CNN's Jeffrey Toobin - Did Senator Craig Commit Perjury In Minnesota?
During Tuesday night's "AC 360" CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin laid out a fantastic breakdown of Senator Larry Craig's bizarre claims surrounding his bathroom sex scandal. If, as Craig claims, he wasn't guilty of the charges against him and only pleaded guilty to make the scandal go away, then as Toobin puts it, he committed perjury by pleading guilty to the judge in Minnesota. Did Senator Craig feel that being a convicted criminal would make him look better than denying the charges altogether? Great analysis from Toobin...
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Toobin "...But what he did say today was, when I pleaded guilty in Minnesota, when I took an oath and swore to tell the truth to the judge when I plead guilty, I was actually committing perjury -- I was lying to the judge saying that I was guilty, when in fact, I was innocent. Now, why he would do that and why he would think somehow pleading guilty would make this matter go away? Why he would think as a United States Senator, that becoming a convicted criminal would not become news, would not be relevant to the constituents who elected me or the taxpayers who pay my salary, I have no idea why he thought that. But that's apparently what he thought."
Think Progress posted poll results which show that the majority of Idahoans want Craig to resign. Joe from Americablog has more...
Mayhaps we should introduce Sen. Craig to this guy.
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/mg...
Is he senile too?
Weaseldog @ 2:
No, penile.
Don't they have a "no contest" plea for this purpose?
He committed perjury, but to be fair he only meant to commit sodomy.
Plenty of people plead guilty when they are innocent because they have little faith in the justice system. A testimony from the accused and a police officer isn't fairly balanced.
This kind of stuff only happens in homophobic, backwards, unprogressive, socially regressive countries, where people are forced to keep their true sexuality bottled-up and hide in the closet.
Shocker! It keeps happening here in the USofA.
He didn't commit perjury. He told the truth while under oath. He is guilty of what he is accused. However, he did lie to his constituents when he told them that he didn't do anything wrong, and that he is not gay. He knows that the people that still believe in him don't pay attention to what is really going on, they go by gut feelings and family values rhetoric, so he can tell them anything, and they will be behind him. This may have worked in his favor 5 years ago, but the country is slowly waking up to these blowhards, and beginning to question the hate-filled nonsense that comes out of their mouths.
The fact that he thought pleading guilty when he was actually innocent was a good idea, should be reason enough to recall him. He basically is saying "I am too stupid too understand the legal process, but want to be a lawmaker."
I'm no genius but if I were to be arrested for something I didn't do, the first thing I would do is call a lawyer and keep my mouth shut until he could get there. I sure as hell wouldn't plead guilty just to be able to be on my way.
Doug @ 6:
That's usually true, but in this case the accused was a U.S. senator. I doubt Craig pleaded guilty because he lacked faith in the justice system.
If he was innocent but chose not to fight it, the correct plea would be "nolo contendere" or "no contest."
and can we make an assumption from here forward that anyone who supports anti-gay legislation is probably gay. I think the pattern has been clearly established.
He shoulda got hisself a lawyer. Iffen he coulda beat it himself he wouldn't have been in this mess in the first place.
Rusty Shackleford @ 11:
Just his wife.
I think he might just be stupid. Starting with what happened in a public restroom, pleading guilty and trying to hide the arrest and finally delivering the speech he did yesterday in the tone of voice that he used. It's hard to feel sympathy for someone who is yelling at you and trying to blame the media for all his troubles.
Oh, I left out one part. When you have been stopped by the cops in a public restroom and an officer said you made sexual signals to him, it would not be the brightest idea to whip out your business card that ids you as a US Senator and ask the cop, "What do you think of that?" That gets close to suggesting a bribe.
I am a gay government lawyer in Idaho (who used to be a criminal defense attorney). In many cases, I probably would have had a client fight something like this, given that there wasn't anything outwardly sexual about his behavior. However, I can say that I have no trouble believing that he is fully guilty of these charges. It has been common knowledge in Idaho's gay community and anyone remotely connected to Idaho politics that he is gay for well over 20 years. All the factors - the common knowledge, the fact that it took place somewhere where it was necessary for a sting operation to be set up and the fact that he pleaded guilty really only lead to one conclusion.
Ultimately, its just kinda sad that he had to resort to bathroom sex in order to maintain a level of success in this country, and this state. Its too bad he couldn't have just had a loving male partner and be done with it. Now, he's just having to lie even more. I'm guessing there was no purgery, just a closet case wanting to get laid during a layover.
