BREAKING: Horrific Twist In Pat Tillman Investigation
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Jul 25, 2007 9:58pm
AP Via Firedoglake:
“This war is so fucking illegal.” (Patrick Tillman)
From the AP:
SAN FRANCISCO -
Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player’s death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
“The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described,” a doctor who examined Tillman’s body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
In other words, Pat Tillman was most likely murdered in the field. In cold blood. By other US soldiers.
This must be what the Bush Administration was trying so desperately to hide behind their all purpose “Executive Privilege” shield. Read more...
I don't have the words. Rage would be an understatement. To think that our f*#king president is using executive privilege to cover this up defies all sense of human decency. I can only hope that the nightmare the Tillman family has been put through will come to an end someday. Heads need to roll at the highest levels of both the military and the government...
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This is so awful... frist
I'm having a REALLY hard time believing it was up close.
I have thought all along that he was murdered for his stance against the Iraq war that he was going to announce fairly soon. He had a telephone call lined up with Noam Chomsky. This kind of thing makes me rethink my thoughts in regards to the government having anything to do with the planning of 9/11, but damn it this administration just continues to stoop to levels that are beyond the belief of most people.. It is so sad... One day a real hero will turn the gun around and do the right thing.. better duck they are coming to kill us.
Is it still so hard to believe that these two cocksuckers would deliberately kill thousands of their fellow Americans to push their sick agenda?
I always had a feeling he saw some sh!t happening he wasn't down with and drew the line, but ended up with the short straw.
BushCo says they listen to the General's on the field, but I guess the General's don't give the same consideration to the doctor's expertise. Oh yeah.. it's all just for public consumption anyway. The American way for truth and justice is all bullshit anyway. Thanks for opening my eyes, President Bush!
No comment.
They murdered a patriot. A patriot in the truest sense of the word. Not like that sniveling blivet stonewalling in the people's White House.
I cannot begin to imagine the anguish his family and friends are suffering, but at least the truth is coming to light. If Tony Snow even dares to spin this tragedy .............
Coming soon, to a "routine traffic stop" near you...Aren't you glad you voted for John Hall?
the blackshirting of our country is scary
And the sleaze just keeps on rollin' ... this from the crew that vowed to "bring decency and respect back to the Offal Office."
Keith says there are emails from the government lawyers congratulating themselves at having managed the coverup. He talked to Wesley Clarke about this tonight. Make sure you get the footage from Countdown tonight. This is what his mother's been saying all along. Now it's the crime AND the coverup. Tillman is like Hamlet's ghost. He's going to bring down the whole poisoned cabal.
Dharma Pup @ 11:
EXACTLY.... You've all been had!
Now turf the fcukers out on their asses!
i can't imagine that they could find fellow soldiers to do such a thing.
unless they were some how orchestrated unknowingly by communications.
This if true will do what the plethora of Bush regime scandals thus far has not done. It will bring down George W. Bush.
Shocking.
Ruthless People @ 15:
Would be nice if that's what happens, but I'm not holding my breath.
Pat Tillman was trying to meet with Noam Chomsky to find a way to end the war. This is the reason he was assassinated. It would have been a PR disaster in election year 2004 for a recruiter’s wet dream to come out against the war with a know “leftist”.
no coverage in the MSM. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I think the most sick thing about this all (of course aside from what actually happened and such), is how the BillO's and such will label this kind of reporting as anti-American hate speech simply because people like you believe that no one should be able to murder, even if it's the president. I just don't get it. I really want to, but I can't. Is it really just the idea that (nondissenting, appearantly) American lives are more important than lives abroad? I mean can that really be why these kind of posts are labeled as anti-American? Someone please give me some more general faith in humanity and tell me there's more to it.
Keep up the good work, Logan.
I can't quite wrap my head around this..
Wonder if this had anything to do with it:
"The September 25, 2005 edition of the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper reported that Tillman held views which were critical of the Iraq war and did not support President Bush's re-election. According to Tillman's mother, a friend of Tillman had arranged a meeting with Noam Chomsky, to take place after his return from Afghanistan. Chomsky has confirmed this."
I can't believe it. There would have to be some pretty indisputable evidence...
Dharma Pup @ 16:
Tillman has become an icon. Americans don't like their icons fucked with or fucked over. Especially squared jawed football players who give up promising NFL careers to enlist to fight. This scandal would be different than all the other Bush regime scandals in the eyes of the American people.
just four heads need to roll and the sooner the better
bush
cheney
rove
gonzales
Tillman:
It makes complete sense why he was murdered. Now it makes complete sense to make things pay.
This really continues to disturb me.
Hmmm, I wonder what Anne Coulter would say, now?
I used to be excited by the very prospect of Bush and his administration being caught in immorality but now I feel drained from the over-saturation of it all. When will something be done to these people to finally provide justice to the American people and all of those whose trust they've betrayed?
Logan -
The president and veep are in contempt of humanity. To them, Tillman was just another tool to be used to advance their inhuman agenda.
Western democracy's biggest achille's heel has always been a failure to provide meaningful obstacles to psycopaths seeking power. Thus, the scum floats to the top.
I'm sure by now the Tillman family are painfully aware of this. Anger, if not outright fury, is an entirely appropriate response to this disgusting display of warmongering cynicism.
The architects of the hostile economic takeover known as the 'liberation' of Iraq deserve their own circle of Hell.
