September 09, 2007 08:02 PM
The Iraq War Report: Rep. Ackerman asks the BIG question
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My question is while we wait for this to happen, how much more blood should we invest? If it takes another four years, I'd like to know from each of you your best, realistically optimistic view of where Iraq will be in those four years. And if it is, that we spend during that time another 4,000 American lives, created another 20,000 plus people maimed for life, spend another 600 billion dollars, see our military further decimated more than it has been already, will...this...be...worth...it?
It's worth it to those who have no skin in the game, the "face-savers." As for the rest of us, not one more cent, not one more drop of blood, is worth extending this mother of all FUBARs.
Since no one said it already.........nevermind.
The surge marches onward
Excellent question, Peter Lorre.
He was one of three that I thought had a spine.
Jack Jett
Bingo!
Don't forget we were DECEIVED into this morass, and those responsible should be called to ACCOUNT!!!
Watching Petraeus on Faux with the charts,graphs and statistics, I'm reminded of Colin Powell at the U.N. and the cartoons he was exhibiting.
Oh yeah! It'll be worth it!
I'm glad you picked up on this. Ackerman, unfortunately, asked his question in too many parts, giving the General and the Ambassador the opportunity to slide away from any responsive answers. But he was sharp, and began a series of sharp questions from our side of the committee table. (Reps. Wexler, Engel). But...slip sliding away, both the G and the A kept dancing the dance. As my dear late grandma would have said, "Vat den?"
Exactly, the Iraqis are not American citizens, dont live in America, dont pay taxes to the US treasury, so not our problem what happens when we leave. We should never have been there in the first place.
Time for the Republicans to admit defeat and say they are sorry, pull the troops out NOW, donate 100 billion dollars to the UN for them to rebuild Iraq.
Nice filibuster there, General. When in doubt, when challenged by a tough question, just invoke Al Queda. It's clear we are in situation we can't win. Nobody has asked what the Iraqis -- those voters in that new fledgling Democracy -- want us to do to help stabilize their country. Just a mess. Let's get out. The situation can really only improve.
VIDEO-The Iraq War Report: Rep. Ackerman asks the BIG question
My question is while we wait for this to happen, how much more blood should we invest?
More concrete barriers will help stabilize the situation?
Okay,we'll have Halliburton ship every available concrete barrier in the country to Iraq and get the hell out.
Occams Razor: Sometimes the easiest solution is the best solution.
It's all about the Bogey man.....
Biggus Diggus @ 10:
Over 70% want us out.
Biggus Diggus @ 10:
I believe they have, or are in the process of voting a resolution stating that the US leaves Iraq.
Its possible that every time they get close to doing so, a nasty bomb goes off...
They'd be lying if they thought they had the resources for another four years. God forbid anyone asks for accountability.
Ferrofluid @ 14:
The other 30% didn't get asked.
A better question would have been, "When are all you rich guys going to start putting some money into this thing?"
Ron @ 16:
or are dead or fled the country
Sorry General. The most recent escalation is not a success. We are not drinking your Fox flavored Cool-Aide anymore.
For four years the situation has been worsening in Iraq. And all that time the Fox Republicans have been saying things have been improving. Froptraeus' blather is just more of that.
Suggestion: wake up and smell the coffee already. If we can't do this with an all-out effort in four years, what makes you think we can do it with a declining effort in four, or eight or even twelve more years.
America is tired of excuses. All you Republicans did is prattle on about how great things are through your right-wing billionaire Murdoch mouthpiece at Fox. Listen to me. Okay? Listen to me. It's not working. You are totally disconnected from reality. You have spun us for four long years and nothing has improved. You have no credibility left anymore. None.
It's time to start pulling out. We know you are desperately trying to keep America's heads shoved into the toilet bown in Iraq so you can share the blame with the next Administration which, rest assured, will not be from your sorry party. America is not buying it. We want out. Our presence is only delaying political reconciliation and, in the interim, causing lots and lots of deaths and hundreds of billions of our money wasted.
U.N. chief warns U.S. not to forget democratic ideals in war on terrorism
Secretary-General Kofi Annan, in his farewell address, urged the United States not to abandon its democratic ideals while waging war against terrorism.
