Asking for Trouble
By Barbara OBrien Wednesday Sep 19, 2007 7:28pmThis week Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was denied a visit to Ground Zero. Ahmadinejad asked that he be allowed to lay a wreath at the site while he visits New York next week. Today ABC News reports that Ahmadinejad may go anyway, permission or no permission, and has even announced when. I can see all kinds of ways this would turn out badly, and I hope someone talks some sense into Ahmadinejad before then.
But Ahmadinejad is not the only one who needs to chill. The ever irresponsible Michelle Malkin is fanning the flames and trying to organize a “welcoming party.” And if she incites enough rage and recklessness to get someone killed, she will be equally outraged if anyone says it is her fault.
No sooner had word gotten out last week that New York City was considering the request than politicians of both parties went into spasms of outrage. There was such a piling on of outrage you’d have thought Ahmadinejad had proposed offering a human sacrifice or, worse, memorializing Muhammad Atta. As BooMan says, the piling on turned into a game of one-upmanship, with pols bragging that they were not only outraged, they were more outraged than their political opponents. (See also the Anonymous Liberal.)
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Malkin is already putting out the bat-signal to her brownshirt flying monkeys. This could get ugly.
Oh boy. I think this might be 'it,' what's going to set everything off.
[loud SIGH]
Fear, fear, fear. This adminstration is so about fear. Why are they so afraid of an Iranian? Let him come. Let him go where he wants to go - say what he wants to say. I'm not afraid, what are they so afraid of?
More of that great American foreign policy initiatives hard at work. Why would we want to even consider letting an elected rep from another country into ours? It's not like our politicians let in corrupt leaders from around the world, welcome them with open arms, and hide the fact that we are buddies (see, the Taliban, binLadens, etc etc). How sad. Ever wonder why they hate us?
Why not just let him visit the site? Iran had nothing to do with 9/11.
Maybe, just maybe extending an olive branch is better than rattling sabers.
Ah, Michelle Malkin. I can't wait to see someons slap that bitch in the face on national television.
You have to make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
I am SO glad I work in midtown. And so what if Mahmoud wants to see the big hole in the ground - that just might slap some sense into the little authoritarian.
Screw him. If he wants to see a hole in the ground, he can stay in Tehran.
Just days after highlighting his own foreign policy inexperience in a boomerang attack on his Democratic opponents, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney is at it again. Returning to his favorite bogeyman in Tehran, Romney called on the United Nations to ban Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from speaking to the world body next week and instead indict him for genocide.
For the details, see:
"Romney to UN: Indict Iran's Ahmadinejad."
blogenfreude @ 9:
Which little authoritarian? Bush or Ahmadinejad?
waterboarding for jesus @ 6:
Fucking SERIOUSLY.
Have we gone mad?
Yeah, we sure don't want any furriners, expecilaly dark ones, expressing any kind of respect for those killed on Sept. 11. That would be THE HEIGHT of disrespect.
As a matter of fact, we don't want to give any Islamofacsists the chance to appear even the teeniest bit human, because that undercuts our jsutification for bombing the hell out of 'em. We can't let that happen.
whats the big deal?..If he wants to go and pay respect to all who perished during the worst attack on the US..... EVER.....I say let him...what harm could it do?OH that's right we're not supposed to talk to him are we...he's the new boogieman..Maybe ...just Maybe....this could open up relations with Iran......which could be the start of something good.....NAW.....The Preznit said he's a terrrrist....
I'd say it's time for sense to be talked to our rightwing stupids.
We're not at war with Iran and Ahmadinejad will be in this country on legitimate diplomatic business.
Why isn't the FBI paying a call on Michelle Malkin?
spit take @ 14:
[points at spit take, at the same time touches end of own nose with the other hand and makes "ding ding ding!" noise]
"There was such a piling on of outrage you’d have thought Ahmadinejad had proposed offering a human sacrifice or, worse, memorializing Muhammad Atta."
You know, maybe that's exactly what he wants to do and will only get it known when he is safe back home.
Ummmm... Last I checked both NY and Ground Zero are public places. What are they going to do to stop him?
Ditto to what #13 said.
waterboarding for jesus @ 6:
CNN interviewed folks on the streets of New York and asked them if it was OK if Ahmadinejad placed a wreath at Ground Zero. It was a shock to see how many people said something along the lines of 'Hell no, for what he did on 911.' I shit you not. We are doomed.
Ahmadinejad is activly trying to create a situation by going to ground zero.
I think expecting this admin to practice any form of diplomacy...is well......lets just say the odds of winning the lottery are better....
It seems like a perfect time to get our country back, a little mind shock, a search for some common reason, the humanity within and simple goodness deep inside us after the last 7 years that turned the Americans into manipulateable, brainwashed sheeple. Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, America welcomes you so pay your respects as the Iranian people did immediately after 911 tragedy, demonstrate what the Americans never have a chance to see, fundamental human behaviors of the people outside of the US borders, namely love, human compassion, show of solidarity, so go ahead and just do it. Do it to show the failure of the American diplomacy, diplomacy that the Bush ignores completely because they are bigoted and stupid red-neck idiots who prefer to ignore the foreign officials rather then face them and be humiliated for their narrow-minded perception of the world and power that is not theirs and has never been. They call you a terrorist so ignore them, because the American people know better, they fund Blackwater, level ancient, proud nations and regret every bit of it so we know perfectly what terror means. If the UN can accept the terrorists within its walls, the NYC will embrace you as easily and understandingly. As for Bush and his failed gang of moronic criminals, you can pretend that terror is around the corner, but is it? It’s not and never has been. So f**k you all. You can arrest hundred of “Iranian officers” in Iraq, plant the Iranian ammunition wherever it suits you, play the terror game, play the American people but the game is over. You have lost. The new order is the old good American order without you hacks and traitors in power.
Who cares anymore. Malkin is a sick babe. Ahmadinejad is a repressive dirt bag. They should be playing the beast with 2 backs because they have so much in common. Each believes in bloodletting for presumed crimes against their facile ideologies. Each believes in suppressing free speech and dissent. The only difference is one pees standing up. . . and the Iranian squats.
