C&L EXCLUSIVE: Live Chat with <I>No End In Sight</i> Filmmaker Charles Ferguson
By Nicole Belle Thursday Aug 02, 2007 12:52pm(guest blogged by Howie Klein)
For most Americans, following the tragic and utterly depressing ins and outs of the Bush Regime's mad rush to war in Iraq and their devastating and willful agenda of death and destruction both by lethal weapons and gross incompetence, can get very overwhelming... very fast. First time film maker Charles Ferguson has written, directed and produced a documentary so powerful and so precise that 102 breathtaking minutes will catch most people up with most of what's gone down in Iraq in the last 4 years. The movie tells the unembelished story of what the Bush Regime has wrought in the Middle East through the eyes and through the words of reliable on-the-scene actors like Colin Powell's Chief of Staff, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, ex-Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, Ambassador Barbara Bodine, Bush's first Iraq "viceroy," General Jay Garner, as well as through the experiences of Iraqi civilian leaders and American military personnel in Baghdad. It is showing in NYC and DC now, opens throughout the L.A. area today and all over the country a week from today.
No End in Sight doesn't attempt to draw conclusions about whether the tragic melding of arrogance and ignorance-- Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their cronies-- purposely created the chaos that has destroyed civil society in Iraq; the movie just documents that destruction in the most compelling way the medium of film can be used and leaves the conclusions to the viewer. The uniqueness of this film lies in Ferguson's ability to bring the viewer right into the space of the decision makers (if not The Decider). "The film," he explained, "is the first detailed dissection of the extraordinary way in which some of these decisions were made-- in secret, by a small number of men who had virtually no relevant experience and who either failed to consult with, or overruled, the people on the ground and the military."
Please take a look at a short segment of film chosen for C&L by Magnolia Films, read the rest of our report at Down With Tyranny or Mark Groubert's review of the film, and then help us ask Charles questions about his film and our national tragedy, here at Crooks and Liars at 11am, PT.
(Nicole: We want to thank Charles for joining us and Howie for hosting this live chat.
We ask that all commenters keep their posts on topic and respectful of our guest. For the sake of all who are participating, any posts not falling within those confines will be deleted without comment. Persistent comments outside those confines will result in banning.)
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Charles, welcome to Crooks and Liars. The film is brilliant and all of our readers who have seen it in NY and DC are raving about it. I saw it twice and I loved it too. Do you think that the screw ups from the Bush Regime merit serious judicial actions of any sort?
Hello and welcome, Charles. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today.
Has there been any push back from the Bush administration on this or any of your other films?
Welcome Charles, Dan Froomkin had a great take on your movie:
Thank you for your wonderful film.
Hello, Charles - haven't seen the film yet, but the snippets and trailers are very provocative. Thanks for your work.
I'm divided on the question of whether Bush Administration officials should be held legally accountable for their policy decisions. If they broke the law, yes; if they were merely - merely - arrogant, brutal, insensitive, rigid, and blind, then alas it is not clear that such traits are legally actionable. And, unfortunately, the American people did re-elect George W. Bush in 2004...
Aloha Charles... Welcome to C&L. Thanks so much for stopping in for a discussion. I can't wait to see your movie.
Logan Murphy @ 2:
No response whatsoever.
CHF
Nate @ 6:
Thank you!
I've been very gratified by audience response thusfar....
CHF
Charles H. Ferguson @ 5:
Don't those traits of incompetence fall under the political purview of impeachment, though? That is a "leadership check" move, no?
Good morning. We are often told that 'we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here'. It often occurs to me that, as we have seen, a relatively small number of persons to commit an act of terror. Is there any reason to believe that a small group of terrorists in Iraq couldn't simply disengage and commit an act of terror overseas, even with the American presence there? To me, the answer would appear to be 'no'.
Petro @ 9:
I actually don't know if there is a clear definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors"...
CHF
Charles,
Did you have any difficulty in talking to any administration officials during the filmaking? Did you ask to interview anyone who refused?
