Bill Moyers' Roundtable On Impeachment Of Bush & Cheney
By Logan Murphy Friday Jul 13, 2007 8:31am
Many of the videos we post here at C&L are of politicians and pundits slugging it out, yelling over each other and trying to score a knock out punch. While the red meat gets a lot of attention, sometimes a calm and rational discussion of important and contentious issues is just what the doctor ordered.
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In this clip PBS' Bill Moyers sits down with The Nation's John Nichols and conservative constitutional attorney Bruce Fein from the American Freedom Agenda to discuss the crimes and abuse of power by George Bush and Dick Cheney and the need to impeach them both. While Nichols and Fein come from different ends of the political spectrum, they are in total agreement on this issue. Congress must put impeachment on the table because if they do nothing to stop Bush and Cheney now, we will see future presidents follow in their footsteps which would be a disaster for our country. This is definitely worth a look...
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Saturday morning frist!
I can give a good debate about why Bush should be in jal, not just impeached.
and if he is impeached & hopefully removed, it will make the transition to the next admin more likely & less contentious.
Bill Moyers Journal is an excellent show. This is reminiscent of TV in seventies, where intelligent people came together and discussed current events with a composed and inquisitive host. I've been watching Moyers every week now and it is refreshing to get away from the mainstream media.
Write your Senator, write your Congressperson and beg them to impeach! This is about more than just Bush and Cheney. This is about every future president who will abuse the Constitution, Executive Privilege, etc. This is about our republic.
I saw this last night on PBS--it was excellent. Surprisingly, Bruce Fein was eloquent in his argument to impeach the criminals.
Highly recommended for all citizens, but more so for our lame Dem Reps and Senators, who Fein and Nichols correctly blast as weak and not understanding the constitution.
Well we all know getting a blowjob and lying about it is an impeachable offense so I guess we don't have to worry about future presidents making that mistake again. But as far as stealing elections, lying a nation into war, giving companies connect to the Vice President no bid government contracts, sending the Louisiana national guard off to Iraq while Americans are drowning in New Orleans, outing CIA agents working to keep Americans safe from (real) WMDs, illegal wiretapping, constitution shredding, torture, wreaking environmental havoc, gross negligence, gross incompetence, deficit spending, etc, etc, etc....all acceptable non-impeachable offenses.
Ozymandias @ 5:
Beg? Fuck that. Demand. I think you're forgetting that elected officials are supposed to work for their constituents.
I agree that something needs to be done and that Congress must find the spine to move forward with impeachment proceedings.
There is plenty of evidence to start the ball rolling. These people need to understand that laws and the Constitution trump their personal ideologies.
[Deleted. You've got to be kidding. Don't be such a jerk-Sitemonitor]
Please Join the Over 150,000 who have already signed this Petition to Impeach Bush and Cheney.
http://archive.democrats.com/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=impeach
Pelosi, are you watching this?
This PBS discussion will be repeated on PBS on Sunday, July 22. It was the most interesting breakdown of all the NON political reasons to begin impeachment hearings . It was riveting. Bush and Cheney, are pushing this country into a Monarchy. How much do we want to preserve the Republic and the balance of power? Now is the time to restore that balance. A bi-partisan effort should occur to get the attention of Bush and Cheney. They need to recant their behavior.
#12. If she is she is blinking hysterically or staring like a deer caught in the headlights.
This was an absolutely fascinating discussion, and I say that as someone who was skeptical about the usefulness of impeachment at this stage of the game. The program goes a long way in explaining what impeachment is actually all about, its intended purpose as conceived by the Founders, and why it is a necessary course of action in this case. It prompted me to write to Speaker Pelosi and my Congressional Representative. This is worth your time to watch. Bruce Fein, the conservative at the table, is unrelenting and passionate in his argument.
Who are these dweebs?!?!
[One of them wrote the articles of impeachment against your favorite whipping boy-do you have anything to add to the conversation? I thought not. Move along. You really are out of your depth here-Sitemonitor]
Stefan @ 10:
I say lets make the contest between Gravel and Kucinich. How better to discredit the talking heads shilling for the corporate good shepherds?
[Quote edited-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
I guess the fact that they LIED to America in order to start a War for Profits is OK with you.
I guess the fact that OBL still runs free and has more recruits now than ever before is OK with you.
I guess the Administration acting in secrecy even about releasing documents about covering up the Tillman affair is Ok With you.
I guess you must be one of those 28%rs, who are completely out of touch with real facts.
Go back to FOx and watch some more propaganda.
[...] See video from CrooksandLiars.com [...]
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
This was so incredibly refreshing and heartening--intelligent people passionately discussing an important issue without rancor, sarcasm, ad hominen attacks, viciousness, or screaming. And a host who doesn't feel impelled to talk down to or over the guests, but asks thought-provoking questions and then listens to the replies.
On the other hand, it was extremely painful to realize how rare and unusual this is, and that only a small number of people have seen it.
I wish there were a way to get a copy to each legislator and force hir to listen to this dialogue and actually pay attention. For that matter, it would be nice if each of the media could do the same with an eye to emulating the style if not the content.
And, as my mother would have said, maybe the moon is made of bleu cheese....
we as a nation are in dire circumstances right now!!! and nobody in congress seems to be doing very much to fix it.
