. But they were really really BIG.
Scarborough is an asshole with an ego bigger than Manhattan.
Thank you Brzezinski for calling Joe Scarborough a liar. It's about time all these wingnut bleeping heads got schooled in the truth instead of being allowed to parrot GOP talking points of lies, BS, misinformation, blaming Clinton, and spin.
With Obama as president we should be seeing much more of this!
The MSM is stunningly superficial, and it helps any time we are reminded of that fact. I liked it! Thanks MSNBC! Let's see more of this 'truth to pundits'! I'll be waiting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93AdDV2lZco
No matter what you think about Brzezinski just that fact that he said this on national TV to The Scar and put him in his place was wonderful.
somebody finally reached across the table and smacked the crap out of Scarborough....
God bless Zbigniew Brzezinski!! I guess it takes an old bird with nothing to lose to spit the truth out on bully-joe's show. Good for him.
baloney joe looked like such a flustered idiot, and well he should have been. It's tough being told you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on national tv.
Hurray for truth!! joe is a dispicable, pompous sack of smelly horse shit. It won't take too many more guests like Zbigniew Brzezinski to knock him off his pedistal.
I can't help it.
Is this reality TV or what???
So, Mika's Daddy comes on the show. The guy that STARTED the Mujahadeen, trained Osama Bin Laden, and is a member of the CFR. He proceeds to smack down Joe Scarborough, who's aide, Lori Klausutis miraculously died and hit her head on a desk in his office, with statements we all knew for ages. RESPECT?????
Is this for real? Someone pinch me so I can awake from this horrible nightmare.
Started the Mujahadeen?
This I have too see.
slam dunk
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/68772733_a9...
It's either Afghan, or Pakistani.
Need more proof. No slam dunk. rim shot.
Not directed to me but you might want to begin your research here. The rest is up to you. I gotta get ready for New Years Eve.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A...
This I will read.
Does this mean that Carter beat the Soviets?
I always wondered what ZB did when he was in the Carter admin.
I never thought he did much good.
Just so you know.
Yes, Carter beat the Soviets, and after his second term, he went on to discover the cure for cancer.
Seriously, with advisors like Brz, Carter didn't need enemies. Obama should be on guard for sharks likes Brz and his ilk. I'm so dismayed that Brz is a sudden hero to liberals because he smacked down Scarface. Makes me want to puke.
Just so you know.:)
and so was my reference to puking. After living through eight years of Bush, I'm all puked-out. All I got left to give are dry heaves.
I'm still stunned by all these glowing references to Brz from progessives just because he happened to smack down the Scar.
My own knowledge is most likely stunningly superficial but I do admit to limits on critical thinking. And will back down and admit I can't continue the arguement.
Anyone w. an ounce of grace and class would have shut the f up. Joe could not let it go and spent the morning licking his wounded ego. We only have to go to youtube and watch how he deals w. David Shuster smackdowns- Joe is petulant, he is the Bill O'Reilly of MSNBC all fluster and loudness. Mika should just take Joe on her lap and breastfeed him- he is clearly colicky and whiny.
he would love that but then Mika might end up dead in his office
I respect him for standing up to that idiot today, but I can't respect him for his amazing blunder in Afghanistan in the 80's.
Let's tell a bunch of religious nuts that god wants them to take over their country and give them a bunch of money and weapons. They'll never destroy the country, make it a safehaven for other religious nuts and use those weapons against us!
Edit: Oops, this was in reply to mountainman23
I hope Bush is enjoying his vacation. He's worked so hard at spinning his legacy; jumping ship; checking out; avoiding any decision making, and the media, for some time now.
... she has to put up with Scar and the other blowhole fucktards she works with. And she comes the closest, of any of them, to being an honest journalist.
So her daddy had a chance for a little pay-back today. Scar always needs a few whacks on the snout with a rolled-up newspaper. I was so glad to see it -- with Mika sitting there snickering. You go, daddy B. Heh.
Kabuki theater.
Just for public consumption.
... but I still enjoyed it.
The public learned more from Howdy Doody than it will ever learn from the likes of Joe Scarborough.
But "great respect and admiration" for that war criminal is about as an amazing a statement that I have ever heard here at C&L.
WTF is there to respect about him? Much less "admire"?
agreed
Seeing Joe turn red, knowing he was called out, made my day.
OK, we can NOW add this into the 2008 Top Ten Smackdown Countdown!
If you need a jackass in your life?
Lisen to Joe Scaroborough, whoever that is.
TIGER-UPPERCUT!
I'm so dismayed. While we're all distracted by the smack-down delivered today, we forget that Brzezinski has Obama's ear.
It will always be the same with Brzezinski. If you look at Brzezinski as a man who wants America to rule the planet, and will use any method available, even if it costs millions of people their lives, all his policies start to make sense. He is one of the most radical imperialists alive today, who prefers to work by deception instead of obvious imperial wars of conquest, like the neocons. He's a snake.
