Deregulation Sank the Titanic!
By nonny mouse Saturday Oct 11, 2008 5:00am
On April 14th, 1912, the largest, most technological advanced passenger steamship in the world, hit an iceberg. Two hours and forty minutes later, the Titanic sank, with the loss of 1,517 lives. Only 705 people survived.
Nearly a century later, the sinking of the Titanic has turned into a cottage industry where, as Harvard historian Steven Biel joked, only ‘Jesus and the Civil War have been written about more.’ Nearly 200 books have been written on the disaster, with countless documentaries, movies, historical and scientific studies analyzing what caused the Titanic to sink. Was it the fault of the captain, running the ship too hard to make a deadline to New York? Was it the fault of the engineers, some defect in the ship’s design? Was the fault of the Marconi wireless officers too busy tapping out passenger’s messages they failed to heed iceberg warning from other ships? Was it the wrath of God angry because the White Star Line didn’t christen their ships? Was it incompetence and the lack of enough lifeboats? Was it just plain bad luck? What they all didn’t know was that a confidential investigation launched by the ship’s builders shortly after the disaster had all too quickly – and all too easily – determined exactly what sank the Titanic.
It was the lack of regulation.
J. P. Morgan (the actual man, not the company, or the company too, but owned by the living person, then called the International Mercantile Marine Co., the company, not the... oh nevermind...) bought controlling interest in the British and American shipping companies building the Titanic. The US government further provided him with substantial tax cuts and subsidies. The only private company to resist Morgan’s takeover, Cunard Shipping, was promptly subsidized by the British government. J. P. Morgan was given the financial backing and the freedom to do whatever he wanted, unhindered by any oversight or liability.
Because the shipbuilding industry was un(de)regulated, the shipbuilders were pressured to make changes in the Titanic's construction against the strenuous objections of the design engineers – using plate a quarter of an inch thinner and rivets an eighth thinner in order to shave 2500 tons off her weight, not just to cut costs but so the ship would sail faster than the competition. Two other ships, the Republic and the Florida, collided off Massachusetts while the Titanic was being built, and even though they were damaged far more badly than would be the Titanic, the Florida made it back to New York and the Republic didn't sink for 38 hours, with all 750 passengers saved. The Titanic barely nicked an iceberg, not even with enough force to tear a gash in the hull as was first thought, but just hard enough to pop out the rivets and buckle the steel plate hull, allowing water to flood into five compartments. With a flimsy hull and skimpy rivets, however, the rest of the hull couldn’t endure the strain of the water. She broke up into 3 pieces, (not two as first thought) before she completely sank, and went down faster and at a steeper angle than even Cameron depicted in his movie.
The investigation proved conclusively it was negligence (and greed) on the part of the ship owners unhindered by any industry regulation. But the investigation was quickly buried and never made public, two formal governmental inquiries pinned the official blame on the (conveniently dead) captain of the Titanic, because the lawsuits from so many victims would have bankrupted the ship's owners, including J. P. Morgan. (Whose bank, ironically enough, just 'rescued' my bank, WaMu.)
'If J. P. Morgan wanted a boat made out of papier-mâché, they would have made him a boat out of papier-mâché,' said Brad Matsen, who's just published his findings on this long buried investigation in a new book, Titanic’s Last Secrets.
But beyond all question, was the lack of regulation of shipbuilding at the time that was responsible for sinking the Titanic.
Ninety-seven years later, industrialists and big business have once again built another ‘unsinkable’ Titanic, a deceptively impressive colossus made out of papier-mâché, sinking rapidly due to deregulation, and is allowing the government to pin the blame on the third-class passengers. Except this time, it’s the Ship of State. And somehow, I’m starting to worry about those lifeboats…
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Don't they believe that the sinking of the Titanic was cause by Obama's palling around with terrorists?
Seriously! This will be the next arguement made by the republican party. Even Sarah Palin has a new bag depicting her viewpoint on this!
Check out her new "OBAMA was FRIENDS with ICEBERGS bag at - http://www.cafepress.com/yourthought.316401045
"Politics is the shadow cast on society by big business," concluded America's leading 20th century social philosopher John Dewey, and will remain so as long as power resides in "business for private profit through private control of banking, land, industry, reinforced by command of the press, press agents and other means of publicity and propaganda".
The United States effectively has a one-party system, the business party, with two factions, Republicans and Democrats. There are differences between them. In his study Unequal Democracy: The Political Economy of the New Gilded Age, Larry Bartels shows that during the past six decades "real incomes of middle-class families have grown twice as fast under Democrats as they have under Republicans, while the real incomes of working-poor families have grown six times as fast under Democrats as they have under Republicans".
chomsky snippet on economic collapse
if you're going to use chomsky, have the decency to cite him. your comment was unoriginal and you should fucking acknowledge it.
He did.
If you're going to make a response, at least read the whole post first.
Unregulated capitalism will naturally evolve to monopoly and then oligarchy.
then facism...
Actually, that has never been proven and is pure conjecture on your part. Collectivist schemes of economics lead to fascism, such as communism and socialism. And, there has NEVER been a monopoly on a commodity without the help of the government.
If something is so rare that one person can acquire all the ownership of it, then it is too scarce to be needed by everyone.
Also, this article's argument is flawed. For one, it assumes that there was no other cause but unregulation. Second, it assumes that regulation would have caught it. Regulation does not automatically make everything safe. See Fen-Phen as an excellent example.
And non-regulation has never saved anyone.
Fascism is one end of the spectrum, socialism/communism the other. The two have nothing to do with each other. Fascists generally want to kill communists. What do they teach you in school over there. Simple "commie" hatred?
The Hunt Brothers almost cornered the market on silver...hardly a rare or scarce commodity! Hmmm... leveraging, margin calls, and banks helping each other avert a credit freeze. Sounds familiar!
wikipedia
Yes, we saw that happen already, in the last 8 years.