But it was a great point and something I've been saying for 25+ years now that President Ford robbed America of justice when he pardoned Nixon, our leagle system is set up so that we actually need to go through the proper leagle process so it doesn't happen again or alteast we will have a decision on record that sets the presedent and we were truely robbed of that when Nixon was pardoned and also we were robbed of it when Bush41 pardoned all of the Reagan criminals and the stupid republican arguement is that everyone pradons criminals when they leave office and they always want to talk about Clinton's pardons but the question nobody asks is for ANYONE to name a single member of Bill Clinton's administration who was going to jail for a treasonous offence or for selling weapons to the enemy and was pardoned. I believe Clinton would have done the right thing if he had the chance and made sure that Bush41 and the Reagan criminals faced our courts for their crimes, and it probably would have cost him everything to do it...but that's just my own personal fantasy...but you could never have even just that fantasy with Republican leadership...becuase they don't believe in the equal rule of law and they do not believe in American standards, they believe only in the Dollar and they don't care about ANYTHING else...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Republicans are the greatest enemy America has ever faced and they have already done more damage to our great country then any enemy we have ever faced. Even Al Queida couldn't have hoped to cause the damage to America that the repugs have caused...and if your a republican and your reading this...eat shit...I really mean it at this point...get your head out of your ass and learn the truth about what is going on in your own country. You owe it to you children!
George Bush has never had to deal with consequences in his life. His insulated journey through life only works for him when he is working with a rigged game. Lacking this, his short comings become rather evident. It is time for him to have consequences for his actions.
One problem with the overall argument put forward here is that Bush and Cheney would not come clean with America once impeachment proceedings started. Their authoritarian conservative world-view does not recognize Constitutional limits to their power. They might claim to have seen the light, but nothing would change. They have to be removed from office by a conviction from the Senate, or lacking that all their funding cut off until their terms expire.
Pelosi is in a particularly tough situation with this since she would become president if Bush and Cheney were convicted by the Senate. She cannot lead the charge to put herself in the presidency.
Georgette Orwell @ 21:
and yes, Democrats have been equally insulated from consequences as well.
Flash @ 26:
to our peril.
This was an excellent program, and it was nice to see that there is support on both sides of the political spectrum for this move. Impeachment hearings should have begun several years ago, in my opinion. 3/4 of the country is unhappy with the direction we're heading, and have rejected the imperial arguments we're hearing advanced by these clowns. The time has long since come for Congress to heed the will of the American people.
I stumbled on this program. It was excellent. Some others have mentioned how surprised they were to hear Bruce Fein arguing in favor of impeachment. I was too. I've always respected his work but always considered him very conservative. His comments last night reinforced my respect for him.
The quote of the night? "Impeachment does not cause a constitutional crisis. Impeachment SOLVES a constitutional crisis."
We have spineless narcissists in Congress now. I don't think a single person there has the courage and intellect to actually consider saving our country.
Saw the show last night. I love Bill Moyers. Timmeh and Tweety take note, this is what a real journo looks like.
I hope Nancy Pelosi was watching this last night. If they don't get this on the table this year I'm going to contribute to Cindy Sheehans campaign against her.
If you CARE About America, Go to this sight and sign this Petition to Impeach Bush and Cheney.
Sorry I missed Bill Moyers last night. This was by far the most intelligent discussion regarding impeachment that I have heard. Usually people are all fired up demanding impeachment. Emotions were left out of this discussion and reason prevailed.
AJ Fan,
I hadn't seen that clip, and find it very interesting. Much as I thought this campaign started too early, it seems the only reason the "real" candidates (of both parties) have tolerated the "marginal" ones, expecting to get rid of them by attrition when people start paying attention. Bill Richardson's comment was spot on, and the "no-chancers"--again from each party--have had the most substantial, honest, realistic comments in each of these sessions.
I'll be contacting both the Clinton and Edwards campaigns to express my displeasure at their attempt to narrow the field.
(Why the problem with Obama having notes? Perhaps if others, especially Mr. Bush, were a bit more organized in his speeches we'd get more from them.)
This was a powerful assertion of what should happen in a democracy with a democratic constitution. Bruce Fein and John Nichols inspired many, including me, to write to Nancy Pelosi about her responsibilities under the Constitution.
This was a great segment. If you missed it last night (which I did), you can watch the whole thing on line. I believe impeachment is imperative, especially after watching this. I also think we need to strike now while the iron is hot. We're facing a true Contitutional crisis, which I would argue is even more serious than the Iraq War because it threatens our system of government, which also affects the way we handle foreign policy and warfare. We can't effectively fight international terrorism as long as we have a dictatorial president. It's clear now, especially after the Libby commutation and DOJ scandal, that Bush and Cheney will remain forever defiant. Impeachment is the only option. Nearly half the country are on board with this. Pelosi needs to hear from us, as do our own representatives. Bombard local papers with letters-to-the editor, whatever it takes. WaPo and the NYT need to come around on this and start challenging this president on his numerous constitutional violations. They should also directly call for impeachment. Let's roll!!!
Sorry, I forgot to post the Impeachment sight to sign with the over 165,000 other Americans who have already signed to Impeach.
Her it is:
http://archive.democrats.com/e.....gn=impeach
This is the most sane and compelling case for impeachment seen on this blog to date. The problem is that the dems and repubs are the same. The current dems play the game that they are offended by GWB's fiasco in Iraq, thumbing his noise at subpoena's, etc., however, when the cameras are off the dems, along with the repubs, roll around in the slop of cash and power this war brings DC. Congress will not impeach as they will not take any real steps that will kill the goose that keeps producing golden eggs that only they enjoy.