What he has done is cheat himself out of a happy life by trying to deny who he is. He's an old man now and he's having to fight against himself, the truth and the law.
He should have used the (Bob) Allen defense and said he saw a black guy on the way into the wash room and tried to get a penis into his mouth ASAP to protect himself. Make perfect sense doesn't it?
Jesus Christ where do these people come from?
Rusty Shackleford @ 11:
Agreed, a Senator has every means at his disposal to fight a baseless charge, especially a Republican. Craig isn't one of the "little people" who are railroaded into pleading guilty or pressured to do so by an attorney who thinks it's in their best interest. He just wanted his little problem to go away. As often happens in life, the little problem goes away for a while, then comes back even meaner and stronger.
GoodbyeGOP @ 18:
That is sad and it sounds so 1950's these furtive sexual encounters....
Actually there's a part of me that does feel sorry that he must hate himself to lie like that...
But perhaps it's because I'm from California that it confuses me that Craig would take even think being gay was a problem to be hidden even from oneself...
Chris from Ohio @ 21:
Idaho
Pay attention!
Thank god he's not gay .... er.... straight .... er .... bi- .... er ....
ticktock -
What you fail to realize is that, in many parts of 'Merka, it STILL IS THE 50s!
He'll never reverse a guilty plea, it states it clearly on the paperwork he signed, and as an "intelligent" Senate member should know this...or should he?
www.ronnierayjenkins.com
Doug @ 6:
Senator's can't get a fair trial?
We are screwed!
He's urinalsexual.
Sex in a public men's room is about as disgusting as it gets. If I had shaken his hand when he was on the campaign trail I would be forced to cut off my right hand.
How can anyone trust this guys judgement? Lawmaker???
Men take their children into these. Some are even forced to take their very young daughters into a men's room if they are not accompanied by a female.
It is beyond comprehension why Lavatory Craig is so sick.
larry 'wide stance' craig... umm, isn't he a lawyer?
he is obviously scrambling to cover his decades worth of dishonesty and hypocrisy. too bad (for wide stance) that he flubs under pressure. this is beyond amateurishness, this is pure, 100%, american, pathetic.
i think the media (don't laugh) needs to revisit the claim that he was harassing pages back in the 1980's. so, wide stance, were you mark foley's mentor (example question to be used by the MSM, free of charge. use it, be my guest).
ys:
I'd imagine Craig would have more taste in men.
Anyway, as the Republicans say, it's only perjury when Clinton does it.
I'm from Minnesota, and I'm STILL waiting to hear what he was doing at our airport in the first place--was he simply changing planes?
Also, I'm still waiting to hear Sen. Norm Coleman's take on this whole thing...
Larry,
The sooner you resign, the sooner the pain and denial go away. Don't hold out like your buddy Alberto did: it will only bring more disdain to your party.
Oh, and while you're at it, you could salvage a bit of your legacy with the enviro's by passing some legislation protecting wolves in your state.
Um, are pleas given under oath? If so, then anyone ever found guilty after pleading not guilty would have committed perjury as well. Somehow I don't think so.
Look, Craig is a pervert and guilty. But this is a really stupid legal argument that you are all excited about, I'm not sure why you think it's so great.
If we considered everyone who pled out on the lesser charge, even if they thought they were not guilty, then probably half the people who have every pled guilty in this country are guilty of perjury.
Although Craig is full of crap when he says that's what he did here, based on evidence of prior conduct and evidence established in the police report, the tactic of "making this go away by pleading guilty" is as common as anything.
So is anyone who pleads guilty on a speeding ticket even though they thought they weren't speeding is also guilty of perjury? Half-assed TV legal analysis at its finest.
Perjury is not a crime as far as Republicans are concerned.
What kind of toilet training do Republicans give their kids?
Kay @ 8:
Actually, he would be in comtempt by recanting his guilty plea like he did, wouldn't he?
Would have been cool if the cop, after being handed Craig's senatorial card and the words "what do you think of that?" he would have handed him a card that said "STFU NOOB! yer busted you sick, lieing, hypocritical, sack of shit!"
I just checked Craig's website bio. No mention of his being a lawyer.
"Senator Craig was born on the family ranch near Midvale, Idaho, which was homesteaded in 1899 by his grandfather. He later served as the Idaho State President and National Vice-President of the Future Farmers of America.
