Another Retired General Blasts Bush Administration Handling Of Iraq
McClatchy Via Yahoo:
Volney Warner thinks big. A retired Army four-star general who helped craft counterinsurgency doctrine during the Vietnam War, he's made a career out of thinking about how U.S. military strategy should advance America's global interests.
How does domestic politics shape military tactics? How and why did U.S. civilian and military leaders fail in Vietnam and Iraq ? What has Iraq taught the U.S. military about unconventional war?
A highly regarded expert on counterinsurgency who enjoys a reputation among his peers as a sharp thinker who pulls no punches, Warner asks why the U.S. military— with all its tradition, training, equipment and support— has failed to learn the lessons of Vietnam and apply them to Iraq . He gave his answers in a series of interviews with a McClatchy Newspapers reporter.
"If the strategy is wrong and the policy is wrong, you can't blame the people implementing it. They are trying to implement a political strategy that won't work. It's very difficult to turn the train around," said Warner, who at 81 heads a defense consulting firm in McLean, VA. . "I have to believe that military leaders in positions of trust and confidence may have made stupid decisions (in the course of fighting an insurgency), but never with malice aforethought towards the country that spawned them and certainly not with intent to destroy the lives of those soldiers who believed in them, trusted their decisions and carried out their orders to their deaths." Read more...
So what??? Just another voice that Chimpy and his crew will ignore.
The question is: Is there a retired general who praises this war's handling?
Seriously, is there? I'm asking.
How many does that make now? 8? 10? 20? Does it matter? Will it make a difference? Bush and his cronies will just put another "yes" general in his place and the war will go on and on and on and on.
Where were all these friggen Generals BEFORE Bush invaded Iraq?
Iraq is a great success. If Bush didn't love it with all his heart, he'd be changing tactics.
Iraq is working out exactly as the civilian planners envisioned. They did learn from Vietnam and apply those lessons. That is the point.
What a wonderful and sad article. Heartfelt sympathy for his granddaughter.
Since we cannot win this militarily, we need to get out.
And rasta? What woul you have us do?
Weaseldog @ 5:
BINGO. And weaseldog wins the prize for today.
We the undersigned support our Dear Leader's war efforts against the GayIslamofascistDemocratLiberals.
-General Mills, Captain Crunch, Private Parts.
Doesnt this ...
Volney Warner thinks big. A retired Army four-star general who helped craft counterinsurgency doctrine during the Vietnam War, he’s made a career out of thinking about how U.S. military strategy should advance America’s global interests.
... say it all?
U.S. military strategy should advance America's global interests ... this is generally considered by the international community as CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR.
This demonstrates the underlying problem IS NOT BUSH, it is the US as a culture of death, a subject that is rarely mentioned. Even the democrats (Kucinich excluded) love their killing ...
The first lesson from vietnam is don't fu*king invade another country that is not a threat to the US.
Second lesson, not from nam but common sense, don't allow an idiot to become the commander in chief.
"My view of Iraq ," he said, "is shaped by the loss of my granddaughter."
that hit me like a ton of bricks
[deleted - there are plenty of other sites you can post that theory on.]
pissed off patricia @ 10:
Oh I don't know. There was certainly a lesson learned from allowing NIXON to become president based on the nation's desperate desire to end the Vietnam War.
This is EXACTLY why we need to keep a very close eye on Hillary Clinton. She is simply not anti-war enough.
Toss that around in your gen-x minds for awhile.
Typical cheese-eating surrender monkey...
That would be the 12th general who has spoken out against Bush?
http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?s=Generals&SubmitButtom=Search
Generals, Soldiers, Veterans and the National Guard may need to surround the White House to make their point and save our Country.
Soon.
I don't have a gen-x mind. Will a boomer mind work? 8)
pissed off patricia @ 16:
Then you should know.
Another defeatist ....
McCain and Bush know best.
The Smiths Go To Washington @ 15:
One can only hope.
Hillary will refuse to 'lose' the war. So it will go on at least four more years if she is President.
I think we should all understand that Hillary is NOT Bill Clinton and if you can read between the lines, this fact is in Every Word that Bill Clinton says.
Thank you Volney Warner, for another sane voice against the insanity of shit-for-brains lack of moral, ethical and rational decisions. We all know that when september's analysis comes in from the fuckhead patreus, we will see just one more political pawn in this administration.
very sad, that so many other generals that were in the field in iraq for this war have been ignored and forced out of service, because shit-for-brains can't make the right decisions.
if anything in America is the cause of this fiasco and that we are all going to hell,
it's the decider, bush-shit-for-brains.
Just for the record, Salmineo, I am not a Hillary fan. I was not a Nixon fan. I am a fan of peace and honesty.
I don't see how president from either party will want to be stained with the label of 'loser', when it comes to the war.
I think that only impeachment can end the war. Maybe not impeachment of Bush, but maybe the next president or one after that.... The President that comes after impeachment will be able to change course and blame everything on previous administrations.
We're going to be in Iraq for years to come.
The Generals know.
Bush is a national security risk and disaster - and has placed our country and soldiers in harms way.
He has created chaos across the world based on Greed
and FOR CORPORATIONS. That unlike some of the Bush family Black Ops - this one is wide open in the light of day.
Remmbering the Gulf of Tonkin at the end of July 1967
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident
and.... according to eyewitness on the USS Forrestal...
http://www.insider-magazine.com/McCainStory.htm
People, people...
You're all talking about the "I" word.
Still August. Not September. Mustn't talk about the "I" word until September.
So sayeth CENTCOM!
