Bush War Czar Considering Military Draft
AP Via The Huffington Post:
Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday.
"I think it makes sense to certainly consider it," Army Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute said in an interview with National Public Radio's "All Things Considered."
"And I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table. But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another," Lute added in his first interview since he was confirmed by the Senate in June.
President Nixon abolished the draft in 1973. Restoring it, Lute said, would be a "major policy shift" and Bush has made it clear that he doesn't think it's necessary. Read more...
(Nicole:) IraqSummer has created a new ad in response. Your support will help spread the message.
I suspect you need to join the republican party to get deferments?
EDWARDS!
I dare them.
All Americans should be drafted. Maybe then they will excercise their democratic (ha) right to vote, and vote for somebody worth electing, instead of these assclowns we've had for the last 40 years or so. We can slam Bush all day and night, but the fact is, one helluva lot of stupid Americans voted for the moron.
This will not happen while dumya still is pResident. But, it will probably fall on the next president to institute a draft, due to dumya having destroyed the world's greatest military. Heckuva job, dumya!
Just curious, IF the draft was re-institued(which is unlikey), but IF it were, would
those drafted get a $20,000.00 sign up bonus if they report within 30 days...as I
on T.V. last night is the case with our "voluntary" military???
NChomsky @ 4:
Yep, they all thought he would sit down and have a beer with them. They had better chances to win the lottery.
Let them.
That will ensure the GOP remains the minority party for at least 40 years.
Doggiebobo @ 6:
Surely, you jest.
Diogenes @ 9:
Nope, it is a "new" recruitment tool and it was on either MSNBC or CNN last night.
Showing a young man, with family, who had done so in order to get the money.
Doggiebobo @ 6:
I quote the movie Private Benjamin: See, I did join the army, but I joined a *different* army. I joined the one with the condos and the private rooms.
Hello Draft, meet Mad Mom.
I will definitely kick anyone's ass up betwixt their shoulderblades if my children are threatened by some such insanity called "the draft." One time I smashed a Sammy Adams long-neck over the head of a local drug dealer that was attempting to strangle my next-door neighbor, so I think I can rise to the occasion when necessary.
(He got 5 stitches and never showed his face on my block again, btw.)
Doggiebobo @ 10:
I know the volunteers get the sign-up bonus. I was referring to your remark about the draft. Believe me, there will not be any bonuses if they institute a draft. The sign-up bonus is a bribe. If they ever get the draft back, they won't need any bribes.
If they start drafting Americans to die for the oil consortiums that will be the end of the Republican Party. It can't come soon enough in my opinion.
Diogenes @ 13:
I understand...my initial commentary was meant to be sarcasam...
If the Army will take people up to the age of 40, I bet the draft will too
Diogenes @ 7:
Yes, as some stupid Nascar driver said, "I'm not a policy guy; I just look in Bush's eyes and I can tell he's an honest man." A fellow Southerner, of course.
Verdillac @ 16:
Not if you are a Repig, with influcence/money...they get an automatic deferrment.
There is no price Big Oil isn't willing for YOU to pay to keep the Middle East safe for Privatization.
I for one would welcome the reinstatement of the draft. As a 24 year old male, I would have a pretty high chance of being drafted and I think it would be a galvanizing factor for the country to wake up to the realities of war and this administration. For a just and truly defensive war I would consider serving, but if I were drafted for this debacle I would certainly not show up (hopefully with many others who share my sentiments) and force the govt to imprison me. Its one of the best ways to send the message of "F you!" in my opinion.
This would be political suicide and guarantee the troops came right home.
Get all them keyboard kommandos scared of actually having to fight the battles and you will see riots in the streets.
I say, "bring it on!"
kaT @ 17:
From Tennessee, who went to the Creation Museum in that State in order to see Noah's
Ark that was used in saving mankind and the dianosures who co-existed only 6000 years
ago...
This is a smokscreen: The more you say "draft," the less you focus on "Bush," "war crime" and "accountability". We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Involuntary servitude in 2008, and a return to slavery in 2018.
kaT @ 14:
absolutely. It would also abruptly end this disaster and the impending ones lined up behind it. that was conyers plan earlier.
Norse @ 1:
Of course.
Honestly though - I'm all for a draft. I'm 23, will be 24, and in good enough health I could go. I'm also out of college, so if there were a college deferment program I wouldn't be eligible for that either.
Nevertheless, I think a conscription military is healthier for a nation as a whole. For one, everyone has a sense of duty because we all have to work to defend our country.
Two - and I think the biggest thing, is that people get MUCH more active in opposing things when their own asses are on the line.
