Countdown: More Political Problems for the Pentagon?
By Nicole Belle Thursday Jul 26, 2007 11:01am
(thanks to Heather for vid)
Gen. Wesley Clark talks with Keith Olbermann about Defense Secretary Robert Gates' response to Sen. Hillary Clinton, the games the Pentagon is playing with Congress's attempts of oversight, ostensibly on the say-so of the White House and the tragic story unfolding surrounding Pat Tillman's death.
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Fris.......oh, nevermind.
Changing Keiths image with the Bush Bots as the O'Reilly of the left is the biggest problem.
Probably hopeless at this point since this country is polarized beyond repair.
Grover Norquist: "My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."
Well, let's see how well his goal is progressing:
Destruction of the Justice Department - check
Destruction of the Pentagon - check
Destruction of the Education Department - check
Destruction of the (fill in the blank) - check
I'd say it's going quite well.
Next stop on the American Express: total anarchy amongst the proletariat, whilst the Elite party like it's 1999.
Thank you for this one, Nicole. I hope we keep the heat on this case. As Gen. Clark said, the cover up goes higher than just some 2-3 star. Bastards. Poor Pat, poor Pat's Mom. God damn them to hell.
Orwell's Illegitimate Son @ 3:
And America's infrastructure falling apart due to lack of maintenance and funding. Bridges falling apart, roads crumbling, sewer systems collapsing, steam lines exploding etc.
Probably the Greatest Heist In World History. Right here in the "Homeland".
The Tillman situation is totally disgusting. Nothing is sacred to this godless administration, except protecting it's worthless, lying, sanctimonious ass(es).
One can only hope that the Tillman family will finally find truth, they deserve no less.
Destry Destroy everthing sacred the constitution, rule of law, everything awaits the final take over of Gov't into the new world order..........I'm with it destroy HEHEHE
Army Billing Vets For Damaged Equipment
Check this logic out. Someone commenting on the story.
"Yeah... he may have been discharged but it sounds like he didn't turn in some of his TA-50. Before my hubby went active but AFTER he left the Guard, he was sent a bill about 4 years after the fact for $1500 in issing TA-50 gear.... even though it was turned in but it was so far after the fact (and well before his marriage) he didn't have any proof left. We got it removed from his credit report but we did have to pay it. And since the two sides don't talk to each other, we managed to keep them from discovering that he had gone active or they'd have pulled his paycheck instead...... as opposed to a couple months ago when a piece of equipment fell off his helmet in a sandstorm at NTC... they took the $500 right away, while we still have yet to get our family separation pay from that training trip.
But seriously, they do have to charge people for missing things because if they didn't, they'd never get it all back or in usable condition. Yes, we learned our lesson and I have every scrap of paper dealing with issued equipment to make sure that our rear ends are covered. It's something you have to do."
TDoff @ 6:
But this is supposed to be the President anointed by God, Just ask the (im)Moral Majority and their leaders like Pat Robertson
/obligatory snark tag
Bush trophy soldier ended up being an Atheist who was murdered. When a propaganda tool doesn't go the admin's way cover up the facts in hopes the public will continue to be deceived.
It's beginning to look like Pat Tillman was a victim of, using the Vietnam-era term, fragging - the killing of an unpopular commanding officer by his subordinates. There were many documented incidents during the Vietnam war and probably dozens more that we'll never know about.
It's also likely that there are more incidents from this war that we'll never hear of as well.
Pat Tillman, being a famous football player, will get what little attention the MSM will be willing to risk and his family will eventually get some much deserved justice. The rest will remain hidden under the false cloak of national security because their families don't have political clout.
You just knew this was what really happened. Tillman was a nightmare. He had the pull and respect to go public and be heard about how screwed up the "war" really is. He was an intellectual and independent maverick. Can't have that. Hopefully this story gets out to the sheeple so maybe it will begin to sink in that there is no sanctity, or respect for the common folk.
2 M-16 bullets in Pat's forehead from 30 feet away after he argued with one of his own men. The autopsy Doctor called for a criminal investigation and bush won't give up the whitehouse E-mails regarding the Tillman whitehouse whitewash.
Keith Olbermann on MSNBC and our local Phoenix CBS TV news are the only ones that mentioned a possible murder.
