The War as We Saw It
By John Amato Saturday Aug 18, 2007 6:34pmHow long will it take the Malkinites to attack these US soldiers over their dissenting opinions on the Iraq War?
VIEWED from Iraq at the tail end of a 15-month deployment, the political debate in Washington is indeed surreal. Counterinsurgency is, by definition, a competition between insurgents and counterinsurgents for the control and support of a population. To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched. As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day...read on
Login or Register to post comments.
Surreal Sir!
Well given their performance with the last soldier who went off-script, I'd say their response will approach the speed of flying saucer falling into a black hole.
I think you just want us to pull out before our goal of total and complete loss is accomplished.
How long can the last of the 28%ers hold out? For cryin' out loud what will it finally take to convince them that all is not well in Bushworld? But as for my prediction, they'll just say these guys aren't officers, just lowly NCOs, and thank God they're not in charge, blah, blah, blah. It just goes to show they don't understand, it's the NCOs that are the backbone of the army. The 82nd Airborne no less.
Who knows more,soldiers or the General.
WHo knows more, the soldiers or the Secretary of Defense.
WHo knows more, Hanlon and Pollack or the soldiers.
WHo know more, the soldiers St. McCain, St. Rudy, CEO Milt talk to or these soldiers who probably never even met a serious presidential candiate
They are soon to be exposed as traitors who want their women to wear Burkas.
WHS
These six soliders, on the battleline front, have a much better handle on the
situation in Iraq than those clowns in Washington, and that includes the Pentagon.
I wish them well and a return home sooooon, and safe.
These servicemen will be attacked on Monday.
The attack is no doubt already under way.
I just don't know how much more our guys can take. They have been abused by the Bushites for many years, and they still loved him for it. Now they are getting a belly full of the lies and have had enough. That speaks volumes.
[Deleted. Off topic blogwhoring]
It is all about war profits. vid. link. General betray us must go.
Oh, I'm sure not very long and Melanie Morgan will be right behind her
waiting her turn just like a spider
PollM @ 10:
Your hourly posting on C&L with YOUR poll is becoming very, very irratating. Can
you offer ANYTHING to the discussions w/o posting your website in each and every
instance?????
Effin' chickenhawks. If the surge is going so swimmingly, let 'em all sign up. Should be perfectly safe now, except perhaps for the risk of being bruised under the crush of the flowers all the grateful Iraqis will rain down upon their liberators.
Feh. You and I know that we'll see the Bush twins in combat boots before thaaaat ever happens...
cubiclegrrl @ 14:
doubt that ones knocked up the other will be soon!
strawberry @ 4:
What I would love to see and read are the written responses in regards to this article that the New York Times receives from the citizens. I am almost sure 90 percent or more will
support these fine military persons. Does anyone know if such is available thru the NYT
and how access thereto is accessible?
Doggiebobo @ 13:
Sitemonitor: Mucho gracious...you did good.
tyree @ 15:
forget bush twins, when you have a small squad of young war-ready romneys - the aqua velva squad.
INFANTRYMEN and NCOs.
Time for the dumbest (29%ers) of our fellow Americans to STFU and FINALLY LISTEN to the f**king troops.
An example will have to be made of them. Can't have soldiers believing they have the right to publicly spout opinions contrary to administration policy.
Next thing you know they'll all be doing that and forcing an end to the war.
Doggiebobo @ 17:
EconAtheist @ 19:
Absolutely, however, it is more than evident that such 28% do not have the ability
or intelligence to read the NYT; and even more so, they could not comprehend what these
soldiers are saying.
Too bad nobody will listen to these guys.
They just s**t canned their careers in an attempt to be honest.
So when our Doofus-In-chief comes out with his version of the Petraeus report, who do you think they'll remember?
These guys probably bought themselves another 15 months at the front.
Remember, with Bush, no good deed (like Truth) goes unpunished!
Gawd, this makes me sick. Our finest are lied to, abused, stretched to their limit, facing mental breakdowns and suicide and for what? For a no-nothing gang of cheats.
chimpy and his gang continue to promote lie after lie.
repugs are gassy.
one thing i cant abide thats ass kissers, and generals they both raise a stink!
