The Grand Obstructionist Party
By Steve Benen Wednesday Sep 19, 2007 12:49pmLooking over this week’s headlines thus far, a trend emerges — Republican blocked a habeas corpus bill from coming to a vote. They also blocked a bill to give DC residents a voice in Congress from coming to a vote. Republican are looking at Jim Webb’s amendment to give troops equal time off for the time they spend in combat and they want to block it from coming to a vote. The Senate Democratic leadership is working on a funding bill for Iraq that includes a withdrawal timeline, which Republicans will block from coming to a vote.
And that’s just from news items yesterday. Kevin Drum highlights the problem we’ve been watching all year.
Republicans aren’t just obstructing legislation at normal rates. They’re obstructing legislation at three times the usual rate. They’re absolutely desperate to keep this stuff off the president’s desk, where the only choice is to either sign it or else take the blame for a high-profile veto.
As things stand, though, Republicans will largely avoid blame for their tactics. After all, the first story linked above says only that the DC bill “came up short in the Senate” and the second one that the habeas bill “fell short in the Senate.” You have to read with a gimlet eye to figure out how the vote actually broke down, and casual readers will come away thinking that the bills failed because of some kind of generic Washington gridlock, not GOP obstructionism. […]
Would it really be so hard for reporters to make it clear exactly who’s responsible for blocking these bills?
Good question. The only resolution to GOP obstructionism is public outrage, which might encourage the GOP to allow the Senate to start voting on bills again, and which might happen if reporters gave it to us straight.
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"Well we have the media"
Ann Coulter
Son't expect the media to help. WOT.
Don't (sheesh).
It's ridiculous that the AP headline is "Senate blocks bill on Iraq combat tours" instead of "GOP Senators block bill on Iraq combat tours" or "GOP Senators block bill for soldiers to spend more time at home."
Nothing will happen because of the media, as pointed out by Eric.
"up or down vote was so 2005"-Mitch Mcchinless
Obstruction requires someone to comply with that obstruction. Nothing says the DNC has to recognize illusory power. GOP may be obstruting, but the DNC can't figure out how to bypass this obstruction. The DNC could zero-out funds; and pass bills in the House and Senate without a conference committee. The DNC Chairs can block bills from going to debate. The DNC could pass bills saying the funding for Iraq will end on X-date. On all counts, the DNC refuses.
don't expect the
word obstructionist
out of any of the dems mouths
the repubs have it copyrighted
heh...
If they block everything, they can run on the theory that this was a 'do nothing Democratic majority-led Congress'.
Meanwhile thousands of Iraqis and Americans continue to die needlessly.
Shame the Dems can't learn how to block the desires of the other party. They're basicly worthless.
Since Republicans won't let democrates have a voice in this war, it's time for democrates to defund this war.
Media and Voting, Media and Voting, Media and Voting, Media and Voting, Media and Voting, Media and Voting, Media and Voting, Media and Voting...
Whoever controls the media and voting CONTROLS THE COUNTRY.
This is how the neo-cons took over the country and this is how we will get it back.
It doesn't matter one bit that the Democrats made an effort to alter Habeas or end the occupation...All that matters is how the majority of Americans perceive what happened.
If the Democrats were a serious opposition party the first thing they'd of done if break up the media monopolies, restore the fairness doctrine and made voting on paper and auditable.
Don't you people get it?
If the Republicans are in the majority then it's the Democrats who block legislation.
If the Democrats are in the majority then it's the Democrats who fail to pass legislation.
Anyway, that's what the media tells me.
San Francisco Chronicle, Sep 20, page A16: "Time limit for Iraq tours blocked - Senate vote falls 4 short of being filibuster, veto proof"
The 7th paragraph finally mentions the word 'republican' and it's to mention how many did vote for it.
Page A16.
Front page story is about the health risks of scented air fresheners.
I believe the media should continue supporting this war as they have been all along by running to any bush talking points speech no matter where it is found and how few attend or have to attend it. Why worry the average citizen with the details..
Speaking of screwing us over, apparently the Dems are considering doing just that. Via Glen Greenwald:
Are Democrats Planning Still Worse FISA Capitulations?
(excerpt)
Buried within an article in the New York Times this morning from James Risen is this passage, strongly suggesting that Congressional Democrats are ready, as always, to do what they are told:
Mr. McConnell argued on Tuesday that the expanded surveillance powers granted under the temporary measure should be made permanent. He also pushed for a provision that would grant legal immunity to the telecommunications companies that secretly cooperated with the N.S.A. on the warrantless program. Those companies, now facing lawsuits, have never been officially identified.
Democratic Congressional aides say they believe that a deal is likely to provide protection for the companies.
