Sen. Max Baucus Releases Bill to No Applause, Almost No Support
Here's some of the latest on health-care reform. First, Max Baucus released the Senate Finance Committee's version of health-care reform. Such as it is.
Ezra Klein points out Baucus's dilemma:
Max Baucus will release the Chairman's Mark -- the official first draft of his bill -- later today. But things are not going according to plan. He's got a bill full of the compromises meant to attract Republican support, but no Republican support. Not even Olympia Snowe, at this point, has committed to backing the bill.
Meanwhile, the framework has conceded enough to the GOP that it's also losing Democratic support, including that of Jay Rockefeller, chairman of the Finance Committee's Health Care Subcommittee. And Rockefeller says that four to six Democrats on the committee feel similarly. Baucus is thus caught between a rock and a hard place. The absence of any Republican support makes it hard for him to justify his compromises. And his compromises make it hard for the Democrats on the committee to support his bill.
Nate Silver checks in with objections from the Senate Finance Committee:
Firstly, there's Jay Rockefeller, who opposes the lack of a pubic option.
Ron Wyden doesn't think the subsidies are sufficient.
Then there's Olympia Snowe, who doesn't like the funding mechanism.
John Kerry also has issues with the funding plan -- different issues than Snowe does -- and implies that the bill needs significant changes.
Mike Enzi and Chuck Grassley, who were never really on board in the first place, have a litany of objections.
Kent Conrad now wants the CBO to score the bill with a 20-year time window -- an unorthodox move which could have a variety of motives, but if nothing else introduces another wrench into the works.
At least Jeff Bingaman is still on board. For now.
These are not just any old random set of Senators opposing Baucus's plan -- these are the thought leaders on health care reform.
Negotiations are funny things. Sometimes the scariest moments come when you're closest to a settlement, as all sides feel emboldened to take the last opportunity to demonstrate resolve. Leverage in a negotiation is not necessarily a zero-sum affair, since nobody has any leverage if there's no hope to reach an agreement. So some of this maneuvering, perhaps, is a reflection of the bill moving closer to passage and not further away.
But let's be clear -- some of this is Baucus's chickens coming home to roost. When you make a unilateral decision to negotiate with only five other people from a 23-person committee and 100-person Senate, and two of those five people have clear electoral disincentives against supporting any plan that you might come up with, the negotiations are liable to end in failure far more often than not. The flurry of on-the-record statements against Baucus's reform plans -- not "leaks", not trial balloons -- points toward a defective process.
And that may suit Democrats just fine. There are at least three other starting points for a final showdown over health care: the House Tri-Committee bill, the Senate HELP bill, and possibly also the White's House's statement of principles, some of which remain vaguely defined. Many of the objections raised to BaucusCare would necessarily apply to one or more of those bills too -- but they'd appear to be starting from no worse a position than Baucus's plan itself.
The insurance industry is cheering.
Maybe this is Obama's plan to disenfranchise Republicans - and maybe that's waaaay to optimistic on my part, especially since half the Democrats are Reublicans at heart. I'm going to bet that the Senate kills any health bill in order to preserve the status quo.
It is Government of, by and for the Corporations.
Why would anyone think it is otherwise.
Follow the money.
Billions and trillions to the Banksters, and to the War and Death Profiteers.
Pennies to the peons.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
...are more than happy with this bill; health insurance companies.
is a thought.... as it has been told and told again, the Democrats have control of both houses, they do not need the Republicans... if they wish to pass health care reform, they have the votes.
The problem is...if the Democrats proposal is enacted with no Republican votes and it is a big flop.... the Democrats do not want all of the blame because they know the ramifications would be devastating. It's all politics all the time folks.
your life? Or were you attempting sarcasm?
You should talk. Granted, the last 2 years were a Dem majority in the Senate. But Booshy was stifling everything that came his way.
Not to mention the Dems didn't have THAT BIG of a majority. A majority of what? One? Two?
Now, we go back to 94. All the way up to 2006. What did the GOP do to benefit the country as a whole?
Really John. You should know more . It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot. Than to open it and remove all doubt.
