CNN's God's Warriors: Ron Luce
By John Amato Sunday Aug 19, 2007 4:30pm
C&Ler Bill sent this in via email:
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This preview's about Ron Luce and his militarized Christian group "Battle Cry"---"Armed with faith and prepared for battle" ..." against the evils of secular society and pop culture," Battle Cry's members are taught by their leader Ron Luce that they must retake America from those he ironically refers to as the "virtue terrorists that are destroying our kids" ... "raping virgin teenage America on the sidewalk."
Reminds me of Jesus Camp, but on a larger scale....Being brought up Catholic---I'm not an anti-religion guy---although I think the Dobson's have perverted it to the point that they have created more hostility towards religion than ever before. I always aim my criticisms at these leaders who make a fortune off of the backs of their members and not to spirituality or religious belief. David Kuo: “The name of God is being destroyed in the name of politics”
Pam:
Even as he tells kids to swear off pop culture, Luce doesn't swear off capitalism, cashing in for Jesus by making money selling Battle Cry books, t-shirts, and videos...read on
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fuck religion, no good can come of it.
Ron Luce...you go, guy. Next stops: meth, gay sex massage, gay prostitution and tax evasion...
I love all the "warrior" and "battle" talk........It's as if they were putting their lives on the line like the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.....
Hate and Intolerance.
Keeping America going for over 500 years!
nuts can be found in all ideologies.
There will always be someone like this who will see a gap and realize the monetary rewards for filling it when it comes to religious people who will actually believe anything they are told and do anything they are told if it makes them think they have a guarantee to get into heaven when they die. He's just another one who is using them.
I've always thought that people who are so bent on doing whatever is needed to go to heaven must have something in their background that's working against that ambition.
What little bit I know about the bible is more than I want to know but didn't they baby jesus warn against false prophets somewhere in the little black book?
I hear ya JA. My southern baptist upbringing not only turned me against religion it made me want to get the hell out of the south. I now live in NYC and for the first time in my life I have tasted the true freedom our forefathers intended for the whole country but sadly exists only in pockets on the two coasts.
"The Squeaky Wheel gets the grease!"
That's why the Silent Majority gets ran over!!
Luce's plan is to save our kids from an exploitative culture by having a show filled with... flashing lights, numerous explosions, and general glorification of violence?
What a dumbass.
Offered the choice between a toxic waste toddy and religion, I'll take the toddy every time.
Sometimes it makes me sad that if I only I could be cynical, craven, hypocritical, manipulative, and greedy, I, too, could make a fortune swindling the gullible faithful, plus the power trip for my ego would be like a Harley ride to heaven.
Alas, I'm secular, borderline atheist (I do believe in a nonspecific universal power), and I have too much of a frickin' conscience to lie, cheat and steal in the name of the Lord, and my basic sense of human decency forbids me to allow atrocities to be committed or encouraged in the name of the Lord.
If I were a faithful Christian, though, I'd stay the hell away from someone whose name sounds like an abbreviation for Lucifer.
CD @ 5:
Ting-a-ling!
Any time a Holy Roller is the subject of a post, C&L should provide a link to Al Pacino's climatic, rug chewing scene from the movie, Devil's Advocate.
There seems to be a problem with the Quicktime copy of this video. I can not get it to play.
Blue Buddha @ 12:
eh?
CD @ 5:
Yes. Ideologies are like shit that way.
Is it just me or I only see white people in these kind of events?
No blacks, no latinos, no asians?.........can somebody explain why this type of christianism seems to be the domain of certain white segment?
Besides, all this talk and posturing about war, warriors, battlecry, lights, fireworks, bravado, red flags......man, I don't know, didn't God say only the meek will inherit the earth?, they ain't meek to me.
I would comment but my comments get censored
nigel @ 3:
Praise Jesus! Testify! You said it!
After this massive indoctrination excersie the little priviledged pasty white chickenhawk hatchlings will head to the mall in mommie's SUV and hang out at the food court while the true soldiers are dying on the battlefield for George Bush and Dick Cheney's lie based oil wars for profit.