The study of history could almost be reduced to a never ending struggle between sociopaths and those who would contain them.
In his statement, All history is the history of class warfare. That's all I need to know.
(“The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles”.)
So right on so many levels. A few years ago, the banks in Canada attempted the same thing and were denied. They even tried to merge and again the government denied them. Right now, our economy is actually regulated enough to not be melted down the same as the US is experiencing because of the regulations.
Off topic note. Sorry to my fellow posters for my ranting yesterday. Some clown smoked my vehicle in my work parking lot, and nobody came forward. My insurance has to cover it and the damage exceeds 4000 dollars. Hence my anger. I apologize if I pissed anyone off.
Either way, that sucks. Sorry to hear about that kind of thing, especially in today's economic climate. At least you have insurance. Best of luck.
They rammed the front end. Or backed into it really fast. Not sure. Either way I get screwed. Insurance will cover it, but my rates will go up. And I wasn't even there. No witnesses at all. Sigh. Thanks for your understanding though. As a supervisor, I thought my company would pay for it considering it happened there. Apparently not.
It's time for somebody to stick a fork in John McCain - he's done.
What a great post!
Thank you!
Once John McCain's "personal complicity" in the deregulation of the financial markets is made public, along with his alliance with Phil Gramm, King of Deregulation, the SS McCain will hit the bottom of the ocean where it belongs.
Americans need a primer beginning with the GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY ACT and John McCain's support of it as the "genesis of this entire economic mess".
It wasn't long ago that we had clips of John McCain boasting, along with his chief pimp, Mike Huckabee, spouting "I'm Mr. Deregulator". This will be haunting him for the next two weeks as people unravel this mess and find John McCain, Phil Gramm, Rick Davis, and Charlie Black at the bottom of this necrotic heap.
Speaking of Fuckabee, I was having my coffee this morning and I turned the TV on to the Faux news, just for a laugh. There was Mikey with Neil talking about the economy.
I could hardly believe my ears - Fuckabee was spouting his new theory that the proble with the crashin stock market is likely caused by - wait for it - "Economic Terrorists!" Yes! Dastardly terrorists, muslims, no doubt, who are skulking in just for the last bell on the market and selling stuff to cause havoc when there's not enough time for the market to react before closing.
So, I guess this is the Repugs new tack - it's not them who've deregulated and raped the system - it's the TERRORISTS! Bob, help us.
John or somebody at C&L, maybe you could find that clip and post it - it's truly laugh-out-loud funny - tho' scary, too.
as much as i hate to admit it, he has a point... this whole "naked short selling" is an illegal practice used to terrorize companies, thus loosing value... the s.e.c is powerless or neutered... they placed a ban on naked short selling, but the last i heard, they can use this "economic terrorism" again now... the evil dooers in this case are these wall street insiders, weather they are ceo´s or the bernenke and paulson, or hedge fund whores... the terror label kind of works here because there is an election and this economic crash at the same time... many people are in terror over living on the street...
Shut up.....Fuckabee wasn't talking about traders short-selling.
He was implying that there are nefarious people - muslim terrorists - who are responsible for this financial meltdown, and once again, as only neo-con repugs can do, was trying to scare people. He's trying to do the set-up for Cheney/Bush - as they will soon say the same thing and use it as an excuse to implement their PD#51.
What if certain key peoples and orgs in the financial world, WANT Obama to win the election and assume office, and they are desperately afraid that Bushco will refuse to leave office after losing on nov 4th for fear of future indictments and trials.
Would it make sense to cripple the US economy and the Administrations power and thus the facade of Bushco, remove their last shred of competence and force them out of office in shame !
just an idea.
Economic meltdown was widely predicted by a lot of clever people in the financial world, but the timing and its usefulness could have been manipulated to clear the brush.
Better now under Bushco than later under the Democrats.
As it's FUX news, I'm willing to bet the story was something like, the terrorists that have been hiding under your bed, had laptops and were using them to collapse our economy. It's no fault of patriotic Americans like Bush, or the war hero McCain. Wall St. was helpless against this type of assymetrical warfare. Who could have expected it?
Sound about right?
I agree with huckabee! The US has been under a steady persistent threat from terrorists. I won't say their names because of libel issues, but their initials are g.w. bush, dick cheney, david addington, ah hell, there's too many to list, for a more comprehensive list, google "bush admin" years 2000 - 2007.
http://www.imeem.com/people/9lDW8fG/music/SsY...
Rumblings from the Tundra seem to indicate that criminal charges will be the next thing filed against Miss Mooselini, Queen of Power Abuse.
The McCain campaign has found one sentence in the entire 300 pages of this report which states that it is within the purview of the governor to hire and fire.....and this somehow exonerates her when the bottom line of the entire investigation is that she "definitely abused power"?? Huh? Have they all gone mad? Anyone with a brain has figured out this disconnect (for which the McCain Thugs sent up there argued bitterly to have included for primarily this very reason).
Now we'll see how confident Miss Violence Abettor, foul-mouthed, hockey puck Mooselini is on the stump! Other than her rabid reichwingnut base, the rest of american will be booing this now discredited, unethical fraud.
and let's not forget "that one", Mr. First Dude, who had no power to do anything he's done. Is this a man who deserves to be invading the White House?
This same First Dude who had anti-US government ties to the AIP (Secessionist movement in Alaska)?? This same First Dude who was given access to confidential personnel files thanks to his unethical wife?
This is the same First Dude who ran a shadow governorship - while his wife sat back, at home, and only legitimately worked in her office 85 days out of two years?
Send this corrupt, anti-american, secessionist First Dude right back to Alaska where he belongs.
This man will NEVER OCCUPY THE WHITE HOUSE as long as upstanding americans are alive.
'...Send this corrupt, anti-american, secessionist First Dude right back to Alaska where he belongs...'