May it be built by the damned of Halliburton and Bechtel.
this is probably the tip of the iceburg. Seriously, there could easily dozens (if not hundreds) of US soldiers mudered by other US soldiers. we'll never know. nobody will ever know anything about went on in iraq, not even the troops in iraq. the whole war is an insane murder mystery tour.
Is it fair to call this particular case of friendly fire 'murder' if it wasn't intentional? Wouldn't that just be manslaughter? That's how progressives always get diminished, by exageration and overplaying their hand with extremist dramatics. Let's not go overboard and call it murder when it was really friendly fire. The real crime here, as usual, is the cover-up. If it can't be linked directly to Bush then we must not hang all of our hopes and energy on this being what brings Bush down.
This can't be true. It just can't be.
I cannot believe he was murdered, and I caution against the accusation.
I also understand the rage, and the contempt, you have for the administration, but it does not merit propogated a rumor of murder.
What is clear is that the claim of executive privilege is bullshit, and there is absolutely no true patriotic reason to stall an open investigation.
We, the United States of America, if we stand for anything of merit, owe him and his family that.
Tug @ 32:
All sides of a story deserve to be told. If we wanted to know nothing we'd turn on our TV's.
Pat Tillman was MURDERED at close range because his coming out against the war was a major threat to the Military-Industrial Complex. Deal with it, the truth hurts. Three shots to the forehead is an assassination. Period.
Three rounds into the forehead from a distance of 10 meters or less, must have been purely accidental.
This administration is pure evil, just wait until the truth comes out about 9-11.
MailHead, the "real" crime here is not the cover-up, it is the shooting. Who was the ironic first to name unintentional or intentional shooting of a comrade "friendly" fire?!
Who are you going to believe, BushCo with its sterling reputation and the MSM that has been terrified to touch this story, or the justifiably suspicious Tillman family which has perservered for investigation? His brother was in the unit, for God's sake.
You know people who say "I can't believe that" scare me. You mean you can't believe something even if its true?? THAT is how this crew has gotten away with all of their evil. Their crimes are so over the top no one believes it when its right there in front of their face.
I am stunned.
One thing that has me wondering is, if this report pans out to be true, how then did they get all the "members" of his unit to go along with the story of him being up there and just being shot at from down range? Or did they truly believed that was what happened because they were TOLD that's what happened by someone who "saw" the events unfold.
As I recall, the members of his unit said Tillman was trying to take cover behind a rock with a translator or Afghan liason soldier and his unit thought he and the liason were the enemy. But there was part of the report that I always found odd as well. Someone claimed they could hear Tillman shouting "Stop shooting, I'm Pat-freakin-Tillman"..or words to that effect. I am trying to remember who said they heard him yelling that out loud as they were shooting at him.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The right wants us to go over board with conspiracy theories we pass off as fact by connecting dots the way we'd like to see them connected. Continue to play into their hands and you'll never break through their walls. We've been so hungry for Bush justice that we're starving for it, willing to accept contempt charges against Bolten, Miers and Gonzales which in the end will mean nothing and will do nothing to hurt Bush's legacy because no one will remember it two years after he leaves office.
I didn't think of much wrong doing when the Tillman case was first uncovered. All I can say now, is Wow. Who would want to shoot a comrade and a fellow soldier? I can't imagine a soldier killing another soldier unless something really deleterious was going on. My thoughts are with Tillman's family.
Pat Tillman, the "Greatest American Hero" was a radical liberal. He listed Chomsky as his favorite author. Had a meeting planned with him when he returned home. He had set up a little library for his fellow soldiers in Afghanistan with books by the likes of Zinn and Goldman. He was encouraging them all to vote for Kerry instead of Bush. He was the greatest American hero. The country was enthralled. He was virtually god-like for millions- especially red staters.
And he was going to come home and people were gonna find out- the Greatest American Hero was a radical liberal.
It's hard to remember how it was at the time, the exact sentiments, the exact mood... but Tillman, had he wanted to, could have single-handedly come home and handed the election to Kerry. It's hard to recapture a sense of that time. But I thought so then. And told several of my friends that I didn't like how it felt. It felt like Kennedy. It felt like MLK. It felt like a liberal with monumental, mammoth connectabiliy, charisma. A figure with the ability to come home and have it all. Any office. Any role. The summa cum laude Greatest American Hero could easily have come home and put himself on track to one day be Democratic President of the United States Pat Tillman. He could have changed America and the world. What an enormously crippling blow that would have been to the Neo-Conservatives. Disastrous.
I remember praying in the weeks before his death that he would come home alive. Not because of combat. But because of assassination. And the day he died, and then the day we first learned of the cover-up, it all seemed too eerie to be real. To this day, his mother publically has stated that she will not rule assassination. Now we learn that this is most likely the case.
Why is it a surprise? No person alive represented a greater threat to the Neo-Conservative movement. The Greatest American Hero a radical liberal? Devastating.
This is the kind of crime that would bring down a presidency. It would make Watergate look like jaywalking. Every possible legal recourse must be pursued with the most uncompromising, determined, focused vigor. The greatest hope for those behind it is that this is something so horrible, people just WANT to believe it can't be true. But with any crime, you first go to motive. And the motive could not be more clear.
This must- must be investigated.
Stunning, just stunning...and I thought the administration could not sink any lower than it already has. Will this be enough for more Americans to demand impeachment of this criminal administration? Will this be enough for Congress to finally do its job?
