CNN "Reality Check" That Got Michael Moore Fired Up
By Logan Murphy Sunday Jul 08, 2007 8:45pmHere is Dr. Sanjay Gupta's "Sicko Reality Check" segment that preceded Michael Moore's heated interview with The Beard, earlier this evening on CNN.
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frist
Just waiting for the wing nuts and corporate tools to show up. Where are you guys? You're usually right on top of the action.
I saw it and Moore was DEAD CENTER RIGHT ON!
Besides, I'm flat sick on "Gupta" and the whole damn CNN political manipulation game.
I want something like Michael Moore TV Media outlet.
Distorted "facts" by the shill.
I don't think based on what Dr. Gupta presented that Michael Moore "fudged the facts". Moore selectively used statistics, but Gupta was really grasping at straws to prove Moore wrong. The only fudging here was in Wolf's pants when Moore got done with him.
Nothing like a nice hit job before an interview to muddle the real facts.
Corporate world we live in.
We the people was gone a long time ago. Unless we stand up and claim it back.
I must have missed something. Dr. Gupta states that Mr. Moore fudged the facts (oh yes indeedy, he did!) but if one is talking about cost per capita figures between the US and Cuba, I'd say that the "real" dollar figures vs. MM's figures are not that far off. Suffice it to say the difference in cost doesn't translate to significantly better care. I worked in health care for 20 years and the system sucks. It needs a lot of work and not just a bunch of piece meal crap that's been the mainstay of the industry since the early '80's and the DRG debacle. And if Moore accomplishes NOTHING, but getting people to pay attention to the sorry state of health care, I think he's done a great service for our country.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea to post this cnn propaganda on this site?
Ruse #1: Claim that because the other countries systems aren't perfect, it's not worth trying.
Ruse #2: Claim that because US citizens live a little bit longer than Cubans (a very poor country under the burden of a US embargo) that their system doesn't work. To be honest, they should compare Cuba's system to another Latin American country like Columbia's (a US client state).
BTW, Cuba does have a lower infant death rate than the US.
What is the deal? Don't these tools understand? We are wasting SO MUCH MONEY on health care.
I'm writing a letter to CNN, again. Assholes.
The system HERE is broken. It's just a matter of time before it implodes.
It's time to take capitalism out of medicine. Medicine should be a nonprofit business. PERIOD.
DR. Guppie is a liar. The facts are right there on Moores website. Moore does say The exact numbers so gupta lied. Paid per patient 229$ in Cuba 6,9oo something for the US Thats exactly what Moore has in the film.
I looked at this closely and they actually say to mutually contradictory things "his facts are right" and "he fudged the facts." How can they get away with this? In part by having a "Health Care Consultant" from private industry explain the company line.
Anyone know what the good doctor earns from CNN?
Oh, that CNN is quick to see whether "controversial" Michael Moore's facts check out. They did a "reality check" on his new movie, and almost everyone has something to say.
But when it comes to the "facts" that our government pushes every day, CNN doesn't want to look too deeply. What a surprise.
And those 5% or so in other countries "going outside the system"? Was it for things like boob & nose jobs?
It's a load of crap. I mean come on. We are the only Western without Universal health care. Is it because we are right and they are wrong? All of them? Nah. And Cuba, a poor, poor country has a comparable lifespan to us and spends almost nothing per capita for health care. I can't believe CNN.
I think I would pay a little more taxes to prevent my fellow citizens from having go bankrupt just to get medical treatment. There's nothing wrong with helping the people in your country.
WTF is wrong with cnn usa?
lemme break it down for you..
here in germany and other parts of europe yes we pay more taxes but that money is pumped back into the health care system.
And NO NO AND NO do we have to sit here for hours to have a dr see us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more lies by CNN USA!
if you have a boo boo, you go to the drs on the spot,, of it if happens late at night, the DRS MAKE HOUSE CALLS!! from there its then determined if a hospital is the right course of treatment.
24/7 pharmacys that deliver drugs if your incapable of driving due to old age, being sick with the flu or a impacted wisdom tooth etc.
what dr. sanje is suggestion is pure bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and he knows it , the little lying bitch. abber what does he care? hes paid by CNN usa and makes millions every year to lie,, and cheat americans from the real truth. Now lets be honest,, if dr, sanje took ill with a terminal disease,, do YOU really think he would seek health care in the states? NO
´´"First World treatment' at Third World prices". The cost differential across the board is huge: only a tenth and sometimes even a sixteenth of the cost in the West. Open-heart surgery could cost up to $70,000 in Britain and up to $150,000 in the US; in India's best hospitals it could cost between $3,000 and $10,000. Knee surgery (on both knees) costs 350,000 rupees ($7,700) in India; in Britain this costs £10,000 ($16,950), more than twice as much. Dental, eye and cosmetic surgeries in Western countries cost three to four times as much as in India.´´
LINK http://www.health-tourism-india.com/why-india.html
SPARE US THE BULLSHIT CNN/USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael Moore "fudges facts"! How so? Stop asking questions. It's true because the media keeps saying it.
Moore's right. This is a hack job, missing the forest for the trees. And the assumed speed and efficiency of the American system is a myth. We wait months for appointments with MDs or PAs who hustle us in and and hustle us out, this system of insurance companies now encouraging patients to fly to India (!) for their health care. If we have to sneak into Canada for our drugs and fly to India for a bypass, how can anyone argue that the American system is working? It's sure working for doctors and hospitals and insurance companies, but the rest of us are screwed.
Please, raise my taxes and provide universal health care. It will cost me less than the small fortune I pay each month for insurance premiums.
I wonder how much health care $10 billion/month buys.
The only "fact" Gupta could find Moore "fudged" on was a numerical error in capita spending on health care in Cuba ($229 vs. $25), which Gupta admitted was so minuscule in comparison to the U.S. per capita ($7,000) that it had no effect on Moore's overall point. Therefore, it wasn't a "fudge."
Plus, the word "fudge" as a verb implies a deliberate, willful distortion rather than a researching or editing error. As such, Gupta failed to identify a SINGLE ITEM that Moore "fudged."
These folks at CNN can't even do an honest or competent "reality check."
Bottom line. We are the richest country on the planet. 37th is a national disgrace. this is what happens when half our federal budget goes to wars so Halliburton and the war profiteers can get no bid government contracts at our expense. Dr. Sanjaya forgets to mention that I see.
he straight called moore a liar. i would have been mad too if i were moore.
...the average American should be as well covered as Dick Cheney for his umpteenth triple bypass in the best hospitals by the best doctors. Dr. Sanjaya forgets to mention this also.
I'm surprised that Moore didn't mention Congress's health care coverage.
These people need to talk to people like me who've actually dealt with multiple systems as a patient.