Granted, I doubt the Bush administration will re-institute a draft - after all, it might get hapless right wingers killed, then who'd vote Republican?!
I think this is a great idea. A drafted army is closer to the citizenry than the gvt & less likely to suppress or use arms against us. It also will give alot more people training in using firearms & hand to hand combat, which may be handy if the gvt finally needs to be overthrown.
Look at the volunteers in the USAF, they are by and large xtain fundies who seem more bent on creating Armageddon than defending the constitution.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/apr2005/acad-a30.shtml
http://www.google.com/search?q=christians+USAF&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rl...
I am pretty much a lefty, but a well armed citizens militia seems more valuable now than ever.
Nothing says we love our freedoms in America more than the involuntary servitude of poor people.
Great News! Now Bush can add to the ongoing hostage crisis, which Madame Speaker sees no reason to stop, until the word Republican will be such that moms all over America will wash out their children's mouths with soap should the militaristic lil' rugrats utter same.
Oh, hallelujah...his truth keeps killing thousands as we bring Christ, Halliburton and 'Democracy' to The MeatGrinder; not necessarily in that order.
Say, can we get some Democrats with actual spines into Congress and indict some of these criminals. Paraguay does have an extradition with us do they not?
Let me tell you something.
As long as president coookoobananas is president, it will be a long day in hell before I will be drafted. I'd rather go to jail, or I will move to Canada.
I'm not going to go to A Iraq to die for nothing. This "we are fighting them over there, so we don't fight them over here" defense is just bullshit.
Actually, Nixon only agreed to end the draft after a five month, one-man filibuster by a younger Senator Mike Gravel. How is it Nixon ends up being the hero here?
The reason we need a draft is we're in a Quagmire. Here is a Dick Cheney Video from 1994 on YouTube that says "invading Baghdad would create a quagmire." Check this out:
Dick Cheney in 1994 - Invading Iraq Would be Quagmire
I say good, as longas Babs and Jenna have draft numbers 1 &2. Mitt Romney's sons should get at least three.
fuck off, i aint going to any war.
kablooie @ 12:
exactly
thebewilderness @ 28:
"Nothing ignores
says we loveour freedoms in America more than theinvoluntary leadershipservitudeof stupidpoorpeople."Verdillac @ 16:
name your wager
A.Citizen @ 29:
From what I have found, we do have an extradition treaty with Paraguay, BUT "Political Crimes" are exempt.
I called & emailed dam near every dem in the house & senate about this last week.
This is an issue that needs a lot of lobbying. It was completely ignored by US media.
For those wondering what Paraguay has to do anything: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1928928,00.html
It looks like bushco is gonna beat feat to avoid a war crimes trial.
Wow! The bedwetting, chickenshit, Rethugs. must be ready to run for the borders or purposely maiming themselves to get out of the draft.
matt greer @ 35:
Impressive. Discussing the benefits of violence? Thought that was the original problem: Using non-sense and violence rather than reason.
Bush would rather shred and destroy our Military then bring back a politically suicidal draft.
And right now he's up in Maine and then down to the ranch to twiddle around for the next month while Americans die giving the Bush Clan and their Buddies a free ride on their backs.
Verdillac @ 16:
You are right about that. There is already legislation written re: a draft that included both male and females up to the age of 42.
I think every high school student should do a full year of military trainning after high school and if we go to war should be called up to fight. "universal service"
BigPicture @ 23:
yep, wars initiated by people like "bush" who take no "accountability" for our continued "war crimes"
they should bring back the draft and pass a law that makes it a fellony for a republican to have sex without a condom on ,barring that casteration works better!
Hey guys - looking for help. A friend of mine is a high school teacher in N.C. and is wondering how he can get names and contact info for wounded war veterans. He's doing a segment on Homer's Odyssey and wants to highlight the experience of coming home from war respresented in the story. He says he's looked at the Walter Reed Web site, but seems to only be able to find anonymous statements from soldiers. Anyone have any ideas?
All the young repugnacans will claim, believably, that they are gay.
The key question remains: Will it be pilsner or lager?
38 minutes ago
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Police manned checkpoints and set up radiological monitoring equipment in Manhattan and the city's other boroughs over the weekend in response to unverified threats by al Qaeda on the Internet of dirty bomb attacks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070811/us_nm/security_newyork_dc_4;_ylt=Ajz...
What happened to the days when our intelligence was perfectly capable of stopping these plots without even a peep in the Big Media to disrupt the day to day normal rhythm of life?