Mailhead I don't give a godamn what the right wing thinks. They can't handle the truth and you can't either. It has been obvious FOR YEARS that Tillman was murdered b/c of his views on the war and his starpower that he was about to use to catapult those views. Why do you think his family is still pursuing this?? Just because of the cover-up? Spare me. Kevin Tillman knows the truth and its going to come out next week in the congressional investigation.
I myself am going to get a Pat Tillman jersey and frame it on my wall for the rest of my life. When future generations come, and my grandchildren ask what it is, I'll take great joy in explaining the capacity of human cruelty and corrupt government that made it so important.
I will never forget Pat Tillman; not because of his own personal sacrifice, instances of it can be found throughout history. Pat Tillman is no longer a symbol of American patriotism to me anymore. Pat Tillman has become a symbol of how the right wing, or any human being for that matter, could take such a man who sacrificed his future, lie about his death, and then drag his bleeding carcass through Republican conventions for propaganda.
This is so, so sad.
I wish I could say that I'm shocked by these developments, but nothing surprises me when it comes to this corrupt administration. Tillman's brother said that Pat was against the Iraq war, maybe he was going to speak out about it and they had to shut him up.
And he fell to the ground at a slightly greater speed than the twin towers.
elodie. BINGO. Much respect. Right on the money.
fedupwithhypocrisy, again here is someone who is so fueled with anti-Bush (e.g. pro-justice) rage that you cannot see the big picture and anyone who isn't as much of an extremist as you must be for BushCo. I did not say manslaughter wasn't a crime. I simply said the real crime is the cover up. An M16 can lay shots rapidly close together and that's plausible. But murder? Right, and Lennon was murdered by Reagan because he wanted to keep a cap on the anti-establishment crowd even at a time when Lennon had considerably curbed his political rhetoric in favor of family life.
Again, the REAL crime here IS the cover-up. With the initial death of PT you might get as much as a court marshal of a low level solider. With all the evidence we have of a cover-up you get a conspiracy. That's where the meat of this scandal is. Do you want to get from this what you got from Abu Ghraib? Some bad apples who take the fall for the people who were really responsible for it? If you're going to call it murder you have to prove it with something other than, "Bush is like totally evil and stuff" rhetoric.
I believe they covered it up to take advantage of exploiting someone they'd promoted as a hero just like they've exploited all the rest of the troops since the war started.
This is an opportunity catch the administration in an immoral cover-up but the left is going to fuck it up by over dramatizing sophomoric conspiracy theories about Bush/Cheney in the shadows of the oval office ordering a hit on an american soldier.
Please
hayduke @ 44:
I wrote my post below before reading yours. I totally agree with you.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 14:
Imagine the percentage of people in the U.S. who would use a gun willingly against someone they disagreed with . Now apply that percentage to the military and sprinkle in brain-baking desert heat and the infamous cover of "the fog of war" . Yes, they could easily find soldiers to do the deed . But did they ? The only way we'll ever know is if a witness breaks ranks .
I am just heartsick about this. I remember the day I first heard they had burned Pat Tillman's clothing and personal diary - I felt then that it must be murder. The more I learned about Tillman's political views, the more likely it seemed.
And to to top the callous act of murder, they concocted a way to use his death to glorify their "fucking illegal" war.
ONLY the amoral GOP would even TRY to pull this stunt off.
If I were a member of the Tillman family - I would blame every single member of Congress who voted for this deplorable war.
I knew - many here knew - most of the world knew - the war was illegal. How is it that our elected representatives are so irretrievably STUPID?
*
Revolution. Can you say that?
Shur! I knew ya could.
Why the surprise? When mobsters murder they have to cover up the evidence and lie to protect their own. They have to buy off judges and politicians and control the newspaper coverage to keep their operations going. The best way to do this is staff all these organizations with loyalists.
Get it? Mobsters - families who make their livings in organized crime. That would be the Bush Family.
Why is that so hard for people to get?
This makes me so pissed! When are the military leaders going to be held accountable? Bush had pushed this bullshit about all soldiers are brave heroes and patriots 24/7 so that if you question the slightest thing you must hate the troops. This has resulted in a totally insane situation in which thousands and thousands of "dirty hajiis" have been butchered because they were in the way of courageous freedom-fighting heroes. WHEN IS THE INSANITY GOING TO STOP?!! HOW MANY LIES HAVE TO PILE UPON LIES UPON LIES UPON LIES? FUCK BUSH FUCK BUSH FUCK BUSH!!!
Dharma Pup @ 16:
I wonder, this story should make the sports reports which a whole section of the public is exclusively tuned into, so I'm hopeful it has legs.
If Pat's murder finally gets America off its collective butt, I bet he'd be glad.
The implication of the story seems to be that Tillman yelled at this kid who was losing it and that maybe this kid shot him. I dont see anything suggesting he was killed by the Bush administration. Now, the army officer corp is always looking to avoid bad press. Its a CYA organization so they might not want this, or any other, investigation to go forward if they can stop it. Where else on earth does the medical examiner have a suspicion and is told not to go forward? Zaire?
Why would there be a massive cover-up if there was no crime? No logic accounts for this.
We know there is a huge cover-up that keeps contradicting itself. Everyone on the right and left acknowledges that there was a cover-up. Yet, we haven't found a crime yet- until possibly now.
No Conservative in America can answer this: why would you cover up innocence? If nothing criminal happened, then why would there be a cover-up at all? It makes no sense. You don't cover up nothing.
I understand wanting this to be untrue- with all of one's being. It would be a horrible thing to have to believe. But we must, as American, consider the possibility that it is true. Especially with the most secretive administration in American history currently at the helm.