Also, I think impeachment would go a long way in healing the country and restoring confidence. It would help put us back on track. I don't think we can afford to wait it out until the next election. If we do, we're just playing politics rather than doing the right thing.
What is so hard to understand about 'OUR SYSTEM IS BROKEN' and really has been for quite some time. The experiment called America created in the laboratory of Professor Franklin has run it's course and the results are not good. Scrap it in favor of a totalitarian military dictatorship. This should be an easy conversion from a republic as GWB has us well over half-way there and he is the perfect man to hold the position as our first Chancellor.
I look good in brown.
Another site to consider clicking on is:
www.impeachbush.org
and either participate or donate.
KONSERVO @ 16:
Constitutional scholars and American citizens. They don't need any other qualifications, asshole.
Executive overreach. Wiping their sorry asses with the constitution.
I remember a LIBERAL college professor of mine making a side-comment (in a history class) about how conservatives always thought they were just "great people." I also remember seeing conservative speakers advertised on this same college campus as "one heck of a great guy." One of those appellations that have zero meaning or qualification. You, KONSERVO, don't know anything about the true character of Bush or Cheney. You see only a fabricated image projected by a P.R. operation, aided and abetted by a compliant media.
Say it to my face, asshole. Say it to my face.
[While Konservo has been shown the door, and I'm wiping out his comments, I just have to let them stand here-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
Boring... Can't you trolls come up with some new words and new ideas and new phrases? Damn, it's nothing but re-runs from the Cheney/Bush cartel supporters. You lack imagination.
A fantastic interview.
Listen up, Dems!!! Helloooooo....
The standard has been set, and it will continue until there is a democratic president elected. At that point, the repugs will impeach for a parking ticket.
The difference is that Democrats see impeachment as a horrible, last ditch effort to save the union. The repugs see it as another political tool to accomplish their agenda.
[...] gay marriage will eventually lead to people marrying livestock and rodents, can not see how Bush and Cheney’s abuses of power creates a slippery slope that could lead to a military [...]
You support Bush and Dick Head Cheney then join the Army!! Assholes
For years, I have tried argued this same point: Impeachment is not about Bush or Cheney, but about upholding our Constitution. If impeachment does not take place, you are allowing the precedent of a dictatorial executive to stand and be exercised again. Unfortunately, Fox, CNN, et. al, will never let this happen. They will shrill about how it's a Democratic power grab or coup. And our country will live with the legacy and re-emergence of the unitary executive for a generation to come.
Taking impeachment off the table is like taking potential jail-time for criminals off the table. It encourages bad behavior for criminal minds (such as BushCo).
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
man can I have some of what you are smokin ?
tbhull @ 37:
Compelling and right on. My reasons for impeachment are the same as our founding fathers.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
That was the most insightful interview I have seen.
(my new bumper sticker)
Impeach Bush/Cheney! Impeachment is the cure, NOT the disease!
Bill Moyers Journal is by far the best news and information show anywhere, and last night was the best of the best. A few months ago the post-impeachment words "President Nancy Pelosi" would have been music to our ears, but her non-binding weak-tea performance as Speaker so far is not encouraging. Impeach now.
If you want more calm, respectfuland in depth discussion of issues you can have it every day on The Diane Rehm show on NPR. She is outstanding!
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
This would be the talking point and typical response. The mere fact that the administration has used its powers to interfere with legal investigations which could lead to a criminal or impeachable offense, it, in itself, and impeachable offense. Furthermore, to quote President Ford:
Did anyone NOTICE that Bill Moyers actually sat back and LISTENED to them speak their points?
What a concept...dialog. No interrupting...no screaming....NO Ego to FEED!
This is what I like to watch...
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
You want to talk about wasting time and money....do a little historical study as to
Ken Starr and the time and money he spent chasing ghosts in trying to persecute
Bill Clinton.
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
Talking to Konservo is like talking philosphy with a two year old. They are best ignored. Let the two year olds talk to each other in their Republican beer halls.
When civilized people discuss Bush's crimes in a civilized manner Impeachment is the only conclusion you can arrive at... Nancy Pelosi has NO AUTHORITY to take impeachment off the table, She should be censured and made to resign during the impeachment process.
I agree that pardoning Nixon hurt rather than helped our country and I also agree that for the good of our country these two should also be impeached.
Buh, Cheney,et al are rewriting our constitution by executive decree. If we don't impeach we are giving our tacit approval to the new powers they are exerting.
If I understood John Nichols and Bruce Fein correctly, Bush and Cheney can be Impeached and when it is all over, go home to their little mansions to sulk. Where is the punishment for all the evil they have done?
Doggiebobo @ 40:
By the way, I note the number of persons signing this particular petition is
rapidly approaching ONE MILLION.
Personally, I am looking forward to "more information" from this website as to
exactly where other Impeachments rallies will be held on Sept. 15th.
Pelosi is in a particularly tough situation with this since she would become president if Bush and Cheney were convicted by the Senate. She cannot lead the charge to put herself in the presidency.