You have a nice evening John.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
that supports the status quo for the Insurance Cos...against the American people!
I think I know what happened: A bunch of the attorneys were sitting around late in the evening having had a few drinks with dinner. They wrote a joke bill, and it accidentally got turned in as THE bill. Baucus did not read it, of course, and here we are. This is not the first time this has happened.
belong in prison. The AG needs to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate them for influence peddling and quid pro quo bribery. They are rotten to the core. I can smell the stench of their corruption from where I sit, 70 miles away.
Conrad and Baucus must go..meanwhile lets keep up the pressure on Congress to pass a bill for the people not the corps. 1.800.828.0498
asswipe. If Obama goes along with this shit, its over for the dems. This diptshit wants to FINE people if they don't buy health insurance. there are no more words to say about this insurance bought off jerk!
Says Shanny Peer, policy director at the independent French-American Foundation: "France gets better results for less money and everyone is covered."
see: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/...
were shilling awhile ago. They are not interested in reform. They are seeking an increase in profits, which they are legally obligated to do. I am speaking about the health insurance corporations.
its not just "no" support. for me, it will be active, vocal and constant criticism of this asswipe and the shit he is trying to screw us over with.
we were screwed in the financial bailout, and we will be further screwed with this health-insurance-crafted bill.
in elections case. You think we're screwed with these two? Ha!
"Pulling a Baucus".
Let that stand for any act of irredeemable corruption, an ultimate betrayal of trust.
Why can't we be like every other Country and remove profits from healthcare? Why do we have to have companies that profit from sick customers?
if a popular vote were to be held, it is likely that we would have, at least, a public option, and possibly a single payer system. but, thanks to the wonders of representative democracy--where the elected leaders "protect" us silly people from ourselves--the will of the people is easily cast aside, as big money demands.
which leads us to the only true power we have as citizens: vote withholding. the democratic party (from obama on down) made a lot of empty promises, just like they do every time we approach an election. and until they know that the base's votes are not for-certain, they will continue to use the left/liberals/progressives to get into office, only then to go back to their neoliberal corporate-shilling.
And no one would believe that aliens would not be covered because of the past behavior of the dems. Congress is the problem....both dems and repugs. Getting them to give up their greed and do the right thing....health care for all, is "unAmerican".
Martians, Venitians, Moonunits, or the people from the sun. Solarlatexbeefs.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Beecause Amurika is thu greytest kuntry on urth!
going to direct you to the answer. Google "corporations legal obligations person status."
So tell me again why Baucus was only "negotiating" with 5 other members of the committee, and not the enitre committee? Do they not have a vote? Not even the freakin' chairman (Rockefeller)?
And, of course, why none of those 5 were supporters of the public option?
Good work, Max! Ya got a bill NOBODY likes. Ah, bipartisanship!
bipartisanshipBUYpartisanship.There, I fixed it.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
perfect.
Ooooooh - I like it!
Or is he just going to resign and take a position at Cygna already?
Or perhaps his wife or some other family member will.
Any rumors? He must be pretty well unelectable at this point. How's he polling?
and go for HR676 ,and take all of the blue dogs out to the woodshed for a little chat .
The hell with max bribes
And bennies nelson
to hell with all of the for hire policy grubbers .
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
my employer "offers" healthcare, but my premium is $11,000. a year and I only make $34,000. a year. How is forcing me to spend one third of my income on insurance going to fix the system?
Maybe if Baucus who makes $160,000. a year had to pay $53,000. a year for his healthcare premium he could understand why we need real reform.
only make $160K a year.
$174 k. Plus perks.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I say we pass a law that makes all senators and congressmen wear NASCAR style jump suits with all their "sponsors" names (or logos) on them. Then when they get up to announce their great ideas we can see who sponsors them in the government!
... that the country now knows he is a failure?
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
i think maxi-million baucus stopped caring when he realized how rich he could get by selling his seat to the highest bidder
Hardly anyone pays attention.
At best they are watching the Corporate Media which is an alternate reality.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
without presenting a bill so the Town Hall crap could take place. He did what he was paid for, and did it well.
Distract the hordes.