The Christian Mullahs here pose the greatest threat to America.
CD @ 15:
The sound of a bell... y'know, like when someone wins a prize on a game show... ;)
Blue Buddha @ 20:
I didn't get that either. The all knowing and wise Blue Buddha shows us why he is the Blue Buddha.
How long do you think it will be before this guy gets caught bopping some underage male or female in his group?
I dunno, it seems to me that what this putz is doing is 'pop culture' - is he railing against himself?
Another hypocrite at work.
"They're raping virgin teenage America on the sidewalk" - Ron Luce
What an odd metaphor, vivid imagination that man has...
Mark my words. 6 months from now Ron Luce will be in the news again this time caught emailing web cam photos of himself in his underwear to pre-teen boys.
.
WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB?
Let the cleansing begin.
Go forth and eradicate the non-believers.
WHO DID JESUS DISPARAGE FOR NOT BELIEVING IN HIM?
"Maybe it needs to be divisive," says Luce(ifer).
.
This is a sign that they are getting more and more desperate. I used to claim to be an agnostic, but I dropped that when I realized that I share nothing in common with these beliefs. I am truly offended by the gratuitous hyperbole.
The Talibaptist and Evilgelicals have given us a new one... "Virtue Terrorism"
Things were so much simpler when all we had to worry about was the "War on Christmas." Now we have to worry about walking down the sidewalk and tripping over some teenage virgin having their virtual virtue raped! Oh My!
Sometimes I get the feeling that all of these High and Mighty types are the equivanlent of the old hucksters you see selling miracle cures out of the back of their wagons. They know what they are saying won't do anything except make some happy and some mad, but in the end it will make them lots of money. Guys like Dobson, Luce, Falwell, and Robertson have just been smart enough not to get caught like Baker. In the end they are all the same hucksters getting richer off of the poor and downtrodden.
.
Personally,
I see people like Luce(ifer), who promote intolerance, exclusivity, conditionality, hate, bigotry, etc. as EVILgelicals. They aren't preaching God's word and the messages of Christ by teaching and promoting ant-Christian values that are counter to real Christian doctrine/values/principles of acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness, inclusivity, love.
.
You know the wingnuts love this crap.
But, let's just put this exact show in another country, using a different language, and a different religion. Everything else is the same, the show, the delivery, the message. Let the show be in Palestine, and the religion be Islam, but let the message of "battle" and "warriors" and "war" be the same.
Now how would the wingnuts react?
It's absurd.
Wonder if she'll cover these loons?
I had to take my dog outside before I could watch the whole thing. 22,000 of them came to see him. That's scary! I agree, his name will come up again and not in a good way. This guy is up to something besides being "god's warrior". I'd put money on it.
ah , 'battle cry' , amerikkka's al-qaeda-lite.
Rusty Shackleford @ 9:
Yeah Jesus just digs a good pyro show...woooo hoooo!
I think it minimizes the severity of any issue when the really bright people rationalize discusting behavior exists everywhere..."nuts in every camp."
THIS GUY IS A HITLER IN THE MAKING.
CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE CAREFUL WITH THIER DOGMATIC FANTASIES.
Don't call me Jeezy Creezy!!
Whatever happened to that other God Warrior (trademarked, I'm sure) who was all the trading spouses rage?
Dark-sided?
I thought she would have gotten her own t.v. show by now...
This is not silly, it is serious. See the movie "Jesus Camp". Then google Michael Weinstein. Many of the top brass in the military are members of this fundamental dominionist group.
Why must these Wing-nutO's always try to prove to the world that they think they are holier than thou, when everyone knows they have proven to be nothing but ignorant, hate monguering, bigoted, homophobic liars.
Blue Buddha @ 20:
Oh...Well thank you.
In my life I've met people from almost every ideology some good and some bad.
I hope the latter outnumber the former.
I'm guessing that none of those 22,000 teenagers has ever heard of Triumph of the Will, let alone seen it. But that was the first image that popped into my head when I saw the video.