Sure she can. There is nothing wrong with doing your constitutional duty, even if it would place her in the position of president. I am really unsure about the ramifications of that...but I suppose she would simply serve out her term and cede next year during the election.
I don't know how to go about doing it...will someone put this on You Tube.
I will forward it to many but just can't do the You Tube thing. I think it is important enough to get the world on this discussion.
Lived though Watergate..they are absolutely right. Remember being left with empty feelings when Nixon was pardoned.
kevin @ 60:
The purpose of impeachment is to remove a high official from office. The Constitution is clear that this does not prevent further prosecutions, but the act of impeachment is simply one of removal.
I will be sending a copy of this to Pelosi and others today. Join me.
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
[...] Clark Link to Article george w bush Bill Moyers’ Roundtable On Impeachment Of Bush & Cheney » [...]
Although Pelosi is tip-toeing through a minefield knowing all the while such a move would blow up in our faces at this point, unless she's got the majority needed which is not there.
We saw for ourselves financing the vp cheney office went through because of that asshole Ben Nelson. That is the reality she's facing.
Nonetheless, it sure does appear to me Pelosi will indeed be the one to fall on the bomb.
I think in about a year's time she might be the sacrificial lamb in this hubris.
What a catch 22 this is knowing this administration MUST be declared criminals before the regime ends, otherwise we'll have no recourse in the future.
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
Not to feed the troll, but YOU said it all..."All I know is that I know nothing"; which is
very evident since you consider Cheney/Bush as "Great Americans".
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
[I'm awake now and you are done on the board. Byeee-Sitemonitor]
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/transcript4.html
Link to transcript of Bill Moyers Journal for July 13, 2007. I'm sending the transcript to my Congress Critters.
BEST one hour of television I've ever watched in ten or more years!!!
While the transcript is good for exact wording of quotes, it's MUST SEE TV for the sheer delight of seeing a genuinely intellectual discussion on the topic of impeachment. No screaming, shouting cross-talk, just marvelous, intelligent discussion!
Check your local listings. The show did two re-runs in the middle of the night last night, and will air again tomorrow afternoon in my local market, but do yourselves a favor and watch the ENTIRE hour!
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
Umm... maybe because CNN has been playing that same clip every fifteen minutes for the last 2 days? Why don't you send CNN the shot of the empty podiums and ask them why they don't bother to report that only 1 republican candidate showed up for the NAACP debate at all? I haven't seen that on CNN or on any MSM. Not once. No, CNN, like you, would rather flog mercilessly some inconsequential story about what Clinton and Edwards said.
And you buy it. Do your homework.
[Quote edited-Sitemonitor]
[...] http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/14/bill-moyers-roundtable-on-impea... [...]
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
Too late, w has started another cold war.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Russia-Arms-Control-Treaty.html...
Geez.
Is everyone afraid of our dicktatershit?
Oh my! My spelling. Oh well, you get my point! ;)
Nothing going to happened to the 2 stoogies,until AIPAC finds a replacement or better yet we get off our asses and storm the zionist news media and burn the presses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaB1psXTjS4
Note; The video has some time lag loading--beats me why ? Maybe Monkey business CIA !
This was a rational discussion about impeachment? The guy on the right said that if the president were to admit that he had done wrong impeachment proceedings could then stop because this isn't about soiling the name of the president and vice-president. (???)
Beware people.
These guys, Bill Moyers included, are charlatans. They are taking a legitimate issue and watering it down to a point where it will be meaningless. There are either laws or there aren't laws. The laws or just or they aren't. If the laws governing executive behavior exist and they are just, then there should be consequences.
The guys in this video are providing another layer of bamboozling by peddling, giving credibility to the notion that, even if all of the charges are true, impeachment somehow is about soiling the name of the president. How is this different from what you'll hear from the Bush loyalist on FreeRepublic?
It isn't.
[Deleted. Konservo has been shown the door, as have his comments-Sitemonitor]
Alright Kon go toy around and play your role reversal games somewhere else. Your wasting valuable bandwidth. Which costs us time and money.
Nobody has the guts to impeach this totally corrupt and criminal administration, but discovering Dumbya got a blowjob from any number of male prostitutes or Carl Rove in the White House might do it.
Impeachment would be great, but Congress can't even cut off funds to the OVP.
4fuxache America,
Why not get up off your great fat asses and do something? At the very least, maybe consider asking perhaps the French and Germans to send Peace Keeping forces to re-establish Democracy and the rule of law.
It's summer time, and the living is easy.
See ya later
KONSERVO, having a little fistfight in the corner? You guys are so fucking limited.
Konservo - You are right about one thing, Bush & Cheney will never lie under oath but only because the King and his puppet master will never let themselves be put under oath. You are truly delusional is you think these are great men doing great things. You would have been a great brownshirt in the era of Hitler's evil.
This game is going to end with a lot of people realizing that they were living in a false dichotomy.
The Dems are no different than the Bush Regime.
Corporate Whores who will leave you naked and broke.
I. AND removal should have been discussed. Screwy this argument that impeachment would serve as some sort of future impediment. Did the Clinton impeachment give Bush's people pause for even a nanosecond? Only to make sure they would be ready if they too were impeached.
They have always been stockpiling high-power defense lawyers ...the Federalists..to insure that Bush would be have an argument as he intentionally broke the law. They specifically research and develop ways to change the interpretation of the Constitution. That started years ago.