Steady on, now, that's not fair. Why do you hate Alaska so much? Frankly, if the First Dude wants to succeed, let him go to Russia - he can see it from his front porch, apparently.
Can't criminal charges be brought against Todd Palin for having no authority to pressure and harass employees of the State Government as he did?
I would think so.
First comes the report following the investigation. Next comes criminal charges based on the affadavits of those testifying. I smell criminal charges being launched in both directions this next week - toward Mooselini and toward her sidekick, First Dud.
Todd Palin sounds like a typical high school educated redneck thug - taking the law into his own hands and believing himself to be above the law because his wife is Governor. She may not be Governor long!
I love this thread and the analogies are very apropos since John McCain has been the biggest cheerleader for deregulation - which enabled this economic crash.
It looks like this week's theme will be "Mr. Dederegulator" and I surely hope that they have video of Mike Huckabee announcing and boasting about it on the very day that Lehman Brothers crashed. That was the day when McSleaze proudly stated: "the fundamentals of the economy are sound, my friends". That was the day that poor old Huckabee didn't get the memo. That was the day that tanked two careers within the span of two hours.
RIP - Mike Huckabee
RIP - John McCain
for Obama, that is!!
To say that McCain*Paliban's incitement to terror and campaign of sleaze has backfired in their faces is total understatement.
Check out this Newsweek poll which is new:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_leads_McC...
The longer they fail to discuss the economy, the lower their numbers will tank; in fact, imagine this: FOX NEWS POLL - FOR TODAY - HAS MC CAIN AT 39!! No presidential candidate at this point in the campaign EVER in this history of this country has dipped into the 30's! And coming from FOX NEWS no less???
Even their own rabid viewers are rejecting McSleaze's campaign now. Wonders never cease.
and it goes without saying that focusing on hate-filled rhetoric and incitement to violence and death threats has also not worked at all; in fact, it's made John McCain look like a very small man - a man without integrity; a man without morals. His reputation as a war hero has been besmerched and he will never again be viewed by americans as anything but a sleazy operator willing to incite people to venom and violence to try to win an election.
In fact, what was even more obvious to viewers of his hate rallies was this: When he asked his wingnuts to act civilized, they boo-ed him almost off the stage. These wingnuts don't respect John McCain; if they did, they would never be exhibiting this behavior against him.
This showed the world that John McCain couldn't even begin to handle chaos in this country; he can't even control his own base.
This showed the world that John McCain's classless incitement to violence over the past 4 days lit a forest fire which now even John McCain can't extinguish. He can't control his own mobs - how the hell can he handle any crisis in this country?
John McCain just lost the only edge he once had: Strong on national security; strong on domestic terror. Hell, he became one of them - he became a domestic terrorist by his own rhetoric.
So deregulation sank the Titanic, eh? Well, I FOR ONE would've preferred to die a cold, miserable free-market death in the icy waters of the Atlantic, than to have arrived safely at my port of call, ushered in by the steady, yet Marxist-tainted, hands of regulation-happy SOCIALISTS.
I'm sure everyone who loves FREEDOM feels the same exact way.
Good day.
Hahahahaa....ya...free market capitalism is working SO well, isn't it? Just ask American banks.
As a matter of fact, sir or ma'am, I did just that, and received the following reply.
*ahem*
"Dear Sir,
Thank you for your question and concern.
Free market capitalism is working just fine.
Sincerely,
Mr. Bank President"
Well then---what do you have to say to THAT??
*sits back in triumph*
re: your reply to the question of free market capitalism
I appreciate your fast response: I understand that bank presidents are very busy. May I also express my admiration for your typing skills, as replying to e-mails while balancing on a third-floor bank ledge is tricky at best. While I am on the subject, suicide will not help you or any of the rest of us out of this financial situation. But, should you decide that jumping is your only answer, may I suggest that you choose at least the 4th floor window instead? Other bank presidents have discovered the hard way that you are far more likely to break your leg yet survive from that altitude.
With warmest regards,
Mrs. W
They have experience with helping people down off high places,
coincidentally (or not) the Stock Exchange is in NY too.
Actually, you are dead wrong. The american financial sector has never been free. they are heavily regulated. So what we are seeing is that regulation is the problem, not free market capitalism.
I think it's funny that everyone thinks capitalism is failing, yet is practiced no where in the world. I do not no of one country where there is a complete separation of state and economics.
Send a thank you to communist George Bush and John Mccain then for "gaming the system" - and while you're at it, yes, we americans do love our freedom - especially the freedom from being illegally spied upon.
Yes, we're sick and tired of cleaning up the messes of George Bush and John McCain and the GOP sickos who have controlled this country for far too long.
Yes, we'd love to see freedom reinstated finally. But that cannot occur under Republican rule.
So, pack your bags, troll and head North to Alaska where Mooselini rules - I think you'd be much happier up there.
Troll, you've been outed.
Dear sir/ma'am:
I am not quite sure what a "troll" is, but I'm certain that, under a policy of strict deregulation, the emerging Troll Industry would truly flower into a hulking, out-of-control behemoth that would ultimately benefit all of humanity.
Thank you for your time.
I wouldn't encourage you to take a cruise anytime soon, dude, or you may get your wish.
Every ship that goes down as a result of Free Market deregulation is simply another verse in the Song Of Liberty.
You know, when traveling by sea, Chairman Mao preferred NOT sinking to the bottom of the sea too.
As did Hitler.
What does THAT tell you??
PS) One day I hope to hear The Song Of Liberty performed in its entirety by none other than country music sensation Toby Keith.
Toby Keith sucks.
Give me Zamfir and his pan flute any day!
Does Zamfir have a tremendous FORD logo painted on the side of his pan flute?
No?
I think that says it all.
*coughs*
enough with the regulation bashing, ya putz...
you don´t see spain causing this economic meltdown... and they have universal health... fuck your freedom if it equals de-regulation... bernie sanders american socialism is alive, growing and free...