I'm opposed to invading Iran.
I'm opposed to pre-emptive bombing of Iranian targets.
But I'm also opposed to Iran's answer to George Bush getting a photo op at ground zero.
blogenfreude @ 9:
Ahmadinejad (did I spell that right?) is just a face guy that is used by the Mullahs who really run Iran. Just like Cheney and his NeoCon masters use George W.
CD @ 22:
Yup!
Cheney and Bush have done far more harm to this country than Ahmadinejad. George Bush and Dick Cheney were allowed to lay wreaths at ground zero and they have killed more innocents than Ahmadinejad. If they ban Ahmadinejad then they should ban Bush and Cheney too. All 3 of these guys are cut from the same cloth when you get right down to it. Criminal thugs the lot of them.
Strawberry @ 21:
Our politicians are working up some patriotic fury to get us ready for the next war and we just sit around and let them.
We are so screwed.
________________________________________________________________
“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.”
--- Hermann Goering, Hitler’s Reich Marshall, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II.
Ruthless People @ 29:
Agreed.
CD @ 22:
No, Ahmadinejad knows that he is dealing with a bunch of petunalt twerps... and he is just playing with them. Fucking idiots... He just managed to put this American administration under their true context: a bunch of petty abusive assholes with no sense of decorum, dignity or piety.
The fucking little twit at the white house outmanouvered yet again by a 4 ft bearded jackass.
milquetoast @ 28:
He's a very shrewed guy.
A wanker yes but very shrewed.
Doctor Who @ 32:
I don't think we are in disagreement.
Update has link to article that he won’t ‘insist’ on going. Whose Ahmadinejad think he is anyway; Rudy?
Doctor Who @ 32:
hahahahaha! too true.
milquetoast @ 28:
However having Giuliani exploit the political tragedy for his own political gain, or have the administration literally parade ground zero to further their agenda and piss on the graves of the dead at the same time is perfectly OK. We don't give a fuck about people defacing and using 9/11 as long as they are Americans. We are a society of perverts trying to pretend we have some sort of moral high ground...
Why is it so much to ask for our current administration to act like adults for once in their 8 god damned years at the helm?
Why can't just let that jackass put a sign of respect for the victims, and at the same time a politician worht their weight on salt would have put the Iranian premier on the spot and allowing the stupid saber ratting between Iran and the US to simply be difused in a single swoop?
i like your style Ms. O'Brien! More of this lady!
Doctor Who @ 32:
yep....pretty frikin sad when you think about it.
BREAKING:
And from the AP:
The FBI, working with an Alaska oil contractor, secretly taped telephone calls with Sen. Ted Stevens as part of a public corruption sting, according to people close to the investigation. . . .
The recorded calls between Stevens and businessman Bill Allen were confirmed by two people close to the case who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still under way. They declined to say how many calls were recorded or what was said.
So let's look at this:
No Iraqis or Iranians were envolved with 9/11. They were mostly all Arabs, OK?
There are photos with Bush holding hands with some Arab leader a few times indicating some sort of dilomatic intimacy at least.
There is undeniable proof by scholars, engineers, demolition experts and more that WTC 1,2, and 7 were brought down with explosives in a controlled demolition. Of course any student of crimnology would point to the classic means, motive, and opportunity to AT LEAST cast a light of suspicion that it was an inside job.
Studying politics we know that Iran has developed into a first world country with beautiful cities, excellant universities, etc., and has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. They have threatened to flood the market with cheap oil based on the EURO which will kick some neocon ass in the market place as part of the comraderie of a mid-East nation standing up to the Beast.
Also, Ahmadinejad has proven to be a very well balanced head of state, despite the neocon main stream media attempts to misquote him and present him as a monster. He has tolerated the Black Ops war that is and has been going on in his country by us with incredible calm compared to other nations.
So what do we really have here folks? A president of a country that is being targeted with being nuked into the dark ages is making a gesture to show respect for 3000 dead citizens of the crazy motherf**king country that thinks it should tell the rest of the world how to live.
He is not the enemy. He is not running our country into an Orwellian nightmare. He didn't loot our gold in Fort Knox or anything else. No one reports that on 9/11 there were Iranian crying and mourning for our loss as there were in Iraq, because that doesn't fit into the cliche world we want to inhabit.
Give peace a chance.
CD @ 33:
I agree on both counts, a wanker and shrewed. But then again compared to George Bush every leader on the planet is shrewed. Putin, Ahmadinejad.... any depost and world leader is smarter and shrewder than our supreme court beady-eyed chimperor. Let's face it, Ahmadinejad knows what he's doing, he's playing Bush and by extension the US for a fool with this ground zero stunt because he can, which is because we have a fucking idiot in charge of our country who has run us into the ground and divided us, Ahmadinejad is just playing on the ground work laid by Bush and the divisive GOP.
And once again Wingnutland is swallowing the bait hook line and sinker.
Ruthless People @ 43:
supreme court installed beady-eyed chimperor was what I meant to say.
martha @ 4:
"I have nothing to offer but my blood, sweat and tears." -- Winston Churchill
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself." -- FDR
"I have nothing to offer but fear itself." -- GW Bush
this could be an olive branch........
Do you suppose that it is disgusting and a blight to the survivors when our politicians visit Japan or Germany? Or Korea, Or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Venezuala, or El Salvador, or Hawaii, or, or, or.....
Doctor Who @ 37:
Just can't deny a negative gut reaction to someone telling me a family member is an idiot, drunk, or what not. Like when Chavez came to the U.N. and went on about Bush being the devil.
Not certain where this defensiveness I can't deny comes. Probably re-directed learned behavior to protect immediate family. But if this isn't a manufactured event, then Ahmadinejad is being an ass.
Al-Qaeda is Iran's sworn enemy.
Whatever happened to 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'?
mudshark @ 46:
Cheney shoots doves off of olive branches......usually the old lawyer gets shot but Cheney aims for the dove.
Our country has turned into Michelle Maulkin.