After graduating from the University of Idaho where he served as Student Body President and was a member of the Delta Chi fraternity, he pursued graduate studies before returning to the family ranching business in 1971."
He could have just said that he "Can't recall".
It worked for Gonzo Fuckhead.
myiq2xu @ 12:
Agreed but he said he was trying to "plead guilty to a lesser charge." Can you plead no contest to a lesser charge in that sort of situation? I have no clue, anybody else know? And does anybody know what he was originally charged with?
Tony @ 36:
That's my point. It's not even perjury. You have to be under oath, and I don't believe pleas are under oath.
Yeah, I wondered if he plead to a lesser charge?
Lefty @ 42:
Oh, so this was the lesser charge. What he actually did, was worse than what we know?
Did he offer to pay $20 for an advil?
lucid fiction @ 41:
excuse me but ....
isn't it "Gonzo F***head Zalez?"
A republican committing PERJURY?
Shocking. Absolutely shocking!
GoodbyeGOP @ 18:
I'm not from Idaho and really didn't know much about him prior to this, so I'll take the above for what its worth. However, I think the most important thing from all of this is GoodbyeGOP's second point. That he had to resort to a public bathroom (such a 'public' one as in an airport) to find some satisfaction. And I truly do not mean that in a sarcastic way. (In no way am I defending his actions or lies.) It's a shame that anyone has to lie about their sexuality; it's sad to know that he has to hide it because society believes its "evil" or "wrong" or what-have-you.
Ah, invoking the old "damned if you did-damned if you didn't" gambit. Well Played Mr. Toobin.
M/wave @ 37:
unless it involves a blowjob and heterosexuality.
Chris from Ohio @ 21:
Jesus Christ: What do I know from republican hypocrites? And quit calling me the next time you hit your thumb with a hammer!
Josh @ 35:
The went pleading not guilty. Otherwise, the very act of entering a plea in a case would violate one's fifth amendment right not to incriminate oneself.
When entering a GUILTY plea one must allocute and that is done under penalty of perjury so someone cannot successfully do what Craig is attempting to do now, i.e. "I was just kidding! Can't you people take a joke?!"
Kay @ 8:
Uh, yeah. That's kind of the point. The question was rhetorical, in order to point out the sheer idiocy of Craig's denial yesterday.
I'd feel sorrier for the poor closeted bastard if he hadn't decided to blame the media (who hadn't been hounding him, despite his claim to the contrary) and proclaimed himself the innocent victim of a witch hunt.
No, Larry, you used to be the innocent victim of a conservative upbringing and institutionalized homophobia. Now, you're a ridiculous, angry, self-hating hypocrite.
This case made me remember the '30 days - Straight Man in a Gay World' by Morgan Spurlock where he had a young man from the Midwest come out and live in the Castro in San Francisco. At first the young man was very uncomfortable and a bit antagonistic towards the people he was around (as he viewed homosexuality as a sin) but towards the end of the 30 days he actually got up and danced in a gay bar with his shirt off (the same bar he was kicked out of early on in his thirty day stay). I wonder just how many people from the intolerant Midwest are quietly miserable because they can't just be what they are.
Is Craig on the White House visitor logs?
and.. Who was Gannon servicing with 96 trips to the Bush II White House?
Why is it whenever a president named Bush occupies the White House...
that we start hearing again these types of pediphile stories AGAIN?
--> Maybe Because people involved are NEVER brought to justice.
Franklin Coverup - The Child sex ring that reached Bush/Reagan Whitehouse
Hastert page scandal
etc.
How and Why has this all been allowed to happen for so long
...and has THIS ever influenced BAD legislation that has passed?
--> Blackmail = Coverup.
Just how does Blackmail play a role in the US Government...
A wife of a Colonel just might have some insight..
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=kay+griggs&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv
myiq2xu @ 24:
And Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky.....
Adawg @ 48:
Are you sure he had to 'resort to a public bathroom'? I think its more likely that he cruised bathrooms because he enjoys doing that.
And you don't have to be gay to know the thrill of doing it in 'dangerous' places.
As a Senator though, he has a lot to lose. That probably added to the thrill, but it also shows how reckless he can be. And to be an Anti-Gay senator that got caught is worse.
