How many different versions of this movie poster are there?

If these institutions had behaved in the public's good will... the very public they serve and who pay for this "benefit"... they'd have nothing to worry about. The shame they feel is brought on by their greed and avarice.

To think they can get money from people and provide them nothing in return for it is appalling. What the fuck do they think is going on?! And for how long do they think people will be stupid enough to pay for nothing. The whole insurance based industry should be brought to their collective knees.

Enough already!

Serves these dicks right. I am fully "covered" by Blue Cross (Prudent Buyer PPO) and for half a year they routinely refused to cover anything submitted because they refused to acknowledge proof of prior coverage from my previous employer. (There was no gap in employment or coverage; I left the old place on Friday and started at the new place the next Monday.) I had an epileptic seizure late last year and someone called an ambulance on me. Blue Cross stuck the entire $6000 hospital bill in my face and refused to cover a dime of it. My company actually has to hire a patient advocate to deal with these people and that was how I got out of that jam.

MillionthMonkey @ 5:

Serves these dicks right. I am fully "covered" by Blue Cross (Prudent Buyer PPO) and for half a year they routinely refused to cover anything submitted because they refused to acknowledge proof of prior coverage from my previous employer. (There was no gap in employment or coverage; I left the old place on Friday and started at the new place the next Monday.) I had an epileptic seizure late last year and someone called an ambulance on me. Blue Cross stuck the entire $6000 hospital bill in my face and refused to cover a dime of it. My company actually has to hire a patient advocate to deal with these people and that was how I got out of that jam.

One reason working poor can't afford it-loadsa money on the premiums deductible + getting the bill. Why bother? :roll:

This memo reads like it was meant to be leaked to try and counter the damage the movie has done.
When you can't denie the truth, you have to distort and spin it to put doubt in peoples minds about the truth.

Hummm...

Michael Moore, Rubber Glove, No Lube . . . . . Must be going to Fist Fuck the gop . . .

Good on ya Mike ... Just don't get any on ya ........................

Would Mr. Barclay like to call-out the "lifestyle choice" pushing corporations that have spent the last 50 years telling us to drink Coke, eat McDonald's, etc. How about he tells the companies who force their products on our children daily in their schools to stop and perhaps contribute a year's profit to the coverage of those 45 million Americans without coverage who are also the most likely to be eating cheap fast food before going off to job number two of the day.

BCBS should also stop harassing and filing lawsuits against doctors in America treating American citizens with Lyme Disease. BCBS sues doctors after state medical boards harrass them. Lyme patients are going without care in America in the year 2007. We all personally thank BLUE CROSS>

We need national, guaranteed health insurance. No more denials based on pre existing conditions. Health care should be a human right. If I go to my country of birth, I see my doctor for free and any prescription I get is free. Free because the government through my fellow citizens pay for it through higher taxes. So what?

Those that keep singing the same old song about American's having a better standard of living should really put a plug in it. We have a better standard of living in America only if you factor having bigger cars, more tvs and bigger homes into the equation. I.E. We have more things in America, not a better standard of living.

Speaking specifically about Blue Double-Cross. I was in anaphylactic shock, treated at a local hospital emergency room on a Friday night. They denied the claim, contending I, “should have waited to see my network doctor on Monday”. At the morgue maybe.

The likes of sociopathic CEO's can be hung in the third inning, after the opener hanging of all neocon traitors in the maladministration, the second inning following up with Mann Vulture and Bill O'Leilly types. Build the gallows and pass the popcorn already!!

GOT ROPE?

Back in the 90's, health insurers had snitfits, saying "bureaucrats will tell you what doctor to got to!"

Fine, now we have heartless bean counters doing that.

This look at U.S. health care by the numbers includes comparisons of the American health care system relative to other countries and between the states, plus data on the uninsured, rising health care costs, the woes of Medicare and Medicaid and more.

For all the details, see:
"SiCKO Required Reading: U.S. Health Care by the Numbers."

rainyseason @ 18:

Why don't we all get ol' Barclay's email address and let him know that his worst fears have already come true and that were not gonna take this bullshit anymore.......

Barclay's cellphone number is listed in the memo. I figured he must have changed his number by now, I called. His mailbox is full. There is an option to page him however, and that's what I did! Cellphone number is 717 329 3648. While his memo isn't incriminating in itself, I've got a list of good questions to ask this scumbag. Anyone??

Memo reads like BCBS is -not- a for profit insurer... haha pull the other one.

[deleted--off topic. Please limit your posts on topic threads to the actual topic. There is an Open Thread for general discussion]

ive had blue ppo. yea you won't have complaints until you actually try using your insurance. then you start learning all this sht. sure blue ppo monthly plan is affordable. until you get hurt and need medical attention. you still pay up the ass and they refuse coverage on a lot of things.

I live in NY and worked for a co. based in Missouri, and hence was "covered" by BC of KC.

I needed to file complaints with the Missouri Dept of Insurance to get them to do anything.

I could make my own documentary about them alone!

Everyone should get to know his/her own state's insurance dept. and don't ever hesitate to file complaints against the bastards.

Scarecrow @ 34:

joe! @ 30:

I have blue cross. No complaints yet for me.

This reminds me of so many German citizens during WWII who said, "I'm not a Jew. No complaints yet for me."

That's way over the top Scarecrow.

http://www.bp.com/genericsection.do?categoryId=3000109&contentId=7002614

It won't take any effort for the reich-wing media to make Moore look like a raving osama hugging communist nut. The sheeple will nod approvingly and go back to their private hells assured in the knowledge that stirring up the master is only going to make it worse.

A couple of really good simple points in Sicko that we can share with people who just don't get it.

Libraries, fire depts, police, and education are all socialized in our country. Shouldn't medical care ALSO be so?

And I think it was the example from England, the doctors actually make more money for showing progress/results in preventive care such as lowering cholesterol and blood pressure. What a concept!

I just sent this email to Mr Fitzpatrick: I'm sure he'd like to hear from you as well!

Dear Mr. Fitzpatrick,
My wife and I just came from a viewing of Mr. Moores newest film. My wife has Ataxia and is currently using a cane to walk. Needless to say we were viewing the film with intense interest. It did not escape our attention that one of the disqualifiars that scrolled across the screen was Ataxia. Indeed it seems that any condition was sufficient to deprive an American citizen of health care. Your memo seems to imply that your company is innocent of such procedures; perhaps, but not likely. I'd like to suggest that this is an excellent time for some soul searching on behalf of your industry. This is indeed a time of intense greed and we are all guilty of it and quite likely to pay severe penalties for our actions as a society. We all need to examine our place in the commonwealth and how our actions affect others in the Global community. This is not a job for the lazy or morally bankrupt and as the saying goes- What goes around comes around- and it has come around to rest on your industries doorstep. I do hope you think beyond yourself in solving this problem. It's been nice chatting and now I must contact everyone I know about a compelling new movie that I've just seen............
Bob Kasprzak
Musician/Fine Arts Painter

We don't need health insurance. We need health care. [Rinse and repeat.]

The only way I've ever gotten Blue Double-Cross to do anything is by filing a complaint with the California Attorney General's Office, Dept. of Consumer Affairs. I'm not sure the Office does anything, but getting that cc seems to galvanize the Double-Cross trolls into understanding that 2+2=4. Don't know if it would work in other states.

re #42, atrox: fact-free letters to the editor, huh? That's actually a tactic the Rovians / right wing noise machine got caught at when spreading BS about the Iraq war. We need to get readers to send them all in to one place where they can be compared. (Identical letters from Billings, Montana and Poughkeepsie, NY, are kind of a giveaway.) Here at C&L? Or maybe Josh Marshall's TalkingPointsMemo?