For the record: Pat was an atheist who was against the Iraq war.
Bush had tillman fragged, he could not be left alive to speak truth to power. How many more are out there? and who will be next?
TIKI AL @ 13:
So you just know what the rightwingers argument will be, since Pat was a liberal and atheist, he deserved what he got. What was the name of the general who callked Pat worm food? I remember reading posts on LGF, regarding the Plame Affair, who said all liberals and democrats, who worked for the CIA, should be outted.
One of the more troubling aspects of Tillman' affair, was that immediately after his death the military burned his uniform and his diary. Has anyone heard an explanation for why this was done?
God is pissed!
Audio clips and updated links to this story
OT: Just watched Snowjob give his usual BS press conference with the Capitol Reporters.
Hope Mark Twain will not mind me para-phrasing his outstanding quote; but here goes:
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose your were a member of the "capital press
corp". But I repeat myself."
That bunch of scumb who sit their laughing and smiling when not getting a straight
answer or an honest answer to questions they pose, should be ashamed of themselves
to claim that "they" are news reporters. In fact, the entire MSM are slime and do not
attempt to find the truth to ANY of the crap that is being done by this admin...Sick !
Liberals need Wes Clark to rush in to the rescue and provide credibility and stature every time they get in some scuffle (or any time they need to campaign for (re-) election).
If Clark is the Democratic party's greatest source of credibility and stature, why aren't we just making him president. He's never called on any of our current candidate to rush to his rescue. He doesn't need them to. But they have all called on him.
nocore @ 19:
And he's a general. Any commanding officer worth his salt realizes how much of a strategic clusterfuck Iraq is.
Republicans do not support funding infrastructure maintenance, for the person who mentioned infrastructure above... Republicans don't like doing maintenance...period.
L.A. Confidential @ 5:
Two comments:
1. It occurred to me today that perhaps the whole idea is privatize everything. You want a new bridge? Great, you pay a toll. You want schools, you owe us.
2. I don't understand why Edelman has a job anyway. He was a recess appointed in August 2005, so his job should have ended at the beginning of this Congress. Did Cheney try to pull something over our eyes?
Impeachment Logic
Have we had enough? Is there anything left for this president to do to his people and their government? He's only one man who can be checked. Bush has been afforded too much. I actually had to check myself yesterday as I entertained the idea justice was not in the best interest of the American people. The idea was it would be a defocus to begin a process of impeachment, and by the time we initiated impeachment proceedings, it would be time to vote Bush out of office.
As more and more unfolding possible wrong doing percent with increasing questionable actions from this administration, it is clear this president feels "he's on the way out, so what the hell, what can the Congress do." Finally, Bush and Congress, the Democrats, agree on something, and if I were in Bush's shoes, I would be in this agreement 100%.
Law enforcement officers don't stop arresting criminals one hour before they get off. They just don't let crimes go for the other shift to handle them; and, nether should the Congress and the Senate allow Bush's very high crimes and misdemeanors go because he's going to be voted out soon. Could that be why Bush continues to build on his impeachable actions?
Claims of Al Qaeda in Iraq and this administration's stonewalling associated with Pat Tillman's murder are both impeachable offensives. Al Qaeda in Iraq claims are impeachable because it seeks to misinform the American people for the right to kill more Iraqis. You see, the only way Bush can calm the violence in Iraq is address the civil conflict. If he can make one side Al Qaeda, especially the Al Qaeda that flew plains into the Twin Towers, they can eliminate one side with no outrage for excessive killing. Most Americans want revenge for 9/11 so no one will mind if they thought they were killing Al Qaeda. That's why Bush and his un-straight up General Petraeus know with certainly the surge will work: They plan to create a modern day killing field complete with genocidal killings of their crated Al Qaeda in Iraq.
The Pat Tillman incident is obviously impeachable and I think still holds many unknown possible outages impeachable actions.
The point is clear. When crimes are committed, they must be addressed. No one should have the feeling they are untouchable. If I were in Bush's shoes, I would be licking my chops and committing every questionable political action in my favor because after all: I would be on my way out. Justice must be swift to set an example, and not used only when it is expedient to do so. Bush should be made to look behind his shoulder because he fears the steps of justice on his tail. We must impeach Bush, and if we run out of time, put his butt in jail.
