Obama Team Say They Were 'Caught Off Guard' by Right-Wing Healthcare Tsunami
Are the Obama people really that dumb? They were "surprised," "caught off guard" by the massive dirtstorm unleashed on healthcare reform?
These are the geniuses of 11-dimensional chess? Puhleeze. I think they've started to believe their own press. Obama the Healer, Obama the Post-Racial Lincoln. What a bunch of damned dopes.
Dick Polman, the Philadelphia Inquirer political reporter, is also astounded at just how unprepared Team Obama was for the attacks on healthcare reform:
During the 1993-4 health care reform battle, the Clinton White House was outmaneuvered by the Republican right and their corporate allies, who swayed the electorate with all kinds of devious hyperbole. And, more recently, in the 2004 presidential race, John Kerry and his advisers sat back and did nothing for three crucial summer weeks, absolutely convinced that voters would never believe the Swift Boat attacks on his Vietnam record. That strategy worked out pretty well.
And now we have the Obama people, waking up to the idea that maybe it's not politically wise to sit mute and allow themselves to be tarred as fascists who would euthanize granny, ration health care, and slash Medicare benefits. (It's priceless to hear the Republicans portraying themselves as the defenders of Medicare, given the fact that, if they had been in charge back in 1965, they never would have enacted Medicare in the first place. But I digress.)
The Republican right understands the power of the visceral; it knows how to stoke emotions at the expense of civility. This is not exactly a fresh observation, yet it's amazing how flat-footed Democrats seem always to discover it anew. They seem forever convinced that the power of high ideals should be sufficient for victory - that, in the present case, Americans should simply be convinced, on the merits, that health care reform is preferable to the dysfunctional status quo. As Howard Paster, Clinton's health care guy in 1993, told The Times this morning, "The expectation (among the Obama people) was that things have gotten so bad in the last 16 years that there would be a consensus on the need to act this time."
But that's not how the other team plays the game. Indeed, numerous Democratic strategists and commentators have been trying to make this point for a long time. A couple years ago, for instance, radio host and ex-California Democratic chairman Bill Press offered this advise to his brethren: "In politics, if somebody slaps you on the cheek, you punch him in the nose. Then you punch him in the gut. Then you kick him in the groin. Then you crack a chair over his head. Then, just to make sure, you jump up and down on top of him with both feet...The only way to win is to fight back. Hard and tough. If they don't, they don't deserve to win."
Press was characteristically a tad over the top, but his basic point was that Democrats should stop being surprised to learn that politics ain't beanbag. This is not to suggest that Obama should retaliate by retailing lies equal in virulence to those being spewed by his opponents; if he was to conduct himself as his opponents are doing, he would be promptly attacked for failing to change the tone in Washington.
His best option is to do what he probably should have done months ago: find an attractively repeatable health reform pitch that can fit on a bumper sticker, something that can appeal to positive emotions. (Perhaps if Obama had done that during the spring, he could have at least partially preempted the nabobs of negativity.) Indeed, there are reports today that Obama will now pitch his plan as a vehicle for ending unfair insurance practices, for protecting the millions of Americans who have pre-existing health conditions.
Maybe a positive emotional pitch can still work - unless it is too little, too late, and insufficient weaponry for an alley fight.
...we've been putting up with just for any reform at all, sure seems like we could just as well be fighting for single payer all this time.
Health reform has turn into a Health Give-a-way to the Health Empire.
American citizens never get a seat at the table to discuss the issues & policies of legislation which we pay for and effect us..
You really do not believe the Baccus , Bush , Obama , Pelosi , Reid , Emanuel , blue dogs , Centrists or any of the republicans have a concern about their health insurance or payment do you..
H... no but they are the ones which take the funds and vote for a policy that means life and death to us..
I say this from the start and still say the same thing, they had no intentions of giving us a public option which the private health companies had to complete against.
This has been about what Obama stated about McCain ,,, Bait and switch...
********************
During the President campaign Obama said ,,, McCain health care plan is a bait and switch,, saying the financial Crisis in not a reason to forgo fixing the nation's health system.. Obama called McCain's health care proposal out of touch with American..
Well it looks as if the way the blue dogs and republicans have cut and paste to the health reform bill now it is the same bait and switch which Obama claim McCain's was..
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The very definition of "conservative" is "opposing change".
Progressives succeed through progress.
Conservatives succeed by preventing progress.
What's good for the country and its people has absolutely nothing to do with anything. As far as these people are concerned, they win by preventing the progressives from succeeding.
trying to conserve? Their fortunes (I've got mine, now you get yours, and I won't help you), their perks, their cushy jobs, their comfort? If it were up to the conservatives, there wouldn't be women or minorities voting, or civil rights laws, or anyone other than white mails running the country (into the ground)
Vote these ... ..... out of office... We need to do more investigation into finding REAL democrats to replace these Blue Dogs , Centrist and other which have arrogantly stated that they are moving to the center right and forget about the left.
Stop given funds and you support for these candidates which are being supported by the very democrats which are voting against our policies and kissing the ... of the republicans..
Have you not notice that our bitching to these phonies has not brought about any change..
