The Iraq War Report: Petraeus's Opening Statement
By Nicole Belle Sunday Sep 09, 2007 3:46pm
(Video courtesy of PoliticsTV.com)
ThinkProgress, DailyKos, and AmericaBlog are doing some fact-checking against the general's claims.
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The colorful charts, the same old rhetoric, I'm surprised they didn't wait to do this until tomorrow, the anniversary of 9/11. These guys just aren't thinking hard enough on how to use their propaganda more effectively.
the questions being asked by the dems are pathetic!
Jeez! He's saying the GAO report is essentially correct, but it's data only comes up to a date from five weeks ago. And gosh darn it, the last five weeks have seen an improvement of a gazillion billion percent. Flowers are blooming in the desert, and peace colored rainbows are raining democracy all over the nation.
Seen it all before - from Vietnam days to now. The democrats showing so far in this farce is not worthy of my vote in future elections.
They regained the "majority" in The House by virtue of their rhetoric on ending the war. They are, however, just like the little boy who says whatever his parents want to hear in the weeks before Christmas - just so he can get the presents he has requested.
I am ashamed of our country's leadership - for their lies, greed, and blood lust, all in the name of some mythical ideology. They are traitors all - to a man (woman).
Petraeus is going to earn a huge income from the defense industry when he retires. He's doing a great job in insuring that weapons sales continue to increase.
Has anyone noticed the demonization pattern of MoveOn.org?
Petraeus opening words
Good evening ladies and germs.
I know you're out there, I can hear you breathing.
Okay men, open fire.
...I mean of those who are trying to demonize MoveOn.
How many times did he mention Iran? How many times did he mention Saudi Arabia?
didn't 7 us soldiers die today?
AQI EVERYWHERE...which really means 2% tops. the 98%...lets not talk about it...
sharkcellar @ 6:
Yes, they are all dirty long haired hippies that keep their allegiance to the Flag,
and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
What you will see is a troop decrease in Iraq. Not enough to pull out, but enough to ensure that the troops in Iraq cannot handle the workload. As the 2008 election fires up, more and more troops will be dying due to being "overwhelmed" and suddenly we'll see a rise in Al-Quieda and Insurgents, maybe even some figure head that everyone is whispering to be, "Worse than Osama, worse than Saddam". There will be another huge push to get tough on terror when finally, either by a second American terrorist attack or by a large amount of American troops dying in Iraq, Republicans will point out the losses of the withdrawal, the supposed success of a potential Surge, and how America is not defending itself enough from the real threat. Just enough fear.
#4-Ex-Canuck
Very well said. What is happening in Iraq in relation to Vietnam merits the phrase "The more things change, the more they remain the same." By their actions the Democrats prove that there is little difference, if any, between the two major political parties in this country. Radio stations across the country should be re-releasing Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction" which, if I recall, referred to violence happening, even in 1965, to the Middle East.
We may be dirty fucking hippies, but that doesn't change the fact that we already knew what he was going to tell us.
We were right. So the only weapon they have left is name calling.
Why doesn't someone ask why the Brits hauled ass?
I hope these promises are in writing?? If not, then "no deal".
Even with the promises in writing, that would only be if Betray-us hasn't fudged all of the numbers he's citing and the case he is making isn't blown out of the water totally when the fact checkers return with the real facts.
I think Congress needs to make Betray-us and the Chimp really dance the jig before agreeing to fund even $l.00 more to this amoral, highly illegal invasion which is clearly Bush's legacy - Bush's War - Bush's devastating failure.
Just more bought and paid for Bullshit, White House lies.
Weaseldog @ 12:
That's right and it's a hellova lot more than I can say for the reichwing neo-fascists who are running this country right now - who have trampled our civil rights and used the constitution as toilet paper. They are traitors to this country and have become our "enemy within". Bush puppets, pedophiles, liars, and charlatans....all of them.
Don't be absurd: Vote for a third. No one in Congress today is representing the people and it's time for "the people's party" to spring up. With the dems at 38% and the Independents at 35%, the Repubs are the minority party.
It is pretty simple. Progress or no progress. The country has to decide what the commitment will be to Iraq going forward? What are we willing to sacrifice to help bring stability to Iraq? What cost to what benefit?