Geez.
mudshark @ 46:
Unless he shoots his mouth off, Ahmadinejad will come out ahead on this.
He can offer an olive branch, or, unable to do so because of security concerns, he shows the rest of the world how out of control, and out of touch, 'murrica is.
Let's not forget; it isn't just the US media he'll be playing to.
After the Nine Eleven I recall seeing a million people in Tehran standing with the USA. I recall our former ally Saddam's condolences. The truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? What happened to the hunt for the Nine Eleven Conspirator Osama Bin Laden? Oh yeah, we aren't supposed to talk about Nine Eleven Conspiracies. Ahmadinjad said the Zionist Regimes in Israel and the US would be wiped off the map. Not that you would know that by reading the Associated Press. Iran has signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, giving them the right to use and research nookular power. Onward to Iran, war war war
Ruthless People @ 50:
would that be before or after the 4 martini(w/3 olives)...power breakfast.
RickinSF @ 52:
With the librul media firmly in the grasp of the GOP.....we have to look outside the country for news that's accurate...more or less....one does have to be carefull of what one reads...
Riiiiight. nothings going to happen. They're both rageoholics who are full of shit.
Per CBS News "Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has been accused of having links to al Qaeda, tells Scott Pelley that he would like to pay his respects to the American people by visiting ground zero."
First I heard of links of the Shiite Iran to the Sunni fundamentalist group, al Qaeda. I've heard of links to Shiite insurgents, but I'm quite surprised to hear of this supposed link to our favorite boogymen, the al Qaeda group.
Don't we hear of these links to al Qaeda just prior to some kind of preemptive action? Maybe time to keep the gas tank topped off.
CBS Story
Claim under the picture.
mudshark @ 46:
They get offered quietly...
What would Jack Bauer do?
Iranian president is on "the team". Rudy is the guy that should be banned from ground zero.
The Iran "crisis" is being developed to shift our attention away from the collapsing dollar. The Iranians are not our enemies. Its the "New World Order", a name created by daddy warbucks bush.
http://www.ft.com (Saudi Arabia announce "de-coupling" of their currency with the dollar - nary a word of it on the MSM)
Call me a nut, but just maybe, do a little research and find out who the man is behind the curtain.
mudshark @ 59:
go to commercial break?
Thing Fish @ 58:
True...but if you were under the threat of nuclear annihilation....would you do it quietly?
NPR reported in a deadpan voice this morning that he had asked permission to go the site but was refused because of "security conserations". WTF security? GWB can go there so can Rudy. How can they do such dumb commentless reporting. Let the guy go and sympathise. Iran did not cause 9/11, Iraq did not cause 9/11 - It was the pride and joy of a group of our best friends the Saudis.
in all my years visiting this site i've never read such many rightwing posts. we're either under attack from the republican jerks or i'm hanging about with the wrong crowd. read no.42 the man in the van hit the head on the nail. blow it out your arses and not
out of iran.
The left is losing its way.
First it was gaybashing rather than hypocrisy bashing.
Now its racial caricatures.(sp)
Lets drop the right wings talking points and show some balls.
Iran not only had nothing to do with 9/11 but were supportive. And now the president of Iran is attempting to show support and O'Brien shrieks in fear.
How about this. Tell the world that Saudi Arabia was behind 9/11 and not Iran and support the presidents visit.
The right will surely oppose it, and in doing so demostrate O'Brienesque cowardice and bigotry.
I admire the presidents courage. Is it any wonder that thugish redneck peckerwoods managed to abscond with the country in the face of bravery like this? If only the left had the president of Irans courage - perhaps Bush would never have happened.
Maybe our diminutive 5 foot tall Iranian Terrist is gonna strap explosives on, and take our hole in the ground hostage, or blow it up, or oh no...worse!! Maybe he'll go there and say crazy stuff, like...bush is killing people in the MidEast...or....Bush is attempting to start world war 3...or...Bush is responsible for killing far more than were killed in New York!!!
I fear that Ahmadinejad would do the unthinkable at Ground Zero. He might rhyme something with "Petraeus."
Let us hope Congress takes the appropriate action in time to save our Republic.
Compared to GW-Ahmadinejad is a Saint!
He's a damn publicity hound. Get his photo op if he gets there and if he doesn't, he gets to act all outraged in an attempt to make the US look bad...like we need any help with that.
Dumb fucks, 911 was an inside job. Let him visit/ view, to kill him here is easier anyway...
RickinSF @ 52:
Indeed, he knows he can't play the US media... there is more for him to gain by showing that the American "compasion" is just another hollywood make believe childish bullshit to the rest of the world. Just when America's credibility and world standing couldn't be any lower.
Geeze, I hit the link "welcoming party". I need a miltown.
You know I am as liberal as the next guy but I do have to say this stunt stinks. He is a state sponsor of terror. His country is providing weapons to those killing our soldiers. I know we should not be in Iraq in the first place but equally he should not be funding those who are fighting us.
He is also someone who has denied the holocaust, called for the destruction of Israel and I believe the US recently.
He will use this as some insane publicity stunt and I don't see how that honors anyone who died there.
I say keep him away. Out of respect and out of protest for his actions. He has every right to go to the UN. We also have every right to deny him access to other parts of the country if we choose.
I just get a feeling he would lay the wreath, go home and the headlines in the Arab world would be something like "he laid a wreath to honor the dead martyrs of that day" or something. This guy is really unstable, as we have seen. Why stir the pot.
I don't think the Malkin idea of mobs being there is right but I do think those in power in NY have every right to refuse him.
We all know there are bad guys in the world, he is one, let's not give him any more than we need. Someday under President Clinton, Edwards or Obama we might have a change in how we deal with Iran. Until then it is best we keep him on a short leash, especially while he is actually helping those who are fighting us in Iraq.
Are you like me?Do you get the feeling that Ms. Malkin doesn't like the President of Iran?
BTW,her concern over the rights of the citizens of Iran is terribly touching don't you feel?