Rove spoke to this issue. He essentially said that he agreed with them - or at least their conclusion, which is said was give it time and let it work. (This is probably rovian spin on the line 'see the mission through'). So that is the spin. Malkin varies from that at her own peril.
RobertPaul @ 23:
It's been a long while since I was in the Service, so I have no recollection as to the
exact and precise provisions of the Army Regulations as to "speaking out" and/or
expressing one's opinions/views, therefore to what extend "today's" military personnal
may be censored or told to STFU, is more than likely much, much more restrictive
than in the past.. Sad, however, probably true.
Green Zone insider reports from Baghdad that there is rumored to be a small US unit in Iraq officially tasked with offing GIs viewed as trouble makers or those who might talk too much if rotated.
Unintended I think I try hard to contribute insightful well researched content, that is part of the discussion. My apologies if I misunderstood this issue.
Again my appologies
I hope that the NYT will be waiting at Fort Bragg to interview these soldiers when they return to the US because they are so far out on the limb that a sparrow couldn't get to them - they are going to need the support of many.
They said what I have believed for a long time. My hope is that they be true messengers.
Honest George @ 30:
I strongly commend these soldiers for their article. As Mark Twain said:
"Why not go out on the limb? That is where the fruit is."
and I wish them all a speedy return State-side.
They will get the Fox News treatment. O'Reilly, Gibson, Hannity and the others will swiftboat 'em soon enough!
L.A. Confidential @ 28:
Seriously LA, if they tried to off every GI who complained about Bush right now, they'd have only 28% of the army left.
im sure right now they feel liberated by thier decishions but as a famouse marine sargent once said you fuck with the man and hell fuck you back even more, im sure they will be given a tour of the brig when they get home and might get religion after watching the ritual of the brig chasers marching you every where with a shot gun in your back !
where is Karen Hughes when the administration needs her?
Chickenhawks think "Band of Brothers" refers to the Romney boys. Or maybe the Beach Boys.
The Melanie Morgan Nazis will call these men "cockroaches" in need of "stomping on and neutralizing".
-GSD
I saw Malkin a couple of weeks ago for the first time. She's horrible! Glen Beck is an misguided, swinish idiot, but at least he can read. She also browbeats and bullies her guests. If that's the future of Fox, we can all breathe a little easier. She's unwatchable.
The Dems should use this article like the right used Hanlon.
Then attack the hell out of wingnuts for not supporting the troops.
These brave troops are putting their careers on the line so the left better have their back.
Mel @ 38:
I know. She's even worse than Nancy Grace. A true Fox Whore.
strawberry @ 33:
Something about seeing you pals killed that gives people a clarity about your situation. The folks in Iraq can smell the bull shit.
I doubt that 28% of our forces in Iraq approve of Bush. Their just smart enough to keep their mouths shut. These guys are speaking for all the troops. God help them.
I saw this earlier today. It's execellent, a must read! These sound like the kind of soldiers I served with years ago, honest serious men. I salute them as American heroes.
RobertPaul @ 23:
So what we have to do is honor their sacrifice and make sure that none of their words go in vain. Spread this article far and wide and ask your legislator if (s)he's seen it. Send it to them if they haven't. These soldiers didn't write this to make us feel helpless, they gave us a mission. It's ammunition for us to use in our own fighting keyboard brigades.
Who you gonna believe o'hanlon or these Soldiers on the ground?
Active duty personel cannot say a word..period.I wish these guys the best of luck.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/desertionrates.htm Desertion rates...up till 2005...all branchs of service......oddly enough...2001 and 2002 are the highest.
I admire their courage. It isn't easy to express a dissenting viewpoint while still on active duty. The pressure to conform from peers and superiors is enormous. No promotions for these folks. Their next duty assignments may not be all that pleasant either. If you haven't noticed, most active duty personnel have a scripted response that usually includes something about completing the mission. News organizations mistake that as positive response from the service member rather than the only possible response within allowable parameters.