I've wanted Bush and Cheney to resign and walk away in disgrace. After watching Moyers last night, I can see the "impeachment" is absolutely required if we are to keep these practices from ever happening again. How do we get the Dems in DC to realize that it's entirely in their hands, and it must be done?
Wow! I watched this last night and was blown away for several reasons. First, what many of us have been talking (screaming!) about trying to be heard for months, even years, has a full hour on TV (granted, it was PBS, but it's a start). Second, I'm even more alarmed than I was about the future of our republic if constitutional experts like this are alarmed. Third, I truly fear for out democracy because I don't see the statesmen or the vertebrae in Congress to really handle this as the principles involved deserve. Fourth and last, I don't know what I can do about it--call my senator in Colorado--Ken Salazar? Hardly! Any ideas?
Rest of the world @ 85:
Send them to Iraq(?), or are you suggesting that UN Peace Keeping forces be sent HERE in the U.S. in order to re-establish a Democracy and the rule of law??
This is the best interview posted on this site EVER. Brilliant dialogue and analysis. Thanks to you, from red state Texas - Bush country. We want our country back !!!!!!!
Before you actually take it that Texas is a RED state, consider Diebold, etc...
And that goes for the whole country.
This program should be shown to the entire body of Congress. Fein is right when he says that most in Congress are ignorant of the Constitution. They are politicians and know little of the founding fathers or Constitutional law. It is really a shame that we are so poorly represented. Congress has become a bunch of corporate lobbyists disguised as elected represenatives. We would be better represented by history teachers instead of mostly lawyers. Call you Reps and Senators and tell them you support impeachment hearings. Even if there are not enough votes, the country needs to be informed about what these crooks have done to the country.
Richard@84, you said:
'Screwy this argument that impeachment would serve as some sort of future impediment."
I think what was meant is that unless it is handled like diffusing a bomb with some patience in a backwards-seeming way it can explode and cause unforeseen damage that can make advantage giving future unintended liberties for another fascist like Bush, and it's only a matter of time. The same is true if an impeachment DOESN'T take place.
The republicans have become so dangerous a bunch, we can be sure another one in office deepens the consequences for us all as a people.
If bush and cheney are not impeached then they MUST be held and prosecuted for war crimes, otherwise we are setting ourselves up for certain doom in the future.
Very good points made by Nichols and Fein. Similarly, last year Richard Dreyfuss was on Bill Maher and said that unless we teach the ideas that America is a miracle to our children then it will go away in our kids lifetime and we will be a fable, a tale that is told about this place that used to stand up for blah blah blah...
This is the link to the Richard Dreyfuss video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd7p1SGMuqU
kevin @ 60:
Punishment can wait. The first priority needs to be to stop these assholes in their tracks.
Watched this last night with jaw dropped.
Love Moyers and this was a gut-wrenching experience to realize we are NOW in a Constitutional Crisis and Impeachment is the ONLY answer OUT...
Fuck the Republicans and their smirky leaders for mis-using the powers when there was no Constitutional Crisis (a president lying twice about a personal, sexual affair).
The Corporate Media Whores will dumb this down to a 3rd grader level and trash the experience we all must go through...a Civics101 lesson (watching the President and VP be impeached and imprisoned for treason).
Do the Republicans REALLY want President Billary Clinton to have Chimpy & Dick's new 'powers'?????
The video of this discussion is up on Moyers' site, and it's impeachy keen
Impeaching these $#@%! isn't just about america, it's about saving face. By not initiating the impeachment process, the american people are telling the rest of the world that they condone what their filthy administration has done and continues to do.
Bloody link thingy no worky
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html
[I just checked them all-the videos and the links in the story and they worked fine for me-Sitemonitor]
cogent, reasoned, and very scary comments! if only our elected representatives would pay some attention...seems like wishful thinking, tho, doesn't it?
Doggiebobo @ 91:
You know? At some point that could happen here, needing help to undo any future fascist moves! Think about it: just a matter of time before the republicans get back in, and probably more dangerous than ever. Other countries can view another bush-like
takeover as a real threat and act on it! A bit of a deviation on the theme but it got me to thinking....
#94 MyGodBeatsYourGod sez
Fuck the Republicans and their smirky leaders for mis-using the powers when there was no Constitutional Crisis
Blaming just republicans for misuse and abuse of power is not right. This is Democracy, people in power will behave only they will be allowed to.
remember yesterday interview, where BillM asks "is there any one in this congress/senate (at present) ready to dedicate his or her time to bring Impeachment ?" and remember the answer from both Nichols and Fein was - NO, actually they didn't even say it aloud they just shook their head saying no.
Impeachment at this point ? Highly unlikely, I would take if this congress can vote for "complete" withdrawal. Impeachment requires lot of guts and sacrifice (I think)
If you have not seen the whole program check it out. Excellent information. Fact is what we need to make decisions.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html
If you please, let the corporate benefactor of Bill Moyers know that we are grateful.
Mutual of America: Your Retirement Company!
1-800-468-3785
http://www.mutualofamerica.com/
"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution. The Vice President takes the same oath.
The Moyers discussion should serve as a reminder to our Congresspeople that their duty is to the republic, not Republicans - democracy, not Democrats. It raised a topic that needs discussion and debate, but most of all it highlighted the lack of knowledge most of us have regarding the content and meaning of our founding document.