So Spain had nothing to do with the economic crisis?? Then how do you explain THIS letter, which I received just moments ago:
"Hola América:
Lamento que España causado esta crisis económica.
Atentamente,
El hombre que las normas España"
Once again, I have proven my point.
And while we're on the subject, just take a look at Spain's bull industry. Thanks to deregulation, once a year the beasts now run WILD and FREE in the streets, completely unfettered.
It's really something to see.
My friend, Braveheart your favorite movie?
My friend, Braveheart your favorite movie by any chance?
I did actually laugh out loud at your post. Thanks for a giggle McBurroughs. Pop a couple of pills and take a nap. You might get your wish (cold icy death), sometime next week, once the markets open again.
This evening (it's 9 PM here) I was sitting in an outside cafe with my wife and a nice Norwegian couple. The subject of Obama came up and my Norwegian friends were astonished that there was still any "political question" as they put it about the presidential race.
We started counting "OBAMA" bumper stickers here on cars and Tuk-Tuks and eventually stopped because we never saw one for mcCain.
I'm telling you all this just to give you an idea of how the rest of the Globe feels about American Politics. The world markets are crashing and most people are pointing their fingers first at the US and second at the greed of World Bans that jumped onto the bandwagon.
Anyway,although I'm on my secong cocktail, Good Morning America.
Ciao
Nationally and internationally, the world is recognizing the need for an Obama presidency.
There is no way we can trust McCain on all levels now and Sarah Palin has become a "total liability". Besides, with her husband's anti-goverment secessionist membership and continued ties, this is the last man we need right now with access to anything confidential in the white house.
He didn't give a rip about abusing his power and his wife went right along with it by granting him access to confidential personnel files of state employees.
Ewww....this ticket is going down in flames....self-created flames resulting in a self-fulfilling prophesy of doom.
Is that a significant number of Americans don't care about what the rest of the world thinks about them. And these are the people attending the McCain/Palin events. These are the people who say they know "nothing" about Obama, even though he's been vetted constantly for the last couple of years. These are the people who know nothing about Obama because they choose not to learn, their minds are so closed that nothing will open them. These are the people who make up, unfortunately, about half of our electorate. I think it's time for that all American breakfast beverage, a Bloody Mary. Cheers, Bob, and a cyber clink of our glasses!
Mission accomplished!
Abby Joseph Cohen of Goldman Sachs, the most bullish of the bulls, has used a nautical analogy for our economy, too. During the late nineties
stock market bubble, she called likened the U.S. economy to a supertanker that moved steadily along. Slight problem: the supertanker tanked then and has tanked again.
reminds me.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8691...
asks for military personnel to raise hands to be recognized. Only about three or four do...
The audience looks to be 95% women. Where are the men?
Men have become Palin's worst nightmare. Once a man realizes that he's dealing with a sleazy woman who lies in his face, it's over.
Technically the ship is referred to as "Titanic" not "the Titanic". Only in America is this British ship called The Titanic.
Huh? When you refer to a ship, you use the word "the"....as in "the Andrea Doria"....????
Steam Ship or Mail Ship.
Royal Mail Ship
also one of three super liners, not unique per se.
"The Titanic, along with her Olympic-class sisters, the Olympic and the soon to be built Britannic (originally named Gigantic), were intended to be the largest, most luxurious ships ever to operate."
wikepedia etc
Were used to decorate the Crown bar in Belfast, nice pub to visit.
This subject is not as simple as you would make it. (Unfortunately) I am an engineer and know that things are not always as straightforward as they seem. Below is a pretty good explanation of some of the factors contributing to the sinking;
"Another factor in the break-up of the ship appears to have been crack propagation along rivet holes. For the Olympic-class ships, the rivet holes were cold punched through the steel plates prior to riveting the plates to the framing. This is an invasive process that creates micro-cracks around the periphery of the rivet holes. In addition, many of Titanic's rivets were hydraulically driven, which created residual compressive stresses that were not relieved, as the cooling of the rivets drew the plate tight against the framing. When the sulphide particles in the steel are subjected to stress, the micro-cracks can coalesce into macro-cracks, which provide pathways for fracture propagation. The British Admiralty subsidised the construction of Lusitania and Mauretania, thereby enabling them to enforce their standing requirement for all rivet holes to be reamed in order to prevent the spread of micro-cracks. After Olympic's collision with H.M.S. Hawke in 1911, Harland & Wolff Naval Architect Edward Wilding noted that cracks had developed in plates that were not located within the immediate impact area. His concern was that the micro-cracks allowed fracturing to propagate and he urged that the Lloyd's Rules for hull surveying requirements be modified to include impact and notched-bar testing. However, even though he recommended that rivet holes be reamed as a precautionary measure, he acknowledged that it was an expensive proposition that would not be cost-effective for steamship companies to implement, given the anticipated loads a steamship might endure during her career.
By 1930, ship classification societies had fully disallowed the cold punching process because of experiences with steamships that were by then getting long in the tooth. Olympic, in particular, suffered greatly from stress crack propagation in her plating, as evidenced in a 1930 hull survey. The Queen Mary used essentially the same steel that the Olympic-class ships used, but she suffers less from crack propagation because her rivet holes were drilled, then reamed."
Yes, we need regulations. No, things are not balck and white.
Thank you for bringing some sanity to propaganda, left or right propaganda cannot carry the water.
I added earlier a follow up "It's useless to beat on 1909 technology 100 years later" to the oil rig related comment below [this NEW C&L/drupal system SUX and IS ancient without numbered posts wordpress maintains in their latest revisions!].
I bring up the virtual lack of ISO presence in the U.S.among other problems: ask yourselves as well how come in the 21st Century the U.S. is still in imprecise "imperial" system, while Canada, and UK industry (not the folks!) switched eons ago into much EASIER, cheaper decimal metric system used by the WHOLE WORLD ? Welcome to idiot America !