I lived in Canada for years, and while their system is not perfect (yes there are often waiting times for non-emergency surgeries, the key words being 'non-emergency' ) I would take it in a heartbeat over the costly clusterfuck I deal with here in the United States. You'd have to be crazy to do otherwise.
My wife is Canadian, and I have dual citizenship. We're here because of my work, and we're not staying a minute past retirement. It's not safe to be old and of modest means in this country.
If I listen to CNN it's for recreational purposes only....
Sad to say.....
To hear Michael Moore call something a hit piece is the height of hypocrisy!
John Doheny @ 27:
Do you take stowaways? ....
Wow, and I thought it was the 2:37 character character assassination "Who is Michael Moore" that those bastards have up on the CNN website that got him so pissed off. Jeez, if you search Moore's name on that site you'll see hackery the likes of which would make Bill O'Reilly blush. Unbelievable. But gawd was it great to see him eat wolfie's lunch on live TV. You can bet your ass that's not on the Situation Room homepage!
Gupta stated that approx. 15 percent of French citizens purchase additional health services/insurance above and beyond the publicly funded health services. Gupta presents this factoid as if it is proof that the French public health system is not very good. Well, first, this statistic means that 85 percent of French people do not go outside the public health services. Second, it means that the 15 percent may be (a) very rich and can afford the best health care money can buy or (b) have very specific or unique health needs. Gupta never tells us what the numbers mean. Without that, the statistic is totally irrelevant to Moore's movie and the U.S. lack of health system.
What is CNN/Gupta's angle? Seriously. Can someone simply tell me why they are lying in this report? And I'm not talking about lying about Michael's facts, but just simply LYING over what is in the movie? (Like Gupta's little comment on people waiting in Canada's waiting rooms in every scene, when one of those scenes Michael is asking them how long have they been waiting.)
Why did he even go ON that show? Gahhhhhh.
And for the love of god, what is Drudge's problem with Moore? GRRRRRR.
Guten Nacth C&L folks !!
take care and call your local sen/cong/ppl.
its time for a damn change in the states where health care is the last thing on any of the canidates minds.
everyone cheered for obama getting 32/million dollars for his politcal war chest?????????
um,, folks,, wheres the cheering for the ppl sick with cancer that are approved for a home loan equity ?
they will never live to pay that off, hence,, forget the bankrupt laws,, as GWB and congress old and new,, wont turn that around anytime soon!!!!!!!!!!!!
god bless the folks in the USA!! NOw please take it to the streets!! picket,, march, etc. otherwise,, well i guess ill be having the same topic thread come 2008.
Regards,,
The Baker,
oh my regards to SAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hello old friend.
baby jesus only goes to the best doctors, the best
even baby jesus has to wait for hours, the better the doctor the longer the wait
baby jesus still asks, why won't all the humans help each other to be healthy?
This isn't the first time Gupta has been wrong. I won't say he represents what is wrong with young doctors in the U.S., because he isn't as arrogantly ignorant as some, but he isn't who I would choose to be my primary care physician. He's arrogant enough, ignorant enough and wrong often enough to not deserve the title of doctor.
PLEASE, don't let them insult your intelligence any longer or try to scare you all with idea that public health care will mean poor service or higher taxes.
Never forget that your president, vice president, senate, congress, judiciary system and all government employees across the land, including the military, all have public health care, paid for by you with your tax dollars, AND IT IS FAIRLY GOOD, despite Walter Reed.
The war alone will now consume an estimated 467 billion dollars of your tax money at a time when the government agrees it can give certain wealthy citizens tax breaks and still fund this war and numerous other expenditures.
Remember six years ago when the US government had no debt and they were arguing over what to do with the excess money they had collected in taxes.
It is embarrassing to have to remind you that for all the excess spending you received, an endless war, a wall on the southern border to keep out low paid Mexican workers whom you have invited in to do grunt work for which you refuse to pay a decent wage with health benefits in the first place, political corruption on a very large scale, a smaller, new, more water resistant version of the old New Orleans, expensive smart bombs that have an uncanny ability to find civilians instead of the enemy, a dangerous flying machine that can not decide if it is an airplane or a helicopter but has proven itself to be a lame elephant, even the great white hunter Dick Cheney tried but could not kill it, deteriorating US cities with zones of lawlessness, where no investments are being made, no efforts to restore the peace, provide security, provide jobs, educate the children or promote democracy. All this and much much more wasted effort and spending and yet you all do not have health care or better stated you do not have health care for all. Try to think of yourselves as “we the people” for a moment and not “me the people”. Clearly you all can have health care and it will not cost you all any more tax dollars than what you are currently paying. The beautiful part is, as stated in the movie, Americans really are not paying that much in taxes and yet you can manager to do all those ridiculously expensive things mentioned above. Without raising taxes you ALL can have a well functioning health care system. You are already paying a sufficient amount of taxes, you just don’t receive anything useful for it. Why not ask, demand that something useful, fair and just be done with your tax dollars.
Regarding Heather's post: The "other side" isn't another political party, it's the people who profit off of debt itself, the financial institutions. It's the people who profit off of providing less healthcare, the insurance companies. It's the oil companies who profit off of a non-renewable, environmentally destructive form of energy and the reason that they are so profitable is because our "free market" economic system cannot properly account for costs (which would bring us back to the economics being taught at most universities across the country). The costs don't disappear, they get socialized into years lost on our lives, higher healthcare costs and destruction of our environment, which turns around and becomes economic costs. It's the structure of the corporation, who allowed limited liability for artificial persons, making the owners of the corporations un-accounted for in regards to the horrors they create worldwide. It's the fact that "free trade" has created a situation in this country where the only thing we now export is weapons and capital intensive agriculture. Fighting a "war on terror" while we militarize the rest of the world. It's institutions like the NED who fund anti-democratic regimes elsewhere or try to undermine democratic governments who dare to pass legislation that benefits their citizens more than Western investors. Michael Moore is what every journalist should be, holding those in power of these, and similar institutions, accountable for their actions. We've created an economic and social system that refuses to do so, someone has to. What are "the people" supposed to do if they don't have the basic information in front of them to make sense of an issue and the people who are supposed to be delivering the information (the giant media corporations) have an economic incentive to NOT educate the people? I am politically active person, I’m not “bitching” or “whining”. I’m a citizen of a country that is a cancerous element to the rest of the world. We undermine democracies, bomb countries (for decades, for instance more bombs were dropped on Cambodia in the early 1970’s than all bombs dropped on the Allies during WWII) to rubble, lobby for the destruction of eco systems, push for an economic system that accumulates capital but destroys country’s social fabric and environment and we refuse to change. Again, it isn’t whining, I’m f$%$ing outraged by the citizens of my country and ashamed to call myself an American and I don’t believe people are open enough to changes that would work because they’re too “radical” or whatever. I agree that people need to get active and organize, I disagree that we shouldn’t “point fingers” or try to see who is creating, and profiting, off of our problems. The people who are have an incentive to see that the issues aren’t solved. How do you get around this without acknowledging that fact?