I have heretofore been a "pragmatist" on the subject of impeachment, feeling that we are too near the end of this administration to make impeachment a viable option. I was wrong, for many of the reasons raised in the Moyers discussion. The issue in not which party will get the political advantage if it happened, the question is, what kind of nation do we want our kids, and their kids, to live in? The President's first and most important task, as set forth in his oath of office is to protect and defend the Constitution. Protecting and defending the Country is an important, but subordinate goal.
The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution both established America as an "idea" as much as a soveriegn state. The Founder's America was to be the place where justice, equality and respect of law and the dignity of people were paramount. Even though this idea was concieved in a far from perfect manner and excluded more than half of the nations citizens (e.g. women, blacks, native americans) from it's dream of universal political inclusion, it has always been a country that strove to meet it's idea of a a just society that respects the rule of law, the rights of it's citizens and the dignity of people. The recognition in the Declaration of each human being's unalienable rights was not limited by the notation "except in times of danger to our selves or the country". Nor was that recognition qualified to allow the suspension of those rights by any politician, including the President.
This intelligent discussion is the first time that I've heard of impeachment as a cure rather than a punishment. It makes damned good sense!! Pay attention Dems and rethugs alike!!
As for chimpy and the evil one going to live in their mansions; they can try. After impeachment, why cant the government render their criminal asses to the Hague for punishment by the world court. Maybe they would hang like hussein did. That would be justice!!
Excellent. They summed up exactly why it is necessary to impeach.
Otay, methinks Pelosi will be the sacrificial lamb late this year or next year. I just do. Whether or not she deserves it.
An excellent show last night...I was glued to the screen
Bush & Cheney are Cancers on our Constitutional form of government.
The "Framers" wisely provided a cure and it's called:
IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!!!!!
Hear Hear! I don't care whether getting an actual impeachment is possible or not, this administration deserves to suffer the indignity of impeachment like no other. Congress owes it to history to impeach this bunch of crooked scoundrels.
I watched this last night and it was wonderful. Bill Moyers has great programs. If I miss them on Friday nights, I go to the web and watch them later.
And we are indeed in dire circumstances and our elected leaders are failing us and we are failing in our duties as citizens.
The consequences could very well be severe.
Rosanne @ 109:
That will be when Dubya excuses himself from the American public and retires to his ranch in Paraguay.
This show is required viewing by everyone. Stunning in it's frankness, simple in it's solutions. I was on the fence about Pelosi's performance, but after watching this show I'm calling her office on Monday to demand impeachment hearings start now. I urge EVERYONE who loves their country to do the same. Watch this show when it repeats! No excuses to miss it.
yes..saw this last night..I had been so angry and so deflated with the events of
the past few days. When Moyers voiced his amazement that Bush could
acutally, just say, "we'll move on now" after he admitted Plame's name was
leaked..I thought..it's final...we have a dictator. Of course, telling Harriet
not to testify and her "pledge" to the prez was also discusses as a violation
of the Constitution..If Congress does not act..as I saw somewhere..it is
reduced to an advisory board..actually..not even..as the monarchy will not
heed its advice..Reread 1984..we are there..
This was wonderful..calm, clear and so very logical and full of integrity
gatto, the pressure is certainly on to impeach. Let's also think about the fallout when it fails. They'll be more arrogant than ever. Earlier this week thanks to that asshole Ben Nelson the OVP got cheney's funding by one frickin' vote! Although cheney appears to be hiding AH-gen bovine crab that he is.
It's a cesspool of corruption in the houses and Pelosi knows it. I suppose the repukes are *appearing* to distance themselves from bush to save their asses with their constituents, but they're still shit in their hearts when it comes to the real deal of impeachment.
I dunno, three (repug) men making the walk to the WH in the dead of night could be the move to force the hand of the rest of them. Worth a try.
Wow, I wasn't really thinking impeachment at this point should really be a priority... After seeing this I am 100% behind it. I think the Clinton Impeachment off put so many of us because of it's frivolity but really just set the stage to allow Bush to continue disregarding the law this long. Well, enough already.
knock knock knock, hello, congress, is anybody awake in there?
xargaw @ 94:
Bingo! That's why we need a strong 3rd party and some type of runoff system as not to penalize the "Nader" voters.
I loved how they explained why allowing Bush/Cheney to expand the powers of the presidency with no regard to the rule of law sets a dangerous and permanent precedent of power abuse for ANYONE who occupies the White House from now on. The only way to check that is to uphold the Constitutional mandate to impeach for clear violations and high crimes and misdeameanors.
The repugs have to decide impeachment is in their own best interests, and it is. Just three of them in *kak-heave* 'respected positions' have to convince the rest. That's where it has to come from.
Pressuring Pelosi will do nothing but pressure Pelosi. The repugs are enjoying her plight
Picture that sweet sweet summer night at 2am when 3 repugs make that walk to the WH to tell bush his number just came up.
It's gotta come from the repugs.