While the ISO-9000(and ISO-14000 to lesser extent) family of quality standards are MANDATORY all around the world, only few U.S. based corporations utilize these systems. Surprise: the hated multinationals lead, since they CANNOT conduct business in competitive manner without ISO-9000/14000 implemented. Welcome to idiot America ! We are number ONE- not!
The materials science didn't really exist in the Titanic era, and what you describe in your comment could not really be known without quantified destructive testing, a scientific method developed later and used now.
They did not deal with "SYNERGISTIC EFFECTS" in materials/systems, which developed much later, needed for aviation, space, nuclear, military, etc. - any 'mission critical' systems. The non-destructive methods widely utilized now, could not be used then due to lack of technology (x-ray, electromagnetic-such as EWRT, etc). Had they known of synergistic effects, the impact of cold (as ocean water) temperatures on low grade steel(top grade at that time) upon hydro pressures, it would STOP them and redirect their efforts.
There is NO progress without quest for new TECHNOLOGIES, LIGHTER, stronger materials, faster means of travel (for people and all else), etc - without which we would BE LIVING FLINSTONES-land daily. Or, Soviets ! No technology and SCIENCE progress in any/all areas is possible without REGULATORY arm ARMED adequately
Regulation is necessary in any advanced society, but based on FACTUAL SCIENCE not propaganda and Titanic empty propaganda cry. Wall Street's Virtual Money broke our /world economy - cannot be 'undone' based on Titanic PROPAGANDA. FACTS only, please. It's past midnight, the fancy carriage is gone, we are left with a PUMPKIN pulled by the hungry mice.
i believe that no country be allowed to build more ships that are unsinkable! the ocean demands its retribution for sailors who dare sail on its hallowed waters, and besides sunken ships make great breeding grounds for fish, and even fish need homes, so give a fish the love they deserve , and next time you bite into a tuna melt say a prayer for that tuna for nourshing your greedy appitite for the chicken of the sea!
The reasoon I come here, is because the Australian news has a Republican bias, or only emphasises the sensationalist aspects as news. One more respected TV network www.sbs.com.au had a report about the right wing bottom feeders in the USA and you'd get the impression most of the USA is like that and that we are in danger of a McCain presidency because Palin is so popular and most of the USA don't want a black President. It's so depressing, that Australians mainly get a view of Americans as either evangelical rednecks or money hungry war mongers.
(I apologise for Rupert Murdoch, although he has long renounced his Australian citizenship.)
"Ninety-seven years later, industrialists and big business have once again built another ‘unsinkable’ Titanic, a deceptively impressive colossus made out of papier-mâché, sinking rapidly due to deregulation, and is allowing the government to pin the blame on the third-class passengers. Except this time, it’s the Ship of State. And somehow, I’m starting to worry about those lifeboats…"
I thought it was ACORN's fault.
It was Bill Clinton's fault for lying about getting blown in the Oval Office.
Some of the same types of deregulation hit the building of this oil rig. The powerpoint slide show at http://quisquose.tripod.com/petrobras.pps is the most interesting as it includes a statement from a Petrobras executive extolling the virtues of limited insight/quality assurance, i.e., regulation in the development of this oil rig.
More specific details can be found at http://quisquose.tripod.com/petrobras.pps
""This file is hosted by Tripod, a Lycos®Network Site, and is not available for download."" - that's the link you've provided. Could you check your link ? Plse inform if it is an html site w/choice of downloads(or, NOT), or only a downloadable file - I don't download any of such stuff into my computer, unless from safe, known sites not flagged by the site advisor tool. Being professionally involved with regulation/ quality programs in space, military, nuclear, aviation, pharma, etc, I'd be interested to see this oil-rig presentation. We could make the guy quite 'famous' if he is a real jerk - as a proof why the certain REGULATION should be mandatory to protect us from such twisted idiots having some power.
In technology, as in banking, currently we have the tools (which they didn't have at Titanic times), and professionals, to make ANYTHINg (and, everything!) IDIOT PROOF. The only question is "HOW MUCH will it cost" -used by 'deregulators'to kill all. Power of the people - who have to be EDUCATED not by propaganda and populistic flames, but in science and MATH, in which we ARE a nation of celebrated cripples - has to be exercised if we are to make ANY progress. Getting rid legally of ALL lobbyists would be a good start.
Then ask yourselves how come in the 21st Century the U.S. is still in imprecise "imperial" system, while Canada switched eons ago into much EASIER, cheaper decimal metric system used by the WHOLE WORLD ? Welcome to idiot America !
While the ISO-9000(and ISO-14000 to lesser extent) family of quality standards are MANDATORY all around the world, only few U.S. based corporations utilize these systems. Surprise: the hated multinationals lead, since they CANNOT conduct business in competitive manner without ISO-9000/14000 implemented. Welcome to idiot America ! We are number ONE- not!
BTW - it's totally illogical to compare 1912 sinking of Titanic(which did use the most advanced technology available at the time, however flawed and ancient it is to us), with contemporary technology and materials, which are based on tremendous science progressed in the last 100 years. No technology and SCIENCE progress in any/all areas is possible without REGULATORY arm ARMED adequately. The same goes for most of other areas of economy.
Bush (and Clinton and Raygun before him) dismantled our/US world techno superiority by deregulation for sure - from a leader in many disciplines we became excusers, from "YES, we CAN", we became "We CANNOT, it's too expensive", while throwing money at wealthy losers, and MEDIOCRE 'PORK' without end...Wars of choice, without justification. We spent billions on the Space Station, without funds/provision to GET THERE !! Relying for years now on SOVIET crude, UNSAFE and UNRELIABLE 'Flinstones' device, being subject to Putin's moods.