Obama's change and transparent government has to be in another dimension , because if anything the censorship and BS has been stepped up a notch;;
We just bitch and never stop a campaign to pick , support and fund a our choice of a candidate..
They no longer have any concern about us or our wishes so why in the .... do we keep voting into office the same of bunch of crooks..
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Tell it!
...if you can't be bothered to look in the first place.
Heathcarecare reform? What Obama and Crew are proposing will not reform healthcare in this country by one iota. It isn't even reforming the insurance racketeers, just giving them an even larger number of suckers that they can prey upon. He's giving the conservatives/corporatist prostitutes every possible thing they could want. It is a complete screwing of the American people. "Reforming" the insurance and drug industries is joke. The people who run these rackets are amoral socio/psychopaths. Never in the hostory of humanity has a sociopath or psychopath been truly reformed or rehabilitated. It doesn't happen. These business entities are the arch sociopaths of the business world, andtime will show that there is no reforming them either.
This guy has so lost my vote in 2012. It's time to start looking for primary challengers for 2012, somebody who knows the difference between the People and the corporations, somebody with a demonstrated record of standing up for anything that advances the well-being of the People. It sure as hell isn't Mr. Obama. Dean, Kucinich, Sanders, Gravel, Waters, there's plenty to choose from.
Couldn't of said it better myself. I've already stopped waiting for the gloves to come off.
... ALWAYS FLATFOOTED... inevitably they bring knives to a gun fight!
Where Democrats are always flatfooted is in figuring out how to use the news media, which the Republicans have down pat. The TV news shows and channels are absolutely addicted to controversy and provocative video.
These corporate goons who are controlling the circus at the town halls know that the newsies can absolutely be counted on to show the video on an endless loop and to make a few thousand people look like a huge, angry mob of mainstream Americans democratically voicing their opposition to a terrible idea. And then the pundits and "experts" start appearing to question whether Obama has lost control of the issue and they all start echoing this conventional "wisdom" until it looks like the whole country is against health care reform.
This is what starts swaying people to turn against it. If it was just a few thousand people showing up at town halls, it's pretty meaningless. It's when the news media starts giving it weight and power and pretending that these are average Americans and not a bunch of fools who are part of a big scam orchestrated by corporate lobbyists, and when they put the videos on repeat and give voice to these goons... that's where the meat of this is. You've got to be as good as the Republicans at the showmanship. Democrats are always at a disadvantage when trying to fight people on the other side who have no morals or ethics and will win at any cost.
Do not even know way a knife is or what if means to fight for what is right..
I am so d... sick of hearing about being bi-partisan and letting the republicans put their policies into the democrat legislations I could throw up..
They republicans are again getting their corrupted policies into the legislation and I thought this is what we voted AGAINST in 2006 and 2008..
I guess the democrats just do not get it or better yet they really don't give a d....
Maybe we should check into the independent party and see if they have anymore Bernie Sanders to elect in the place of the democrat corporate republican sellout candidates..
Bernie Sanders looks as good as Kucinich and some other democrats.. But of course Kucinich has been censored by the democrats and the news media from reporting his statements...
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That's why I voted McKinney over Obama. Support an independent party that actually cares about humans that don't have jobs as lobbyists. Also why I voted Kucinich in the primaries. It may be ideals over reality, but if more people voted with ideals on the progressive side over practicality we might actually get some progressive leaders.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Some independents push too far trying to kill ALL social programs.. We as a nation can not exit with no protection to the weak , sick and people THAT WORK very hard and have lost everything due to actions beyond their control..
I believe that Bernie Sanders is a very strong and balanced individual which puts his country and citizens first. I also believe his is UN-corruptible... Of course I do not know what would happen if Cheney's hit-squad threaten his family..
I would vote for an independent in a second if they records were fully intact and they had enough exposure to carry enough votes for a possible win..
Kucinich is another person which seems to fight very hard for us. To show how the democrats treat the types of actions they try to stop his reelection bid in 2008... The same as they did for Lamond against Lieberman as an ""INDEPENDENT??? never knew how Lieberman got his name on the independent ticket..
Notice that Lieberman is keeping quiet now , mostly because his re-election bid in coming up in 2010.
Then Hillary's personal had Caroline Kennedy to pull her name from her bid of Hillary's senate seat and it was given to a democrat republican , which was of Emanuel's Choice
I believe the government should be in charge of social programs ,, but they should keep their d... fingers out of the funds like the Social Security as Bush and others did to use for programs they wish...
When Bush took office in 2001 this is what Clinton whether you like him or not accomplished..
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Sean Connery knew - Barack needs to to go to his Chicago roots.
Just Maybe Obama has more ties to the republican policies than that of which we need..
Obama has been a very large disappointment to me. I believe Obama by now has to know his policies are falling way to the right of the center as Emanuel wishes..
When Obama pick Emanuel as his top advisory , I knew right then we were in deep trouble..
Emanuel must have lost his finger by using it too many times,, but the rumer is that he lost it working in a fast food if that has any truth to it...
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May still be lodged in an unnamed orifice. I want to know where the end of the line is to give this guy a finger dislodging kick. Mr. President, you and we deserve better.