-snip-
He said that the U.S. has a special responsibility to the world because it continues to have extraordinary power.
Annan summed up five principles that he considers essential: collective responsibility, global solidarity, rule of law, mutual accountability and multilateralism.
Quoting Truman
He chose the Truman museum for his final major speech in part because it is dedicated to a president who was instrumental in the founding of the United Nations. The museum was under tight security, including sharpshooters on the roof and a strong police presence. Only a handful of protesters appeared outside the museum. His speech repeatedly praised the Truman administration but never mentioned Bush by name.
"As President Truman said, 'The responsibility of the great states is to serve and not dominate the peoples of the world,'" Annan said.
"He believed strongly that henceforth security must be collective and indivisible. That was why, for instance, that he insisted when faced with aggression by North Korea against the South in 1950, on bringing the issue to the United Nations," Annan said.
"Against such threats as these, no nation can make itself secure by seeking supremacy over all others."
Calls for revamped Security Council
Annan also called for a reform of the Security Council, saying its membership "still reflects the reality of 1945." He suggested adding new members to represent parts of the world with less of a voice.
He said the permanent members, the world powers, "must accept the special responsibility that comes with their privilege.'
"The Security Council is not just another stage on which to act out national interests," he said in another jab at Bush.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16153753/
Annan warns US against go-it-alone diplomacy
Kofi Annan, in his last major speech as U.N. secretary general, urged the United States on Monday to shun go-it-alone diplomacy and collaborate on its world challenges, including the Iraq war.
In a farewell address delivered at Harry Truman's presidential library in Independence, Missouri, Annan praised the 33rd U.S. president's legacy, and quoted Truman in cautioning that "no nation can make itself secure by seeking supremacy over all others."
During his two five-year terms as U.N. leader, Annan has tangled often with President George W. Bush's administration, particularly over the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, launched without a green light from the U.N. Security Council.
"When power, especially military force, is used, the world will consider it legitimate only when convinced that it is being used for the right purpose -- for broadly shared aims -- in accordance with broadly accepted norms," Annan said.
In response to a question on how to end the war in Iraq, Annan said the United States needed to work with other countries, including Iran and Syria, to foster a "sharing" of political power and oil revenues within Iraq's Sunni and Shi'ite factions.
"If you make them responsible and pull them into work with you, I think it will be in everyone's interests," he said. "Getting Iraq right is not only in the interests of the U.S. and the broad international community but even more so for the countries in the region."
Annan renewed a call to expand the 15-nation Security Council and took a dig at U.S. opposition to a plan to add 10 seats.
Bush administration officials have argued Washington should use the United Nations only to serve its national interests.
But Annan said it was crucial to organize U.N. bodies "in a fair and democratic way, giving the poor and the weak some influence over the actions of the rich and the strong."
"It is only through multilateral institutions that states can hold each other to account," he said.
The United States has historically been a leader in human rights, noted Annan.
"When it appears to abandon its own ideals and objectives, its friends abroad are naturally troubled and confused," he said in an apparent reference to charges of abuse at U.S. prisons in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and Iraq's Abu Ghraib.
Truman, who ordered two atomic bombs dropped on Japan in 1945, learned from that experience that security from then on "must be collective and indivisible," Annan said.
"All civilization is at stake, and we can save it only if all peoples join together in the task," Annan said.
"You Americans did so much, in the last century, to build an effective multilateral system, with the United Nations at its heart. Do you need it less today, and does it need you less, than 60 years ago?"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16151137/
Petraeus is a fuckin' double talker. He talk ed in circles. Congressman ackerman was right on target. This general sucks George Bush's hind teet.
NO more dead and maimed for life soldiers.
Bring them home immediately.
Saddam is dead. Let the Iraqi's purge Al Quiada
Then they could either kill each other or
decide to live together.
Fuck you George Bush you failed at every under taking before you stole the election. And
you have given America a failed presidency!
Funny....
We're deciding the fate of Iraq, and yet we don't ask any Iraqi's to testify.
America got her war. We will leave, make no doubt. It won't be soon.
It won't be pretty.