Granting retroactive immunity to telecom companies for past lawbreaking is so plainly unjustifiable, even dangerous, that it ought to require no real debate. That Congressional Democrats are even considering submitting to this demand, let alone that they are likely to do so, dispels any doubt about what they really are. First, retroactive immunity turns the “rule of law” into an even greater mockery than it has been for the last six years. The central premise in granting immunity is that telecom companies did nothing wrong — even if they violated the law — because they cooperated with warrantless spying at the behest of the President.
But we don’t actually live in a country where private actors are permitted to commit crimes and violate laws provided that the President tells them that they should. The President has no greater power to authorize others to break the law than he does to break the law himself. Quite the contrary, Article II of the Constitution imposes the opposite obligation: “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” Lawbreaking is still illegal even if George Bush says it should be done. Does that principle really need to be explained?
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/19/3940/
Keep the pressure up on our 'savior' Dems, who've already given Bush a blank check and extended his illegal spying: Threaten them with their jobs! They refuse to end the war and keep caving to Bush. Put the fear of angry Americans back into them.
September 20th, 2007 at 11:00 AM - PDT
6 Curious Says:
Obstruction requires someone to comply with that obstruction. Nothing says the DNC has to recognize illusory power. GOP may be obstruting, but the DNC can’t figure out how to bypass this obstruction. The DNC could zero-out funds; and pass bills in the House and Senate without a conference committee. The DNC Chairs can block bills from going to debate. The DNC could pass bills saying the funding for Iraq will end on X-date. On all counts, the DNC refuses.
------------------------------------------------------
In this case we need to hold the democrates to account and have themexplain why they won't use these tactics.
Reposting from an earlier comment because it is relevant here as well:
"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world - no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." - Former President Woodrow Wilson
Where is the post on today's MoveOn votes? The Democrats are sallies and the Republicans hate any troops that aren't registered Republicans.
The only resolution to GOP obstructionism is public outrage
You mean like what we have now? The same outrage that the media insulates the leaders from and tells them that 'the surge is working and people want to keep going'?
The sad fact of the matter is this: the public doesn't matter anymore. Because the media has successfully convinced the leaders in Washington of every exact opposite of what the public wants. Who cares if the public yawned at the Petraeus ad? The media said it was bad for Democrats, so that's what Congress and the great minds in Washington operate on, instead of the fact that the vast majority of the public WANT THE HELL OUT.
Eric Jaffa @ 3:
are you sure it was a Republican that called for the cloture vote??
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/20/83313/0324
looks like the Dems made a back room deal to me, all it would have taken was ONE objection, just one.
and Webb just sat there.
thumb squaa in ASS.
The GOP is using a classic GOP strategy, and one that we did not learn or use when we were the majority.
They know the American People are ignorant of government, how it works, or even who their representatives are.
So, the GOP obstructs legislation and in 2008 run against the ineffective Democratic Majority...who are also traitors, tree huggers, gay lovers, hate Christmas..the flag...mom and apple pie...etc etc etc.
Grand Obstructionist Party. . . No No No the Grotesque Obstructionist Perverts
damn SORRy..."and one that we did not learn or use when we were the minority."
The repug reps have all the impartiality of a french figure skating judge.
Obstructionists, Traitors and fascists that are destroying our Country need to be court marshalled and imprisoned.
--> GOP Senator Puts Secret Hold On Bill Restoring Public Access To Presidential Records
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/20/coburn-hold/
Veterans, Soldiers and the American People now know WHO the real enemies are
and the greatest threat to U.S. National Security:
#1 George W. Bush ( daddy's little rogue CIA war criminal with family ties to bin ladin )
#2 Richard D. Cheney ( yes he is part of this criminal executive branch - headed still undisclosed 2001 Energy and Enron meetings )
#3 Turncoat Republicans ( global elite and defense industry lobbyists )
#4 Aligned corrupt media pundits.
Democrats need to continue hearings immediately and make it known that Impeachment is NOT off the table or they will loose public support and face losses in 2008.
There are things that can be done to bypass the GOP. I disagree with the following assertion: "The only resolution to GOP obstructionism is public outrage, which might encourage the GOP to allow the Senate to start voting on bills again, and which might happen if reporters gave it to us straight."
Prosecutions are possible; states can lead grand jury reviews of Members of Congress conduct. It's also possible for the DNC to bypass the GOP, but the DNC refuses. The DNC Chairs could shut down funding; and agree to common bill language -- before the bill goes to either house, and agree to prohibit amendments, making a conference committee irrelevant.
Despite the DNC victory of 2006, the DNC refuses to check the GOP. There are options which the public can remind the DNC to use. If the DNC refuses, they can be prosecuted; and the public can support new leadership willing to defend the Constitution.
The Smiths Go To Washington @ 25:
DNC needs to explalin why it is not using secret holds to shut down funding for these Constitutional violations.
All the democrats have to do to end the war is not pass a spending bill. This whole not enough votes thing on the war is nonsense. Listen to Kucinich.