Considering she wants to nuke the place to atoms?
mudshark @ 62:
If Ahmadinejad was another Bush (what's to say U.S. has the monopoly on morons in power?) I'd see this as an option he'd take. I don't think he is; more like Putin I'd hazard. In which case either the request is false (made up to cause outrage) or he just sees U.S. public opinion being of little significance.
I know, Iranians aren't Arabs, they were against Saddam before U.S. was, but there was the whole hostage thing that really started off the American as Victim theme. This "request" seems... I don't know, fnord?
nativeokie @ 73:
I suppose the guy right next to you must be a bona fide right wing fascist, because indeed you are as "liberal" as he is. Just pretend a little bit better, the slew of right wing talking points are a dead give away, come on!
nativeokie @ 73:
OK , heartland gal, guy...the good ole US of A supports...¨state sponsered terrorism¨...by your reasoning... why is this guy in the country? 911 was an inside job.
shheeeeit, every nutjob rightwinger with a bigot stiffy and a chip on his shoulder will be there to beat up the Iranian President.
The incompetent Bush admin knows it because they have heaped fearmongering on top of the ordinary nasty and bigoted feelings of otherness rampant in our country.
As for Malkin I am on the don't call Malkin a very nasty name wagon going on oh a year and half now. Ohh I need a drink.
Sorry Doctor Who but you are wrong if you have ever read my post. But I appreciate you thinking that if I don't think like you I must be wrong. That is very George Bush of you.
Thanks for linking to Michelle Malkin. I just learned by going there that she's did a 180 in June.
Remember she wrote a book calling for the internment of Muslims in concentration camps.
But now she really really cares about the plight of Muslims in Iran.
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/25/the-human-rights-outrage-in-iranand...
So her transformation is really amazing. I had no idea she cared!
Surely she'll ask for all copies of "The Case for Internment" to be taken off store shelves across the country.
I haven't read through all the posts, so this may have already been mentioned. This story was on the Today Show this morning (maybe an entire minute was spent on it) and I caught a bit of a story today at work on Fox News (the TV in the kitchen is ALWAYS on Fox News, even after I change it - some fool changes it back within minutes). Both pieces included the remark that letting Ahmadinejad at the site would be like allowing Osama Bin Laden there. Amazing how the media is still trying to fool everyone (it's working) into believe Iraq or Iran (or both) had anything to do with 9/11.
nativeokie @ 73:
Factually incorrect. He is NOT a state sponsor of terror. Ahmadinejad has no control of the military factions...that is reserved for the mullahs. Let's be clear: EVERYONE in the middle east has vested interest in what's going on in Iraq. Saudi Arabia is also providing weapons that are killing our soldiers. They also funded the 19 terrorists that committed 9/11. What Ahmadinejad is doing is what everyone should expect other middle eastern countries to do: protect their interests.
Debunked rhetoric coming directly from the White House. Google Juan Cole if you don't believe me. It might interest you to know that Iranians said on 9/11 "We are all Americans today" and held candlelight vigils for our victims. Funny how being called a terrorist and part of the Axis of Evil makes you feel not so inclined to be nice any longer.
This is the same kind of blinded non-diplomatic reactionary responses that have made us the scorn and scourge in the very area of the world that we seek to stabilize.
There's no question that Ahmadinejad enjoys being a gadfly...it's macho posturing from the great White Devil that keeps demonizing Iran. Please keep in mind that the Iranian empire has been around for millenniums beyond the over-important US and has contributed much to the world...try looking at it from their point of view. There's absolutely no reason to believe that he would do as you suggest. Other than believing the PR from the White House.
Hate to break this to you...but evidence and world opinion is that Ahmadinejad is NOT the bad guy on the world front right now.
nativeokie @ 73:
What?
If you are a zionist you may see him that way. I do not. I am not a zionist.
Search the net for news regarding Iran and Kurdistan. You wont find anything in the US, but you will on arab and kurd sites. The Kurds are inciting incidents in both Turkey and Iran. A group of Kurds recently attacked and damaged the center of government in western Iran - which the Kurds call S.E. Kurdistan as I recall. Iran has been striking back. Similar with Turkey. As to a broader support of the shia in Iraq ... could be. Would you say Iran has greater national interests in Iraq than the US? I would. If you wouldnt, then I suggest becoming familiar with the history of the area. If Iran has national interests in Iraq - and I think they do - then they surely have as much right acting as the US.
You cant say 'He' is a 'state' sponsor of terror. 'He' is not a 'state'.
We need to clear our thinking on this issue of Iran. The US is the aggressor not the insurgents and not Iran. Saudi Arabia needs to be identified as being responsible for the attacks (funding and personell at the very least) on 9/11 and as such needs to be labelled a state sponsor of terror.
Thing Fish @ 74:
Americans are no victims, they are short memoried morons. During the hostage crisis no American hostages died. Less than a decade later the US shot down an Iranian jet liner killing almost 300 innocent civilians. Never mind that the hostage crisis was part of the blow back regarding the US-led coup which obliterated Iran's democracy in the 50s and installed the Sha and his reign of American-backed fun and games on the Iranian population.
There seem to be 2 countries in this issume. America and Iran. Of the two one has an actual nuclear arsenal, of the two only one has used a nuclear weapon (two in fact) in anger, of the two only one has invaded a sovereign nation and killed tens of thousand if not hundred of thousands of innocent civilians. Yet Iran is supposed to be the bad guy because they are supposed to support Arab terrorism, with no proven links and overlooking the little detail that Arabs are their mortal enemies, Iran may or may not support Shia militias who are defending themselves against an invading force. And we are supposed to take the proof at sheer face value for an administration that what doesn't lie about declares it as secret?
Sorry, America can't have their cake and eat it too... no matter how many John Wayne movies we made in the past. We are not the ones to request morality when we are the biggest perverts in the block.