BCBS certainly has no claim to self-righteousness due to being non-profit. I'm now covered by Health Net, which is for-profit, and have far better coverage, response, and help from them than I ever did under BCBS. They're far from perfect, but just because a company is non-profit doesn't mean they're going to care about you or not try to screw you over.

These comments give me hope that we will get our act together on Healthcare in the near future. We need to make noise and hope our voices and votes can compete with their (Insurer's) dollars.

Good health.

Scarecrow @ 46:

Fox News Alert @ 37:

Scarecrow @ 34:

joe! @ 30:

This reminds me of so many German citizens during WWII who said, "I'm not a Jew. No complaints yet for me."

That's way over the top Scarecrow.

The hell it is.

43 million people without insurance.

It all starts with "No complaints yet for me".

Take your blinders off.

Yep! Look at the big picture, PEOPLE! Remember the Sheople that said, "I support warrantless wiretaps. I have nothing to hide."

Of course Blue Cross is worried how this movie may affect their image. However, this does not prove how "bad" these companies allegedly are. Blue Cross, among many other insurance companies, are merely planning for the movie's fallout. The reason this movie requires planning and courses of action on the part of the insurance companies is because these companies know how sheepish and mindless the majority of people are when it comes to the reasons why the healthcare industry in the US is so bad.

Most people will simply conclude that the insurance companies are "evil", "cold", "profit seeking" enterprises with no regard for human life. They will not bother to look deeper into the problem of exactly WHY the healthcare system is like this, and at the same time why the shoe industry say, is not like this. There are thousands of profit seeking industries in the US, and the majority of them are honest and legitimate. Why then should the healthcare industry be any different? Of course there is a very good reason why the healthcare system IS so bad. It cannot be profit seeking, because ALL companies operate in this respect and do much good for the population.

The answer of course is that they have a privilege bestowed upon them by law-making authorities who either turn a blind eye to the corruption going on, or they outright pass legislation that allows money sharing between the companies and law-makers. The question then becomes WHO should we blame? We should blame those who are responsible naturally. In this case, the guilty are both the government officials who pass the laws and regulate the industry in order to benefit themselves, as well as the industry who lives and obeys those laws and thus benefit themselves at the expense of others.

If the government really did its job, if it did what it is supposed to do, then any and all faulty claims denials, corruption and fraud would be ended. Just as the shoe industry is prevented from engaging in fraud by government laws, so too should the insurance industry be prevented from engaging in corruption.

THIS is the proper analysis that everyone should be done here. It is detrimental to ourselves if we simply make the easy and superficial conclusion that it is nothing but "profit seeking". Profit seeking is not inherently evil or bad. It is the fundamental cause of progress in an advanced society. If we simply say we need universal healthcare, then the same corrupt government officials will then be in charge of our health. Yikes. You may argue that it works in other countries, so why can't it work here? Well, I've already said it before, it may work in the short run, but it is unsustainable. Over time, inflation will operate in the healthcare industry (as well as all others) and hence the costs will become simply too high to be able to be provided for. This is why it is so bloody expensive in the US. To any extent that it is cheaper in other countries, it is only temporary. Costs are rising in those countries as well, and when they become too high, universal healthcare will end abruptly, or the quality will plummet. Either way, it cannot work long term because it goes against human nature and human choice.

What we need to do is solicit those in government to change the laws and stop allowing the insurance companies to benefit themselves in this way. Of course, the easiest thing to do (Occum's Razor) would simply be to eliminate all regulations in the healthcare industry except of course those regulations that prevent fraud and theft. But alas, many politicians simply are too greedy and corrupt to change the laws as it benefits themselves to keep the status quo going. These politicians just love it when ignoramuses approach them to advocate for more regulation and laws in the "evil" healthcare industry, because this of course is the reason they are involved in this sick game in the first place. They WILL make more laws, but since the current generation of lawmakers are Constitutional bastardizers, the laws that get passed will benefit the same people all over again instead of being based on sound economic, philisophic, and moral grounds. We THINK we are making things better by giving the government more power, but this is a very dangerous game to play, and I don't think anyone here believes that our current government is moral or honest enough to make things better. WE need to make things better. WE need to take care of our own problems and advocate for total and complete freedom in the healthcare industry. Yes, "same old" free market crap again!

If anyone here thinks it is the free market that caused this malady, basing this conclusion solely on the fact that many corrupt people are making money, they need to get their heads examined. The healthcare system in the US is certainly NOT a free market in operation. It is entirely the opposite. It is corrupt people milking an ignorant public and getting away with it scott free. They have rooting for them: on the one side (leftists) who think it is the evils of capitalism itself that is to blame. This is not the reason things are bad and so the left is harmless. Forget about them. On the other side (rightists) who think that any money making, regardless of how it is made, is moral and righteous, so the industry should be running fine. If it is not, then it is because of the leftists who are trying to "turn the country into communists". This also is not the reason for why things are bad and so the right is also completely irrelevent. Is there anyone left? Yes, but this line of argumentation probably loses about 95% of the population's interests because 95% of the population think that left and right are the only approaches to economic problems. If both the left and right are wrong, what is right? Answer: You. Me. Each and every single person in the world. Liberty.

"This reminds me of so many German citizens during WWII who said, “I’m not a Jew. No complaints yet for me.”

I define that as a Nazi analogy.

Too bad you are so self absorbed in your hyperbole that you don't realize that we basically agree with each other.

Scarecrow @ 34:

joe! @ 30:

I have blue cross. No complaints yet for me.

This reminds me of so many German citizens during WWII who said, "I'm not a Jew. No complaints yet for me."

My reaction exactly. God, I hate people like Joel.

Fox News Alert @ 52:

If you have a decent job with health insurance benefits, there is no health insurance crises. But if you are as Scarecrow points out, one of the 43 million Americans without insurance (or one of many that are under-insured), you are screwed.

Actually, if you are unfortunate enough to get a very srious disease, such as cancer, you are screwed even if you do have "good" insurance. I watched my mother go through it. Despite being meticulous about finances, the insurance company found all kinds of creative ways to avoid paying, then cut her off completely leaving her to foot the bill alone. She avoided bankruptcy by the skin of her teeth, and after she went into remission and was healthy again, it took a year to find work so she could start paying the staggering debt. You know why? Because she was uninsurable because she had cancer.

Universal insurance coverage is nothing but a gift to the insurance companies. What we need is to go single-payer and eliminate the health insurance companies altogether. As it is now, they are just a money suck from health care and provide nothing of value in return for the cash.

Universal health insurance: NO (unless you really like the system we have right now), single-payer: YES

I hope Sicko above all raises the question of where the priorities should be in our government, whether our government should prioritize taking care of us or whether our government should prioritize defending us against threats of terrorism.

Private Freedom...

Still upchucking that same old libertarian BS eh?

First and foremost... private "for profit" health insurance are at the root of the problem. One third of every health care dollar goes to feed the massive bureaucracy necessitated by the insurance companies, a bureaucracy with one purpose… to minimize their losses, reduce their risks and maximize their profits by denying patients coverage.

It is a simple equation:

Deny coverage = maximized profits

It’s the only industry that turns away almost 40% of the people who apply and have the money, but get denied for pre-existing conditions. BC&BS of California got fined a million dollars this year by the states Inspector General because they were dropping women who got pregnant and individuals who got sick.

The last time you posted this:

“Please Mr. Amato, you can’t support Michael Moore and what he is doing, and then deny the existence of the only solution that is possible if we frame the debate in his terms. He is complaining how 50 million people don’t have health insurance. So what? Why is this a problem? See, many poor people from around the world come to the US in search of prosperity. Compared to what they had before, a life in the US without health insurance is way better than before. The fact that so many people don’t have insurance is a reflection of how many people, rich and poor, want to be in the US.”