Would this have been such a spicy story if he had gotten caught with a woman? Heh, he's a Republican so that might have been even more shocking!
Swashbuckler @ 52:
The went pleading not guilty. Otherwise, the very act of entering a plea in a case would violate one's fifth amendment right not to incriminate oneself.
When entering a GUILTY plea one must allocute and that is done under penalty of perjury so someone cannot successfully do what Craig is attempting to do now, i.e. "I was just kidding! Can't you people take a joke?!"
OOOOOOOOH OK. NNNYEVERMIND
Lefty @ 42:
They dropped one charge of peeking through the door crack and he pled to the other. In most cases a defendant can plead no contest to any charge but there are exceptions.
Adawg @ 48:
He's probably hiding it because he hates it about himself. You see that a lot in the older generation and in deeply religious Christian folks. They really do think homosexuality is evil, and it torments them that they can't overcome it.
It makes me really sad to see it; I'd feel genuine pity for him if he hadn't decided to lie and blame others yesterday. As it is, I really pity his wife.
The only logical answer to Toobin's query regarding why Craig would either commit perjury and say he was guilty when he was not - or - admit to being guilty if he was not is clear. He was caught "red handed" with his slonk in the cookie jar, peering through the slits in the stall and getting his rocks off, tapping his foot to suggest attention and running his fool hands along the bottom edge of the stall. Why anyone would do any of this in his position is beyond all comprehension in the first place.
One would have to legitimately conclude that Craig is a "certifiable moron". Just for that alone he does not deserve to serve in public office and be paid for his idiocy.
Of course, he's now a criminal having broken the law so he needs to be ousted from office pronto!
The longer this fool is front and center for everyone to see his total buffoonery and criminal behavior, the more damage he is doing to the GOP. And it's already in it's illustrious "last throes"!
Weaseldog @ 57:
This fool is a bona fide pervert who has probably done this hundreds of times. Besides, to suggest that "everyone enjoys the public place "thrill", I think you are way off target and speaking mainly about yourself. Most people I know regard the rule of law and know how to keep their penis in their pants.
I do hope that someone is taking names and keeping track here though of the humongous number of Republiscum taking a dive and being caught for criminal activities. The list is becoming astounding and I know it's not over yet! Every week - another couple of republican scumbags bites the dust!
Hey now, he's a family man. A Christian man. A fearless defender of our national security. A patriot. An upstanding, moral man harassed by the newspapers. Hey, he's a Republican. So he can't be gay, he can't lie. And besides, the laws don't apply to such men.
Onward Christian soldiers march
veritas @ 63:
For the size of work you want, you may as well call it Encyclopaedia Republiscuma.
Entering a plea is not done under oath, and therefore cannot be perjury. Guilty people enter not guilty pleas all the time and are not prosecuted for perjury. Any lawyer should know this.
Here's the relevant section of Minnesota law:
609.48 PERJURY.
Subdivision 1. Acts constituting. Whoever makes a false material statement not believing it
to be true in any of the following cases is guilty of perjury and may be sentenced as provided in
subdivision 4:
(1) in or for an action, hearing or proceeding of any kind in which the statement is required
or authorized by law to be made under oath or affirmation; or
(2) in any writing which is required or authorized by law to be under oath or affirmation; or
(3) in any other case in which the penalties for perjury are imposed by law and no specific
sentence is otherwise provided.
Not great analysis. Copping a plea is not perjury. Please Toobin, shut up. No one in history has been charged for perjury for copping a plea to something to which he has been accused.
Just more red meat for dumbshits.
Does anyone know how Craig's replacement gets named? Craig is all but gone, he won't last until 2008. He might even resign this Friday as it's a three day weekend.
Smack_dab @ 68:
I believe the governor would appoint a new senator, pursuant to the 17th Amendment.
I think this guy's just another republican prevert.
Smack_dab @ 68:
Yes, in fact I do know. Its just like getting a moose tag. If you have a hunting license, you submit your name and you are in a lottery. If your name is chosen then you are in the run off election.
Robert @ 66:
Is there a lawyer here that can confirm this?
Doug @ 6:
On fux news, it would be considered far and balanced. I think. ;)
Might as well do a dead pool like bet on Craig. My bet is that he will bit the bullet on Tuesday. I see no way out for the outed one.
Robert @ 66:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_colloquy
A plea colloquy, in United States criminal procedure, is a conversation between a judge and a criminal defendant who has been sworn under oath, which must occur when the defendant enters a guilty plea in court in order for the plea to be valid.