As an earlier post states, there is precedent for powerful, highly charismatic Liberals being assassinated in mysterious cover-ups in fairly recent American history. This would NOT be something new. You simply cannot say that something that has happened before is implausible.
We are talking YEARS after the incident. This is outrageous. It took investigations forced by the Democrats to even begin looking into this and now we are just barely getting results YEARS later after most of the documents and evidence have been conveniently burned. THIS IS A GODDAMN WAR CRIME!!!
99 @ 57:
I think that Pat's brother's plea before the 2006 elections may have had some effect on that election... and it was a plea before Tillman's birthday. Perhaps this will continue the trend in 2008.
This I find hard to believe -- that Tillman could have been murdered by fellow soldiers. That said, our military has been perverted and used, abused and twisted into a shadow of its former self.
As a veteran Marine of 11 years with 3 tours in Iraq under my belt, I hope to God, I am praying with every fiber of my being that this is not true. Please do not let it be true.
I am really, REALLY disturbed by what I've read. This is a truly unforgivable sin that has been brought down upon one of our own courageous, patriotic men in uniform. If what the AP is reporting is true (and I pray that it is NOT), then George Walker Bush and anyone who dare defend him will all roast in the deepest, darkest, hottest circle of hell.
The Champ is out. And disgusted to no extent as well.
stymie @ 47:
WOW - shades of the stunning song - "Crucifixion" by Phil Ochs about the death of JFK.
Which he got to sing personally, in private - for RFK by the way.
*
My heart goes out to the Tillman family with a cry for Justice.
The events of 9/11 demand the same scrutiny. The truth will out.
...
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[deleted--please consult the commenting policy. Posts made to insult or incite a flame war are subject to editing/deletion. Posts made by right wing trolls to try to make this community look bad will be deleted.]
Bob @ 67:
Nut. He may have had that big jarhead look on his face when he was in formal military dress but that was for show. [deleted--refers to deleted post] I wonder if you're only saying that because it turns out he was against the war in iraq. I bet you regarded him as an american hero when he left NFL deal and went to war and died.
Site Monitor: Beware the right wing troll planting comments to link back to their right wing sites to prove that liberals are intolerant.
I did want to point out that 40% of the Army is fundie christians........they are REAL BIG on doing exactly what authority figures tell them to do without asking questions.
V V
MailHead @ 49:
nocore @ 59:
No conservative could answer this... but the wingnut Busheviks will be there usual merciless, lying selves.
...
Vitam Vas @ 69:
Another dot.
Ok folks, enough whining about our rage at this...we MUST band together and get rid of this administration. The Congress says they don't want to impeach because it would tie them up and not be able to do anything else. WELL, IF WE WAIT UNTIL JANUARY 2009 OUR COUNTRY WILL HAVE BEEN TOTALLY DESTROYED. So, Let's get serious...demand action of impeachment...BUSH and CHENEY...clean sweep...
These are murderous bastards, and enough is enough!
Maybe what the say is right. It's not the crime but the cover up that brings 'em down. Cover this up as they obviously did, makes this administration guilty of Accessory to after the fact.
Karl needed a good story line for his TV narrative that week. Seymour Hersch was breaking his Abu Grahaib story.
Those were the glory days for Karl . . . now all he has is cheese in suitcases at the airport.
I have no problem believing it was murder. This administration has shown time and time again they believe they are above the law, and no one can touch them, therefore, they can do anything they damn well please and screw anything and anyone else...I do not want to wait until 2009 to make these murderers accountable...IMPEACH!
nothing that these jackholes do or try to hide surprises me anymore... and thats the sad thing really. We have let this go on too far and for too long, I think impeachment would even do it justice.
HEh @ 75:
I think they shot him to:
A - keep him quiet
B - make a recruiting poster
Its what's so great about sociopaths, nothing gets to them . . . they aren't weak like the rest of us.
Tillman told the wrong person his concern and his intent of getting the truth out...so, he was silenced!
Sheila @ 77:
What happens in 2009 that holds them accountable? Can we impeach a former president? No. Bush is using every last bit of energy to keep us in Iraq until he leaves office so he can then say if we pull out and it goes bad, "See? I told you to stay in." or when we pull out and it goes well, "See? I was right to go in to begin with." The only hope is to end this war before he leaves or else him and his people will have free reign to spin whatever happens as a positive lasting legacy for him. That will be the only legacy he has.
So the race is on to find something on him. Personally, I'm not hearing anyone make the case.
I am OUTRAGED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The stench of this is absolutely overwhelming...I am literally sick at heart and sick to my stomach. My anger needs an outlet...and I won't be satisfied until impeachment is on the table.
This will be the catalyst that brings down the most evil, criminal administration in our country's history.
My heart goes out to the Tillman family, let's hope that Pat did not die in vain.
Sheila @ 83:
I almost peed my pants thinking about it but I must remain level-headed until it becomes reality so I don't get disappointed if it doesn't.
MailHead @ 66:
I'm not saying that it was definatively a "hit"...however, it is well within the realm of possibility.
Now we KNOW that the US government would NEVER assasinate anyone they considered to be a "bad guy" (cough Che cough)
And a "bad guy" to these binary brained fascists is a high profile liberal with indisputable bravery, and patriotism.....one who could take the faux moral authority from their chickenhawk asses with a word.
You think that Bushco is squeamish about spilling some non "one of us" innocent blood to serve their political and cronyistic special interest agenda? I have 650,000 plus dead Iraqi to hold against that claim.