Probably old news, but I just found out that PBS has his shows archived on their website (or at least parts)
Every American should be forced to watch this discussion. Best tv I've seen in years.
what about the neocons in the White House ? the real organizers : Fleischer,Mehlman,Rosen, Wurmser,Abrams,Perle,Feith,Bolten, Kaplan,Kellner,Ullman( the DC Madam client) and the rest of the neocon pack : Wolfowitz,Zakheim,Edelman,Whitman and the 3 who were every day on the Media in 2002 and 2003 screaming to go to Iraq: Senator Schumer, Senator Lieberman and R. Emanuel , they were every day on the networks with their paranoia message: if we don't attack, nuclear and biological bombs will rain here in the USA, attack, attack...what about these criminals ? they are the real responsible manipulators along the other 2, all of them !
now the www.fcc.gov/ spectrum auction is the real test, it must be open and fair and every device must work on it anytime anywhere for everybody , not just the telcos and cable monopolies, for everybody!!! , make sure the Congress hears from you, this auction is vital to keep America growing !
Doesn't anyone want to discuss the possibilities of making Impeachment real? How it can be done?
I watched the entire program last night. It was superb AND rational.
The question remains: With an impotent Congress, what can WE THE PEOPLE do?
I don't know if our country can bear another 1.5 years of this blatant disregard of the bedrock of our national identity and democracy.
We are, indeed, in a similar position to that opposed and recently experienced by our nation's founders.
doubting_terrance @ 123:
I agree with you doubting_terrance, but will Reps and Dems will allow any third party to rise ?
IMPEACHMENT is a very very very essential procedure to maintain and UTILIZE when it is justified. This is a precious tool that is NOT to be left on the shelf to collect dust when it is there to be for a rare "occasion". This rare occasion has come. This precious REMEDY is to be used sparingly ONLY when our government officials gets out of line and intentionally ABUSES its POWER and continue to DEFY its people, the Congress, the Senate, and BREAKS the LAW. It ESSENTIAL force to use to keep OFFICIALS go in the direction of HONESTY. IT keeps them in line that there are consequences for their BAD ACTIONS. If CAUGHT, the must OWN UP to it. It will teach them that they are NOT KING and bring them to HUMILITY.
This is the GENUIS of the AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. TO TAKE THIS AWAY, is to 'CUT' bloodline that make this NATION so great and unique. This will not only TEACH the government that they can not get away with murder, it will teach our citizens the SAME. Paris Hilton was sentenced to prison. Martha Stewart was sentenced to Prison. The common man was sentenced to prison when they commit a crime. Abromaff was sentensed to prison.
Libby was sentenced to prison, but the President abused its POWER by commuting Libby. BUSH/CHENEY administration lied us into WAR. Nancy Pelosy and Harry Reid is allowing them to get away with it, MUCH LIKE BUSH IS DOING TO LIBBY, letting get away from serving his PRISON TERM defying our JUDICIAL SYSTEM.
THIS BODY OF GOVERNMENT is ALLOWING our systems of LAWS to weaken. IF WE ALLOW this ABUSES of POWER to continue, and NOT utilize the REMEDY to "CURE" it the very FOUNDATION that keep our society civilized will begin to crumble. The COLLAPSE of our SYSTEM OF LAWS and JUSTICES would have begun to deteriorate. The CANCER has already began. THIS NATION collectively understand this.
They did a great job of assessing the academic reasons the Democrats in Congress ought to be charging headlong into Impeachment proceedings to address the Constitutional violations wrought by 6 years of GOP control of the Executive, Legislative and the Judicial Branch of the U.S. Govrenment, but totally missed the reality of why doing so 6 months into their majority control of ONLY the House is pointless.
The Dems in Congress know they don't have enough non-GOP votes to get it done and, most important of all, the "Loyal Bushies" that make up virtually ALL of the members of the Department of Justice who have managed to keep their jobs to date WILL NOT cooperate effectively in enforcing contempt of Congress charges issued against anyone and everyone who refuses to show up for testimony or produce files and documents (refusing to respond to subpoenas) that are required to support the case for Impeachment.
Consequently, the Dems' effort to gather evidence for an Impeachment will go nowhere for the next 18 months. Period. End of story. Welcome to Reality, folks. I'm glad these guests are saying what they're saying. The American people need to have what Bush and Co. have done explained to them whenever possible. But the Dem-bashing is nothng more than counterproductive and will definitely only make life worse for Americans if it translates into fewer "wimpy" Dems being elected to office at the next election..and the one after that.
The politicalization of the DOJ was the most brilliant firewall set up by the crooks and liars in the White House in a whole series of firewalls set up by them to facilitate their agenda.
Until the investigations and changes are made in the DOJ to "de-politicize" it, nothing else that the Dems in Congress want to do about the mess we're in will matter. That is job one.
Stee @ 131:
actually I forgot one more player - Big Corporation- which is bigger and stronger than Reps or Dems.
That leads to a question, is it possible to be a politician -in todays world and in this country- without strong connection to Big Corp ?
Impeachment would be a first step to stem back the bloodshed and loss of treasure. But furthermore, these people should be pursued for war crimes. If they were simply held to the Nuremburg standard, they would wind up at the Hague.
ItsMe@129 you said,
"The Dems in Congress know they don’t have enough non-GOP votes to get it done"
OK then, the repugs are realizing Bush & cheney are sinking their party. They have to come to the realization it's in their best interests or they ARE screwed. That is where it has to come from, the repgs themselves.
As I said before, pressuring Pelosi in this impossible situation will just pressure Pelosi.
We've seen sentiment swing a sweeping arm around and others follow automatically.
This can happen here. This can happen in a matter or weeks. non-GOP pussies too (but we need THEIR names to vote them out next time as well).