At our current rate and with idiot wingnuts attitooode ruling we would have NEVER gone to the MOON, or into SPACE. The SPACE and nuclear programs (for which COMPUTERS were necessary) advanced our every-day techno improvements much more than any person realizes - this TRULY was a 'trickle down" process, possible ONLY due to FINANCING by the U.S.government, ie TAXPAYERS !!! Therefore each company could partake in the results. But, it has VERY LITTLE to do with this propagnda uber-simpleton-populist subject of this post.
I checked that file before I posted and it worked fine. I went back and I got the same error message that you got, but then I realized that I had tried to open the link in another window. Do not do that. Tripod complains. Just click the link and either open the PowerPoint slideshow or save it and then go and open it. It works fine for me at the moment.
I also inadvertently used the same link twice. I wanted to suggest http://home.versatel.nl/the_sims/rig/p36.htm as the link to get further information.
What we are viewing in the hypsarhythmic and erratic damage control of the McCain campaign over these past few weeks is, indeed, a microcosm of how this man will govern.
One would imagine that the running of a campaign and it's concomittant strategy would include some sort of "strategic plan" "mission statement" and measured "plan" for the success of the mission.
Thus far what we have witnessed is precisely the opposite. McCain has been over-reacting to everything occurring - from suspending his campaign to march into Washington to "fix" the economic crisis (and then he sat there like a mute) to criticizing Obama for being available by phone and if needed (which he did the second time himself from his Virginia apartment), to cancelling the debate, to then announcing "Debate Won" a full two days before the debate occurred....to having a legitimate "economic plan" with the purchase of mortgages...to changing the details of said plan within 24 hours - to submitting his tax returns, sans gambling income (tax evasion?) - to perhaps the largest claim of "incompetence" yet to be launched in his direction - TOTAL AND COMPLETE LACK OF JUDGMENT AND FAILURE IN HIS PRINCIPAL "JOB" - THAT OF SELECTION OF A QUALIFIED VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.
Essentially, americans are viewing McCain's running of his campaign as a microcosm of america - and how totally reckless his campaign has been. His personal level of reckless behavior is suspect now; his personal integrity is also suspect now after watching him intentionally inciting crowds at his rallies to violence with Palin as his "chief instigator". Now we discover that Palin has been governing unethically and will create an even larger drag on this flailing ticket.
His numbers have dropped to 39 - this from a FOX poll now. What does that tell us? It tells us that americans are definitely "getting it" - that if running this ridiculously renegade, erratic campaign is an example of how this man will govern this country, we don't want any part of any of it.
Nice corollary: JP Morgan and 'crashes'...
"The Money Masters" ~ http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7336...
Blaming the victim. Judging the victim. Executing the victim.
Homeless man dies after being set ablaze in LA
It's a foregone conclusion that any hate crime during this election will bring immediate connection to McCain's week-long terror tirade at his rallies. I hope they get sued for all they're worth.
The unsinkable Sarah Palin will strike an electoral iceberg on November 4, and will never be heard from again.
i dont agree. I dont think the republicans are smart enough to read her for what she really is and proceed accordingly.
besides she's a christian.
When government is doing it's job, entire banking industries don't fail all at once, cities hit by hurricanes will be able to evacuate and avoid as much damage as possible, bridges just don't collapse on their own, skyscapers don't get taken down by terrorists because people read their memos in advance, planes get inspected properly without a wink a and a handshake, toys come back from China without lead on them, and large ships don't sink because they glanced an iceberg. With it right in front of their face, it's a little easier now to convince voters that their tax dollars are actually used for something when the right people are in charge. But how long after things settle down will we start hearing the trumpeting of low taxes and deregulation - after all, "what do we need government for" "look around, everything seems to be going ok" "where are all of my tax dollars going?". Reminding the sheep that goverment has an important role to play - this is always going to be a problem for those of us who 'think things through' to their logical conclusion.
Hi,
Independently of all the facts that cause this, the major problem is that economy is too much based upon services and most of the "virtual" money is in the hands of a few.
With the raise in prices for cereals, namely due to bio fuels and the demand from China, those from poor countries who's nurishment is based upon cereals, will suffer alot. And I don't see any lifeboats for them.
Either people start looking at the world as a whole and try to reach a balance between nations, or things won't get any better.
Afterall, in the last 500 year, what kind of evolution did we reach ?
A technological one ?
What about a humanized one ?
best regards,
José
la plus ca change..
"plus ca change, plus c'est la même chose." There, I fixed it for ya, compliments of us frenchies.
"Plus que ca change, plus que c'est la meme chose." A bientot!
The SS GOP.
my take on it is deregulations had nothing to do with the titanic sinking, after all its not reasonable to think a ship made of steel and iron can actually float , ships should be made of wood , as god intended them to be, regulations for wooden ships is more relaxed as they should be, the titanic was a joke and should be treated as such, more life boats only mean that people are scared of floating metal, next time you plan a trip go by wood!
Thank you for a great morning read. Very good story. Well written.
As for the ship of state that is currently sinking? She isn't listing to the right anymore; she has upended and is going down.
Of course, what do you expect with a MONKEY at the helm?
Not withstanding my comment, I do hope that this colossus of a shipwreck we are going through today will end the rein of terror the GOP has hung on our country. I am sick to death of these goons bullying everyone in our nation.
They are thugs and Nazis.
"The investigation proved conclusively it was negligence (and greed) on the part of the ship owners unhindered by any industry regulation."
... and it AUTOMATICALLY follows that regulation would have, what, GOTTEN RID OF THE GREED?!?!?!
Even WITHOUT "regulation", apparently the powers that be were STILL able to get to the bottom of things, and figure out what the core problems were that led to the sinking of the Titanic. But as this article states, it was simply brushed under the rug...
And you think that "regulation" somehow makes the tendency to hide and conceal one's crimes suddenly and magically "go away"?
How about the "regulation" in our economic system?
How many REAMS and REAMS of rules do you have to pass, before you dumb-asses figure out that you really can't control what is basically a CHAOTIC SYSTEM?