BigPicture @ 40:
Well, if you would like to read into this post you may have noted that I support the notion that people will actually get up and do something about this situation. Surely you are not ignorant enough to assume I think the next thing someone ought to do is go out and hit the bueracrat that threatens to fill out paperwork, must be facetious. As for the lady whos post I commented on, if she had to give someone 5 stitches to save somebody elses life, I say bully for stitches.
Impressive! Discussing the benefits of violence! no, smartass, frustrated and pissed off, and glad to see a ray of hope that says we are willing to get off our ass and do something!
Jewel @ 42:
I've never been so happy to be in my mid-forties!
Lets see, we have two failed occupations, cheney war mongering with Iran, the Dems with the real enemy in Pakistan.
The troops are over deployed.
It will me interesting to see if w throws the war czar under the bus, if not, then you know it is coming.
you guys. not sure if youve seen it, but there's an interview with cheney from 1994, where he sayd that invading iraq would result in a "quagmire":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
OH YEAH...it's coming.Before the Preznit leaves office(if we can't throw him out)there will be a draft re-instated.As sure as the sun will rise.
Hey, drafting people is a fantastic idea if you ask me. Do I want to go? HELL no, and I'd go to prison first. Which is exactly why we should do it.
Let's just see how many people are in favor of the Iraq war once they or their kids may end up going over there themselves. Suddenly "surge" starts sounding a lot more like "my kids."
It would be interesting, really--we now live in an era where the average person can see examples of just how hideous and ugly war is BEFORE going themselves. Given that, how many wars would the US get involved in if there was a draft?
Really, I'm curious. Would we continue to throw troops at anything that looks interesting with enough people willing to go along and the "smart" ones all wrangling a deferment, or would (like I hope) it lead to a totally different sort of foreign policy?
You can sure as HELL bet at least body armor would end up a lot higher on the shopping list.
How do the pro-draft people reconcile forcing people to involuntarily serve in the military with the supposed right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"??? Why should anyone allow themselves to become a mere pawn in politicians' egomaniacal games? Screw the "sense of duty" and all the other noble BS being in the military is supposed to inculcate. You can develop those "virtues" in other, more useful, ways. Soldiers are just supposed to be mindless robots, ready to torture and kill without remorse when told to.
All future wars have to have a draft and be paid for up-front with higher taxes. That should be law so that before there are any more Iraq debacles, the people know what is coming and what will be expected of them. If the war is just and necessary, then there will not be any problem.
Isn't the idea of an all-volunteer army very undemocratic? What's the real difference between and all-volunteer army and a private mercenary army? Both are volunteers. It seems like since we all vote equally, all get the same rights regardless of income that so too should we all share the same burden to fight the wars.
L.A. Confidential @ 49:
back in the summer of '93, my college roommate and i were listening to the local news radio when they announced that they had caught a terrorist cell with plans to bomb the lincoln tunnel, the brooklyn bridge and other major roadways. this was about 6 months after the twin towers had been bombed, and the *police* had captured actual people with actual plans to do actual bad things. and that was the first anyone had heard of it. wasn't a big deal and nothing happened in the media or on the streets that had any effect on our daily lives. no one set up check points. no one searched peoples bags. no one put up posters asking us to spy on each other. and there were no military guards walking around with machine guns. but that was life under clinton... even with ghouliani as mayor, none of that crap was allowed.
god, i miss the way my city used to be. but i fear the rest of the country too much to leave.
matt greer @ 35:
Im with you, madmom. I have two daughters, 35 and 37 and if they get drafted, I personally will smuggle them out of this country! I didnt go the the trouble of having and raising children to let them be fodder for chimpy and the evil one's FUCKING OIL WAR!!
matt greer @ 35:
Im with you, madmom. I have two daughters, 35 and 37 and if they get drafted, I personally will smuggle them out of this country! I didnt go the the trouble of having and raising children to let them be fodder for chimpy and the evil one's FUCKING OIL WAR!!
oops, sorry for the double post. I hit the button twice in error. Although my sentiments do bear repeating. lol
I hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!!
Let's see, there have been vague rumors for some time of Hallliburton building some sort of containment camps out in the Nevada desert. Bush quietly signed an executive order back in July making it a crime to undermine the war effort. Now they're mumbling about a draft. Ya think people are going to be able to just go out and publicly burn their draft cards this time? Or make an easy run to Canada with all the roads watched? No, this time if you resist doing your patriotic duty I fear there will be major consequences. We can't have the terrorists winning now, can we? Can we?
JJohnson @ 26:
Yep. Another 50,000 dead before we learn to vote. Get off your asses and we won't have to go through this again.