Nick @ 10:
This is in fact a major concern. A number of the foreign fighters in Iraq are believed to have European passports, enabling them to travel to Europe and even the U.S. with relative ease, and a number of experts on terrorism, such as Jessica Stern at Harvard, are in fact quite concerned that the growth of terrorism in Iraq could lead to terrorist acts domestically.
CHF
Hello Charles.. Are those of us in the midwest ( I am in Wisconsin) going to be able to see your film?
Simon @ 12:
We and I tried very hard to interview all senior Administration officials. The only ones who agreed were deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage and former State Dept chief of staff Larry Wilkerson. Colin Powell, Bremer, Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Tenet all refused to be interviewed despite repeated requests.
CHF
D. Nixx @ 14:
Yes. I can't give you an exact date yet, but by the end of August the film should be released fairly widely, and certainly in all major cities.
CHF
With the way our media slops down the propaganda from this administration, we need more movies like NEIS to document the atrocities...Can you believe Bremmer got a medal of freedom? Or, did he? I can't tell anymore...lol
I agree, last time I checked your site, there were no films playing near me (Pittsburgh, Pa). How widely availible will this film be?
Ian @ 18:
Again, I can't give a date yet, but I am certain that by the end of August the film will be released in Pittsburgh.
CHF
Good afternoon, Mr. Ferguson.
One question: Do you truly believe any of the presidential candidates, Republican or Democrat, that stand a chance at *winning* next year's scheduled election will do a darn thing to change the status quo - other than making things worse?
Orwell's Illegitimate Son @ 20:
I'm quite confident that no matter who is elected, the next President will behave very differently than George W. Bush. My greatest fear is that by then, it will be too late, and that Iraq will have spiraled out of control.
CHF
Mr. Ferguson,
An outstanding film! I saw it Wednesday night at the Film Forum in NYC to an almost-full 6pm screening (the 8pm screening was sold-out). I thought the film was very well edited, and the contribution of Nir Rosen was spot-on and certainly helps drive the film's point that the US has made the situation in Iraq worse, time and time again, no matter how good the intentions. The footage of everyday Iraqis, telling us in their own words what they want and how they feel, is priceless, and was acquired at great personal risk to you and your crew.
I was wondering if Col. Paul Hughes ever told you that he regretted joining the ORHA team or getting involved in Iraq reconstruction at all. He seems to be a rational Republican, who joined an irrational cause. Do you think that he was hoping to use ORHA as a stepping stone to a political career? Did he share with you what he wanted to get out of this messy experience?
I'm glad your film does not probe the personal motivations of the 6 primary Pentagon interviewees. But it has been on my mind ever since seeing the movie. Thanks!
If the United States pulled out of Iraq now, would the all or at least most of the displaced persons be able to return to Iraq, or would the instability endure to such an extent that they would have to stay away?
Also, it often occurs to me that if the leader of another country had engaged in a similar war, they might find themselves on trial at The Hague. Do you think there is any chance that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield etc might end up there?
If America is still embroiled in Iraq after the next election, do you think that there is a chance that there might at least be a brief respite from the violence, allowing the US to revisit it's options?
Hi Chris,
I can't wait to see your film. Thanks so much for committing your time and energy into this cause. I'm afraid though, that a majority of the people who go to see it are already believers, like most of us that follow this site.
Would you consider offering some sort of 'Free Admission for Republicans' promotion?
Thank you for your courageous and relevant presentation.
For those of us in areas where the film may not appear, perhaps you could set up a Pay-per-View site? I watched "Iraq for Sale" that way.
In re: the incompetency defense -- is it really possible? I find it hard to believe that there is this level of incompetence, just as I found it difficult to buy the incompetence defense for 9/11. Is it not more likely that the decisions made were deliberate and part of a larger strategy that is ongoing with the civil war? Was not the "insurgence" deliberately instigated?
If we could prove that, impeachment is the least of their concerns.