The Smiths Go To Washington @ 25:
#5 Spineless Democrats who allow illegal spying, blank checks for an illegal war, refusal to impeach the most corrupt administration in history, and back room deals on overdue legislation or defense of the Constitution. They fold faster than Superman on laundry day...
Curious Says:
"There are options which the public can remind the DNC to use."
A significant portion of "the public" can''t find Washington DC on a map and another significant portion think it's a state.
Options? Most of the public doesn't know how government in this country works.
eric @ 16:
Right, and one step in the right direction is to not call the GOP 'obstructionist' and call the DNC-GOP "complicit with excuses". This isn't just the GOP; and the error is to mislabel the problem. One way to hold the DNC to account is with direct prosecutions of Members of Congress for 5 USC 3331 violations.
I understand how the Dems can deal with funding. Just vote against any bill that does not contain a timetable for withdraw.
How do they PASS legislation without getting filibustered, or if they do get some Repub support, without a veto killing them?
Great comment over at TPM Election Central:
Democratic Senator = house elf
Curious @ 31:
Or call the leadership.........
Washington
528 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-3542 / Fax: 202-224-7327
Toll Free for Nevadans: 1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343) -Restricted to calls originating from area codes 775 and 702
[Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
JW @ 32:
Where there is a will there is a way.
I want to know why Reid isn't calling endless press conferences to force the MSM to cover this?
Liberal AND Proud @ 30:
Great. I appreciate the assessment of the "problem with the pubulic" but that misses the real problem: Leadership. To argue that "the problem" is with the "problem with the public" is, with all due respect to you, a smokescreen. It doesn't matter if "the public" knows or doesn't know anything. The idea of a Republic is to have represenatives in DC who do.
Ask the "responsibility" for this mess be put on the back of the "ignorant public" misses the point at the foundation of our Constitution and Republic: That of representation so individual representatives can be experts on the Constitution. Today's leadership would cast this fundamental principle aside, and pretend "the problem" is something else. This is a leadership problem: A decision of the DNC to not shut down funding for all things that this President is doing to violate the Constitution. The GOP has no power to squeeze anything, including money, out of an empty tube of toothpaste. The DNC keeps filling the tube, and blames the GOP for "blocking the DNC from putting the cap on."
Time to stop reacting to the GOP, and start acting like a majority party: Change the rules, redefine the problem, and put the Constitution and oath of office first. This DNC crew is stuck in the whiny, defeatist approach. They might as well stay home. Then we can find them to prosecute them for oath of office 5 USC 3331 violations.
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Peace @ 11:
Below is a prime example of my point. How many Americans out of 100 are aware of this important story?:
GOP Senator Puts Secret Hold On Bill Restoring Public Access To Presidential Records
In Nov. 2001, President Bush signed an executive order that historians called “unprecedented” and “would turn the 1978 Presidential Records Act on its head by allowing such materials to be kept secret ‘in perpetuity.’”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/20/coburn-hold/
LSUfan @ 40:
Are you smoking crack?
JW @ 32:
Something simpler is for the DNC Committee Chairs to table all funding bills; or attach to all appropriations, the restoration of Habeas. If the President refuses to restore habeas, he gets no funding. DNC refuses to put the Constitution and Geneva first.
As to your question: "How do they pass legislation without getting filibustered" misses the point: The Congress isn't required to do anything. The burden is on the President to convince Congress to give him money. DNC continues to give him funds, without getting the President to provide DoJ/RNC e-mails. Time for the DNC to play hardball: Shut down funding, send the US government employees home, and make the President read the Constitution.
Also, the State AG's have the power to do what Congress refuses: Prosecute a sitting President and Members of Congress.
[Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
New Study Shows 1.2 Million Iraqi Civilians Died In War
Submitted by davidswanson on Thu, 2007-09-20 11:49. Congress | Criminal Prosecution
Resolution Will Ask House To Investigate, Prefer Criminal Charges If Necessary
From the office of Congressman Dennis Kucinich
WASHINGTON, D.C. (September 19, 2007) — A British polling agency has determined that more than one million Iraqi citizens have died as a result of the Iraq war. This report follows survey results released last fall by Lancet, the prestigious medical magazine which gave a conservative estimate of 650,000 deaths. Opinion Research Business found that the death rate in Iraq increased by 1.2 million people since the U.S.-led invasion began in 2003.
“When you consider that this war was based on lies, when you consider that Iraq did not attack the United States, that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, it is an urgent matter of national morality to determine what the appropriate response is,” said Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH).
“It is time for us to start talking about the legal responsibility of President Bush, Vice President Cheney and all the other war architects who built a case for the war based on lies.
“The very essence of America’s credibility in the world is at stake. Our highest elected officials should be held accountable for actions that resulted in the deaths of more than a million innocent people, particularly when those deaths were based on demonstrable lies.