Draft College Republicans First
Marc @ 55:
I see your point and it's a good one.But that won't stop thousands of people 's getting sent to some other far away place to do the govt's bidding.the draft is,was and will be wrong.Just ask the families of the 58,000 who died in VietnamGranted...that not all were drafted..but you get the picture.If there is a draft....which country is next?
the troops being burned out is the only thing keeping boosh out of Iran
Remember their are more than 2million young men in prison right now...
mostly for BS......................................
Who says we have a voluntary Armed Forces? If they offer you a bonus, then you have to join. Is that voluntary, when there is no other job in town? When there are no other options? We are so full of it!
They put a microphone in front of soldier's face, and he express how happy he is to defend America and spred liberty, in the meantime his pants are all wet. Bush talks about these patriotics American defending America and spreading freedom, while they all curse him out back in Iraq. This is a war full of contradictions, hipocrisy, lies and venom.
Now, like if the Treasury is not already squandered, the Army is going to redouble its recruiting efforts by doubling the staff and giving all kind of bonuses, 40.000 and up to new enlistees Remember, every dead soldier, his family gets $400.000 (I hope not taxable).
Let's just print more money. What a fuck!
Mitt Romney's five kids had the opportunity to "choose" their careers rather than joining the war. Well, thank God "all" our American kids have that opportunity.
Install the draft. That's the only way the war will end. When the rich Republicans kids star dying, and their parents endure the pain we have gone through the las four years, then they will find the fastest way to pull the troops out of Iraq.
adnhor @ 56:
Spread a little patriotism on top, and the shit sandwich smells like "how can we get young people to pay back for all the freedoms they enjoy, because they live in this free country, and should feel the need to .............
the war on the middle class is taking its toll for one. don't forget that the antiwar movement of the sixties picked up greatly after the middle class was subject to the draft. If these guys do decide to issue the draft, it'll be the poor and minorities who get called up first...
the reservists did volunteer...along with the NG....but they had no idea that they'd be called to active duty and forced to do 3-4 possibly more tours of duty in a combat zone.Last time that happened was in WW2...and even then they got more down time.
Now, I'm really curious about the following. If the draft is introduced, will salaries remain the same for the Armed Forces?
At this point in time, at least in the Army, once you made SGT, your salary jumps to $4000 a month> If you are overseas and married, with COLa (cost of living allowance), housing and all kind of good benefits.
SSG and above, salaries go up to $5000 a month. CSM $8000.
Of course, if you are an officer! You are in heaven. $9000 a month plus COLA, plus $20.000 to pay for the rent.
If you are physician, all that money above plus a $15.000 bonus every 6 months. Yes, it's a money orgy going on in the Armed Forces, courtesy of us the tax payer!
I left a post in another thread about the possibility of the draft re instatement due to an article I read at Prisonplanet.com and a couple of other alternate news sites and was virtually villified and called a fear mongerer.
It's highly likely that Bush and Cartel will try to nudge all available bodies toward the National Service first, but if that does not get the warm bodies in the killing machine, then it's extremely likely that they will reinstate the draft. As I said in my other post, I don't put anything past this illegal, illegitimate cartel at this point. Even to the point of them lowering the selective service/draft lower than 18.
People have got to get it thru their heads that there is NOTHING moral, honorable, or even legal about the group of thugs that are at the head of the sinking ship called Amerika.
the new ad is great
and Bush has made it clear that he doesn’t think it’s necessary.
And he "never said they were "stay the course" either...
F*uck the Czar! Neither he nor Shrub can start a draft without congressional authority, and that they won't get. Hell, if you think Iraq is crap now, wait until Shrub has unlimited manpower to spend on the Super Surge!
Besides, Shrub won't even raise taxes on his rich cronies to pay for his war, so do you think he will really draft their precious trust fund brats?
I really hate the term 'volunteer' when they use it to describe those serving in our military. They aren't volunteers anymore. If I volunteer to do something and that something then turns into a bad idea, I then can opt out. Like if I volunteer to help someone move and then they ask me to move a dead body, I am then no longer a willing participant. Those serving in Iraq are as much volunteers as those serving time in prison are guests.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like we've drifted pretty far off-course when a US government public official is referred to as the "War Czar"...
It's a plot to win the 2008 elections. They think all the Dirty Fucking Hippies will run to Canada.
And everybody knows that the entire Democratic Party is nothing but DFH's.
From the very beginning our founding fathers from George Washington to Thomas Jefferson understood the dangers of a standing professional army.
James Madison in 1787:
"A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people."
George Washington's farewell address : "those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty."
It's important to remember that often it's the citizen soldier who serves as the conscience of the military. They see their service through the eyes of a civilian. The draft may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Smack_dab @ 77:
If you enlist you volunteer,trust me on this one...cause I did it.Your ass is theirs till the last minute of the last day of your contract.24/7.....thats just the way it is.