The cost will be more lives, more money, and more distraction from the larger war on terror or potentially continuing to create more enemies of the U.S.? The benefit could be a more stable Iraq or at least keeping the lid on a larger explosion.
The question is how long will we have to be there keeping the lid on things?
With the long-awaited surge progress report from General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker due beginning today, Perrspectives has updated its Iraq Document Center. The repository includes the latest news, statistics, key reports and other essential materials surrounding the Iraq war and its run-up.
For the overview, see:
"Required Reading for Petraeus, Crocker Testimony."
Petraeus keeps singling out a single week to "prove" progress. He's hoping the audience doesn't know it's an outlier.
.
Well, you gotta give him credit, I haven't heard him say, "I don't recall". At least not yet.
This has been a giant waste of time for everyone concerned. The only thing good to come out of it was that MoveOn got a lot of attention paid to their ad. They couldn't have afforded this much tv time.
Us dirty old hippies have been right all along, no matter how old or dirty we are. ;)
Blah Blah Blah. Progress. Blah Blah Blah. Tide is turning. Blah Blah Blah. 6 more months. Blah Blah Blah. Run out the clock
It makes me want to puke
BUSH'S BE-TRAY-US REPORT LIES
test test
Shouldn't these stooges report to the sovereign government of Free Eyerack and let them make decisions? Oh, I see...
Noting the degradation of our ALL VOLUNTEER ARMED FORCES, unless the congress is willing to pull them back from this military and strategic blunder of unprecedented scale, we will need a draft.
Can anyone else see this? Doesn't the congress get briefed on this?
Oh yes, body counts. Let us stay because I never really paid attention to the body counts in Viet Nam and I can make up for it 40 years later. The more things change ......the more the shit smells the same.
Shame on you General, may the blood of the war dead pour over your head and stain your soul .....may God have mercy on you.
baby jesus listened to the opening statement
baby jesus immediately considered a large asteroid or gigantic solar flare to put an end to this nonsense.
what a fucking crock of shit, what is all that shit on their chest going to do to help us
Paraphrasing Petraeus: "We cannot kill all those we are being attacked by, we have to reconcile with our enemies not our friends".
This makes the most sense of much that has been said.
I say redeploy immediately - DO NOT STAY ANY LONGER - the white house must apologize and make reparations further promising neutrality in Iraq's further development on their own merits (such as they are) if Iran wants to get involved so be it.
After all: Sadr's own words, if you believe them or not:
"The occupiers must go, and then the democratic process can start" in Iraq," said Sadr.
Sadr was speaking the day after Allawi told the militia to give up and leave Najaf on a surprise visit to the city.
He also rejected an earlier invitation by Allawi to run in elections scheduled for early next year.
And he dismissed any participation in politics until Iraq "is free and independent."
Sadr said those who wanted to go could do so, he was not forcing anyone to resist, adding, "Those who have forced us to fight are the occupiers of our country."
Sadr further called on the Iraqi police and army not to fight against their "brothers" and the Baghdad government to be "on the side of the people and not use the same weapons as Saddam Hussein', the former dictator ousted by invading US-led forces last year.
Asked about negotiations to end the fighting, Sadr demanded, "What negotiations can there be when the war and bombardments continue?"
"We cannot mix democracy and occupation," he said. "Let us finish with the occupation."
Sadr spokesman Hazim Al-A'areji launched a scathing attack on Allawi, accusing him of heading an agent government of the occupation and of inciting the people against Sadr, in an attempt to eradicate him from the Iraqi political theater.
"We will not lay down our arms until our country is free. This a war of liberation that was imposed on us by the occupiers."
Americans have been operating under the mistaken notion that America's wars are just and for the defense of mankind. That is - if we are in a war - it must be just and noble. To many americans, war is a noble thing.
So the questions to these people involve methods. The question is rarely why. Why to them is obvious and goes without saying. War is after all great, noble, just - revolutionary war, civil war (slavery), WWI, WWII - it just doesnt get much better than that. Killing is good - when we do the killing.
This has the effect of making the US a culture of death. We honor, award, reward, certify, celebrate death and killing.
It was baffling to many americans that vietnam - and now iraq - were not only lost but that somehow justice, nobility, honor and democracy didnt follow us onto the battlefield; like spring flowers onto a field awakening from a long winters slumber simply by our presence.
