Great - more evidence of the "dumbing down" of America.
I don't care if you slap a bumper sticker on Britany Spears' ass, cover her with butterscotch syrup and call her "Flappy" - if it gets attention and then generates interest, then it matters.
If I would have come across this baby in HS, it would have opened my eyes so much sooner. There should be a movement to sneak this book into schools across America. It can be a great way to get people thinking.
Great - more evidence of the "dumbing down" of America.
I don't care if you slap a bumper sticker on Britany Spears' ass, cover her with butterscotch syrup and call her "Flappy" - if it gets attention and then generates interest, then it matters.
The first two comments in this post notwithstanding...this project by the ACLU is a great way to communicate complex issues to an audience that too often doesn't get involved. Way to go, ACLU!
Great - more evidence of the "dumbing down" of America.
I don't care if you slap a bumper sticker on Britany Spears' ass, cover her with butterscotch syrup and call her "Flappy" - if it gets attention and then generates interest, then it matters.
To quote from another who responded to the "democratic backbone" thread.
“ The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. . . . “ - Carl Sagan
That being said, does Anthony Romero really need to write 'two' as '2' when attempting to 'speak to da streets?' Seriously, make a comic (no, it's not a graphic novel), make a Cliff's Notes, hell I don't care if you create an ACLU ringtone...but 'youthanizing' the ACLU by writing like Prince just makes you look fake. Kids today see through that crap and you'll lose your audience. Plus, take off the damned turtleneck, Dieter.
To quote from another who responded to the "democratic backbone" thread.
“ The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. . . . “ - Carl Sagan
Thanks for celebrating ignorance....
Wow - bad day to be one of the bourgeois today... pinkies out, fellows.
That being said, does Anthony Romero really need to write 'two' as '2' when attempting to 'speak to da streets?' Seriously, make a comic (no, it's not a graphic novel), make a Cliff's Notes, hell I don't care if you create an ACLU ringtone...but 'youthanizing' the ACLU by writing like Prince just makes you look fake. Kids today see through that crap and you'll lose your audience. Plus, take off the damned turtleneck, Dieter.
LOL - oh crap - Sagan tended to wear a turtleneck too. /me slaps forhead
Don't get me wrong - Im not knocking the ALCU. But if this was published by a conservative group all would be in agreement about the dumbing down part. Admit it.
I'm sorry, nothing says "Liberal mod hipster" more than a black sportscoat with a black turtleneck. You may as well have printed "SAN FRANCISCO VALUES" on it, for all it accepts the right's frame that the ACLU is a liberal organization. Put the man in a normal suit, or jeans and a button-down shirt. Honestly, people.
Er, yeah I don't have anything against using whatever form you want (The Simpsons and This Modern World are two absolutely brilliant satirical examples of using cartoons), but uhm, this is bad use of it. For all the reasons stated above. Real-life appearances in cartoons are never a good sign, putting it at a level with the Beatles cartoons of way back or "Hi, I'm Don Kirschner" in an Archie comic.
I'm sorry, nothing says "Liberal mod hipster" more than a black sportscoat with a black turtleneck. You may as well have printed "SAN FRANCISCO VALUES" on it, for all it accepts the right's frame that the ACLU is a liberal organization. Put the man in a normal suit, or jeans and a button-down shirt. Honestly, people.
I think you're confusing San Francisco with Berkeley. Over here in the City we prefer leather chaps and nipple rings, when we're not putting in our 9-5 down in the Financial District, doing our part to spread globalization .
Sun, 09/09/2007 - 13:21 — ctk in ky3 (not verified)
i wish that most of my college and high school books were like this manga/comic book style because not only is it a visual medium, but its geared towards the younger generation.
a lot of the japanese get their news from mangas (or so i have been told) and they use animation as a medium to get their story across. why not have it work over here?
The artwork in blue collar was better. The character development was non-existent - they jumped right into the civil rights violations and tried to push it as hard as they could.
Anthony Romero is right about one thing. He isn't trying to disguise anything. The metaphors are about as subtle as sledgehammers.