Rusty Shackleford @ 69:
yeppers
which makes the david vitter/prostitution and the larry 'wide stance' craig/gay-trist issues so interesting--politically speaking--when you compare the inconsistent GOP reaction.
governor of idaho: Governor C.L. "Butch" Otter (r)
governor of LA: Governor Blanco (d)
Weaseldog @ 57:
Would this have been such a spicy story if he had gotten caught with a woman?
he would have had to be caught in a woman's washroom for that. For the same things he did, that wouldn't have ended well either.
An Alford plea allows a criminal defendant to plead guilty or no contest to a charge even though he may have defenses. He does not commit perjury when he enters such a plea. He may enter the plea even though he believes he is not guilty.
Toobin, who used to be a U.S. Attorney, I believe, should know this.
veritas @ 62:
Interesting how you decided that I meant to include 'everyone' in that statement. what made you think that was appropriate?
As to your last comment, can I blame Hollywood for all the films where couples are watching submarine races?
Perhaps you're just bummed that you never had a girlfriend or wife who enjoyed reaching into your pants?
gempei @ 77:
he would have had to be caught in a woman's washroom for that. For the same things he did, that wouldn't have ended well either.
You're making an assumption, say he was doing it with a mistress in public restroom?
What should be even a bigger story is that we have a closeted hypocrite homosexual in the whitehouse....
Take a look at these pics
http://mysite.verizon.net/myk15/busheyesmanhohor.jpg
Lefty @ 42:
Charged with solicitation and pleaded to disorderly conduct, I understand. Probably hoped that by the time anyone discovered a disorderly conduct conviction that the paperwork upon which it was based would be long lost. Disorderly conduct can be almost anything, like something appropriately macho like getting drunk and rowdy in a bar.
I think all Dems who run against these guys should adopt the slogan
Weaseldog @ 80:
You're making an assumption, say he was doing it with a mistress in public restroom?
Then he'd have to go to the press, his wife dressed in imitation leopard beside him, and tell the world what a bad boy he was, like David Vitter.
Craig step down
veritas @ 63:
Good point...and think about it, Larry Flynt said on the Larry King Show about a month
and a half ago, that he has the names of THIRTY(30) individuals (apparently ALL Repigs)
who visited the DC Madam's Cat House...and that he would be releasing the names at
some time in the future. Go get them Flynt...we are waiting anxiously for MORE as evidence
of the Repig's hypocricy....
gempei @ 84:
Then he'd have to go to the press, his wife dressed in imitation leopard beside him, and tell the world what a bad boy he was, like David Vitter.
Exactly. David Vitter is still in office. I don't think that Larry Craig is going to be able to finish his term.
He's still not gay....
There is more to the story. He was not just a bad boy,
he was a very bad, bad boy. Craig was doing other stuff.
He pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. What was that charge?
You can imagine. Was it masturbating at the urinal before he
went to the stall? It was more than wide stance. Larry is
getting off easy, at least legally. I'll also bet that in exchange for
a guilty plea he was promised the case would be sealed.
neil @ 88:
He's bisexual.
Every time I see Soledad I fondly recall Springsteen calling her an idiot to her face. Bruuuuce!
longnow @ 89:
I disagree....neither the court or a judge can, to my knowledge, "seal
a case" inasmuch as such is public information in these kinds of situations.
Also, he plead guiltly to a "lesser" offense...instead of lewd public behavior,
he copped out and plead to a disorderly conduct misdemenor.
Here's a recent case that I should have read before making my earlier post. It's a Minnesota case from 2000. It's basic prosposition is that, while an oath may be administered for a guilty plea, it is not required by law, and perjury may result only when the oath is required by law.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mn&vol=appunpub%5...
In some states, it is a matter of judicial practice to administer an oath for a guilty plea, but not a matter of law. The media accounts of Craig's guilty plea do not specify whether an oath was given, but I can't find anything in Minnesota criminal procedure that requires it. (I am not a Minnesota lawyer.)
What I should have written above is that oaths are not required for guilty pleas in Minnesota (as far as I can find in the Minnesota criminal procedure code), and consequently cannot form the basis of a perjury charge, even if an oath is given.
GoodbyeGOP @ 18:
"This is the hypocrisy — it's to deny legal equality to gay people, but then to engage in gay behavior," Sen. Frank said.