... by playing for the wrong team..the corporations.
They still have not recovered. Mr President and your people: you are still taking a pocket knife to a gun fight. These people don't play.
We have two parties, a Right Wing Party and an Ultra Right Wing Party.
When Big Insurance supports your plan, Big Pharma supports your plan, and the AMA supports your plan, it because their 'support' has been purchased at the expense of the commonweal.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Aint' that the truth!
n/t
Personally, I would call them the nutjob-fascist party and the milquetoast-moderate party.
I'm really getting burned out on all of this. I'm tired of fighting for a party that ends up bending over or caving in. I'm sick of being told to hush up and not be so "shrill", only to have everyone find out later (but never acknowledge) that we were right the whole time. It's past time for the dems to either start listening to the progressives or fold up their tents and turn it over to a new party that will.
But started off as soon as the election was over,,,, talking about Picking Republicans for their cabinet...
If you remember most of them made a fool of Obama...
I thought the election was every as Obama say .... Americans wanted a change not the same old BS as the Bush and Cheney Administration,,, but all we are receiving is the same old BS..
If the health policies details were make public as to WHAT THEY WERE PLANNING on putting in the bill instead of saying it was over a 1,000 pages and they still did not know which details would be used.
The only items which they sound sure are;;and the public option would be dropped..
You will have to buy insurance......They are taking the public option off the table...They are cutting the Medicare program by $150,000,000....The cuts are tests that the doctor would ask for...the types of prescription drugs you can receive...They most likely will not tax the wealthy for extra money..... They may tax the middleclass...and most people which have insurance will be given health care free..Making sure that pre-conditions does not stop you from having insurance.
Well I bet you one thing....The very person making these rules will not be denied any of the above services....
Personally I believe this health reform should be voted on by the very people which will be forced to pay for it and the ones effected by the bill...
Four scores and seven years ago a constitution was created for our country to be run...By the people...For the people......&...Of the people ......Now all this has gone to h.... and the word "people" has been replaced by the word "Global Empire""..
None
But started off as soon as the election was over,,,, talking about Picking Republicans for their cabinet...
If you remember most of them made a fool of Obama...
I thought the election was every as Obama say .... Americans wanted a change not the same old BS as the Bush and Cheney Administration,,, but all we are receiving is the same old BS..
If the health policies details were make public as to WHAT THEY WERE PLANNING on putting in the bill instead of saying it was over a 1,000 pages and they still did not know which details would be used.
The only items which they sound sure are;;and the public option would be dropped..
You will have to buy insurance......They are taking the public option off the table...They are cutting the Medicare program by $150,000,000....The cuts are tests that the doctor would ask for...the types of prescription drugs you can receive...They most likely will not tax the wealthy for extra money..... They may tax the middleclass...and most people which have insurance will be given health care free..Making sure that pre-conditions does not stop you from having insurance.
Well I bet you one thing....The very person making these rules will not be denied any of the above services....
Personally I believe this health reform should be voted on by the very people which will be forced to pay for it and the ones effected by the bill...
Four scores and seven years ago a constitution was created for our country to be run...By the people...For the people......&...Of the people ......Now all this has gone to h.... and the word "people" has been replaced by the word "Global Empire""..
None
What a big suprise. The Democrats always play soft. We never stand up before it too late. The current Democrats are concerned that the Republicans won't like them I suppose. I want a Democratic Party that will fight these right-wing assholes for all they are worth, but that won't happen any time soon I afraid. They put us here after years of nothing but BS, and everytime I see one of them I tell them so. That usually shuts them up.
Obama , Emanuel and the democrats have "stated" that they wish to forget the left progressive and move toward the republican's policies and make the democrat ""their"" party a center right party...
So arrogantly what they are really stating , the progressive will vote for them no matter what , so they are reaching for the republican's vote..
Another item , why have they never fixed the electronic voting fraud?? Do they wish to use it to make sure their choice for a candidate is picked in the democrat primary in case we vote for one to replace their choice
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Here's a tip for you: Always consider who your audience is, and don't ever assume anything.
I'm inclined to agree. "Shocking! Utterly Shocking!"
The Dems will not be able to get their message thru the Media Screen, unless Obama drew a 6-shooter and blasted Grassley. THAT would make them sit up!
It'd wake them up and prove he's not soft on gun rights.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
with this mob, nice guys finish last. I'm with Bill Press. Show 'em who won the election, for Pete's sake!!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Obama is showing us who won the election.
he is.
First Obama promises change.
Then he invites all the "Stakeholders" to the table to cut a deal. "Stakeholders" meaning Health Insurance execs, Drug Company execs, etc. THUS alienating every progressive and populist, left wing and right.
Then he is SHOCKED that the "StakeHolders" finance and provide propaganda to the right wing thugs to derail the deal he cut with the DEVIL HIMSELF.
Now he stands alone in the middle, deserted by the left and the right.
BUT .. the fact is .. Obama DOES NOT GET TO CHOOSE.
CONGRESS CHOOSES.
Support HR676 - "Medicare For All."