[Deleted-Thanks for the attempt at flamebaiting, but no thanks-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Again, this is flamebaiting. You are being as disingenuous as you claim Michael Moore is. It's not going to fly here-Sitemonitor]
Joe @ 349:
Earth to Joe: CNN will air Part II tonight at 7:00 pm EDT -- unedited, according to their website.
BTW, LOVED your movie, but didn't Peter Boyle die about a year ago?
Dr. Gupta made it sound as if seeing a doctor here in Canada is next to impossible. Besides the hospital emergencies, we have community clinics open seven days/week. Our system isn’t perfect and yes there are waiting lists for “elective” surgeries, but everyone gets treated here in Canada. If you need an emergency operation, it doesn’t matter who you are, how much money you have or what color you are, if you need the surgery, you get the surgery.
Is CNN and Gupta proud that the USA is 37th and Cuba 39th in Health Care. Gupta said that like it was good thing! My God, 37th! But #1 in satisfaction. Does that tell you something about how we have all be fooled by putting our doctors and hospitals up on pedestals? I have some experience in Washington, DC; ask anyone who was there when health care comes up, ask anyone who was there when Clinton first took office and health care was a top priority, ask anyone who will tell you the truth. The health care lobby was up and running 24/7. I had a long time friend, a Senator, tell me you wouldn't have believed the money that poured into that town to stop any reforms. Why? Best the large "health care" companies are making millions. Off who, off us. How can the same exact prescription be so much cheaper in Canada? How can for example Allegra, a simple allergy medication (made by the French by the way) be so much cheaper everywhere else but the US? How?
Come on folks, are you really still supporting the Bush administration? Hell, their own senators don't believe them anymore!
PS Just for the record - - STOP talk about FDR and social programs. FDR's social programs were NOTHING compared to LBJ's, check the congressional record, not even a contest. FDR did nothing compared to the programs passed by the LBJ administration.
Hooray for Michael Moore.. Mr. Moore keep up with your good film-making you tell the story well and accurate. I liked your other film too about 911 and felt that it was right on target..
Hooray for Michael Moore. He tell the facts like it is..
Why is Moore unable to answer questions about his facts; could he be anymore defensive. If he disagrees with Wolfe, have a discussion.
We need to compare apples to apples. In Cuba they place HIV+ patients in restricted camps so the virus won't spread, lousy for human rights and not mentioned by Moore.
We need to compare statistics that included obesity, smoking, alcohol and drug use-problems that will effect an affluent free society. In my opinion Moore is a hypocrite--he manipulates to support his opinion; the very same sin he criticizes government and corporations about. We all benefit from honest facts.
Wicked Legs: Sounds like you need to move. I am a proud American that knows things need to be fixed. And that Michael more is an idiot. Sorry. Can't help saying it.
LZ @ 369:
OK, let's talk about the UK's NHS system or the Canadian system then where the obesity, diet, and other factors are similar to the US and there is no restricted HIV camps either. Would that not be more apples to apples comparison then, rather than Cuba? The statistics bear out that the US is still behind despite spending more per person individually.
How does that happen?
The reason why Moore went to Cuba was to try and impress the fact that our government was treating members of Al-Quaeda better in terms of health care than our 9/11 heroes. Let's not obscure the facts here. When they disallowed him into Guantanamo, which he knew the US would, he had arranged for Cuba to treat them knowing they were below us on the scale, impoverished, under a totalitarian regime, with universl health care... where they recieved better treatment and affordable drugs.
Let us not lose the forest for the trees.
I think both presentation make valid points and both have their own prejudice.
Cuba ranks 39th and spends 280 a year while the US sepends 6900 and is only
37. Why such a discrepency. I doubt the difference is statistically significant. Yes Americans have a shorter Waiting time.
But is a shorter waiting time a meaningfull measure of medical care.
What is meant by Customer Satisfaction?. This is Health Care, we treat is as
a product/service and not a life necessity. I bet if asked the millions without health
care if they would tolerate longer wait time for less expensive service they
would select longer wait times. Furthermore, I belong to one of the Best HMO
is the country by customer survey and I ofter wait not non emergency routine visits.
This whole issue of wait tile is overblown.
What Mr Gupta's report demonstrates; if you have Health care things are
OK. If you don't your needs don't matter.
Really Joe? "Things need to be fixed". Way to acknowledge the obvious in the most generalized way without having to say anything specific. That way, when someone like me does montion something specific, you can say either that I'm too radical or I should leave the country and not have to do anything but look up and see what color the sky is. I do need to move, because most of the time when someone like myself says the above, all factually true, we get the cookie cutter response you gave. You know what though, I do plan on leaving and when the economy begins to more obviously resemble Argentina earlier in the decade, I'll be enjoying my universal healthcare elsewhere and will have an I told you so attitude about people like yourself. You had access to information to understand an issue, you had the power to change things and you did nothing but attack those trying to do something.
"No wonder Michael is so fat. He has control issues."
Thus spews Jose Bung...btw Jose, we're still laughing at your lame BS over at SadlyNo.
Adam Smith @ 254:
When the RIGHT thing to do is at stake the debate stops and action starts. We have been participating in this debate for so long and nothing has changed. I watched the film, but I am not ill informed. The system is messed up and if you don't notice it then you are a fool.
and btw I love doing research papers....and I am more than likely far more educated than you.
I just know when something as important as this issue is still being debated into the ground inaction will prevail.
You want to insult me some more send me over an email at therefly@gmail.com and we will duke it out fool.
I hear comments that Bush has done nothing to fix the health care system. So doesn't that mean that we still have the same health care system that we had under Clinton? So how come Moore didn't make his movie 8 years ago?
As a Canadian citizen, I have had complete satisfaction with our system, and it is very affordable. We have an employer health tax, so companies pay or a lot of it. You know, the ones making all the profits, but not giving us raises. There is no need to purchase extra insurance.
Crissy @ 377:
Did you live during the time of the Clinton years? Actually Hillary Clinton had a task force during term 1 that was demonised before her task force's papers were even presented and debated. Same arguments you see from those in favour of the status quo in US health care were brought up:
1. long lines
2. rationed services
3. dimished care
4. government ineptitude
5. reduced research for new drugs
6. first part of a plan to "socialise" the country
Of course the findings were never formally presented because the Clinton administration was so besieged and abused on this issue, they thought it more politically expedient to drop it rather than "fight the good fight" and present the findings for debate and possibly have an even better system in the process.