Alice @ 29:
Weeeeellll...if Impeachment SOLVES a constitutional crisis, then what precisely was the "constitutional crisis" solved by impeaching President Clinton over his dalliance with another consenting adult? Oh yeah, I forgot -- "he LIED about it." Just like every other man I've ever known, lol.
Well said, sirs!
Link and request for action sent to my congresscritters (even the "R's" Walden and Smith)
Impeachment as the cure for a Constitutional crisis is an elegant idea and the time has come. However, as several other posters have said, it will simply be an exercise in futility if we actually want to see them removed from office. I will be satisfied to see them humiliated and their many crimes and misdemeanors put on full display for the American public to see. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is rotten to the core and totally bought and paid for, but he is not at all stupid. The interests who own McConnell are the same ones who own Bu$hco. Go ahead and impeach, I beg you, but don't expect to actually see a conviction. The real payoff could come after the Bush/Cheney term is over. With enough evidence from an impeachment trial, it may be possible to try them as war criminals.
Ozymandias @ 5:
Beg them? Order them! YOU are the rulers of this country! WE are the rulers of this country! What did Abe Lincoln say? "Of the people, BY the people, and for the people." ORDER your employees to impeach to these criminals. And if they fail to do so, if they "take it off the table," they are criminals too, accessories after the fact.
I hate TV where people sit and scream at each other. I keep hoping that will go out of style.
I think it must be becoming clear to everyone by now that the perjury entrapment and impeachment of Bill Clinton was done in preparation for the current situation - to allow the claim of 'payback' to be made by the Republicons against the Democrats should they attempt to reign in the Son King.
And the panel is right, dead on in the opinion that Nixon's impeachment and trial should have continued even after he resigned. What he did was criminal. Would you let an extortionist go free because he quit his job?!? What's up with that kind of thinking?
What did Nixon do that wound up with thousands of people being killed?
Overstepped his Presidential authority? Definitely. But wholesale, unauthorized murder? That ignominy remains with Bush and nearly turns me into a Nixon apologist, which I most certainly am not.
If Nixon overstepped his bounds, then everything Bush has done since is most definitely overreaching his authority. I don't quite agree that Nixon's pardon was necessarily a bad thing. He was removed from office which was imperative. Further punishment or jail time would have been exacting a pound of flesh to no purpose. Under the Bush Administration it's easy to forget that justice should always be tempered with mercy.
Which is why I will settle for seeing Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Rice, Powell given the bums rush from office to settle in history's shameful corner rather than tried for treason and facing jail time which they most wholeheartedly deserve.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html
you can watch a bit and read transcripts here. Terrific show, calm, reasoned and yet
filled with the urgency we should feel at recent power grabs of the Bush administration.
The objective of this particular discussion should be the mantra of the Senate and Congress....
That this assault on the Constitution by the Bush Administration (or any other Administration for that matter) should be held in check because of the dangerous precedence for future generations....
The only way to voice this concern is impeachment proceedings....
And to have everyone involved accountable for their actions....
Nixon's own party saw the writing on the wall.
Nixon's party followed up and this can happen again. Sheez.
Just watched Bill Moyers eulogy of Lady Bird Johnson. He was eloquent, emotional, and it was incredibly poignant. RIP Mrs. Johnson.
C&L is probably my most visited website, and has been for over 2 years now, but I must say that I am disappointed that links to the entire program were not posted. I just watched it all, and the clip provided, though quite remarkable and engaging, does not begin to do justice the the program viewed in its entirety. For those so inclined, I provide those links below.
Part I: Moyers on Impeachment http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html
Parts II and III: Tough Talk on Impeachment http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html
Part IV: Moyers on the War Debate http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch3.html
After watching this report I wrote the following letter to the Speaker of the House.
Dear Speaker Pelosi,
I encourage Congress to file simultaneous impeachment proceedings against Mr. George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Alberto Gonzales immediately. At the same time indict Harriet Meiers for her failure to appear at hearings. She is not above the legal mandates issued by congress.
It is clear that the President, et al, are not behaving rationally concerning the wars in the middle east, Iraq and Afghanistan. There is more than enough evidence to bring a case for impeachment against each of them. By bringing simultaneous impeachment charges it will call attention to the extent of the corruption and the illegal practices of this White House administration.
The majority of Americans comprehend what Congress seems to fail to understand. That this sitting president behaves like a spoiled child.
Why do you, a Mother, and leader, choose to indulge this dangerous child, who wears the mantle of president of the United States. This same spoiled child that alone has the power to press a nuclear button that can create holocaust throughout the world. I do not understand your failure to immediately press for removal of such a person as Mr. Bush. Please start impeachment proceedings. You were elected to do what was necessary to change the direction of this nation. There is no other recourse at this point.
Avoiding the impeachment process implies that the democrats in congress are as interested as the republicans in keeping the war money flowing into their districts. No matter how many die for the political contributions and profits garnered by the war. Simple logic indicates that the reason democrats have not moved for impeachment is because they, too, have sold their integrity to the lobbiests and war profiteering corporations in order to benefit personal campaign interests.
There is no sane reason to allow this president and his entourage to continue the destruction of America, as well as the ruin other nations it deems unfit to govern their own affairs.
We need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We need to discontinue threats against Iran. And, we need to mind our own business. (caveat: provide food, medicines, and education to those in need).
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