I don't know how anyone can be duped again by these guys. EVERY general on active duty will LIE as much as required. That is part of their job. What a joke. Colin Powell brought a cartoon drawing of a so called 'mobile weapons lab' and tried to say Saddam was dangerous, now this BS. These generals have absolutely NO credibility, getting the truth from them is harder than getting the truth from a regular politician.
Wake up, IMPEACH all these scoundrels NOW!
Marty @ 23:
Don't worry taxpayers will never realize they got stuck with the bill.
The Shias are not ready to `make nice' with the Baathists who murdered, raped, tortured, etc Shias for decades under the rule of Saddam Hussein, i.e. a dictator that the US once supported.
Eat shit and die Crocker!!
Iraq: The Way to Go
By Peter W. Galbraith
Volume 54, Number 13 · August 16, 2007
[snip]
So much for the "fantastic freedom institute".
WTF?
1) IRAQ: Clerics Begin to Take Over, By Ali al-Fadhily*, BAGHDAD, Sep 10, 2007 (IPS) - [snip]
Clerics began to play a major role since the U.S.-led occupation began in April 2003. Despite the promises of U.S. President George W. Bush to turn Iraq into a secular and free country, clerics have become the real leaders, and are beginning to control most political matters. http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39197
2) Iraq: Bush's Islamic Republic
By Peter W. Galbraith
Volume 52, Number 13 · August 11, 2005
SCIRI and Dawa want Iraq to be an Islamic state. They propose to make Islam the principal source of law, which most immediately would affect the status of women. For Muslim women, religious law—rather than Iraq's relatively progressive civil code—would govern personal status, including matters relating to marriage, divorce, property, and child custody. A Dawa draft for the Iraqi constitution would limit religious freedom for non-Muslims, and apparently deny such freedom altogether to peoples not "of the book," such as the Yezidis (a significant minority in Kurdistan), Zoroastrians, and Bahais.
THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ; Islamic Law Controls the Streets of Basra; Enforcers patrol the city and Shiite militiamen have taken over the police. Residents accused of infractions are beaten or killed.: By Louise Roug. Los Angeles Times, Jun 27, 2005 [snip]
Physicians have been beaten for treating female patients. Liquor salesmen have been killed. Even barbers have faced threats for giving haircuts judged too short or too fashionable.
Religion rules the streets of this once cosmopolitan city, where women no longer dare go out uncovered.
"We can't sing in public anymore," said Hussin Nimma, a popular singer from the south. "It's ironic. We thought that with the change of the regime, people would be more open to singing, art and poetry."
* Nearly 3000 murders + uncounted thousands of physical, psychological, spiritual mutilations + tens of billions of dollars in damage incurred
** Tens of thousands of people maimed, murdered, raped, drilled in the head, sodomized, burned, hanged, drowned, etc + five hundred billion dollars
Not only did the bemedaled prick not answer the question, he appeared to have no small amount of disdain for Ackerman. Why the hell are these neocon lackeys allowed to get away without being FORCED to answer the questions asked of them?
Excellent question, totally non-responsive answer. This just flat sucks.
Grow some balls Democrats!!!
It is time for ALL armchair, chickenshit, chickenhawk, warmongering, heroes, to get your asses to the nearest recruitment station to enlist for this cause of the reichwingnut thugs in the crime family. If it is worth what these lying thieves are saying, it is worth your sorry, lilly livered, asses to hump some desert hills with the rest of those who carry your water. This war is bogus and the cowards who want it should be fighting it. We can stand to lose some of those cowards.
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Petraeus is a LIAR!
Dem Panel Leaders: Petraeus, Crocker Are 'Good People Shackled To A Bad Policy'
Sheesh
Petraeus Suggests Surge Forces For Another Year.
Dems. Uh gee. How much you need?
Hoplite @ 27:
A perfect example of why we need to get out, or withdraw to the borders to keep foreign meddlers out, and let the Iraqis settle this themselves. We cannot, cannot stop this hatred with the barrel of our guns. It's played itself out too long. Let the Iraqis sort it out as horrific and cruel as it will be.
Also keep in mind this is what happens when you try to play God in a country you know nothing about.