Now realistically speaking, I'm sure that there are 10 levels of "loyal soldier" between the shooter and anyone important....all willing to fall on their swords to protect their beloved superiors.....so this would be difficult to prove.
But you should go ahead and get down on your knees anyways.
V V
MailHead,
I agree with you, whole heartedly, just frustrated as to what we can do...and so angry as to what has happened. Love being able to read others, keeps me sane through all of this.
Move along folks... nothing to see here... keep it moving...
Bush doesn't have to order a 'hit'...He and Cheney have created an atmosphere where it is taken for granted this is what they should do...
xuyu...this is needed...a good way to vent...I prefer to stay. Like your comebacks and logic MailHead.
Nothing will happen to the criminals in the White House until D.C. is so clogged with daily hordes of protestors that politicians will be unable to visit their favorite restaurants, lobbyists and prostitutes. Apathy is the enemy of freedom.
I'd mortgage my house to be able to work full-time to get rid of the bastards in DC...
Tillman held views which were critical of the Iraq war and did not support President Bush's re-election. According to Tillman's mother, a friend of Tillman had arranged a meeting with Noam Chomsky, to take place after his return from Afghanistan. Chomsky has confirmed this.
McCain did a great job covering up for his President and friends. The evidence speaks for itself as the bullets to Pat Tillman's head showed proof that he was shot by a sharpshooter. This is a clear case of murder and the top bass knew it and covered it up. Senator McCain lied to the Tillman family. He is as guilty as the soldier that shot Pat. No one will admit or pay for this murder because crime pays in this Administration. The military bass will do anything and say anything to keep the truth from coming out. But McCain represented the people of his State and he didn't do his job but lied to cover up the crime. McCain should be charged as an accessory to murder
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 18:
Give it until tomorrow. I could be wrong, but this has the potential to create an awfully nasty stink. I mean, this is breaking in the AP, which has been an ENORMOUS administration cheerleader for the last 6 years...
If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, then, well we know the logic here...If it looks like murder (3 close together bullet holes in forehead) sounds like murder (info about Tillman going to talk to Noam Chomsky) well, we know the logic here...BLESS PAT TILLMAN and his family.
Vitam Vas @ 86:
Not that I wouldn't mind VV, you're radicalism and suspicious nature are making me totally hot. But here we are again making debate points like, "You think they wouldn't do it?" You're preaching to the choir brother. You're not going to convince anyone who needs convincing with that sort of rhetoric. "a “bad guy” to these binary brained fascists is a high profile liberal with indisputable bravery, and patriotism….." again, you are placing a dot on the table full of dots you've chosen in order to fit the chart already drawn together. This is not going to work. It's not enough that we know they are evil. We don't need to prove that they're evil. We only need to prove that they did evil things and we are better served by being more passionate and determined than we are angry and unreasonable.
This is just Bush's like 9/11. It's not the intent, it's the incompetence, ineptitude, arrogance or dismissing intelligence because it came from Clinton's people, it's the cover-up (e.g. refusing to meet with the 9/11 commission and then when his people told him he had to coming out and saying, "I'm glad I decided to do it. It was the right thing to do." so he could take the credit for doing something he refused to do. Why must a great leader be compelled to do the right thing???). There was no initial involvement from our government and you will never be able to prove it. The real crime is everything that was done afterward, when they had the opportunity to do the right thing but instead chose to milk that hero angle just a little bit longer before everyone found out the truth. How many people died while he was playing politics with their lives, exploiting the troops which he continues to shamelessly do to this day.
If the farthest of the left allows this incident to become mired in the conspiracy that the Bush admin ordered PT to be murdered to shut him up you will ruin one of the best chances we have to get as close to Bush in a tangible way as we've had. This story will then go the way of bigfoot, loch ness monster and the remote control airplanes into the twin towers with all the passengers apparently having been abducted by aliens.
Is that the smartest thing to do right now with Bush at Nixon level polling? With his world literally crumbling around him with all he's got left is to play the war president card is it really smart for us to do something so stupid that it actually makes him looks sane by comparison.
I'm telling you guys, even if a soldier went crazy and killed him on purpose, which WOULD make it murder, you will never prove it was a high-level hit to silence a person who has only been built up that high in retrospect. The only hope we have of salvaging any justice for everyone who was betrayed in this scenario is to prove that the Bush administration are no different than any other corrupt power in that it is always their arrogance in trying to retain that power that drives them to the desperate and arrogant act of covering up wrongdoing.
That's your angle. I also want to know if Bush knew the truth (friendly fire) before he gave his speech after Tillman died and if his speech was rewritten to avoid any future litigation against him for having known the truth. I guarantee it was written in a way to parse his words to avoid being caught by the people will are trying to catch him now. I guarantee he has been isolated from this very early on.
Sheila @ 89:
I get that and you get that but what do we do with that? Can we impeach them for creating an atmosphere?
With all due respect - the guy was crazy for volunteering in the first place. Did anybody NOT know that this is and always has been a criminal action for the benefit of the thieves in office? Krikey, patriotism is one thing, but reckless stupidity is another. Not that he should have been killed, mind you., but he put himself in the line of fire to benefit a bunch of criminal fat cats. What can you say?
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 14:
Look for the new guy in the platoon.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 18:
No, actually it's on the WaPo's web site right now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR200707...
i can’t imagine that they could find fellow soldiers to do such a thing.
Don't rule out a blackwater contractor instead of fellow soldier.