Well, he's right about one thing. The loudest usually get their way. I mean, this guy got CNN to produce a one hour infomercial for his movement. When will the traditional media learn not to egg these people on?
Pete @ 38:
Here ya go...enjoy!
:D
" His Christian code requires a "wartime mentality": a "survival orientation" and a readiness to face "real enemies." The queers and communists, feminists and Muslims, to be sure, but also the entire American cultural apparatus of marketing and merchandising, the "techno-terrorists" of mass media . . ."
So does this mean this guy and his Christian warriors will be picketting and boycotting Fox, Disney, NBC Universal/GE, Viacom, Time Warner, The Gap, Calvin Klein, the big ad agencies - all the corporations that have cynically turned children into a commoditized market, to be pandered to with violence, inappropriate sexual content and the message that money is everything?
Of course not. Ron Luce just wants to raise contributions from the gullible to go after the usual suspects. And create his own Jesus-brand in the bargain.
Which pinkos, queers and feminazis would Jesus beat up?
This is the second time someone from the religious right has used the image of a publically violated teen-age virgin to make a point (remember the guy from S. Dakota?) I think they get off on the idea of raping teenage virgins.
Oooo, just watched the clip and my Gaydar went crazy. That guy is a definitely Ted Haggard gay. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
Dana,
It was a rhetorical question meant as satire*... but thanks!
^_^
*not really sure that satire is the right word, but I'm sure you get my meaning.
David Kuo: “The name of God is being destroyed in the name of politics”
Actually the Bible and the Koran (to name just a couple) have already done a pretty thorough job of destroying the name of God, as everyone from Mark Twain to Robert Ingersoll to Sam Harris to Christopher Hitchens have pointed out rather eloquently.
Maybe if the polite, reticent "I have a lot of respect for all faiths, I was raised as a [catholic, muslim, hindu, baptist, etc] myself" crowd would grow some gonads, admit that they are really atheists or agnostics, and start blasting away at the Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson/Rod Parsley/Ted Haggard kooks with both barrels blazing, we could get the wingnuts off our backs and move forward and evolve as a culture.
MargeAggedon @ 10:
Religion IS a toxic toddy. Just look at Jonestown.
I just saw part of "Jesus Camp" on Australian public TV last night, and it scared the bejesus out of me. I'm very happy to be living in another country, and very frightened for my own.
This isn't just some innocuous preaching or one-off radical group. This is a massive movement to create a fascist state, supported by propaganda, political power brokers and tax-free capital gains.
They are brainwashing kids to believe the Bible over scientists or teachers.
They are homeschooling, to keep them dumb and obedient.
They are creating religious propaganda for young kids, disguised as secular cartoons ("VeggieTales").
They are creating video games where Christians have to kill non-believers and followers of other religions.
They even have their own army supported by U.S. taxpayer dollars: Blackwater.
Don't laugh. These people are deadly serious.
Sure! next these kids can get Visa cards at 25% or more interest, wasn't that considered loan sharking some time ago? After that, they can buy a house in a bubble market, and owe the bank more than the property is worth for the rest of their lives, or maybe their religious duty will send them off to some conflict overseas. Get a job? the corporations have already outsourced all the jobs to cheap foreign labor. And a media where all they see is Paris Hilton? Who the fuck's fault is that? There are no journalists anymore, only 'conservative commentators' on FOX.
When you watch these kids in the video about Luce's group or Jesus Camp, how worked up they get, and how SURE they are in their faith and what they are told, and add to it all that talk about them being warriors, and this being a battle, how much of a stretch would it be to put a gun in their hands, or put them behind the wheel of a Ryder van packed with explosives.
These kids are going to be killing people and blowing up buildings within 10 years.
Max-1 @ 30:
hmm... mabye evan-genitals
I find it ironic that the people worshipping the cross the most are the ones burning it.
Am I the only one that thought that looked like a Nazi rally? What's with the Red Flags?