Carmikl @ 47:
Yep...the military will most deffinitly make life very hard for them....after they get out of the stockade or brig....they will literally ride them till they drop.......weren't we just discussing suicide rates?......food for thought.
#47-Carmiki
Very well said. I strongly suspect that these soldiers have received their inspiration to speak out after viewing the courageous acts that were done by their predecessors during the Vietnam War in the incredibly moving 2006 documentary Sir! No Sir! as well as the moving words that were spoken by Lt. Watada at the Veterans for Peace convention last summer in Seattle, when he told myself and my fellow veterans at the banquet dinner that "Enlisting in the military does not relinquish one's right to seek the truth-neither does it excuse one from rational thought nor the ability to distinguish between right and wrong." The hope is that more soldiers in the military today will continue to emulate the example of those who were featured in Sir! No Sir! and of Lt. Watada by speaking the truth and saying NO to the war machine of the United States.
I want to send each of these men a nice care check......we should be passing around the hat. any contact info?
or is that somehow against rules.....I know people are sending the troops things, but money will help them more.
Like Amnesty Int.'s tactic, tell the military we are watching how these men are treated from now on, will pay for lawyers, and support them in every way.
Very similar sentiments expressed by these soldiers to a post I wrote last week. So much of the terms of the debate we're having about Iraq is misleading.
Don't you worry about us Malkinites! We're dusting off our cheerleader outfits for one giant L-O-S-E-R cheer ala "Smells Like Teen Spirit" for these anti-American traitors!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQR-OsH0RQ
ISP
I think it is the most accurate synopsis of the war - ever.
strawberry @ 4:
http://www.strike911.org/Jesse Malkin gets to eat dinner with his kids every night. The GIs have to wait 15 months to eat dinner with their kids. 2 Americas
The conservatards can't take those soldiers too seriously. After all, their participation in the Holy War against the Islamonazis has clouded their judgment. Listen to the so-called "Chickenhawks," "Yellow Elephants" and "Keyboard Komandos" if you want opinions untainted by actual experience.
Someday, America will remember those who avoided military service to toil in their mother's basements!
tyree @ 25:
sorry guess thatd be two things
Hello;
There is no IRAQ anymore. Bush have divided it back to the pre 1920 British model. An article in the NYT by seven 82nd Airborne non coms gives the most realistic evaluation of the American occupation of Iraq, the dissolving of their government the tribal/religious fractionalization and the emergence of a possible Shite state aligned with Iran who were defined as the "Axis of Evil" by the Bush administration. Bushco has caused the political demise of a nation, destroyed the infrastructure and caused 4 million people to be homeless, 600,000 Iraqis slaughtered not to mention the death of 3831 of our brave troops doing their duty. He has elevated nuclear tensions an armed the disarranyed factions. Worse even yet he has destabilized the whole region, caused Americas international and national reputation to be in the sewer with torture and disregard for the Geneva Convention, and wasted our national treasury creating a mountain of debt unparalleled in our history. He has politicized our Judiciary and all branches of government illegally and against the Constitution. In deregulating the economy by appointing industry corporate officials the foxes guarding the hen house, he has pushed the economy to the brink of recession ("It's the economy stupid"). He has brought our military to the breaking point while threatening to start another war with Iran. He has let escape Osama Bin Laden the chief of Jihad terrorism against USA and the instigator of 9/11. He has reduced our liberties and spying on us by satellite and our daily telecommunication which may be available to the RNC we do not know as he has thumbed his nose at Constitutional Congressional oversight by invoking "Executive Privilege" to stonewall thc U.S. congress and has installed an Attorney General and the Justice department as a "Firewall" against 'We the People". We are now more at peril of terrorism than ever and he has ignited the wrath of the 1.5 billion Muslims throughout the world. In doing this he has destroyed the reputation of the "grand old party". Republicans of Barry Golwater ilk such as Jon Dean are schocked at their neocon right-wing extremists who show no restraint in stooping to political "dirt tricks". If this administration is not held accountable a signal will be sent to future administrations that "the rule of law" is no restraint against immoral, unethical behavior and crimes against humanity. If extremism of the East is met with extremism from the West then the future of civilization is at the brink of annihilation.