Joseph
Impeachment and then very public trials are the only remaining course of action to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world.
Someone in the whitehouse probably said something like: "This could be bad for PR and recruiting. Make up a cover story that has Tillman KIA, give him a Silver Star, and sweep this under the rug."
Even I don't believe bushco planned the possible murder, but more likely it was an act of rage by a disgruntled bushie godbot who didn't like taking orders from someone with a brain who didn't believe in god and wasn't drinking the bushco Kool Aid.
I hope Pat's mother, Mary Tillman, whom I respect greatly keeps the pressure on and gets to the truth after 3 snowjob investigations did not. Is it asking too much to know why and how your son died?
"...one nation
indivisible with liberty
and justice for ALL!!!"
impeachment is the only way these criminals are not going to get off with a pardon...
justice was meant for all. no one should be above the law, we all live here, even people who don't have to follow the rules. so should our government, so should our white house, so should our president...
I have to confess.
I have come to hate Pelosi more than I despise the Bush Regime.
I fucking hate that woman with every fiber of my being and then some.
It put’s impeachment BACK ON THE GODDAMNED TABLE, BITCH!
You want Pelosi to put impeachment back on the table?
That will happen if Cindy Sheehan follows through on her threat to challenge Ms. Nancy for her congressional seat.
If Mary Tillman were so inclined to enter a congressional race, she should pick any ReThug down in the San Jose area (cause Mike Honda is one of the few Democrats I respect and support), she'd win in a landslide.
Too bad Mrs. Tillman can't challenge Pelosi, too. Neither Tillman or Sheehan has to win - all they need to do is take 30-40% of the vote from Pelosi and watch the fall out.
Message sent - IMPEACHMENT, Bitches!
The way I see it, this might be the case with someone of notoriety. Which leabes one to beloeve that there may be many other incidents that were swept under the rug. And unsuspecting loved ones have been falsely notified of the circustances.
For Tillman, who gave him the medals and why and when?
by the way,
it comes to no suprize that the Bush Adm has party affiliated partisaned the Pentagon and its stagg. But it still is upsetting to see it rear its ugly head as from the Pentagon in this case as many other cases. From an Administration that continues to hide itself by wrapping itself in the American flag and playing the swift boat game of "calling people unpatriotic and abetting the enemy".
From a bunch of deferment non military chickenhawks that cannot stand up in the open with their chickenhawk pasts of their chose careers.
There is no reason that Edelman should still have his job. Unless Gates has been told by the President that he stays...........................................
Impeach!
It's not unheard of to hate those that stop you in the way of progress. Bush knows what he is doing and has no pretension that he is for the elite few, while Pelosi pretends to be serving the majority interest but protects the president instead of protecting us. Its a shame that we have a woman speaker of the house that is too timid to put impeachment on the table. I hope all woman in America can still see past that and realize that a strong woman that can stand up against lawlessness and make amend for what is right under the pressure of a bully. Pelosi is not a good character for woman to look up to, and respect.
I can't believe our country got to this point of Pinochetness. The media lapdogs should be ashamed of themselves for their appeasement of the junta's tyranny
Let's get the fucker!
DoD = armed wing of Republican Party
I say we put up a concrete fence to encircle the Pentagon and rename it the Pentagram.
A compelling argument can be made that it's now time for us to outsource
our National Defense to Al Qaeda or Pakistan.
By co-opting them, that would pre-empt the "fight them there, so we don't
have to fight them here" argument.
[...] Watch Video [...]
OK, now even our local Phoenix Fox Noise TV is reporting 3 bullet holes in Pat Tillman's head from 10 yards and that the 2nd explanation for his death doesn't make sense.
Another subpoena for rove, please.
Bic @ 26:
The reality of the situation, my friend, is that impeachment cannot be taken off the table. It is part of the Constitution, the foundation of our society & laws. You can't cherrypick the Constitution. What Pelosi has done is to take her oath of office "To uphold & defend the Constitution" off the table. It is an act of cowardice, a betrayal of the American voter and will be judged by history as one of the greatest political blunders of all time. The founders of the Constitution, especially Jefferson & Madison, feared a President that would abuse the power of his office & turn to tyranny. They made impeachment part of the Constitution to prevent this from happening. And here we jolly well are in the 21st century, with King George W. Bush, a cancer on our country & IMPEACHMENT the ONLY effective cure.