I will quote President Obama:
"Now, let me just close by saying this. I do not think this is going to be easy. It’s not going to come without costs. We are all going to need to sacrifice. We’re all going to need to pull our weight, because now, more than ever, we are all in this together. Now, that’s part of what this crisis has taught us, that, in the end of the day, there’s NO REAL SEPARATION BETWEEN WALL STREET AND MAIN STREET (emphasis added). There’s only the road we’re traveling on as Americans. And we will rise or fall on that journey as one nation and as one people."
Sounds really purty, don't it?
The problem is, there's a reason WHY there's no separation between "Wall Street" and "Main Street"... It's because "Wall Street" now OWNS "Main Street"!
That's what "elastic currency" does, it quietly and slowly robs a nation blind!
You know, you wouldn't give a RAT'S ASS about a bank collapsing today... If you actually had the deed to your house!
Think about it.
While I personally don't think regulation will 'magically' eradicate anyone's tendency to hide and conceal a crime, I also like the idea that regulation may help prevent underage children from buying alcohol in a bar, drinking it and getting behind the wheel of a car without ever having passed a driver's licence test, drive on whatever side of the road they feel like without any stop signs or - the expense! the taxes it would cost! - traffic lights, running down a little old lady trying to cross the road but who cares, since there aren't any regulations about killing people. Who needs laws, anyway, it's just Big Government trying to run our lives...
I didn't have to think about this too long. But thanks for the laugh.
Our currency was doomed when the FED was formed, no currency has ever survived in history. It always comes back to gold and silver, this is no different. Watch before this is done the dollar will die, fractional reserve banking is and always has been flawed.
You have to understand the history of money
Base and link the money supply on food production, industrial, medical and consumer products, work hours, GDP., then money becomes a thing of worth.
After all 10 dollars is the worth of an average hours wage for an average person doing something averagely boring...
So if I have 10 dollars in my pocket and give it to somebody then they do an hours work for me. The basic fundamental worth of, and power relationship of money to labor and effort.
We need to go back to basics in economics, then build up to the more fancy stuff.
They had never made a passenger ship before, the Cunard ships all had double hulls something the Titanic did not have. It is also rumoured in Belfast is when the Titanic was launched you could see the Anti Catholic graffiti on the hull. On a lighter note, you may enjoy this video on ship building standards.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DQCwnoMMqtA
very very funny
White Star Line actually went to H&W for ALL new ships. They also put in double bottoms on their ships, including Titanic.
Ironically, Some point out that post Titantic regulation and the assoicated weight of additional lifeboats sunk the Eastland while at a dock in Chicago.
Also interesting to note that one of the most strident government regulators at this time was Wisconsin Republican, Robert M. LaFollette Sr.. Known for his opposition to US involvement in World War I LaFollette stated,
"Every nation has its war party. It is not the party of democracy. It is the party of autocracy. It seeks to dominate absolutely. It is commercial, imperialistic, ruthless. It tolerates no opposition. It is just as arrogant, just as despotic, in London, or in Washington, as in Berlin. The American Jingo is twin to the German Junker.... If there is no sufficient reason for war, the war party will make war on one pretext, then invent another."
It's a nice post and all, and I'm glad to see you're enjoying something I've studied since I was 6 WITHOUT that f***ing movie being involved... but I'm afraid there's one thing: nonny mouse is completely wrong.
Titanic and her sisters were never, I repeat, NEVER designed to outrun Lusitania or Mauritania, the Cunard ships that the Olympic class were built to respond to. It's a common misconception. White Star's intent was to outclass them in opulence and luxury, as well as to attract more third class passengers which was the real lifeblood of ocean liners at the time, ferrying millions of immigrants to America. In fact, Titanic was purposely made heavier that Olympic to correct vibration issues and add a Parisian cafe salt spray screens for first class! So, while I see nonny's point here for a historical comparison, it fails because that key fact is incorrect.
May I offer another alternative regarding politics... Titanic didn't have enough lifeboats? Wrong. She actually had more than required by law in 1912 by the British Board of Trade. Ships 10,000 tons and over had to carry at least 16 lifeboats. Titanic, almost five times larger, carried 20. Because of government inaction, 1,523 people paid for it that cold April night (although that ignores the fact Titanic sank before they could launch even the lifeboats they DID have).
Not enough lifeboats to make a number of seats equal to or greater than the number of passengers and crew.
Like having a car that seats 7, and only equipping it with 4 seat belts. And you can believe, if that were ok by the law here, that's how car makers would do it, just like Cunard did. "We can carry over 1500 passengers and crew, and will do so, but only supply 1500 of them with a seat on a life boat. And their class, gender and age will dictate seating"
Very humanistic and caring to cry out that they were in compliance with a law that was inadequate and out of date for the technology.
That stuff was brittle at below 45F. The impurities were known, but they went ahead anyway. Oversight? Pah!
The House of Morgan upon having surveyed what was in early 20th century known as 'the North Atlantic ferry trade' set out with creation of IMM to dominate the market,set a firm floor for passenger,mail and freight fares and rates and capture multiple profit streams from the concentrated and near monopoly protected IMM.
'Titanic' was actually the second of a trio of IMM White Star passenger liners intended to replace several older,smaller North Atlantic steamships. The White Star 'Olympic' class would have required three ships to support the weekly sailing schedules of the White Star Line. The idea was to scale up capacity,bring down overhead and increase market share of the North Atlantic ferry business. On near monopoly terms.
When 'Titanic' sunk on her maiden voyage this carefully considered three ship schedule rotation experienced a setback White Star never completely overcame.
'Olympic'--the first of these three early 20th century "super liners" went on to have a successful run right out through the mid 1930's when she was taken out of service. Parts of her splendoured interiors today now reside in England in a hotel.
'Titanic' now lays on the Atlantic sea floor broken and rusting away.