I have said before that the fact he was killed by three closely spaced bullets to his head means he was deliberately targetted, that whoever shot him knew at what they were shooting. It wasn't panic fire.
MailHead, I do not trust thee.
A friend told me that the soldier who killed Pat Tillman was so pumped up that he wanted to kill anything that moved. He just wanted to kill someone. It just happened to be Pat Tillman. Is this true?
If someone starts a criminal investigation executive priv doesn't apply per United States v Richard Nixon.
People always say, "How could so many people keep quiet about a conspiracy, etc."
All it takes is a threat... implied or otherwise. Oh, and an example or two just to show how serious the threat is.
Fear, my friends. That's what keeps LOTS of people from saying or doing anything to shed light on the perpetrators.
[deleted--and you're entitled to your belief, but that is not a discussion we want to open up on this site.]
Oh, now I get it:
Tillman was known as an athiest. A large percentage of our military is of the fundamentalist Christian persuasion. In a time of extreme stress, perhaps the whole animosity towards athiests boiled over. This is apparently what the Tilman family thinks.
Wow...that is indeed a new turn to the Tillman story. Totally out of step with an account of his death that i had read. Bush will just say they wanted to spare the Tillmans the pain,being the super compassionate bastard he is. Its nice to see that more folks are waking up everyday to this evil administration. Also refreshing that more are open to a more critical view of what started it all too (911). Knowing what we know in regards to these evil fuckers now makes their complicity in 911 even more plausible. One only needs to read the PNAC groups Statement Of Principles on their website and the motive becomes clearer. The dumb bastards signed the confession before committing the crime as far as im concerned. They are in consolidation phase of their plan now. The final act will be any excuse Bush can find to declare martial law,dissolve Congress and install himself as sole dictator. Hes been setting the table for it with his sooper secret signing statements and Government Continuity Directive. I think its time for average Americans to band together and save yourselves. I wouldnt wait too long either. The rats are getting backed into corners.I read the story about Prescott Bushes plan to over run the FDR government with a 1933 style Blackwater Army over his distaste for FDRs "New Deal". Apparently, the Bush family love of facism goes back a few generations at least. I wouldnt put anything past the Decider now.
3 shots to the head does not a friendly fire incident make
And The
BeatCrimes Goes On"It would be futile to impeach Bush so close to him being voted out of office." This is the strong reason for the Democrat's reluctance to impeach Bush. Unfortunately, the Democrats are not aware of the free hand they have given this president. Now Bush has not fear of repercussions resulting from any action he commits from now until the day he leaves.
Justice must be deliverable when it warrants not when it is expedient to do so. Yes, Bush needs to know his number is up and his impeachment can lead to criminal charges should his time as president runs out. Deep down in my "gut", I know Bush has tried to cover up Pat Tilman's death. Not only is it impeachable, it is a criminal act that could send him to
Buba's cellprison.As far as I am concerned, we should never stop the wheels of justice from turning, especially when it involves so much loss in human life. Bush did it; we don't know how much he's done; we need to find out how much he has done; justice will render our efforts worth while. Lets get the ball rolling.
Joseph
The significance of the 3 shots is that it was most likely the 3-shot burst from the weapon. From a distance that grouping will seperate. The clustering is clear evidence that the shot happend much closer.
BTW, has everyone noticed that Drudge is conspicuously silent on what would normally be a bomshell breaking story? Clearly he has been advised to try and squelch it.
How many investigations were required to uncover this info? I remember at least 3 previous investigations. WTF?
Bush knew. Cheney knew. Rumsfeld knew. Rove knew.
--
All the idiots with the yellow Support the Troops must be real proud.
Just look at what is currently happening to Pvt Scott Beauchamp. He's the one that spoke out in New Republic and now the Freepers are trying to get their buddies in the military to give him some 'special treatment'. Once a person speaks out, they are immediately targetted by the Right-Wing haters. Beauchamp will be hounded out or the military within days, I guarantee it. We have created these monsters by hyping up the whole bullshit meme "all soldiers are heroes and courageous patriots".
What are we supposed to do with our anger? It seems like every day some new horror story like this comes out. It makes me boil with uncontrollable rage every day again and again. It seems like the leaders we give all our taxes to are committing crime after crime after crime. This is a living nightmare.
Guest @ 29:
That sums it up perfectly.
Pat Tillman may turn out to be a hero for a completely different reason than we were led to believe. By taking three closely spaced M16 rounds in the head, Tillman may help bring down the most heinous criminal regime in American political history.
Finally we can fight the bad guys where they live, here in der Homeland.
Thank you for your service, Citizen Tillman.
Nope, not this time. I refuse to be surprised by the depth of perfidy. It always turns out that it is worse than my tortured, cynical mind can envision, and I try to get out in front of it by assuming the absolute worst. And usually my self-defensive pessimism gets beat by Bush Co. Damn you, George Bush! (shaking fist in the air)
I thought the only guys to get fragged were the ones who incompetently led their soldiers into unwinnable situations.
3 shots are a standard burst from an M 16 set on semi automatic achievable with 1 trigger squeeze.
the crime is the cover up and no investigation (typical army CYA).
if there was murder or not an investigation needed to happen and be public.
Sheila, you might be on to something. It could very well have been one of those, "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?", sorts of things.
How terribly tragic, but I am not surprised - it's quite clear why the cover up was so massive. His brave mother and family are not spared any ugliness imaginable. Had it not been for mother's/ family stubborness demanding the full discovery, the world would rely on the set of lies invented in this case as well. The WH slime hopefully will really slip on this one. Then the 9/11 turn, that turned my own life upside down, until now. My friends and neighbors are still dead since 9/11.