Bush intentionally had Tillman murdered to use him for his selfish, sick, Rethug. political propaganda.
If the democrats were smart they would harp on the Tillman case. How can ANYONE not be disgusted by the use of Tillman as a propaganda tool. I personally feel as though he was murdered. Why else would they destroy the evidence - including his diary.
They need to get the doctors and the shooter to appear in front of congress.
So now we learn that the president of the United States of America and his staff not only has been covering up the murder of Pat Tillman, but has been using Tillman's death as a propaganda tool.
Does America know about this? If not, why not?
Wayne @ 9:
And that is supposed to make me support this god? :(
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Yellow Elephant Safari @ 11:
He was an enlisted man, a soldier, not a commanding officer. You don't "frag" your buddies. I hope you would have the courage to make this accusation to the Rangers who have to live with mistakenly killing one of their own. According to the action report at http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062306_tillman_files4.shtml , he was dead on the ground by the time the bullets smacked him in the head. The guys in the Humvees were in a stable shooting position, at dusk, 40 meters away. They were firing fully automatic weapons, not assault-rifle 3-round bursts. You are really insulting the other person who died, killed mistakenly by their own unit. Pat's brother Kevin was in the group of soldiers who fired on Pat's group. Read the account, multiple times, and then ask someone who knows something about firefights before you judge. You denigrate Pat's service by concocting a murder plot from within his own unit, men he trusted as brothers in arms.
TIKI AL @ 38:
Yes, but not for how he died. For the coverup of a friendly-fire incident, yes. For the coverup of the stupid command decisions that put these soldiers in Taliban-held territory in a narrow canyon at dusk, making them violate their standard operating procedures, refusing to let them dump a Hummvie they were towing over a primitive road with an uncooperative scared shitless Afghan driver driving a civilian truck....yes. Fry the bastards.
Until you see what a SAW firing 5.56 ammunition can do to a human skull, you don't know what you are talking about.
Don't accuse the soldiers on the ground of murder unless Pat's brother Kevin, who was part of the group that fired on Pat, says it was murder. Kevin was behind the Hummvie that had the soldiers with the automatic weapons that shot Tillmann and the Afghan interpreter. O'Neal, the guy who Pat saved by pushing him behind a rock, isn't going to let them lie about how Pat died, either.
IN THE COLD @ 7:
Why did these words make me think of the dying words of Jack the Ripper from an old Star Trek Episode? If it's what you intended, it is sadly appropriate as a caricature of our current "leaders." Except for the dying part.
BTW, Wes Clark owuld be a helluva good president. Mea cupa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa for not seeing this in time for the 2004 election.
Jon at 40, "if the democrats were smart they would harp on the Tillman case". I agree and also have another reason why. Of the several claims of executive privilege, I think the WH's claim in the Tillman case is the weakest and is where the Democrats should hit them in the courts. A week or so ago we were all scratching our heads and wondering why the WH made such a claim. Another Olberman interview had legal scholar Jonathan Turley baffled by the WH's decision because on the surface the WH shouldn't be able to claim executive privilege in a matter that lies in the DOD, not the WH. In other words, I think there's an Achilles' heel there.
C'mon boys & girls....think deeper. The Pentagon is the biggest spender of public money. It is the biggest employer (above min wage) in the USA. It has the strongest union. Their business is WAR. They need WARs to justify their existence and spending budget. Fuck with them and your gone.
EVEN A PRESIDENT is subject to having his membership cancelled by this COMPANY.
The USA is no different than that of any Central American Gov't in the sense that it's Administration can be overthrown. It's just that the USA will do it more discreetlly.
This is one scary lot of friggin people and every American citizen should become aware of how vulnerable and compromised their safety has become.
Oh come on, let's stop talking about depressing stuff. When I was in jail, I decided to be a better person and do things to make the world better. Hey, isn't that General Clark just too hot!!! Wow!
Hey mister Da Spyda, I read your comment and it sounds like you're a little stressed. I was stressed like that when I went to jail. They almost let me out of jail, because They were scared that I'd get sick and sue them or something. It didn't work for me but maybe it'll work for you. When are you getting out of jail mister Da Spyda. Wanna meet me when you get out?