How can a culture of death see war as anything other than wonderful?
Unless and until this country begins asking the question WHY - which not even this country's elected officials would ask - is there even a remote possibility of this country understand what war really is and why this country has committed a great and terrible crime against humanity.
(unedited)
so all they have to do is win the hearts and minds of %95 of the rest of the country and the violence might start going down like in Anbar? My prediction is that they will Iraq as a tool for the repubs to try and win the next election. They want the ballot question in peoples heads to be... vote repub = "progress" in Iraq | vote dems = soldier's died for nothing.
Petraeus: AQ themselves say that Iraq is the central front of the war on terror
Questioner: Maybe they are lying.
Best line of the day so far.
THEY'RE TRYING TO BREAK THE U.S. ECONOMY
In Their Own Words: Terrorist Quotes:
(exerpts)
"Jihad against America will continue, economically and militarily. By the grace of Allah, America is in retreat and its economy is developing cracks ever-increasingly. But more attacks are required. I advise the youth to find more of America's economic hubs. The enemy can be defeated by attacking its economic centers."
Osama bin Laden, undated
"The 11 September attacks were not targeted at women and children. The real targets were America's icons of military and economic power."
Osama bin Laden, 8 Nov 01
"If their economy is destroyed, they will be busy with their own affairs rather than enslaving the weak peoples. It is very important to concentrate on hitting the US economy through all possible means."
Osama bin Laden, 27 Dec 01
"The economic bleeding is continuing to date, but it requires further strikes. The young people should make an effort to look for the key pillars of the US economy. The key pillars of the enemy should be struck, God willing."
Osama bin Laden, 27 Dec 01
"We will also aim to continue, by the permission of Allah, the destruction of the American economy."
Ayman al-Zawahiri, Sept 02
"They shook America's throne and struck at the US economy in the heart, thanks to God the Almighty....Those blessed attacks, as they themselves admitted, have inflicted on the New York and other markets more than a trillion dollars in losses."
Osama bin Laden, 27 Dec 01
Jihad is apparently against war mongers, legislators, and the rich elite...
So judging what OBL said in 2001 Jihadists are not "coming again" to get our families as Dumbya stated most recently, but the Jihad is against war mongers, legislators, and the rich elite:
"The 11 September attacks were not targeted at women and children. The real targets were America's icons of military and economic power."
Osama bin Laden, 8 Nov 01
And the trolls are out like I've never seen to push the lie!
Absolutely wild!
This country has gone to the dogs, and all they do is sniff each others rears.
...and BushCo is helping them:
Economy collapse coming
U.S. DEFAULTS!
United States has breached the national debt ceiling; set by law.
This event is posted on the U.S. Treasury Department Web Site for all the world to see!
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm
Normally, the U.S. Congress would simply raise the Debt Limit; they haven't done that because they cannot get anyone to buy our debt anymore!
Here's what is happening right now: If they raise the debt limit authorizing the Treasury to sell more T-Notes and Bonds, but no one buys them, it will force the government to monetize the debt again - print money for the debt. If it does that PRIOR to March, the Federal Reserve will have to report how much cash gets put into the economy. This is why the Federal Reserve announced a few months ago it would STOP reporting the M3 Money supply in March. They all knew this day of financial ruin would hit; it just hit before they expected.
Get your cash out of the bank and store it in a safe at home. Liquidate any stock market holdings you may have. Get your silver, gold, cash and guns out of your safe deposit boxes NOW. Don't wait even a few days. Get it out NOW!
COLLAPSE OF U.S. ECONOMY IMMINENT
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=9995
U.S. IN TECHNICAL DEFAULT
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/01/30/us-government-in-technical-de...
TRADE DEFICIT HITS ALL-TIME RECORD
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/10/ap/business/main672878.shtml
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
-- Prologue:
Should USA attack Iran, they will hear from Russia and China...maybe India, Pakistan and North Korea.
USA cannot stand to bear yet another useless and counterproductive war...if it continues to play war games, the nation's economy will be the first casualty.
So, where is the written report?
Why isn't Congress demanding what they originally asked for?
Perhaps because they are part of this little dog and pony show?
Ex-Canuck @ 4:
So very true.