I Just Can't Take It Any More
I have become really tired of hearing this Al Qaeda in Iraq shit. I watched this propaganda develop from conception and refuse to be used in talking like we should debate its merits. There is no AQI in significant numbers to adjust, increase, decrease, and surge for. This is the biggest lie of the War.
Petraeus is lying through this teeth, and it is networks like Fox and CNN that have given him a grandiose status. Well this is what I feel the Democrats should do. They should withhold funding and not give in until they get the votes they need to begin a serious withdrawal process. The Democrats had better get their own observers in Iraq. The Army is creating their own talking points and I suspect many have paid the price for their policies to hold the order. As it stands, they have found a way to side with one of the waring factions in Iraq. This is the scapegoated AQI, who for all we know, could be Shiites. What the hell they all ware mask.
I am just tires of hearing the same old "we need to keep the killing going" because its working. What is working? The same amount of killing, nine today, have been going on. This has got to stop.
Joseph
The fact that Betrayus still has a command tells any thinking person that he has agreed to lick the boots and kiss the ass of the bubble boy. Every general who has spoken truthfully to der chimp has been fired. Go figure.
Has Dubya ever lied about this war in Iraq? The goal posts continue to move. They think they can carry this crap out and blame the Democratic Party but the thugs are so stupid to not understand that over 70% of Americans think it was a GOP mistake all along. The GOP is so over.
This was one of the better questions but it was again not answered just spun.
I watched most but had to leave before it was over. I heard Wexler did a good job. Does anyone know where I can see that?
You note that the question Congressman Ackerman asked was not answered.
Watch "The Fog of War"; its about Vietnam and primarily is questions directley put to Bob McNamara, former Secretary of Defense (War). It is worth watching. About question #9 or so McNamara responds "don't answer the question you were asked, answer the question you wish they had asked. Look for this part in the movie. Also note that McNamara still doesn't get it.
Ackerman deserves an answer to his question. We all do. Especially the soldiers.
He may have asked "the right question" but he sure as hell did not follow it up or give the right answers.
Gen. P got away with the horrific claim that AQI is the "central fuel" in the sectarian violence. That is patently false. Gen P got away with attributing the Golden Dome bombing to AQI when in fact no one knows who did it. And Ackerman...stumbled and allowed P to talk over him. In one point Ackerman asks P "isn't it true that AQI did not exist until 2005" , P dodged it with an " I am not stating when they..." and Ackerman failed to point out that he had just been asked to make such a statement by a member of congress and it was not "optional".
Sure, Ackerman asked the question but then he allowed Gen P to just drown it in a BS shower. This war will go on for years.
Pres '08 (R)
Sep 10 Rasmussen
Thompson 26%, Giuliani 22%, Romney 13% ...
Bill Kristol must have got his rocks off today!
Our mission is to end the sectarian violence. ??
How do we leave?
Oooh boy cement walls. Cemented communities!
Questions to have asked Petraeus: how much of the violence currently against us, and against iraqi civilians is directly caused by Al-Qaeda in Iraq and what does he mean by "catalyst"? What other groups are part of the sectarian violence? How much of a role do they play? How much of a threat is Al-qaeda in Iraq in our global "war on terror" ? Is it more of a threat than Al-qaeda in Afghanistan or Al-qaeda in Pakistan, that we are sacrificing our efforts there in order to "stabilize" areas of secretarian violence?
Petraeus seems to make an interesting link in order for us to still be interested in Iraq
He/Bush seems to imply that Secretarian violence = Al-Qaeda in Iraq = Al-Qaeda that attacked us in 9/11 = National sequrity threat. Therefore, secretarian violence in iraq is worth our national interest.
Where reality is: Attacks on 9/11 = Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan = Al-Qaeda in Pakistan = threat to nation security = undermined and diverted by our efforts in Iraq.
Civil war, Secretarian violence cannot be "stabilized" by "whack-a-mole" military but by political negotiations by sects and countries involved. Syria and Iran are concerned about the future of Iraq and must be involved... they know the country and people better than us, we can monitor their involvement, along with the people of UN. If they cannot live together in peace, then for the sake of peace, they can be partitioned.