“It is very important that we start to ask serious questions about accountability. Just as no individual has the right to take another individual’s life, no nation has the right to kill innocent people in another nation. No leader of the United States--in the name of the United States--should be permitted to wage aggressive war with impunity.
“I am preparing a resolution that requests the House meet in the Committee of the Whole to investigate the matter of civilian causalities as well as U.S. troop casualties that have occurred in Iraq. The resolution will recount that the war was based on lies. It will ask the House to consider action, including possibly preferring criminal charges against individuals who in the Administrative conduct of office were directly responsible for the war and the consequent loss of life.
“A grave injustice has been done to the people of Iraq and the people of the United States. More than one million lives have been lost. Families have been destroyed. Social networks have been ripped apart. We have had many soldiers killed and injured. This must be acknowledged.
“On a deeper level, the inquiry I am proposing relates to who we are as Americans and what we stand for. I refuse to believe that the American people—people of intelligence and good heart will not want to see justice done. There must be a measure of justice brought forward so that this deep stain on American history is removed,” Kucinich concluded. “We must seek the truth, wherever it leads.”
JW @ 32:
You're missing the point on bills: The President needs money. If Congress attaches to all funding bills Habeas restoration -- and other things -- the President must decide. Put the problem on the back of the President.
And Webb votes to screw us over with illegal spying, then votes to condemn the Moveon.org ad. What courage! Particularly since Moveon played a large role in getting his turncoat @ss elected. Webb is a DINO. (Yes, I campaigned and voted for Webb and I am furious at his and his fellow Dem jellyfish's disgraceful behavior.)
Peace @ 45:
What if the President refuses to agree to an invetigation?
Stop this "get a bill"-argumentto explore this. Send in the IG. Bypass the GOP.
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The Grand Obstructionist Party
A round of ExLax for all!
Just remember the nuclear option. Had that actually come to pass, the GOP would be completely impotent right now. Now that's irony. If the Dems had any stones, they would throw that in the GOP's face and push the whole filibuster/obstructionism issue into the spot light, but they won't because, again, Reid and Pelosi SUCK.
hanshiro @ 47:
Oh do explain......
what do ya mean he "voted" to condemn Moveon??
I know he failed to object to the cloture vote on his own legislation.
thats for sure.
LSUfan @ 40:
Alberto Gonzales? Is that really you?
navyswan @ 42:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7lRaSAynY8
LSUfan @ 35:
Then we don't start an unnecessary war that takes more than 1,000,000 troops. Live within our means, so to speak. A concept alien to Republicans.
Oh, and Geaux to Hell LSU!
[Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Nothing can change unless there are 60 votes in the senate.
The 110th GOP Senate in Congress are The Obstructionist's.
The majority of Democrats are NOT the ones obstructing justice and destroying our Country.
We are NOW seeing ALL the consequences and effects
of the 109th Congress when the GOP Controlled BOTH HOUSES.
Treasury and Pensions: Bankrupting under Bush, dangerous deficits,
Value of U.S Dollar and Savings: Bush destroying U.S. dollar, Middle Class and Economy, perpetual debt
Health Care and living Cost: Doubled, hitting dangerous levels
Jobs: Accelerated outsourcing, union busting, Poverty
Oil: Before Bush 32/barrel - Now: 82/barrel, still undisclosed: Cheneys Energy and Enron meetings
Public Airwaves under Bush: Accelerated illegal Propaganda and misinformation
Traitors and fascists that are destroying our Constitution and rights need to be imprisoned. They need to be stopped before they destroy our Country.
The 110th GOP Obstructionists:
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Voinovich (R-OH)
hanshiro @ 47:
He voted to condemn the MoveOn Ad? Did that idiotic shit pass?
Here is a link to the legislation if anyone wants to read it:
Text of the amendment as of Wednesday night, September 19, 2007.
(8) A recent attack through a full-page advertisement in the New York Times by the liberal activist group, Moveon.org, impugns the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces.
(2) to strongly condemn any effort to attack the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces; and
This makes me fume. These disgusting pigs dare say that criticizing Patraeus is attacking the whole of the military. Everyone that votes for this crap can go to hell.
Doesn't joining the military change an illegal immigrant's status to resident alien, pending citizenship if they survive their deployment?
kulshan @ 52:
"Reso Condemning MoveOn Passes Overwhelmingly, With Lots Of Dems
By Greg Sargent - September 20, 2007, 1:00PM
The GOP-introduced resolution condemning MoveOn just passed by a huge margin, 72-25. Roughly half the Democrats in the Senate supported it."
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/09/reso_condemning_moveon_passes_over...