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/01/mtvs-kurt-loder-does-hit-job-on...

It’s a problem because according to the study done by the Institute of Medicine 18,000 Americans die every year of diseases that were treatable but they didn’t have access to health care. We are one of the last major industrialized nations who don’t provide universal health care.

Frankly… your position that it is not a problem is the problem! It is blind self serving ego-centrism and as a direct result causes the death of 18,000 Americans and drives another 440,000 who had health insurance into bankruptcy each year. It is statement worthy of a sociopath!

Your other position that it is government is the problem is equally inane, it is an ideological stance driven by your libertarian philosophy and not substantiated by the facts. The average HMO in the US has an overhead of 17%, while Medicare runs with a 3% overhead efficiency rate.

A corporation is neither moral nor immoral… they are amoral in that they have one responsibility to their share holders… to make as much money as they can for their share holders. They are what they are and “risk management” for them is deny services and denying coverage. They do not belong in the heath care because of that fact.

seepeesate @ 61:

Fox News Alert @ 52:

If you have a decent job with health insurance benefits, there is no health insurance crises. But if you are as Scarecrow points out, one of the 43 million Americans without insurance (or one of many that are under-insured), you are screwed.

Actually, if you are unfortunate enough to get a very srious disease, such as cancer, you are screwed even if you do have "good" insurance. I watched my mother go through it. Despite being meticulous about finances, the insurance company found all kinds of creative ways to avoid paying, then cut her off completely leaving her to foot the bill alone. She avoided bankruptcy by the skin of her teeth, and after she went into remission and was healthy again, it took a year to find work so she could start paying the staggering debt. You know why? Because she was uninsurable because she had cancer.

Universal insurance coverage is nothing but a gift to the insurance companies. What we need is to go single-payer and eliminate the health insurance companies altogether. As it is now, they are just a money suck from health care and provide nothing of value in return for the cash.

Universal health insurance: NO (unless you really like the system we have right now), single-payer: YES

Why not universal. OF course it should be universal. Otherwise you get the seemingly "not-for-profit" who in reality, if they truly were not for profit, they would have the only intention of putting themselves out of business, by getting their members well, not looking for profits. Of course not-for-profit organizations look for profit. Get with the program, the only difference is that the not-for-profit do not have stockholders or board members who DIRECTLY benefit from the profits. The money is pooled back into the organization. FOr a company that does nothing except take in money and look to NOT spend money, where DO the profits actually go, in a not-for-profit. and why do they state, as from the letter:
"1) The Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) and the 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield
companies are committed to improving the U.S. healthcare system for our nearly 100 million members through continuous innovation that reflects the ever-changing healthcare landscape and the needs of the consumer. "

HELLO! Healthcare is NOT a consumer item. It is a need. Moores' movie puts it all into perspective, by aliging it with police, afire and libraries. All perfectly socialized processes that ALL UNIVERSALLY have come to use and expect.

Limitations of the Consumer-Driven Health Care Model

All of which serves to highlight the growing dangers to Americans' health and safety posed by the growing conservative religion of "consumer driven health care" (CDHC).

From "Unhealthy Trends:"

This trend is greeted with enthusiasm by the advocates of consumer-driven health care (CDHC) in the Bush White House and its conservative amen corner like the Wall Street Journal. They encourage new market-based approaches like tax-deductible health care accounts, which allow individuals and families to save towards health expenditures, rolling over unused funds from year-to-year. Cost-conscious health care consumers, they contend, will drive down costs by optimizing their "purchasing decisions" and avoiding unnecessary treatment.

CDHC detractors, however, argue that medical savings accounts and similar plans supported by employers will neither curb costs nor provide for healthier Americans. Arnold Relman of the Harvard Medical School in a stinging critique of the CDHC model rejects the model of patient and provider meeting as equals in the marketplace for health care, arguing:

"...Our health policies have failed to meet national needs because they have been heavily influenced by the delusion that medical care is essentially a business. This delusion stubbornly persists, and current proposals for a more "consumer-driven" health system are likely to make our predicament even worse."

Robert Reischauer, president of the Urban Institute and vice chair of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission concluded bluntly "this trend will shift more of the costs of health care onto the sick, especially those with chronic conditions, larger families, and older workers and reduce the burden on the young, the healthy and singles."

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000654.htm

In Canada we have universal, single-payer health coverage. Turns out you can save a lot of money by eliminating all the useless middlemen. In September of 2000 I had brain surgery to remove a large brain tumour. I can't imagine anyone calling that the result of a "lifestyle choice". Thank god it was benign, and thank god my family didn't have to go bankrupt to pay for it. It's absurd expecting you to pay your life savings for medical care when it's random bad luck. With all the tax collected in a rich country like America, there should be enough to pay for a safety net for Americans.

completely agree, Barbara. which is why i'm heading back to Canada as soon as i possibly can, and hopefully for good this time. :)

rubyinparadise @ 74:

p.s. the comment i made about lifestyle choices mattering was not to contradict the very salient points that Moore makes in the film; it was only to say that the film would have been stronger had Moore at least thrown a token few minutes towards issues like obesity and fast food consumption. one in three Americans is obese; it's a factor.

It's definitely a factor, especially when it's a lot easier to get a Big Mac than fresh veggies from the local market. I'm sure most folks would LOVE to have a better diet...if they could actually AFFORD it. There's a reason why obesity and poverty are linked.

Barbara in B.C. @ 71:

In Canada we have universal, single-payer health coverage. Turns out you can save a lot of money by eliminating all the useless middlemen. In September of 2000 I had brain surgery to remove a large brain tumour. I can't imagine anyone calling that the result of a "lifestyle choice". Thank god it was benign, and thank god my family didn't have to go bankrupt to pay for it. It's absurd expecting you to pay your life savings for medical care when it's random bad luck. With all the tax collected in a rich country like America, there should be enough to pay for a safety net for Americans.

Harvard University did and extensive study and found that 1/3 of every health care dollar that American's spend went to feeding the bureaucracy that the insurance companies created. They estimated that this comes to about $350 Billion dollars per year and that if we switched to a "single payer" system like Canada, that it is enough money to provide "high quality" health care to every man, woman, and child in the US.

The Health care accounts provided by the Bush and Obama proposals are simply Bushit! They would leave millions unisured because the "for profit" insurers won't cover them because of pre-existing conditions. Those conditions can be as simple as a bout of childhood asthma to even vericose veins.

The LA Times researched this very heavily and found estimates on how many applicants for health insurance were denied coverage and they range from 24% to as high as 40%.

Further, these accounts do nothing about cost containment. Healthcare cost are projected to double in the next ten years. Right now 440,000 families buckle under the impact of a medical crisis in the family... they went bankrupt and 75% of them had health insurance. How many more families will fall into poverty when these costs double?

sundog @ 78:

Sicko is truly a masterpiece. It ties in almost all the issue Progressives have been fighting for decades.

Sicko is the movie that ties all the other Michael Moore films together. We see that uncontrolled capitalistic greed has deeply demoralized the USA. Money goes to the biggest dogs and scrapes are left for the rest of us. I wonder how many people would get proper health care if we didn't throw money at a missile defense system or the newest laser guided bomb.

Let's get this agenda pushed down the throats of Congress: Free Health Care, Free Education (Pre-school to College), Free Retirement (a basic living standard for all elderly).

There's no reason that Americans need to be living in fear, stress, or lack of feeling that the country doesn't give a shit about them. Like the British MP said "living in fear, or demoralizing, or basically stupid, a voting public can be controlled." (something to that effect) Democracy is the opposite of this. I like what the expatriated American in France said, "In France the government is afraid of the people; In the US you have exact opposite."