If this is as serious as the ACLU is going to get regarding the medium, then I wouldn't expect a better response than what the anti-drug campaign comics got in the mid 80's. Comics are a mixed medium between written and visual artwork. You need both to properly address your story, or in this case your politics. You can't try to hammer it all home in one poorly-written issue or its going to look forced, just as it does in these two stories.
I'm sorry, nothing says "Liberal mod hipster" more than a black sportscoat with a black turtleneck. You may as well have printed "SAN FRANCISCO VALUES" on it, for all it accepts the right's frame that the ACLU is a liberal organization. Put the man in a normal suit, or jeans and a button-down shirt. Honestly, people.
I'm afraid that this was my first thought as well...
Phooey on you naysayers. I bet all the kids will be talking about how "phat" and "ill" the new ACLU comic book is in their Myspaces and Facebooks and malt shops, and how "wack" it is to violate the civil rights of other "peeps."
Sun, 09/09/2007 - 13:52 — Thing Fish (not verified)
It's more an issue of content rather than medium. Newton's The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy was chock full of drawings. First time I ever heard of things like wobblies (IWW), Ludlow CO, Krondstadt rebellion, were through underground comic. Didn't use them as a basis for my information. More like wiki; a good (though biased) starting point of information.
Now the ACLU cartoon (you can read it online)... I could do without the super-hero. I think they would be better showing some things that the ACLU has done recently in a historical context. What the ACLU did reminds me more of Mallard Fillmore.
P.S. Watchmen is supposed to come out as a movie some time soon. Bet it's going to be 'dumbed down' to fit a 2 hour time frame.
I'm sorry, nothing says "Liberal mod hipster" more than a black sportscoat with a black turtleneck. You may as well have printed "SAN FRANCISCO VALUES" on it, for all it accepts the right's frame that the ACLU is a liberal organization. Put the man in a normal suit, or jeans and a button-down shirt. Honestly, people.
As the first openly gay president of the ACLU (as well as its first Hispanic leader) I doubt Anthony Romero has any problem reflecting what you call "San Francisco Values."
Gay rights and equality for all is pretty much the norm here at this blog as well as my own. Just saying.
I thought Watchmen were those idiots that handed out Watchtower rags.
Naw... meant the comic / graphic novel Watchmen written by Alan Moore. (Same guy who wrote V for Vendetta. Comic that is, not the dumbed down movie version. ;) )
I'm a comics creator I take umbrage with subatomicdog's comment of this being more evidence of the dumbing down of America. Is this because the ACLU is using comics as a teaching device? Comics are an excellent way to reach the tweeners and educate them on social issues and responsibility.
Some studies have shown that information disseminated through words and pictures is easier for people to retain. Something about engaging both the left side and the right side of the brain at the same time really drives the information home.
Plus isn't it benificial to teach the little tykes to be a bit more "whole-brained' in their orientation as opposed to relying either on the right or the left side of their brain?
Read the the Alphabet vs. the Goddess by Leonard Shlain for an interesting overview of the the left/right brain conflict and how that has played out in each culture. I can't recommend this book enough.
My problem with these particular strips though is that they just are not very good. 20 years ago the Christic Institute brilliantly used a graphic novel Brought To Light to construct a timeline in the events that lead to the La Penca bombing which killed several journalists which was the catalyst for the lawsuit brought against many of the key players in the Iran-contra affair. And the flipside storyShadowplay written by Alan Moore (V for Vendetta) provided the history of the secret team and their 40+ years of dirty ops and was instrumental in educating me on the background of the people involved in this scandal and their past crimes. It was intelligently written and didn't pander to its target audience which I cannot say for these strips.
I'm a comics creator I take umbrage with subatomicdog's comment of this being more evidence of the dumbing down of America. Is this because the ACLU is using comics as a teaching device? Comics are an excellent way to reach the tweeners and educate them on social issues and responsibility.
Some studies have shown that information disseminated through words and pictures is easier for people to retain. Something about engaging both the left side and the right side of the brain at the same time really drives the information home.