Thank you ND, it was a Nazi rally!
CD @ 5:
Yeah, well real social, real economic, and real political philosophies, much like scientific theories, are bound by logic and observation. Religion, on the other hand, is bound only by that voluntary schizophrenia you call religious faith and wishing REALLY hard.
Its not much of a comparison.
Johnny2 Bad @ 47--
Ron Luce *is* a graduate of Oral Roberts University. He was another old-time con man, raking in mucho dough from the gullible.
I don't know about his being gay, but he sure is squirrely.
Ron Luce should jump on the Vick story and start a "Prayers for Pets" division.
Pitbulls for Jayzus. The sheeple are waiting with open hearts and checkbooks. ($$$$$$)
In the words of George Carlin, "Clergymen are full of ****!"
john @ 36:
Hitler youth, anyone? Zieg heil, indeed.
Zenrage @ 56:
"voluntary schizophrenia"
See what I mean folks?
First the flags, then the arm-bands....
What did they do after the stage show, stand in a circle chanting while burning copies of The New York Times and Bill Clintons autobiography?
As an European I can look back at centuries of religious warfare on this continent. America has been staging it's religious culture war for some time now, but it will stay a lame ass affair at home. It's only people in other countries bleeding for it - and religion is once again only used to expand a materialistic and imperialistic agenda.
I can't wait to see him on the news after he is caught up in a teen sex scandal.
“Armed with faith and prepared for battle” …” against the evils of secular society and pop culture,”
Kind of ironic.
I consider evangelists to be part of pop culture.
orangeguru @ 63:
It's always confused me how some self declared Christians can be so materialistic.
All that's missing is a good book burning.
"Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings." Heinrich Heine, German author (1797~1856) How prescient.
I don't see much of a difference between Luce and his ilk and those who rush to condemn all religions. Claiming that everyone with religious belief is bigoted is, itself, a bigoted claim. Claiming that every tolerant religious person is really an agnostic is just ... ignorant.
BTW, you do know that a drink of toxic waste would kill you in seconds, right MargeAggedon? I'm sure you'd really prefer that to religion ....
This made me laugh:
"Being brought up Catholic—I’m not an anti-religion guy..."
What does one have to do with the other? Some of my best atheist (and anti-religion) friends were brought up Catholic.
Actually, it's the secular society that protects his right to have his Hitler Youth Rallies.
...and also gives us the right to point it out for what we think it obviously is.
It'll be sad though, when one of those tweaked out kids grabs a copy of his book and with it tucked under his/her arm, shoots a gay kid at school. I wonder what happens to our "Battle Cry" friend here.
Personally, I'm getting really tired of dealing with the after effects of all these crazy religious freaks, be them Christian or otherwise.
Wow... Looks pretty much the same...
They didn't have the fancy lights back then though...
Ok, I'm scared!
OK here is the deal. Someone put a private investigator on this guy....this way we can save all the hassles of finding out later that he is secretly gay, a pedophile, drug addict, or whatever. The whole of right wing hypocrisy is based on the psychological defense mechanism of "reaction formation", projecting forth a "pious" image to hide the nasty dirt underneath.
V V
Given my experience with right wing Christians and born agains, they not only teach hatred toward "non-believers", they also preach hate toward other Christians, in particular those nasty Papists. The media spins just by sheer weight of exposure that Christianity is Pat Robertson and his ilk. Catholics who make nice with these people are like Jews who make nice with them. The ending this people have for Catholics, Jews, and others is adorned with violent fantasies.
Everything these people point to as what is bad about Islam and the Muslim faith, they are simply repackaging in Christian format.
Warriors = Jihad
Radical Islam = Jew
Huge outdoor events with preachers screaming about how to be a better (fill in religion here).
Background images of war and death.
Angles/Rapture = Martyrs/76_virgins.
Organized religion begets, at the very basic of levels, hatred and intolerance. It cannot be avoided if each specific cult believes that it alone is on the "right path", and all others must be converted. I would not be surprised if part of the bush agenda vis a vis Iraq relates to opening the country of Iraq to christianity - and if this causes the coincidental "removal" of Muslims, oh well.......
