Dennis Kucinich Schools Prominent Wingnut Doc at This Week's Single Payer Hearing
(Ed. note - Logan already posted on this, but it's worth a second look .)
Ah yes, I'm not surprised that psychiatrist David Gratzer testified this week that the Canadian healthcare system is just awful and how the poor deprived Canadians are simply pouring across the border to the Mayo Clinic to get specialized medical care.
Oddly enough, he forgot to mention that the Canadian government was not only sending them across the border, they were picking up the check. Yes, it's a system so awful, even Canadian conservatives defend it.
How gratifying it was, to see Dennis Kucinich lay the smackdown on this guy.
Dr. Gratzer has been a prominent freemarket advocate since his college days and has been riding that gravy train ever since. He is especially beloved of freemarket conservatives because of a piece he wrote two years ago that hit the wingnut sweet spot: "The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care."
He's a fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a "non-partisan" think tank funded by the usual partisan suspects:
The Manhattan Institute received $19,470,416 in grants from 1985-2005, from foundations such as the Koch Family Foundations, the John M. Olin Foundation, Inc., the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Scaife Foundations, and the Smith Richardson Foundation. The Manhattan Institute does not disclose its corporate funding, but the Capital Research Center listed its contributors as Bristol-Myers Squibb, Exxon Mobil, Chase Manhattan, Cigna, Sprint, Reliant Energy, Lincoln Financial Group Foundation, and Merrill Lynch.
So I think you can see where he's coming from. And really, what could make the right wing more excited than a Canadian doctor, criticizing the Canadian health care system?
Just recently, he wrote an op-ed for the Wall St. Journal which Media Matters debunked, and is famous for pushing HSAs (health savings accounts), which are sort of the health care version of privatizing Social Security. (Naturally, wingnuts love them!)
You're probably not aware that for the past decade or so, right-wing American groups have been pouring a lot of money into Canada to undermine their health system. (Can you guess why? I knew you could! So American health care corporations can make a killing there, too!)
Dr. Gratzer's biggest thing is hammering away on wait times - even though the long wait times are mostly for non-urgent care. (You can read a rebuttal about many of the common myths here.) He also thinks the way to bring down the cost of prescription drugs is... to cut back on those pesky FDA requirements!
While serving as an adviser to Rudy Giuliani's campaign, he was called out by Factcheck.org and others for supplying a bogus cancer statistic Rudy used in an ad:
Rudy Giuliani's latest radio ad, which began airing in New Hampshire this week, draws a stark picture for anyone diagnosed with prostate cancer in England. "I had prostate cancer, five, six years ago," the Republican presidential candidate says in the ad. "My chance of surviving prostate cancer, and thank God I was cured of it, in the United States, 82 percent. My chances of surviving prostate cancer in England, only 44 percent under socialized medicine.”
The pushback was fast and furious:
"You would get an F in epidemiology at Johns Hopkins if you did that calculation," said Johns Hopkins professor Gerard Anderson, whose 2000 study "Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data" has been cited by Gratzer as a source for his statistics.... Five-year prostate cancer survival rates are higher in the United States than in Britain but, according to Howard Parnes of the National Cancer Institute, this is largely a statistical illusion.... Both Anderson and Parnes say that it is impossible, on the basis of the available data, to conclude that Americans have a significantly better chance of surviving prostate cancer than Britons.
British health officials were also quick to point out the error:
The Office for National Statistics says that the five-year survival rate from prostate cancer in Britain is 74.4 per cent.
Mr Giuliani’s campaign did not give an immediate response. But a spokeswoman has previously insisted that he would continue to repeat the statistic and run the advertisement. She said the 44 per cent figure came from an article in a “highly respected intellectual journal” published by the right-wing Manhattan Institute, which he had read because “he is an intellectually engaged human being”.
The article’s author, David Gratzer, who is an adviser to Mr Giuliani’s campaign, has acknowledged to The New York Times that the statistic is seven years old and “crude”.
He said that it came from the Commonwealth Fund, which specialises in health policy issues. But the same organisation has since issued a statement accusing Dr Gratzer of misusing its research.