The draft could go either way...it could hasten the end of hostilities...or....if Dubya is in office,it could hasten the invasion of Iran or who knows where else.
One good thing about a draft is that it will put many more pissed off people in the military and the military may be the only thing that can put down the gang criminals squatting in the white house, especially if they decide to extend their stay. At some point the bush gang will push things beyond the breaking point, perhaps, and I do mean perhaps, the draft will accomplish that.
I agree with the majority of opinions expressed here. A draft would sink the Republican Party and would keep them down for a decade or longer. I remain skeptical that it would ever happen and ambivalent if it indeed is reactivated.
Question: Is this what the Democrats are doing? Are they laying low and waiting for the Republicans to dig a deep hole for themselves? They sure haven't accomplished squat since they took power.
Draft first the kids of Bush and Cheney and every politician, Democrat and Republican alike, who voted to authorize the Iraq invasion and of course. If these pols thought their kids would have to go to the front lines at some point in the future we would not be over their now. Easy to vote to send someone else's children to war when your kids stands no chance of going to the front lines.
No deferments for rich privileged assholes this time. Absolutely none. Only allow deferments for physical or mental disabilities. And, a Limbaugh sized boil on your ass, or having more important priorities wouldn't count as a disability. I was drafted in 1966. Back then you could simply buy your way out by going to college (no matter how dumb you were). The po boys went to college after they returned from Nam. Many of the asswipes that escaped by deferments are the same war mongering chickenhawk pricks that hold high power in the GOP these days. Too bad more of them didn't go to Nam. I'm sure it would have improved the gene pool and given the ones that returned more respect for the consequences of anymore unnecessary or elective wars. This country seems to have learned nothing from the Vietnam War experience, except that if you start drafting people or show returning coffins, then people might start paying attention. We couldn't allow that now could we? For those reasons I don't expect to see a draft anytime soon. I think many young people would resist serving this Commander in Thief. That would make the NeoCons look very bad. We can't have that. Nothing to see here. Move along citizen.
[...] Bush War Czar Considering Military Draft Frequent tours for US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush?s new war adviser said Friday. ?I think it makes sense to certainly … [...]
Figures. I doubt many Guard are going to show up for their tenth tour and we're going to be in Iraq for ten, 30, whatever number of years according to various estimates. About the only other thing they can do is offer citizenship to foreigners for serving.
If the draft were reinstalled you can bet there would be multitudes marching the streets of D.C. in protest. On the other hand, if this madness that the WarPigs started doesn't end soon, something will need to be done. Especially if our idiot President attacks Iran. As it was mentioned further up the thread Dumbya has reduced the most powerful and most professional military in the world to a mere shadow of itself. Just expanding the number of soldiers is not going to help. The hardware to fight a war is mostly broken. They can't repair it or replace it fast enough the way it is, and that's with using hardware that belongs to the National Guard.
Lets bring back the draft; but, not for those that are in college (after all a brain drain is uncalled for); open up the choice if convicted of petty felonies that its either jail or the military (oh wait we're already doing that one), lets offer monetary and educational incentives so that the needy get an offer they can't refuse (opps, already doing that one too).
The good old days, happy days are here again.
If the survival or our nation were really at stake, and we couldn't get enough citizens to volunteer to defend it, then we deserve our fate. But that's not situation we are facing right now.
However, if these chickenhawks truly believe in the cause our troops are fighting for, then they should volunteer before asking anyone else to do so.
They should expect their children and/or grandchildren to volunteer, with no college deferments, National Guard assignments or bogus exemptions for anyone.
They should be willing to sacrifice in other ways too, particularly by paying higher taxes.
Really don't mean to be indelicate regarding this draft situation but....
I believe somebody has got their hand up our collective skirts to see just how far they can go....
Or to put it another way....
To put the draft out on the table is to see just how much we can stomach on this particular menu....
ticktock @ 92:
Uh, I don't know about you Kemosabe, but I'm not wearing a skirt.
Just two splashes of Joop and a smile.
Yes the Draft and rommnies BOYS lead the way in Combative arms infantry as well as all the other GOPers son and Daughters. Yes support your COuntry Draft your son NO DEFERMNETS. the ASSHOLE in the VPO is a perfect example of why not. America doesn't need to breed anymore GUTLESS, SPINELESS, COWARDS and TRAITORS like we have now all on the RIGHT and ALL christians and NeoCons.