Over the last ten years or so from insurance and health care companies. That is according to Rick Sanchez this afternoon. The good Senator could not be reached for comment.
No Public Option = A NO vote
Government + the Federal Reserve = organized crime
"With all the bitching and whining I've done, All the bipartisan work I've seen, all the hard work and lobbying money...uh, I mean time and thoughtfullness I have put into this bill, why oh why don't you like it?" - Max Baucus
Just once I'd like to be addressed as Sir. Without the "You are creating a scene"
purposes only.
This plan has had it's desired effect. It will have no support from Republican's and almost none from Democrats, except from conservative democrats like Baucus that have been bought off and don't want any changes in the first place. It strains credulity to believe that the Whitehouse didn't know this would be the result of something Baucus would come up with. Obviously, lobbyists have informed Rahm that they don't want anything passed with a public option. It is getting harder to listen to the President make speeches. He isn't as bad as Bush but it seems to be getting more obvious that he isn't in charge. Listening to Bush make a speech was like listening to an ill-informed, teenage, egomaniac. Obama is much more intelligent but seemingly not in charge or dishonest.
It appears Obama is 'on vacation' like Bush was. When is he going to get involved? The commentary that a brown man can't really direct the country appears to be coming true. With czars he should be "blasting away" at financial non-reform, torture, rendition, no health care for millions, internal spying, habeas corpus abuse, war in Afghanistan, all at the same time. Doing one at a time is a sure recipe for disaster and business/politics as usual.
What would you think if you found out that he absolutely is in charge?
ditty about senator k-street, max baucus, and the 2008 election cycle: 91% of his donations come from individuals living outside of Montana
It's time to start over. This bill is worse than no bill.
Start over, leave the Republicans on the sidelines, and pass healthcare reform that serves the people, not the medical industrial complex.
I agree. It's time for Obama to get a set of balls and stop kissing the Republican or Blue Dogs a**es. This bipartisian crap needs to be kicked to the curb.
Doesn't even matter what the vote is on this bill. Will still have to be reconciled with the more popular House bills.
Unless you want to start with single-payer which has even less chance of passing than the public option.
under the bill people would be required to spend up to about 13 percent of their income on crappy health insurance....
Not affordable, not worthwhile, not enough benefits, not really worth it....
Cue the Kabuki....
and it will be 13% of your gross pay. Did they really say that or am I having a nightmare?
Lets say you're right. And lets round off the number to 10 percent.
So, What you are saying is that if I make ...say...40K in one year, Their gonna want around 4K for healthcare coverage? Is that what you're saying? 20K- 2K, 50K-5K. preposterous.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
taking something out of your paycheck. I was distracted, and didn't catch the whole thing. Maybe it was about the fine if you didn't buy what you are mandated to buy. My question about gross or net pay is a real question. I haven't read the Baucus Debacle yet, so I don't know which it is based upon. Someone here is paying about $900 per month right now, just for herself. That's over $11K per year. Good grief!
With a 10 percent unemployment rate, coupled with a (lets say 25% retired rate) thats 35% so far. Now add on I don't know what that figure is on this one so I'll say 7% disabled. 42%.
And to round it off, lets say 8% welfare. 50%. OK.
That leaves us with 170 million people who would be paying into the system. At 1K a year, that would be over, what's after a trillion?
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Or a quadrillion. Trillion is 10 to the 12th power. Quadrillion is 10 to the 15th power. That's what my dictionary says.
1,000 X 1 thousand = 1 million (106)
1,000 X 1 million = 1 billion (109)
1,000 X 1 billion = 1 trillion (1012)
1,000 X 1 trillion = 1 quadrillion (1015)
1,000 X 1 quadrillion = 1 quintillion (1018)
1,000 X 1 quintillion = 1 sextillion (1021)
1,000 X 1 sextillion = 1 septillion (1024)
1,000 X 1 septillion = 1 octillion (1027)
1,000 X 1 octillion = 1 nonillion (1030)
1,000 X 1 nonillion = 1 decillion (1033)
1,000 X 1 decillion = 1 unodecillion (1036)
1,000 X 1 unodecillion = 1 duodecillion (1039)
Right. But you see what I was driving at. It's more than enough money.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
by the government to buy anything from a private corporation, and if we refused, the payment would be taken from our pay checks by the government? WTF? And now SCOTUS is poised to give Corporate America even more control over everything? "Everything" is the bottom line, too.