The Commonwealth Fund responded:
In fact, the five-year survival data cited in the City Journal article do not come from The Commonwealth Fund report, and cannot be calculated from that report. What the report, Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data, 2000 by Gerard F. Anderson and Peter S. Hussey of Johns Hopkins University, includes are data on prostate cancer incidence and mortality rates in the two countries.
Specifically, The Commonwealth Fund report features a chart showing that, in 1997, the incidence of prostate cancer in the U.S. was 136 per 100,000 males and the mortality rate (death rate) was 26 per 100,000 males. By comparison, in the U.K. the prostate cancer incidence was 49 per 100,000 and the death rate was 28 deaths per 100,000. (The prostate cancer incidence rate—which is the number of men diagnosed with the disease in a given year—in the U.S. is thought to be higher because prostate cancer screening is much more common in this country.)
The incidence rates simply report the number of men diagnosed with prostate cancer in a given year. Prostate cancer mortality rates report the number of men who died of the disease in a given year. Neither speaks to length of survival, and that figure can not be calculated using the others.
Yes, Dr. Gratzer (like most right-wing true believers) is prone to seeing what he wants to see, and then insisting it's the truth. How refreshing to see him treated as the willful nincompoop he is.
On the practicality equation of US politics
Nader here
Kucinich is one the few in Congress that I respect, but the question must remain:
Why is single payer not practical?
---
Uwe E Reinhardt ‘Rationing’ Health Care: What Does It Mean?
here
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Wendell Potter The Ultimate Irony: Health Care Industry Adopts Big Tobacco's PR Tactics
here
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Willem Buiter The inevitable socialisation of health care financing
here
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Buffy there got a bit of a slap down.
is intended to be a factual statement
Can't Kucinich get the respect and the results he deserves? Crap, I know why, because he doesn't look Presidential. Too bad we can't kill all of television and only listen to what people have to say.
Anybody can be made to "look presidential".
They made Obama look presidential.
They even told us he was a fox.
The truth is that the left is afraid of Kucinich.
They're afraid of Nader.
They're afraid of the truth.
They're so busy thinking they're winners.
as a president, dennis could not carry on like this
he cannot be made to look presidential...he isnt
and no one is afraid of nader
he is just a shit disturber
And since when is pointing out the obvious considered "provocative?"
LOL... maybe you don't know the left?
Remember back in the Primaries when they asked the 'leading' candidates real questions and then they got to Kucinich and asked him things like "did you really see a UFO?"
It makes me so mad when I remember how badly Dennis was treated before the election, even so called liberals like Keith Oberman just couldn't resist cracks about his height, his wife and the damn UFO thing. That "debate" question was disgraceful, absolutely shameful. Honestly I don't think he had much of a chance but he should have been allowed to talk and express his ideas without being treated like a joke so people could hear what he thinks and realize that he's not the looney leftie they try to portray him as.
I had never heard of Dennis, but I watched the Travis Smiley and the AFL-CIO debates, and Kucinich's positions were most aligned with my own.
I knew better than to rely on the corporate media debates to decide who was the better candidate.
I've met him and his wife. Twice. He's not as impish in real life. He commands the room, and is very smart.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
His positions aside, I do like the guy. And I trust this guy. There is something fundamentally wrong with a Congress that would take impeachment "off the table", when a President misrepresented a nation building endeavor as an imminent threat, costing this nation over a trillion dollars. Kucinich had no problem pushing for impeachment.
I hate to have to say it, but I view that issue as a much more serious symptom of something wrong with the government than this current health care reform charade.
He's one of us. He sees the world as a human being (remember Little Big Man?). He knows who our enemies really are. Sadly the liberals in this country still cower to the media elite, the Wall Street bankers, the lobbyists and the image makers.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
of smarmy weasel Dr Gratzer is one of the best things I've ever seen. Outstanding!
Major kudos to Dennis K!
...I think that we witnessed Dennis Kucinich tearing Dr Gratzer a new a-hole.....in spite o=f the fact that Dr Gratzer seems to be quite an a-hole already.
Was that new a-hole covered by his insurance?