Thing Fish @ 74:
The hostage thing was about the CIA and the Savak. There were Americans all over Iran at the time and the ones that were take into custody were from the Embassy - CIA and embassy personel. I remember how much effort they put into reassembling shredded documents - CIA - demonstrating their focus. (They did it too, much to the dismay of the CIA). I remember at the time understanding what they were doing while thinking Khomeni was odd - saying the US was the whore of babylon etc. I have come to agree with him sadly. Guess that makes me odd.
nativeokie @ 78:
Please provide a confirmed link between Iran and 9/11. Why is it OK for the US to invade a sovereign country, but bad when some one supports their ideological allies against an invasion? Never mind that there is no confirmed links between Iran and the Iraqui insurgency. Also it was nice of you to refer to the completely sutpid remarks that were oh so mistranslated by the Jackass leader of Iran. All of these are the wonderful talking points of the right noise machine. Neither of which is verifiable, all which are based on innuendo.
Yes, indeed you as liberal as the next one, right...
anon @ 82:
Truer words haven't been written in a long time. At least there are some adults out there...
You guys really should get over yourselves. You have swallowed propaganda like an extra helping of pizza! Who gives a hoot if a foreign leader wishes to extend their condolences for the deaths of 9/11? Iranians have suffered FAR WORSE!!!
American's are so ego centric it's UNBELIEVABLE! The rest of the world deals with acts of terrorism almost on a DAILY basis yet we act like 9/11 nuked half our country!
Please, do the world a favor and educate yourself on world politics. Most comments on this page are steeped in ignorance and social narcissism.
GET OVER IT!
Doctor Who @ 75:
Love it when someone awake nails these twits. If it reads like a Hannity, and sounds like an O'Really, then it must be a Malkin.
Took a look at her blog.
She is unhinged like Congress and think it would be great if Iamanutjob proposes a peace plan to make them look like fools.
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/shoveit.jpg
Geez.
I suppose we could get into a weeks-long wrangle about what "liberal" means, but whenever someone starts a discourse with a profession of being "liberal" the hair on my neck stands up.
Same reaction I have when someone starts out with: "...I might not sound politically correct, but ..etc."
Picking just one to quote:
Right. All "Arabs" look alike. Is there much point in trying to deny that Americans are racists? If 9/11 was done by Africans, every country on their continent would be criminals; if by Latinos, all countries south of the border would be complicit. Put 'em all in the same burlap sack, and while we are at it, throw the sack in the lake.
The worst thing that ever happened in America was 24-hour "news" channels. A seemingly good idea really ended up finding the lowest common denominator, and that was "Stupidity Sells". Filling up those hours wasn't easy, but it had to be profitable, so what else could have happened but pandering to the least capable, the mental midgets?
You know, Iranians were one of the few peoples in the middle east to actually hold vigils in solidarity with America after 9/11.
Google it. Do a lexis nexis search. You'll see.
Sometimes you have to separate the leader from the people.
After all Bush is not everything America is.
Accept Amaja what ever his name is, gesture as a reconciliation with the Iranian people.
nativeokie @ 78:
Hey Native...it's cool. Just try to keep up. The talk of 'state sponsor of terror' is so thin. WE sponsor groups that are killing OUR soldiers. WE are arming Sunni and Shia in IRAQ because bush didn't know the difference until the war started.
Okay I give up let him go. He is not a bad guy (the murder of gays for being gay is just fine isn't it), no Iranian weapons are killing US soldiers (despite reports some of you just can't believe because it does not fit your views). He is doing this because he really cares (like he cares about the rights of his people). George Bush caused 9/11 (that comment alone should get you a good year in a mental institution). He is the president of a country but has no power (limited power maybe but still he has control). Iran has been around longer than the US so they are better than us (America bad, America bad). Kurds bad - Iran good (I can't wrap my mind around this one). I am a zionist.(wow, just wow) I am incapable of forming an opinion without the white house telling me what it is (and to think I spend every day hating them). Everyone in the media is wrong, only C&L readers know the truth (right, 9/11 is our fault remember).
And Dr. Who I did not ever say there was a link between 9/11 and Iran. Why would I give that too you. That is as stupid as the people who think we did it. Well almost as stupid I should say.
Sorry I don't conform to your views. If this is what liberal means today I see why the front running democrats refuse to call themselves liberal. This stuff is as nutty as the right wing crap.
Sorry to post two in a row, but I have to ask:
Why should anyone have to ASK to go to the WTC site?
Is this Germany, circa 1939? Brave New World? 7th grade study hall?
The only dissagrement I've ever had with Mahmoud was over his crazy contention that the holocaust was more fiction than fact.
Doctor Who @ 83:
anon @ 84:
Tell me something I don't know. My point is that ask most any American and all they'll know about Iran is the how they took "hostages." Necessary Illusions are the hardest to dispel.
The purpose of this request seems only to inflame emotion. Question I have is who's promoting this request? To me it seems only to benefit those wanting a war.
Is the site of the fallen towers now holy ground? A fucking golden dome mosque or some such bullshit? I don't care if the man is a holocaust denier or stones women or whatever, if you're letting him in the country as a foreign dignatary you might as well hold your nose while he does site seeing. I think the real problem is if you put the man in leg irons and sent him off to human rights courts you'd have to make a big conga line with all the US neo con proto fascist fuckers in tow and that'd be a damn sight fucking embarrasing wouldn't it. Christ you can smell the shit gobs of hypocracy dripping buckets off this one. Where's the memorial for Mosadeq, time man of the year '51 run out of his own country by the CIA?
Lets start the conga line to the towers!
SteveGinIL @ 95:
I saw a wonderful video recently on stage6 ...
http://stage6.divx.com/user/czechie/video/1626422/Trip-to-New-York-City-...
... the videographer at one point goes to ground zero. It is walled off. Probably insurance issues. The are starting (the wrong) reconstruction plan and I'm sure they dont want any of the 20 million people on the island wandering by. :)
America has a long history of backing repressive Islamic fundamentalist regimes who are REALLY responsible for inflicting the kind of misery on the people Malkin--in her stomach churning hypocrisy--pretends to care about,when it suits her.
When she's not calling for carpet bombings.