There's a list of the Dems who voted for it: Dems voting for the reso: Baucus, Bayh, Cardin, Carper, Casey, Conrad, Dorgan, Feinstein, Johnson, Klobuchar, Kohl, Landrieu, Leahy, Lieberman, Lincoln, McCaskill, Mikulski, Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson, Pryor, Salazar, Tester, Webb. Webb & Lieberman agree! *huuurl*
ysbaddaden @ 59:
Yes, and it is disgusting to exploit people like that. Indentured servitude?
Curious @ 46:
Gotcha. I wanst missing the point. The original post made it sound like Dems actually could pass bills with methods that dont allow for a filibuster or veto. That was never my understanding, so I was thinking there was something I didnt know. Apparently not.
You guys have a point in regards to the spending. Other than that, this Dem congress and Senate are purely screwed, because they CAN be blocked on anything they try to do.
Additionally, I dont believe you are thinking straight regarding that spending issue. While its true the Dems could refuse to provide funds...if they did, this guy in the WH is a big enough prick to keep the troops there without funding and try to blame their inevitable suffering on the Dems.
I dont know if you guys remember, but when Clinton and Newt went at it over the budget, and the Repubs refused to give Clinton the budget, it was the REPUBS that suffered. I think, were Dems to withold funding, and the troops to then suffer, Bush would successfully pin that on Dems. Good chance of it anyway. Just my opinion though.
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The Smiths Go To Washington Says: Nothing can change unless there are 60 votes in the senate.
With all due respect SGTW, this is patently false and a skirt behind which the jellyfish Dems hide.
navyswan @ 58:
I assume they all did the same for the Swift Boat ads??
Impugning the integrity of a REAL decorated war veteran.
Petraeus never served in combat til his boss created an opportunity.
Why do Democrats hate Freedom of Speech?
they allowed the legislation to be introduced.
The 2001 red flag: When George Bush brought back all the same criminals and elite fascists from previous Republican Administrations to RUN our government AGAIN. And then throw in some undercover dual citizenship fascists to head think tanks, Homeland Security and whitewash commissions.
WHO through interconnected boards of directors, CEO's, rogue CIA elements, AIPAC....
ALL WHO OWN the majority of the US media and will smear anyone that tries to stand up to them.
Veterans, Soldiers and the American People now know WHO the real enemies are
and the greatest threat to U.S. National Security:
#1 George W. Bush ( daddy's little rogue CIA war criminal with family ties to bin ladin )
#2 Richard D. Cheney
#3 Turncoat Republicans
#4 Aligned corrupt media pundits.
kulshan @ 68:
I think the democrats tried to add an amendment that stated all attacks against all uniformed military should be condemned which included the Swiftboat ads. I think the repugs shot that down too.
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Strawberry @ 70:
The Hell u Say!!
Ya mean RepubliNazis have another double standard that Dems and the MSM wont point out??
Im shocked.
As long as the public consists of winners like LSUFan, there's no hope of them waking up and making a stink about anything.
hanshiro @ 29:
You sure can say that again. House Democrats have the power now to draft Articles of Impeachment, yet they do nothing. Here we have several Democrats being tagged for corruption. People who continually want to blame every problem on Bush, Cheney and the GOP are seriously out of touch with reality.
Clavis @ 74:
He is a troll and represent the EXTREME fascist, anit-constitution Right.
such a small percentage of the public share his views he has to troll the intranets in hopes of finding someone who will listen to his anti-american, anti-troops rhetoric.
LSUFan is typical of the Tigers' boorish fans, known as the rudest in all the SEC. Or maybe he's just pissy because the thugs on his team can't stay out of jail.
[Well he's gone now, so you all can carry on with real conversation-Hi LSUFan-see you've tried to post twice! :lol: It's just going nowhere-Sitemonitor]
Clavis @ 74:
On the 'upside,' he's a shoo-in for a job as Sherri Shepherd's assistant/history teacher.
Strawberry @ 70:
I think the democrats tried to add an amendment that stated all attacks against all uniformed military should be condemned which included the Swiftboat ads. I think the repugs shot that down too.
That's crap too. They should have just not let it on the floor for a vote. I believe the the repugs did this all the time. Or just NOT vote for the crap.
LISTEN, EVERYONE! You all have the right to criticize anyone in the military. It is part of a free society! My husband is an active duty officer in the military and I am completely fine with someone criticizing him and so is he. It should NEVER be condemned or against the law to criticize the military. You know who does that? Military Dictatorships.
Also, Patraeus does not represent the military as a whole. Fuck Patraeus and the GOP.
navyswan @ 79:
I think the democrats tried to add an amendment that stated all attacks against all uniformed military should be condemned which included the Swiftboat ads. I think the repugs shot that down too.
That's crap too. They should have just not let it on the floor for a vote. I believe the the repugs did this all the time. Or just NOT vote for the crap.
LISTEN, EVERYONE! You all have the right to criticize anyone in the military. It is part of a free society! My husband is an active duty officer in the military and I am completely fine with someone criticizing him and so is he. It should NEVER be condemned or against the law to criticize the military. You know who does that? Military Dictatorships.