Well, yes, it would be because he is Canadian: everyone has 100% coverage.
He's working for big money from American insurance companies.
far left loon >.<
Of corrrrrrrse (slapping forehead with palm).
His new a-hole was not covered because it was a pre-existing condition.
FactsRStubborn
PA
So cut him a new colostomy with a rusty cat food can lid!
I was discussing restaurant food poisoning and recalled an old experience with a carload of us getting flu from fast-food salads while on a road trip.
Just realized that we caught the Burger King flu from a no-health-benefits worker while in Alabama, returned to TN, became ill, and infected our colleagues, and then I filed monthly reports, sent them to Atlanta, and the bookkeeper became ill and spent 3 weeks out of work. We spread our disease through three states within 48 hours. Now, that's vectoring!
In this day and time, biological warfare, contagion, etc. presents a national security risk. We do need a national health care plan for precisely that reason--to prevent the deliberate or accidental spread of biological weapons!
When Kucinich was running for the presidency against all of those fakers, no one on the left supported him. No progressive blogs supported him.
In the 2008 Presidential election there was so much at stake that the most important thing was to get the Democratic primary winner in the White House...no matter who it was.
If you keep beating that dead horse it may kill you.
Ignorance is bliss.
That's why he wasn't supported.
We could use him in the Senate.
Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.
We could use him in the White House
You know why? Because to be president, you must support the status quo, which is what Obama is doing. Surprised? You shouldn't be.
In any case, Kucinich would make a fantastic speaker of the house.
I see were they conjured up the 44% (28 deaths from the 49 diagnosis per 100,000) but that would fail epidemiology and statistics. Misleading is too kind a word -- this is a lie.
I guess the UK should screen all males and raise their survival rate to 99.972%. Now THAT would show those wussy US statisticians.
Yes, Dr. Gratzer (like most right-wing true believers) is prone to seeing what he wants to see, and then insisting it's the truth. How refreshing to see him treated as the willful nincompoop he is.
It's hard to see the truth...when your paycheck depends on you not seeing it.
Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught
will we realize we cannot eat money.
other than the fact that he is a practicing shrink, and i cant see anyone going to him for any sort of therapy, is that he is a shrink, and mental health gets the short end of all insurance policies
unless you only take meds or get hospitalization
btw, guys who finish at the top of their classes in med school, usually dont choose psychatry
... are way to busy to work full time for "think tanks" providing talking points, completely unrelated to their area of medical expertise/practice, to lobbying/political groups.
are happy. If you hadn't have acted like Republicans and just listened to the slogans, if you had done a little research, that man you just watched would have been President, instead of that centrist in Liberal clothing that you voted for. But hey, you got chant a catchy three word slogan "Yes We Can," and isn't that what's really important.
I'm a big fan of Kucinich. I also believe that if he were in Obama's position he would realize that he' have to alter some of his stances once he became President.
It's the ones Obama has altered that is so disturbing.
Ya, so far all we have to go on from Obama is:
"i promiced transparancy but i changed my mind for the time being" Hmm...
Well, i say give it all some time to play out then.
In the mean time the DOJ is still dealing with an infection no doubt.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Obama never supported "single payer". So, at this point, he hasn't altered his position. Wasn't he campaigning with insurance man, Warren Buffet, and if you have any questions for his affinity for insurance companies, just ask AIG.
However, that said, I think it's a huge mistake that single payer is "off the table" if, for no other reason, to establish a cost benchmark. With other industrial countries paying 11% of GDP while we pay 16% of GDP, it makes it quite obvious that this "health care reform" effort is a charade between the lobbyists and the influence peddlers in Congress.
We should not be talking about how to pay for health care reform, we should be talking about what we'll be doing with the money that we saved with health care reform.
The difference, (16% of GDP - 11% of GDP) 5% of GDP that we pay in excess is quite a high price for an ideological aversion to "socialism".
Didn't you watch the Bill Moyers Journal where it showed Obama saying he supported Single payer, but said that first we have to take back the White house and Congress?
I knew what I was getting when I voted for Obama. Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. No matter how much Obama wavers (and it does piss me off), I know that at the VERY LEAST, we avoided WWIII under Palin / McCain.