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
does not mean he was. We will be better off with what we have now, then the give-a-ways to the insurance companies that are coming. Single payer or nothing.
Just so you know - HR676 is Single Payer.
.. provides basic medical care for all US residents.
.. makes it ILLEGAL for Insurance Companies to sell an insurance package that covers basic medical care. (Great!)
.. mandates bulk procurement of pharmaceuticals.
.. etc etc etc.
H.R.676 Summary:
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
They either slip HR676 under the table in the dead of night and pass it, or this was all by design to get rid of 676
to love? Sounds reasonable to me, but then I'm a borderline socialist!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
How is one a borderline socialist?
There are two classes of people in the class struggle.
The Owners who hide behind their totalitarian regimes of the Corporation. There is a hierarchy but that is the nature of totalitarianism.
Those people in the hierarchy believe in the Corporation.
Then there is everyone else.
Some of those people are duped by the Owners into thinking that their enemies are the other members of the lower class who try to organize against the Owners.
This is a constant propaganda campaign.
It takes place in every venue, the movies, publications, the electronic media. Everywhere they can gain access to, they are trying to tell you:
You are consumer, you are not a citizen, you are not a member of a society.
Through personal responsibility and consumption you will be free.
Because the propaganda is so pervasive and pernicious, we have a society of people whose eyes are bulging from their heads.
They have lost nearly every sense of the social nature of culture.
Be an unapologetic socialist.
I am.
I am for the social nature of culture. NOT, for the sole advancement of the individual.
When peak oil, peak energy, peak ecology and peak capitalism all come crashing down at the same time, we are going to retrace our steps back through the energy age.
To the time when the only energy was human and animal.
We will either have a new community of life or we will have neo feudalism.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
The only thing I would change.
Big Insurance, Big Pharma and the AMA are for the most part sitting pretty where they are at.
Though there are tensions of course, they would, for the most part prefer that NOTHING that is sold as 'Reform' actually takes place.
However, if something DOES happen, they want the DEAL to favor them.
The way it is going, they are going to be happy either way.
HR 676 is the best that is out there. If it were up to me we would have a full socialized system a la the VA plus. Full National Health.
But then, I am just a little 'ol commie.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
if big pharma is happy with something, that usually makes me suspicious.
Now they say they support BHO? That is because the fix is in for them.
I'd prefer fully nationalized health care too.
Finland has it.
The Truth about Socialized Medicine
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
that would benefit the insurance companies to our detriment. Like mandatory coverage. That is completely wrong. At least we know where the devils reside now. I am not saying give up the fight. Not at all. Just step back for a while.
You're spot on, Susie. But you left out a huge piece of this puzzle. It's not just that the Obama people didn't anticipate this kind of a wing-nut blowback. It's that they didn't prepare the roots, their supporters from the campaign, to help them in this fight that was totally predicted by the roots but denied by the Obama people. Their silence last spring, during the single-payer-off-the-table travesty, when they chose to not help the roots organize around making sure that all positions were included in those Baucus hearings, has resulted in the roots not being there now to help them pass a piece of legislation that is 100% crafted by the private insurance industry and Big Pharma.
Why should the roots come out now and passionately defend any legislation from which their positions were blacklisted?!
Let's hope the Obama people have learned their lesson on this one, because we have a lot of fights coming up, and we need the Obama people to smarten up and stop using us only when it suits the DNC and Rahm Emanuel.
Come on. It's their spin. By acting all surprised, it elevates the behaviors of the teabaggers/birthers in the minds of the electorate. And I remember the health reform efforts of Clinton, and not once did I see any signs about Nazism, etc. So, in one sense, yes I can understand how they got caught off guard.
Seriously, did you think there would be guns brought to town hall meetings?
If I had wanted cream and sugar why order the damn coffee?
Seriously, did you think there would be guns brought to town hall meetings?
Yes.
I not only never thought guns would be brought to town hall meetings, I never thought they would be allowed.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Being allowed is the part I didn't expect.
thats the other thing that strikes me as suspicious.
They do not want us out there demonstrating, because we would make sense.
News Alert: Lawrence O'Donnell is filling in for Matthews on "Hardball" tonight. He interviewed that 36 year old woman who was whining at Specter's TH Meeting yesterday. Please allow me to introduce one of the stupidest and most inept interviewees that have ever appeared on TV. Ladies and Gentlemen! I give you the Queen of Idiots, Katy Abram.
find her, catch her, and then mount up in order to fight. No time for that. We are being handled. Face it. The Who's, "Won't Get Fooled Again" keeps going through my head, but being sung by Alvin and the Chipmunks in an entirely mocking tone.
Now it's going through my head too!
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
led these people to believe that they would be a "permanent majority." Seems like that didn't happen, and that was after the Clinton administration. If it had been promised to them before Clinton, you would have seen the same things that you do now. Doesn't really matter, though, as they only care that we do not unite against them and the corporate rule.
The only thing that surprises me is that they haven't been discharged yet.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
The Obama team probably thought some evolution had occured since the days of Clinton. They simply over estimated the mentality of the right. When you run in a circle of intelligent people sometimes you forget how fu*king backward and stupid other parts of the country really are. It is so apparent that health care needs reform that they thought that was obvious to everyone seeing as how everyone would benefit from it.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
that no evolution had occurred since the days when Hillary Clinton tried to get something done in the '90s.