Thing Fish @ 97:
This isnt the first. There have not only been others but others have tried to donate money. I suspect the actual US position on this is not well understood outside the US. The site is walled - probably for insurance. His request may have had more to do with permission to go beyond the 'wall' as it did permission as an Iranian to do it. (If I made that clear :( ) Hard to say. Even if it is a stunt, it is less of a stunt than Bush using the USS Lincoln as a prop or for that matter the soldiers everywhere he goes. Sometimes things are just what they seem. Maybe that true here.
Ahmadinejad is one of the most levelheaded world leaders around, he is articulate, calm and a brilliant diplomat and politician. He doesn't need to go to Ground Zero for a photo op. Does anyone truly believe that he never anticipated the U.S. response to his request? You bet he did and he called our bluff. We fell --like someone says --for it hook, line and sinker. He has made the point, displaying an olive branch and we responded exactly the way he expected and showed the world who is for peace and who is not. He knows what the stakes are and the rest of the world knows how bellicose the U.S. is. He wins hands down. Iran is a proud nation and has never invaded another country execpt in self defence. Ever . Ever.
They have oil and the U.S. is apolplectic with envy. When the U.S. invades Iran, and it will, guess who the rest of the world will side with? Funny: When Israel never signed the non-proliferation treaty and built a bomb anyway, how come the U.S. didn't invade Israel?
nativeokie @ 94:
I can understand your position if you only have main stream media sources for information. What you need to understand is most of what is happening out there isnt reported in here. You must go to sources overseas to find out what is going on. Sadly. Things just arent as they appear. We have a for profit media (notice I didnt say news) that focuses on profits. Follow Rathers law suit. I have a feeling some of the connections between profits for media parent companies and politics are about to be exposed. Hard to say.
The founders expected NEWS to inform the public and protect the republic. We no longer have NEWS, we have media. Study Ruppert Murdoch.
"George Bush caused 9/11 (that comment alone should get you a good year in a mental institution)"
I agree-it seems reasonable to assume that he was--and is--simply inept.
The Bush Gang was more interested in putting nukes in space than in terrorism.
They were warned repeatedly to focus on terror by any number of agencies.
They didn't:rather,they failed.Utterly.
anon @ 101:
I'd still like to see the basis of this request attributed to Ahmadinejad. I still have the lingering question. Such as who does this announcement benefit?
I disagree that Ahmadinejad is asking for trouble. He is a world leader coming to pay his respects. He is paying his respects to an event, which through no fault of his or his people, may have a profound effect on them with U.S aggression.
Remember, it is the U.S who has attacked Iran's neighbour under false pretenses. It is the U.S who has labelled Iran a target. It is the U.S. which has made direct threats against the state of Iran.
The likes of Malkin will beat the wardrums against Iran based on the Whitehouse's timetable, not Ahmadinejads. Remember, it is only due to the Whitehouse that Iran could be considered a threat at all.
I really do wish that the American public wake themselves from this violent frenzy they are building themselves up to. Sadly, I don't see it happening until yet another war has been started.
=my2c
BC
the guy comes here to the UN and while he's here he wants to pay his respect..and this admin says fuck you......now thats diplomacy Texas style.....
Late to the party, but would like to include my own two cents, even though these differ little from others. Seriously, who would be hurt by having Ahmadinejad lay a wreath at the ground zero site? Who would be hurt other than those like Malkin, who love death and want us to go to war with Iran? I don't want war with Iran? Iran is NOT a threat to this country. Maybe this gesture might calm things down. And maybe, just maybe the Malkins of this war (as in the human trash) will burn in hell for eternity. Wouldn't that be nice?
What ever anyone believes about Ahmadinejad,it would be naive to assume that politics isn't playing a large part in this particular play.
Yes,he IS bright-bright enough to know that his country is in great peril.
Looking like a man of true compassion and learning(whether he is or not)may help his cause internationally,if Washington decides to pull the pin and launch yet another preemptive war.
nativeokie @ 94:
What is it with people like you? Ahmadenejad is not a good guy, nor is the regime for which he is a front. But the whole point here is to calm tensions, especially given that quite a few in our administration (i.e. the Cheney thugs) want war with Iran. That means more unnecessary death (Iran is NOT a threat to us) and more wasted lives. Is that what you want? Oh, and why do you have this big chip on your shoulder? Do you ever bother to go beyond your stereotypes of liberals?
lawl.
BC @ 106:
i really wish that liberals the would stop saying that we install the shad in iran and that we are the aggressors. when you use the world we, the american people felt that you are saying that they are the one who commited the crime, and many become more defensive than listen to the liberals. you must reframe the debate just like what george lakoff said in, "don't think of a elephant."
the right wing have think tank that understood the meaning of world, so that is why, they would often demonize the liberal at any chance they get. saying that liberals love terrorist et al. when you debate with a neocon or whatever you must said, the reason why iran is fuck up or see as an enemy who hate america is because the conservative install the shad in iran. with the support of the conservative, the shad run the most evil, brutal regime ever image. the iranian was so full of rage, that they overthrown the gov.t and the mullah came into powers. the iranian have long memory, and that is why they hate the conservative. they don't hate america because we have freedom, they hate the conservative because the conservative have been over there, the conservative have been bombing them for years. so it is all the conservative fault.
remember, reframe the debate. just like the con use the world every single time to make them look bad we must use the word conservative to make them look bad.
see, you are doing what the conservative want. they know that they can win with the truth so they said that we liberals hate america by blaming them first. you should of written:
remember, it is the conservative who attack the iranian neighbor under false pretenses. it is the conservative who label iran a target. it is the conservative which has made direct iran could be considered a threat at all.
i really wish that the american public would wake up themselves fromt heir violent frenzy that the conservative are building up for them. i don't see it happening until yet another war the conservative haave been started.
you must blame the conservative, that the american people. that way you can still tell the truth and smear the con at the same time.
Michelle's Eugenicism and Daddy Fetishism know no bounds
Train @ 19:
Since he in the U.S. as a foreign diplomat, his movement is limited to that allowed by the host country.