If this is going to be Obama-land, I want a refund.
Do you think ZB had anything to do with this?
then this pic is worth just about that...1,000 words. Alot of good it did for Sadat. It got him a bullet. And eventually Carter got shown the door.
Peace with Isreal was a no-brainer for Egypt. Isreal already had enough Arab enemies willing to continue the fight closer to home. Why pile on when one can save the Egyptian treasury?
We were all fooled by this photo-op at the time. Finally, peace in the Middle East! Have you seen headlines from Gaza today?
Back to your original question..."Do you think ZB had anything to do with this?" Yes. Did it actually accomplish anything? No.
Egypt and Israel have been at peace ever since,No?
I give credit to Sadat for the peace there.
Yes, I've been following the news about Gaza.
I was living in Egypt at the time of his assassination. The seeds of his assassination was sewn before he even became president. Nasser took great pains to destroy the (Egyptian) Muslim Brotherhood. When he was assassinated and Sadat took office he sought to distract them by sending them to Afghanistan (without making any real plans for how to handle them when they got back home. I suspect he wanted most of them to die over there). While in Afghanistan many of them became more hardline and since Sadat continued prior (and current btw) policy of not allowing Egyptians to meaningfully participate in the political process, the extremist religious elements became more influential. Eventually the Brothers infiltrated the military and assassinated him during the annual parade. This issue has yet to be resolved in Egyptian politics. The Brothers are still influential and still banned.
He was an anti-soviet hardliner, back when that was the stance that broke the soviet union.
He lured the soviets into Afghanistan to get them entangled in a war that would weaken them. So if he's advising Obama on Afghanistan, praise be, because he knows more about that country than anyone else.
He helped broker the Camp David accords during the Carter era.
So overall, he's a hard-ass when that's a good thing, and stands up for human rights. And he
thinksknows Bush is an idiot.So I've liked Brzezinski for a long time. Moderate, he calls 'em as he sees 'em -- like calling out Joe Scarborough today, for being a dip-shit.
and we'll all live happily ever after.
The world according to Brzezinski:
http://www.rense.com/general80/bz.htm
N/T
"When you're going to judge your knowledge by the collective standards of 300 million people, then don't be surprised that you're embarrassed."
...I was *lmao*.
Okay, but once again for those in the cheap seats Bz is dangerous... an imperialist... etc.
Respect?!
For the man largely responsible for creating the Taliban through Operation Cyclone? The man whose 1998 book "The Grand Chessboard" reads almost exactly like a Project for the New American Century document?! Who, in that book, called for the invasion of Iraq, Iran, and Syria, in that order, and said that we'd probably need a pearl harbor type event to get the public to support it? The guy who's commonly referred to as the Democratic Party's equivalent of Henry Kissinger?
People are gonna have to get over this Obama honeymoon and wise up on Brzezinski.
SilentPatriot and Scarborough clearly seem to have something in common...can you guess what that is?
The Notorious Z.B.I.G.
I love how at about 1:17 Mika looks up at the camera as if to say to her producers, " Oh shit, he's going to embarass us all again".
Remember the classic movie " Used Cars " with Kirk Russel? Base a movie with Ziggy and Kissinger as used arms dealers. Loud sports coats and cigars.
"I've always had a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for Zbigniew Brzezinski. And after this epic smackdown of the eminently ignorant and simple-minded Joe Scarborough, I know that affection was well-placed."
- SilentPatriot
Proof that the Democratic party and "progressive" movement has as many authoritarian followers gobbling up the propaganda coming from the manipulative money and power brokers as the Republicans.
SilentPatriot, deliberately or not, seems to be the one to always present the clandestine propaganda here at C&L, subtly putting ideas out there in the "progressive" movement. This time, it's the idea that Zbigniew Brzezinski is a great guy, and someone we should listen to.
That doesn't take away anything from the fact that seeing Scarborough put in his place by a superior intellect was great, as long as one keeps in mind that both Zbigniew and Joe have authoritarian mindsets, -which of course makes their universe revolve around episodes like this. Who is the top dog in any situation, and who can smack down who, is what makes up the frames of their world view, and Scarboroughs pathetic way to deal with it is a sign of that.
Regarding the term "progressive": What happened to the term liberal? I guess it's new times, eh? "Progressive" sounds more compatible with a kind of totalitarianism and machine-like view of the individual and society. Liberalism is the opposite of group mentality, so that had to go, right? Check out how Labor party in the UK (yes, that of Tony Blair and co.) has been taken over by authoritarians and are now underway of creating a total surveillance and database society.
It's not just the Republicans. The power brokers of our international society would be fools if they didn't position themselves according to the times and get a foothold inside any party and movements that will hold power.
There is a struggle coming for the soul of the progressive movement.