They bent over for big Pharma and the for-profit insurance companies - the same folks who defeated Clinton.
You can't make me believe that they thought the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance companies "evolved".
Obama took money from them for his campaign. No evolution there either.
The whole thing is one big charade.
Meanwhile - still spending a million a minute for the wars while we tear each other apart for nothing.
By evolution I was referring to the general populace.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Is it possible for a person who doesn't believe in evolution to actually evolve against their will?
Wing-nuts certainly avoid broadening their horizons.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
I believe they do evolve they just refuse to use what they gain or they don't know how.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
but the people may in fact be the one sector that has evolved.
It's the corporations and the politicians who have not.
The "owners?" That gives one a very good insight into the major problem.
we are portrayed as the enemy? Backwards just begins to describe the stupidity.
the "inferior," poorer, dumber (less educated,anyway), fatter, slower, uglier wing of the Party of Property. The Pukes are the seniors. They get away with shit that the 'juniors' don't have the status to pull off.
The Dims exist to make it look that there is a "party" for all those of us, that somebody in Government gives a runny shit about 'the People."
Which is, of course, a lie.
BOTH "parties" (as Alice notes above and I have remarked a thousand times) owe their allegiances to the Owners: the elites, oligarchs, gthe landlords, property owners, bankers, etc who actually determine what happens in the country and the world...
Dims get "pwnmed" by the Pukes the same way the acne-faced, nose-pickers in high School were owned by the rich, popular kids.
it's the identical dynamic...
Kid: "Go punch that other kid in the face!"
Dim: "Why would I want to do that?"
Kid: "I'll give you a nickel!"
Dim: "But I might hurt the kid!"
Kid: "Hey other kid, punch this kid in the face!"
Puke: "OK!" (SMACK)
Kid: "I'll give you a nickel to punch him again..."
Puke: "OK!" (SMACK)
the ruling class here.
.
that TeamObama went at this fight underprepared, fighting from the middle, etc.
The TeamObama reality is more likely "lets make it look like we put up one heck of a fight", "get some capitulations from the insurance industry" (that were not profitable anyways), call it a reform success, and of course, claim credit.
The fight has only begun, people.
That supports what progressives have largely known for a very long time - that the Obama administration had their heads up their asses on the health care issue. We warned them - but it didn't help - they're WAY to smart for the progressives that got them elected.
*
I didn't vote for any Democrat. I am a socialist.
How is your brother?
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
He's seeing a doctor that sees patients twice a week after hours - for no charge. He helped him get one of his medications free through the pharmaceutical company's charity program. The other costs him $600 a month and he's trying to find a way to get it cheaper. The doctor just wrote him a prescription for oxygen and he'll be using a portable machine that our deceased uncle bought for himself when he needed it.
He still has no help. No SS disability - no public aid, no health insurance.
*
think that was the case. They were kissing the asses of the insurance companies. For money. Isn't that prostitution?
I don't care a pile of taurine metabolic byproducts that they won't like it. They never cared about anyone except themselves so why try to talk with them. They were never willing to compromise on anything so why try.
Plus...
I don't think that they really care.
How can you be so arrogant to assert the following:
"These are the geniuses of 11-dimensional chess? Puhleeze. I think they've started to believe their own press. Obama the Healer, Obama the Post-Racial Lincoln. What a bunch of damned dopes."
The fact is, the conservative movement has never been so creative at institutionalizing fear, and rational, smart people can be caught off guard. This is not 1993, this is the era of Beck and Palin. Who could have anticipated the likes of those goons?
Get off your high-horse and back Obama.
Thanks for putting this into words. I was sitting thinking how to phrase my thoughts and then I read your comment.
The right wing has been the party of NO from day one but now they are, in addition to being creative, violent. How could anyone really predict news anchors and commentators (on Fox)would call for something just short of assassination---that is what the right is doing. It is unheard of to treat a president like this, really can anyone remember a time that this was allowed.
Rather than be "shocked" that the Obama people were unprepared for this backlash, how about being SHOCKED AND OUTRAGED that an American president is being treated like dirt.
John Dewey
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I agree with you. I wouldn't have anticipated the shit we see happening today. How could anyone have thought that, like you said, tv personalities could get away with using just about every word except "assassination" when talking to the public. How could anyone have anticipated that in this awful economic time anyone would say no to getting help with their health costs? Sure, we all knew some racial backlash was coming but what else came with it is an unwanted surprise.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
on this matter, today...
When anyone new moves into my neighborhood, I welcome them, no matter what they look like.
It greatly surprises some.
Some I end up liking more than others, but I have never been able to judge that book by the cover.
I would like to lift all of them up.
This business about 'race' was invented by the Owners way, way back.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
insurance reform is not the biggest problem we face?