Is it "gay behavior" to solicit anonymous sex from a stranger?
timmm Says: GoodbyeGOP @ 18:
Ultimately, its just kinda sad that he had to resort to bathroom sex in order to maintain a level of success in this country, and this state. Its too bad he couldn’t have just had a loving male partner and be done with it. Now, he’s just having to lie even more. I’m guessing there was no purgery, just a closet case wanting to get laid during a layover.
“This is the hypocrisy — it’s to deny legal equality to gay people, but then to engage in gay behavior,” Sen. Frank said.
Is it “gay behavior” to solicit anonymous sex from a stranger?
Quote This Comment August 29th, 2007 at 2:19 PM - PDT
-----------------------------------------------------------
I guess it is- if the stranger is of the same sex.
Of course his guilty plea wasn't perjury! He was telling the truth in court.
It is now he's lying. And, he isn't under oath anymore.
"Uh, I pleading guilty because I was caught commiting lewd acts in a toilet, but I didn't really do anything wrong." It isn't perjury, just stupidity.
What I'd like to know is after seeing all the outrage over Senator Craig, why there isn't equal outrage over Senator David "diaper wearing with prostitutes" Vitter? I guess famiy values dictate that it's okay for senators to engage in fornicating with hookers but if they engage in same-gender bathroom sex it's unacceptable? The Republican party is the Hypocrite party!
Brad @ 97:
Reich-wingers are withholding their outrage over Diaper Dave (R) because LA as a Democratic Governor and if they demand Diaper Dave's (R) resignation, he'll be replaced with a Dem.
Hmmm, I think I heard someone talk about this, let me see where was it... Oh yeah, I did. Yesterday. On this site. Little props here for me.
[...] here’s video of Toobin’s commentary courtesy of Crooks and [...]
Those above that have pointed out that pleading down to a lesser charge is not perjury are spot on. Toobin should know that (as should C&L).
Craig is not a lawyer himself.
It is impossible, at least according to my experiment today, to tap your toes while simultaneously dropping a deuce (your results may vary).
Grandjester @ 101:
That's not the issue, the issue is whether he was under oath during his guilty plea.
Dr. Matt @ 102:
Agreed. As far as I can tell you don't have to be under oath or on the stand to plead guilty.
Larry Craig is just like all the other Republicans in power now. He is above the law, & no stain of Adam's sin can ever reach him. This is why I hate Bush & his cronies. They just don't get it. Of course, they feel they are God's gift to mankind. As a liberal, I get resentful of that. That is why I like the liberal blogosphere. So many of you feel the same way I do. I am not alone in the world, like I have felt a lot in the past.
Zenrage @ 103:
Um ya, When pleading guilty, ESPECIALLY if you are getting a deal, not only are you under oath but you're specifically questioned to make sure that you are aware of what you're doing and you're pleading with no reservations or under coercion.
He's making the prosecutor look like a fool and he's lied to the judge (not really, we all know he was honest in court and lying in his press conference but he's asking for it).
Our CNN friend needs to go back to law school. Pleading guilty doesn't constitute sworn testimony regarding one's own guilt. A guilty plea is merely a waiver of a jury trial, nothing more.
[...] but it would have a ways to go to beat reality for drop-dead [...]
I don't understand why Republicans are attacking him over this. It's just sex as usual for most GOPPers.
If a United States Senator does not consult an attorney about a legal matter, especially a false accusation that could result in his being jailed, is he competent to be a Senator?
Tequila @ 32:
Found in a public restroom? I mean, gay or not, who goes into a toilet to get some action? That's just gross.
Even if you like men with more taste. Or better taste.
Perjury??!!
Jeff Toobin is a complete idiot! Any schmuck who merely watches "Law and Order" knows that you are not sworn in before you plead. And the act of perjury is lying under oath.
How does one get a job on CNN? Just show up? Loyalty to the corporate image above competence and knowledge? Hmmm ... sounds like Gonzo and all the other losers in the Bush fiasco.
I think he's just guilty of a MissedDaWeiner.....
Don't know if folks saw "Far From Heaven". That movie is set in 1957. Unfortunately it's now 2007 and similar things are happening. And people who wonder where this can happen, there are stultifying suburbs all over this crazy country. And really c'mon, thos criticizing Toobin's analysis, are you kidding me? Like he said, there are very narrow circumstances under which you can retract a guilty plea-like if you were physically coerced (not that Craig wouldn't like that) or if you didn't understand English. The guy did lie to a judge. That said, in Bush's America, will there be justice?