[...] invaluable political watchblog Crooks and Liars is hosting a ten-minute clip of Michael Moore on CNN’s “The Situation Room”, in which the filmmaker unleashes [...]
Oh, and Moore did have a programme on NBC (i think?) called the Awful Truth where he took on HMO's. I believe his website still has the clips for viewing, so yes he was critical of this during the Clinton years as well and he takes Hillary on in the movie as well for inaction.
Michael Moore is a big fat dog poopie!
Crissy @ 377:
How come he didn't make it 2 years ago? Consider also Moore's lower prominence pre-Fahrenheit; it'd been ignored.
An interesting, but irrelevant question.
Jody @ 233:
THIS IS FOR THE PEOPLE FROM THE U.S.A.
As I am from Barcelona Spain and I can be robbed, smashed, killed and barbequed by American foreign policy. Please send this neocon crooks to ?¿
This is to Jody @ 233
have you ever been in planet Earth?
So instead, we pay higher taxes for stealth bombers and stupid f#%&ing wars in Iraq!!
[Deleted.Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted.Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Wicked legs:
If you would have taken the time to read my earlier posts, you would have seen my specific gripes. My point is, that if you are embarrassed to be an American, then you shouldn't be one. This is still the greatest country in the world even with it's flawed health, legal, and 2 party systems. No other country in the world will give you the rights that you have here. Wether you use them, is up to each individual. If a person doesn't use the rights given to him/her, then they lose the right to be heard. You will always have the right of free speach, but not the right to be heard.
To Jody
My question: Have you ever been in planet earth?
Your answer: No, I live ON planet earth.
See, when you say NO,.... and then you say I live in planet earth. Well, that makes no sense! May be you should try this answer... Yes, I live ON planet earth.
[...] Wolf Blitzer started with a commentary from one of their medical reporters which started this way: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/09/cnn-reality-check-that-got-mich... And ended this way with an interview when Michael got on. [...]
[Deleted. Blatant bigotry is SOOOO unattractive, dear-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted.Trolling with flamebait. Yeah Progressives making money off of the truth. I'd be pissed if I were a kool-aid drinker too-Sitemonitor]
First anyone can find a poll or study to support just about any issue. I am sick and tired of hearing americans complain about our country. If it is so bad here please feel free to leave. Go live in cuba, mexico iraq wherever just stop your bitching and moaning. There are always going to be things that aren't perfect. It does not exist in the real world
You don't see bus loads of Canada's seniors coming across the border to our country for medical treatment and drugs. Dr. Sanjaya forgot to mention this during his Michael Moore hit piece.
Why are people so braindead? Gupta is not some holy God just because he has a medical degree. Isn't Bill Frist a doctor too? What is wierd is that Gupta made his CNN piece so silly. It was as if he felt every fact that Moore presented had to be challenged. It was as if CNN played a civil rights piece about MLK but had to set a tone of opposition, with interspliced David Duke 'research' and crap about the Bell Curve. The media is so afraid of the violent wingers that they try to report everything as if it is debatable: evolution, global warming, etc. Gupta is a scared little shill.
Douglas Watts @ 22:
This is the part that I remember from before I saw the film. I don't know why I remember it, but when I saw the film, Moore didn't claim that Cuba's per capita spending was $25.00. I think he claimed $225.00.
Does anyone recall this part of the film?
How many people in the U.S. -- who can afford it, that is -- leave this country to go elsewhere for medical treatment? And what the hell does making a comparison of elective surgery have to do with anything?
The man did not support his own facts. He cherry-picked statistics to present a false rebuttal.
By the way, in the past when I've been able to scrape together the dollars to see a doctor, there has always been a waiting time, anywhere from 20 minutes to 3 hours. So he doesn't need to lecture Americans on having to wait.
27
John Doheny
I hear ya there. i would take that system too over the one i have now. which is absolutely NOTHING. why? cause i can't even afford the insurance. i have a private business and actually perchased my own health coverage at $151/month which was the absolute cheapest i could find and suprise it was inadequate considering $30 copay, only 80% of my hospital was covered, and not all the tests were covered, and $1000 deductible (my favorite). That was actually better than the next best company which was $200/month and only gave me 4 dr. visits per year before i had to pay a $500 deductible ontop of my monthly payments.
Health Care in the US is a joke. The private sector definately isn't better on health care. at best you can do is get expensive insurance which is equivalant to purchasing a discount on your visits.
I wanted to point out some "fudging of the facts" in Gupta's piece, it is subtle but goes to undermine his general point that health care in the U.S. is better than Moore lets on. Early on in the report he notes (paraphrasing here):
Yet later on, he chastises Moore for not noting that:
Doesn't this somehow skew the numbers for the previously mentioned 37th place ranking? If patient satisfaction is a key indicator for health care, what would happen if we took that out of the rankings? If we were to hold Gupta to the same standards as Moore, he would certainly be called out on this.
Cuba's per capita cost is $229 vs the US @ $7000 per capita? That's 30 x Cuba's per capita cost, and Cuba is only 2 slots down from us in the rankings? Dr. Sanjaya inadvertently makes Moore's point on that one statistic alone!
wolf did a good job. in that moment. he kept his cool and kept the interview
intact. anyone on faux would have censored him.
lou dobbs calling him huga chavez ... is a little jab with for the right wingers.....which they like to be in cahoots with.
38
Straight Shooter
yeah you are the first to mention how bad wait times are in the US medical system. but you are absolutely right. try getting an appointment for nonemergency you will be lucky to get it for that same week. as you mentioned, even with appointment you have to get their early or you won't have an appointment and you still never see the dr. on time. always 15min+ wait past the time of your appointment. It's even worse for emergency rooms. if you are short of bleeding to death. you have to wait hours in the waiting area. then if you are seen. they take you to another area where you have to wait just as long to actually see a dr. at best you might get to see a nurse before that time.
I lived in two European Countries and Gupta's report is pure bullshit. I never had any significant waits for anything and the satisfaction is very high with the health care system.
And another important fact. The "higher taxes" thing is a red herring. Sure technically your taxes will go up but you won't have the insurance premiums, copays and deductables so you will come out ahead. Screw these lying whores.
Moore should have grabbed Greed-head Gupta's number one Hot Point and run with it: USA spends (Gupta's number) $6,000+ per capita, Cuba just $280. Yet, USA's and Cuba's life expectancy are (Gupta's words) "about the same." When even the desperate lies of a big-time pharma-whore like Guptacorp indict the for-profit sickness industry, it's looking bad for Daddy Warbucks and Bill Frist's family's hospital chain.