Those who did not expect this have either never lived in a Red-zone of the nation or are incredibly optimistic. In the primaries I didn't much care for Obama or Clinton but I can guarantee that Hillary would have never underestimated the dirty tricks the right-wing would pull out of their butts to smear any attempt at helping the less fortunate. That said, she's still a generic Democratic centrist who loves big corporations so there'd be little policy difference between her and Obama.
On a side note, is there anything anyone here recommends other thant the usual letters to reps that we little citizens can do to help fight for our health and well-being against the Democratically failing administration and it's Republican fear-monger allies?
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
At least this makes information available to those who need to know it, but won't get it from TV. Local newspapers are more likely to publish your letters than the big ones are, and that is good. Maybe if we give people alternatives to think about, they will think about it. Especially the elderly, who do get confused and frightened. This is unconscionable, in my opinion. Scaring old people. Dirty cold hearted bastards. I have a neighbor in her 80's who won't even go out of her house. Her grandchildren bring her what she needs to survive.
Yeah, I am not discouraged by Obama, I am discouraged more by the tone of the comments on this page. It's easy to see why it's so hard to have a progressive agenda in this country, when I read this garbage.
they say is "garbage?" GFY, pal. It's the common goal that counts, not how you get there.
I did, and for what?
I held my nose and gave him my vote, against my better judgment.
I held my tongue when his "team" included many who I believe are a big part of our problems. (Emmanuel, Summers, Geither...)
I made excuses when Gitmo wasn't immediately closed, and US troops were not pulled from Iraq and Afghanistan.
I believed Obama when he said he was going to make sure every American had access to healthcare.
Because I do not see many improvements over the previous administration, I believe I have suspended disbelief long enough.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
You're as bad as the right wing: after 6 months in office you declare him a failure. Although I don't know you, I suspect you were too hopeful that change would come overnight, and without deals with the devil.
I look at your list and I see nothing that would justify abandoning this president at this time.
What are you going to do then, is exactly the mindset that got me to where I am now.
I got an invitation to be an official delegate at the Dem convention this fall, I am thinking the best thing for me to do is decline, and focus my efforts on the Greens.
Edit: Obama apologists need to stop using the "six month" excuse because he has been president for seven months now and that number will grow every month.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
The conservative movement will be happy to hear this.
Seriously, I really need to question your commitment to serious change, That list of 'atrocities' that you put forth is really light weight. I am not saying Obama has not made mistakes, but they were tactical not strategic. We still has a shot at a progressive agenda. No one said it would be easy to turn around 8 years of destroying the social fabric of this nation.
The sad truth is that political results require deals with the devil.
What results would you anticipate with that?
This is what I see:
We have the same NEW FISA. Unconstitutional surveillance still going on.
We have the same CIA.
The same MIC.
He did cut the F-22, but at the same time 3 times the savings was added in another section. Another colossally bloated 'Defense' bill. Equal to the rest of the world together. Designed for enemies that do not exist.
The same Big Pharma, he has just cut them a big deal.
The same Big Insurance, they're happy.
The same NAFTA, shafta, he said he would but now he says he won't re-negotiate it..
The same Banksters with Beaucoup de
BillionsTrillions of Bailouts. That is the one that will come back and break the bank. The same crooks are in place, the same phony accounting is going on and the catastrophe is going to hit again. No investigations or prosecutions of the rampant runaway criminality on Wall Street.Gitmo is still open, Iraq is yet to unwind, Afghanistan is being ramped up and Pakistan is a war they didn't even bother to seek authorization on.
No prosecution for war crimes or torture.
And he is ready to blow the tops off of mountains.
Basically, it is business as usual.
I didn't expect anything different so I didn't vote for him.
That means that he hasn't let me down. He has done exactly as I expected.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Like they give a crap!
I did not use the word atrocities to describe what I consider Obama failings. I see it as his failure to do what he said he was going to do. Change you can believe in was the promise, remember? Don't see it.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
is that Obama has sold us out.
He did so years ago. (Remember that he actually campaigned for Lieberman!)
He is not pursuing a progressive agenda. Smell the coffee.
"The sad truth is that political results require deals with the devil"
Dude, if you dance with the devil, you get your feet stepped on....every time.
You are talking "pragmatism". It's a bullshit rationalization for choosing fleeting expedients of the moment in lieu of principles. It never works. Every time we do this as a nation, it just causes more problems that end up being shoved off on future generations to solve. It isn't smart. It isn't moral. All the pragmatists do by forever choosing the easy way out is show that they are unprincipled, and by showing that, the only thing they are really demonstrating is that they are unworthy of trust.
make anyone take your nasty accusatory invective seriously, Bob.
You're as bad as the right wing: after 6 months in office you declare him a failure. Although I don't know you, I suspect you were too hopeful that change would come overnight, and without deals with the devil.
I look at your list and I see nothing that would justify abandoning this president at this time.
You see nothing...
an Obama staffer?
Who could have imagined they would fly planes into buildings
President Obama the right wing are zealots. While I can see that given the nature of the economy and what it has done to people you could think the populace would be open to reform. Unfortunately these people are the American Taliban so please stop underestimating them (if you words are geniune that is).
Maybe from now on they'll always remember cardinal rule numero uno:
NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS OR REPUBLICANS.