Yup worthless trash the GOP should lead the way all the way the chil;dren Drafted first into COMBATIVE ARMS INFANTRY, NO DEFERMENTS
Oh I marched to the battle of New Orleans
At the end of the early British war
The young land started growing
The young blood started flowing
But I ain't marchin' anymore
For I've killed my share of Indians
In a thousand different fights
I was there at the Little Big Horn
I heard many men lying
I saw many more dying
But I ain't marchin' anymore
It's always the old to lead us to the war
It's always the young to fall
Now look at all we've won with the sabre and the gun
Tell me is it worth it all
For I stole California from the Mexican land
Fought in the bloody Civil War
Yes I even killed my brother
And so many others
And I ain't marchin' anymore
For I marched to the battles of the German trench
In a war that was bound to end all wars
Oh I must have killed a million men
And now they want me back again
But I ain't marchin' anymore
(chorus)
For I flew the final mission in the Japanese sky
Set off the mighty mushroom roar
When I saw the cities burning
I knew that I was learning
That I ain't marchin' anymore
Now the labor leader's screamin' when they close the missile plants,
United Fruit screams at the Cuban shore,
Call it "Peace" or call it "Treason,"
Call it "Love" or call it "Reason,"
But I ain't marchin' any more.
I created an ad about this as well. Check mine out. It's satire that I hope packs a punch because I have no doubt this is where we are unfortunately heading.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO5Y2pGD9bI
myiq2xu @ 93:
Oh no!....
You've made it too easy for the enemy!---LOL!...
After all "Freedom isn't Free"
Right, the RICH insist that YOU pay dearly for the freedom they allow you.
All they need to do, is keep their economic policies in place. Pretty soon, you will either be in a paper shuffling job, or the military.
We don't need a draft -- as long at America's new export is that we are essentially, the Brown Shirts for Globalism.
I've been trying to figure out how we haven't tanked our credit yet -- what with the Chinese giving us enough rope to hang us -- didn't they just give us the; "Shut yo mouth byatch, or you'll feel my pimp hand" speech?
Anyway, I think amongst the G8 Elites, they value America and other countries based upon their "holdings" and not their output. Essentially, we have quite a number of third-world nations in our thrall. And a good Oil Nation like Iraq makes up for the Trillion in debt it put us. Perhaps the reason we can't leave Iraq -- is the same reason we have the draft, is the same reason we haven't gone bankrupt; Iraq is a US possession, according to the offshore banks that OWN everybody. So if we lose Iraq -- we lose our credit, which is based upon future Iraq output -- not US output, and add in most of latin America as well. Looking at the world by ignoring the pretty facade the media likes to put on it -- the US never stopped slavery or imperialism, we just made it look different--we outsourced it. And if a state doesn't behave and wants to "get free" of the World Bank shackles -- we make it an abject lesson.
Aaah, Republican talking points about the real "surge" begins...needing a military draft.
Because for their 10-year-plan for occupying...er, stabilizing Iraq to be realized, a military draft "surge" will definitely be necessary.
I also cannot see a draft any time soon for the reasons cited above, but also for another reason: There would be chaos because suddenly every second draftee would claim he was GAY and then what? Isn't that what happened with those who didn't want to serve in WWII? They are such homophobes they would never ever abolish the DADT policy. Heck, they even put this country in more peril because they fired all those Arabic linguists simply for being gay, remember? Much of our intelligence was calamitously defective because of that with many lives lost, but they didn't care.
I remember Colin Powell, who was so viciously insistent on the DADT policy, exposing his dishonor when he let down his country with his lies at the U.N. The irony is that many gays survived the war and live now because of the DADT policy.
I used to think that ... if all Americans shared the sacrifice of having their sons and daughters serve in the military, that maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be so glib about going to war, or so eager to support a president who wants to do what Bush has done.
Well, now I realize that the average American just isn't that bright, and they probably would support a guy like Bush anyway. So, there you are.
Besides, I would counsel my daughters to look into Vancouver or Victoria if a universal draft came back. British Columbia is a great place to visit or to live.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 86:
Actually I recommend keeping the voluntary military just for Natural Selection purposes.
There is a lot of talk about avoiding the proposed future draft by fleeing to Canada. I read on the message boards a couple years ago that the US & Canada agreed to hunt down & return any draft-dodgers as part of some negotiations at the time. The government has covered its bases on this one.
Arroyo @ 103:
But then... that would cut down the number of people who want to fight... for "just things"
Eugenics...much quicker
Okay, I have the shields up and I am ready for the battering...
I have been asking my husband WHY we do not have people in the streets, the press screaming, etc. YES, I am a child of the 70s. I found an interesting article two weeks ago about the same issue. The author pointed out it was the draft that pissed everyone off back then.