SteveGinIL @ 96:
When diplomats and world leaders gather at the U.N. in September special arrangements are made in terms of traffic rerouting and security. In this case, arrangements would have to be made and police escort will have to be provided to bring Ahmadinejad'ss motorcade to ground zero.
if it were not for all the hypocritical bastards in the gop, this could have been a very positive gesture. it's also a sign of what is terribly wrong in America. everything that has been good has become bad. a compliment is now considered an insult. ask a woman out and you have a harrassment case in court.
a world leader we should be diplomatically engaged with has offered a warm gesture and the fucking gop wants his head. i am embarrassed to be an american. fuck all of you ass-wipes of hate and violence.
Pretty brave, him coming to a country that doesn't even protect or submit to the right of habeas corpus. Oh no Mahmoud, you can't go to ground zero and make any kind of gesture, this is the Untied States of Xenophobia! "Oh my God, what if he used that gesture as a photo opportunity?" Why that's not allowed here in the Untied States of Xenophobia, that’s only allowed by Chimpy McDumbfuck to sell the latest lie, the latest war, the latest crime! Watch out Iran haters, that one guy with a mouth not quite as big as our own precious douche bag, idiot, dog turd, murderous, war criminal, lying shitbag, corporate cocksucker of a (p)resident is coming to ground zero! Not the man the press fears the most (this week)! Noooooo! Ground Zero is the most sacred place in the Untied States, the place where democracy died along with some 3000 other people. Sure, Iran presents a great opportunity for some American diplomacy and influence and maybe some outright cooperation and peace in the Middle East but of course, we’re back in the fucking dark ages now with King George (and Co.) in charge so there’s no hope for any good ideas. I'm so happy a Senate resolution passed to that people can't defame General Anus! He's a wonderful person whom I admire with utmost contempt!
SteveGinIL @ 96:
Most likely the reason he is asking is because he is a civil person and he knows he will be in the land of the Beast Who Bombs and is showing respect to the citizens, not the politicians.
Find out how close they'll let him get.
Get a human chain of "protestors" together, just citizens, caring citizens. Let him give the wreath to one of them... then they can pass it along, till the final person places it at the site.
Why stop him? Weren't most of the hijackers Saudi Arabian citizens?
If Mamoud Amajinedad wants to pay tribute to the victims of 9/11 then he should be allowed to. Iran had nothing to do with 9/11 and the government condemned the acts, more importantly the people of Iran condemed the actions of the hijackers as well and went so far as to hold pro American rallys in the streets which the government condoned.
I really think it's a respectful thing to do even if our countries are not in best terms.
The USA paid tribute to Yuri Gagarin when he died too.
Seeing the reaction from most places to this announcement that he wanted to visit the WTC is maddening.
I'm a New Yorker and I don't mind if he visited at all, because I'm not a moron who has no idea what's going on in the world.
Im also finding it hard to believe that fellow Americans are bloodthirsty, hate Iran, and wish for more death when I read comments in places like Michelle Malkin's site. It has to be all a big joke
Once again Ahmanijinaded outplays the west.
He wasn't going to go. He knew what the reaction would be.
He made us look like total jackasses to the rest of the world.
Now everyone knows we are just rubes.
I see that Rupert's rag the New York Post had Ahmadinejad on the cover, calling him "evil." All over the MSM they're falling in line for Bush's next war, and the American people are going to fall for it again?!
Have any U.S. presidents visited Hiroshima or Nagasaki?
Pretending to be a Warmonger:
Sure visit Ground Zero. While he's here, let's invade Iran and hold him hostage. We're going to attack them anyway.
Once again, the world sees us as confused and ignorant. Just for the record,didn't some Iranians die in the World Trade Center on 9/11?
But meanwhile, the reichwingers kiss the asses of the corrupt Saudi assholes who were more responsible for 9/11 than anyone else.
This is the kind of diplomacy and dialogue the warmongers and their lackies believe in:
http://www.house.gov/fossella/
His letter to Condi:
http://www.house.gov/fossella/.....inejad.pdf
http://www.nypost.com/
Fixed PDF link:
http://www.house.gov/fossella/download/ahmadinejad.pdf
Mcduff: As we have seen with Iraq, once a decision has been made, there is no retreat. Beating the drums of war with lies and propoganda are the expected course of events just as in Iraq. Unlike FDR, Bush has only fear itself to offer. The US has NOT even made the slightest case that Iran is an imminent threat, just as in Iraq. History repeating itself before our eyes. But a false flag WILL present itself, you can bet on it. Leo Straussians know that perpetual lies and perpetual war are mandatory. And look at the double standards of hypocrisy with India and Israel when dealing with nuclear issues. And where is Pelosi in all this? Even without the votes you'd think she'd at least pretend to be concerned, but oops!! I forget, she's promised Israel to keep mum. Silly me.
Have all those bastions of higher thought and higher learning, all those folks once looked up to, gone mentally insane? The whole situation gets more and more ridiculous and more removed from any common sense on a moment-by-moment basis. Grow up and act like adults, Mr., Mrs, and Ms. America. I expect children to act like children and I expect adults to act and behave like adults. Grow up!!
Of course Malkin wouldn't have the guts to be there front and center, she should either put up or shut up.
Sorry, but somebody needs to shoot this anti-Semitic squinting dwarf and so-called Iranian president.
He's a disgusting holocaust denier and cretin. Yes, Bush is an idiot. But this creep shouldn't be allowed in the United States.
He held a holocaust denial conference attended by David Duke. Why are they inviting this creep to speak at Columbia? He should be a pariah.
So whose idea was this anyway? Irans? Ahmadinejad personally?? I don't know what I think of this 'request'...I guess I think basically its too soon. Shouldn't be, but for a multitude of reasons, both good, bad and/or illogical its just too soon for something like this to happen here. What with all the bad blood the Bush administration is trying to stir up, he might be better off just going to the U.N and making some kind of speech or comments paying respects to ground zero and its victims... I more or less agree with Holly Moore that we should get over it... And we should... And probably will... In another 20 or 30 years most likely... Some things needs a new generation in order to put that kind of national pain behind a culture.. And sometimes even that doesn't do it....