That being said:
Happy New Year! May people finally start thinking for themselves in 2009!
(Post edited to add some stuff and correct other things.)
This is by Robert Fisk, who knows a thing or two about the region.
We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more - providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs - who, as we all know, only understand force.
Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis - just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" - as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course.
The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel - rightly - but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" - as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv.
Read the rest of it.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/29-9
It could have been KKKarl Rove... or David Axelrod...
but to witness the act of Joe The Scar having his head handed to him on his own show... PRICELESS. "Stunningley superficial..." at least the Big Zig knows how to pick his words.
Thanks, C&L for showing this. I was flipping channels and caught the follow-up after Joe's commercial break, and Joe was STILL SMARTING over the RIP... and still acting like a complete asshole and un-gracious host.
Scarborough here simply repeats the mainstream line about "the state of Israel only reacts to aggression of the irrational Arabs surrounding it; Israel never attacks anyone; Israel is not oppressing anyone; Israel is not violating international law; Israel is not committing war crimes; Israel is not committing crimes against humanity."
And how does Joe know all this? As he CORRECTLY says, he read it in the New York Times and the rest of the US main stream media. In other words, Joe is repeating the US main stream "line".
Which makes me think of Chalmers Johnson's observation that reading and watching the US media now is very much like reading and watching the Soviet media in the 1978. As Soviet citizens told him then, "no one reads Pravda to get the news; one reads Pravda to get 'the line'." As Chalmers Johnson goes on to say, "I no longer read the New York Times for the news; I read it to get the line." The 1978 Soviet media had the same kind of "happy news" as the US "news" has now.
[Go watch and listen to Johnson himself here (minutes 29-33) in "DECLINE of EMPIRES: The Signs of Decay" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2CCs-x9q9U ]
So here we have the spectacle of a know-nothing MSNBC propagandist Joe Scarborough using the establishment propaganda "line" to "challenge" DOCTOR Brzezinski's literal recitation of RECORDED HISTORY.
Just watching this short and mercifully edited MSNBC clip, I notice how the US TEEVEE "debate" is reduced to "he said/he said/she said" contest of "opinion" cut free of any verifiable fact so that a propagandist like Joe can be presented by MSNBC as "equal" to a scholar like Brzezinski. That is the message of the media. And whenever the perceived difference between received opinion and recorded history gets too heated, then the female "co-anchor" is there to literally giggle and laugh off reality-- literally.
This is not adult discussion-- this is news and recent human history reduced to an entertainment to be passively consumed by passive imperial subjects-- i.e. US citizens.
And the antidote IS NOT to watch the Rachel Maddow Show. PLEASE.
A possible antidote might be to STOP WATCHING US television-- maybe even stop blogging about US television-- surely we've got the point now that US TEEVEE is primarily a propaganda vehicle-- maybe a real antidote might be to get active in street democracy, in grassroots organizing, etc.
Just saying.
Have a nice day, everyone.
You remember that Israel removed their settlers from Gaza by force to turn it over to the Palestinians. I agreed with this. Gaza belongs to the Palestinians. Left standing were homes, roads and greenhouses used by the settlers to grow fruits and vegetables, enough to export. The Palestinians destroyed the greenhouses. "They" said they would not live in "Jewish houses" so the houses were also destroyed, to be replaced by "Arab houses." (I have no idea if these houses were built) Why? Because the Palestinian powers that be do not want their own people to succeed?? I had always tried to be fair between the 2 sides; after that I was disgusted with the Gazans. According to a source I consider reliable, over 10,000 mortars and rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza since 2001. Other than the destruction of Israel, what else do the Gazans want.
Go ahead and give the actual source you "consider reliable" so your readers can judge for themselves. This is the Internet, after all. You can link to resources. Just click on the little chain graphic and fill in the pop-up box. Or you can just copy and paste an entire URL web address in this text area box and the program will automatically turn the URL into a web link.
For example, for some graphic background on how the state of Israel has been bombing and killing Palestinian civilians for years, watch this BBC Channel 4 program here or ...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...
...where you'll see an Israeli "targeted assassination" missile attack on a Hamas leader's car in Gaza in which the Israeli "Defense" Forces helicopters return minutes later to fire additional missiles at the crowd of civilians around the demolished car.
Don't believe me. Click on the link and see for yourself.
Just saying. Have a nice day, everyone!
Proof once again Scar-Face only reads the lies and bullshit from the Reslugs playbook and was once again made to look like the total ignorant idiot he is everytime he opens his mouth. Hilarious!!
Joe claims to be knowledgeable and well read. Yet when confronted by someone who does know, rather than play the skeptic he plays the wise ass to cover his ignorance. And the people of Florida hired him to represent them in Congress. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with Bull_hit.
But what would you expect from the citizens of the redneck riviera? If Joe Scarborough is the best and brightest they had to send to Washington, it says a lot about the voters in the Florida panhandle.
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