Also, Patraeus does not represent the military as a whole. Fuck Patraeus and the GOP.
You're right Navyswan, but I think Democrats just wanted to expose the right's double standard. I think dailykos has a diary up about it.
Strawberry @ 80:
That's crap too. They should have just not let it on the floor for a vote. I believe the the repugs did this all the time. Or just NOT vote for the crap.
LISTEN, EVERYONE! You all have the right to criticize anyone in the military. It is part of a free society! My husband is an active duty officer in the military and I am completely fine with someone criticizing him and so is he. It should NEVER be condemned or against the law to criticize the military. You know who does that? Military Dictatorships.
Also, Patraeus does not represent the military as a whole. Fuck Patraeus and the GOP.
You're right Navyswan, but I think Democrats just wanted to expose the right's double standard. I think dailykos has a diary up about it.
But why did 25 of them vote for it as is? They make me sick. They just sent a bi-partisan message to the American people that it is not ok to criticize the war by not being able to criticize political puppets like Patraeus.
MrMtyzptlk @ 13:
*Grumbles* This sort of misinformation pisses me off. Fucking newspapers.
To pass a bill you need 51 votes... There's only 100 people in the damned senate... if you needed 60 votes normally you'd never get ANYTHING passed.
You need 60 votes to break a filibuster.
You need 66 votes to override a veto.
Fucking Media at all levels needs to step up and report facts, not delusions... and the damned Democrats need to step up and be leaders not fucking sheep.
Call 'em up and chew 'em the hell out!
At least it's heartening to see the Senate taking care of important business like condemning political speech they don't approve of. The founders are rolling in their graves.
But why did 25 of them vote for it as is? They make me sick. They just sent a bi-partisan message to the American people that it is not ok to criticize the war by not being able to criticize political puppets like Patraeus.
Something messed up with the last post.
navyswan @ 81:
You're right Navyswan, but I think Democrats just wanted to expose the right's double standard. I think dailykos has a diary up about it.
But why did 25 of them vote for it as is? They make me sick. They just sent a bi-partisan message to the American people that it is not ok to criticize the war by not being able to criticize political puppets like Patraeus.
Ironically, many, many comments about this (here: http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/09/reso_condemning_moveon_passes_over...)
..say that any Dem contributions will now go to Moveon. Priceless.
Fucking John Warner. The guy is such a flip-flopping bitch it isn't funny. Speaks tough and then doesn't vote with the Dems!!!!!!!!
its great aint it ?kind of like a boxing match ,a proze fight , and our dems get paids to throw the fight! pssst rocky go down in the second round , wink wink!
prize
hanshiro @ 67:
Good point. It's especially troubling to watch as both parties play politics with the lives our troops and our national security. Forget the "complicit media" conspiracies, etc., the underlying issue for a long time has been "leaders" in D.C. who blindly follow public opinion because they are more interested in maintaining their own rather tenuous grip on power than doing what's right for the people of this country.
The American people and the Soldiers are waiting for GOP Obstructionalists
to COMPLY with or EVEN SHOW UP to testify.
Congressional subpoenas issued and hearings under the Democrats.
House Judiciary
Attorney Firings Justice Dept. papers, Emails
--> Not complied with.
House Oversight and Government Reform
Niger Forgeries Testimony of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
--> Rice publicly refused to comply with claiming she was "not inclined" to testify.
House Oversight and Government Reform
White House violations of Pres. Records Act and Hatch Act Testimony of RNC Chairman Mike Duncan, and related documents
House Judiciary
Ground Zero air pollution Testimony of former EPA Administrator Christy Whitman
House Oversight
Wiretapping
House Judiciary
U.S. Attorney Firings Testimony of former White House Counsel Harriet Miers and documents 7/12/07 6/28 White House Counsel Fred Fielding refusing to comply claiming executive privilege.
Senate Judiciary
U.S. Attorney Firings Testimony of White House Political Director Sara Taylor
White House wrote to Leahy refusing to comply claiming executive privilege.
Senate Judiciary
Wiretapping Legal analysis and other documents concerning the NSA warrantless wiretapping program from White House, Dick Cheney, DOJ, and NSC. White House spokesman Tony Snow called the subpoenas "outrageous"
House Oversight and Government Reform
Pat Tillman murder coverup Lt. General Kensinger
U.S. Marshals can't find him to serve subpoena
but i could ov been a contender!!!yah yah shut up heres a steak for that eye!
I heard the Senate is now going to tase MoveOn.
tyree @ 88:
Actually Tyree, I thought you'd misspelled "prose," because all Reid and Pelosi do is trot out the fightin' words, then bend over.....
hanshiro @ 93:
sorry even i can spell proze ,dont know how i hit the o
jesus prize
This is not just the media. This is the Democrats who make vague pronouncements like "we don't have the votes" on talk shows rather than beating the drum over and over that Republicans are being obstructionists. The media picks up whatever narrative has already been set. It is the politicians themselves, and their allies, that create the narrative in the first place.