This administration has shown no willingness to stop these actions. Impeachment by the US House of Representative, whether the Senate convicts or not, is now the only way for the American public and the US Congress to get to the bottom of who did what and what were criminal activities. This is an indictment of the far right who has united church and state against the wishes of the founding fathers who understood what devisiveness that has created. If we wish to continue to be controlled by a corporate oligarchy then Impeachment is off the table. If we wish to go back to democratic principals of transparent government by the people then we must Impeach this out of control administration who has abused their power and usurped even more power toward executive dictatorship.
Tip of the iceberg. Bush will be dealing with a new insurgency soon. Not a violent one, but a political revolt against his lack of caring for the American troops. He is losing the respect of the common soldier. He has put them into a dangerous, no win mess. Soldiers can sense when a leader doesn't care about them.
This article is the without question the most serious and well thought out description of the current state of the mess we created.
My first thought was relief that someone was actually thinking about the reality based problems our country faces. This is the first time I thought that someone analyzed our position in Iraq without starting with a pro- or anti- Bush point of view.
My second though was that these non-coms had a giant set of huevos. What courage and honor. It is a shameful indictment of the US Army General Staff that we have not heard this before. I am sure the General Staff appreciate the effectiveness of this article. The retribution from the Army infrastructure is the threat to these guys. Fox News and others will be irritating. 10 years of making big rocks into little rocks at Levenworth is their real problem.
I think these guys know and understand the punishment they potentially face. Yet they spoke out anyway. That is the definition courage, that is the real word expression of the American Warrior ethic and I thank them for it.
It seems that no matter how dark it gets, no matter how many people toe the line there are some patriots that will come forward to stand against tyranny.
I hope the blogging community can keep track of the fate of these courageous, smart and serious soldiers.
This article is compelling. The wingnut noise machine would do well to steer clear of
these soldiers. The truth they speak is unvarnished and not subject to spin.
I suspect the reaction will be to ignore this editorial and hope it goes away.
Actually I hope I'm wrong, this is radioactive stuff and anybody that reads it will become immune to WH bullshit.
shano @ 50:
That's a great idea!! I think the best way to avoid problems with the military might be to make donations to the family? Make sure to put it in the comments if anyone finds out some info on doing that!
tyree @ 58:
Naaaah! Same thing!
From what I've read about the history of Iraq, and the years under Saddam's tutelage, I can't see how Saddam's regime could have been displaced without the fallout that we are now witnessing. The US was the most likely catalyst and 2003 was simply sooner rather than later.
America has and continues to fail to properly manage its own expectations.
The phoenix was reborn out of the ashes. But first there had to be ashes.
I would just like to say that my brother-in-law is one of the authors of this amazing op-ed piece. I would also like to point out that they are the bravest men I know. This article was meant to call into question the counter-insurgency tactics and point out the need for a political solution to this problem. We need to pick one side or get out, that is the reality of the Iraq situation. I realize that by the end of the week this will more than likely have been forgotten (after all, there are celebrities going to jail or rehab), but please DO NOT FORGET. These men have families at home...my brother-in-law is on his 4th deployment and will not be coming home until November. Murphy is going to survive the wounds he received before the publication of this article, but he will never be the same. These men deserve respect for their service and for having the courage to get their opinion out there. They do not deserve to be the brunt of hostility from the pundits on T.V., or to be pushed aside with our need to know all about the latest celebrity screwup. Thanks for listening and supporting our troops!
We should keep track of what happens to these guys. If they are retaliated against for speaking out, it needs to be revealed for everyone to see. Making it clear that we are watching may be the only protection we can offer them. With current recruiting shortages I doubt the Pentagon wants any more bad publicity. The Tillman incident did not help recruitment.
Hey Gray, tell your brave brother-in-law "Thanks!" Hope all's well with you, yours, and all those in the lives of these soldiers.
Your so prophetic
Blackfive and Back Talk went ape crazy...(Google it)
What?ever Moonbats.
strawberry @ 4:
Strawberry is absolutely right. NCOs always have been, and always will be, the BACKBONE of the Army! Amen.
Login or Register to post comments.