Plus isn't it benificial to teach the little tykes to be a bit more "whole-brained' in their orientation as opposed to relying either on the right or the left side of their brain?
Read the the Alphabet vs. the Goddess by Leonard Shlain for an interesting overview of the the left/right brain conflict and how that has played out in each culture. I can't recommend this book enough.
My problem with these particular strips though is that they just are not very good. 20 years ago the Christic Institute brilliantly used a graphic novel Brought To Light to construct a timeline in the events that lead to the La Penca bombing which killed several journalists which was the catalyst for the lawsuit brought against many of the key players in the Iran-contra affair. And the flipside storyShadowplay written by Alan Moore (V for Vendetta) provided the history of the secret team and their 40+ years of dirty ops and was instrumental in educating me on the background of the people involved in this scandal and their past crimes. It was intelligently written and didn't pander to its target audience which I cannot say for these strips.
Thanks for taking the time to write all these words to prove your intellectual prowess but I never said a WORD about the medium. I was commenting on what I had thought of the graphic novel after reading it. Being a big fan of Simpsons, Watchmen, anime, etc. I very well know that it can be very intelligent and effective medium.
Wow. So I clicked on the graphic to see more. I grew up collecting comic books and watched the medium mature into something more than pre-teen mind candy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the graphic novel form to communicate issues and principles. In fact, it's a GREAT idea--if you do it well.
Unfortunately, what I just read by following the link was an inarticulate, incoherent and poorly drawn piece of CRAP. I wouldn't have liked it or gotten anything useful from it when I was 12 or anytime between then and now. I hope they didn't actually pay money for the creation of that graphic turd.
It doesn't help either, that supposedly there's two ('a question of obligation' and 'blue collar') stories there, but when you click on the second link it just brings up the same story a second time. Not only BAD, but broken. I mourn for thee, ACLU.
LOL - I can see it now. Im going to get a comic book WRITER taking umbrage with me.......
It seemed that you were using the medium as an example of the dumbing down of America and weren't clear on that distinction however you clarified your point. Thanks. As I said earlier.... I agree that the result is pretty wretched and makes me cringe reading it. It's a poor use of the medium to get your message across. It reminds me of those wretched 70's cartoons that provide the moral at the end of the episode in case you were too dense to pick it up earlier. God, I fucking hated those.
It doesn't help either, that supposedly there's two ('a question of obligation' and 'blue collar') stories there, but when you click on the second link it just brings up the same story a second time. Not only BAD, but broken. I mourn for thee, ACLU.
Don't click on the "read it" link under the title. Click on the "Blue Collar" title graphic itself, and the correct comic will pop up.
And contrary to popular opinion, that isn't comprised exclusively of tye-died boxers, an xBox and a baggy of sticks and stems.
I encourage others to think seriously about creating/amending their wills to leave something to the ACLU. It's probably one of the most important charities of them all.
Wed, 09/12/2007 - 03:59 — Jeff Shirley (not verified)
I think the first comic, the one about the lawyer, was confusing as all hell. And I don't think I like the message it puts out about priorities and all that. If the message is that we should be concerned about matters of civil liberties instead of matters of potential threats and safety, then you'll find a lot of agreement with me. But the example in the comic is not representative of that. Miss Billionaire heiress is not "potentially in danger." She is in danger. And Mr. Protest Sign Guy is not in any real danger. I mean, the government is not going to hang him in 42 hours.
Allow me an example. Say you have a guy with a gun pointing at your family or at your girlfriend/boyfriend/lifemate/whatever or even at some random girl (but pretty, gotta keep the convention :D), and he says he'll kill her in 10 minutes, and on the other side of the room, you have a corrupt FBI agent pulling a payday loan scam on a couple of rural hayseeds. Which will you solve first? Most of us, I bet even most ACLU members would solve the gun guy first and then tackle the interview-and-paperwork method of taking down the payday loan guy. This comic appears to want to get the payday loan guy first and then attempt to resolve immediate danger. It runs counter to our natures. This is speaking strictly from a comic book sense. The hero just isn't much of one, and since he kinda sucks at it, what he supports is dragged down with it. IT doens't help that the comic presents a false choice too.