Kucinich: bringing sexy back. Woof.
far left loon >.<
We need him ... He always fights for us!
Now..
That smarmy prick doctor makes me want to commit violence against him...
Why??
Because he insists on committing mass violence on all my fellow working class Americans..
"My position is respectable, and I dislike your comments sir"
Flips me the FUCK out!
What a douche...
Not real violence.. just a biff to his fat smarmy head...
People will support (twice) a proven lying Republican. People will support and elect a lying Dem. But bring out someone that actually speaks the truth, and doesn't bullshit, and those professing the need for changes in Washington, defend the status quo. Hate like hell to lose the oval office to someone that doesn't bullshit, huh?
People will vote based on what they see and hear. If Obama wasn't corporate approved, we would have seen non stop Reverend Wright in the 2 months leading up to the elections.
However, with the advent of the Internet, ordinary people have more input into the political process, although not a controlling influence. This presents challenges to both the corporate Democrats, as well as the corporate Republicans, who are challenged by the secessionists and theocracy.
The Supreme Court is considering changing campaign rules that could allow for unlimited corporate spending. This would allow a greater amount of what people see and hear to be corporate controlled, which would predictably cause them to think, say, and vote the corporate line.
While the high costs of health care is a problem, the spectacle we're witnessing is a symptom of the core problem in this country, namely, a government of influence peddlers soliciting bribes from the willing corporate lobbyists.
Especially where this post is concerned! Go Dennis! To hell with that conciliatory stuff--time to take on these losers!
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
to the (canadian) wood shed for a proper beating. i've lived in canada. my family still does. i / we having nothing but good to say about that awful socialist medicine.
Congress should not allow any of these corporate shills to testify unless it's under oath. If they lie, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.
I'm a 53 year old who went back to school a couple of years ago and am on student insurance. I pay for the maximum coverage. Last March I was hospitalized for complicated diverticulitis, my insurance paid 14,000 towards a 73,000 dollar bill. The Doctors and the hospital literally saved my life. I will forever be grateful to them. As far as the insurance companies, there's a special circle in Hell for these people and their minions.
How about the foreign exchange student that came over here and was mugged and knocked unconscious, the person that found her knocked out on the ground called an ambulance. Her hospital bills were so high that she had to return to her country because she couldn't afford to pay them and was unable to finish her schooling here. What a great system we have.
I was over at the C-Span site last night watching a replay of the entire hearing. As a professor in the faculty of medicine at one of Canada's leading Universities, I am left shaking my head in disbelief! Where, oh where, did the Congressional Hearing get this creepy talking head? I am sure the other learned panelists were also wondering. There are hundreds of better qualified physicians in Canada, who have practiced on both sides of the 49th parallel, to offer a better commentary on this crucial subject. Canada is a vast Nation and I'm sure that one could comb the country far and wide to find those voices of citizens who are dissatisfied with the health care they get. Dr. Gratzer must have had to search extra hard in order to find such an obscure case in Quebec instead of from his own province of Manitoba. As a Canadian citizen and resident, it irks me to encounter the Canadian health care system being grossly misconstrued and misrepresented in the hallowed halls of America's House of Congress.
Those opposed to a single payer plan can lament the wait times for elective surgery in Canada but the (criminal) fact that is so routinely overlooked is that there are more people in America who have NO health insurance to speak of and rely on, than the entire population of Canada. And from what I understand, even those who are insured still face the horrific prospect of having procedures requested by their physicians denied by their insurance companies. And then there are the Co-pays and the prospect of not being able to take your insurance with you when you change (or lose!) your job, and dealing with higher premiums or even a refusal of coverage due to a pre-existing condition. Why do the citizens of one of the greatest Nations of our time put up with this evil arrangement?!
For the 'conservatives' who dread any semblance of 'socialized medicine', I would point out that Canada's system, which was adopted by many of the industrialized countries that currently have a single-payer healthcare system was pioneered by a small group of Christian church ministers (lead by "Greatest Canadian" Tommy Douglas- himself a Baptist minister) who became the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation (CCF)- or the pre-cursor to today's New Democratic Party (NDP). They apparently took to heart the socially responsive teachings of Jesus and did what it took to institute a system that saw health care as a basic human right and not an option only for the very wealthy.