One of the things I loved about the film was how it showed the disconnect of the WH to our military learers in Iraq that tried to keep the lid on. You could see the outrage by them. Time after time they were never consulted. The line Bush uses that he always listens to his military leaders is false..since...you proved it so easily.
Dhalgren @ 22:
Paul Hughes was a career officer, and I'm quite certain that when he joined ORHA he did so in order to do his duty, and without any thought to politics. I don't think he regrets having joined ORHA, but as he says in the film, he sometimes regrets not having pushed more forcefully to reverse the decision to disband the Iraqi Army. I think he initially felt, as many did, that something good could come of the war if it was handled well.
CHF
John Amato @ 26:
Thank you. Yes, I agree; in fact the Bush Administration consistently disregarded and overruled senior military advice.
CHF
Could you compare the bungling of the Iraq War details to the bungling of aspects in explaining the 9/11 attacks? Are they comparable?
And what do you think the real reason is that we went to war with Iraq in the first place.
Thanks.
lorelei @ 25:
For better or worse, I have seen no evidence that this result was deliberate or planned, indeed I don't think the Administration enjoys being in this condition at all. It was, alas, a combination of incompetence, arrogance, and ideological blindness...
The film will be available on DVD in about four months...I don't know what if any pay per view plans the distributor has.
CHF
Joe @ 24:
I am trying quite hard to ensure that conservatives and members of the military see the film. Some military personnel have seen the film, and I've been extremely gratified that they liked it. I have also been gratified that most reviews note the absence of partisanship in the film.
CHF
Charles hi, Mark Groubert here. The NYTImes implied that you were not necessarily opposed to the war but more on how it was run. Is that generally true?
What are your hopes for the Iraqi government in it's present form?
What are Iraqi's opinions about their own government?
Does support fall along sectarian lines? And if so, doesn't that indicate the government cannot suceed?
Mark Groubert @ 32:
I would put it differently. I was sympathetic to the idea of using military force to remove Saddam - partially on regional stability / WMD grounds, partially on humanitarian grounds, since he was being contained only by a sanctions regime that was pushing the Iraqi people into poverty and even starvation. But even before the war started, I was very disturbed at how the Bush Administration was going about it - the arrogance, the lack of international and UN support, the secrecy. And then of course as I began to learn about how they handled - or didn't handle - the occupation, I was horrified.
CHF
Charles, someone from Magnolia told me you showed the film in DC to a bunch of legislators. Did you get any comments from any congressmemembers, of either party, you can share with us?
Charles H. Ferguson @ 27:
Charles H. Ferguson @ 30:
I realize you are hear today more as a documentarian than an analyst, but I find these two observations interesting. Do you have any thoughts of what a "good outcome" could have possibly been? The only thing that comes to my mind is the "success" of securing another country's natural resources for strategic reasons. The "bring democracy" argument showed up belatedly...
I haven't seen any MSM coverage of your film. Has the corporate media basically shut you out?
Simon @ 33:
I don't think I have spoken to a single Iraqi who has anything good to say about the present Iraqi government. An increasing number of Iraqis hope for a military coup, in fact, and many want martial law. The present government is viewed as sectarian, incompetent, paralyzed, and corrupt, and from what I can see, that's true.
CHF
Is there a general opinion from these experts as to what the U.S. should do now?
Should we withdraw?
thank you
Paul @ 37:
Well, we certainly have received extremely good reviews in the NY Times, TIME, Newsweek, & the LA Times...but there hasn't been much network television coverage...
CHF
Mike @ 39:
Most people who study Iraq seem to feel, and fear, that if we withdraw completely, there will be a bloodbath and/or a regional war involving Iran and Saudi Arabia. We can only hope that a new Administration will be able to use negotiation and diplomacy to prevent that, while reducing U.S. forces, whose current levels are unsustainable for both military and political reasons.
CHF
Do you have an opinion as to the "lack of any military service" by persons such as
bush-lite, Wolfo, cheney, rummy, et.al in the "team" urging invasion in Iraq, that
they just did not comprehend or understand that planning of a war involves more
than just Shock and Awe?