I am not at all convinced with all the back and forth moaning about this, that it is solely rooted in 9/11. Where 9/11 is concerned the Iran connection is not really rational. Given the facts known about that horrific crime, the response doesn't make sense. I'm thinkin it ain't just about ground zero where Iran is concerned. There's still, I think bad feelings and animosity towards Iran over the 79 hostage crisis... Yes. I know, that's gettin to be a bit back in time.. But, consider this.. Some of the middle easts anger at the west goes back to WWI and before.. So the idea that a national or cultural grudge can be held for generations is pretty well established whether that's rational, moral or not. So if we as a nation are being accused of being petty in this instance, and it looks like some are inferring that even here, all I can say is we aren't the only ones and we didn't solely write that grudge book all by ourselves... History shows many examples.
I know what I see and read about Iran and its leader and realize x amount of it is just utter bullshit put out by the GOP for political spin reasons... That said I think Ahmadinejad is a bit of a showman and publicity hound... Self Aggrandizement isn't the best basis from which to try diplomacy. But then our leaders are just as bad about pulicity... So are most world leaders to some extent... Given the fact that the Bushies and GOP like to change the face of the badguy to suit their needs, and with Hussein gone from the stage, this weeks bad guy is the little 5 foot nutin Iranian... Personally I think Iran and the Persian culture is an old and historically rich culture with which much good could be shared back and forth and I hope in the future that our two nations and cultures will be able to put the past in perspective and leave all that animosity and yes, hatred behind.
Alas, that's not going to happen with this visit.. Perhaps if it was 2030 or 2040 and the Bush adminstration, these last seven years, and all the hate and pain of the later half of the 20th century has finally become a fading bad memory, then an overture by any middle east leader to pay proper respects to this place might be better received... As long as Bush remains in power and the GOP remains committed to stirring up bad blood and finding boogiemen to war with, this (whether theoritically interesting diplomatically) is just a bad idea as a practical matter... I wish it wasn't the case... But then I also wish we had never been afflicted with this catatrophe of a presidency....
But setting animosity and suspicians and hatred aside isn't going to happen in the current social and political climate. Just ain't.. Whether or not it should is a completely different question. Therefore this is one example that qualifies my statement that it is too soon. Frankly Ahmadinejad wanting to do this under these conditions, (sabor rattling on both sides) and at this time, (a scant 6 years after the event) ends up looking like a poorly thought out publicity stunt or else a just a Ahmadinejad diplomatic poke in Bush's eye, rather than a diplomatic move to mend riffs.... It's almost like the following scenario... WWII rages in the pacific to a bloody deadlock by 45.... A truce is declared. And with Japan still a major power (in this alternative scenario), a message is sent to D.C. that Tojo wants to visit Pearl Harbor under some kind of diplimatic shield to pay 'respects' to the victims of that attack... Nutty idea, nutty scenario... And it would have never been allowed. And so is this one under present circumstances. In fact everything about this situation from the desire to visit NY at all with Bush seeming dead set to start something with Iran to our national response to the Iranian idea... Really, everything about this .... It's all just utter weird bullshit..... We as nations need to be actively engaged in mending all the other riffs that exist between our cultures before we start sending our national leaders back and forth visting each others national shrines... Another cart before the horse situation I think....JD
My suggestion to be totally ignored.. Wait a few years.. At least wait until Bush is out of power
113 boxerfan
I wear thongs and am 100 pounds overweight.
ysbaddaden @ 136:
Ysbaddaden....for some reason I don't think your overweight..
Regarding Iran and Amadinejad:
I will offer a source I consider reliable -- former Mossad Agt named Ari Ben Menashe -- who was exonerated in US Federal Court for selling weapons to Iran, during the Hostage Crisis. He was able to provide documentation proving he was working in official capacity for Mossad when he sold those weapons, though by then they had dumped him and denied knowing who he was.
In his book, Profits of War, he describes taking a suitcase filled with $56 million of the CIA's money, from the Saudi Ambassador in Guatemala, to a Swiss bank, for Iranians to buy weapons. Current Defense Secretary Robert Gates (former Deputy Dir CIA under Bush Sr.) met him at the Miami Airport.
This was one of MANY similar operations (described in much detail) which he ran to procure overpriced used weapons for Iran, from Poland, North Korea, Uganda, and other locations. The Mossad plan was to use Iranian soldiers in place of Israeli soldiers, as a proxy response to Iraq, at the same time as the US was arming Iraq and goading them to attack Iran. The profits were used for a Mossad "slush fund".
(So in one sense, Israel was secretly working against the US, and when Carter was tipped off, he was reportedly outraged with Begin. On the other hand, Kissinger suggested that it be best that both Iran and Iraq "bleed each other white", making each country weaker due to millions of deaths. That's some real ruthless realpolitik.)
Ben Menashe also describes personally watching Casey and Bush Senior exit different elevators in a European Hotel, walk into a conference room with the Iranian Mullahs, and shut the door. This closing act occurred after a long dragged-out delay in concluding pending weapons deals, a short time before Reagan was inaugurated. (Obviously, this was LONG before Iran-Contra. Ollie North got exposed in the press trying to open up his own "back-channel" for selling overpriced weapons to Iran, years before the Hasenfus plane crashed in Nicaragua, officially blowing the operation. Why is North held in esteem as a patriot, if Amadinejad is damned? North was committing treason, not Iranians.)
During the repeated delays, Ben Menashe's moderate Iranian counterpart expressed extreme frustration at being forced to KEEP the hostages beyond their sell date. They wanted weapons, not humans, not hungry and needy prisoners which they needed to at least feed and watch. The prisoners had become a burden, but the Republicans were offering them a better deal. And these Iranian colleagues understood American politics well enough to grasp WHY the delays from Bush and company.
Robert Parry in the US covered the same info on Consortium News, and he uncovered documents about the coverup of arming Iran during the Hostage Crisis, but the Democrats and Liberal Media squashed him in defense of the Republicans.
I wish I could say otherwise about the Dems, but what can one say when they KNOW that Carter got screwed by illegal back room dealings, yet chose to 'keep' the illegitimate Reagan and whine about things, rather than go public with the outrage and demand justice. Kinda like today with Bush.
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