It hasn't been stated that we would be mandated to buy from a private ins co. This is still in negotiations..
If, what you say was to be proven true. I'd be right with ya. But so far, it all speculation.
I seriously doubt that, that would be the case.
Time will tell. One thing for sure, is Max's bill is dead on arrival.
I would like to add, that if I was forced to pay say, 75 bucks a month for healthcare. I could live with that. Even though I'm with the VA, I'd still pay it. Because I believe it would be worth it.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
One more thing before I go.
Even if that number was cut in half, it would still be enough money.
Good Night.Be well.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
what is the point without a public option??????????? unbelievable
Health Insurance Industry Profitability Protection Act
Blah, blah, blah.
Toady.
his reelection goes the same way
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
If this is the kind of government we are going to get, we need to draft a primary competitor now. Failing that, we could put our lot in with the Greens or start a new party. I know that this may play into the republican's hands, but we need to let them know we are serious or they won't take us seriously.
It's torture listening to this pathetic DINO-sore talk.
Okay, so now we can go on the record as saying we tried bipartisanship.
Can we get some REAL work done now?
I agree...time to stop this "bipartisan" garbage.
If the Republicans don't like the bill, to hell with 'em.
ALL OF THEM.
EVERY LAST DAMN ONE OF THEM.
And for the redneck idiots who VOTED zombies like Enzi and Baucus in...good for you guys.
Baucus' masters (the insurance and healthcare industry) decided to try to "poison the well" on this one. Make a bill that NOBODY wants and then present it as THE bill....I can't believe anyone could be that simple-minded...
Anyone remember CAMPAIGN FUNDING REFORM??? That would stop morons like "the gang of six" dead in their tracks.
ah...to heck with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4
'nuff said.
Well since Japan appropriated baseball I guess it's only fair that we have the Kabuki.
I recommend that any investors here buy stock in United Healthcare. It's about to jump another 10%.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
and hibachis.
Why oh why is a republican presenting this plan?
Aren't they the minority?
crazy crazy
No public option it will be then
You have done something Obama will never be able to do.
You have united the GOP and progressive Democrats.
We all want to buy you a steaming mug of "PHUK U MAX"
Eventually, most progressive Democrats may realize just how bad Obama is. We can't join with the GOP, because simply disagreeing with the president does not make us allies. It matters why we oppose what a president does. If a Republican opposes Obama because he was born in Kenya, is a Muslim, and a socialist who is going to incarcerate conservatives after he declares martial law (you know, the moderate Republican position these days), I'm not going to "unite" with them in any way.
On the other hand, if some Republicans want to oppose Obama's human rights policies because they are barbaric and unconstitutional, I'll have no trouble joining them on those issues (as long as they don't believe any of the other Kenyan, Muslim, socialist crap). However, since the Republican Party has become the party of insane morons, I'm not going to unite with them on anything -- I no longer know of any Republicans who oppose Obama solely on legitimate issues.
All I'm saying is that we agree the bill sucks. Of course, it should be obvious we agree for different reasons.
Really!
...the Private Insurers Enrichment act -- should be targeted for replacement.
Do you sleep at night Max?
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
from big pharma
I'm glad the repugs aren't going to vote for the bill. Now he can have a seat and let Kerry and the real Democrats on that committee work on a bill with a strong public option.
It will be a crippled 'public option' like the one in HR 3200.
At best.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Could the entire corrupt 'Gang of six' and all those that have 'lobbied'/bribed/extorted them be federally prosecuted under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) statute?
Cue the Kabuki....
Sen. Max Baucus is an epoch failure. every which way he could he failed.
As a side note this is another example of how the Republicans will NEVER NEVER vote for anything a Democrat puts out there regarding health care.