Single payer is the only way to go. And when you go for it, don't pattern yours' on Canada's system. Instead, glean the best aspects of all of the single payer systems of the world, make sure that you put adequate funding and oversight in place, and make it the model for the world to follow.
Good luck to you all on this mounumental bill. God Bless America!
For your insightful comments and it's a pleasure to have you as our friendly neighbor.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
you need to make sure Ed Schultz knows your story.
he is making this his issue and is hammering away, on his radio show and MSNBC - as much as allowed when "more important" stories pre-empt his tv show.
he is also wanting to take a road trip to canada for a town hall and investigation into all the long lines and unhappy people...
not kidding here - contact him, please: http://wegoted.com/
and/or ed@msnbc.com
just copy and paste what you wrote here, for starters...
thanks!
Awesome post!
As a fellow Canadian, I have been posting comments, mainly here, and on other blogs about our Canadian healthcare system & how our American neighbours should be able to enjoy something akin.
You bring to the table experience in & knowledge of the field and you spotlight facts that only a very few Americans will ever know.
I do hope that you are able to spread your words, not only to the 'choir', but to others in the U.S. wondering how to even approach thinking about this most serious issue.
As for Dr. Gratzer, apparently his voice is entirely connected to his wallet...as is his psychiatric degree...I can't possibly imagine that he would be able to drum up even an ounce of compassion or understanding for anyone, except himself.
Please do keep posting...your voice needs to be heard.
I'm yet another Canadian posting here.
Realize there are two side to this discussion in Canada as well. We have waiting lists and people dying in ERs waiting for care. There are a lot of people here unhappy about how things work. And there are plenty of countries that pay less and receive better care than what Canada offers.
I don't think I'd trade our system for the American one, but don't accept everything you hear about the Canadian healthcare system on face value.
According to his biography on Wikipedia, he was born in Winnipeg Manitoba, and got his MD from U. Manitoba. If the birth date is correct, he published his first anti-Canadian healthcare system book "Code Blue: Reviving Canada's Health Care System " at the age of 24, probably before he'd even graduated medical school. I was curious about what he says in the book, so I've ordered it. But, since it's not common practice for publishers to sink money into publishing books written by college kids who only shave twice a week, I'm wondering how and by whom the book was published.
Five bucks says The Fraser Institute (the Canadian analog of The Heritage Foundation) was behind it.
I guess it's true what they say about the Wingnut Welfare system. If you're the only doctor in Canada who's wants to trash the single payer health care system in favor of Bush-style healthcare savings accounts, and don't mind pimping your reputation out to a bunch of right wing think tank front organizations, you'll never starve!
Since I don't have a lot of money, and I don't have health insurance, I'd GLADLY wait 3-4 weeks to see a doctor. Hell, if it was free, a 6 month wait would be better than nothing.
If you're rich enough to pay for a doctor yourself, go ahead, and avoid the wait.
David Gratzer is the face of American medical care and insurance companies. A douche's douche if I ever saw one.
Until Americans put a stop to the system of exploitation and greed in our nation we won't see any of the progressive changes that we need. We are being exploited as both employees and consumers by Corporate America. What is being done to us is not supposed to happen in a honest democratic system. For all those capitalists who love to talk of Reagan bringing about the end of communism, and the Soviet Union, I would like to ask them how capitalism is any better? If it is better than explain the decline in living wages, affordable health care, and housing. Please don't use the excuse that it's the fault of the working poor, and middle class. The excuse that we are to blame, that we are not working hard enough, or that we don't have a decent standard of living because of our choices. Also don't claim that we have a system of due process, and justice. George Bush, Dick Cheney, and John Yoo did everything they could to erode civil liberties.
It's because of people like Dr. Dickhead in the video above, and his greedy corporate masters that poverty is growing in America. While at the same time the wealth of a nation is increasingly being consolidated in the hands of a few. What kind of example is America to other nations when the working poor, and middle class are viewed with contempt, and treated with hostility by Wall Street?