Also for good measure, the government should provide Free ISP for the Internet. It should be the Constitution. Insurance for a people powered democracy. ;>)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

-------Dwight D. Eisenhower

"If they've gor nothing to hide, they shouldn't be worried about it." Right??

sorry the quote should have read "let his mother take care of him"

Here's another horror story: My wife's little brother, a great 13 year old who's forgotten more about insects than I'll ever know and can beat me at any video game we play, has muscular dystrophy. About two years ago he became unable to walk due to muscular degeneration.

Capital Blue Cross, the same company Mr. Barclay works for, DENIED him money for a power wheel chair. My mother-in-law, his caretaker, had to go buy a folding wheelchair for the year that they said a power wheelchair wasn't "necessary."

In the meantime, his posture degraded (in part because of him not being in a properly sized and fitted wheelchair) to the point where he had to undergo a risky surgery to fix his scoliosis. By this point he was on public assistance, and WE THE TAXPAYERS had to foot the bill for this surgery, which was made more expensive and more painful because of the actions of Mr. Barclay's company.

I guess Mr. Barclay would say that my little brother-in-law shouldn't have made the lifestyle choice of having MD.

c. atrox @ 42:

Since "Sicko" has been out, I have noticed some interesting "letters to the editor" in Phoenix newspapers complaining about the dangers of socialized medicine. Today, the Az. Republic has a letter warning about "doctors from other countries who could be terrorists" and conflating that with socialized health care.
I wonder if this "letters to the editor" campaign is happening around the country? I'm guessing these letter writers haven't even seen the movie.

c. atrox,

They've seen the movie. The letters to the editor are part of a industry lead swiftboat campaign. The memes and talking point are universal, whether it coming as phony news and analyses from FOX Noise or whether it's emanating from the propaganda sheets and blogs or whether its coming from "concerned readers" writing into the editorial section. The uniformity of the "arguments" indicates a top-down orchestrated campaign.

What about the movie's suggestion that Hillary Clinton might have been bought?
What do folks think about that?

for the love of god...please just paste the content of the pdf on the blog. downloading the pdf to see the contents is an incredible pain in the ass.

here:
Subject: Capital BlueCross Sicko memo
Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 1:42 PM
From:
To:
Conversation: Capital BlueCross Sicko memo

[The following memo was written by Barclay Fitzpatrick, VP of Corporate Communications for Capital
BlueCross]

I was able to see Sicko last night in Lancaster. There were about 30 other viewers in the theatre
covering all age groups. I have attached the well-written memo from one of our partners, which
describes cases used in the movie, to the end of my memo. Also attached are the latest talking
points from BCBSA. I will focus on impact to our brands, issues, and suggested strategies in this
memo.

The Movie

You would have to be dead to be unaffected by Moore's movie, he is an effective storyteller. In
Sicko Moore presents a collage of injustices by selecting stories, no matter how exceptional to the
norm, that present the health insurance industry as a set of organizations and people dedicated to
denying claims in the name of profit. Denial for treatments that are considered "experimental" is
a common story, along with denial for previous conditions, and denial for application errors or
omissions. Individual employees from Humana and other insurers are interviewed who claim to have
actively pursued claim denial as an institutionalized goal in the name of profit.

While Humana and Kaiser Permanente are demonized, the BlueCross and BlueShield brands appear,
separately and together, visually and verbally, with such frequency that there should be no doubt
that whatever visceral reaction his movie stirs will spill over onto the Blues brands in every
market. Here are some examples:

* Horizon BlueCross/BlueShield is picked out early in the film in a collage of stories citing bad
treatment of members.
* BCBSA is cited for rejecting a woman for coverage due to a high BMI - "too fat" is written
across the screen over a copy of her application denial letter, which describes the BMI rejection.
* BlueShield of California denied coverage for a diagnostic test, which the patient later
received overseas. Patient sues BS of CA and medical director admits to not 'seeing' the actual
denial letter, which was given an electronic signature.
* BlueCross of California denied payment for a major surgery after they discovered a previous
yeast infection, then dropped the person for coverage. This is followed by an interview with a
person who claims to have been a specialist at finding inaccuracies in applications to enable post-
treatment payment denials.
* A BCBSA card is shown while the narrator describes how they (insurers) got wealthy.

In typical Moore fashion, Government and business leaders are behind a conspiracy to keep the
little guy down and dominated while getting rich. Nixon Oval Office tapes are used to show how the
initial idea of a 'less care = profit' enterprise was supported by the administration and became
the HMO paradigm. Legislators are presented as bought stooges for the political agendas of
insurers and big Pharma. Insurers are middlemen in the Medicare Modernization Act - which is
presented as a trick to charge seniors more for their prescription drugs.

Doctors are barely touched - only in the course of discussing the AMA's work to sink early efforts
in the 40's and 50's to start universal health care. He takes efforts to show that doctors live
well in other countries despite the existence of universal health care. In follow-up interviews,
Moore has stated that he has spoken to and knows many doctors, and "doctors aren't the problem".

In the second half of the movie, Moore walks us through individual stories of the Canadian,
British, French, and Cuban health care systems where everything is free and - he reminds us
repeatedly - no one is ever denied service because they can't pay. In addition to health care, the
government provides free day care, college, and someone to do your laundry. Everybody gets along
and takes care of each other and life is beautiful because there is universal health care. As a
viewer, you are made to feel ashamed to be an American, a capitalist, and part of a 'me' society
instead of a 'we' society - and the lack of universal health care is held up in support of that
condemnation.

The Impact

Moore's movies are intentionally intense and his objective in Sicko seems to be to revive the
earlier Clinton efforts - not to achieve universal coverage with this movie, but to push the topic
to the top of the agenda. He will be just as successful whether proponents mount momentum or
discussion entails key stakeholders defending why it won't work.

As a health care industry educated viewer it is easy to pick out where Moore is cultivating
misperceptions to further a political agenda, but you will also recognize that 80%+ of the audience
will have their perceptions substantially affected. In demonstration of its impact, an informal
discussion group ensued outside the theatre after the movie. While some people recognized how one-
sided the presentation was, most were incredulous and "I didn't know they (the insurers) did that!"
was a common exclamation followed by a discussion of the example.

The unfortunate reality for Capital BlueCross is that as the market leader, we will be affected
both in brand and as employees as Moore's efforts in the movie and surrounding PR activity are seen
by more of the community. The impact on industry savvy Sales' contacts should be minimal, while
the impact on small business decision makers, our members, the community, and our employees could
be significant. Ignoring its impact might be a successful strategy only if it flops, but that has
not been the history of Moore's films nor the way this one appears to be headed. If popular, the
movie will have a negative impact on our image in this community.

There should be no doubt that many of our employees will be asked what they think of the movie by
friends, family, and neighbors. We should anticipate that our customer service people will be
asked about particular cases from the movie and if we follow similar policies. Word and phrases we
have routinely used to date in policy change communications or denial letters, such as
"Investigational", will be seen as affirming the film's contentions. The national BCBSA response -
while coming out against the film's divisiveness and focusing on the positive work of the Blues -
steers media inquiries about policies and denials back to the plans themselves.

There are 4 key areas of misperception cultivated by the movie that we should consider in any
messaging strategy:

1. That the industry is all about HMO's. Moore cultivates this further in his interviews.
The reality is that HMO's are a minority product and have been for some time.
2. The movie attacks insurers for a profit motive, but makes no distinction among for-profit
and non-profit insurers, and in its execution places the Blue Plans together with the for-profit
insurers.
3. All plans and employees - from leaders to service representatives - are painted as
motivated by profit to deny claims, and only those with crisis of conscience have come forward to
confess their sins.
4. Perhaps most damaging of all, Moore completely fails to address the most significant driver
of health care costs - our own lifestyle choices - and seeks to focus attention and efforts on the
alluring 'quick-fix' of universal health care. It has taken a generation of poor nutrition and
exercise to get obesity and related health issues - and subsequent costs - to their current levels,
and Moore's movie fails to acknowledge the causal relationship or need to change (he briefly
touches the subject in a non-memorable way). Contrast this to the recent Health Care Symposium
held in Harrisburg - where a panel of representatives from Government, Insurance, Hospitals,
Business, Physicians, and even Lawyers agreed on one thing - that there was no quick fix and that
Health and Wellness was the critical area of focus.