Charles, I am looking forward to seeing your film if and when it is shown in my area. I have a very hard time believing George Bush does not care for the lives lost in Iraq, as he is so often portrayed. I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on this.
"...their devastating and willful agenda of death and destruction both by lethal weapons and gross incompetence..."
The word is NEGLIGENCE, willful criminal negligence.
Incompetence presumes an intention to be competent. But Crony Capitalism is not competence -- it is RAPE. It is willful negligence, the total lack of concern for duty.
• This is why Boy Wonder has more hours of vacation time than any president in U.S. history. Not because he is incompetent -- HE DOESN'T GIVE A FLYING FK.
*Please make a note of it.*
Doggiebobo @ 42:
I believe that their lack of experience played a strong role. They lacked military and combat experience; they also lacked experience with the Arab world, with post-conflict reconstruction and occupations, and with Islam. The combination of their arrogance and their inexperience was, alas, devastating.
CHF
Paul in LA @ 44:
Unfortunately, I agree that there is indeed an element of sheer negligence in this. In fact, Larry Diamond, in his excellent book Squandered Victory, quotes the legal definition of criminal negligence in assessing the Administration's behavior.
CHF
I foresee another 2 years of 'I don't recalls' These guys have been screwing America for the last 3 decades...Its time for new leadership. Leadership not from Yale.
dennis @ 43:
I think that he cares - at least now. I think that it is possible that before the war he did not understand what war could be like. But the fact that he cares does not, unfortunately, mean that he will do the right thing. I also fear that he - and the Administration generally - may not care as much for Iraqi lives as for American lives. 3,600 Americans have been killed; the number of Iraqi deaths is unknown, but could easily be a quarter of a million or more.
CHF
newssophisticate @ 47:
Yale certainly doesn't seem to have done well in this war!
And yes, I think that we will hear "I can't recall" or "They did it, not me" quite a lot over the next several decades.
CHF
Charles H. Ferguson @ 45:
I totally concur. IF bush and others on his team would have done some historical
studying and reading w/respect to the vastly distinct and different religious groups
occupying that part of the World(assuming they can read something beyond "Pop Up
Books"), they would have used much better judgement prior to initiating and implementing
such a War in that region. No reply necessary..
What's your next film going to be about?
John Amato @ 51:
I'm not sure yet. Ideally, I would like to alternate between documentaries and feature films. We will see if the film industry allows me to do that...I hope so...
CHF
I am very much looking foward to viewing your film when it is distributed in my local.
The "reviews" I have read are very favorable. Maybe, after people watch, they can
reach a conclusion to bush's quoted statement from recent past; being:
"I hope we can get to the bottom of the answer."...
Doggiebobo @ 53:
Well said!
They are a very quotable group, particularly in the department of unintentional and often very black humor. Rumsfeld's "I don't do quagmires" is perhaps my favorite, in a slightly twisted way...
CHF
Charles, this may sound like a sarcastic question, or a rhetorical question, but have you invited any of the right wing pundits to view your film; e.g., O'Reilly, Hannity, Carlson, Coulter, et cetera? Have any accepted? If so, did they offer their opinions; or, if they declined, did they state their reasons for doing so?
Thank you for NEIS. I am absolutely looking forward to seeing this movie.
P.S. I disagree vehemently that bush was elected in 2004. Or in 2000, for that matter.
Straight Shooter @ 55:
That is a very interesting question. The answer to date is no, but I should fix that. We ARE sending copies of the film to all senior Administration officials, and to members of Congress of both parties. No response yet from the Administration. But I would be interested in the reaction of conservative or neoconservative commentators.
CHF
Charles, since you mention feature films, have you heard much about the film coming out "In the Valley of Elah"? It looks like a powerful feature film that uses actual footage from the Fallujah siege and raid. Here is a link to the trailer for it: In the Valley of Elah
It looks pretty powerful.