Sorry mister Da Spyda, I guess my last comment should have been addressed to The Political Junkie. You were only responding to his maniacal rant (kind of a big word for me, huh?). Well anyway, do you still want to meet when you get out of jail?
Wes Clark is more qualified to be President of the United States than any American to arise in any of our lifetimes. Period.
It's a joke that Democrats aren't begging him to announce.
Especially considering that he says he's "thinking about it every day."
A joke is right, Nocore, I'm beggin General Clark to come out partying with me and Lohan and Britz. I'll drive! Just a joke. Don't call the Judge, ok?
L.A. Confidential @ 2:
Just 'cuz some putz gives you a label doesn't mean it's real, or that Keith is compelled to take it on.
Divide and conquer, the oldest, ugliest must-have trick in the book for every would-be fascist fuckwad.
But we DON'T have to play.
Paris@52, You must the be Zombie of the evening. Your vapid stupidity really stands out!
Remember when Gates actually started crying when he was talking about Iraq? I heard David Brooks on the Newshour tonight, talking about the conflict in the White House between the competent people and the idiots. It must be very frustrating.
ThePoliticalJunkie@28,
"Too bad Mrs. Tillman can’t challenge Pelosi, too. Neither Tillman or Sheehan has to win - all they need to do is take 30-40% of the vote from Pelosi and watch the fall out."
Think, man...the fallout could be a repug win. If Pelosi were unseated by a Sheehan win, the repugs would eat her for breakfast, THEN what? We'd have to say everybody loses.
Were we living in simpler times, maybe. But we're not.
I've said before, I think Pelosi will be the sacrificial lamb in all this. I don't know what she's thinking but won't, or can't be straight with us.
nsr @ 57:
FANTASTIC! a duel at dawn..Gates does the merciful thing and puts our country out of it's misery.
Thanks Crazylove,
Edwards and Clark would be a dream ticket - always easy on the eyes and smart to boot. Edwards for domestic stuff and Clark for the military and foreign affairs. Wish they'd get together.
And to shift subject: the story about soldiers being billed for lost equipment: that was Rumsfield's contribution to making the military more business-like. Make the guys pay for anything lost or destroyed as though they were responsible for the destruction. Then he outsourced the administrative billing and records to companies that have been notoriously slow and incompetent. My staff sgt. son-in-law has had to pay his training travel/lodging/meal costs on the family credit card and then wait months, once even over a year for reimbursement, running up interest charges and then getting amounts deducted from his pay even though the charges had been paid. It's a nightmare to keep track and has made most conscientious military families have to become CPA's to keep their accounts. Outsourcing is destroying military cohesiveness and family support activities and certainly not saving any tax dollars.
Gen Wes Clark...Supreme Allied Commander...........sound familiar........that ws Gen Eisenhower's title.......the mans got got the cred's to be Prez...google Wes Clark....good stuff.
What an elegant, clear guy Clark is. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. Here's one guy who wouldn't distort direct questions about Iraq, turned on the guy asking a reasonable question about pullout, and she told him (undisguised venom) that if he's not happy to vote for someone else? Now she can't wear ENOUGH pink, and COMPLETELY REVERSED her position on Iraq. Hillary's got a hardbitten agenda and she' s not telling us about it.
I trust Clark's instincts. He's an uncorrupted good guy.
crazylove @ 63:
Oops. **Starred missing portion**
Wes Clark has to run......this country needs him............more than ever.....if your reading this General.......your country is calling...please answer.
I just love this guy General Wes Clark and I hope that who ever makes president in 2008, will see fit to put this man into the dept of defense.
It is sad that he has chosen not to run for President (i think), but all is not wasted if he agrees to take on the defense position because we really need his good services in that area to get this mess cleaned up and if anyone can do it, I know Wes is the man.
I have followed him for several years now and I rate him at the very top of Honorable Generals and I hope he will give us just a little bit more of his time.
Yes, I heard you all calling for me to enter the race for the presidency and I'll address that issue shortly. Right now, however, I'm wondering if any of you can tell me how to find Paris Hilton. I hear she thinks I'm really hot. Do you think that was really her writing into this forum? Hope so. God Bless America!
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