Sorry for the long rant: But those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. I want the next president ( a democrat) to be a scholar of middle east history, or have a scholar in his/her inner circle -not another cheney/rumsfeld
The oil sharing agreements are being written by the oil corporations. No wonder they can't come to an agreement.
Moore
Watada
Ackerman
Murtha
Brown
Yep, Eagle Scouts make the most frightening anti-war activists.
L.A. Confidential @ 26:
What me worry?
I've read Vonnegut. I already know the end to this story.
Poot teet weet.
No more, how can he claim AL Queda when the name is just that and has been prov en by the present INCOMPETENT administration to be just a name that can be signed to anyone or thing. The General like the IDIOT and COWARD in the WH. is extending the WH. position. Out NOW no MORE MONEY no more BLOOD of our troops. If they are so strong about it let them volunteer the SON and DAUGHTERS of thew RIGHT WING and the NEOCONS and the RELIGIOUS RIGHT let these flag waving bible thumping SPINELESS,GUTLESS, COWARDS GO.
Gen Betrayus: Surge is working, send in more...we'll decrease the number in two years time by less than we increased it
New Gen. after Betrayus: Surge is working, send in more...making progress
New Gen. after New Gen. after Betrayus: More troops, we've got them on the run
Etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum....
Democrats response? Um, Ok, and how much extra taxpayer dollars ya need?
And part of Petraeus' plan is to build concrete walls around neighborhoods? Didn't we go through this once before? This guy's got one plan, one vision: he's gonna prove that the US military can kill 5% of the insurgency if it takes a hundred years. He should be a writer for "Fantasy and Science Fiction" magazine. At least Rep Ackerman had the cojones to take the good general head on, all ahead full. I certainly thank him for that. Concrete walls around neighborhoods. Yeah, that'll make the Iraqis like us even more. Give. Me. A. Break.
I notice no congressclown addressed the subject of what happens to a government that has been propped up by the US for x number of years after the US leaves. None of them want to face the fact that there will be a power struggle among all the factions whether we leave tomorrow or 10 years from now. A government that held power during the occupation will be short lived after a US withdrawal.
Marty @ 46:
Yip I'm preparing for a new career as a Triple Track Storm Window Salesmen
ot
dang you guys give us an open thread.
I think I'm in love!
I must admit I was shocked at the absolute bullshit put forth by Patraeus.
He was confirmed by the same giddy idiots that passed the resolution on the war.
He uses the phrase "Al Qaeda - Iraq" as if he's talking about a branch of a hotel chain.
He reminds me of Powell bullshitting the nation.
He's out to sell us a lethally defective product.
And people complain about lead paint in toys made in China.
T Wall all of Iraq, yeah that's the ticket General. What a lame testimony. Oh, one more question: Who made your arrangements to appear on Fox News tonight? Aren't you bipartisan?
Jesus Christ! Heavily reinforced T-Walls! And what the hell is al Qaeda/Iraq?!!!
This is not a military term! This is a new rovian/bushian/dumbfuckian new word to link the two even further and it is one that we shall all soon become very familiar with! These bastards, no offense general, will stop at nothing to lie!
I didnt hear Betrayus answer the part about the cost of the occupation in blood and treasure. Did I miss something??
Also, I want Ackerman for my congressman instead of the asshole I have.
Just think - you'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you remember when the USA didn't occupy Iraq!
Questions like those were asked during the cold war, and we won. Those same questions cost us a war as well, Vietnam. The weak are always more brave in how loud they are when asking for retreat
On Hardball this evening, Chris Matthews asked Pat Buchanan who he thought would be in charge of Iraq in 6 months, Maliki or Al Sadr. Buchanan said "Al Sadr."
Matthews then stated "Then this thing is a complete waste of blood."
Matthews is correct for once.
The Iraq War Report: Rep. Ackerman asks the BIG question
And the response? And I'll quote:
"bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, AlQaeda, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, Insurgents, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, AlQaeda............"
Whoa @ 58:
Maybe I'm not understanding. Do you think we should have stayed longer in Vietnam so as not to embolden the enemy? Or to keep our credibility?
Boop @ 61:
We should have fought them over there, so those evil Vietnamese would not have fought us over here!!!!!!!!!!