I would theorize that the good doctor couldn't make as much practicing in Canada as his wealthy counterparts in the USA, so he has a major axe to grind. The only way he could get the big bucks was to become a shill for the insurance lobby. The state of mental health care in this country is what I would characterize as abysmal. And in these times we need it more than ever before.
The biggest obstruction to Kucinich is not the opposition. It's his own party. It was progressive movement that got Obama past Clinton. The obama supporters were sold another bill of goods. It is sheer cowardice that prevents Kucinich from getting the support he needs. We all know that he represents what NEEDS to be done to right the ship of state. Kucinich is the only reason that I maintain my registration as a Democrat. And that only because you have to vote your party in the CA primaries. But that too shall change.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
i have friends who reside in canada, they do just fine
they dont envy any of us in america
Then it's just ego. But again it's just speculation. Do Canadian shrinks make $200/hr?
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
do you honsestly believe that this guy ever practiced?
they say he does....but who in their right mind would go to him
he lacks empathy and believes that he is better than everyone in the room....neither make for a very good shrink
no...the guy writes books, goes on the lecture circuit and takes tons from the insurance companies
he is just a flim flam man with some letters next to his name
We saw that this guy couldn't answer the questions. That's because the data doesn't support his position. The fact is, we could adapt the Canadian system, throw a little extra money at it to reduce waits, and still pocket a sizable savings over the current system.
When we hear about how we're going to pay for health care reform, as opposed to what we're going to do with the money saved through health care reform, it's safe to conclude that we're witnessing a charade, that has as its primary purpose, protecting corporate profits.
Yup. Caring for people is defintely NOT what he is about. He is a class A prick. I'd love to have a conversation with him. I love taking on guys like this. Kucinich exposed him for the fraud that he is.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
However, you will never see this clip play on main stream media in the US. And you will never see main stream media expose people like this Dr. Prick for the greedy liars that they are.
The end of Net Neutrality will be the means by which you'll, in the future, won't see this clip on the internet either. ISPs will carry certain web sites like cable television carries channels.
The Supreme Court seems poised to inundate us with corporate propaganda. But to shut off the alternatives, the end of net neutrality is required.
Remember that the courts have held that free expression, diversity, democracy, and culture require "an uninhibited marketplace of ideas in which truth will prevail" - a marketplace where there is a "wide diversity of viewpoints from a multiplicity of sources."
The corporations require that truth not prevail. Consequently, we have an inhibited marketplace of ideas. Needless to say, the subject of the current thread stands out. Health care has two problem, (1.) it costs too much, and (2.) not everyone can avail themselves of needed medical services.
#1 here, "it costs too much" is off the table. While we're hearing promises of not jacking up future costs so much, there is no discussion of getting our cost structure in line with the other industrial countries. But, at least, currently, we can raise the point on the internet of getting our costs in line.
Since Kucinich isn't corporate owned, the corporate media isn't about to help legitimize him in any respect.
Jeez, that weasel really pissed me off. He can't answer Kucinich's questions, and what's even worse is that Kucinich gives him time to answer, but that jerk says he can't answer the question if Kucinich keeps cutting him off. It's incredible that there are people like this in the world. If he doesn't know, just say so....it's better to be an ignoramous and not know anything than to be an idiot jerk prick ignoramous and not know anything.
This needs to get on Ed Schultz's show, Keith Olbermann's show, and Rachel's show....this is just unbelieveable crap.
And, good for Dennis Kucinich....he's a true hero.
I'm Canadian. I have lived with the dreaded socialized medicine all of my life. It has provided:
1. Artificial hip surgery including followup for minor injury to hip. Plus rehab. Several broken limbs fixed (I was an active and somewhat clumsy child.)
No payment out of pocket!
2. My niece has had two (2) kidney transplants.
No payment out of pocket!
Wife had surgery was in hospital for 1 week.
No payment out of pocket!
I can visit any clinic any time. No cost.
Many doctors give medications free to start (usually 6 weeks worth)
I waited 1.5 months for my hip replacement.