The Democrats are about as good at messaging as a blind mime in an empty theater.
hit the io key at same tome , big finger
i give up
Eric Jaffa @ 3:
That's true; however today's vote(censoring MoveOn) was "The Senate" inasmuch as 25
Dems crossed the aisle and voted approving the Cornyn amendment...buch of lap dogs
and cowards. It is even more evident now that "our" Congress(Senate and House)are
weasles and cowards and bullshitter's, for they most certainly do NOT speak for "We
the People". All, and I do mean ALL, need to be tossed out of office..or at least those
coming up for re-election in Nov. 08.
the entire gop should be sent to gitmo for life and forgotten.
the gop did not learn the lessons taught in germany under hitler.
we should teach them by using their own tactics, it's karma.
The real issue in D.C. is that neither party will make a decision which is seen in the short-term as being politically unpopular. All these committee hearings, subpoenas being issued/ignored, etc. is just a bunch of political grandstanding which makes extreme partisans on both sides feel good, while the vast majority of Americans can see it for the distraction it truly is. What's happening now is not unlike the Clinton Administration facing off against a hostile, politically-motivated Republican Congress.
oh this just came in yesterday... But Not ONE mention on FOX or the E! Cable News...
A U.S. congressman ( Democrat Waxman)
...has opened an investigation into the actions of a top U.S. State Department official [Inspector General Howard Krongard] accused of blocking investigations into government fraud and abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://pogoblog.typepad.com/pogo/2007/09/what-a-tangled-.html
WHO controls the U.S. media? - interconnected boards of directors, defense CEO’s, rogue CIA elements..
WHO will smear anyone that tries to stand up to them.
We all tried to warn everyone when George Bush brought back all the same criminals and elite fascists from previous Republican Administrations to RUN our government AGAIN. And then throw in some undercover dual citizenship fascists to head think tanks, Homeland Security and whitewash commissions.
Here we are.
Curious @ 6:
The DNC is the Democratic National Committee. It's in charge of campaigns, PR, fund raising and the like. It is not involved in legislation. I think you mean the Democratic Party.
Moreover, the Republicans' power is not illusory. The filibuster is real -- and it's a good thing. Historically, the filibuster has provided a means for the minority to be heard when it has no other way. Sure, it has been used for pernicious ends in the past, as it is here, but the Republicans + Lieberman = half the Senate at the moment.
Pass bills without a conference committee? Unless the House and Senate pass exactly the same bill, word for word, conference committees are necessary. Under the Constitution, no bill can become a law unless it has approval of both the House and the Senate. It has to be the same bill, verbatim.
You mean that the chairs of the various committees within the House and the Senate could pass bills without allowing the Republicans to register their opposition? (I don't know what you mean, actually -- your understanding of governmental procedure and nomenclature is curiously bad, Curious.) What possible good would it do? Once the bills got to the floor, the Republicans would still filibuster them.
Actually, they could simply refuse to pass a funding bill, rather than pass a bill to end the funding. And it would only take the House to refuse.
I still maintain that the Democrats in the Senate ought to force the Republicans to engage in genuine filibusters. This "gentlemen's filibuster" is disgusting, and does not receive the proper coverage in the press. But, the right wing has a megaphone they've been working on for decades. Even when Reid did force a quasi-filibuster for 24 hours, the press accused him of holding a filibuster.
The Democrats are terrible when it comes to playing politics, seem to have no idea how to work the press, and are not doing everything they could be doing. Nevertheless, your words don't make very much sense, and display a lack of understanding of governmental operations.
SO, FILIBUSTER. CALL THEIR BLUFF!
Seriously. The Dems are cowards. If they wanted to end the war and restore habeus corpus and all that good stuff, they would FORCE the republicans to filibuster. And not just for one night. For weeks. Months. Years if necessary. Bring the gov't to a standstill. SHAME them into change.
But the Dems won't do it, because they are a bunch of lazy gutless cowards constantly triangulating their next move.
By the way, isn't it nice and sweet and refreshing that MoveOn's ad in the NYT's can
be censored(my term) by the U.S. Senate for it's critisism of Gen. P. in his testimony
whereas the Republican ads, doing much, much worse, are found to be "acceptable"?
That is, the attempts by Boxer and other Dems to have an amendment being critical
of the Swiftboating of Sen. Kerry and the lies used by the Republicans in their attacks
on Cleland(sp) were found o.k. I just do not understand how "our" supposed representative
on the Hill think....which is probably the case, "they don't think" and most certainly are
NOT listening to the majority.