The parallels to Vietnam are striking, and I've said since the beginning that this will be another Vietnam. We were in Vietnam to stop the commies, else SE Asia would fall and they would be at our doorstep. In Iraq, we have to fight the terrorists there so we don't fight them here. The Communists of Old are now the Terrorists. Interchangable.
In Vietnam, we had to train the South Vietnamese army so it could take up the fight (after which we would leave). Iraq? Yep, we need to train that army before we leave so they can fight the insurgents. Naturally, it never happened with the S. Vietnamese army, and it isn't happening in Iraq, either.
Early on it was an insurgency in Vietnam....as it is in Iraq......which later led to more open warfare.
The government of S. Vietnam was weak and corrupt......ditto the government in Iraq.
The war was not winable in Vietnam....the same in Iraq.
The US government, year after year, talked about the progress being made in Vietnam, with "peace is at hand" later on. Iraq? Just listen to Bush and Petraeus.
on and on it goes.......
For those under about 45 years of age, who never watched the catastrophe of Vietnam unfolding year after year, go back to your history books if you still believe the lies from your government and generals.
Anyone over 45 years old either wasn't paying attention in the 1960's and 70's or Nixon is still the greatest president ever to them. LOL
This report is just the same ol' same ol' crap that will keep being repeated over and over until next summer and beyond...wash, rinse, repeat.
skycypher @ 28:
For those of you that still don't get it, I'll lay it out for you:
MoveOn can buy more ads, the Dems in congress can scream and we can march a million strong through the streets but one thing is clear... WE AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE...FOR YEARS TO COME. We're building the biggest embassy we have in the world there and those are permanent bases in Iraq. Get it? P-E-R-M-A-N-E-N-T.
Johnny2Bad @ 38:
That can and must be stopped if we are to return to mutual trust levels of national reconciliation.
Close the embassy(ies) aor give them to the new government, but GET OUT - redeploy to Afghanistan!
Erroll @ 14:
Not to mention Monster by Steppenwolfe. So many of the songs from that era apply again.
Petrayus as much as admitted that the troop reduction is because we are losing our ability to prosecute the war.
I find it interesting how they keep repeating the idea that Anbar is a success, when our great strategy there is to give money and weapons to the same armed "insurgent" groups that were killing Americans a few months ago. Some would call that "buying protection." Sure, they will happily tell us that the people that they are killing are "al Queda" rather than unfortunates who have made the mistake of not buying protection from them.
How about a mass exodus out of the US and start warning the other countries that there are nothing but loons and nutters here so beware?
Seems like the only alternative left to grabbing a flag and joining in.
skycypher @ 32:
skycypher @ 39:
How? We don't have a frigging Army any more! You cannot keep endlessly putting the same troops and equipment into combat; the human mind and body can only take so much abuse. At some point, the troops will just revolt.
Noted on the post; "ThinkProgress, DailyKos, and AmericaBlog are doing some fact-checking against the general’s claims",
Is Petraus under oath??
If not, why not?
If so, need I say more?
a guy @ 43:
4 More Years...
4 More Years...
Mayan Calendar will come to light and this will all be moot anyways....
George @ 44:
Then we must use the UN as it is supposed to be used for peacekeeping purposes:
Einstein crusaded for a potent international organization to adjudicate all conflicts between nations. Comprising representatives from every constituent nation, the organization would be empowered by a constitution approved by all. The unequivocal support of the nuclear powers was essential to the viability of this world government.
So was the big stick. With nothing but paper bullets, the organization could be subverted by recalcitrant nations. All member nations were voluntarily to divest themselves of their armed forces and to contribute soldiers and weaponry to the organization. It alone would have the disposition of offensive weapons.
Nations would mutually inspect methods and installations for the production of weapons. They would freely exchange technical and scientific information with military ramifications.
Nobody here replied to that post. But I submit that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad puts it rightly regarding the United Nations Security Council, in both speeches presented in this thread: "The US administration does not accept accountability before any organization, institution or council. The US administration has undermined the credibility of international organizations, particularly the United Nations and its Security Council." He holds that small countries like his own are undermined by the USA and other nuclear powers who have sway in the UN and particularly in the Security Council's meetings and rulings. I also presented in an earlier post on this thread a link to the unfair sanctions etc., imposed upon many countries accept Israel.