My own anecdote: got bill from hospital-run blood tests, says ins. co. won't cover. I called ins co. and invoked "Sicko" information and names like my U.S. Senator and others who'll soon be voting to change the USA's horrible, predatory sickness perpetuation system. At the mention of the film, and my recounting of information contained in the film, the phone rep suddenly became very conciliatory and helpful, offered to "adjust" the billing codes so that the test's cost would be completely covered.
Coincidence? Amazing miracle? All I can say it that it's never happened before. In the past I've had to endure lengthy appeals/threats/doctor involvement before the ins. co. would relent and pay. But that was before the entire theater (in which I saw Sicko) virtually boiled over during the screening of the film, and similar scenes occurred elsewhere around the nation.
The pharma/medcorp bloodsuckers can feel the rumble of the peasants' clogs as we thunder across the castle's drawbridge, pitchforks in hand. They can smell the boiling tar and see the smoke from the rabble's torches. Only one thing will save the for-profit sickness industry in the USA, now.....another 9-11-01. Wall Street needs a (more complete) suspension of the Bill Of Rights, a draft, and a nice, long WW III. It's the only thing that'll save the old regime from the long-overdue consequences of their serial crimes. The chickens, as Malcolm said, have come home to roost.
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Be sure to check out the version at MediaMatters.com. At the end of the video you'll see Jack Catherty looking like a real turd, too.
He says, "Wolf -- after seeing that, I have determined that they don't pay you enough."
This after MM accurately called Blitzer out on being a corporate / GOP whore.
Shame on you, Jack Catherty! Shame on you!
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Jody, lets settle this once and for all!!
We have many rights in this country that others don't, you're right on that. We have more free speech rights than many other countries. However, we don't have many social rights that other countries have. The lack of social rights eliminates many of the rights that economic libertarians claim we have. We theoretically have many rights that economic libertarians carp on about, but they are not "positive" rights in any way, they're the "negative" kind, no one stops you from trying to obtain those rights but, for many, those rights cannot be actually obtained. What I'm saying is clear. We should do our best to change every negative right to a positive right. "Free market" capitalism as practiced, which has no relation to the stuff they teach in economics departments, makes this impossible. It also has many problems that "free market" proponents have no answer for. How does the system take into account ecological costs? It can try to INFLUENCE behavior (like trying to "internalize" externalities) but could never properly account for ecological costs, just as it cannot solve the problem of accounting for absoulute scarcity. It also has a horrific track record on economic development (please do not tell me that the US has developed along free market lines, the idea is ridiculous, the US like every other country has developed with massive involvement from the state) and delivering many social services, like healthcare. So you soothe yourself on your free market generalizations, and that's all they are, and ignore any idea that doesn't fit into your world view. The free market won't, and can't, solve any of these problems but it seems people like you are happy if we go ahead with them anyway. We're all supposed to live with policies that aren't solving any problems because people like you like the idea of a "free market". That's theology, not any rational way of solving these problems. At least, in other countries, the religion of "free markets" isn't bought so easily at face value and people are willing to challenge basic precepts if they don't work.
Jody, I was just kidding, this is an important issue. Forgive me for that.
I just happen to have different views and cannot understand how can you come up with something like that (your earlier post). I guess that making a better world beggins with respect. SORRY
Ramon your a moron, get a life
John, I was only jocking. May be not the right place to do so. Sorry again
Sorry Ramon,
There are many problems in the world and no-simple solutions to them. I just get very irritated when everyone complains but never offers a real solution. I believe america is the best country to live in, just look at the immigration issue. If it was so bad why does everyone want to live in america.
WOW that was like watching Fox Snooze with Sean Hannity right before a discussion about Global Warming and Al Gore... I guess they all HATE the truth. I'll just keep watching Keith Olbermann, Jon Stewart, and Colbert Report and leave it at that. At least I know it's not bullshit. Pitiful closed minded bastards at CNN and everyone who watches them.
Jody, do honestly think that's a good critique? Moore should open up a hospital that accepts everyone and see if he could turn a profit? You do realize that you are assuming in the first place that healthcare should be a business don't you? Universal healthcare wouldn't be run by politicians, it would be run by all of us collectively and the power would be with those delivering the service directly to you, ie you and your doctor.
The logic is beyond simple. A healthcare corporation, like every other corporation, must maximize profits for their investors. So, if there is a procedure that is not profitable, the corporation, doing what's in its best interest, will cut funding for the service or not cover it at all. You can't argue that countless services are not covered as a result of this profit motive, don't pretent you don't know this. If it doesn't, another company won't cover the service, their profits will go up and investors will go elsewhere. There's a downward pressure on healthcare delivery, if you actually watched the movie you could hear Nixon himself say what a great idea this was. The official in the tape said that the HMO's would make profits by delivering less serivice. What's Nixon's response? "Great".
Regarding you pay for doctors nonsense: First off, if a doctor is in the healthcare field for money anyway I don't want him working on me. There has to be something outside of naked self interest to the field of healthcare delivery. I know you subjectivist "free marketers" have problem with the idea but it's true. Secondly, I challenge you to give me proof that doctors in countries with universal healthcare make low salaries. Please, provide the proof to your claim. The reason why doctors need such high salaries here is because of the expenses they accrue during school. If we were to fund the training of many nurses and doctors there'd be less debt and less of a need to make as much in the first place. Instead of making more nukes, as Bush wants to, why not direct the money towards training healthcare workers? We spend more money than the rest of the world combined on the military, over a TRILLION a year including all expenses, but somehow can't fund healthcare services. Not a solid argument in any way.
[Deleted.Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Jody/matt/jody, you are done here-Sitemonitor]
John, NAFTA has caused hundreds of thousands of Mexican farms to go under, mainly as a result of our subsidies to agriculture here. Since NAFTA was signed immigration has increased EIGHT fold over previous years. NAFTA has driven down wages in Mexico and has destroyed their environment. The average benefit annually of NAFTA to Mexico has been about $14 billion a year (also need to take into account the fact that the benefit has been highly concentrated) while the environmental costs have been about $36 billion. So the benefits are far outweighed by the costs. Since Mexico went to neo liberal or free trade policies air pollution has gone up almost 100%, soil erosion by 89%, solid waste 108% and water pollution by 29% (while the benefits are highly concentrated the costs aren't), and it wasn't good in the first place. http://ase.tufts.edu/gdae/Pubs/rp/NAFTAEnviroKGAmerProgSep04.pdf
If you want to do any research it's easy. Go to google, type in NAFTA Mexican farmers. People are coming here for a better life, they did less so in previous years when investors were destroying Mexico less. Funny how Limbaugh and the like never mention NAFTA in regards to immigration. Wonder why. Nice night.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Jody, I, unlike people like yourself, have been against the war from the beginning. I, unlike the coward chicken hawks you probably like, didn't call for the bombing of Iraq while not serving myself (many of these people didn't serve when they had the chance in Vietnam either). I, unlike the people calling for the war, haven't profited off of the destruction of another country. Iraq was much more of an enemy anyway when our government was giving the bio agents to kill their people and Iranians and bringing Iraqi scientists to the US (like they did in 1989 in Oregon) to teach them how to build WMD's. I'm sure you're very brave yourself. You put a bumper sticker on your car, you type on line about US (obviously not YOU) going to war with countless countries and you back healthcare policies that do nothing more than enrich investors. It's brave choice you've made, to be a boot licker to those in power. Have a nice night.