Suggestions

I believe the most successful strategy will not be in attacking the movie for its weaknesses or
misperceptions, but in distancing ourselves and our brand from the groups and motivations he
attacks, demonstrating the good that we do and achieve (aligns with BCBSA strategy), and in
articulating our disappointment that he did not address the truly relevant issue of improving our
health and wellness. We will convene a team to consider other approaches and work on potential
messages for media inquiries, customer service, and employees.

Confidential Memo (from partner)

SiCKO - viewed on 6/26/2007

Takeaways

* The main theme of the movie is that American society needs to focus on the "we" and not the
"me" in healthcare.

o This broad message is an overlay for the specific criticisms of the healthcare
industry - the movie asks where the morality of the American public lies and contrasts America's
approach to health care unfavorably with other nations.

* SiCKO does not go into any depth about how health insurers operate how the health insurance
business works - instead it fixates on what it characterizes as the profit incentive to deny care
to patients (e.g. examples of barriers to getting health insurance if you are not healthy;
examples of people being denied expensive tests or procedures; examples of efforts to deny
reimbursement after care has been received.)

* The film draws no distinction between not-for-profit and for-profit insurers - in fact the
Blue Cross/Blue Shield brand is intermixed with the for - profit brands as background reference
points.
o One scene shows a Blue Cross / Blue Shield logo as Michael Moore's voice over
begins, "While the healthcare companies get wealthy..."

* The health insurers that get the most airtime are:

o Kaiser Permanente
o Humana
o CIGNA
o Blue Cross of California
o Aetna

* No Pharma companies are mentioned - but SiCKO suggests in multiple instances that
prescription drugs are overpriced

o At a pharmacy in London, prescription drugs are £6.65, no matter how large the dose
o In Cuba, one bankrupt 9/11 worker's inhaler costs 5 cents, instead of $100
Further Notes
* Some of the examples of denial of care highlighted in the film:

o A woman with Kaiser Permanente takes her 18-month daughter to the hospital in an
ambulance, only to be told to go to an in-network hospital. By the time they reach the second
hospital, her daughter has stopped breathing and dies 30 minutes later in ER.

o A woman with Blue Shield of California has a tumor but is denied requests to get an
MRI, or to see a specialist. While on vacation in Japan she is given an MRI, and eventually
returns to the U.S. to demand treatment from her insurer.

* In the ensuing court case, a doctor admits to denying her request without
having reviewed it.

o Blue Cross of California approves one woman's $7,500 treatment, but the approval is
later denied for her failure to report a previous medical incident - a yeast infection.

* "They're just looking for a way out," she says

* Other examples of how health insurers avoid paying for treatment:

o One graph (from Humana) shows that doctors with the highest % of denials get a
bonus.

o Michael Moore interviews a former health insurance employee who specialized in
denying care to patients retroactively - by finding inconsistencies in their medical records.

o A 5-minute piece in the beginning of the movie .

* The film also focuses on the politicians and the funds they raise from Pharma and other player in the health care industry and alleges that the system has been heavily influenced by lobbyists and contributions.

Barclay Fitzpatrick
Vice President
Corporate Communications
Capital BlueCross
(w) 717-541-7752
(c) 717-329-3648
barclay.fitzpatrick@capbluecross.com
>

Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association

Talking Points in Response to Michael Moore’s “Sicko”
June 2007

1) The Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) and the 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield
companies are committed to improving the U.S. healthcare system for our nearly 100 million members
through continuous innovation that reflects the ever-changing healthcare landscape and the needs of
the consumer.

2) The Blues recognize the need for improvement of both the coverage and delivery of healthcare.
But the divisive tone set forth by Michael Moore and his movie "Sicko" is not helpful. Positive
change to our healthcare system can be best achieved through shared responsibility, not
recrimination. To ensure Americans have access to the best healthcare that is both timely,
efficient, and of high quality, requires the collective contribution of all stakeholders –
consumers, providers, employers and the government.

3) The Blues participation in the Health Coverage Coalition for the Uninsured is a primary example
of how the broader healthcare community is working together to reduce the number of uninsured in
the United States.

4) The Blues are working on myriad initiatives that ensure Americans have access to quality and
affordable healthcare. Each day, Blue Plans across the country are bringing healthcare value to
their members in a number of ways such as new advances in health information technology and greater
access to cost and quality information. In addition:
o The Blues recently created Blue Health Intelligence a data resource that will shine light on
emerging medical trends and treatment options in an unprecedented way. To further the use of
evidenced-based medicine, BCBSA has called upon Congress to establish an independent, payer-funded
institute that will study the comparative effectiveness of new and existing medical treatments and
procedures.
o Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies are at the forefront of healthcare transparency by
providing their members with online access to real-time information related to provider quality and
the cost of common healthcare services. In addition, the Blues have committed to making personal
health records available to their members by 2008.
o We are working to ensure that Medicare is funded appropriately and that seniors continue to
have access to comprehensive benefits.

5) The Blues are proud of these efforts and we will continue to work with consumers, providers,
employers and the government to provide Americans with the healthcare services and information they
need to lead full, healthy lives.

Erroll @ 8:

This ties in to a comment that I had posted regarding Katrina Vanden Heuvel. As Moore ably demonstrates in his film, Americans will never receive competent health care as long as it is predicated upon insurance companies reaping a profit. As someone said in Sicko, health care in this country should be considered a right instead of a privilege and the only way that can really be done is for the insurance companies to be taken out of the equation.

I agree with you that medical care should be better but "the right to to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" does not mention that medical care should be a right. When you say that everyone has a "right" to medical care, that is like saying you should get the exact same product regardless of how much you pay, that my friend is communism. Great theory, sucks in practice. Hell, sucks in theory as well.

Let me give you an example. I don't get sick much, I see the doctor maybe once a year for a physical. So almost all of my health insurance money goes towards that big money pool that everyone either adds to or deduct from. Now, another sickly person who pays the same amount of money for health insurance, goes to the doctor 40-50 times a year with all the special testing and proceedures to go along with that. They deduct alot more from the pool then they contribute.

Is it "right" that they take more than their fair share?

As a personal preference, I don't mind helping out that person. But when things become a "right" that person will take that part of my money regardless of what I want. You take away someone's choice of how their hard earned money is being spent and that is just plain wrong.

No one is entitled to have perfect health, you can only try for it.

Chaos

Have you actually seen Moore's film? What do you think should happen to not only those who do not have health insurance but to those who are not taken care of by the health insurance companies? Perhaps you are a believer in what one of Dickens' characters, Ebenezer Scrooge, said of the poor: "It is better that they die in order to decrease the surplus population."

The bottom line, which you seem to conveniently ignore, is that the United States is the richest country in the world and yet it is loath to guarantee that its citizens receive the best medical care on the planet. As Moore's film points out, the WHO ranks the U.S. 37th in health care around the world, just ahead of Slovenia but behind of Costa Rica. Contrary to what you say, I do indeed believe that everyone in this country should be entitled to the best health care that this government can and should provide for its citizens. You quote a part of the Declaration of Independence while ignoring the Preamble to the Constitution which states, among other things, that We the People should seek to "promote the general Welfare" which can certainly be interpreted to mean that the citizens of this country, like the citizens of other industrialized countries, should not have to needlessly worry whether their health care bills will be paid and whether they will have to declare bankruptcy because their bills have not been paid.