The POTUS and his dummy W have one scapegoat already ready:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR200707...
General Faces Demotion in Tillman Case
By LOLITA C. BALDOR
The Associated Press
Thursday, July 26, 2007; 5:37 PM
WASHINGTON -- Army Secretary Pete Geren is expected to recommend demoting a retired three-star general for his role in providing misleading information to investigators about the friendly-fire shooting of Pat Tillman in Afghanistan, military officials say.
In what would be a stinging and rare rebuke, Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger, who headed Army special operations, is one of seven high-ranking Army officers expected to receive official reprimands for critical errors in reporting the circumstances of the Army Ranger's death in April 2004.
... Tillman's mother, Mary, said the impending punishments were inadequate.
"I'm not satisfied with any of it," she said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
She rejected the Pentagon's characterization of the officers' offenses as "errors" in reporting her son's death, when several
officers have said they decided against telling the Tillman family that friendly fire was suspected...
C'mon guys. The travesty are the lies that Bushco rancidly promoted about how he died. He died in a screwed-up military fiasco brought about by forcing a tired ranger unit, bogged down with a broken vehicle, to limp along in enemy territory until they were ambushed and all hell broke loose.
There were two automatic weapons (machine guns) firing at Tillman's position- a Squad Automatic Weapon, and a 50 caliber machine gun. I've fired the SAW, and it will put three bullets in 1 place in a hurry.
The soldiers in his unit wouldn't stand for one of their own getting murdered on purpose. For fuck's sake, you think Army Rangers would allow that coverup to happen? That is how this came to light in the first place!!!
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062306_tillman_files4.shtml
I said from the beginning that Tillman was murdered. And its not the only inside job around either, just open youe eyes and examine the evidence.
.... and I'm talking about the enlisted Rangers in his unit, not the cover-my-ass career officers.
If true, I suspect the shots were probably fired to spare Tillman from enduring an agonizing death. That is, his comrades, whose fire had mistakenly killed him, found him conscious, without hope of surviving his mortal wounds.
Wake up America
Your government carried out 911 and you are surprised they would cover up the murder of a football player?
Lane @ 113:
Or the person taking the shot at a distance was in a braced shooting position so that his weapon wouldn't move much during the three round burst. Tillman was a stationary target as my understanding is that he was hunkering down, trying to avoid incoming fire. So someone had the time to get into a stable shooting position and fire.
To stop this war get on the telephone and call your congressman and tell him or her to support Rep Conyers House Resolution 333 for the impeachement of Dick Cheney and George Bush for their lies on ontelligence regarding the Iraq war and the threats to attack Iran, a country that poses no threat to the US. Conyers will start hearings if 2 more reps sign his resolution. Get on the phones!
Um I dont know if anyone has considered this but:
He went into a war like a gung-ho idiot and got killed......
End of story.
I mean I totally agree that there is something fishy here and that its not a good thing and heads should roll. But they wont. He (and every other person that signed up for the army/marines et al) are getting what they asked for: A chance to fight for the ideals of the administration in charge and a few thousand bucks.... I dont feel sorry for them - I feel sorry for the ones that knew this was a ploy from the beginning and have watched our country's ideals and reputation ruined.
Pat got what he asked for.
They will simply say it was an accident and in order to prevent any negative issues that would affect the fine and heroic soldiers who otherwise preformed honourably and with great courage they chose to take this path and let Mr Tillmann come out as a hero.
Then again any criticism can be defined as hate speech against the soldiers.
Face it boys and girls, the US is no longer a republic.
I have read this article, and other articles on this topic.
"In other words, Pat Tillman was most likely murdered in the field. In cold blood. By other US soldiers."
Am I reading FOX news from a judgmental left?
[Deleted all caps portion of post. I will say to you-read the article at least the blurb under the headline-making reference "to documents obtained by The Associated Press." Your accusation is without merit-Sitemonitor]
Smack_dab @ 129:
If someone had time to draw a bead on Tillman's forehead, wouldn't they be able to recognize him?
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick, this is the third freaking different story we've heard about the death of Cpl. Tillman. When are they going to open the actual records and tell the damn truth?
In the last story, Tillman was killed with fire from a .50 caliber machine gun. I'm pretty sure that a medical professional in the US Army would be able to differentiate wounds from a .50 caliber and an M-16. And previously, this was a three party engagement with one group of enemy that caused the two groups of US troops to fire on each other. Now this report says there is no evidence of any enemy fire?
Mind you, I don't think that this is evidence of Bush being complicit in murder or anything - it could have been a soldier who snapped, or it could have been an attempt to mercifully end the life of an otherwise lethally wounded soldier - but, for fuck's sake, we're all adults here! We don't need a comic book story. How about we hear the truth?
I don't think this proves
[...] filled with heroes like Pat Tillman. A man who was gunned down by his own fellow soldiers and whose death was covered up by our own Military, and then covered up more by our own Executive Office. We live in a land where they protect the [...]