Gupta is a shill. Ever see his "special" about the value of supplements? Pure and unadulterated crap. According to him, there have been
only a handful of studies showing clinical value in taking ANY supplement, EVER. Well, guess what? There are hundreds yearly, in this country and others. He winds up suggesting that we all take a single multivitamin "just in case." This man is no longer a physician. He is a political mouthpiece, but most Americans are too ignorant about medicine to know this. I'm surprised that more of the medical profession haven't spoken up about this quack. Publicly, that is...I'm sure they have plenty to say privately.
Thanks Emily and Edwin for a little reality check from Canada. Single payer can work just fine, and we should try to do it better than any of the other countries that are well along on this civilized path.
We are talking about the health of our fellow citizens, about taking it out of the hands of an industry that has become downright predatory. But apparently some folks out there like having sick, broken, and broke people all around them, in our society.
Michael Moore has been given a pass at being accountable for the facts with all of his projects. He is a distorter of truth for his personal financial gain. I applaud Dr. Gupta's efforts to challenge this blatant left-wing propaganda.
Annie @ 411:
uh, something tells me that you have not watched gupta's "challenge" much like he hasn't seen Sicko.
I am even more proud of Michael Moore now having seen that heinous display by CNN in an attempt to discredit him. This was another "Oscar speech" moment for Moore. AND I can predict how his opponents will use it against him, when really this is perfectly justified righteous indignation. He was being lied about and then they turn to him and say "so Mike, why are you such a damn dirty liar?" I'd be angry too and good for him for firing back with both barrels at the entire media establishment for not only supporting our broken health care system, but also for their ineptness in the lead up to and execution of the catastrophic Iraq war. Way to go, Michael Moore! You've been served, CNN!
I love the part about it's not free! They have to pay Higher Taxes. The middle class has had it's taxes raised and what have they got? Answer NOTHING! This piece the corporate media put together could have been produced by a major Health Provider.The solution= Repeal the Tax cuts for the Rich and put it into fixing the Broken Healthcare system in this Country. Also remove the Insurance Company's and move to a single payer plan.
John Doheny @ 27:
John Doheny @ 27:
RB @ 48:
You are right. My brother has been Canadian for decades and he and his wife who have been seriously ill get great treatment. Right now, unfortunately, my brother has no kidneys. If he were here he probably would have died.
As for us, we are very lucky to have a great female doctor and the best of care we can get. Not all people are that lucky.
Broken, beaten, expensive, and greed- that's our system.
Not only do the "good die young", so do the poor!
I can't believe you "RB" what are you trying to say....that people have decided not to get health care ....because they are lazy or what????....they can afford it but don't get it.....are you a bit nuts??.....if they could afford it MOST would get it....especially after you get hit a few times with the ER and Doc bills....my son is self employed....he can't afford it!!....and even if he gets it it doesn't cover much....and I beg to disagree with your last sentence....uninsured CAN mean without access to care.....not until you are close to death....I've seen it happen many times...they come to the ER for care.....get minimal because they have no insurance and come back later deathly ill....don't address issues you seem to know nothing about....
Michael Moore has AGAIN "hit the nail on the head"....no hypocrisy here....just honest facts....Americans need to act on the facts
Annie, nice comment on the subject at hand. When discussing healthcare policy in Washington that's what the right wing should do, instead of trying to actually put together a logical argument. Everytime a fact is brought up, the right should just respond with, "more left-wing propaganda". Done. Case closed. Brilliant.
Um, how long has it been since Blitzer or Gupta have needed care from a hospital emergency room (or even a General Practitioner)? My girlfriend and I just spent 4 hours waiting for a tetanus shot - in an empty waiting room - and got the privilege of paying $90 for the "service."
You want to talk about hypocrisy? Let's not forget that Michael Moore is the president of an organization called The Center For Alternative Media & Culture. In a 2000 tax return (visible on the foundation's website) it lists a number of stocks in which they were heavily invested. Among them: Pharmaceutical giants Eli Lilly, and defense contractors Honeywell and Halliburton -the target of two of his prior op-ed films. I guess as long as they're making him money, it doesn't matter whether or not the message of his films and the focus of the business he invests in are at odds. Check out Manufacturing Dissent. It's filled with Moore's manipulation of the "facts." I like his films as pure entertainment, but I take them with a grain of salt. That's why I find it so amusing when he goes on a tirade to defend them. At least he's stopped calling his films documentaries, which in the strictest sense of the word they are not.
Joe, like I said above, saying YOU have good healthcare is not an argument about the system itself, it just says you Joe have nice healthcare. I could care less about one person if for every person that receives good healthcare there's two that don't, or one that goes bankrupt, or how many billions go to executives for doing nothing other than denying care to the needy. I'm sick and tired of this subjectivist reasoning you people always use, especially when you'd never accept it for yourself if someone was more powerful than you and your family and was bending you to their will. It only benefits you when you are in the most powerful position, which makes you nothing more than a bully, regardless as to whatever generalization you can offer as a response.
I also DO care about how much an executive makes. The economist John Ruskin said it best, "the art of making yourself rich, in the ordinary mercantile economist's sense, is therefore equally and necessarily the art of keeping your neighbour poor". If an executive becomes richer (especially if they become richer by building weapons, destroying the environment or denying care to the needy), especially beyond what they add to society relative to the person actually producing the good or service, I am equally relatively poorer. Why you would be happy by being relatively poorer, and receive nothing more even than some useless product or service, is beyond me, but I'm sure it makes sense somehow...
Sorry, but Moore's declaration that NHS can do no wrong is completely off the mark. Yes, the US Healthcare system is a total mess, but UHC is a lousy solution. I personally know Canadians who regularly cross the border into the US to get medical care because the NHS has totally failed them.
We'd be better off dismantling the AMA monopoly and allowing the free-market health care system that existed before 1847. The malpractice, fraud and negligence laws existed before the AMA and protected the People from Quacks. The creation of the AMA created a self-serving monopoly and did absolutely nothing to serve the needs of the People.
We need healthcare freedom, not a stronger monopoly that does little more than manage symptoms with poisonous drugs.