You certainly give new meaning to the term compassionate conservative [or would that be libertarian?].

What about the movie’s suggestion that Hillary Clinton might have been bought?
What do folks think about that?

Rasputin @ 65:

Private Freedom...

Still upchucking that same old libertarian BS eh?

First and foremost... private "for profit" health insurance are at the root of the problem. One third of every health care dollar goes to feed the massive bureaucracy necessitated by the insurance companies, a bureaucracy with one purpose… to minimize their losses, reduce their risks and maximize their profits by denying patients coverage.

It is a simple equation:

Deny coverage = maximized profits

It’s the only industry that turns away almost 40% of the people who apply and have the money, but get denied for pre-existing conditions. BC&BS of California got fined a million dollars this year by the states Inspector General because they were dropping women who got pregnant and individuals who got sick.

The last time you posted this:

“Please Mr. Amato, you can’t support Michael Moore and what he is doing, and then deny the existence of the only solution that is possible if we frame the debate in his terms. He is complaining how 50 million people don’t have health insurance. So what? Why is this a problem? See, many poor people from around the world come to the US in search of prosperity. Compared to what they had before, a life in the US without health insurance is way better than before. The fact that so many people don’t have insurance is a reflection of how many people, rich and poor, want to be in the US.”

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/01/mtvs-kurt-loder-does-hit-job-on...

It’s a problem because according to the study done by the Institute of Medicine 18,000 Americans die every year of diseases that were treatable but they didn’t have access to health care. We are one of the last major industrialized nations who don’t provide universal health care.

Frankly… your position that it is not a problem is the problem! It is blind self serving ego-centrism and as a direct result causes the death of 18,000 Americans and drives another 440,000 who had health insurance into bankruptcy each year. It is statement worthy of a sociopath!

Your other position that it is government is the problem is equally inane, it is an ideological stance driven by your libertarian philosophy and not substantiated by the facts. The average HMO in the US has an overhead of 17%, while Medicare runs with a 3% overhead efficiency rate.

A corporation is neither moral nor immoral… they are amoral in that they have one responsibility to their share holders… to make as much money as they can for their share holders. They are what they are and “risk management” for them is deny services and denying coverage. They do not belong in the heath care because of that fact.

Ahh, my old friend Rasputin...where have you been all this time?

OK, I know that you don't agree with my views, but you are not going to convince me otherwise, not because I don't listen to logic or evidence, but because you haven't presented anything that is convincing.

You say that the whole purpose of the insurance companies is to deny claims as a fraud. You are saying they are committing an offence that should be stopped. Well? Why are things nto being stopped then? Don't you think your trusty and honourable lawmakers should put a stop to it? Why are they sitting down and letting this supposed injustice go on? The answer of course is that the LAWS MADE BY THE GOVERNMENT are the reason this is going on in the first place!

You keep harping on the insurance companies and forgetting about everything else that is going on. You don't have full picture, nor do you have all the facts. I would suggest you start researching not only the data and statistical facts (profit levels, numbers of claims denied, etc), but also you should look up the laws and regulations that is currently guiding the whole healthcare industry.

Then, once you're done that, THEN respond to my arguments above. If you give me knee-jerk reactions typical of intellectually lazy people, I have no time for you. Please, stop giving the same old BS about the evil insurance companies. I heard it already. You should stop upchucking it.

In order to save myself from your invalid and boring points, you should start to look at the healthcare industry from a legal-historical perspective. One word of advice: Do not look at the writers' interpretation of the facts, just look at the facts as they happen. Prepare yourself to be blown away by all the laws and regulations that govern the industry and then ask yourself how you could have ignored such a drastic and easily identifiable set of circumstances that have been the direct cause of why things are the way they are.

I look forward to much better points then you have been giving over the last while.

sundog @ 78:

Sicko is truly a masterpiece. It ties in almost all the issue Progressives have been fighting for decades.

Sicko is the movie that ties all the other Michael Moore films together. We see that uncontrolled capitalistic greed has deeply demoralized the USA. Money goes to the biggest dogs and scrapes are left for the rest of us. I wonder how many people would get proper health care if we didn't throw money at a missile defense system or the newest laser guided bomb.

Let's get this agenda pushed down the throats of Congress: Free Health Care, Free Education (Pre-school to College), Free Retirement (a basic living standard for all elderly).

There's no reason that Americans need to be living in fear, stress, or lack of feeling that the country doesn't give a shit about them. Like the British MP said "living in fear, or demoralizing, or basically stupid, a voting public can be controlled." (something to that effect) Democracy is the opposite of this. I like what the expatriated American in France said, "In France the government is afraid of the people; In the US you have exact opposite."

Also for good measure, the government should provide Free ISP for the Internet. It should be the Constitution. Insurance for a people powered democracy. ;>)

My government cannot even coordinate putting pipes in the ground with paving a street. They paved a road near my office and a day later tore it up to put pipe in the ground and paved it again. Our government is big and inefficient, as with most governments. While I would love to see them buy fewer guns, bombs and crap like that, I do not want them controlling even more of my life. Government has utterly failed the public school system in most large cities, it has bankrupted Social Security, it has screwed up most things it has done (remember the laws that let these HMO's screw us over came from government).

No thanks, I would rather not have socialism. Instead I would like to have the real choice where I my hard earned money goes.

Everyone in the states should move up here to Canada. We'll take you all in ... lots of room. :)

Alvin @ 94:

OK I work for a large insurance company ...[stuff]... if you you people [sic] want better coverage TALK TO YOUR COMPANY. Self-funded plans are also not subject to state mandates and regulations. I work for one of the companies in Sicko. Over 90 percent of our clients are self-funded. All we can do is cover what they tell us to cover. Before you go blaming insurance companies take a close look at your employer first.

Oh get real. People who don't get insurance through their employer have no leverage to negotiate and they get their coverage retroactively yanked if they get sick. There's no point to buying your own coverage.

Um zio sheep.

Please do not refer to humans as "THOSE people" they are people just like you. Why would it be any differnt to support them or anoyone else.

Please keep your religous views to your self.

I am self-employed and pay a hefty monthly premium for the "privilege" of simply having insurance coverage. I was recently concerned about a problem MY CHILD was having and made a doctor's appointment. It was almost time for his two year old checkup so I asked to do that too at the same time same doctor. Because it was TWO WEEKS before he actually turned two, I was told that MY INSURANCE WOULD NOT COVER THE TWO YEAR CHECKUP PART OF HIS VISIT AND THAT I WOULD NEED TO MAKE A SEPARATE APPOINTMENT AFTER HE TURNED 2!!!!! WTF! My child may have a serious problem and I am forced to pay twice or be a bad parent and wait two weeks. Of course, I took him to the doctor when I wanted to and paid the entire cost out of pocket. I had to make it clear to my PEDIATRICIAN's office that I choose when my child gets medical care not BCBS. And BCBS accuses me of running up medical costs for going to the doctor too often! And no, for you doubters, this is NOT A FLUKE. Another doctor in another place actually told my husband that he would have to make two separate appointments to see the same doctor BECAUSE OF INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS! These were not major brain surgery type issues simply look at my foot and look at my arm type things. I kid you NOT. So, keep it up Michael Moore no matter how much they f^&&&k with you because you Are doing God's WORK!

Now, let's see how fast they cancel my insurance for some made up bulls**&^t reason just because I dared to complain. Rot in h&&&&ll BCBS and all insurance companies like them (are there any that are not)?