The indoctrination for christianist fundies begins with the very young - in preschool and in "kids church" services. The precepts of the particular religion are hammered into the heads of children in a relentless fashion, precluding independent thought. Psychologists call this brainwashing, and that is exactly what it is.
No wonder we have bozos in the White House like bush, and no wonder we are quickly approaching a theocratic dictatorship in this country.
I'm not anti religion,But I'm mad as hell at the BS they've pulled off.Who the hell do they think they are?The hypocricy pushed me away from religion....not to mention all that's happened in the name of religion.Every religion has a violent past........no thanks
baby jesus loves popular culture, porn, pot and petite young girls
Like all repugs...Luce(ifer) is in it for the money.......funny how is name is missing a few letters..
dollars to donuts he gets busted within a year for some sex crime.
These homegrown fundies are the ones that we really need to worry about. The bumbling, yet dangerous islamic radicals are of significant concern, but these Christo-fascist nuts are on our home turf. They are JUST as crazy, if not more so.
North Korea??
johnx @ 24:
watch, luce will be exposed as a pedaphile...
Just like Becky Fischer cept he's going after teenagers ...
Powkat @ 42:
That was my first thought too. Also, he complains about people caring more for Paris Hilton than Jesus. The media that obsessively shows Hilton et al is owned by white, conservative, rich men. What's the base of the Christianis movement? White,conservative rich men.
Shell5960w @ 70:
Yea, it's like, "Oh crap, my parents are Catholics so now I have to be Catholic for the rest of my non-thinking life".
...If your parents jumped off a bridge, ... you know the rest.
Repressed fucked up parents make far more damage to kids than watching two adults having sexual intercourse on the TeeVee... But that would require that all those so-called Christian wako parents look at themselves in the mirror and accept their responsibility as parents.
Instead, just drive your gas guzzling SUV to an expectable of special effects and fireworks and blame someone else. It is easier, and far more entertaining... isn't it?
The religious right in this country has nothing to do with the actual tenets of Christianity, it is just a way for these fucked vile creatures to appease whatever it is left of their consciences so they can keep living in denial and get another fine night of sleep.
The evangelist movement is nothing more than a bunch of charlatans that are selling confirmation to an even bigger bunch of assholes. Preachers these days are more motivational speakers than actual men of god. They worship money, if Jesus came back they would be the first ones to nail him back to the cross.
This reminds me of the time when Toma came to my high school and gave an anti drug talk.He carried on like an Evangelical preacher and even convinced a number of the kids to turn their dope into him with no questions asked.Two days later when the euphoria of Toma's charismatic performance wore off they all regretted giving their weed up and came begging for some from the people who did'nt turn it over to him.Now I'm not promoting drug use I'm just saying the effect of guys like Luce has alot of caught in the moment appeal to young people.When he moves on most kids forget about him.
yep...and the tooth fairy leaves quarters under your pillow and the moon is made of cheese and Neptune makes the seas rough......but hey if they want to believe that good for them....just don't try to limit or control my life with their beliefs... that ain't gonna happen...and they can expect a little resistance from me after all the BS they've pushed on people.
It appears to me that these Fundies are trying to copy the indoctrination of Scientologist.
Mama's don't let your babies grow up to be fundies...........
Dave @ 86:
Incidentally Paris Hilton is the product o a set of conservative rich white parents...
These assholes shit and piss all over the place, and then complain that the bathroom stinks and that we need to clean it. It is like the roomate from hell who only uses the royal we when it comes to clean up the mess he/she made, and by royal we he/she means everyone but her.
Fuck'em... 10K years of human civilization, and religion has contributed jack squat. In fact religions have been proven wrong over and over and over and over..... and over again. It is time to ask these loons to just shut the fuck up.
Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Satanists, etc, etc, etc... JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP all of y'all.
Wasn't there a lot of raping going on during the crusades?