"United Nations Security Council Resolutions Currently Being Violated by Countries Other than Iraq" by Stephen Zunes:
http:www.fpif.org/commentary/2002/0210unres.html
UN Security Council Resolutions Being Violated by U.S. Allies
http://www.accuracy.org/article.php?articleId=1026
I think Einstein has a very good solution to our current dilemma.
Einstein encountered massive resistance in his adopted country. Many Americans in the ‘40s and ‘50s, as now, distrusted a world government, especially one invested with military might. They feared unscrupulous powermongers would bend it to their own malevolent wills and, in the process, undermine American interests at home and abroad. Stripped of its puissant firepower, the nation couldn’t protect itself from these forces for ill. We would lose our liberty, independence, prosperity, unfettered pursuit of happiness. We would no longer be a moral beacon to benighted lands.
Why, indeed, should America relinquish its geopolitical and economic hegemony by disarming itself?
Einstein had a simple—some will say simplistic—answer.
America seeks peace, does it not? “A person or a nation,” Einstein wrote, “can be considered peace loving only if it is ready to cede its military force to the international authorities and to renounce every attempt to achieve its interests abroad by the use of force. Peace can never be secured by threats, but only by an honest attempt to create mutual trust.”
The UN must be strengthened NOT simply used whenever it suits the superpower to manuipulate it; demanding excuses for pre-emptive attacks against other soverign nations.
Johnny2Bad @ 38:
Johnny2Bad, you are very very correct.
Don't count on the Dems......this isn't the same country you were born in. You are now taxed and NOT represented.
Those thinking the election next year (IF we have one) will change anything have their heads in the sand.
David Betray Us has Scoliosis from carrying the junta's water
Skycipher@48: exactly right, but the UN's credibility in the region has been completely shot by the Bush administration's actions. That was not an accident, that group made hating the U.N. a profession.
George @ 51:
Agreed. The powers of this current US administration are acting under duress from the forces of our shadow government.
"There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself."
- Senator Daniel K. Inouye
Don't look at the embassy as signs that we are planning to stay there. We might have been thinking that once long ago, but the true reason for the embassy is the 1/2 billion in no-bid contracts that the contractors got for it.
If you have any questions about our actions in Iraq, there is really one simple answer. It is all about the money. Humungous fortunes are being reaped, typically by right wingers. Some well-connected RWer with a little computer background and a couple of thousand in the bank is now a billionaire because she became the contractor to supply computers to the military. That is what wars do.
When you wonder why progressives will be outspent in the upcoming campaigns, look no further. It is worth it to these people to toss in %1 of their fortunes into the political arena to keep the good times rolling, baby!
Yesterday on Lou Dobbs Weekend Jaime McIntyre said:
MCINTYRE: Jessica, one thing they can do -- and maybe Bill Schneider would want to jump in on this -- is legislate something that's going to happen anyway. So, for instance, if they were to call for troop reductions by the spring, that's going to happen, and they could look pretty effective.
Today General Petraeus did just that and CNN treated it as major news. If the Democrats did as McIntyre suggested, CNN would have been all over them as trying to spin the inevitable.
Of course, when Jaimie McIntyre was reporting his fact checking today, he didn't mention his comment from yesterday even though Petraeus and Crocker were doing exactly what he suggested.
Michael Lutz
Redwood City, CA
BULLSHIT!!! This man is spouting pure bullshit out his mouth! Talk about a sellout...
I don't have time to watch it now, but need I bother??? Let me guess: the surge is producing results (graphs, charts, spin) and we need to wait 6 more months to give it a chance. Is that about it?? That took me 30 seconds, not 30 minutes.
Wow, those were the 3 most redundant links I've ever clicked on. I was hoping to see some fact-checking, not all three sites only jumping on the same instance of Petraeus spinning.
Lies in less than a minute. Claiming that he (Gen. Petraeus) wrote it, without the report being edited or written by anyone else would be laughable if it were not for the fact that he is defending the neocons instead of the Constitution. I feel sorry for Gen. Petraeus that he has allowed himself to be used as a puppet to repeat the neocon's propaganda. It's easy to imagine that of all the battles the General faces, one of the toughest must be getting any sleep.
Well, lets see, with the Petraeus report, we're to keep the surge going until next summer, whereupon, we'll be back to where were were before the surge started, right back to "stay the course". So much for the Iraq Study Group.