Niece was operated on as soon as donor was cleared.
Wife was operated on within 1 month of seeing doctor.
I have lived in 2 separate provinces and coverage was seamless.
We pay 95$ per month for coverage to cover 2 people. The fee is on a sliding scale according to income. If you're unemployed...nada. Full coverage for all.
No copays.
TEH HORROR!!!
Not to air our dirty laundry for our southern neighbours but we have some good and some really sucky health care here. It varies a lot by region (southern and urban areas have much better care than northern and indigenous communities) and by province (Ontario, Alberta, pretty good. Others? Not so much). On the one hand, that's not much different from the US. On the other hand, I haven't been able to find a primary care physician.
That being said, social medicine is a social compact. You do things for the good of the whole. That's not always comfortable but it's fair. You can tell a lot about a country by its poor. Our poor look a lot better than yours. In this economy, the middle class are increasingly poor. Here they have a lot better access. And no co-pays or pre-approvals or paperwork or denials for pre-existing conditions.
(Um, one of our big problem is the US, which attracts a lot of our doctors. Including the psychiatrists, I guess...)
I just sent an email to the Manhattan Institute, where Gratzer works.
I just expressed my disgust at what I saw in that video and told them of some of my experiences here in the States as well as good experiences when I lived and worked in Europe.
I told them there seems to be a lot of misinformation from people like Gratzer.
I am so disgusted. I'm going to bed!
This little asshole is just mad because the six figure wingnut think tank welfare check he gets to spread lies and disinformation, is being challenged on its merits, or lack thereof.
He probably has a really expensive looking folder with all sorts of made up bullshit to spring on everyone, and here is Kucinich not having any of it.
I am so sick of these rightwing Orwellean fact assassins being called in as some sort of experts, when they are nothing but paid liars for super rich sociopath's.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
After watching the video clip here, I had to see if there was more on YouTube of David Gratzer's (lack of) testimony. One clip I saw lasted an hour, where he was being questioned, along with a few of panelists. In everything he had to say he was evasive. Then I saw a clip where he was being asked questions by Congressman Charles Rangel. Congressman Rangel asked Cratzer, what would be needed to make a public healthcare option fair with the corporate healthcare industry? Gratzer's response was, to scrap price controls. He later complained that Medicare pays doctors only a fraction of what they make from non-Medicare patients. Then he made the statement that doctors should make a fair wage. That's very interesting since he doesn't believe in a fair wage for the working poor.
It's quite clear that like most conservatives, Dr Dickhead's core beliefs focus on creating more wealth for the wealthy, and more poverty for the poor. It would be karma if someday that greedy little bastard's wife divorced him, and got half of everything he owns.
Did you hear Gratzer say my position is respectable?
What bullshit! Their is nothing respectable about what he and the insurance companies are doing. This is the kind of people we have let loose on the country.
People without honor, without honesty, people with a sense of intitlement. You can check it out and see that each and everyone of the people that are against single payer health care are either people that have never been seriously ill, people that have more money then they know what to do with it, or making money from the health care debacle we have been experiencing in America.
republicanism is a mental illness!
is among the best in the world. People always have and always will seek out the specialists at the Mayo Clinic, Sloan-Kettering, etc. Just because someone comes here from a nation with national healthcare does not mean that healthcare system is no good.
about the medicine aspect of it, it's the profit driven part like big pharma and insurance that are destroying US healthcare.
When a drug company takes a natural substance used in vitamin b6 for lowering glucose levels in your blood, and locks access to it up for profit, there is something wrong with this picture.
http://www.naturalnews.com/025606.html
... not medical reform.
Three overrated things in our country:
1. Extramarital sex
2. Home cooking
3. The Mayo Clinic
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Susie,
My hat is off to you. Keep whittling away and push the Single-Payer aspect as opposed to "The Public Option".
With Wendell Potter's coming out on Moyers, we, as true Progressives, must push for the only viable answer.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/wa...
I'm watching it now. Just heard that two insurance lobbyists are former chief of staffs for Max Baucus (D-MT), coming back to their old boss to formulate policy.