So these christians will rape virgin secularists on the sidewalk, while other christians stand in line waiting their turn.
Nice change.
The event kinda reminded me of Pink Floyd's The Wall.
Anybody else notice that? They might have hired the same choreographer.
Powkat @ 42:
I don't think any of them have a clue about a film from the 1930's(reifenstaal was the director I think) Germany
“Being brought up Catholic—I’m not an anti-religion guy…”
1. Either an extremely ugly alter boy, or
2. An extremely good looking alter boy who enjoyed the "attention".
Why anyone in the 21st century would attend a pedophile preserve that tells you condoms are evil is beyond me.
And what's with that pergatory flip-flop? Think of all the misery to parents of dead kids that BS caused.
Does Religion deserve respect?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WPAC_cGVnUg
Mike the Canuck @ 95:
The similarities from then and now are very disturbing....to put it mildly.
If you are looking for resources in the debate on the value of religion, this is the place to go:
http://FreeThoughtPedia.com/
You are welcome to contribute as well.
Da Spyda @ 97:
Yeah it does deserve some respect....it's the loons who go over board with it that need to be "Enlightened".......their are some very good people who are religious....it's the fundies who are trying to make a buck of it and stirring up all this political crap in the hope of more control.....and in doing so start infringing on my rights...the loons need to be reigned in and taught to respect all people..but that ain't gonna happen.Religion in itself is discriminatory.
mudshark @ 100:
If we're going to ask why Religion deserve respect should we not also ask why atheism deserves respect?
CD @ 101:
absolutely
the funny thing about atheist is that you don't see them trying to convert people.
I'm really glad John posted this video. I send him lots of clips for him to use or not at his discretion of course, but this is one I was really hoping wouldn't get tossed aside. :)
That's the American Taliban right there.
All I can say, his Battle Cry events have been very successful, and are growing stronger every year, and it's going international next year. The people and the market is ready for another invasion, an invasion of decency, maturity, common sense and above all faith in the name of our Lord. For all the negative talks in this board, then why is it that teenagers turned to and attended this event in droves ?! All thanks to the hateful, discriminatory, non-christian liberal media.
Arlington Group @ 105:
And we have a new winner in the Parody Troll category, unseating the long standing champion Left Behind Advocate. Coming to a neighborhood near you, an invasion of laughs, a veritable yuck tusnami.
By mixing militaristic themes with religion, Luce's American Taliban are breeding the next Eric Rudolphs or James Kopps, or worse.
These 'Battle Cry' people scare me A LOT more than the 'seas of david' paintballers in FL or the pizza delivery terror cell at Ft Dix.
Arlington Group @ 105:
Which market are you talking about?
ahhhhhh....the money!......Arlington group....what would you do if money wasn't in the picture?What would you do if you couldn't make a buck of of religion?
justabill @ 107:
or Timothy McVeigh
And so begins the countdown to the inevitable news that Luce is hiring male prostitutes, is addicted to meth, or is buying guns for Iraqi insurgents. Just wait...it's coming!
[Deleted. Sorry, CD, but you are not hijacking the thread with that one]
Arlington Group @ 105:
really .....a drive by.....when he takes it international...be sure to go to Lebanon,Isreal,Syria,Iraq,Iran,Saudi Arabia,Jordan,The West Bank and Gaza,Turkey,Afgahnistan,Pakistan,Tajekistan,Indonesia,...awhh heck...while he's at it...hit China too...their all dirty pagans over their...aren't they.
[Deleted. Off topic]
There is some serious spiritual psychosis at work here. It is the first religious revival in American history of which I am aware that is predicated upon violent and overt hatred of others.
sulphurdunn @ 115:
William Jennings Bryant must being rolling over in his grave.
I fear no one more than the fundamentalists. My experience tells me that this Luce should be highly feared. Parents, wise up. Get your kids away from him. Beware the "wolf in sheeps clothing"...
[Deleted. Amusing but off topic fundie bait]
”raping virgin teenage America on the sidewalk.”