Salmineo @ 3:
gupta is now a member of the lance armstrong foundation's board of directors. whatever! he's a starfu@*er too.
[Deleted. Trolling with flamebait-Sitemonitor]
I haven't seen Sicko yet but I'm living it! This country's healthcare system is sick -- and the blame should fall squarely on our government for allowing the abuses of greedy corporations to continue with a system driven by reaping unfair profits not delivering healthcare to the masses.
Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and some hospitals are making ridiculously unfair profits on the backs of doctors and other healthcare providers, who end up getting blamed for how expensive healthcare is. Blue Cross / Blue Shield is the most powerful lobbying entity bar none and if you understand that fact you will understand why the way our healthcare system works has not changed. Thank you Michael Moore for accellerating the conversations that have a chance to get people energized enough to demand change. Universal healthcare is not a bad word but as long as it can be manipulated in ways that cause "fear" the concept will continue to be rejected. Driving and controlling healthcare is better and easier than printing money for insurance companies. Who has the will and the fortitude to bring them under control?
What most people do not realize is how much money we waste on billing costs, HMO's middle & upper management, CEO's, and other incentives and bonuses paid to the HMOs for denying health care that people have paid for year after year. If we streamlined the billing system and didn't pay all of these nonessential, non-medical personnel, then we would have plenty of money to pay nurses and physician assistants more money. Probably doctors wouldn't have to take much of a pay cut. Of course, if you are one of those greedy bastard doctors that want to make several million a year then get over yourself. When my father was in the hospital, it was the NURSES that repeatedly monitored his care and saved his life many times. It was a NURSE that spotted a conflict in medication for my father. God bless all nurses for the hard work and the abuse they have to endure from SOME arrogant doctors. I am so fortunate to have NEVER needed any serious health care. The last time I was in a hospital was to be born 46 years ago, so I have been paying year after year and not needed it. Now I know that when I do need health care as I get older, I will be denied rightfully paid for procedures and basically tortured by a system that doesn't give a damn. I have seen how members of my family have been systematically denied care based upon denials. My younger sister had ovarian cysts, so her doctor gave her a blood test to see if she had cancer. The test came back showing 98% likelihood of cancer. As a caring doctor, he had a brilliant onocologist help with her surgery. When they operated they discover no cancer. Thank God! Then the bills hit. Her HMO denied her payment on the blood test and onocologist because she did not have cancer. Five years later, she is STILL paying for the surgery. Oh, yeah, when she got the bill for the anaestesia, her HMO paid only 70%. Like anaesthesia a luxury item for major surgery.
Randall Dalton, MD @ 427:
Thank you for you comments. I hope more doctors will speak up.
Raise taxes? How 'bout shrinking the pentagon and making it 50 times harder for idiot presidents to start ill conceived wars... prolly save enough there to afford health care for the entire world twice over....
raker @ 20:
CNN, the most trusted name in news.... right.
Seriously, if Gupta can't get his details straight, and CNN wants to maintain their reputation, it seems to me like they need to find a replacement for him.
Moore throws around a figure of "50 million uninsured Americans." It's more accurate to report that the number of Americans who are uninsured cannot be verified. A significant percentage, however, can afford insurance but choose not to buy it. In addition, as many as one-third of the uninsured are eligible for Medicaid or other free government programs but fail to apply for them. And, ultimately, "uninsured" does not mean without access to care.
To hear Michael Moore claim something is a hit piece is the height of hypocrisy!
He needs to start being called "Weasel Blitzer", because that mincing little corporate-apologist sure at no "Wolf."
Biggus Diggus @ 5:
LOL!!! You got that right!
Scared Corporate America is now stuffing CNN with lies ,,are they taking FOX News lessons? Pretty sick. CNN has been going downhill for awhile. Wolf has no credibiltiy now in my book any longer. Just saw the movie tonight,, you bet corporate health care CEO goons are scared of this movie. Reality bites.
MM == Rush of the Left: Fat bloviating f**khole. Do you guys support everything MM says? I'd like some "free" pizza please. How about a "free" BJ?
Site Monitor: How about you clean it up? No flamebaiting on my watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQxgtsTqryI
Michael Moore rules (sometimes).
hadenuf @ 21:
Yeah, I wonder how much healthcare we'd have for the billions of dollars spent in Iraq.
We are seeing it happen again right before our eyes. If you remember the right wing through the media did a very similar thing to Fahrenheit 911. For a while they would make claims of falsehoods in the film but they were shot down with facts. The right wing persisted with more and more supposed "lies" even when the claims were debunked. Then they stopped claiming falsehoods and mistakes and just started claiming that the movie was totally debunked. Still to this day I have heard people on the right refer to Fahrenheit 911 as having been debunked. There is no basis for that claim but they will claim it over and over and over until people just stop bothering to correct them. I can see it starting all over again with Sicko. The media will be no help, as a matter of fact they will be just the opposite. The right wing will be persistent and keep telling the lies over and over. They hope at some point people will just give up correcting them, then in their weird twisted world they win.
Douglas Watts @ 22:
I was in the theater the day after "Sicko" opened, marveling at what the Cubans could accomplish on two hundred something bucks per person. Dr. Gupta flat out misheard. The movie has it right.
I love how CNN puts out these reality checks on people who challenge the system. Yet Suzanne Malveaux constantly comes on regurgitating administration propaganda without fact checking it. For instance, she constantly tells the big lie that every insurgent, according to the new propaganda line of the Bush administration, are now Al Queda. Anderson Cooper does his keeping them honest, and now Dr. Gupta does his fact checking spill, where is the fact checking on the lies of the Bush administration. Where is the fact checking for right wing talk radio, and where is the fact checking for the Neo Cons who are at this very moment trying to get us into a war with Iran. Fact checking indeed, more like doing the healthcare industry and pharmaceutical industry's bidding to defeat single payor healthcare in America.
I am 49 years old and on Medicaid due to my cancer and other side effects from it. When I was diagnosed in October I couldn’t work anymore. Coverage for my husband and I was about $260/mo. from my paychecks. To COBRA my healthcare bennies would have been near $800/mo. We couldn’t afford that even though he continued to work. His bennies would have cost about $500/mo. for us–not very good. We ended up qualifying for Medicaid, my husband is 62 and started to collect SS in Jan. and which was our only source of income until SS approved my disability and started to get monthly checks in May. In Jan. he stopped working to take care of me and we got help from relatives. Thankfully we have it because either plan would have bankrupted us, our plans were 80/20, so the medical bills would have piled up. On Medicaid I have always been able to see a doctor and have pretty decent health care. My six sessions of chemo were $15,000 a piece. Now I need more chemo and so this goes on. He went back to work so we could afford food and other essentials the SS income isn’t enough to cover our expenses which we have trimmed down immensely.