I've been told that people who are lying blink more than those who are telling the truth. That being said, watch the video again.
V V
Joementum @ 3:
LOL..you beat me to it.
And yes, another 4000+ lives, and probably close to a billion $ more. The pussy dems will roll over and the MSM will send flabby-ass Al Roker to Iraq to chuckle about expensive burkas (yeah, that's right, fuck Al Roker) . Bush will get his time needed to fulfill his genocidal political agenda. Defeatism? What the fuck do you expect?! 6+ years of lies, fear mongering, and perpetual injustice. And it means I have to worry about my brother-in-law stuck in Iraq for who knows how long now.
CensoredFan @ 62:
I don't know. I like the Vietnamese food alright. And, the manicure's are good too.
My fellow open minded, peace loving Americans,
Today, I decided to watch the testimony of General Petraeous. Before he delivered his statement, during the technical difficulties with the mikes, I thought to myself, this man, who is a student of the Vietnam disaster, has an opportunity to become a great American hero, to end this long, painful war, and to go down in history as a legend. All he had to do was acknowledge what is obvious to everyone but our president and his delusional constituents, that is that we are chasing our tail in the iraq, and that the war must end today. Had he done that, I think it very well may have. Instead, he chose to serve the president, loyally and dishonestly.
oh well.
Rusty B. Shakleford @ 66:
I had the same reservations about Colin Powell when he did his dog and pony show at the UN.
Whoa @ 58:
and the bullshit continues to mount up eh !
CensoredFan @ 67:
If only I had a dog or pony and lived in D.C. today.
Headline on Huffpo reads that Betray-us and Crockacrap are "good people tied to a bad policy". I couldn't disagree more. They are not good guys since they knew what they were getting themselves into - Bush's can of worms where you trade your soul for a paycheck. These are not good guys by any stretch of the imagination. The stench of their manipulation of the facts is permeating this entire country. I wouldn't be surprised to find them before an international tribunal in the near future as well. They're conspirators at best; abject liars and criminals at worst.
Rep. Ackerman:
Of course it will be worth it, Rep. Ackerman, if it saves the precious posterior of the Republican Party. God's Own Party will be able to pawn it off on the Dem administration.
The avalanche of bullshit in this government is choking this government and this country. Impeachment needs to take place for it to survive.
Otay @ 71:
Let's face it: What's left of the tanking GOP (now at 27% registered voters) will inherit this war along with their jefe, Georgie Porgie. This is Bush's War; This is the Repuke's War. They will never in a million lifetimes be able to pin it on the Democrats.
sunset @ 73:
If we are still in Iraq 4 years from now, several years after the Dems take over, I see it like this: "We were winning this war until the Dem administration took over. They ruined it for us." And then I see the MSM running with the talking points...
but I still hope you are correct. I hope there are enough smart people in this country left just in case it comes to this.
Anyone who is for the war should be required to send their children to fight. I guarantee that would end the war.
The Big Answer is Yes.
For Bush and Cronies, all that(lives, blood and money) is a small price to pay, for a chance to blame the ultimate failure of all this, on the administration that has to get us out of this mess.
"How could you suggest we leave after the sectratarian violence stops?"
silence.
BURN!
"If we end the secretarian violence, how can we leave without killing everybody who we've identified as part of a terrorist organization such as Al Qaeida in Iraq?"
DOUBLE BURN!
Terrorism is a tactic, and you can't fight a tactic. The governmant might as well declare a war on Teenage Gangsterism. It's impossible to win against the Teenage Gangsters until a permant military presence in every city in the nation forever. Martial law. Permanant military presence. Forever.
Cement T walls...yeah, that'll work.
I really admire the way he framed his questions....
No BS....
And right to the point....
Tell you one thing, if you're like me you haven't had a moment's elation or relief since the new congress was sworn in in January.
Fuck them all.
To every season, spin, spin, spin.
There is a reason, spin, spin, spin.
And a time under heaven to weep.
Petraues CAN"T believe the BS he spins. What a bunch of sad, pathetic f*cks.