I think the other one's better though. At least its plot works.
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Great - more evidence of the "dumbing down" of America.
In related events, Americans United for Separation of Church and State releases Barry Lynn rap video
subatomicdog @ 1:
I don't care if you slap a bumper sticker on Britany Spears' ass, cover her with butterscotch syrup and call her "Flappy" - if it gets attention and then generates interest, then it matters.
Go ACLU!
there is nothing wrong with using a medium like this to reach people.
one of the best books ive read in years is Addicted to War:
http://www.amazon.com/Addicted-War-U-s-Cant-Militarism/dp/1904859011
If I would have come across this baby in HS, it would have opened my eyes so much sooner. There should be a movement to sneak this book into schools across America. It can be a great way to get people thinking.
Bud @ 3:
Bet you watch alot of "reality" TV too.....LOL
The first two comments in this post notwithstanding...this project by the ACLU is a great way to communicate complex issues to an audience that too often doesn't get involved. Way to go, ACLU!
• Detox from Fox: Starve The Beast
subatomicdog @ 5:
Only 'Design Star', sweetie.
To quote from another who responded to the "democratic backbone" thread.
“ The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. . . . “ - Carl Sagan
Thanks for celebrating ignorance....
The Evolution of the Species
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2007-09-10-fat_evolution.jpg
L.A. Confidential @ 9:
From Spear to Big Gulp
Never trust a man in a turtleneck.
That being said, does Anthony Romero really need to write 'two' as '2' when attempting to 'speak to da streets?' Seriously, make a comic (no, it's not a graphic novel), make a Cliff's Notes, hell I don't care if you create an ACLU ringtone...but 'youthanizing' the ACLU by writing like Prince just makes you look fake. Kids today see through that crap and you'll lose your audience. Plus, take off the damned turtleneck, Dieter.
subatomicdog @ 8:
Wow - bad day to be one of the bourgeois today... pinkies out, fellows.
NationalKato @ 11:
LOL - oh crap - Sagan tended to wear a turtleneck too. /me slaps forhead
Any graphic language in the graphic novel?
L.A. Confidential @ 10:
The other two were indubitably gay.
Good way to reach youngsters. Before they become tweens and the Corps take over their minds completely.
Don't get me wrong - Im not knocking the ALCU. But if this was published by a conservative group all would be in agreement about the dumbing down part. Admit it.
Reminds me of those chick religous tracts. I'm all weirded out now.
amgriffin @ 18:
We still have the ability to shut off the Telescreens.
Look at this load of doo
AP - 2 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Gen. David Petraeus told Congress on Monday he envisions the withdrawal of roughly 30,000 U.S. combat troops from Iraq by next summer.
Wow, we're going to withdraw the Surge troops we just sent over there.
You know what stupid is. Guys like this that think the public is stupid enough to buy this crap. Which of course there is.
I'm sorry, nothing says "Liberal mod hipster" more than a black sportscoat with a black turtleneck. You may as well have printed "SAN FRANCISCO VALUES" on it, for all it accepts the right's frame that the ACLU is a liberal organization. Put the man in a normal suit, or jeans and a button-down shirt. Honestly, people.
L.A. Confidential @ 19:
I always thought chick's tracks should come with a centrefold.
Considering the text, probably an S&M shot.
I like this. Kudos to the ACLU
Er, yeah I don't have anything against using whatever form you want (The Simpsons and This Modern World are two absolutely brilliant satirical examples of using cartoons), but uhm, this is bad use of it. For all the reasons stated above. Real-life appearances in cartoons are never a good sign, putting it at a level with the Beatles cartoons of way back or "Hi, I'm Don Kirschner" in an Archie comic.
jxn @ 21:
I think you're confusing San Francisco with Berkeley. Over here in the City we prefer leather chaps and nipple rings, when we're not putting in our 9-5 down in the Financial District, doing our part to spread globalization .
i wish that most of my college and high school books were like this manga/comic book style because not only is it a visual medium, but its geared towards the younger generation.
a lot of the japanese get their news from mangas (or so i have been told) and they use animation as a medium to get their story across. why not have it work over here?