I am so grateful for Medicaid but I know there are other people who are suffering the financial strains brought on by their illnesses. BRAVO to Michael Moore for making this movie and let’s hold our elected officials accountable for the health care of this country in the future.
RayC @ 55:
Ray C,
check this out.
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20040702.html
RB @ 48:
I don't suppose you would care to back up your claims with a link or anything?
Well, as a doctor Gupta should know something about statistics. There are always caveats like "if you include or exclude this and that" and always a certain variability in governent and non-government numbers. To automatically assert that Moore "fudged the facts" (aka lying) without a more in depth coverage of specific claims versus the actual studies involved is, at best, an effort to slander.
Now if they wanted to actually sit down with Moore and discuss hard numbers and the various studies that generate them, that would constitute journalism. Why would I trust Gupta's 15 second unsourced assessment more than Moore's? Because he provided medical services in Iraq? I dont get it. Can my dog give the third opinion?
The whole prep bit was CNN saying, Moore said this, we say this, but you dont have the attention span to listen to the actual facts so just trust us.
Dick4 @ 52:
Thank you for the perspective of a 12-year old.
Snowball @ 2:
RB @ 29:
Dick4 @ 52:
Thanks for showing up guys. We've been waiting for you.
;)
Johnny @ 49:
Jackal Blitzer
14 James Says: Oh, that CNN is quick to see whether “controversial” Michael Moore’s facts check out. They did a “reality check” on his new movie, and almost everyone has something to say.
But when it comes to the “facts” that our government pushes every day, CNN doesn’t want to look too deeply. What a surprise.
Hear hear...
How about fact checking 9/11 while we are at it?
define: flamebaiting
Site Monitor: Hard for you to understand? You're welcome to post on the topic--as long as you do it civilly. Insults and name calling will only incite a flame war and detract from the discussion. Keep your ad hominems to your own sites. And since I'm the only one who can see your email address, I suggest you clean that up as well, or I'll take that as a challenge to the site and ban you. Have I answered your question?
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RB @ 29:
To hear Michael Moore call something a hit piece is the height of hypocrisy!
I really want to know, do you get paid by some right wing think tank for going around to blogs and spreading your total horse shit??? I went to that link and its exactly what I said it was, horse shit claims that have no basis in the real world only in the right wing fantasy world.
I heard some doctor being interviewed and he said big pharma gave him his black bag after he graduated. All these liars like Gupta are call girls for their big pharma madam's
1st by a long way in terms of wealth as a nation, 37th in terms of health care.
1st in military might by a long way, 37th in terms of health care.
PS. Canadian elective surgery waits may be longer than the U.S. elective surgery waits, but ALL Canadians can get on the waiting list, whereas only Americans with appropriate levels of private health care can get on U.S. elective surgery wait lists.
=my2c
BC
RayC @ 68:
I would hope that he/she/it is not paid too much, if at all, considering that the source is from a closed-down site with an opinion piece from 2004. I would like to think that no one would actually pay for that.
Why Gupta had to throw out that last dig at Moore during his piece is beyond me, ('fudging the facts'). I can only think that it's a bit like a teenagers' rant when they want to bring on a fight by having the last word. Poor Wolf didn't quite know where to go- should of apologized for starters than gotten back to Sicko. The main stream media is going to attempt to kill any attempt at bringing on a change in health care in this country. As for Gupta, he really needs to step back-admit there's a problem, and work for a change-a BIG CHANGE- in health care. Heck, during the debate- Gupta agreed with 90% of Moore's movie!
I can tell you why Because Mike uses a term "As far as I can tell by my facts its true"
I guess I could disagree with anything if I said that all the time.
baby jesus @ 35:
Michael Moore is making money. Has he announced a plan to reform our health care system. I am honestly asking. Health care reform will not take place until we educate our children and give them a true desire to make our country a better place, give them a since of pride in the nation they live in and stop looking for an escape goat. Look at the generation that is in the 16-22 range. Some are great kids, but we have let them pollute their minds with trash. Most of them know nothing about how the health care system works. This generation has a since of entitlement. They had to learn that somewhere. I hate to be the one to bust someones bubble, but we were not promised anything that we didn't ask for. So, why don't we (as a country) start asking for solutions that are possible with the means we have in front of us. This was not created in a day, week or year and will not be fixed like that. Sacrifices will have to be made, compromises will have to made and egos will have to be put to the side.
Wicked legs, you remind me of the guy in Good Will Hunting. You can recite all the jargon you want and waste money and time trying to blame someone the fact remains our country is a mess. No amount of blame that we place on anyone party or person will change that.
the real issue, the one underlying all of this, is the fact that, unfortunately, our capitalist system values money before people. period.
Baby Jesus asks "why won't all humans help each other to be healthy" actually there is a company doing just that, Its called http://www.MedFund-USA which is a membership only organization of Americans helping Americans. It is not an insurance company.
MedFund-USA members receive 100% financial assistance from other MedFund-USA members to pay for their medical, Legal, Dental, Eye Care, you name it. No Co-Pay's, No deductibles, No 80/20 plans to pay.
There are some who say that no profits should be made from health care coverage. In the general scheme of things I agree with them, However, with this MedFund-USA company, there is one major exception to what they say, MedFund is a profit making business, but it shares those profits IN CASH with its members.
In addition to sharing the profits among its members, it also rewards its members by refunding a significant portion of their membership fees IN CASH if they do not make any significant demands of the system, they can still get their refund even if they have their general doctors visits throughout the year without it disqualifying them for their refund.
I hope Michael Moore is aware of this company who IS QUIETLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE BACKGROUND. This company is well funded by its corporate and individual memberships. As far as I am concerned, we need more Michael Moores and more companies like this MedFund-USA company to give what the American people want and need. I will make a prediction, that very shortly, the medical insurance companies will have a very powerful competitor on their hands, the competitor will be the American people themselves who made those guy's rich in the first place, In my humble opinion, what the American people giveth, they can also take away.
I think the only way to get of CNN and the other propaganda channels is to stop paying them. Stop watching them. Don't subscribe to the cable services that deliver them, if you don't have any option tell them to block the specific channel. Encode it.
CNN gets money from you watching them so remove the option. Ask for or select news channels that ARE reliable and non-biased, BBC world news and not much better, but a little from what i can tell, but there got to be an option even if they are not flashy and fancy, spend the money you save on not subscribing to the propaganda on the media outlest that ARE trust worthy and unbiased.
The UN should have a global, unbiased and neutral news channel with all checks and balances in place, broadcast globally for free, accessible for anyone... imagine how much money would be saved, how many lives would be spared, if the corporate and political filter was not there.
Free News Now!
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