These connies think of war like fantasy football
Some nights I cannot sleep for thinking about what has happened since Bush took office. But the really horrible thing is that the opposition party is helpless to do anything about Bush. The most despised president in the history of our country and the dems are powerless to change course. That is the really horrrible thing.
No wonder Betrayus and Crocker did not testify under oath.
The ignorant cons think that they can pass this war over to the Democratic Party and wash their hands in it...Nixon took Vietnam from LBJ and swore he could end it in six months...that was in 1968. We pulled out in 1975 after Nixon had expanded the war trying to be the war president...sound familiar? LBJ still gets alot of blame and Dubya will get all the blame, no matter how they spin it, this is a GOP war and it was unnecessary and they are allowing good people to die for their political war.
Biggus Diggus @ 10:
We know what 70% of Iraqis want, they want us OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY!!!
Why arent we moving heaven and earth to oblige them???!!!
rougy @ 23:
How about those refugee Iraqis in Syria coming to town to enlighten us as to how it's affected their lives.....
(Actually I believe they are the lucky ones...)
Why arent we moving heaven and earth to oblige them???!!!
Because the chimperor is a bubble boy and Betrayus is carrying water for him.
If, according to Peter-anus, al quida irak is on the sunni side, why then are we arming the sunnis? So we can have success in anbar?
the dems can do all the whining they want.
the only phuKKKing thing that matters is how they VOTE!
robertlewis @ 83:
the dems are powerless by choice! do not believe their whining!
Once again the argumentisbeingframed by the warmongers. If it takes this man and that much , is still being base on the assumption that one day we will succeed,
GIVE ME a FUCKING break. This is NOT Korea, this is not vietnam, this is not apan, this is not germany, we are in the midle of a region that, shit even if they did want to make friends. we dont , and goddamnit, there is no Victory, but, you won't hear that from a demoocrat in congress, because everybody's checks are signed by the same guy, and he has the controlling interest in a lot of war stock.
the can just keeps getting kicked further down the road. we were asked to be patient and wait for progress in the sept report. now we need another six months. wake up! there is no leaving Iraq under Bush. He wants to pass it on to the next President. He doesn't want historians to properly place the carnage on his presidency
There are many good & moral people taking great pains to try to convince the administration of the error of their ways.
They deserve our respect & gratitude.
However, it will never happen...no matter how much reality we throw down in front of their feet, those 'in charge' will never admit to any wrongdoing, nevermind changing course.
The arrogance & the need to be 'fuck of the mountain' far outway any intelligent thought these cowardly, money-worshipping creeps might possibly have.
Great senator, too bad he got side tracked ( typical Bushy behaviour When a tough question is asked yell alqaeda! alqaeda!
Did Petraeus finally get pinned down to how much more should we spend in lives and money?
I apologize for the spelling errors in my previous post, but I think the spirit was on.
I do not think it takes a conspiracy theorist attitude to notice the idiotic assumptions that these arguments are based upon, and so frustrating when the most vocal opponents of this waste of life are submitting to the bogus framing of this argument. we call this an argument, this waste of life that we alll participate in everyday, and we should be ashamed of ourselves.
This may have been mentioned already in the comments, but you neglected to include the best part of Ackerman's testimony. It would be great if you could include it. It was mindblowing. Ackerman turned the Republican arguments and their framing on their head (for example, he asked, if "we're killing them over there so we don't have to kill them over here," how could Petraeus be talking about any drawdown until we have killed every "terrorist" in Iraq). Why is it that the top Democratic leaders in Congress aren't as pointed and articulate as this?
The big question is what are we doing there? Does anyone have any idea? What we are doing now is arming and training the Iraqis so that their civil war will be even bloodier. Is that our purpose? Is that what our troops are dying for? The answer is clearly yes. There is no other reason to be there. Why isn't this asked LOUDLY? For further comments see
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I think they want all the Iraqis in concrete T-walled, segregated, neighbourhoods, so the U.S. can roam the broad open boulevards in Humvees, and control them all at checkpoints. "War over": permanent bases easy to do.
And Rep. Ackerman, excellent work. Thank you.