So much for the land of the free and compassionate!

jon - Why not give (approx) $10 Billion a year to the Palestinians? They arent the ones breaking international law on a daily basis. They need healthcare too! (Read the UN reports on the crisis in the Occupied Palestinian Territories) -- THOSE people... The ones that fry our congressmens asses if they stand up to them, the ones that killed 130 Palestinian children last year ( - vs - 1 Israeli child killed) - AN STILL PLAY THE VICTIM CARD! THOSE are the people Im talking about. I have no problem with religion. I have a problem with Zionist law breakers and scammers. THOSE are the people.

I found the reference to "exceptional cases" in the document to be ridiculous. Anyone who hasn't had difficulties with their own health insurance companies has surely been witness to such experiences amongst friends and colleagues. I'm 26 and completely healthy. Here are the things I've been denied by Georgia insurers:

1) Birth control (Mega told me that if they don't provide it to men they shouldn't have to provide it to women either)
2) Coverage by BCBSGA. Having a Urinary Tract Infection (the 2nd most common reason to visit the doctor) meant that I couldn't even be considered for coverage until one year had elapsed. This was my first clue that to keep insurance meant that I could never USE insurance.
3) I now have insurance through my employer. Here are the risk factors listed in my policy documents: 1-Being a woman 2-Not having any children yet.

As a student abroad, I was on NHS in the UK. I was shocked to see my classmates have immediate access to a physician, have house calls when they were too sick to travel, and best of all...they didn't have to wait three days until the next pay period to be able to afford a ridiculously overpriced antibiotic to cure an infection.

Asking for a better medical delivery system isn't babyish, although name calling is.

No less than U.S. Comptroller General David Walker says we have to improve the system or it will bring down either our Medicare/Medicaid programs, or it will bring down our country.

Also this is all a part of the Constitutional right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Is the constitution for babies or wiping one's butt in booshco's case?

Medical researchers get plenty of tax money for research, why shouldn't the tax payers get some benefit?

Hey persephone, we are paying attention and I am glad that there are still some of you left. I personally left an insurance company job in my state because I felt like my soul was being sucked out and replaced with coal. Also, I have to say that it is really not that easy to get insurance somewhere else if you are not eligible for private at least in my state. If you make a dollar over a ridiculously low annual income you and even your kid are not eligible in my state. And if you have health concerns well that just makes it even more complicated. And don't get me started on the folks who can't get a job because they got sick, lost a job, got bad credit and now can't get another job or HEALTH INSURANCE because they had bad luck. SO, it is not insurance customers who are not paying attention, it is the people making the most $$$$ off the current system. who don't want to pay attention. But, thank you personally for trying.

You've got to love the people attacking SiCKO and "Socialized" medicine. I'd bet most haven't seen the movie and the rest have an agenda against something which they don't understand.

Let's look at some FACTS:
- We pay way more per capita than countries with 'socialized' medicine.
- We are not as healthy.

For the 'healthy' people who don't go to the doctor that often and complain about paying for stuff they don't use, I guess you want to opt out of the library, 911 and schools? Let's hope you pre-pay your 911 bill before your next fire/break-in.

Yes, insurance companies are driven by our laws. However, they legally bribe our elected officials with campaign contributions. So before you blame employers (who are holding the bag), why not ask your corporate officials to get the laws changed? Why is it that the CEO of Walmart and Safeway are asking for National Health Care (not insurance)?

Check out NPR's Fresh Air today: It's a good review of SiCKO, and provides some more background information.

For every 'horror story' of national health systems, I'm quite willing to bet my paycheck that you can find 10 more horror stories in the US. The UK NHS is probably underfunded, though increased funds don't always mean better care (e.g. US).

Anyone ever heard of a foreign national coming to the US and getting free care? Nope, didn't think so (oh wait, there are those guys in Gitmo...) I've heard, first hand from US citizens who went to places like New Zealand, and got first rate care, quickly and with minimal or low cost. Heck my pregnant wife just spent a night in hospital in Malaysia and it cost her $10, tests and medicine included.

Let's get real people, universal medical care should be a right.

Yes, we do need to take some responsibility for our "lifestyles". Eating junk food and not exercising is a lifestyle choice but diseases are not.

When we're done with this, we can work on interest free school loans (with a total cost cap) - yeah, I'm not on the free school for everyone band-wagon....yet. You can't get free ride forever. When college/university becomes mandatory, then it should be free.

But i digress....

Less government is the answer, not more.

http://unalienable.blogspot.com/2007/07/independence-day-perfect-opportunity-to.html

Courtney @ 113:

I found the reference to "exceptional cases" in the document to be ridiculous. Anyone who hasn't had difficulties with their own health insurance companies has surely been witness to such experiences amongst friends and colleagues. I'm 26 and completely healthy. Here are the things I've been denied by Georgia insurers:

1) Birth control (Mega told me that if they don't provide it to men they shouldn't have to provide it to women either)
2) Coverage by BCBSGA. Having a Urinary Tract Infection (the 2nd most common reason to visit the doctor) meant that I couldn't even be considered for coverage until one year had elapsed. This was my first clue that to keep insurance meant that I could never USE insurance.
3) I now have insurance through my employer. Here are the risk factors listed in my policy documents: 1-Being a woman 2-Not having any children yet.

As a student abroad, I was on NHS in the UK. I was shocked to see my classmates have immediate access to a physician, have house calls when they were too sick to travel, and best of all...they didn't have to wait three days until the next pay period to be able to afford a ridiculously overpriced antibiotic to cure an infection.

Sorry my friend. NHS is not the answer. It is good if you have an emergency like a heart attack. They will take you right in and help you out but you can wait for your turn for years to have your hip replaced or deal with bone spurs and a whole list of stuff like that. There are always more needy people in line before you. Also, everyone winds up going to the hospital for a cold or a band aid. Sorry, the system is as bad or worse as the one we already have. If it doesn't work in Canada with 20 million people (give or take) what make you think it will work here with over 300 million people.

Steve Fraioli @ 123:

Sorry my friend. NHS is not the answer. It is good if you have an emergency like a heart attack. They will take you right in and help you out but you can wait for your turn for years to have your hip replaced or deal with bone spurs and a whole list of stuff like that. There are always more needy people in line before you. Also, everyone winds up going to the hospital for a cold or a band aid. Sorry, the system is as bad or worse as the one we already have. If it doesn't work in Canada with 20 million people (give or take) what make you think it will work here with over 300 million people.

Steve, pray tell, how long have you lived in Canada, eh? I've lived in Canada all my life and I have no complaints about the system here. I have had friends and family require surgery--everything from hysterectomy to eye-surgery to a double-lung transplant. The wait times in each case were quite reasonable. You seem to forget that in Canada we had (in living memory) a system identical to the one in the United States; a system we overwhelmingly rejected. Virtually no one wants to go back to the way it was before Medicare. Sure, the system isn't without its flaws--but to say that it doesn't work, compared with the health-care train wreck you have in the United States? Really, now!

That should have been Ian, not Steve I was referencing. I will figure out this comment system some day...

[...] And in our ongoing death match against healthcare insurance complex in general and Blue Cross in particular, Michael Moore’s SiCKO is out.  I haven’t seen it yet because I’m afraid that my head will explode from frustration.  Over the weekend, Crooks and Liars linked to the bit of news that Michael Moore got his hands on Blu... [...]

I notice that critics of National Health Services always talk about the long waits for operations, yet Canadians generally have no complaints EXCEPT for hip and knee replacement surgery. For some reason there's a shortage of orthopedic surgeons. Life and death operations are done as quickly as possible, and I vowed to spread the word about our system after my successful brain surgery 7 years ago.