Maybe the draft is the only way to wake up sleeping America.
Commence stone throwing NOW.
A draft may be a moot point. If this war continues much longer, our country will be destroyed economically. Insufficient taxes, no way to pay the bills and Republicans would do anything not to raise taxes for the wealthy (and they're the only ones who have anything to tax nowdays).
During my college years in the late 1960s and early 1970s I can remember thousands of people in front of the Oakland Induction Center yelling the mantra of the time, "Hell No, I won't go", then burning their draft cards. I felt kinda left out because I already went. I was already a Navy Corpsman when the Gulf of Tonkin incident didn't take place. It was a hard time to understand unless you were there. It's hard to say if it would happen the same way again.
I'm not sure they are ready for the general strike that a draft would lead to.
Draft?
YES.
Now.
Bring it. I fucking dare you.
Jewel @ 42:
Hell, yeah. Get those damn middle-agers off of my lawn! Remember that 40 is the new 20... :-)
Ron Paul is the only sure way to avoid the draft. All the Dems have done is increase funding and troops.
Fantastic.. bring on the draft. (I am still of draft age)
Finally something to wake the crap out people under 30. (all of us really) Make everyone think about if they are really so behind this "war for democracy, kill Saddam for daddy fiasco" Is this your WWII?? Is it really? Well put your money where your mouth is and get your son some body armor. Lets all pitch in!
Its about time..
Ducking Your Stones Already @ 106:
No stone to throw You are completely right. It is the volunteer military that got us in this trouble in the first place. The ability to insulate the common people from military adventures like this, are why many of us act like sheep. It is too abstract.
reduce the volunteer military.. have young men serve for two years. If a fight is so important lets all decide that and take the consequences together. There are times to fight, but I can almost guarantee if we had had that policy in place in 2002 we would not have gone to war. (or Bush would not have still been here in 2005)
[Deleted and banned. Posting spam under multiple identities]
mdhatter @ 109:
I should point out that most of those in the early 1970s who shouted "Hell no, I won't go" eventually went, unless they got lucky and didn't get drafted or were able to string out their student deferments until the war was over. I think that's what Dick Cheney did.
maybe i hold too little faith in the motivation of the general American populace but i don't think we'd get up to do anything even if the little man from the draft board appears at their door to take us away... just glued to the boob-tube and wondering when Paris Hilton and Linsey Lohan will give birth to a multi headed lizard beast with the faces of Simon Cowell, Perez Hilton, Bill Oriely (include any number of entertainment/infotainment celebrities). Even if after we go to Iran or the whole world finally decides to wage war against us, we'll be as serene as half-baked Hindu cows as the bombs fall and scorch our bones....doomed to an end brought on by stupid people from every god damned level of government.
Blaed @ 117:
Don't forget the stupid people who have allowed it to happen (collectively us
Donaldd @ 64:
I actually started this thread with a search to see who said this first. Here Here!!!!
V V
'Military Draft'!
Miller's or Bud should pick up on that and start selling it in kegs. It won't be a big seller on campuses, but it should go over great in redneck bars.
Or maybe the college kids will buy lots of it to donate to redneck bars to get a lot of sh*t-kickers drunk and enlisting to fill the quotas.
Doggiebobo @ 6:
Nope they wouldn't, thats why they call it a draft , Draftees'd get an obligation for 2-3 years, with minimum choice on career field . Career field choices are based on what the draftee's test scores were, and the vacancies/ skill sets reqiured by the military. (Hmm I'll take Combat infantry men for 20 points??)
That being said, IMO, before a draft may be instituted, this administration or government would have to first go a complete mobilization of all reserves national guard etc...
And before that happens....
People need to demand an adherence to the war powers act by this administration.
The administration has taken the WAr Powers Act and have ran rough shod over al requirements, obligations, etc... There is your truly impeachable offense.
I think nothing could be better than a draft. The country is already close to revolt over Iraq - I'm with those that believe that would be the wake up this country needs.
i agree
I've long thought that some sort of compulsory service would be a good thing. This would include ALL SORTS of public service, including domestic infrastructure maintenance, health care support, staffing for social services. A wide menu, so there's something for everyone. Oh yeah, even military service, if your'e into that... There's a lot more to running a country than learning to kill people effectively, and it would be a good thing if *everybody* were engaged in the process.
The second the draft went into effect Bush would be impeached.
People are OK with ignoring the Iraq War mess when it's volunteer-only, but if there son or daughter might get drafted they would freak out in a heart beat.
that is the craziest idea I have ever heard. this is just too much.