Wasn't there a 9/11 graphic novel out a few years back? I think Cheney was a robot.
The artwork in blue collar was better. The character development was non-existent - they jumped right into the civil rights violations and tried to push it as hard as they could.
Anthony Romero is right about one thing. He isn't trying to disguise anything. The metaphors are about as subtle as sledgehammers.
If this is as serious as the ACLU is going to get regarding the medium, then I wouldn't expect a better response than what the anti-drug campaign comics got in the mid 80's. Comics are a mixed medium between written and visual artwork. You need both to properly address your story, or in this case your politics. You can't try to hammer it all home in one poorly-written issue or its going to look forced, just as it does in these two stories.
Bud @ 27:
Amazing Spider-Man #36 did an excellent job on the subject.
jxn @ 21:
I'm afraid that this was my first thought as well...
Phooey on you naysayers. I bet all the kids will be talking about how "phat" and "ill" the new ACLU comic book is in their Myspaces and Facebooks and malt shops, and how "wack" it is to violate the civil rights of other "peeps."
It's more an issue of content rather than medium. Newton's The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy was chock full of drawings. First time I ever heard of things like wobblies (IWW), Ludlow CO, Krondstadt rebellion, were through underground comic. Didn't use them as a basis for my information. More like wiki; a good (though biased) starting point of information.
Now the ACLU cartoon (you can read it online)... I could do without the super-hero. I think they would be better showing some things that the ACLU has done recently in a historical context. What the ACLU did reminds me more of Mallard Fillmore.
P.S. Watchmen is supposed to come out as a movie some time soon. Bet it's going to be 'dumbed down' to fit a 2 hour time frame.
32 Thing Fish
I thought Watchmen were those idiots that handed out Watchtower rags.
jxn @ 21:
As the first openly gay president of the ACLU (as well as its first Hispanic leader) I doubt Anthony Romero has any problem reflecting what you call "San Francisco Values."
Gay rights and equality for all is pretty much the norm here at this blog as well as my own. Just saying.
I must say, I quite like the shading on Romero's face in the second frame. Go back and take a second look at it. Interesting.
ysbaddaden @ 33:
Naw... meant the comic / graphic novel Watchmen written by Alan Moore. (Same guy who wrote V for Vendetta. Comic that is, not the dumbed down movie version. ;) )
I'm a comics creator I take umbrage with subatomicdog's comment of this being more evidence of the dumbing down of America. Is this because the ACLU is using comics as a teaching device? Comics are an excellent way to reach the tweeners and educate them on social issues and responsibility.
http://www.humblecomics.com/comicsedu/strengths.html
Some studies have shown that information disseminated through words and pictures is easier for people to retain. Something about engaging both the left side and the right side of the brain at the same time really drives the information home.
http://www.boxesandarrows.com/view/comics-not-just-for
Plus isn't it benificial to teach the little tykes to be a bit more "whole-brained' in their orientation as opposed to relying either on the right or the left side of their brain?
http://www.funderstanding.com/right_left_brain.cfm
http://www.mtsu.edu/~studskl/hd/learn.html
Read the the Alphabet vs. the Goddess by Leonard Shlain for an interesting overview of the the left/right brain conflict and how that has played out in each culture. I can't recommend this book enough.
http://www.alphabetvsgoddess.com/site/index.html
My problem with these particular strips though is that they just are not very good. 20 years ago the Christic Institute brilliantly used a graphic novel Brought To Light to construct a timeline in the events that lead to the La Penca bombing which killed several journalists which was the catalyst for the lawsuit brought against many of the key players in the Iran-contra affair. And the flipside storyShadowplay written by Alan Moore (V for Vendetta) provided the history of the secret team and their 40+ years of dirty ops and was instrumental in educating me on the background of the people involved in this scandal and their past crimes. It was intelligently written and didn't pander to its target audience which I cannot say for these strips.
rawdale @ 37:
Thanks for taking the time to write all these words to prove your intellectual prowess but I never said a WORD about the medium. I was commenting on what I had thought of the graphic novel after reading it. Being a big fan of Simpsons, Watchmen, anime, etc. I very well know that it can be very intelligent and effective medium.