The CBC held a vote last year for the greatest Canadian and guess who won: Tommy Douglas, the guy who brought in Universal Health Care. (He's Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather btw)

Seepeesate says that every country with National Health Care also has private care. Not true in Canada. We are resisting "for profit" medicine, even though there are right-wingers trying to make it happen for the sake of the money involved. To have two levels of care, one for the rich and one for the poor, would likely not be good for Canadians. We have excellent care here, and the sickest are the ones who go to the head of the line. Nobody can buy their way in.

ali @ 126:

Steve Fraioli @ 123:

Sorry my friend. NHS is not the answer. It is good if you have an emergency like a heart attack. They will take you right in and help you out but you can wait for your turn for years to have your hip replaced or deal with bone spurs and a whole list of stuff like that. There are always more needy people in line before you. Also, everyone winds up going to the hospital for a cold or a band aid. Sorry, the system is as bad or worse as the one we already have. If it doesn't work in Canada with 20 million people (give or take) what make you think it will work here with over 300 million people.

And why exactly would it not work? NHS works pretty well for 60 million in the UK.

There are some problems, but nothing like the 17% of people here with no insurance and many others with inadequate insurance. Wait lists in the UK have fallen dramatically since 1996 (no one waiting > 12months) Even before this, only 2% waited longer than 12 months, compared to 17% of Americans who now wait infinite time because they have no coverage. 80% of people in the UK are treated within for in-patient care within 6 moths. It is not perfect, but it is a heck of a lot better than the US.

I'm sure you'll bring out the isolated problems of the NHS as an example of all its problems though.

There is no national/universal health system that is perfect. The bigger they are, the more opportunities for problems. However, the end results: life expectancy, infant mortality, etc., prove them to be much better than the US system.

There are other things we would need to do in addition to a universal health coverage in the US. We would need to drive down the costs of medical school (grants and interest free loans); liability reforms; eliminate political interference (I hate to say it, but the government is there to sign the check and provide oversight, but not to interfere); increase accountability of the bureaucrats; improve funding transparency (lets NOT have the DoD do the books).

Oh, and maybe hold people accountable for their lifestyle choices of crap food and no exercise. Corporate America needs to be responsible for the crap they target at kids. They need to prove their products are safe, not me proving they are unsafe.

If you will criticize universal coverage, please provide constructive criticism, not the fear-mongering that Republicans are so good at. Please prove to us that health insurance is better than universal health care. Right now, the facts show that universal health coverage is better and cheaper.

I'm sure that you could come up with good and bad in both systems. All I ever heard about (mostly people in England) was not good. As a matter of fact, the friends I have there mostly use private health care just so they don't have to wait months on end to get health care. There are too many people that don't have insurance here in the states but one has to look far and wide to find someone that is injured and refused care in any hospital. We have 20 or so million people that aren't even citizens and they get care. Also, if I need any serious surgery, my ass will be in Columbia Hospital or UCLA Medical Center because I know that being in one of those hospitals, I will ge the best care in the world.

“You would have to be dead to be unaffected by Moore’s movie…”

Unfortunately, there are plenty of people that would be affected by this movie if they hadn't been subjected to unhelpful health care coverage.

Steve Fraioli @ 135:

There are too many people that don't have insurance here in the states but one has to look far and wide to find someone that is injured and refused care in any hospital.

Hospitals in the US are legally required to provide enough emergency care to "stabilize" the patient in the short term, so what you say is technically true. They are not required to provide anything more than than that, though. If you're talking about real, actual, long-term care and not just a band-aid, it's pretty darned easy to find people who can't get it. It's not even that hard to find people who have died because they couldn't afford it.

Down with Bush, see the petition:
http://zonow.com/33

Private Freedom @ 108:

Passing Through @ 101:

Just a word of advice to you, you are in the "lion's den" here when it comes to making sense. Keep that up and people will start to believe you are thinking for yourself instead of the party line.

I also have no clue as to why people think they would rather be taken care of like poor little children instead of standing up for oneself and living their lives the way they want. Babies, all of 'em.

Maybe you'll have the luck to never have a problem with your healthcare provider in the extent of your lifetime, or be at least somewhat lucky and live to old age before anything tragic happens. On the other hand, maybe you won't.

Maybe tomorrow you will end up with a systemic infection of poison oak and no healthcare.

Maybe tomorrow, you will be assaulted outside your house by a neighbor high on something and left bleeding on the ground, with no memory of who you are, let alone who your provider is, and be told that because you went to the wrong hospital your insurance will not cover it despite the obvious insanity of expecting somebody who can't recall their own name or where they live being charged for managing to somehow hitch a ride to the wrong hospital.

Maybe tomorrow you'll have a complication in dental work, requiring general anaesthetic because nothing local from three dentists has worked so far, and be told that you must pay for it out of your own pocket because if everybody else has no problem, clearly it's your choice to be resistant to the methods being used to anaesthetize you.

Those things have happenned to me, all of them. The head-trauma incident actually occured while enlisted in the Navy and covered by their plan; if you can believe that bullshit.

Maybe, if you're really unlucky, you'll end up like my coworker; refused treatment locally until she had a stroke. years later, she still has lost most control over half of her body.

Then again, maybe you won't. But if even if you don't, it still could have happened to you.

Any of it, and worse.

Even if it doesn't, your good luck and good fortune does not constitute a deficiency of any sort upon those who haven't lead your charmed life. Your attitude, belittling those who have paid for healthcare and been mangled by it, or who have the misfortune of not being able to find insurance, on the other hand, betrays a serious deficiency in you yourself.

I try to keep a cabinet of anti-biotics, painkillers (the kind that are OTC everywhere but here), type 1 and 2 anti-histamines, a suturing kit, pseudo-ephedrine (since it got taken more or less of the damn shelves), and if i could find the training to use it properly the next time it might save my life, i'd keep steroids for suppressing runaway immune responses in there as well; because the last time I needed a doctor to administer them, I couldn't afford it and suffered out of work for two months.

I'm insured now, but you never know when that might disappear. No matter what kind of hotshot you are, you're still bound to your local economy, and even insured, as that time i was assaulted in my own damn driveway demonstrated, you can't rely on our healthcare system to care about you in the slightest.

Do what you can to protect yourself, because in the end, those you pay to do so may very well fail you. That's my advice to you.

Stop being so childish as to think avoidance of misfortune by pure chance somehow elevates you above 'babies' who have had an experience traumatic enough to make them desire a swift, bullshit free resolution to the next time something like it happens, should it ever happen again; and if you can't manage that, at least keep your trap shut so the rest of the informed world doesn't need to waste it's time gawking at the narrow-sightedness you demonstrate.

That's what common decency would demand of you, if it had more than a tenebrous existence in our society in the first place.

--shrikefeather

That's what he's told us, anyway. I notice he's not fully disclosing any more.

Some people love to complain about the Canadian health care sytem but here is an example of the difference. I got in accident in San Fran. The asked for my credit card at the hospital. I see a doctor in Canada they ask for my health card.

Americans Have Friends In India

Three Americans living in Mumbai (Bombay), India for 20+ years formed a company called America's Medical Solutions www.americasmedicalsolutions.com . There are no fees as the Indian hospitals pay them to hold your hand from getting the necessary passport or visa to seeing that your every comfort is met while having major surgery. They can even plan an excursion for you, if you're up to it, either before or after the surgery. No medical need is too sophisticated, from in vitro fertilization with long term stays, to in and out dental veneers or implants in one day. LASIK surgery to hip resurfacing is all available by the most experienced doctors and sterile hospitals in the world. They are Joint Commission International Accredited and Harvard Medical International associates, etc., with unbelievably affordable prices for those with or without insurance. These Americans know exactly what Americans need and expect, but as one of their directors said, "Americans can't believe what they get, as our surgeons and technologies are the finest and most experienced in the world. It's a pity the US hasn't had the equipment and technology as long as India has, and the US has simply priced themselves out of the market." They are negotiating health plans with major insurers and employers. Most credit card limits will allow a person to get on a plane and get all his medical needs solved within the time of a vacation.