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?" - General Jack D. Ripper
I mean, how many times do they have to cave in to Republican demands, still get no Republican votes and get called Socialist traitors by their bipartisan comrades before they learn.
A great man once said, "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
they did the same crap in the election, they are now turning it up to eleven.... all lies all the time.
Very old procedure. Proper approach when dealing with authoritarians in general.
This particular version has been credited to Germanicus Caesar.
And I've applied it in many fistfights when growing up down in Texas.
Rule #1: Avoid the fight if at all possible
Rule #2: If you must fight, fight to win
Rule #3: If you fight to win, you must absolutely be willing to kill the other person, if necessary
Rule #4: If you knock them down, don't let them back up...kick them in the face, then hit them with a 2x4, then pound their head into the pavement, then kick them in the groin, etc etc etc...
This has always worked well for me. It's a lesson Obama and his people need to apply to the TeaBaggin' Terrorists (aka Republicans).
"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?" - General Jack D. Ripper
Texas sounds like a barbaric place.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
n/t
Obama and Co are serving up what they want: a lame public option that doesn't threaten the Corporate Health Care.
"Medicare for All" is a simple plan that people can understand and get behind. When they push a muddled plan that know one is sure what it is or understands, I'm guessing that it's not an accident.
screwed.
I cannot believe they are this clueless. Anyone think that, perhaps, the Obama Camp might just want it to APPEAR as though they're fight'n for the common man with every intention of "blowing it" wink, wink, nudge, nudge?!
Corruption 101
Never put in writing what is best said on the telephone.
Never say on the telephone what is best said with a wink and a nod.
Obama talked a lot about health care, he wants to look like he is doing something.
He talked about a lot of things that sounded good.
He impressed me with his talk on FISA. After the primaries he changed his tune and I got off his bus.
There were others off his bus before then.
He said he would re-negotiate NAFTA. The first summit of the three just occurred and now he says he won't.
Another campaign pledge bites the dust.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
say no more squire!
probably closer to reality.
is called 'cynicism' by those who haven't got it. --GB Shaw...
I do not think it possible any longer to be too carefully observant...
Wouldn't suprise anyone here.
I heard a rumor that a lot of this crap was coming directly out of Rahms office...anyone starting to believe that yet?
Well it seems the right wants no part of reform and some on the left don't like what they see, so is the whole thing dead?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
No. I think it will pass when they come back from their break. If for no other reason to tell all the people at these townhalls to kiss our asses.
which covers viagra but not birth-control?
Do you really want to be mandated to buy insurance from private companies? Do you want to be mandated to buy drug coverage from them, too? Insurance companies already ration care, because they cancel coverage when major illnesses occur, and through preexisting condition rules. You can be sure that when the final bill is ready, you will not get to read it until it's a done deal. That doesn't really matter, though, as there won't be anything you can do about it.
On its face, his is such an absurdly corrupt concept that I am astonished that Obama has not been laughed to scorn. It's no different than compelling captive workers to shop at the company store, paying for substandard goods with company script. A system design to make sure that you never get out of hock to the company. WTF? This would codify and make mandatory the transfer of individual wealth into the coffers of the irredeemably corrupt. Astonishing. Just astonishing. what the hell, if they are going to take giant leaps backwards, while they're at it Obama and his Crew of Corporatist/Republican staff may well as include a provision to establish a guglag system of debtor prisons. you know, just to complete the picture.
People keep mentioning the Clinton's and their efforts at healthcare reform back in the '90s.
the administration that brought you Nafta, increased media consolidation, welfare "reform", and iraqi sanctions which was responsible for countless deaths.
i just don't know if these guys are serious at all about health care, or if its just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8hka0XK-O4
I was COMPLETELY caught off guard by these town hall shenanigans. Its really frightening to see all those dumb people in one room, cheering and applauding the stupid comments each other make. I was never expecting that in 100 years.
How can 20% of the country be so good at controlling the other 80%? The only way is if we let them.
with the help of that nasty corporate driven "librul media" it isn't THAT difficult to steer this population (AND, some of them vote!!) to nearly anything. I visualize smirking puppeteers.
In a sufficiently media-permeated society, the Owners don't have to actually kill that many people to make the rest wary enough to avoid giving offense...
In order to "not let them", we have to be willing and able to break some of them, cleverly, brutally, publicly, and permanently. That thins their numbers somewhat while deterring the stronger and cowing the weaker.
This requires a mindset that civilized people try to avoid, for excellent reasons.
This also requires a skillset that generally flourishes only amongst the more successful and longer-surviving psychopaths.
Because that "Bi-Partisan" thing, up to that point, had been going so well?? Puleeze.
for the Administration to start fixing Health Care by simply extending Medicare to people 55 & up, to people the Insurance companies don't want anyway, terminal, cancer-struck, permanently disabled. Also, they could have expanded SCHIP to more kids.
That would have been a good start. And if it worked well, more people would be demanding a piece of the Government Health Service Pie.
Easy as pie. Well, maybe not that easy, but compared to what we are enduring now! I ask you!
repeated time and again
is...
"SO WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!"
Some stuff you can't make up!