Influence peddling/corporate lobbying = The Core Problem
This phoney expert had his rehearsed lines.
Dennis Kucinich you caught him and made
him look like the fool he is!
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I am an American living in Canada the last few years. Yes, everyone is "covered" by health insurance here, but the stories you hear about having to wait are not myths. The system, at least here in BC, works like an HMO. You must have a primary care physician before you can proceed to get any other kind of care. At this point, tens of thousands of Canadians cannot get a primary care physician because there are not enough to go around. When a new doctor shows up on the scene, his or her practice fills up within hours. It can be months before another doctor is taking new patients. And that's in the cities. If you happen to live in a rural area, forget it.
The system here in BC is ripe for abuse. Doctors receive a very small fee for each patient seen. Because it's so small, a patient is lucky to get 15 minutes. Doctors receive an additional fee if they prescribe a drug. It's not uncommon for doctors to schedule several patients in different rooms at the same time and hand out unnecessary or inappropriate prescriptions in those 15 minute (or less) sessions, just to make enough money to survive. One hears whispers about "kickbacks" from the drug companies. Some clinics are well know as places to get your prescriptions refilled without questions.
The waits to see specialists are not exaggerated either. For every person sent to the Mayo clinic for some specialized treatment, hundreds wait in limbo, unsure if they will ever get treatment.
Even the local politicians agree the system is not working. See http://www.timescolonist.com/health/Europe+an....
I am all for universal health care coverage. But, take it from someone with first hand experience whose only agenda is getting decent health care for myself. Please don't copy the Canadian system.
"Would you like to see my mask?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCELYhYlLtU
My bad.
Memo to self; read first, react later....
I would love to see a full blown exposure of the Manhattan Institute. It was founded by the Rockerfellers as an eugenist think thank. Giuliani used books like 'Broken Windows' produced by the Manhattan Institute to clean up NYC by eliminating the poor & ethic races, with a goal of only having to rule the rich & white. Of course they're only going to take a position that the lower classes shouldn't be covered at all. Why were they even invited to speak?
This doctor is a fine example of how people will lie to your face for money!
I can't begin to tell you how annoying it is to hear Americans and Canadians slagging the Canadian universal health-care system, making comparisons to the Mayo Clinic, the wait times in Canadian hospitals, etc etc., in order to disparage health care reform in the US- whether it is for a 'public option' or a single payer system.
The fact is, that almost one and a half times the entire population of Canada is without health insurance in the US. And those that do have coverage are a sneeze away from losing it (if you lose your job for instance) or having your treatment/diagnostic DENIED/RESCINDED by yer HMO. So while you're telling us how bad the waiting times are to get treated in Canada, HOW LONG IS MY WAIT TIME IN THE US IF I DON'T HAVE COVERAGE?!!??!!!????
And I don't give a rat's ass about how great and absolutely first rate our healthcare is in the US. The Mayo Clinic, blah, blah, blah, the King of Jordan and every other billionaire around the world flock to American hospitals to get treated, blah, blah blah... That's talk for some other planet as far as I am concerned. Would Cigna, Blue Cross, or whomever approve you to go to one of these world-reknown treatment centers? WHY EVEN MENTION IT IF ITS NOT AN OPTION FOR THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WHO YEARN FOR HEALTH-CARE REFORM?
If you're living in Canada, then I congratulate you and die with envy for your situation. Waiting 6 hours, 6 weeks, 6 months or even 6 years for treatment is still a helluva lot better than being (one of 50 million) without any health insurance here.
So please take your 'I hate to rain on your parade but Canada's system is broken' comments and shove it where the sun don't shine. Who says we gotta copy Canada?
One of the most intelligent comments I have read here is by the Canadian medical professor who wrote above (DrMarkI): "Single payer is the only way to go. And when you go for it, don't pattern yours' on Canada's system. Instead, glean the best aspects of all of the single payer systems of the world, make sure that you put adequate funding and oversight in place, and make it the model for the world to follow."
In the meantime, I would like to have Canadian Healthcare. Universal single payer coverage, no matter how long the wait, is still miles better than what the ordinary working person in the US has got for health care!!!.
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