The third ship of this fabled trio,'Britannic'--after the ill fated end of 'Titanic'--was redesigned and built to be able to survive what was thought to have caused 'Titanic' to founder. 'Britannic' never did sail as White Star intended. 'Britannic' was turned into a WW1 Royal Navy Reserve hospital ship which strangely ended up sinking very fast after a German submarine torpedoed 'Britannic' off a Greek island.'Britannic' lies on her side in surprising good condition still at a depth of about 400 feet today.
After WW1 the Germans ended up giving over two super German North Atlantic liners to the British. The German superliner 'Bismarck' became the White Star 'Majestic' and the German superliner 'Imperator' became the Cunard 'Berengaria'. Both liners in part making up for the loss of White Stars 'Britannic' and Cunards 'Lusitania' WW1 related sinkings.
The third super German liner 'Vaterland' was taken over by the Americans once Germany and United States fell into declared conflict. The 'Vaterland' was ruthlessly stripped of her German opulent interiors and made over into a American trooping ship. After WW1 ex-'Vaterland' now known as the American 'Leviathan' went on the North Atlantic ferry but never met with much commercial or critical success. 'Leviathan' was broken up in the late 1930's in light of severe economic downturn from the drying up of American immigration and 1930's Great Depression.
We know the 'Olympic' class exceeded known or understood regulations of the time. IMM went on after 'Titanic' but by the mid 1930's White Star was merged with Cunard by the British government and a new chapter in truly big 'superliners' such as Cunards 'Queen Mary' or the French Lines 'Normandie' came into being.
'Queen Mary' today is found in Southern California.Her sister 'Queen Elizabeth' ended up a burned out,sunken hulk in Hong Kong Harbor. Oddly this hulk became a set for/in one of the 'James Bond' movies in the 1970's.
The fabulous art deco interiors of the 'Normandie' had a fate worse than that of the 'Vaterland' as the 'Normandie'ended up a burned out,half sunk hulk at the hand of sloppy American gutting for WW2 troopship duty.After WW2 the "Normandie' hulk was sold off and broken up for scrap. A truly tragic fate for this great French liner.
Whatever Wall St. has been doing over these past ten years it is certain now WashingtonDC was fully derelict regarding regulation,market intervention and simple red lighting of dubious +/- Wall St. and related American mortgage banking shady,unfounded practices. For overlooking repeatedly a blatant,criminal due diligence disregard.
Captain Smith went down with 'Titanic'. It would be edifying to see some Wall Streeters and American Big Banking players now 'going down with the ship' so to speak as well.
That would be an honorable thing to do.
Too bad being honorable is so out of style these days.
Very much too bad indeed for hundreds of millions who will now be put to the economic lash to make up for what this absolute fiscal debacle is now bringing to the light of day.
"Nearer My God To Thee" playing in the distance.
I first heard (on the teevee) that the G7 would save the world economy, USING TAXPAYER MONEY. After that, the exact same report, and same footage, just said save the world economy, but NEVER AGAIN a mention of the taxpayer money. They cut it right out of the news clip. Hmmmm...?????
Really? Deregulation.
Here what McCain said about Freddie and Fannie 2 years ago!
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=289...
that was just a cover your ass letter--by 2006 everyone knew the mortgages were in the tank
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/541/longeh...
"Free-Marketeers"/Laissez-Faire-ists
are LOSERS of the lowest order.
Thjey are now the bottom-of-the-barrel in America.
If they speak out, SLAP THEM DOWN.
Enough is enough.
As James Bond would say,
"That's a Smith & Wesson", and THEY'VE HAD THEIR SIX".
It's over, Korporatists!!
I hate to be a party pooper, but that old line about the Titanic having "a gash in her hull" has been proven to be a vast oversimplification. The real truth is probably closer to the fact that the cold ocean water made the impure steel produced by the processes of the day highly brittle. In effect, the real truth is probably closer to the metaphor of someone breaking a full length mirror against a brick wall.
The truth may never be known. But I find the extension of the Titanic metaphor historically interesting. You cannot deregulate something which was never regulated. As you point out, the cutthroat competition between shipping lines for the booming trade in immigrant passengers was a gold mine for the robber barons of the day.
It is odd that almost exactly 100 years later, the same sort of moral quandary grips not only a major industry, but two great nations as well. The RMS Titanic was of British registry, and yet, it took major efforts from both Britain and the United States to recover from that tragedy, and to effect changes in both regulation and law to be certain that such a tragedy never repeated itself. Today, we find ourselves in the appalling grip of another great tragedy. We are reminded almost hourly that not only world financial markets are inextricably linked one to another, but the fate of the common people, is tied inextricably together by forces which respect neither wealth nor station. That terrible night in 1912, rich and poor met a tragic death side by side. Tragedy is no respecter of wealth. As we struggle almost a century later, we would do well to remember that the fate of vast numbers of people both rich and poor, are as bound together by circumstance and fate as those people doomed aboard the Titanic. In the face of what can only be described as an appalling tragedy for so many people in this day and age, thoughts which should be uppermost in our minds should be not only relief for the many who are afflicted, but steps taken at the same time to be certain that no such tragedy should ever cast an icy shadow over good people ever again.
Roci
I agree the post oversimplifies the issues with the rivets and steel and blatenly ignores several other scientific factors that have been outlined in other posts.
The cheaper-the-better method of building may be easy to criticize in rerospect but in fact, at the time, US & UK intestigations determined that there was no fault in the construction of the ship. Today, modern knowledge tells us that this is not really accurate.
But how could they have placed regulations on things they didn't even know of yet?
When I saw the title of this post I thought the article would center on outdated British shipping regulations regarding the number of lifeboats- but there's not even a mention of that!
That at least was something people were aware of even at the time.
Often times it takes tragedies like the Titanic to make people aware of the need for regulations.
The Titinic always makes for interesting metaphors but unlike the Titanic disaster, the financial crisis had had PLENTY of warnings throughout history. certain people of influence/power just chose to ignore them.
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