These guys really do spend a lot of time thinking about violent sexual assault and perversity, don't they? I mean, between this guy raping virgins on the sidewalk, Grover Norquist's "Date Rape" comment and, of course, Sick Rick Santorum's "man on dog" action. These "people" really are fucked up in the head. Count on CNN to give 'em a national stage.
Arlington Group @ 105:
seigh hiel
Ironically, it was only the production values that were impressive.
Personally, I find much of modern American "culture" totally lacking in taste and decency,
geometry and theology. (!)
...
Mike the Canuck @ 118:
If I respond to this is it hijacking?
[Not if you can keep it on topic -- Sitemonitor]
i asked my brother whos a devout pentacostal so your going to heaven because you believe in jesus , answer yes , i said well do you believe anyone whos never even heard of jesus is going to hell, answer yes , well i said what about the american indians who were here before the white man came do they go to hell, or the africans before the whie man came with his jesus are they in hell, answer yes, jesus christ what a bunch of useless assholes !
mudshark @ 110:
Actually, McVeigh was an atheist and libertarian.
This Luce guy is definitely a Lucifer type -- inverts everything Christ stood for. According to their own eschatology, they are the legions of the antichrist, not the heavenly hosts!
"Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
All right now!"
I give it six months and it turns out that LUCE -ifer is having meth parties and banging his teenage "assistants"
It makes sense somehow that America's version of the Al Qaeda videotape comes with swooshing graphics and sound effects.
These people are not Christians, they are Dominionists. They all about complete power. Read Chris Hedges, "American Facists" or Michael Weinsteins, "God on our Side." These people are scary and dangerous because most Americans do not take them seriously and they are scouping up the naive and not very bright folks by the truck load. The use the tactics of Hitler.
Arlington Group @ 105:
The separation of church and state was probably the best idea the founding fathers had.I just need to know who exactly is stopping you praying and worshipping as you see fit? Just what is the non-Christian,liberal media supposed to do to make you happy?The fact is I and a decent number of people are uncomfortable with religion when it stops being about peace and love and hope and meaning and starts being about looking for enemies to persecute.
xargaw @ 127:
There's also "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phillips and "Tempting Faith" by David Kuo.
Both are former high ranking Republicans who explain just how Bush is bastardizing Christianity for his own ends.
Sure were a lot of white people at that gathering. Angry, fearful white people who feel their world shrinking as hordes of blacks and Mexicans and Chinese and Pakistanis invade their country, take their jobs, fill their neighborhoods, fuck their women...
I think I see a whole bunch of brutal white cops hitting the streets in about ten years.
Killing in the name of!
http://www.ratm.net/lyrics/kil.html
tyree @ 123:
See...thats what I'm talking about........really makes you wonder don't it.It's all about fear.....you will go to hell if you aren't one of us........................what kind of crap is that....................................
bullshit
Tyree..."IF" I go to "hell"....I'm gonna kick "Satan" out and put in a pool and a bar...and get some live music......some good food would be nice too.
mudshark @ 131:
At the rick of this being seen as a hijack I think it's only fair to point out that the New Testement does make mention of people who never heard of Jesus yet knew him in their hearts as getting in to Heaven.
No I don't know the exact passage off the top of my head.
CD @ 133:
and if they never knew him how could they know him in thier hearts !!!!!jesus thiers an answer for anything in the bible or at least how you interpert it!
CD @ 129:
this puts me in mind of the Spanish Inquisition..although not as violent...but the mind set is there..and a whole host of other events as well.AHHHHH....FUNDIES......history does not look favorably on them......no?
mudshark @ 132:
just dont disturb satan mudsark hes busy getting his johnson worked on by fallwell
What ever happened to "Do good unto others"
mudshark @ 135:
History NEVER speaks glowingly of those who flippently torture or support torture.
mudshark @ 137:
it went out the window when the first chrisian passed the plate and it came back with only a dollar fifty in it !
you havnt been to a black southern baptist church it is just as bad
Mike the Canuck @ 118:
Mike, thanks for the great post. Shows the hypocricy we deal with on a daily basis from the fundies. I am sure that list of 10 items could easily grow to a list of hundreds, if not thousands.