We can build on Ackerman's point by letting the Dems. leadership know that we are
watching their lack of compassion for our soliders and their families and their refusal to empathized with the fact that they have a responsibility to end this war and restore some idignity to the Iraqi's lives. They should also be cognizant of the fact that any extension of this war would seem to lead a severly broken military which they will own.
L.A. Confidential @ 18:
When are all you rich guys going to start putting some BLOOD into this thing?
So, the "former" insurgents in an Bar province are now on "our side." What happens when, in the words. of Gen. P., "...we stabilize the situtation in each area....try to get the violence down...in some cases literally using cement T-walls....then establish a sustainable security arrangement..." and we leave? Does he honestly believe that when we leave the "sustainable security arrangements" will continue to be sustainable? Does he believe that the "cement T-walls" will remain in place, that the walls will not be subjected to explosives?
Wake up America - we are being sold down the river by the neocon-military-industrial complex. GWB will continue, until his term ends, to use words to justify actions that reduce our liberties and place our country in an increasingly perilous position - a country with a worn-out military, a depleted treasury and a worthless currency, and no civil rights. Wake up.
Peace! GWB - WPE - WCE (war criminal extraordinaire)
M
the generals answer as i heard it " hummina hummina hummina um hummina".
it would appear that no one in the administration has an answer if the all knowing about insurgencies general has no answer. wasnt he promoted as "the" top guy on fighting insurgencies?
What acrock of shit from betrayus. If this genius was interested in defeating al Queada, such that it actually exists as any threat to America, the solution is not going after some branch. Go after the base and Take them out. Bush is obvioulsy not going to let that happen, not with the Bin Ladins financing the Bushes.
Second, Al Queada in Iraq isn't driving the insurgency. We are. We are what's brought Al Queada to Iraq in the first place. We are driving them also. This was nothing more than a recruiting opportunity for them that they have capitalized upon. the basis of the insurgency is that the majotiy of the Iraqis know we are there to colonize them and liberate them from their natural resources and to further use them as a permanent, gigantic land-locked supercarrior from which to sequentially launch further wars of aggression against any other countries in the middle east which possess oil. They aren't stupid. This boils down to an attempt by the Iraqi People to thwart an assault upon their sovereignty as a nation and as a people. Their can be no military victory that accrues to the US.
What the fuck does Petraeus and Premier Boosh think Americans would do if some foreign power (or for that matter - our own government if it, say, tried to declare martial law) tried to do the same thing here? My bet is, we'd make Al Queada or the Iraqi insurgents look like a bunch girl scouts. But then it wouldn't be terrorists, it would be patriots. The full might of our military and our police forces could not prevail against a full blown guerilla insurrection in vietnam, Iraq or any place else, including the home front. That approach is never the answer. Defeat is inherent in the path. Petraeus of all people ought to know better.
Selling your soul must automatically mean that you forget all sorts of important shit you once knew.
Fuck betrayus.
The architects of this war don't care how much blood is "invested". It's not their blood. Most of them never served an worked to avoid military service. They like feeling tough; it makes them feel like men. But they are wimps. Pathetic wimps. Can't find a tall terrorist in a place where almost everyone is short.
When the military calls THEM for service, they cut and run.
Don't worry, the public will eventually come to blame Democrats for this debacle/failure.
Republicans know and understand just how stupid the public can be.
[...] yesterday (anybody surprised by the timing?). And the Rep for my old ‘hood in Queens tries to get to the point. Of course, his original question never gets [...]
The military is simply a huge beauracracy that perpetuates itself throught war. All that heavy metal on petraeus on suggests how deeply entrenched he is in perpetuating the military industrial complex.
The Great Iraq Hand Off will go off without a hitch. Not a single asshole who made this mess will be held accountable - Rummy, Powell, Bremer, Kissinger, Franks - all goofed up terrifically and still have their cake whenever they want.
The suffering for the mistakes these old men have made has been limited to a small but significant % of Americans and a huge # of people most Americans don't seem to give 2 shits about, so nothing will change in the short term (10-15 years). But I got a Colbert style gut feeling that when you screw over millions of people with dumbass policies, a bunch of them aren't likely to forget it. After the next Dem president gets fired for economic conditions he/she didn't create, we will have another smirking fratboy get elected prezdint.
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