Read it and you will understand.
I swear people are SO touchy these day. LOL
LOL - I can see it now. Im going to get a comic book WRITER taking umbrage with me.......
Wow. So I clicked on the graphic to see more. I grew up collecting comic books and watched the medium mature into something more than pre-teen mind candy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the graphic novel form to communicate issues and principles. In fact, it's a GREAT idea--if you do it well.
Unfortunately, what I just read by following the link was an inarticulate, incoherent and poorly drawn piece of CRAP. I wouldn't have liked it or gotten anything useful from it when I was 12 or anytime between then and now. I hope they didn't actually pay money for the creation of that graphic turd.
It doesn't help either, that supposedly there's two ('a question of obligation' and 'blue collar') stories there, but when you click on the second link it just brings up the same story a second time. Not only BAD, but broken. I mourn for thee, ACLU.
Why is it that politicos and organic food producers have the worst sense of design aesthetics?
subatomicdog @ 39:
It seemed that you were using the medium as an example of the dumbing down of America and weren't clear on that distinction however you clarified your point. Thanks. As I said earlier.... I agree that the result is pretty wretched and makes me cringe reading it. It's a poor use of the medium to get your message across. It reminds me of those wretched 70's cartoons that provide the moral at the end of the episode in case you were too dense to pick it up earlier. God, I fucking hated those.
Card-carrying member of the ACLU and proud of it.
The ACLU does vital legal work.
...
Malixe @ 40:
Don't click on the "read it" link under the title. Click on the "Blue Collar" title graphic itself, and the correct comic will pop up.
In my will, I leave my entire estate to the ACLU.
And contrary to popular opinion, that isn't comprised exclusively of tye-died boxers, an xBox and a baggy of sticks and stems.
I encourage others to think seriously about creating/amending their wills to leave something to the ACLU. It's probably one of the most important charities of them all.
It would be more effective if the guy didn't dress like a supervillain..
And on the other side of the spectrum is this horrid piece of comic book propaganda from Northrop Grumman. The way this is written makes the ACLU comic read like Ulysses.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2007/09/northrop-grummans-...
My contribution to the ACLU in a PSA I made a few years ago now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjkNW1vnZZs
That is fucking hideous. Unreadable. Awful art. Terrible lettering. Lousy page design. Why bother?
AConfederacyofDunces @ 43:
Me too, and I think this is a lousy way for them to spend our money.
I think the first comic, the one about the lawyer, was confusing as all hell. And I don't think I like the message it puts out about priorities and all that. If the message is that we should be concerned about matters of civil liberties instead of matters of potential threats and safety, then you'll find a lot of agreement with me. But the example in the comic is not representative of that. Miss Billionaire heiress is not "potentially in danger." She is in danger. And Mr. Protest Sign Guy is not in any real danger. I mean, the government is not going to hang him in 42 hours.
Allow me an example. Say you have a guy with a gun pointing at your family or at your girlfriend/boyfriend/lifemate/whatever or even at some random girl (but pretty, gotta keep the convention :D), and he says he'll kill her in 10 minutes, and on the other side of the room, you have a corrupt FBI agent pulling a payday loan scam on a couple of rural hayseeds. Which will you solve first? Most of us, I bet even most ACLU members would solve the gun guy first and then tackle the interview-and-paperwork method of taking down the payday loan guy. This comic appears to want to get the payday loan guy first and then attempt to resolve immediate danger. It runs counter to our natures. This is speaking strictly from a comic book sense. The hero just isn't much of one, and since he kinda sucks at it, what he supports is dragged down with it. IT doens't help that the comic presents a false choice too.
I think the other one's better though. At least its plot works.
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