He did it only due to circumcisions beyond his control?
Being both gay and republican (I know--gasp) I feel it should be pointed out:
Craigs actions do not represent gays, and do not represent republicans. He is a nasty pervert, who is also now a convicted criminal and should be booted out of office if not for his hyprocrisy but his blantant stupidity. Hypocrisy, however, and stupdity as well, are not a republican virtues---they are political ones, present in both sides of the aisle.
Now THAT'S fair and balanced.
I'd like to know how many more of these sick bastards are still loose in Washington preying on pages and others.
"the majority of Idahoans want Craig to resign"
Are they turning on him because he's a hypocrite and because they've come to realize that the hateful, anti-gay policies of the Republican party are harmful? No, they're turning on him because he's gay. Sad.
Oooooh yeah! Ya gotta love it!
Tony @ 36:
You generally don't plead guilty to a speeding ticket if you are not guilty because you don't get pulled over unless you are speeding. (generally speaking of course). Now, you plead guilty to a lesser speed (9 over instead of 15 or 20), but that's not perjury. That said, the analysis was indeed correct. Pleading guilty to a crime when you know (or believe) that you are innocent is, in fact, lying. Lying to a judge under oath is perjury. Period.
Period? I dunno about the letter of the law, but if the prosecutors offered the deal in order to convict him of something, should he be prosecuted for taking what may have been the safest way out (guilty to the lesser of possible charges)?
Unless he actually gave falsified details of the incident, I can't see how his plea amounts to perjury. What exactly did he admit to doing?
Its not about being gay, but when you are in the closet, aren't you a huge blackmail risk? and doesn't that make it a security threat? A US senator, with access to classified info, could be blackmailed by foreign agents and our national security could be compromised. Is anyone asking this question?
The police should use the tazer from the rr stall. Just in case the guy is prone to violence. I believe there was a complaint lodged with airport security because there was a "big bite" instead of a "big gulp" in the last stall. The police are at a disadvantage because they can't actually see the guy. So I think using the tazer at least twice or until the smell and the noise gets really bad is prudent.
I imagine some people have considered or opined on this: Isn't this just a guy being told to lean into the pitch for the sake of the losing team to distract everyone with some "bread and circus"?
I'm not saying he faked it, I believe he has serious sexual/potty training issues that are unrelated to his being a True Republican Family Supporter or even a Heterosexual...I just believe that he was under the impression, as he watched, that anyone in the governing party could do ANYTHING...steal, kill, wank off in public, do anything, and that ultimately any criticism would be said to be "partisan hatred".
This jerk was thrown overboard as soon as the Alberto Gonzales story came out. Put two and two together. The local talk radio said last February that the Gonzales stuff "had no legs", but now all they do is squeal like little teenage girls over some sex story.
Sorry teenage girls, i was only referring to some of you, and an attitude.
xx
He didn't do anything wrong? The last time I checked solicititing, what he was doing, was illegal. If cops can get hookers for doing that than why not? Solicititing is doing that whether you're doing it in a bathroom like Craig or a hooker on the downtown ally. People seem to be focusing on the hypocriasy and not the crime.
I agree with pissed off. Even on all of these law shows you see that happening all the time. You'd think a senator would know better. Or anyone in a public office job.
Everytime you see something like this you should think to yourself - what is the diversion ? Although I think there's something to this story - what's really going on that they are trying to divert our attention from ?
[...] legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin notes that Craig now says he pleaded guilty under oath to a crime he didn’t commit, and [...]
I like Toobin, but I think this argument, while fascinating, is flawed.
If what Toobin says is true, then nearly everyone who has ever pled guilty to a reduced charge (whether guilty of the original charge or not) has committed perjury. The only exception would be defendants who were not guilty of the crime originally charged but, just by coincidence, guilty of the reduced infraction.
If he is really gay, the wrong aspect for this conduct is many times determined by Christian belief (those who believe the bible is the word of God). Sexual activity between males or females is clearly stated in both the new and old testaments as SIN. Breaking the law is also clearly stated as wrong i.e. obey the laws of the land. Last I checked, sex of any kind in a public place or lying under oath is illegal.
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