LSUfan @ 65:
Your post was deleted, unfortunately, but I may remind you that Germany declared war on the USA, not the other way around. As usualy, conservatives are unbelieveably ignorant.
Condoleeza Rice also was not aware of this fact, indicating some time ago that the USA was first to declare war on Germany. Stupid.
[Facts don't matter to posters like him. He's just here to stir it, sit back and point-n-laugh at the result, and emaill all his 8th grade pals he picked up on myspace about his latest prank-Sitemonitor]
tyree @ 94:
Funny, I thought it was Prozak.
This is ALL bullshit, the 2 parties are playing "good cop/bad cop" because they're ALL in on it. They don't give a rat's ass about the people, they just want to prolong having their snouts in the trough and their wallets filled...
They should all pack up their briefcases and go home and stay there, they're not doing ANYTHING for "we the people"!
Diplomats' Labor Union Calls for State Department Auditor to Step Down
Phyltress @ 108:
But,but, but..."We cannot go home yet because we(Dems) have more investigative hearings
scheduled and testimony to be given...and then we'll do nothing and then we can go home.
And also, we have to write a few more strong, stern, threatening letters...and then make
a speech or two about how we are doing the people's work...Let's see, what am I forgetting?
Oh yes, and we support the troops...We have a tough job and are working hard."...
Wow, maybe it would've been wise to have actually called the Republicans' bluff back during the Supreme Court nomination process, and allowed them actually pull that nuclear option, huh?
Oh well... at least we've got dry powder!
The Democratic Party's establishment does not want to win. There is *never* an excuse for folding in these political fights. It's *never* a good "strategic" move. Never. This is a perfect example of why.
Curious @ 38:
Sorry. I disagree. The Constitution puts the responsibility in the hands of the people. The people are sitting on their hands. They are not DEMANDING action. Polls mean SHIT today. Dems, Repubs...don't care. As long as there are no people in the street...neither party is doing SHIT...except playing politics.
This SHIT is not tolerated in Europe. The public gets pissed off they ACT. They are not afraid to get water cannoned, they are not afraid to get gassed by their own government. We are a country of sheep.
The Democrats Obstructed Themselves.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/20/83313/0324
I want to know why the hell Harry Reid is not forcing the Repugs to actually conduct their filibusters? Instead, he is basically agreeing to change the rules from "51% passes a law" to "60% passes a law", without forcing the Repugs to earn that 60% - it's free!
Thanks again, Harry. You're doing a heckuva job. /sarcasm
Webb will find it hard to legislate noe with Warner's knife in his back.
And for those who think we should support our military blindly, I give you Oliver North, the traitor of Iran/ Contra.
I mean NOW.
Jeez, Tyree, you're contagious.
Because I live abroad, I don't have access to all the news that most of you get on a daily basis. To understand what is really going on in any country, you have to be as connected to the people as the proverbial "man in the street". But what I do sense is that there simply aren't enough people who are taking the threat that the U.S. government poses all over the world and particularly in the U.S.
I hope that the discussions that we have in this blog and other blogs are also taking place at work, amongst your family members (especially your children), and anywhere else that you happen to go. The government is watching you now very closely and the Constitution was created to allow the people to watch the government. Most of that has been ammended or simply abolished to the point that it no longer reads as it originally did.
The discussions that are happening with all of my expat friends from all over the world here in Japan basically comes down to the fact that America is no longer free. Everyone wonders when this will culminate in a full-scale coup. When Germany started their campaigns to take over Europe in WWII, their reasons did not appear much different than why the U.S. is in the Middle East now. In WWII, Hitler turned most Germans and many people in other parts of the world against the Jews. This time around, it is the Arabs. Everyone talks about the Muslim radicals or Muslim terrorists but this is simply a veil to the truth that the war is with the Arab people. They have the oil after all.
The world is wondering when the people in the U.S. will stop allowing these things to happen. It is up to the American people now, the U.S. government is not going to change unless you make them change. I know that many of you are already trying to make changes and to get your voice heard in the government. But they aren't listening to you and certainly don't care about what a retired military veteran living abroad has to say. It is amazing to me that so many of the changes, habeus, war zone deployment limits, etc., are unable to achieve enough votes to prevent a filibuster! Makes me wonder if the Democrats in government know something that we little people don't. Could it be because they already know it is too late?
The government is watching and the Constitution is in tatters. Restoring it won't be easy but it must be done.
The GOP says, "Jump Boys. Die Boys".
The GOP says, "Kiss my ass".
As far as I'm concerned every law passed has a net negative effect on average citizens. I'd be pleased if they never passed any laws ever again.
Curious @ 6:
DNC has majority, but not plurality. The DNC could never "zero-out" the funds with out 66 senate votes. I believe there are only 49 Dem Senators, atm. For the same reason, DNC can not pass a bill with a firm end date.
9th grade civics class ftw.
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