CD @ 138:
Even Religion evolves......to turn a blind eye towards history is to risk repeating it...
I have to say, as an atheist I grew bored of following the latest trends in religion for the last 5 years or so but what is happening right now is so alarming that as a human being I can't just ignore it. And even though I strongly argue that all of religion put together without exception has caused nothing but hate and discontent, I am actually willing to go out on a limb and make some strange bedfellows and make a distinction between "sane" theists and these pentecostal dominionist types. They have created an anti-intellectual religion, and I'm not sure if that's redundant or some sort of double negative that cancels itself out, but they sure as hell did it.
CD @ 61:
Sigh. Another sickie needs teh proof.
From Wiki: Schizophrenia is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction.
Religious faith is a personal choice to believe in, see and communicate with an imaginary sky genie that grants you wishes of posthumous immortality in return for spreading this delusion to other people and interrupting the natural evolution of society.
Not only do you talk to this imaginary sky genie, but you believe you are doing his bidding by reforming society to meet this imaginary sky genie's needs. You also raise your kids to believe in this sky genie as well. You also attack others for not believing in the same invisible sky genie. You also whine when others who don't believe in your invisible sky genie don't give you the automatic mystical respect you think you deserve by default.
So how exactly is religious faith NOT voluntary schizophrenia?
And yes, I can indeed lump you all together because it is impossible to distinguish between the religious faith of someone who says he is benefiting society and someone who is using religious faith to be abusive to society.
[Deleted. Off topic tit for tat]
Hey CD..I'm neither an atheist nor an agnostic.....I just think that these people using the guise of religion are trouble for our society.I don't beleive in the bible(man made lit) although some of the messages in it are good.If the fundies could ony pratice what the preach...it wouldn't be as bad...but for now...their HYPOCRITES
but your right...I may be...and I may not be.I have expeirenced first hand religous discrimination...which really confused me.the hypocricy is ovewhelming..and when you add in this admin tactics........I wan't no part of it,them and I turn my back on them.
I thought Jesus taught forgiveness....I didn't hear Luce say one word about forgiveness.....what say you about that?I realize this was a short clip...but I will watch it.I think he's preying on these folks emotions.And that is wrong.
I am sure Anampour will doa good journalistic piece. I intend to watch. I also think that we may just find that fundamentalism in religion across the world in varying faiths will appear very similar.
No one should be bothered be this Luce or religious people taking part in freedom of expression.
It is when it goes to far as Jim Jones took his religion and controlled his flock to death.
Lets face it. Religion cannot control the world as it once did. I can't be frightened that I may fall off the ends of the Earth. Yet when they intentionally get freedom of separation and use it to insist Government control Americans via religion. It is very dangerous to freedom and democracy. Catholic fighting born agains fighting mormans and so forth.
You can see that they are despeate to hate and in need of enemies to unite them and egotistically place themselves in higher human valued worth than others. This is what Rove tapped into and helped get political (for Bush). And Rove is agnostic himself. Will these Christian fundamentalists vote for the Morman Romney? Over a heart hated liberal? you bet................... Hate governs and controls them, more than they realize. Because they feel they know God and are closer than us. Their superiority allows them to hate in a Godly way. A twisted way!
With some of those quotes, Luce would definitely have fit in very well ideologically with the crowd that crucified Jesus Christ, don't you think?
Jesus Christ was accused of doing the work of the devil. He was accused of being a blasphemer and a heretic. He was accused of perverting the children of Judea with all his talk about love and forgiveness.
Yes, Luce would have fit in nicely with the killers of Jesus Christ, as would many of Luce's most ardent followers, even helping to nail Jesus' hands and feet to the cross.
This isn't about religion...it's about control....like Luce said"Shaping Society"....the only problem for Luce is this is a FREE SOCIETY...........free will.....what a concept!
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