Thank you all for your questions and comments. I am very grateful for your interest in the film and in events in Iraq...
Charles Ferguson
Charles, thanks for spending some time with us today..A great film....
Thanks for coming by Charles-- and for making that great film. Stop by any time. And good luck today. I know the film opens all over L.A., and in Orange County and Pasadena.
[...] Director Chatting Online Right Now Charles Ferguson who directed No End In Sight is currently chatting over at Crooks and Liars. the film was good and he seems like he knows a lot about film making and the whole situation in Iraq. Check it out: Crooks and Liars
Mr. Ferguson:
I'm sure in your discussions with security consultants in D.C., you've heard the same that I have from one of them: that if Gore had been president in 2001, 9/11 would probably have been averted. Do you have any idea why this informed opinion is not part of our national dialogue?
Thank you to C&L and Mr. Ferguson for a sobering reflection of the reality in Iraq.
John Amato @ 59:
And Thank You John for making it possible...
Can't wait to see the film!
How Many Way Have George Bush Screwed Up The Iraqi War?
He's has done it all. In the beginning there was the run up to 9/11. Beginning in 1998, the US had warnings Al Qaeda was planning to attack our country. In slow motion, nothing was done as the planes flew into the twin towers killing 3000 innocent US civilians. Bush sat in a class room and would not hurry is reading of "My Pet Goat." At this moment, the conspiracies theories were also developed. They were many conspiracy theories for which this post would not do justice hence Wikipedia.
After 9/11, Bush lead the charge to bring those responsible for this crime to death. In short order our forces went to Afghanistan, dismissed and dismantled the Taliban, put Al Qaeda on the run, and even cornered Ben Ladin in the mountains in Afghanistan. Bush was on top of the world, and it appeared nothing could go wrong: It did.
Bush claimed Saddam was a threat to Americans, so he demanded the Iraqi leader give up his WMDs or face the wrath of the great justice machine of America. Guess what, there were no WMDs but Bush decided to continue killing Iraqis while he begun occupying this nation. He had the leader of Iraq murdered and hung like a dog as he claimed the world was better for it. Bush was not aware his murder rate of innocent Iraqis would outweigh the very man he called "The Butcher Of Baghdad."
Five years later, we are still bogged down in Iraq and our soldiers are being picked off like ducks in a shooting gallery. Bush has exposed his personal oil interest as Chaney held secret meetings with oil giants who have made claims to half of Iraq's oil revenue.
Iraq is a mess and made that way because of the aspirations of one man: George Bush. We cannot let this man go any further. The time to act is now. Impeach Bush.
Joseph
# 5 he says; "And, unfortunately, the American people did re-elect George W. Bush in 2004…"
No they did not re-elect bush in 04. He should brush up on "election fraud" and make a movie about that.
I don't buy the " incompetence defense" either. Everything was planned many years ago and the only thing that slowed their plan (PNAC)is Democrats getting a slim margin in the House in 06.
I'm looking forward to seeing the movie though.
and here's the reason that bush was not really elected in 2004
CA Source Code Report: Diebold Voting Machines Can Be Hacked With Virus by Single Person, Affecting Entire Election
REPORT FINDS PAPER TRAILS NOT SUFFICIENT TO SAFEGUARD A DIEBOLD ELECTION!!!
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4909#comments
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135461-c,onlinesecurity/article.html
[...] today, Crooks and Liars held a live-in-comments chat with the filmmaker, Charles Ferguson. And tho it doesn’t fit with my schedule, Ferguson will [...]
Brilliant film. I belive the war in the Middle East is not meant to be won, only sustained. The incompetence of the Bush administration is too complete to be accidental.
If this is such a great, must see film, how come it is not in wider release?
Who uploaded this video? I have the volume turned all the way up and it's still too quiet to make out what they're saying. Struggling to hear gives me a headache so I gave up.
[It's a YouTube video, and Magnolia Pictures uploaded it to them. Did you check the volume on the YouTube page? Sitemonitor]
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