And make no mistake, if Pelosi, with AIPAC urging, is willing to drop provisions to have Bush clear with Congress a new war with Iran, the Dems aren't going to do anything other than posture over Iraq.
The Dems are comfortable being the lesser of two evils.
Petraeus is devoted to a single cause: furthering his career. There is simply no way this man could have been chosen for this job while in possession of a shred of integrity or loyalty to the Constitution. Bush chose him precisely because America is still willing to listen to lies coming from uniformed military commanders. America's love affair with the military is one of the root causes of our present trouble. Until Americans wake up and demand disarmament and the dismembering of the MIC, we will continue to be royally FUTA by Re-pukes and Demo-clowns, while global corporations pocket our cash.
George @ 42:
Well you know, those insurgents will love us now, and work hard for freedom and democracy and the American way. Of course, they could just take the money, and weapons, and continue support Al Queda...oh no, they wouldn't do that, would they?
The PNAC cabal that came up with this latest deranged tactic, are a pack of idiots, their strategy of arming all sides of this civil war is insane. They insult the intelligence of every thinking Citizen, with every lying word. And I agree, it should by now be perfectly obvious to all that the US hasn't the slightest intention of leaving Iraq EVER, and this entire farce of a "report", as written by Cheney & flunkies, and played out today by their 2 stooges, merely serves to demonstrate the utter contempt in which we are held by the junta.
Ghostwolf @ 59:
There was no written "report". His only "report" was his opening statement. The rest was his testimony to questions that were asked. So...He wasn't (really) lying.
Weaseling but not lying.
at arounf the 49 minute mark of cspan3's coverage, the open mics pick up a discussion between chairman skelton and duncan hunter. skelton is heard telling hunter his feeling about the few protestors and hunter uses this opportunity to tell skelton to throw them all out. he has a theory and all this is caught, video and audio. if possible could someone please post for all to see. it appears as though skelton is not a fan of free speech almost equally as much as hunter.
the 49 minute mark was just as the issues with the generals mic brought the procedings to a halt.
I agree with the General. The United States Armed Forces and the Iraqi Government are making giant leaps toward success.
Most of us do not hear much about the successes because the mainstream media does not report on this type of news thanks to the vigorous anti-bush policies by these news stations.
Compared to the history of Iraqi people, this is the first time they are independent and being democratic. So some trouble is expected as they change their line of thinking and attitudes towards democracy.
The General is right with his speech and his report. The US and Iraqi people are making progress and with time, Iraq can become a stable strong economy and political power in the region.
If you notice, the general is also right about the foreign fighters in Iraq making trouble. The local people are supporting US troops. The Iraqi people want to get on with their lives and they do not want these foreign fighters in Iraq.
So many or should i say much, of Iraq is backing United States as they want to gain an sovereign country that is not threatened by Islamic Radicals from Iran and Syria. This is shown by how Tribal leaders and militia leaders have been deploying against Radicals and incoming terrorists.
So General is right, progress is being made, even though its a little slow and soon Iraq will be totally independent and a free nation. So until then, Americans must show support for our troops and our nation as America works with Iraqi people and their government to bring about progress and peace to the nation.
God Bless Bush, God Bless America, God Bless Iraqi people and God bless all!
Also interrupting the General's report and causing chaos or distractions in the hearing or in committee is NOT free speech.
That is an ABUSE of free speech.
If you do not agree with what the General is saying, you DO NOT start screaming in the committee etc. You go home or do things outside to call your politicians, your supporters and other avenues like the media to show your disagreements.
So that protestor that was screaming should have been kicked out and even barred from ever coming to a hearing. If you are coming to a hearing, show your respect and let the person finish. Then you can protest all you like afterwards.
"I may disagree with what you say, but i will defend your rights to say it"
Thank You
Ebey Soman @ 67:
You haven't seen the English Parliament debate have you? Now that's entertainment!
Oh yeah, and free speech too.
The news media can't report the good news because they're trapped in the Green Zone with the American brass where it's safe.
[...] as the pundits ceaselessly report – but what do they hope to accomplish? If you go through the Petraeus report, the key passages are those that deal with Iran. Petraeus continually points the finger at Tehran [...]
[...] you go through the Petraeus report, the key passages are those that deal with Iran. Petraeus continually points the finger at Tehran [...]
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