Please please pretty please, bring on the draft. This war would be over in a week.
kaT @ 14:
How old are you?
im 19, and politically active (raremuch)?
if the draft comes back, no way in hell will i die for this 'democracy'
Ok I agree with some of what you people are saying. I joined the army in Oct 2004 and went to Iraq in Sept 2005. I was stationed in Fort Lewis, WA. I was hit by and IED in my stryker and was hospitalized with a shoulder that was almost tore off by my hatch. We were doing presence patrols in Mosul and we got really close with some of the locals. The kids there were cool and looked up to us. We got thanked all the time for helping them out. Now I would give anything to be able to go back to Iraq. When I see these kids being strapped to bombs and being sent to try and kill us it really hurts me, and I would never tolerate that in the United States so why should they tolorate it there. Oh and By the way the whole time I was in Iraq I never guarded nor fought over an oil rig or any other natural resource. I fought for those kids and my buddies to ther left and right.
Remember in todays Army you need to know how to read and write to get the weapons to work. So you have to be a high school graduate. Right now if you can't pass Algebra you can't hold a gun. Would we allow high school dropout's to drive a water truck in the sand? If you don't want to be drafted then just don't pass the 12th grade today.
Mr. Bush may not have my son for his nefarious purposes. If there were a national service requirement that encompassed National Guard and disaster relief duties, oh, and rebuilding the infrastructure instead of letting it rot - then I could be persuaded. In the meantime, I guess it's time to start planning our exodus.
angry independent-voting mother of a fifteen-year-old boy
Having served in the Marine Corp and then federal service for 25 years,and having been a registered and participating voter . I have this to say.
In the 2000 election 105.6 million votes cast of the 203 million people eligible to vote
I had my say in several elections ..........Did you
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey,November 2000.
(Population 18 and older,
if the US is getting drafted, play it smart like the Iraqis did, join the draft, then take the weapons and training, and use it to fight against what you dont like. The American military training attempts to break you down then build you up how they like it. Simple solution: let them think they broke you down, but then remain loyal and eventually turn on the government. They have no chance either way. Call me a traitor, but Im still cheering for freedom.
What are the best places to live in Canada? Requirements for immigration?
Sure thing. Bring back the draft for republicans.
Hello Draft, meet Mad Mom.
I will definitely kick anyone’s ass up betwixt their shoulderblades if my children are threatened by some such insanity called “the draft.” One time I smashed a Sammy Adams long-neck over the head of a local drug dealer that was attempting to strangle my next-door neighbor, so I think I can rise to the occasion when necessary.
(He got 5 stitches and never showed his face on my block again, btw.)
lol, I love you Mad Mom.
lol, I love you Mad Mom.
Lute is a loon if he thinks the draft is an option!
Would you be willing to spread the word about www.draftresistance.org? It's a site dedicated to shattering the myths surrounding the selective slavery system and building mass civil disobedience to stop the draft before it starts!
Our banner on a website, printing and posting the anti-draft flyer or just telling friends would help.
Thanks!
Scott Kohlhaas
PS. When it comes to conscription, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
The draft is a violation of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments, and violates the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Get the fuck out of office.
milquetoast @ 105:
I've got to admit, I can't argue with you there.
Scott Kohlhaas @ 140:
Scott: Just now found the link you posted. Thanks x 100!!
I have an autistic son(mild) age 15, and have been filling out and turning in the opt out form every year to the public school my son is in. I started it as soon as he hit middle school and now that he is starting high school, it's more important than ever. The website is called Leave My Child Alone, but the website is down right now. However, I do have the forms downloaded in Adobe Acrobat form on my hard drive. If you want them, please let me know and I will give you my e mail address so you can e mail me and let me know.
I will fight to the last breath in my body to keep my son out of this illegal, immoral, unjust bloodbath war.
[...] Bush War Czar Considering Military Draft [...]
Norse @ 1:
Actually the best hope of ending this war may be voting for a Republican, Ron Paul.
It would be a good way to get people involved! (with making changes... not with waging wars)
I, being of draft age, think that it should be reinstated. If you brought back the draft you would drag war to the forefront you would involve the people much like WWII and Vietnam. The average American would have to sacrifice, themselves, their sons and daughters, and even things like iron and nylon The People would have something at stake even if it is as mundane as rubber or latex (this will obviously disappoint the S&M crowd.) What the anti-war voice is lacking is Everybody Else, the Iowa soccer mom, the Virginia NASCAR dad, when you tear them away from the right wing-nuts and show that their son, niece, nephew, daughter or self have an obligation to a war they supported then they may enlighten themselves. I, on the other hand, will be in Canada sipping espresso in a Montreal cafe.
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