Meanwhile, according to Brookings Institute "scholars" ("liberals", no less) things are going "swimmingly" (hat tip, Mann Coulter):
The U.S. military also announced the deaths of nine American soldiers, including four killed in an explosion Monday in volatile Diyala province, where U.S. forces are engaged in a major offensive against Sunni insurgents. The blast injured 12 other U.S. soldiers, the military said in a statement.
One soldier was killed by a sophisticated roadside bomb in west Baghdad on Monday, and another was killed during combat in eastern Baghdad on Sunday, the military said. Three soldiers were killed Saturday when a roadside bomb struck their convoy south of Baghdad, the military announced Tuesday.
In Qabak, 15 miles north of Tall Afar, police officials said the suicide bomber drove an explosives-laden truck carrying ice blocks into the village center and detonated it near a crowd that included women and children.
Hours later, another suicide truck bomb targeted an Iraqi army patrol in the northern city of Mosul, wounding 12 soldiers, Maj. Khursheed Ahmad said.
South of Baghdad, a roadside bomb exploded in a bus station, killing 8 people and wounding 10, police said.
In Baqubah, about 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi security forces found 60 unidentified bodies in a mass grave. Most had been shot and handcuffed, and they showed signs of torture, police said. In Baghdad, police found ten corpses Monday.
WaPo 8/6/07
i didn't even know i was general material. so a general wonders why the military failed to apply any lessons learned about viet nam to iraq (and afganistan, the forgotten war). i've been wondering why myself for the longest time.
if you don't follow lessons learned you kinda didn't learn the lesson eh?
i think the biggest lesson not learned was not how to fight a guerilla war but to not interfere where you have no business in the first place.
Mike @ 2:
I'm thinking General Dreedle and General Peckem support this war, but Yossarian is probably against it!
Weaseldog @ 20:
Assuming there will be a next president ... all the power these thugs have used - in theory at least - will continue as long as the US is at 'war'. Do you honestly think anyone will end any war and risk losing all that power?
I will say this as a comment. If there is a next president, and that president doesnt anything even remotely like what Bush has done from the start of his administration, the congressional republicans will declare a state of emergency and begin impeachment proceedings. Hypocrisy? No, Zero Sum Social Darwinists (ZSSD's - my acronym) who will do anything for the 'win'. Anything.
You can find out more about the granddaughter here:
www.usma.edu/publicaffairs/PV/050826/walker.htm
I remember the Vietnam "era" slang for getting killed in action...
"Wasted".
She got wasted.
The Army is becoming a victim of its own culture, the surest way for an aspiring leader to wreck his career is to admit mistakes. The Army ran light 11b brigades through JRTC for over a decade and apparently learned nothing from all those Light Intensity Conflict wargames, and now it is reaping what it has sown. So reap it Petraeus, I bet you're already eyeballing whatever spoils the rethug corporate world will toss your way when its time for you to pull a Tommy Franks (I hear Shinseki actually sleeps at night well tho).
Maybe the General has to believe "...that military leaders in positions of trust and confidence may have made stupid decisions (in the course of fighting an insurgency), but never with malice aforethought towards the country that spawned them and certainly not with intent to destroy the lives of those soldiers who believed in them, trusted their decisions and carried out their orders to their deaths.”
But, the evidence is against that interpetation.
what will Petraus do to keep his ambition alive?
in the meantime only retired Gens will speak up ..
but they're retired sooo , they do know anything
GSD @ 8:
You forgot about Major Malfunction
Kudos to the General for stepping forward.
Salmineo @ 13:
Well....
I don't' need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.....
Big fucking deal. When one of the big tough military pussies has balls enough to say this crap when in command, I'll be impressed. Until then, quite honestly...STFU and don't tell us what we already know.
Salmineo @ 19:
One can only hope for a military coup? History shows these things don't usually go too well for the people. No need to go to extremes, because Bush will be gone soon enough, along with most of the problems he's caused.
[Deleted. You have ignored our requests that you limit blogwhoring to open threads and continued your spam loving ways. Good bye]
The White House's ignorant mouthpiece, Tony Snow, should be getting his marching orders, by Rove, to start discrediting, smearing and lying about this four star General too.
Mike @ 2:
Jack Keane - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Keane and Richard Meyers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Meyers
Bur both were on active duty during the invasion and both were on board for the invasion from the start
The 4-star is clearly a moonbat!!11!
Why do generals hate the troops so much?
What is their to learn from the past in a faith based go with your gut reality?
Salmineo @ 4:
I think maybe they were reserving judgment. Look, I opposed the war from day 1, but some people had to see the results to come around. It isn't their fault.
Hillary being booed!??! I love the woman, but by all rights, she should have been booed.
I mean, come on, Hillary, you are a great gal, just admit you f***ed up with your AUMF vote for Bush and vow to get out of the Iraq mess. Bush royally screwed up, and you only support the screwup by not admitting your mistake and moving on.
Headline for all the Democrat supporters: You may flame me for saying this, but I have to admit it now: GWB is a smart guy when it comes to this war. Why? Because if the Democrats fail to get a pullout resolution when Petraeus makes his report, it will no longer be the GOP's war....the DEMOCRATS WILL OWN IT. Why? Since they are in control of Congress (nominally), all GWB has to do is scare the yellow backed Democrats to continue to roll over for him by scaring them politically ("not supporting the troops" BS he spews) and by 2008, most Americans will assume (since Congress controls the purse strings) that the Democrats want to stay in Iraq, and by 2009, any Democratic President will FULLY OWN THE WAR, and GWB will get a pass by the American public, since Americans are too stupid to have an attention span longer than the last episode of "the Simple Life."
Calling it right now. You heard it here first. (Don't crib it from me in the future, either!! :) )
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