DO YOU HAVE AND FUCKING SUGGESTIONS?
left the progressives keep up the fight instead of telling them to tone it down against the fucking blue dogs.
keep calling the repuglyKKKans the racist murderers that they are instead of referring to them as "my esteemed collegue".
keep challenging the media do do their fucking jobs!
keep challenging the media do do their fucking jobs!
keep challenging the media do do their fucking jobs!
maybe have a fucking fistfight on the floor of the senate when they insult Senator Kennedy like they would have in japan.
stop shackling the progressive newbies like they've done with this year's freshman electorate.
Some stuff you can't make up!
they have been ready for this fight for years. i think they know "we the people/consumer" would/do want a commonsense/efficient/cost effective universal health care system. the obama administration and others figured who wouldn't want affordable health care. they underestimated the global elite/corporations and wallStreet. the u.s. is one of the few major countries where the health care insurance monopoly and big PhARMA have a lot of control by reducing competition and creating a non-bid environment for pharmaceuticals. the inefficient/costly/fragmented system we have is the money maker.
...I think they are part of them. Wholly owned ringers, willing participants, true believers. Because people's beliefs, allegiances and whatnot can only be determined by what they actually do versus what they say, I've got to conclude that Obama is not, and has no intention of, working for the people. The rest is just theatrical white noise and excuse making.
That this surprises anyone astounds me. The reason why I supported Hillary over Obama because Hillary is a proven fighter where Obama is a pussy. I'm glad Obama beat McCain (duh!) but jeez people, don't act all surprised when Obama acts like a naive newbie....BECAUSE HE IS ONE!
man i'm somewhat discouraged i thought president obama was trying/ has intentions of changing/reforming health care. i'm probably looking at this incorrectly. i'm thinking this is the biggest fight in the last 70 plus years in u.s. political history. i guess he doesn't walk on H2o.
Well, now that you're back down to earth....just remember that the Republicans don't walk on H2O,
they wallow in crap. And can't wait to have the power to drag the country back down into it.
There's more at stake than just the Health Care Bill. If you think I'll sit by and watch the Screamers and Tea Baggers win, just because my illlusions over Obama have been reduced (illusions I for one never really had), well then I'll fight Republicans, even if it's just Obama and me.
Ah memories. That would be the "nattering nabobs of negativity."
Looks and feels like like Obama and Co took up the mantle of the "pusillanimous pussyfooters"
me-oww!
the (R)emocrats are collegial with the Republicans. The democrats are hard to find there.
Some stuff you can't make up!
I think It's ironic though that the 2 phrases by Agnew are be acted out by both sides.
BTW those phases (with the ending of negativism, not negativity) were coined by speech writers Wm Safire, and Pat 'The Ginormous Catholic Asshole' Buchanan. Along with the lesser known phrase "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history". And his description of a group of opponents as "an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals," which is often fragmented.
me-oww!
it figures! he was quite a corrupt s-o-b.
Some stuff you can't make up!
with taxpayer money.
me-oww!
twittering twats…
oh never mind…
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
For goodness sake people. Quite whining. Hit 'em where it hurts. Right here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMUslY4T6uw
Well said trooperdave.
The people on the left NEED to quit bitchin' about Obama and the Democrats if we want to push this through. Our anger should be directed at the Republicans and their loony squads for the outright lies they push. This is what the Republicans want. Divide and Conquer.
Absolutely! I'll surely drink to that and I will. That's why I asked if the whole thing was dead. The right hates it and the left is fighting among themselves, so who is going to help push this forward.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
some on the left have been criticizing president obama on almost every health care move he has made. intentions and what can be done in a democratic/compromising/deal making model are two different realities. hey i want single payer health care but maybe this is he transition to the single payer system. both houses of the congress supposively represent the people. we have been fragmented/divided for years before obama.making this issue extra difficult. i just believe the reality is much different than the idea of idealism.
for smart people to underestimate what stupid people will believe.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
what stupid people will believe should consider a career in marketing.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Remember Selma? They got the ignan't people all riles up back then, too. Big change doesn't happen by gentle consent.
Ramn Emanual needs to take a lesson from the Karl Rove playbook. The administration needs to change the subject of the public’s attention off of healthcare reform.
It’s time to have Eric Holder announce a broad, aggressive, investigation of the Bush Administration, including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and Gonzales for war crimes and for illegal wiretapping. You could also start by indicting Rove, Miers, and Bolten and detaining them as Federal Guests until they are convicted in the firing of the US Attorneys or for politicizing Governor Siegelman's prosecution.
The press and the American public will only focus on one controversial issue at a time and it would suck the right wing nutjobs away from their scripted opposition to the healthcare reform. It would also have the secondary effect of energizing the more liberal wing who I think is beginning to feel pretty betrayed right now.
Had he done a lot more research on the repugs , and dug up as much dirt as possible to use in a quiet little chat .
Had he slowed the wars down .
Had restored the rights that have been striped .
Had Closed Gitmo .
Had gone after bushco.
had picked a better staff.
the list goes on feel free to add to it .
I would like to see a town hall with Jesse Ventura , now that would be fun .
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
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