My deepest sympathies to the Tillman family. This is the first I've talked about this issue, but Corporal Tillman deserves justice. Please, demand personal involvement from your elected representative, regardless of the party, to support the investigation no matter where it leads. To those who are speaking of the moral depravity involved and how it makes you reconsider 9/11, I deeply sympathize. No one wants to believe that their leaders are capable of such things. I myself fought hard against my own cognitive dissonance, refusing to look at the evidence offered and ridiculing the person who first tried to show me conflicting information. But as painful as it is, we must investigate and allow accountability to fix the system. On behalf of those who have died in the war of terror, please impeach george bush and dick cheney, but do not stop there. Punish all of the September criminals and restore transparency to your political process.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
tragic @ 131:
Hey, I believe the war in Afghanistan was terribly misguided and a bad idea from the start. Of course, it was mismanaged too. The war in Iraq was absolutely criminal, in addition to being monumentally stupid.
That's my opinion, and, of course, I think its the most rational way to look at things. But other people see the same facts from their own perspective and can come to different conclusions. Tillman was compelled by a sense of duty and service to enlist - at that point he didn't have anymore control over how he was used. He didn't choose my path, but he didn't choose the details of his either. From what he knew, he made a decision with the intention of serving his country.
And thank goodness that he did "go into war like a gung-ho idiot." Until we live in a much more just world, there will be a role for military personnel for the purpose of the defense of innocents. That is what Tillman signed up for, it was his superiors who got him into the fucked-up war.
Even for progressives, its necessary to open one's mind on occasion.
Sorry Old Billy but if the military's job is the 'defence of innocents' they are really failing.
The army does not serve the people but the government. And they do not give a crap about the innocents as countless wars (and warcrimes that of course will never be investigated because the super duper americans NEVER do stuff like that) have shown.
Sad to see that even people here on C&L still have such ideological illusions about the military.
Faux is Fiction @ 3:
I suspected and posted as much many many moons ago. Pat Tillman was going to influence alot of young minds and introduce them to Noam. Then he gets the 'Cheney Salute' in the field RFK style.
I have been also suspucious of 9/11's motivations. Unfortunately they seem to be unfolding as a nightmare.
Carrot & Shtick @ 13:
Are you kidding? I want a murder trial!
stinger123 @ 26:
Exactly what 'they' tell her to say.
MailHead @ 30:
"Opps, I accidentally tripped and put three rounds in point blank range into your face."
Are you seriously telling me that "accidents happen" like that?
So... Your one of those people who believe steel burns eh?
HEh @ 70:
Been saying this for years too... It's time we all woke up and saw what several generations of Fascists do with their time...
Smack_dab @ 129:
FriendlyFire @ 124:
The new report confirms that what you claim is a lie. There was absolutely no evidence of any enemy fire whatsoever. I don't know if you've ever served in the military, but if you take round after round of AK-47 fire, there is going to be some evidence.
LongTooth @ 127:
That's the most bullshit theory I've heard yet. If that was the case, then hundreds if not thousands of soldiers in Iraq would have ended up like that. Instead, even when both arms and legs are blown off, they are medevac'd so if they do die, it will be at hospital and not counted as a combat fatality. Tillman was definitely not a mercy kill situation. I guarantee it.
truth @ 107:
That is precisely correct. In the military almost anything can be kept quiet. Just look at Haditha and the othe cases right now. No one has gotten a lengthy sentence and these are cases of straight up murder and burning of bodies - also rape!! It would be like giving Jeff Dahlmer a suspended sentence of 3 months or time served. The military knows how to cover shit up believe me. A recent example just today is that soldier Scott Beauchamp who wrote for New Republic. He is being hounded out at this very moment for speaking out. The Right-Wing put a bullseye on him and won't be satisfied until his fellow soldiers crucify him. That is how these scum operate.
frank @ 139:
I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying its possible for one to believe (in good faith) that the military's job is (or should be) the defense of innocents.
I didn't say I believe that.
I know that I'm always right, but in this here democracy, I reckon I let a lot of people believe their illusions.
Listen, folks... the guy VOLUNTEERED... he KNEW what he was getting into... if he wasn't smart enough to see that Bush was full of lies WHEN he enlisted, as it was ALREADY very well know what kind of criminals were running that war, then it's his own life he risked by being there. I'm a chicken... I never would have gone.
If we had a DRAFT, that was fair to ALL, then i would have sympathy... but this was a guy who WANTED to support the Bushies and the war MOST of us already knew was illegal long before Tillman enlisted.
No, i'm not happy he's dead, nor am I happy about the way he was probably killed, nor am i happy about the coverup... but remember: HE VOLUNTEERED to go. Case closed.
This is too horrible to consider, so I will withhold judgment for now until, if ever, this is cleared up.
Hmmm, I wonder what Anne Coulter would say, now?
"Soldiers are just cowards with their backs against the wall. The lowest IQ men in our society, those incapable of normal careers enlist. Their choice in life; prison or the military. Some will have to die in the support of our cause."
Ann Coulter – 11/06/03
King of Mean @ 150:
Bud, as far as I am concerned, as a disabled veteran, a fellow Ranger was murdered. This case is NOT closed. In fact I am going to be calling my congresscritters and demanding they personally take interest in this. All my ex-squadmates are going to hear of this from me, if they don't already know.
The Bush administration participated in the cover up at the highest levels, otherwise Bush would have never tried to claim Executive Privilege.
In a court of Law, someone who covers up a murder is as guilty as the one who pulled the trigger.
3 rounds to the head from 10 yards away was an execution. This was no accident. This was done, not with a 50 cal, or an AK47, but with an M16.
Whoever did this knew exactly who they were shooting. Faces are very clear from 10 yards away.
Someone has to pay for this, and as I said, everyone that covered up is also guilty of murder, by US Law.
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