After something like this gets through the Finance Committee do they get to amend it before the full Senate votes on it. In other words if they pass it through the committee and when it gets to the floor can a Senator try to put in an amendment that says that Captain Kangaroo will have his and his family's health care covered by the people of the United States for the rest of their lives and the rest of the lives of any future member of said family(or something like that)? Or maybe something like, "Single payer for all." Ok let's vote!
has in common with this bill, is that they are both on paper. Bill will be ammended and changed before vote and then has to be reconciled with the more popular House bills.
... IS Obama's and a lot of Dems Waterloo. I'm sure their counting on how forgetful we are and won't have the stomach to vote Republican? I will vote for every Republican right down to the dog catcher.
We can let them sell us out without a fight. I wish one of these popular blogs will start a REAL million march in Washington. The wingnuts are even beating us at that.
getting active in primaries and trying to replace DINO's with real Dems.
Here's your protest. Be there or be square.
http://www.madashelldoctors.com/
Replace the whole lot of them with socialists and let's be done with them.
The tyranny of the two factions of the one party of power and privilege is at the heart of our problems.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
for a sleazy, backroom, out-of-touch, do-anything-to-be-elected politician, Baucus would be the perfect choice. He looks like a Hollywood stereotyoe of a sleazebag politician.
Oh thanks Max, now what is the media supposed to do since they've been hyping your plan as *the* plan? It's pretty hard to call it bi-partisan when only half the partisans are for it, and even those are from the corporate DINO fringe. Didja think about the media, Max? Didja?
On the upside, I suspect Lieberman (R-IS) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) are all for it!
Baucus spent all this time to come up with this piece of s**t. Somebody needs to get this good for nothing out of office.
I thought the Democrats control the White House and substantial majorities in both houses of Congress. Why don't they act like it?
Specifically, why did Baucus negotiate with Republicans who have openly opposed any reform measure from the get go (and have said they want Obama to fail in every way), and why didn’t Baucus present a Democratic-only bill with a public option, at least as a bargaining chip?
There are only 2 possibilities that I can think of. Either Baucus and the Democrats are the worst negotiators in history, and never even learned lesson 1: ask for more than you are willing to settle for. Or, the Democrats, like the Republicans, are bought and paid for by the insurance industry, and this entire circus (which is engendering much false ill will for Obama and Democrats) is a sham. Given that Baucus has received, according to the latest reports, between $2.5 million and $3.5 million from the insurance industry of late, which pretty much leads the entire Congress, I’m afraid that the truth is rather unpleasant.
But at least this will wipe out the argument that Obama and the Democrats plan a “government takeover of health care,” right? Since the public option is dead, we won’t hear any more about “government-run health care” starting today, right?
why Baucus handed this sweetheart to his friends in the insurance industry.
It's amazing how this man from a relatively low populated state, has this much power over the future of health care for an entire nation.
C'mon Montanans! Give him some shit! We don't matter to him. We're not his constituents. But you sure as hell are. Let this miscreant know what you want. What we want. What the majority of this country wants. Will you please get in touch with this clown? Otherwise, we are left only to assume that you good folks up there really don't give a shit.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Stall stall stall stall stall stall; Release a bill that does nothing for reform, and only is a bailout for the insurance companies with the foolish hope that the extra money will encourage the Insurance companies to behave. In the end the bill will be as per the plan reluctantly passed to “just get something out there” and help the insurance company and GOP, or rightly throw out so Max can make a big fuss and claim he has to start all over. If thrown out Max will then go back to the stalling game after the 2nd or 3rd round of the stall game Healthcare reform will be dead before arrival
With the election of Obama (or likely any Democrat) the media began shouting for the need for bipartisanship. For the last eight years, bipartisanship has traveled only one way. The Republicans allow lobbyists to write a bill and someone like Baucus and/or Conrad votes for it with no input. Obama has to know that he either follows through or he can be replaced. It is not good enough to be better then Bush. Bush put the country up for sale and now he wants his after-the-fact bribe. Almost anyone would have been better then Bush. Obama seems to be more worried about being reelected then voting his values. He should worry about being reelected. He won't be if he loses the Progressive vote.
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